Pastors say the darnedest things; especially when trying to twist peoples arms to convince them they must fork over 10% of their income as the starting point to begin enjoying God's blessings.Take Perry Noble, pastor of the fast-growing Newspring Church based in Anderson, SC.
As you'll see in the clip below from a sermon in March 2011 entitled "Greed" - which is a sermon about "greedy Christians" and how like a mob boss God knocks off greedy people - Perry declares the following:
"Maybe there would be less homosexuality in the world today if there were less greedy Christians who actually cared enough to tithe and spread the gospel."
If in Perry Noble's world there is a direct correlation between "greed" and the rate of "homosexuality" - then we have to lay the blame for homosexuality right at the doorstep of mega church pastors like Noble who despite raking in millions and millions in revenue, in their greed misuse scripture to guilt their congregations into forking over more and more of their income so they can enjoy God's blessings.
For a preacher to believe this and actually preach it should not be surprising. After all, Southern Baptist Mac Brunson tells us that our current economic troubles are a result of God punishing our country because of non-tithing Christians. Brunson also has portrayed God as some sort of cosmic loan shark who collects on what he is owed (10% of your income) by bringing personal misfortune, so you might as well save yourself the trouble and just fork it over. Another SBC'er, Ed Young, Jr. teaches that your career, your family, and your marriage will all suffer if you don't fork it over - in fact he says you're wasting God's time if you show up to church without your tithe check.
Perry Noble is not just some obscure preacher. As I've written about before, Perry is one of the most popular "emergent church" pastors in the world. He started NewSpring Church in 2000 and already it has grown to over 10,000 in attendance each week on five campuses - and with over $20 million dollars in revenue for 2010.
Although Perry was trained at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, and did serve as youth pastor in several SBC churches before starting NewSpring in 2000, Perry now has jettisoned most of the SBC traditions in his church except one: he still preaches hot and heavy the false doctrine of storehouse tithing.
If you want to watch the entire sermon entitled "Greed", click here, but be prepared for lots of scripture twisting as Perry regularly does on the topic of tithing.
On the positive side, Perry does help us see just how ridiculous the doctrine of storehouse tithing is. Perry takes the doctrine to its logical conclusion: that all ills in the world can be traced back to people who are robbing the God of the universe by not giving God's man (the preacher) enough money to fulfill his mission of spreading the gospel - by building bigger churches and taking larger salaries.
Thanks, Perry.
33 comments:
The pitiful thing is that when I saw the title, my initial mental reaction was, "You've got to be kidding me," but I knew darn well you wouldn't be.
Dawg, He says "maybe??" which is a question. He does not emphatically say "This is why!! You can spin it any way you wish, but I think making a statement in the form of a question is just that; to stir folks thought.
"Maybe if more folks tithed there would be no poor people?"
"Maybe if more folks tithed there would be no violence?"
"Maybe if more folks tithed there would be no global warming?"
"Maybe if more folks tithed all the folks killed in the recent tornadoes would not have died and or lost their homes?"
"Maybe if more folks tithed there would be no more war?"
"Maybe if more folks tithed there would be no abortions?"
"Maybe if more folks tithed there sons and daughters would get free educations?"
"Maybe if more folks tithed GE would actually pay taxes in America?"
"Maybe if folks tithed politicians would ALWAYS do the right thing?"
"Maybe if more folks tithed bloggers would not blog all kinds of stuff against His church?"
Asking the question is a LOT DIFFERENT than making a blanket statement as FACT!!
Questioner - you can spin it any way you wish, but rational people don't think in these terms.
Yes, he says "maybe".
He actually is trying to lay some of the blame on homosexuality on people who don't take their paycheck each week, move the decimal point one place and write a check to their church. To even insinuate a connection is absolute lunacy.
Defend it if you wish, downplay it or excuse it all you want, but as a friend of mine says: rational people don't have these conversations.
Actually, Questioner, he's answering the question. If he were to say "Would tithing end homosexuality? " he'd be asking a question, but now he's essentially made an indicative statement. It's no different than saying "Would tithing end homosexuality? Maybe. " Nice try, though.
there is alot that is profoundly crazy in south carolina, this being just the latest installment...remember jim bakker is rock mills sc? or the SC rep in congress shouting down the Pres as a "liar"...it's in the water there and influenced by decades of sloppy and stupid thinking all sped along by the clergy...
DAWG, making statements in the form of questions is as old as creation when Satan ask the question: "Did God really say not to eat of the fruit?"
Preachers are no different than anyone else, including Ron Littlebrain of the Times Union, or the idiots in DC, especially the top idiot in chief using the same technique to subversively get their point across.
Not one of these folks wants to state emphatically their point as it is easier to spin it when questioned by others as to their intent. This gives them a way out and does not box them into a corner.
The same is true with your blog. You state something that "They emphatically said something" when they really phrased it in the form of a question. Not saying this is good or bad. It is just an observation of human nature and will not change until Eternity.
"rational people don't have these conversations."
I guess that means Obama and his minions and the other goofballs on the other side of the isle "are not rational people" since they do have "these conversations"!
There are things I always find missing in sermons on tithing.
1) God begins by railing at PRIESTS about the quality of what they are giving, not the amount. They gave deformed animals to fulfill their pro forma obligation. They treated God as an item on a checklist i.e., their hearts were not in the right place.
2) The tithe was intended to be paid to levirate priests since they did not have land.
3) The old testament laws made all kinds of provisions for people who were 1) too far to bring the tithe; 2) poor enough that more than a very minor sacrifice would bankrupt them.
Fundraising is perfectly right and proper, but the business of saying there's this curse that descends upon you that can only be warded off by tithing is nonsense.
Tithing or non-tithing has nothing to do with homosexuality. You cannot change peoples heart with or without money. Its a condition of the heart. This is what is termed "another gospel".
How far is Anderson from Greenwood? What is in the food chain up there anyway?
So is he saying that more money to the church would allow them to reach more homosexuals for Christ?
Quite a stretch.
It's like the case I heard over and over in my church staff days. Let's have another event, seminar, workshop, fill in the blank - on a Saturday - and there are potentially "thousands" of people who might come. But they didn't. Expectations were never met.
"Expectations were never met."
YEP, hows that hope and change working out there for everyone that voted the DEMS into power?????????????????
Voted the Dems into power? My comment about expectations had nothing to do with that.
Another loony land is developing on this thread.
Which is one of the reasons Christians are looked at as such goofballs.
Be articulate and stay on topic.
Why does it take money for the church to 'reach people'? Are they only trying to reach people in other states? Other countries? Aren't their homosexuals in their city? What? Do they need gas money to go and see them?
Perry has a discipleship problem. And he needs to start with himself.
Perry Noble has long been a shock jock performer. He loves controversy. And didn't I read a while back he sued some people in his church?
In fact, Noble is another poster boy for what is NOT Christianity. People are so shallow they will follow anyone these days who entertains them enough.
We talk about greedy Christians but what about greedy churches? How do we get past this idea that once the money leaves the wallet there is no accountability. The rational is that we are a church and churches reach out to the lost and since we are using the money to carry out the mission of the the church then no matter what we do is ok.
Pastor Chris
Perry is another rich "pastor" (I use the term pastor loosely) conning the people in his congregation.
He has no problem browbeating a family to tithe no matter what little they make while living in a $475,000 house with his wife and one child.
Why do so many people get duped by these charlatans?
Is this guy for real?
Has he never heard of Bellevue Baptist Church, where a
"saved" male pastor did the unthinkable to his male child and is still in the ministry?
or
Rev. Ted Haggard “the accusations made against me are not all true but enough of them
are that I was appropriately removed from his church leadership position.”
or
Minneapolis Pastor Tom Brock claimed a tornado was God's retribution for allowing
openly gay clergy to serve as ministers. Turns out he's gay. Jun 24, 2010
or
Mega Pastor Jim Swilley "There comes a point in your life where you say 'How much time do we have left in our lives? Are we going to be authentic or not?'"
Now how is it that Perry Noble is so enamored by Homosexuality, that he brings it when preaching the Tithe?
Now how is it that Perry Noble is so enamored by Homosexuality, that he brings it when preaching the Tithe?
Maby, in a nice way Perry is informing the flock he is Homo, He could be asking for Prayer.
Gay men and women have been the false targets of so many in the church who seek to blame us for natural disasters, bad economic news, moral crisis in the Catholic (and Prostestant, too!) church, the breakdown in families and the institution of marriage, etc, etc. Who knew we had so much power! And now we are to blame for the lack of giving in the churches, too. I think the seminary he attended should refund his money.
he also is showing that the church critisizes homosexuality while overlooking there own greed. he is not saying there is a direct correlation of lack of tithing as a reason for more homosexuality. most people that go to church in america can afford to give 10 percent and be a little out of there comfort zone. in fact the poorest americans are at still in the top 10% of the wealthiest people in the world. god says when much is given to us musch is expected. Perry also said in this sermon tthat if you were not lead to give or able to give money you can give you time, and the people that arent able to give their time can give their money so they can team up and accomplish gods purpose.
To an earlier post that kept stating "Maybe". I believe there was a person in the garden that cast doubt in a persons mind. He phrased his statement slightly differently though, using the term 'Did God really say?'. I think the result is the same, that of causing doubt in the listeners mind. Study and quote scripture alone in context to refute the devil. Methinks a bit of guilt by manipulation here and works rightousness. Old tricksssss
Tithe teachers do not correctly identify the Church as the body of Christ. They twist Genesis 14 and Hebrews 7 to show that we are obligated to Tithe today.
They twist the law and say the Church building is the new storehouse. They twist the word Tithe to mean a tenth of one's income.
Then they ignore much of the Bible, all that talks about what the Tithe is, who pays the Tithe, and who receives the Tithe.
Then they want people to believe that they are preaching the gospel, when they are actually telling lies from Satan.
Then they wonder why the Church has no power, in spite of it's millions of congregants and hundreds of millions of dollars.
Matthew 23:3
They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
I go to newspring church, and understand what he is trying to say. When you tithe it’s not for the church. When you tithe it’s to show your obedience towards our father in heaven. The bible is not a buffet you can’t pick out what you like and leave out what you don’t it’s all or none. What Perry is trying to say is if we would live the life God has called us to live and be obedient to his word we would have a better relationship with him and know more of what he wants for our lives. It’s our job to serve it’s our job to reach the lost, and it’s our job to take our next steps in our relationship with Christ. I would be willing to bet most people on here talking bad about the tithe or how all the church wants is your money has a problem with your love for money. You put your money before God and that are a big issue my friend. YOU CAN ONLY HAVE 1 LOVE... Take your money I’ll take God any day of the week. This is coming from a guy that Loves Newspring because I was born again here thanks to Perry.
I have also been attending New Spring and he will tell you up front that if you know of a better organization or a charity or church you want to support other than his church to do it. He doesn't your money. But God does. God requires 10% of your income and is very clear about it in the Bible. Perry doesn't make it up. God says, "Give." God says "Obey." More money for Christ allows more people to be reached. It allows more people to come to Christ. More people can be reached and every person has a story and a life and every person needs Jesus. In fact, if ,more people gave to God than more people might be saved an there would be less sin all around: homosexuality, adultery, pornography and other sins would be put on the shoulders of Jesus.
Anonymous of April 22, 2011 1:37 PM,
Your comments are related to something else I don't undertand about most Christians in the United States, and it really bothers me.
Despite the fact the Bible instructs Christians to put their immediate spiritual (local body of believers) and flesh- and- blood family first, then their local community, and lastly, anyone who may fall outside of that, most of them choose to ignore the needy or the hurting in their families or neighborhoods.
Most American Christians choose to ignore hurting people right under their noses to help the exotic or extreme "down and out" cases, such as girls sold into human trafficking in foreign nations, or homeless people who sleep in cardboard boxes.
I think it's very nice to help homeless people and abused girls, but not if you are also, at the same time, totally ignoring the hurting man or woman sitting next to you each week in church, or the lonely impoverished senior citizen who lives next door to you.
I went to a church for several months, and I opened up to some of the people at the church to let them know I was really going through some painful issues in my life...
Despite the fact they knew me, and knew what I was going through, they chose to brush me off, or lecture me and to tell me I should care only about those less fortunate than myself. They didn't even attempt to comfort me or show me any encouragement about what I was undergoing.
These same Christians would cry over, and show compassion for, the homeless people they met while volunteering monthly at a homeless shelter, but then show no compassion for me.
They were very picky and choosy about whom they showered their compassion on. They were choosing to care about and for homeless people at a shelter that were strangers to them - above me, a fellow Christian, whom they saw every week.
Most American ministries, especialy the televised ones, are obsessed with helping Africans, especially African children. I'm not saying that's bad, but aren't there abused or impoverished kids in the United States, or just hurting people in their own churches, they could be helping too?
To the Anon right above me.
God does not command that all believers give him (or the local church) 10%.
The New Testament says each believer is to give an amount what he/she deems comfortable with, and not out of compulsion, obligation, fear, guilt, but out of a cheerful heart.
Signed,
OvergrownThicket
To the Anon who wrote,
Perry also said in this sermon that if you were not lead to give or able to give money you can give you time,
As a woman over 35 who has not been married or had a kid, I call total hooey and baloney on that.
It sure sounds pretty, but in reality, churches don't play by it at all.
Most conservative denominations and churches have very limited (to no roles) for women, even if the women ask to serve!
I do not agree with "gender complementarianism" which teaches, among other things, that Christian women should never, ever be permitted to lead, teach, or have authority over a spouse (which has also been stretched by many churches to include any man at all, at any time, for any reason - more hooey and nonsense).
So, most Christian women, if they are permitted to serve in any category at a church, are relegated to baby sitters in the church nursery, kitchen cleaner upper, or church secretary.
The problem is, a lot of Christian women have no interest in those areas or are not skilled, talented, or gifted at that stuff.
We are also talking about some Christian women who are college educated and career professionals.
It's a disgrace that that sort of brain power, talent, and skill should be wasted on cleaning up muffin crumbs or wiping snotty kid noses, especially when said women have no interest in doing those things anyway.
I have never liked babies or children, yet one of the few positions churches ever offer to open up to an unmarried Christian woman is working in the church nursery, or teaching five year olds Bible stories.
Churches most certainly do not want a Christian woman's time, especially not if she is over 30 years old and not maternal, is unmarried, doesn't have any kids, and has no interest or ability at playing "Susie Q home maker" in the church building.
Signed,
OvergrownThicket
I am so sick of "christian" fear of homosexuality. Jesus said a new commandment I give to you to love one another. All of this judging has nothing to do with love. The fear tactic preaching also has nothing to do with love. Living in a half million dollar home driving fancy cars has nothing to do with love. Basically these pastors have lost the idea of Jesus's love due to their own love of money. Sickening stuff.
D.L. Moody came to his pulpit one Sunday morning and there was a note that said "fool". He look at it for a minute than said I have received a lot of letters over the years not signed, but today I received one that was signed. It is easy today for people to hide behind a computer, or write some and sign it anonymous. Bloggers write things with little regard to the truth and then people respond who know even less of the truth. To many people the Bible means nothing, to others it is a way of life, filled with sinners who still struggle with their own flesh but God still draws them to him and the closer we really to god the more we are like Him. As one pastor said that Jesus hung out with folk not like him and people not like him hung out with Jesus. The Bible is very plain. "as you judge so shall you be judge". We all need to give thought before we speak. Now according to the Blogger he reserves the right not to allow any comment that he or she don't like to be published. so be it, this may not go anywhere but I will sign it (not as anonymous) but as my real name. Zane Talley
FBC Jax: what did Perry Noble say that was wrong? Comprehensive? Certainly not, but is not giving and stewardship directly connected to the heart and devotion of people to the things of God? You can't serve God and money (it didn't say you can't HAVE God and money of course). To serve it means to give God second, or to give it worth and dependence that trumps what we give to God. ...and those who do that not only withhold from what great missions agencies are able to do in carrying forth the Gospel globally, but also, in all likelihood, but also fail to share the Gospel themselves because their lives hardly tell the world that it's compelling enough to follow.
Jeff McLaughlin
Twitter: @jeffamclaughlin
Jeff - I read your comment five times, and I have clue what you're trying to say. Read it again yourself. Does what you say make sense to you? Not sure even how it ties in to this article of mine, which is 3 years old.
Did Noble finish seminary school? I've read a couple things and I have been trying to look into it. Do you know or do you have the resources to find out?
Noble starts with this with the admission that he is a seminary dropout. I have nothing against anyone who went to seminary and didn’t finish. I do however think Noble’s reasoning for the dropout presents a problem.
"I could list several reasons why; however, the main one was that I personally did not want to continue to invest hundreds of hours of my time and thousands of dollars into something that in the end would not adequately equip me for what I knew I would be facing in the “real world” known as ministry."
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