As I have blogged over the past year, Ergun Caner has still continued to make his rounds on the preaching circuit. He really has not slowed down his preaching schedule since he was removed from his post as president at Liberty University's seminary last summer. This summer he is very active, preaching in church camps including Tim Lee's youth camp, and FBC Jax's middle school and high school camp.But one thing about Caner's preaching over the past year: there are hardly any sermons online. Even when he preaches at churches that do have sermon video/audio feeds, you won't find Caner's sermons posted.
And after listening to his latest sermon - preached at Brookwood Church in Burlington, North Carolina on June 26, 2011 - there is probably a good reason that you won't find publicly posted sermons.
Caner is still stretching the truth about his past, and is still trying to maintain his image of being a devout Muslim and Turkish immigrant and almost-terrorist. Of course he can't still make the claims of being a Jihadist trained in Beirut, or being raised in Istanbul learning of American culture by watching Turkish television...but he STILL is not being completely honest with his audiences.
So parents of FBC Jax, when Caner is with your young people at camp, don't be surprised if he uses it as an opportunity to mislead them about his past to rebuild his brand just as he did in this sermon. While Caner has the potential to do much harm to young unsuspecting Christians who trust their church leaders and parents to do right by them - having Caner in will certainly benefit your pastor who is Caner's co-author. Pretty sick stuff.
Some excerpts from last Sunday's sermon at Brookwood Church:
"Turkish, immigrant, Yankee. I know. Turkish, born in Stockholm, Sweden, but Turkish - immigrant, Yankee. Raised as a Sunni Muslim, got saved in Columbus, Ohio. Why in the world would I be telling you all this? Because I have heard and seen my people before - even Christians who come out of my background - and sometimes they're very hard to understand. [speaking now in a fake, heavy Middle Eastern dialect]: 'I am very happy to be here, thank you so much, take this as a spoon from my country, please pass it around, thank you'. Do you know why you can understand me? Seventeen years ago, God got me married to a girl from Brookwood church....Turkish, immigrant, Yankee, married a girl from Hall River, North Carolina."
"Now I'm the proud father of two amazing half-breed children. My boys who are half Turkish, half green-level (?)..."
"[complaining about having to get up early at camp to preach]: That means I had to be awake at 7 o'clock. Which means I had to get up before anybody else was showering which would be 6 o'clock. I'm up before Jesus and the Mexicans at 6 a.m. getting ready for today."Caner still making stereotypical racial references. Wonderful. What is interesting about the sermon at Brookwood is how little the crowd responds to his jokes.
"If you're a Christian grump you're a caffeinated Christian. I'm Turkish, we eat coffee."He's actually not Turkish. He was born in Sweden, and raised in Columbus, Ohio. He might like lots of strong coffee, but he is not Turkish.
"That's what they [his wife's family] call me: 'Butch'. My name is Ergun Mehmet Janel - Ergun Caner. They don't call me Ergun Caner, they call me Butch."
Sure, his family calls him Butch. That was a name that Caner used pre 9/11, as indicated here. He was known as "Butch Caner", or "E. Michael Caner." No, his name is not "Ergun Mehmet Janel" as he still claims. It is not even "Ergun Mehmet Caner". His legal name is "Ergun Michael Caner" and prior to 9/11 he pastored as Butch Caner or E. Michael Caner. Again, Caner can't avoid stretching the truth to further his brand of being the former Muslim.
Speaking about his conversion as a high schooler:
He speaks for Muslims and paints all Muslims as terrorists. Not all Muslims believe that they gain salvation by killing people. Again, Caner seems to want his listeners to think he was taught as a child that he needed to strap a bomb to himself to gain salvation."You see in Islam, we have atonement. That is why we kill ourselves and take you with us. That is why we get on buses, why we get on planes. We think that by shedding our blood it's gonna give us salvation....That Jesus strapped himself to a cross, and I would have to strap a bomb to myself."
"That night we go to afterglow [night of his Christian conversion]. That's where everybody goes to Denny's I-Hop, Huddle House...I got to tell the waitress that I was saved, and I got to eat every piece of ham they had on the menu."
"My mom, she's a church planter in a place called Truth or Consequences, New Mexico....and if she ever shows up witnessing to you, you'll know it. Heavy accent, tiny little woman, smoking....ripping filters off of Pall Malls.... 'Filters are for wimps' [Caner quoting his mom using heavy middle eastern accent]. She'll be at your door "I want to tell you about Jesus" [again, in middle eastern accent].Only problem is, Caner's mother would not have a middle eastern accent. She is Swedish.
Anyways, why rehash all of this?
Because Caner is still not being honest with congregations. He is still preaching his stories in Southern Baptist churches, and worst: he is still preaching to young people. And First Baptist Jacksonville is giving him access to their middle schoolers and high schoolers for a week isolated at camp.
One would think that when he was caught red-handed lying for nearly a decade, that he would have an about-face and be completely honest, staying away from any stretches of the truth, and being absolutely clear about his past, particularly those parts that he lied about in the past.
But instead, it's more of the same.
But he does it all for Jesus, so it must be OK.
60 comments:
He is going to be there for 2 more weeks, would love to hear excerpts from these sermons as well.
His wife grew up in and graduated high school in Burlington NC not in Haw River (which is next to Burlington). Once again a needless lie. Why lie about something like this?
'His wife grew up in and graduated high school in Burlington NC not in Haw River'
Where she grew up may not be where she is from. Caner grew up in Ohio but he is not from there. If he said he was, we would be adding another lie to the list.
'Once again a needless lie.'
Maybe,maybe not. More proof would be needed to confirm such.
'Why lie about something like this?'
He may not be. We need to be careful in what we say are lies (and you may be correct in your assertion) or we could be speaking a lie.
'His wife grew up in and graduated high school in Burlington NC not in Haw River'
Where she grew up may not be where she is from. Caner grew up in Ohio but he is not from there. If he said he was, we would be adding another lie to the list.
'Once again a needless lie.'
Maybe,maybe not. More proof would be needed to confirm such.
'Why lie about something like this?'
He may not be. We need to be careful in what we say are lies (and you may be correct in your assertion) or we could be speaking a lie.
June 30, 2011 7:39 AM"
Ooops, I made a mistake she moved to Burlington from Raleigh before starting high school. So she grew up in Raleigh and not Haw River.
Either way, she is not from Haw River and therefore he did lie.
When George Bush lied, people died.
This is a lot different.
It is just preaching, everyone knows that preachers will beef up a story to make it sound better.
Spurgeon did it too.
"When George Bush lied, people died.
This is a lot different.
It is just preaching, everyone knows that preachers will beef up a story to make it sound better.
Spurgeon did it too.
June 30, 2011 8:03 AM"
Not all preachers beef up their stories and it is not just preaching. This is about trying to win souls to Jesus.
What is wrong with asking the leaders of our churches, colleges and conventions to have some integrity and to be as honest as possible. Men of God should hold themselves accordingly and not lie about things they know are lies or make fun of or make stereotypical racial references.
I am sorry there is nothing that can be said to justify what this man does in the name of God and the comments he makes are crass, ignorant and down right shameful.
A key part of Caner's past seems to center around Columbus, Ohio. FBC Jax has just started a church plant in Columbus, Ohio. What are the odds?
People like Caner have confidence in two things-the ignorance of their audiences and their own ability to charm.
Their charm lets me them get away with almost anything, so why give that up?
Most people do not read this blog, and their pastors obviously keep them as uninformed as possible, so they have no reason to disbelieve what the charming preacher is telling them.
The same thing happened with a murder suspect recently. He wasn't arrested for about three years after the murder. During that time, they have an email where his sister is concerned re his life and how he's got this possible murder charge hanging over his head. He explains to her that most people don't know a thing about his wife getting murdered.
Then at his recent trial, he himself goes on the stand and gains sympathy and becomes more human for his audience. He simply does what has always worked well for him. (And it did help him because the jury was hung 8-4 to acquit. They declared a mistrial.) I'm not saying his performance was the only influence, of course, but he was a very good talker. In fact, he had worked mainly in sales.
Another similarity is the "nerve" they show. They simply are not fearful people.
I think Sharon has been absolutely right about Caner.
I was in an office the other day and the person had a plaque with a quote on it by DL Moody that said "If I take care of my character my reputation will take care of itself."
Caner has not taken care of his character and seems unable to. (That's why I am certain he's a pathological liar with a personality disorder)
Some have said that Caner ought to be left alone. In reality any bad press that Caner receives (like the recent TV news spot) is Caner's own fault. None of this would be happening if Caner had taken care of his character.
Sharon said...
"People like Caner have confidence in two things-the ignorance of their audiences and their own ability to charm."
Isn't that the classic definition of a scam artist?
Squirrel
Watchdog,
I think you ought to consider a post on Peter Lumpkins. When you exposed the Caner issue, Lumpkins wrote that those who pressed that Caner "lied" were the ones who were actually “biased,” not to mention void of “reality." He also accuses (in the title of one of his multiple posts of Caner defense, no less) that people who have sought to bring accountablity to Caner have had some kind of breakdown. That post, titled "Matt Svoboda on Ergun Caner: A Picture of Complete Meltdown in Understanding the Necessary Requirement for Public Accusation of Alleged Moral Failure" defends Caner to the hilt, attacking anyone who thinks Caner has lied.
Now, Mr. Lumpkin is going after Dr. Mohler for saying "the SBC has lied" about homosexuality. It would be interesting for you to do a compare and contrast between the two issues that Peter has weighed in on and evaluate what could best be called an eggregious inconsistency and at worst a moral lapse of character for what is being done.
Wade
P.S. As you know, I have not always defended Al Mohler's positions, so this is not a protection of Dr. Mohler as much as it is a question to you if you see the hypocrisy of Caner's defenders.
'Ooops, I made a mistake'
I am sure glad it was a mistake and not a lie. Regardless if you ask or not, I forgive you for your lie, uh, I mean mistake.
'I think you ought to consider a post on Peter Lumpkins. '
Gracious Wade, that is gracious. 8-)
The most gracious thing Watchdog could do for the SBC is delve into why there is a culture of protection for blatant liars and an environment of denigration for those who are attempting to be honest and transparent.
'The most gracious thing Watchdog could do for the SBC is delve into why there is a culture of protection for blatant liars and an environment of denigration for those who are attempting to be honest and transparent.'
It may be if we are to called to live a life exposing the SBC. This is just as dangerous as the legalism going on in the SBC towards churches who do not conform.
Wade you are a very bright person do you not see the personal attacks, in many of the comments, being made against those who the watchdog is exposing? What is happening here is crossing the line from exposing to vilification of individuals. Maybe not directly within the original posts but the open discussion which quickly slides down that slope into personal attacks. Do you not see this?
"Anonymous said...
'Ooops, I made a mistake'
I am sure glad it was a mistake and not a lie. Regardless if you ask or not, I forgive you for your lie, uh, I mean mistake.
June 30, 2011 10:12 AM"
One thing about my mistake, I immediately owned up to and corrected it. Furthermore my statements can be proven by school records.
Caner has purposely lied about who he is and where he came from. His lies can be proven and he has denied any wrong doing. He continues to lie to this day and still remains defiant saying these are simple mistakes.
I made the mistake and immediately corrected it. Caner makes "mistakes" and continues making these same "mistakes". How do you forget where you were born?
Caner sold books and charged speaking fees based upon these lies or "mistakes". Guess what, that not only makes him a liar "serial mistaker", it makes him a cheat, a fraud and a thief. He needs to thank his lucky stars that the feds do not investigate him because if that does happen he could be facing criminal charges since he sold books online and sent them through the mail based upon these simple "mistakes".
'One thing about my mistake, I immediately owned up to and corrected it. Furthermore my statements can be proven by school records. '
I am in no way defending Caner. This discussion does not have to be an either for him or against him. If Caners words are going to be held against him, then so should ours.
I am glad you owned up to your mistake. Caner has owned up to his misspeaks. He did not call them a lie, he said he misspoke. You did not call your statement a lie but said it was a mistake. You did own up to your mistake, so has Caner. You did it quicker then him but only after being exposed.
Since Haw river does not have a school district, do you know if those people from Haw river attend Alamance Burlington School district schools? Maybe his wife calls Haw river home. Do you know if this could be?
I'm not defending Caner but have heard him in the past using humor (some good, some not so good). I would want to know the full context of what was said at Brookwood before I passed judgment as to whether his current stuff was intended to be funny but failed to be.
It does seem you want a pass for making a mistake and do not want to be seen or called a liar. You admission of the mistake was a blessing. Is there a reason you could not give Caner a pass for confessing he misspoke? Maybe we should, maybe we shouldn't.
I'll see if I can find the sermon from Brookwood and listen to it then find if I think he was attempting to be funny or not. Until then, thanks for saying you misspoke (made a verbal mistake).
You can listen to Caner's Brookwood sermon by clicking on the hyperlink in the blog article that goes to Brookwood's website. It is on the front page of their site, at least for now.
I am reminded of Disney's new show, "Shake It Up". There are two characters who immigrated to the United States during the 1st Grade. The joke is that they still speak with extremely obnoxious eastern European accents.
"Is there a reason you could not give Caner a pass for confessing he misspoke? Maybe we should, maybe we shouldn't."
I am sure at times he misspoke in his preachings and for those I give him a pass.
However the statements that he makes continuously about where he was born, grew up, how he grew up and his other statements are lies.
These are lies that helped create a persona by Caner to bank off 9/11.
As far as the schools and where his wife lived is concerned, I went to school with her, I knew her and knew where she lived and it was not in Haw River.
Immigrating ca age 2 does not result in a heavy foreign accent.
The person who said he had made a mistake corrected it and apologized. Caner has yet to correct his lies, has not apologized for them, has not repented of them to those to whom he lied (thousands of church goers, hundreds of military personnel, and now hundreds of middle and high school students), and has not ceased the sinful behavior.
It is one thing to make a small mistake, but these are major factual issues about his life, family and education that were told to make him a credible critic of Muslims and so that he could profit from it, both in his career (he has) and financially (he has). He has sold his soul for status and financial gain.
Ergun Caner has the unique distinction of "poisoning the well" of the spread of The Gospel, especially to Moslems.
'The person who said he had made a mistake corrected it and apologized.'
Not true. Therefore a lie.
'It is one thing to make a small mistake, but these are major factual issues about his life, family and education that were told to make him a credible critic of Muslims and so that he could profit from it, both in his career (he has) and financially (he has).'
So a small mistake is of lesser concern to you? is this true of God?
I am in no way defending Caner but if one is going to portray him as a liar (even if he deserves it), needs to make sure they are totally truthful when calling him out. Stating a lie to expose a lie is still a lie.
When does a lie become a mistake or a mistake become a lie? Who gets to draw that line?
Turretinfan > Misstatements vs. Lies - Dr. James White and Dr. Ergun Caner in Contrast - James White Video
Turretinfan > Who Can Speak Truth? ("An Ulima" and "Caliphats" Surrounding Caner's Father) - James White Video
So, James White is the final authority on what constitutes the difference between a mistake and a lie?
Who gets to make that decision?
There is a huge difference between making a mistake of fact out of ignorance, and deliberately lying about things one knows about one's past. The Anon who posted about where Caner's wife grew up was mistaken, innocently, about a portion of where the wife grew up, having known her in high school. He checked and corrected his error and apologized for it.
Caner's lies are of a totally different character, because he should know the truth about where he grew up, what he did and did not do. When people have checked the public records, Caner is proved to have lied. Never lived in Turkey, never was trained to be a jihadist suicide bomber, grew up watching TV in Columbus, OH not Turkey, came to this country ca 2 years of age from his birthplace, Sweden. And was raised by divorced or legally separated parents, and lived with his mother, who was not a Muslim.
Those are facts about Caner that he has lied about.
Arce,
You have now stated twice:
'He checked and corrected his error and apologized for it.'
I find no where he apologized. You have said twice, he did. I responded once already saying he did not yet you want to assert this same mistake (misspeak, lie) again. Why? There have only been 25 comments and finding an apology should be rather easy, especially when you have been told there has been no apology.
Why keep making the same mistake over again?
Wade,
Just to get your input. Are lies now simply " self-contradictory statement of fact"?
Sure seems to me that many people have redefined the meaning of telling a falsehood.
When people who claim the blood of Christ can't tell the difference between what is true and what is not true, then we can't complain when the unbeliever points to us as says "I want no part of that".
I don't want any harm to come to Ergun or his family. But any harm he is experiencing is self-imposed. I continue to pray for him.
The difference between C.S. Lewis and Ergun Caner is that Lewis did not place himself in his stories. Caner did. Caner made himself the central figure in the fictional stories he told from the pulpit.
I look at him like Mark Twain.
Mark Twain told stories like he was actually there.
Mark Twain told stories to drive home a truth.
Not defending Caner but it seems he has to justify his outrageous lies somehow.
I like Mark Twain!
Mark Twain didn't pretend to have crediblity on a particular topic. Caner did. Caner lied.
There's a common similarity here.
Tom Rich told lies about Mac Brunson's motives.
Ergun Caner told lies about his background and who he was.
Politicians lie to us everyday.
Everyone lies. Conclusion reached.
Peter Lumpkins > Matt Svoboda on Ergun Caner: A Picture of Complete Meltdown in Understanding the Necessary Requirement for Public Accusation of Alleged Moral Failure
I lied this morning.
I told my wife that I like this blog.
Katie,
I appreciate your question and your spirit. I have told our staff that if and when there is a public apology from Ergun Caner I will invite him to come speak at Emmanuel. I, too, want Caner and his family to prosper, and I consider him a brother in Christ.
Now, to your question. Are lies now simply "self-contradictory statements of fact"?
No.
Interestingly, the definition of Caner's testimony by Liberty's investigation committee as "self-contradictory statements of fact" is illogical. I think what they are attempting to do is exonerate Dr. Caner from INTENTIONALLY lying by saying, "he just stated facts, but on different occasions, the facts were "self-contradictory" and there was no motive to intentionally mislead."
Either way, there is deception involved and a public apology is required because it was a public offense.
It seems like now that Ergun has been caught and exposed, yet continues to fabricate, he must be pathological.
Pathological behavior, no matter how much love and forgiveness it receives, cannot be trusted.
But NOT to worry! I'm sure our troll will compare him to someone in scripture for us, and it will all be OK.
What was I thinking.
The problem is that what Ergun Caner is doing is no different from what a lot of preachers who rely heavily on biography and narrative do. The homiletical scene is FULL of people who rely on half-truths, distortions, exaggerations, inventions and outright fabrications, and has been for quite some time. Lots of folk know that if always telling the truth about events and personalities were a requirement for the position, there would be a lot of empty pulpits and pastor-less churches.
In light of this, Caner and his supporters are taking the position that he is being singled out for doing basically what lots of other preachers do, and that his being singled out is mostly due to the improper motives of his accusers. They are taking the position: why go after Caner and not everybody else? Why is everyone else allowed to spout "factual statements that are self-contradictory" and given "pulpit license" except Caner? Why is Caner being held to a higher standard than so many other evangelical and fundamentalist preachers, including those whom Caner himself learned from and emulated?
Of course, these folks are being disingenuous as to how "Butch Caner" was transformed into "Ergun Mehmet Caner." You see, prior to September 11th, having a Muslim/Arab (though are Turks actually Arab? ah what does it matter) background was actually a hindrance in the circles that Caner was teaching and pastoring, so it was in his interests to be as "American" as possible in a lot of places that were still coming to grips with the whole "integration" thing and what not. It was only after September 11th that being an Arab ex-Muslim became a positive instead of a negative, and being a former terrorist trainee who was an expert on the Muslim religion and culture was more to it.
So, while "tall tales" and "fishing stories" are regrettably common in the pulpit, Caner's going from "Butch Caner" to "Ergun Mehmet Caner" exceeds even the exaggerations and lies that are "normal" for the pulpit. The problem is that the personalities and institutions that accepted and embraced the small liars yesterday and will again tomorrow aren't going to be very likely to oppose a big liar today.
I believe Mark Twain's books are found in the fiction section of the library.
No, Turks are not Arabs. Though I assume their close proximity to the Arab world means that there must be some racial overlap. This is where we get into Caner saying that he didn't mean to leave this impression. He seemed to identify closely with Arab Muslims in his sermons. Lebanon and Egypt are both largely Arabic countries. All of the 9/11 hijackers were Arab. He seemed to imply that there was a close alignment in the 1960-70s between Arab Muslim terrorists and Turkish Muslims.
This guy is the DEVIL in the flesh. He ought to be arrested, flogged, whipped, mocked, scourged, deprived of food and water for days, spit upon and more.
He ought to have all the money taken back from him that he has made preaching in churches and camps the past ten years WHY? To show him you cannot and should not lie, cheat, steal, mislead, and mock God's name. He has made a very nice and high-income living at the hands of other Believers. He is a modern day "snake oil salesman," and any person or preacher (BRUNSON inlcluded) who helps him promote his pack of lies, ought to be whipped right along with him. That's my take... wanna know how I really feel? I'll tell you if you want to know! The Bible says there will be wolves in Sheep's clothing, and CANER is one of the biggest out there! Turn or BURN CANER!! Now or never!
Any parent of FBC JAX that lets their kid go to youth camp with Caner as camp preacher ought to be examined by a psychiatirst!. I would not let mine go -- not in a million years...NOT EVER!!
"Any parent of FBC JAX that lets their kid go to youth camp with Caner as camp preacher ought to be examined by a psychiatirst!. I would not let mine go -- not in a million years...NOT EVER!!"
If everyone feels so strongly, why not go and publicly picket the camp instead of just venting in the blogosphere.
I think that would be more effective, especially if the media was alerted to the ruckus.
maybe he believes his own hype . . . in that case, God help him
if not, he is a liar and an opportunist . . .
and in that case, God help the Church
I am so glad I am not a member within the Baptist denomination any longer.
Leaving was so refreshing.
Hope every one enjoys the Baptist ride.
I am not smarter than most of those who listen to all those within the Baptist Mafia, I just have some " good ole' God given - common sense."
Need I say more?
It seems that Ergn, a.k.a "Butch" believes that this Jesus we are proclaiming just has to have some public relations help. Obviously, we have reached a new era in which showmanship and smoke and mirrors is the new norm for reaching the lost. Standing before an audience and opening your Bible and telling the Good News must be passe....We are fooled and fooled again by people who enlighten us.....and the only reason they can is because we have been complacent in knowing the Bible. I long for a time when you can depend on a church's biblical teaching....not sermons on touchy/feely, not 20 minutes of musical banality....just the Word. I am too distrustful now of any man who stands as the Shepherd of His Flock....I am saddened, but I stand on the Rock that is Christ Jesus....Butch will be better served to remember that Jesus needs no grease paint and joking on his behalf.
'This guy is the DEVIL in the flesh. He ought to be arrested, flogged, whipped, mocked, scourged, deprived of food and water for days, spit upon and more.'
Do you really believe all of this?
I heard the entire Brookwood sermon last night.
1. Caner is doing 11 (Eleven) Summer Camps this summer.
2. Caner appears to be doing well for his speaking gigs.
3. After listening to his Brookwood sermon, I personally would pay Caner NOT to preach Brookwood sermon any where or any sermons similar to this.
4. I truly felt bad for the listeners of Brookwood sermon.
Thy Peace - good observations.
I thought the sermon fell absolutely flat. There was hardly any laughter at his jokes, scant applause when he was done. It was either a VERY small congregation, or his sermon was not received well or both.
The sermon itself, was more about him and his family and his background and his jokes, than about the lesson in the bible. It was the worst sermon I've heard him deliver. He preached from Acts, and the going back and forth between the bible and using his family as examples was ridiculous. It was obvious that the point of his sermon was HIM and not the bible lesson. He was interested in convincing them them that indeed he is "Turkish, Muslim, Immigrant", and that he never lied.
I've compared Caner's style to that of Perry Noble. Perry's favorite topic in his sermon is Perry, and Perry's wife and kids. So it is with Caner.
I could also do without Caner describing his wife as "hot", and drawing out the "h"..."hhhhhhhot". Why do the rock star preachers want to tell people how "hot" their wives are? Noble does it, Caner does it, Furtick does it. What public figures EVER brag about how "hot" their wife is? Why is Wade not telling his congregation how "hot" his wife is?? Because Wade is a mature, serious man. Caner and Noble and Furtick, well, not so much.
And to make it all worse, Brunson on June 29th tweeted the following:
"@erguncaner for so they persecuted the prophets. Your in real good company. Be of good cheer."
Funny, I thought the OT prophets were persecuted for telling the TRUTH, not for lying. How twisted.
Brunson is an enabler of Caner, to the detriment of the youth at FBC Jax.
Used to be that the pastor of FBC Jax guarded the flock as best they could from the likes of Caner...sure is a different day.
"I am so glad I am not a member within the Baptist denomination any longer.
Leaving was so refreshing.
Hope every one enjoys the Baptist ride.
I am not smarter than most of those who listen to all those within the Baptist Mafia, I just have some " good ole' God given - common sense."
Need I say more?"
I, too, am a former Baptist. I think there are a lot of us out there. We should form a club. Actually there are already ex-fundie support groups.
Anyway, I think what makes Baptist World so much like a soap-opera is that it's always been about personalities. It's all about preachers up there behind the pulpit screaming and stomping around and telling you you're all going to hell! So preachers who are good at drama and big on the power trip of it all get lots of followers (groupies?)
I think "healtheland" made some great comments also. Just like with politicians, if you started strictly fact-checking sermons, a lot of preachers would be embarrassed-not all. But that's not quite the same thing as purposely misrepresenting where you were born and where you grew up. I don't know of any preachers who do that.
Caner seems to have created a persona and wants to keep presenting that persona. It's sorta like Stephen Colbert-he's "in character." Except with Colbert, we KNOW he's doing this. We KNOW he's just entertaining us.
Sharon - I liken "Ergun Mehmet Giovanni Janel" (Caner's name he used when preaching at FBCJ after 9/11), the former terrorist personna that led to his books and speaking tour, to the characters of Sacha Baren Cohen. Cohen made a movie called "Borat", and made an entire movie from a fictional character he created and portrayed. I remember he stayed in that personna for a long, long time. Even when the movie was out, his appearances on Leno and O'Brian's show were made "in character".
That is what congregations on his speaking tour get - a real life Borat.
And the kiddos at FBCJ will have a blast. Caner will talk about being persecuted, and will drum up the "Turkish, Muslim, immigrant" line, talk about his "hot wife", his "half breed kids", etc. And a good time will be had by all.
Did anyone see this? Sent it to Tom but not sure if he's seen it yet. The guy who was dean of LU's seminary right before Ergun Caner has been forced to step down from the presidency of Tennessee Temple because of plagiarism. (the book was written 15 years ago and actually was used as a textbook at LU according to some)
Former LU Seminary Dean forced to resign from Presidency at Tennessee Temple
WD,
Yeah, I think that's a good comparison-Caner and the Borat character. Both are very entertaining.
It's like Caner is in the entertainment branch of the Baptist world. There are plenty of powerful men in that world, but they took different routes to obtain that power. Maybe if he was promoted as a Christian entertainer instead of a preacher. What do they call him, anyway? I guess he's not really a pastor, since he doesn't have a church. Do they call him an evangelist?
Re the article on the Tennessee Temple president having to resign-the comments are hilarious!
Sharon...I loved #6..."At least I wasn't caught dancing!"
Which reminds me....I saw a dean of one of LU's VERY important schools dancing it up big time at a function. Heh heh
Ergun Caner will be speaking twice in NJ in August if anyone wants to go see if he's telling the same ol' stories:
http://mbchazlet.org/events.shtml
The NJ appearances are by way of DVD:
Len Ferm will be leading the presentation of this DVD series on apologetics from Veritas Evangelical Seminary. The series is based on 1 Peter 3:15: "Sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense (apologetic) to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear." One lesson will be presented each week followed by a time of discussion. Everyone is welcome to attend. For more information, please contact the church office (732-739-1282).
Course Schedule:
July 5: Norman Geisler - Responding to Relativism-The Case for Absolutes
July 12: Gary Habermas - Reliability of the Gospels
July 19: Steven Collins - Archeology Confirms the Reality of the Bible
July 26: William Dembski - Scientific Case for Intelligent Design
Aug 2: Gary Habermas - The Case for the Resurrection of Christ
Aug 9: Ergun Caner - The Secret of Islam
Aug 16: Norman Geisler - If God, Why Evil?
Aug 23: Ergun Caner - Why I Am Not a Muslim
Aug 30: Ron Rhodes - 10 Keys to Answering Cultists at Your Door
Fighting for the Faith: Dr. Ergun Caner (aka Echmed the Fake Terrorist) Reemerges
Starting just after the 17 minute mark. Please, no laughing, it’s serious business.....
Actually, it is very sad.
Strictly speaking Caner was a Turkish citizen by birth (Turkey considers anyone Turkish if a parent, particularly a father, was Turkish; he was not Swedish despite being born there and having a mother who was Swedish though if he were raised there he could have claimed it). He might have lost Turkish citizenship upon becoming a US citizen (I believe Turkish law has changed over the years in this regards); however, if he did not, his children are also Turkish as well as US. However that is a bit like being Irish because one grandparent was Irish (legally correct but not necessarily culturally correct).
From the available evidence, culturally he had some Turkish influence but probably more Swedish/American given that he was mostly raised by his mother and maternal grandmother and in the US though that might depend on how close he was to his father when growing up.
I heard that Ergun Caner is preaching at Cross Church, Ronnie Floyd's church in Arkansas, sometime in July. I don't know why these pastors invite charlatans like Caner to preach behind their pulpits. It's a disgrace. I guess Caner's message of fearing and hating Islam is too important to these pastors, even if it is filled with falsehoods. They know that gullible, uninformed Christians will eat up anything Caner says. These days, it seems the truth doesn't really matter anymore, even behind the pulpit.
The sermon at http://brookwoodchurch.com/ isn't there anymore.
Since, many of you have downloaded/listened to it, could you post the MP3 somewhere?
I knew Caner as an undergraduate at Cumberland College, KY. We knew him only as "Butch". I'm writing this because I was puzzled by his saying (as quoted on this webpage): "Do you know why you can understand me? Seventeen years ago, God got me married to a girl from Brookwood church."
At Cumberland College, Butch spoke perfect, perfect English, without a smidgeon of any sort of accent. That was several years before he met his wife.
Here is a link to a 'sermon' he 'preached' on July 31, 2011. The topic of this talk is Ergun Caner, despite what the title would suggest.
http://canyoncreekbc.org/resources/online-media/audio-sermons/audio/13-the-samaritan-woman.html
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