2010 was certain quite a year for the mega church pastors finding creating ways to convince people to fork over more and more of their money. We chronicled quite a few - Robert Jeffress, Mac Brunson, Steve Gaines, Ed Young, even Perry Noble (although Perry calling church attenders "spiritual whores (hos)" took the cake.)So I thought in honor of these men's efforts to do God's will and raise revenue at their respective churches, we would do a 2010 remix of the popular poem I posted last year called "Twas the Sunday Before Christmas". Hope you enjoy!
'Twas the Sunday before Christmas
and all through God's church
"Not a churchman is tithing!"
Yelled the preacher from his perch.
The mega church preacher
climbed up into his place
Said our tithe to his church,
Was required for grace.
He had a broad face,
and a little round belly,
That shook when he yelled,
Like a bowlful of jelly.
He pulled off his glasses
and gave a jerk of his head,
Soon gave me to know
I had something to dread;
He spoke not from the Word,
and went straight to his work,
Began to tell the non-tither,
how he was a jerk.
He was dressed all in finery,
Even cufflinks of gold,
He took out his Bible
and Yelled to the fold:
"Now please get out your bibles,
You stupid sheep,
You're holding your tithe back,
You're being way too cheap,
"You owe me and God
Ten - not nine, not eight,
And we'll spend it as we please,
You dare not designate."
We thought from our Bibles,
He would be sure to show,
How point-one times the gross,
is the exact amount we owe.
But ne'er did he exegete
This demand placed on us,
He just told us to fork it over,
No need to discuss.
He said if we didn't agree,
To "Take it up wit da book",
But he didn't tell me where,
I should start to look.
The preacher said "no wonder your kids are so bad",
"But what do you expect,
When they have to live
with a non-tithing mom and dad!
I was ready for more abuse,
It was not stopping there,
So I loosened my tie,
At my shoes I did stare.
"You're driving stolen cars,
America's in the tank"
All because you're hoarding
Your tithe in your bank."
"Your greed has caused God,
To put our nation under a curse,
So be a good American,
And get the tithe check out of your purse."
"If you really loved Jesus,
You'd fill out this card,
For autowithdrawl,
It would make tithing less hard."
I wondered, where in the Bible,
Can I find this stuff,
I've read my Bible,
but apparently not close enough.
"If you really loved Jesus,
You'd fill out this card,
For autowithdrawl,
It would make tithing less hard."
I wondered, where in the Bible,
Can I find this stuff,
I've read my Bible,
but apparently not close enough.
Could it be in the KJV,
or the NIV, or perhaps NASB,
No, none of those,
It must be in the Greek, you see.
He said: "You do want to get close,
to Jesus this New Year,
So lop off a chunck of your assets
For our fountain and building right here."
"Divide your income by 10,
And write a check for that amount,
Else on our Naughty List you will go,
Your name inscribed on our fount.
"Be afraid, because
God will take what you owe,
His heavenly IRS,
Will not take an answer of "No"
"When you have crashing cars,
And the dreaded leaking roof,
You will know you should have tithed,
That will be your proof."
So the plates were all passed
down each row with great care,
In hopes that the peeps
Would put their 10% there.
Mama in her new dress,
and me in my tie,
I saw that plate coming,
With a tear in my eye.
I took out my envelope,
With my measely 9 percent
Knowing I was "sinning",
But had just paid my rent.
Here came the plate,
I put my envelope upside down,
Tried to fake a tithing smile,
But wore a 9 percent frown.
Off Deacons, Off Trustees!
please count all the dough
See if there is enough,
For new carpet and pews for each row.
The white-haired man to my left
held on to his wallet
His trip to church today
He was sure to regret.
"I didn't know it", whispered, the old man
With sweat on his brow,
Then the preacher yelled,
"HA, well you sure know it NOW."
I told the old man,
After the show,
"Don't worry its not what you give,
But rather it's Who you know."
The message this Christmas, sir,
is God sent his Son,
He's after our hearts first,
Not a wallet, not one."
"Baby Jesus came into the world,
to show us the way,
Not to tell us what percent
to the pastor we must pay."
The old man grinned,
and nodded his head with a smile,
"I knew that,
I'll see you all in a little while."
"See, at Christmas time,
I've blessed kids with gifts each year,
And not once did I demand,
A tithe in exchange for my cheer."
"I find it quite odd,
These men demand cash as they do,
When God gives His love freely,
To me and to you."
But I heard him exclaim,
'Ere he drove out of sight,
"Happy Christmas to all,
And to all a good-night."
He said: "You do want to get close,
to Jesus this New Year,
So lop off a chunck of your assets
For our fountain and building right here."
"Divide your income by 10,
And write a check for that amount,
Else on our Naughty List you will go,
Your name inscribed on our fount.
"Be afraid, because
God will take what you owe,
His heavenly IRS,
Will not take an answer of "No"
"When you have crashing cars,
And the dreaded leaking roof,
You will know you should have tithed,
That will be your proof."
So the plates were all passed
down each row with great care,
In hopes that the peeps
Would put their 10% there.
Mama in her new dress,
and me in my tie,
I saw that plate coming,
With a tear in my eye.
I took out my envelope,
With my measely 9 percent
Knowing I was "sinning",
But had just paid my rent.
Here came the plate,
I put my envelope upside down,
Tried to fake a tithing smile,
But wore a 9 percent frown.
Off Deacons, Off Trustees!
please count all the dough
See if there is enough,
For new carpet and pews for each row.
The white-haired man to my left
held on to his wallet
His trip to church today
He was sure to regret.
"I didn't know it", whispered, the old man
With sweat on his brow,
Then the preacher yelled,
"HA, well you sure know it NOW."
I told the old man,
After the show,
"Don't worry its not what you give,
But rather it's Who you know."
The message this Christmas, sir,
is God sent his Son,
He's after our hearts first,
Not a wallet, not one."
"Baby Jesus came into the world,
to show us the way,
Not to tell us what percent
to the pastor we must pay."
The old man grinned,
and nodded his head with a smile,
"I knew that,
I'll see you all in a little while."
"See, at Christmas time,
I've blessed kids with gifts each year,
And not once did I demand,
A tithe in exchange for my cheer."
"I find it quite odd,
These men demand cash as they do,
When God gives His love freely,
To me and to you."
But I heard him exclaim,
'Ere he drove out of sight,
"Happy Christmas to all,
And to all a good-night."
62 comments:
so...I am a spirutual Miscreant if I give less than the tenth, or a pew lemming if I give in accordance to the storehouse teachings? I think that you are about as out of touch as some of those that you rant of. (in my opinion)
Anon - "pew lemming"? Where did that come from? As I have said many times, people should give out of their love for Christ, as moved by the holy spirit. If that is 10% for you or 5%, or 20%, that is wonderful. My issue is not with people giving too much or too little, it is with non-biblical, even abusive preachers who misuse scripture to guilt people into giving.
Ha Ha, nicely done WD. Good for a laugh.
But a sad one none the less.
Twas the Sunday before Christmas...and even the birth of a Savior...one who came to bear all of our sins....and WD still can't forgive at the same level he has been forgiven.
Jesus humbled Himself and became flesh and then was crucified for our sin. You have sough HIS forgiveness, Yet you still hold a grudge, or a vendetta against a few. They are probably wrong but you are not the one to judge.
God is the only judge, or do you not think He is capable? Are you doing Him a favor by this blog?
You won't publish this, but that's ok because I wrote it just for you.
Merry Christmas, Kenneth! Lighten up, smile, and have a laugh.
Classless.
I agree, Anon. Many of the antics of 2010 which are parodied here were indeed classless. Thanks for pointing that out.
:)
What constitutes “passing judgment?”
Great job on the poem. There's also a lot of talent at Stuff Fundies Like. Lots have rewritten Christmas carols. Hilarious!
"....and WD still can't forgive at the same level he has been forgiven."
Kenny, Kenny, Kenny. You slam WD about forgiveness, but what about Mac forgiving WD for his heinous sin of asking some questions?
What about Big Mac, the paid professional and exalted leader actually manning up, taking the high road and calling this whole law suit thing a mistake and apologize for what his crew did to WD. How 'bout it? I thought him as a sin cursed person like me as well. So, he is capable of sin and mistakes. Right?
Judgement: We are to judge Kenneth. We judge actions for certain, now the motive of the heart, we cannot judge.
Speed through a school zone and you get some quick judgement.
How are we to judge Mac's actions? Let's be straight and hones about it.
He performed as a bully, and seems to be making the house of prayer and place for money exchange. Read sales and selling stuff, plus gettinig sweet land deals for his home when his book says no to such things.
Is one being judgemental when they merely question such things? But that goes back to the kool-aid thing, pew sitting sheep that snort their approvals of anything said in a pulpit. We gotta stop following megas like they have some special power or exalted status.
Brother Paul is such a great example of humility and dedication, with sooooo much passion for people and the gospel.
His kind are so few today, usually swept aside for the celebrity types, with fluffly titles and pedigrees.
"Classless."
Ah, a personal attack. Well, it's not like he could take the opposing view using scripture.
I guess that was the only option available.
Anon 11:52
1. My name isn't Kenny
2. All of what you said sounds good from a worldly perspective. Too bad it's not very scriptural.
3. I've been very consistent in my comments that Mac is probably just as wrong as WD.
4. If you don't like a church, don't go to it anymore. Pretty simple concept.
5. Paul was humble but he had people back in his day that gave him a hard time too, he called a few of them out for it. Interesting.
6. Merry Christmas. And as you think of our Savior and His ministry and His death, burial, and resurrection. He is the only One righteous,the only One who can judge. If there were a WatchDog. It is Him and not the one on this blog.
“4. If you don't like a church, don't go to it anymore. Pretty simple concept.”
Wish it were. I have not attended my former mega for over four years and the people I work with still do not understand I am not a member of that church anymore. Moreover, as vocal as I am here I am even more so at work! Every time the present preacher says or does something else stupid someone I work with asks me why “your pastor” did thus and such. It is truly bizarre! I left September 24, 2006, but I still cannot get away. The stink follows me and I am not a part of it anymore.
Merry Christmas to all.
This sermon to me encapsulates what being a Christian means and the peace that comes being a Christian:
Emmanuel - Enid [Wade Burleson] [2002-2004] > Series on "Romans: The Integrity of God" > #25. A Gift that Keeps on Giving (Romans 5:1-2)
Kenneth said...
Anon 11:52
2. All of what you said sounds good from a worldly perspective. Too bad it's not very scriptural.
Kenmeth, just a few examples of the scriptural mandates to exercise judgement.
FEW examples of His desire for us to judge,
1Cor. 6:2-3 Do you not know that the saints [the saved; Christians] will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
Prov. 3:21 My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight;
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Jer. 22:3 Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness...
Phil. 1:10 so that you may be able to discern [judge] what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ...
Phil. 1:7 It is right for me to feel this way about all of you [judge you]...
Then Kenmeth said:
4. If you don't like a church, don't go to it anymore. Pretty simple concept.
Nope, it's my fellowship and HIS church. I aint running off.
Kenmeth also said:
5. Paul was humble but he had people back in his day that gave him a hard time too, he called a few of them out for it. Interesting.
Oh yeah, really interesting at this point. Thats what WD and other bloggers have done and received bountiful flak for it.
And finally, he proclaims:
6. Merry Christmas. And as you think of our Savior and His ministry and His death, burial, and resurrection. He is the only One righteous,the only One who can judge. If there were a WatchDog. It is Him and not the one on this blog.
No disputing your statement, except for the last two sentences seem, well, judgemental.
.......an' I'm out.
I'm tired...
Tired of Hypocrites
Tired of the Religious Games
Tired of the Blog Pirates hijacking my church
Tired of my Pastor being slung thru the mud over incidentals
Tired of people (you know who you are) making fun of Mac and wanting him to fail.
Tired of the Rumors
Tired of this Blog....I had someone tell me this Blog was shutting down Jan. 1st. Is that true?
God answers prayers!!!!!
Kenny, One warns about wolves. And one an do that even after forgiving them their evil.
You equate forgiveness as not needing repentance for the evil. Great religion...but it is not salvic. Brunson and co. have not changed.
WD's forgiveness will not do a thing for Brunson. It is between him and God.
However, WD has a duty to warn of wolves in sheeps clothing. Because there are a lot of people out there like you following them instead of Christ.
"Classless.
December 20, 2010 9:42 PM"
Riiiiggghhhttt....and looting the church for all its worth is downright classy.
Nice work anon!
word verfication: liedom. funny cause this is where these "pastors" operate.
Anon 3:22 - if you are tired of this blog, please stop reading it.
I am curious though, how does a "blog pirate" go about hijacking a church? Could you explain that?
As far as Jan 1st - I don't think so. That sure is news to me.
Anon.
did you just google " judgement" and those verses come up? Phil. 1:7 in the Greek doesn't give the idea of judgement. At least not according to Strongs. And you might need to look at the whole passage and not just google a word.
My name isn't Kenmeth either.
Wish I had known:
If somebody asks you a question, you don't always have to answer. You are not responsible for that church or any Pastors actions. Though he will have to give an account for his life and for you.
"As far as Jan 1st - I don't think so. That sure is news to me."
Hmm... this would be a Christmas miracle in and of itself, would it not? Sooner or later, you too will be required to demonstrate the same transparency you want these "mega church" pastors to demonstrate. That is, unless you think it is okay not to practice what you preach, in which case, that would defeat what I assume is the purpose of this blog.
"Tired of this Blog....I had someone tell me this Blog was shutting down Jan. 1st. Is that true?"
Evidently, this anon cannot help themselves from coming here and reading.
While I don't have as much time as you to craft my poems, here's one for your collection-
'Twas the week before Christmas
and all through the city
"I’ll get those pastors!”
Yelled the Watchdog thinking he is witty.
The mega church blogger
slithered into his chair
Sitting back he began to type
about that House of Prayer.
He has blogged for a good while,
and thinks that he is selling the truth,
If someone was to blog about him,
it would send him through the roof.
He is always critical of the pastor
of the big Jacksonville church,
You look for a place to pray
instead you find him through a web search;
He speaks not from the Word,
and often manipulates the facts,
It is with the pages of this blog ,
from the message of Christianity he detracts.
He was dressed in a cloak,
Hiding deep in the dark,
On his next post,
he went after the one he despises the most:
"That pastor has a house,
in a gated community,
I can bad mouth him with this blog,
and know that I have great impunity.”
"He doesn’t run that church,
the way that he should,
I’d show him how to do it,
if only I could.”
A personal vendetta he appears to have,
on this blog he shares nothing good,
he sued the city and sued the church,
his end goal has yet to be understood.
He thinks the members of that place
follow the pastor like sheep,
How many souls for Christ has
the Watchdog ever tried to reap?
He could use this blog,
to spread the Word of God,
instead anyone lost who finds it,
will find Christianity to be quite odd.
Even at this holy time of the year,
he makes no effort to settle down,
he sits and crafts his latest post,
hoping it will be the talk of the town.
He puts down the pastor,
and keeps going and going,
yet it is the membership of the church,
instead of this blog that is growing.
The Watchdog has been here long enough,
perhaps he will soon become bored,
we can only hope that he will use his time
to spend a moment honoring the Lord.
I’m sure the blogger will dislike my poem,
and his followers will dislike it even more,
we each have the right to the freedom of speech,
even if we decide not to practice what we preach.
Gee, Kenneth, it must be nice to be so oblivious to others’ pain and suffering. I am very much aware there are very many questions I cannot answer; it is the hysterical crying and seeing my coworkers visibly hurt that bothers me.
Why would the Dog need to be transparent? He’s not the one misusing scripture for his own selfish self interests. He’s not the one beating up or fleecing the sheep.
Anon 10:06,
Pretty good poem you did. And kudo's to WD for posting it. It takes someone who tries to be fair-minded and brave to post criticisms of themselves.
But since becoming agnostic, I've done a lot of reading and have learned a little about logic. I've noticed sometimes when I want to discuss an issue or idea, the other side wants to ignore all that and tell me how lousy the person is who is voicing an idea. I think that's called ad hominem.
I think it's on a higher plain (plane?) to stick with the issues themselves. We all know that any of us humans can be nasty,etc.
Lynn - I agree about the ad hominem of the poem about me. What is so humorous about it is the person in the poem says I am distorting facts - yet the poem is full of assumptions and false statements about me! But that is ok, I understand.
My poem really is poking fun of a serious issue, and that is pastors who are misusing the bible (in my opinion!) to raise revenue for their mega church. I have chronicled these throughout the entire year. They included Jeffress' telling his church members that if they want to get closer to Jesus, one way would be to cut off a big chunk of their assets and give it to the building program. That is not a stretch or mischaracterization - he said it, and I have the video up.
It includes Brunson telling people that our economic plight is a direct result of God's judgement on our country to punish us for so many non-tithing Christians, and telling people that if they don't tithe, "God collects" - and he will get the money anyways from roof leaks, car crashes, etc. He said it, it is wrong, and I blogged about it and am poking fun at it in my poem.
Also, Ed Young and his October tithing meltdown...also included in the poem. Even Steve Gaines, and his ridiculous assertion that people who don't tithe to his church are living in stolen homes, driving stolen cars, and sending their kids to school using stolen money. All ridiculous, false, misuses of bible to intimidate and frighten people to fork over more money.
But the author of this poem about me does use ad hominem - I am "slithering" in my chair (like a snake, I assume), assumes I would "go through the roof" if someone blogged about me (which many people have, and I still haven't gone through the roof, I laugh mostly, sometimes shake my head), that I manipulate facts (not sure which facts), dressed in a cloak, hiding deep in the dark (truth is I was never hiding deep in the dark - even at the beginning of my blog - and now my name is readily available - no hiding at all), he assumes I am not interested in souls, assumes I don't spend any time honoring the Lord, etc. Those are all false. The writer of the poem would like to think those things are true, because I believe it helps them disregard the issues on my blog that challenge their faith. It is much easier to make a villain of the writer than deal with what is being written.
Their poem about me, really says more about them than me.
And, ironically, who really is "hiding deep in the dark"? Me or the anonymous author of the poem?
Merry Christmas, Lynn, and also to you, Anon poem writer. Thanks for at least taking the time to write a poem about me, as wrong as it is.
"because I believe it helps them disregard the issues on my blog that challenge their faith."
Is that what the purpose of this blog is? To challenge those of us who identify ourselves as Southern Baptists, or is it Baptists, or Christians in general? You fire back to critics with statements such as "And, ironically, who really is "hiding deep in the dark"? Me or the anonymous author of the poem?"
Well, I suppose it would be fair to state that you WERE hiding deep in the dark. However, seems unfair of the Watchdog, who sued over the loss of his right to anonymous free speech, to fault anyone else who chooses to use that right that you so righteously "fought" for.
Time to attack those of us who believe that Dr. Brunson is a good man. Time to keep criticizing our beliefs, our faith and our views. It is interesting how defensive you get when YOU are criticized with false assumptions and statements... now you see how it feels to be those who you make such statements about each time you post one of these blog entries.
Merry CHRISTmas to you Watchdog.
Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas even to those who want to hurt our Church.
Merry Christmas to those intent on destroying the image of our Pastor
Merry Christmas to the ones that cast stones and throw mud at God's annointed Leaders.
Merry Christmas to individuals that seek harm and seek to gossip
Merry Christmas and our prayers are that you will have repentance and sorrow over the harm you are causing.
Merry Christmas...we love you!
I assume you are addressing that to the likes of, me.
You are wrong on all counts, assumptions are wrong, but I do understand why you feel that way.
Thank you for the Merry Christmas, and same to you and yours.
Anonymouse at December 22, 2010 3:22 PM profounded as follows:
"Tired of the Blog Pirates hijacking my church'
Just because someone points out serious issues, that is called hijacking? I see the reverse being true, we have mega's jacking the church with their grand schemes for buildings and entertainment palaces, a little scripture and some really jacked up music.
"Tired of my Pastor being slung thru the mud over incidentals."
The Stalinist style of going after those who question a leader is not some mere incidental thing. Trashing the 1st amendment, abusing police powers ain't no small thing. Liberals will look the other way, when it suits them. Mac and others of his ilk bring mud upon themselves with their actions. Ed Young Jr, Ed Gaines, and others reap what they sow cupcake.
"Tired of people (you know who you are) making fun of Mac and wanting him to fail."
Mac was my pastor here in Dallas, I kinda know the guy as pastor. Any so called failings that occur will be from his lack of perspectiive. That is, to see his mission as pasotor, unobscured by a lot acclaim, sweet land deals and the SBC political empire that ruins a lot of good guys.
You, Kenmeth and other Anons. spout these pious and sanctimonious cries, yet you deny the real facts of the two lawsuits.
And the Anon. defending his 'Anointted Leader'. I suppose Mac is just as anointed as Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar or the guy with his own air force, Kenny Copeland.
If that's what you mean by anointed-ness.
Stop the man-worship and stop exalting some person far and above their actual office.
Garlando
"Merry Christmas...we love you!
December 23, 2010 12:42 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Great Counter Attack:
What mockery saying "we love you" . . .Brunson and and people like you are the type that has caused former members like ourselves to leave FBCJ.
Brunson prances up and down the pulpit talking about love & compassion is a disgrace of a testimony - his love is about money & power in the SBC fellowship & he's used FBCJ as his diving board.
This blog has caused no harm - it has helped heal the hearts of many people.
We love you? Don't think so but thanks for sharing your thoughts as you only confirmed how people at FBCJ really express their love . . .
Anon 3:18 - thanks for your post. It is a strange way to say "I love you"....it doesn't seem genuine, almost mocking, how sad.
Merry Christmas to the ones that cast stones and throw mud at God's annointed Leaders.
December 23, 2010 12:42 PM
What makes a person God's anointed leader? A title? A pulpit? Can you give us a crash course in what makes someone God's "anointed" leader.
(Never mind that 1 John says all believers have "anointing". I would not want to confuse your doctrine with scripture)
We need to take a look at not only this blog, but ourselves at this time of the year. Are we actually living lives that those of us who profess to be Christians can say are a testament to Jesus? Regardless of the tithe, or any of its truth/fallacy, are we individually following the Word of God? I'd hope that we all, myself included, take pause to reflect upon our own spiritual health, setting aside what goes on downtown, and focus on ourselves, and our families instead.
Here is the message from MY Pastor:
"It's been a tough year in many ways. I would love to think we are "out of the woods" economically - but only time will tell. HOWEVER, in the "economy" that really matters, we are RICH in Christ - and it is all because of Christmas. The Point of Christmas is GRACE!"
Merry Christmas to you and yours Tom. You've made a difference and it has helped many of us.
I look forward to praying for you as these serious issues begin to be resolved. Romans 8:28-39
Katie
Peace on Earth Good will towards men.
Yeah right!
My Pastor has been hurt this year. His heart is broken over one of his sheep going astray.
Lets stop all this nonsense and cease and desist this Blog!
It's time to make peace.
It's time for some goodwill.
ITS TIME TO GROW UP!!!!!!
“..to those who want to hurt our Church.”
Weird since you and ones like you are dividing churches all across America.
“..to those intent on destroying the image of our Pastor”
He is doing a fine of job of that all by himself.
“..to the ones that cast stones and throw mud at God's anointed Leaders.” (spelling corrected)
Casting stones, is that not what the preacher does from the pulpit when anyone dares question him? As far as God anointing leaders, has anyone ever witnessed God anoint a leader? I know I have not.
“..you will have repentance and sorrow over the harm you are causing.”
Exactly! Why do you not open your eyes and see the harm that you and others like you are causing. Heart ache, sorrow and division are happening all across America as a result of this revisionist preaching from wealthy preacher.
“My Pastor has been hurt this year. His heart is broken over one of his sheep going astray.”
What about the thousands of broken hearts that he has caused for no other reason than to strengthen his grip on the church he supposedly leads. Why can you not see he is using these controversies to create loyalty to himself?
“It's time to make peace.”
That is right so why does your pastor not work for the peace you ask for. Either party is just as free as the other to work for the “peace” you demand! Did you ever think your preacher actually seek this kind of controversy? Your preacher does not want “peace.” Your preacher actually wants this so that he can strengthen his position by reinforce loyalty to himself. It amazes me how it always about the preacher with you people and never ever about the thousands of your brothers and sisters who have had their hearts broken by this man!
“ITS TIME TO GROW UP!!!!!!”
True, so why do you not? Why do you have to have a man to tell you what to think and do? Why do you so vehemently support a man who is becoming very wealthy by virtue of his position?
"My Pastor has been hurt this year. His heart is broken over one of his sheep going astray."
He was so hurt he called him a sociopath to a reporter so it would get in the paper?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Strange way for a broken heart of a trained pastor to behave.
You seem to follow a pastor instead of Christ. Perhaps you think it is the same thing.
Anon 11:52
You want Tom to cease and desist??
You know what I want? I want abusive Pastors to stop manipulating their congregations with threatening language, name calling, demeaning and just flat out false doctrine.
Jesus had no difficulty at all taking on the church leaders of the day, for their smug know-it-all attitudes and complete lack of love.
I'm not comparing WD to Jesus. But Jesus set an example for us to follow and it appears to me that WD is doing his best to follow.
If Mac is hurt, then let him examine his own heart, the scriptures and deal with the result. He brought this upon himself. He behaved like a petulant child and a bully all at the same time. But he didn't stop there. It seems he may have actually used his Pastoral relationship with the Deacons and the Discipline Committee to break the law. That's reprehensible. I hope that he has some money stashed away because I'm fairly sure he will need it to pay damages, pain and suffering.
He has not behaved as a man of God. Neither did Soud or Hinson.
By all means encourage your Pastor to change his ways.
I join WishIhadknown in saying I've never seen anyone annointed by God in any real sense of the word.
If we did things your way, we'd all still be worshipping statues, believing in Purgatory and paying Indulgences. There is a place for disagreement and it seems people never learn the correct way to deal with it. It leaves people with few options.
I'm so thankful to WD for taking a stand.
I'm sure Pastor Mac will appreciate you running to his rescue.
"He was so hurt he called him a sociopath to a reporter so it would get in the paper?"
Waaaaaaahhhhh.... cry me a river. This pales in comparison to the garbage Tom Rich has posted on this blog that is no better that a checkout lane tabloid. Anon- are you an actual supporter, or are you kin to Rich himself?
"I hope that he has some money stashed away because I'm fairly sure he will need it to pay damages, pain and suffering."
What is the "pain and suffering" that Tom Rich has experienced? He published an anonymous blog wherein he was critical of all aspects of Pastor Brunson's work at FBC JAX. He was outed, and now has to stand behind the comments he makes. Since it has not stopped him from continuing to share his thoughts, does he really need more financial benefits from this? If he truly wants to serve as a watchdog, he will continue to do so without seeking "damages."
“Woe be unto the Pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture, saith the Lord. Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.” (Jeremiah 23:1-2)
Thanks WD and Merry Christmas.
Remember you are a messenger with a message that "they" do NOT want to hear and one that "they" want shut down because it is the truth.
We do care!
Some anonymous Mac follower said:
'Waaaaaaahhhhh.... cry me a river. This pales in comparison to the garbage Tom Rich has posted on this blog that is no better that a checkout lane tabloid'
Once again, these people, just like the political liberals, who use their feelings to get through life and avoid actual facts.
I have not seen any tabloid trash here. Can you provide examples?
Your boy 'Mac-the-knife', has clearly demonstrated junior high level leadership in this whole matter. Mac can be a funny guy, I love the video of him on a horse with his cowboy hat talking about VBS.
Credibility FAIL, both in his get-up and his conduct. TIme for a change in leadership. And right about now would be a good thing.
To ANON December 25, 2010 4:00 PM;
Sorry but the word is out on MAC and NO One will hire him especially with his salary and comp plan.
FBC JAX is stuck with him.
To bad he does not have a connection with our Christ and Lord.
I wonder if he or those like him would ever consider a small 100 members church if the Lord directed him or lead him to one.
Naah, forget about any wonders, there first question is "how much is the pay"? when it should be "wherever he leads, I will follow"....
Remember you are a messenger with a message that "they" do NOT want to hear and one that "they" want shut down because it is the truth.
We do care!
December 25, 2010 11:51 AM
A messenger? A messenger from whom? If you believe that the information presented in this blog is 100% truthful and not spun to the benefit of the Watchdog, you clearly see the world through the same rose colored glasses Tom would have you believe the FBC "sheep" see through when looking at Brunson. Mr. Rich has an ego big enough for ten bloggers- lets not inflate it anymore than is necessary.
FBC JAX has been in existence since 1838. That's 172 years of spreading the Word of God to the citizenry of Jacksonville. Those of you who support the "truth" provided by Tom Rich via this blog do so as blindly as those who he faults for following the teaching of Mac Brunson. While none of us were alive for the entire history of this church, it is likely that there have been other church leaders that conducted business much in the same way as Brunson. While it has not always existed as a "mega church" it has developed into that over time, and the fact that Brunson is a "mega church pastor" is at the crux of the Watchdog's "monitoring" here. While Brunson may have his faults, like all of us, he too is a sinner, and will be judged as we are all judged by God Himself.
The Watchdog has the right to publish these posts, however, at some point, he will move on, and then you will be left with having to find out information for yourselves, using your own judgment, as opposed to the one-sided argument presented by someone who now, although not of his own hand, is not an attendee of the church he criticizes. I read and read this blog, and I have yet to determine exactly what the Watchdog plans to get out of it. You can post the "truth" all day long, however, what has it done? The guy who is subject to the criticism found on this blog is still at the pulpit. The church still runs the same way it did before Tom Rich began this blog, and will likely continue to run the same way for years to come.
There are a TON of churches of all denominations available in Jacksonville. If you're not happy with the way things are operated at this particular church, why stay? It seems as though a great deal of folks go to FBC to use it as a status symbol instead of as a physical location at which to fellowship with a body of believers anyway. Instead of coming on here and doing nothing to better the situation, do something about it. Your spiritual health is seriously in question if you continue to attend a church that you disagree with. I post this not to argue with the Watchdog, but, to present my own concerns regarding the entire situation. Therefore, there's no need for his "supporters" to shred my opinions, for that is all they are.
The Watchdog has the right to publish these posts, however, at some point, he will move on, and then you will be left with having to find out information for yourselves, using your own judgment, as opposed to the one-sided argument presented by someone who now, although not of his own hand, is not an attendee of the church he discusses. I read and read this blog, and I have yet to determine exactly what the Watchdog plans to get out of it. You can post the "truth" all day long, however, what has it done? The guy who is subject to the criticism found on this blog is still at the pulpit. The church still runs the same way it did before Tom Rich began this blog, and will likely continue to run the same way for years to come.
Fellow readers, there are a TON of churches of all denominations available in Jacksonville. If you're not happy with the way things are operated at this particular church, why stay? It seems as though a great deal of folks go to FBC to use it as a status symbol instead of as a physical location at which to fellowship with a body of believers anyway. Instead of coming on here and doing nothing to better the situation, do something about it. Your spiritual health is seriously in question if you continue to attend a church that you disagree with. I post this not to argue with the Watchdog, but, to present my own concerns regarding the entire situation. Therefore, there's no need for his "supporters" to shred my opinions, for that is all they are.
"he will move on, and then you will be left with having to find out information for yourselves,"
For those who do wrong in church leadership, I'm sure they do love the old system where most people-even those in the actual church-have no clue what goes on behind the scenes.
But now we have the internet, so it's a little harder to hide things. Those who say they live their lives by the Word of God should ponder that verse about people who love darkness.
Mr. Rich has an ego big enough for ten bloggers- lets not inflate it anymore than is necessary.
December 25, 2010 9:50 PM
Funny this. Mac's ego is not big? He is just a poor humble mega church pastor who beats the sheep for more money. Not to mention called Tom a sociopath to a reporter. This is a man who would ruin people to keep his gravy train in tact. Too bad you want to follow him instead of Christ.
"The Watchdog has the right to publish these posts, however, at some point, he will move on, and then you will be left with having to find out information for yourselves, using your own judgment, as opposed to the one-sided argument presented by someone who now, although not of his own hand, is not an attendee of the church he discusses. I read and read this blog, and I have yet to determine exactly what the Watchdog plans to get out of it. You can post the "truth" all day long, however, what has it done? The guy who is subject to the criticism found on this blog is still at the pulpit. The church still runs the same way it did before Tom Rich began this blog, and will likely continue to run the same way for years to come."
If one person runs away from the idolatry of FBCJax and into the arms of Christ, Who had no where to lay His head, then ONE is saved from the materialistic mega monstrosities that are man centered. It is worth that ONE person.
You are looking at things from a worldly position. You do not know any better because that is what you have been taught. Success is about numbers, power and position. So unless Mac is removed or the church dies, according to you, this blog is a failure. According to your logic, the Cross was a failure because not everyone is saved.
But then Mac did not think it was a failure a few years back, did he? He went to great lengths to do something about it....underhanded, of course. Then he tried to impugn Tom's reputation by calling him a sociopath to a reporter.
What amazes me is that anyone can call themselves believers and follow such a man.
"Fellow readers, there are a TON of churches of all denominations available in Jacksonville. If you're not happy with the way things are operated at this particular church, why stay? "
Many on this blog have left. It is a duty to warn of the abherrent teaching and wolf behavior. Some people think it is normal because guys with titles behind pulpits told them.
My hope is that more will pray to have their 'filters' removed (veil as like Moses) and study scripture on their own. Meet the Real Jesus. Not the one Mac presents for his own advantage.
"Funny this. Mac's ego is not big? He is just a poor humble mega church pastor who beats the sheep for more money. Not to mention called Tom a sociopath to a reporter. This is a man who would ruin people to keep his gravy train in tact. Too bad you want to follow him instead of Christ."
"Not to mention called Tom a sociopath to a reporter." Wow. I guess Tom has not made ANY derogatory statements about Mac Brunson, or Mac Brunson's family, or others involved in the fiasco over the past few years, has he? No, I guess he hasn't said ANYTHING that could even top being called a sociopath by Brunson. While I'm not by any stretch a Brunson supporter, I think if we are attempting to be fair and impartial here, we need to look at this blog (as well as the leadership at FBC) from every possible angle.
"My hope is that more will pray to have their 'filters' removed (veil as like Moses) and study scripture on their own. Meet the Real Jesus. Not the one Mac presents for his own advantage."
Anon- This is my hope as well. However, I doubt that the information presented on this blog will help to bring that to pass. I for one, would like to see Tom post some POSITIVE Christian information on this page for a change. Perhaps just one blog post, but, given the number of folks that read this, it stands to reason that there are numerous individuals who have not yet accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior who could use positive information about the faith.
I have been acquainted with the Reverend Dr. Mac Brunson since the early 80's when he was pastor of the Green Street Baptist Church in High Point, NC. He was, then, an egotistical, self-serving, control oriented individual. It appears nothing has changed.
Jesus said..."Put you hand to the plow and don't look back."
That is exactly what Mac and our Church is doing!
We are not looking back at those who left out of disobedience to God.
We are not looking back at the naysayers and grumblers.
We are not looking back at those who hold their money and don't give God his 10%.
We are not looking back at the Gossip and Garbage written about our Church and our Leader.
WE ARE NOT LOOKING BACK....ARE YOU?
"Anon- This is my hope as well. However, I doubt that the information presented on this blog will help to bring that to pass. I for one, would like to see Tom post some POSITIVE Christian information on this page for a change. Perhaps just one blog post, but, given the number of folks that read this, it stands to reason that there are numerous individuals who have not yet accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior who could use positive information about the faith."
Funny thing is they already know about the evil within our paid professional Christian caste system. Sweeping the evil under the rug does not work. You want to present the fake Christianity that has been around so long. There are many of us who are saying "no longer". If Christians won't admit the evil in their midst. Who will?
In fact, they wonder why so many pew sitters are so naive as to actually follow guys like that who are on the gravy train. Contrast a guy like Brunson with the REAL Jesus. Trust me, they see right through it. Unless of course you are marketing the health and wealth Jesus which is a lie from the pit of hell.
"That is exactly what Mac and our Church is doing!
We are not looking back at those who left out of disobedience to God.
"
Now, that is some scary abherrent teaching! If you leave FBCJax...one is being disobedient to God?
I think just the opposite is true. because we are NEVER to follow a mere human. Only Christ. And one cannot follow Christ and hang with Mac.
" I read and read this blog, and I have yet to determine exactly what the Watchdog plans to get out of it. You can post the "truth" all day long, however, what has it done? The guy who is subject to the criticism found on this blog is still at the pulpit."
Read Acts 20. And it won't stop until Christ comes back. But that is no reason not to warn others of wolves. Paul did.
So let me get this straight.......In order to be obedient to God I must always remain at FBC Jax, and give 10% of my gross earnings to Mac Brunson, er God , ( undesignated of course) .
Two points here. If I give a meal or shelter, or even a cup of cold water to a homeless person, Jesus said I have done it as unto Him. Why give through Mac or any other "middleman" who will skim off the top and then give what little is leftover to needy folks ?? Seems like good old-fashioned common sense.
Second point. Were the Revs. Doug Pigg, Calvin Carr, Bob Barton, and Rodney Brooks disobedient to God for leaving FBC Jax after Mac Brunson arrived? I think not.
" And one cannot follow Christ and hang with Mac."
Unless, of course, Christ lived in a million dollar mansion in a gated community, drove fine luxury cars, took expensive European vacations, and ignored the homeless, who are literally at the steps of the FBC Jax church building.
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