"You have haters and so do I, we live with them....there are people who on Facebook who make it their living to be flamers and they attack me. I've got people who make a good living attacking me...don't pay attention to those who hate you, this tiny little cadre of people who don't like you. Don't obsess about the people who just live their lives bitterly - they're failures of their own right and that's why they don't like you."--------------
And Sunday he used Floyd's church to once again take a shot at his detractors, and to paint himself as the victim of Internet hate, never bothering to mention his decade of deceit perpetrated in pulpits after 9/11. This is basically the same statement he made last year after being let go by Liberty when he referred to bloggers as "frustrated people in their basement".
What makes his comment so ridiculous, and actually quite sad, is that it came right after one of the points of his sermon where he says "your scars tell your story". Caner called on Ronnie Floyd's church members to be transparent about the failures and the difficulties in their lives - their "scars" - because God could use them to help someone else heal from their wounds if they would only tell their story.
That is a great message, but can't Caner see how hypocritical it is to preach that when he himself doesn't live by it? Why can't he tell people the truth of what happened to him last year, and what caused the pain he went through as his lies told in pulpits were exposed on the Internet causing him to lose his job and suffer embarrassment? Why must he instead turn that story of his "scars", into a complaint about "haters"?
On a positive note, Caner showed in the sermon and in an interview filmed with Floyd's son Saturday, that he is able to tone down the rhetoric about his past, but still has a way to go. No mentions of himself as a towel-head, or about being in Islamic Youth Jihad, or growing up watching American TV in Istanbul, or the many Muslim debates he has spoken at, or the other fibs he told SBC congregations for so long.
But he still insists on introducing himself as "Turkish, immigrant, Yankee" - that is his standard opening line to his audiences. But newsflash: Caner is at best half-Turkish, never lived there; technically he was an "immigrant" as he came here when he was two, but he is not a Yankee. He still calls his kids "half breeds".
And Caner seriously needs to take some time and develop new material. The sermon he preached Sunday was the same sermon he has preached over and over again for two years at various venues. He preached that sermon in 2009 at FBC Jax, if I remember correctly. And the same jokes about his family, marital strife, Facebook, food, etc. are getting old.
If Caner is going to keep speaking at Southern Baptist churches and not apologize for his decade of deceit, the least he can do is stop referring to himself as a victim of "haters". The people who have called for Caner to apologize and to repent don't hate him.
Caner is probably just warming up for his gig with the FBC Jax youth at their middle school and high school camp at the beginning of August. If the congregation at Floyd's church are getting statements about his Internet "haters", one can only imagine what Caner will come up with when the cameras are not rolling and his audience is hundreds of gullible teenagers.
------------------------------
Click here to go to the Cross Church web page where you can watch Caner's 7/18/11 sermon, and his interview with Nick Floyd.
Click here to go to the Cross Church web page where you can watch Caner's 7/18/11 sermon, and his interview with Nick Floyd.
We don't care if he lied.
ReplyDeleteWe all lie.
We don't care if he made up stories.
We have all done that.
We don't care if he stretches the truth.
We want people to get saved and he can get them to the cross!
This man never admitted to lying despite evidence to the contrary. Without repentave there is no remission of sins. 1 John holds bad news for people in this position.
Delete9:31 am
ReplyDeleteThe end is not finished - God is not mocked and in time he will do himself in once again as he won't let it go . . .always on the defense. If you are innocent, you just move on and let it be. What a sorry man who calls himself a preacher of God's word - a liar of all time!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn the interest of full disclosure and transparency, Watchdog, how much did you make in just the last year "attacking and flaming" Ergun Caner?
ReplyDeleteSame amount I did, I bet.
Sounds to me as if Caner is the one who's "obsessed" with people on the internet. Probably pretty chapped that they called him out, too.
Troll, don't include "me" in your "we."
Yes, people make a living off of attacking Caner?
ReplyDeleteNo, he made a living lying in pulplits for a decade.
James White likely lost his job at GG seminary as Caner's friends went after him.
No one made a living off of attacking Caner.
Another lie.
I also found the irony perplexing. He says he wants his mistakes/scars to tell his story, yet I commented on the video and the church shut down their comment section. I just linked to the video of Ergun Caner lying to those Marines.
ReplyDeleteWhat upset me was that those who think that people deserve an honest preacher are "failures".
Anon#1 I hope that you are being sarcastic.
Good call BBOF!
ReplyDeleteWhen did Liberty start firing innocent people like they did Caner? They don't - they had the facts on him!
Caner has a new audience which like a lot of us will believe what he says is truth in the beginning. He's a great comedian and performer and people buy into it.
Wow, that first post is sad. Would you care if he committed adultery (which is, partly, a form of lying)?
ReplyDeleteAnon, I get that you are forgiving, and that is an admirable quality for sure, but what do you not understand about repentance, leadership, etc?
On the other hand, Anon, your post is so blatantly ignorant, that I have to wonder if you're just a troll - one bent on inciting people.
Caner now gets Ronnie Floyd. They deserve each other.
ReplyDeleteWhere can I go sign up to get paid for criticizing Caner? :)
ReplyDeleteLiars in the pulpit...they will pay a heavy price in the end.
ReplyDeleteJudgement will be hard & heavy.
I hope it was worth all the laughs he got.
Why are these people bitter, and why do they consider themselves failures, if they "make a good living attacking" EC? You would think they would be smug, and pleased with themselves, and looking like the cat that swallowed the canary, if they make a "good living" doing something that does not require heavy lifting.
ReplyDeleteTobie,
ReplyDeleteYes and no. Caner's father went to hell. Ergun will be judged, but he most likely will have an eternity to walk it off. Given the ever lasting torment of his father that he likes to lie about, Caner is getting off easy.
Ok, now FBXJax where is my check? Dr. White owes me some vacation hours also.
I have been following Caner on Twitter for a few weeks now. I questioned one of his tweets and he replied to me directly. If I recall correctly he was complaining about "haters" without using that word. His tweets are something to behold. It gives me some insight into what makes this man tick and how deeply disturbed he just may be. God help him.
ReplyDeleteWe don't care if he lied.
ReplyDeleteWe all lie.
We don't care if he made up stories.
We have all done that.
We don't care if he stretches the truth.
We want people to get saved and he can get them to the cross!
TROLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Johnny D.,
ReplyDeleteThat's just the resident troll here. Please try to ignore it.
Has anyone read The Unlikely Disciple by Kevin Roose? He's the young journalist who transferred from Brown University to Liberty for a semester and wrote a book about his experiences there.
ReplyDeleteOn page 132 he describes a much-touted debate between Ergun Caner and a panel of atheists from the Rational Response Squad. (So Caner has debated someone!) Apparently Caner got his head handed to him on a platter. Roose writes:
On Monday night, the radio debate between Dr. Caner and the Rational Response Squad finally comes to pass.
I listened to the debate -- all three hours and forty minutes of it -- and it was time well spent. The Rational Response Squad members, two men and a woman, were just like you'd expect professional atheists to be: exact, articulate, and a little prickly. And Dr. Caner... well, to everyone's surprise, he didn't play the part of the angry fundamentalist. In fact, he seemed somehow too polite, almost wishy-washy. He said things like:
"I like doubt. I think doubt is healthy."
"I wouldn't expect you guys to bow on your knees and accept Jesus."
"There are times when what we call Christianity is unhealthy."
Dr. Caner got a few good points in. He put forth a fairly convincing version of the argument from design (the world is so beautiful and so orderly that it must have been designed by a creator). But ultimately, he was outmatched. The atheists anticipated his arguments and had counterarguments in hand. They knew the Bible inside and out and confronted him with hard-to-spin textual contradictions, like the fact that the account of creation in the first chapter of Genesis differs pretty widely from the account in the second chapter. And although Dr. Caner came up with explanations for the discrepancies, they were hardly rock solid.
Continued...
Continued...
ReplyDelete{One of the author's dorm mates enters.}
"Did you listen?" he asks.
I nod.
"The atheists definitely knew what they were talking about," he says. "I almost don't want to say it, but... they beat him."
"You think so?"
"Yeah, man. If that was a boxing match, I think they won 9-1 or so. Man, that scared me. I'm going to talk to my professors about some of the arguments they made. I don't know what to think right now. That was weird."
He's right. It was weird. In fact, the debate was one of the most bizarre reversals of type I've ever seen. By the end, Dr. Caner had given up so much territory that the atheists were singing his praises. One said, "I'm not a big fan of Liberty University, but in my limited knowledge of it, you're the best thing to ever happen to it." Another said, "You're going to bring down Christianity, so God bless you."
In my mind, the oddest thing about the debate is that it happened at all. An organized debate between a Liberty professor and a group of atheists would never have happened twenty years ago, in large part because Dr. Falwell would never have allowed it. He comes from the old school of hard-line fundamentalism, with a larger-than-life certainty that triumphs by brute force. In that world, what-iffing and problematizing are for pantywaist preachers and theo-babbling ecumenicists. So why the switch? Why did Dr. Falwell, who rules his faculty with an iron fist, condone Dr. Caner's debate? And why did he hire a professor in the first place who believes that "doubt is healthy" and that Christianity can be "unhealthy"?
In recent years, Dr. Falwell has become comfortable bending Liberty's practices to increase enrollment. When he realized that Liberty's strict dress code was pushing prospective Liberty students to less conservative colleges, he loosened it. When Liberty lost students to neighboring schools because it didn't have an engineering department, he commissioned one. And maybe hiring an articulate, edgy, TV-ready theologian like Dr. Caner was another way to beef up Liberty's public profile and bring in more students.
I thought that was interesting.
Caner told me recently that this 'hate' made him closer to God.
ReplyDeleteHe said that when people twist and take his words out of context that he feels like Jesus.
He said his greatest days of ministry are in front of him and one day he will open his own seminary to train Pastors to effectively communicate because most Pastors are very boring and can't preach there way out of a paper bag.
This man is something!
Yeah, I listened to that debate. As a Christian that reads so much atheism, I was astounded by how little he knew about the culture. At the time, I just assumed that he was an expert on Islam and not Atheism.
ReplyDeleteYeah, he is something.
This man is something!
ReplyDeleteTrue dat!
This blog is a perfect example of how Caner knows how to work people. Remember the old saying that bad publicity is still publicity. When you flaunt all your various opinions and hatred toward him, you just increase his influence and size. Just ignore him.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMy whole goal is to warn people. I figure if I am loud enough, more people will listen. This man is turning Christian brains into mush and fools peddle him onto our children.
ReplyDeleteMaybe someone will listen or at least doubt. At this point I am just trying to save those who will listen to their own eyes and ears.
If I were in the audience when Caner said he pays no attention to the flamers and haters on the internet who attack him-I would become very curious re what they are attacking him about exactly.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't anybody become curious? Wouldn't at least the adults go home and google him and try to find out why the haters are hating? By the way, I think calling your critics haters sounds so juvenile. It has no substance. If people are upset, there's usually some reason for it. Find out the reason, then evaluate it from there.
Tom,
ReplyDeleteKudos for sharing needed information about things you have deep interest in and concern for. From reading many of the comments, my question to you is: When does sharing information about these things cross the line into criticism or character defamation from the comment section?
For me, the good you can be doing is smeared with ugly and the outright attack comments which do not honor Christ.
BBC,
ReplyDeleteHere's a very interesting article about the book you mentioned above.
It was in the local Lynchburg, VA paper after the book came out.
An Unlikely Disciple
Just noticed that Stand to Reason posted a short video on tithing the other day on their blog.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more with what Greg Koukl teaches on this subject.
Here is the link;
http://str.convio.net/site/PageServer?pagename=blog_iframe
Scroll down to the bottom of the page.
I'm not sure who makes, not just a living, but a good living off "attacking" Caner. How would he know who lives their lives bitterly?
ReplyDeleteThese are dishonest accusations if he is speaking to or about certain people. And if speaking generally, they are at best inaccurate.
I have a bit of a hard time swallowing the immigrant line. Since he moved here at such a young age his cultural exposure would have been American so being an immigrant would be a moot point.
As far as truth in preaching, Haddon Robinson On Truth In Sermon Illustrations. He said in part -
If a congregation suspects that we will lie to make a point, they have good reason to believe we will also lie to make a convert. (Con't->)
careful WD, Ergun may call out a Jihad against the WD
ReplyDeleteI would like to see Tom Rich and Caner in a room alone for a while. Just imagine the things that could come out of that meeting. At least they would be face to face and not hurling insults at each other over the internet.
ReplyDelete"When does sharing information about these things cross the line into criticism or character defamation from the comment section?"
ReplyDeleteAs long as E. Michael Caner continues to teach in a classroom, stand behind a pulpit, and/or make appearances at youth camps.
Can't speak for others, but I will continue to raise an outcry against this charlatin as long as he has any public role in the church. When Caner sits down, shuts up, and is never heard from again, then I will cease making public comments about him.
If Caner was in ANY other type of livelihood, his decade-long campaign of lies, deceit, and outright fraud would make him unemployable. It is a disgrace to the modern church that stupid, Scripturally-ignorant 'christians" allow him a public platform.
Have you called Liberty and asked any questions? I have and they gave me an earful.
ReplyDeleteThe word in JerryLand is that Caner was lazy, rude, and very undisciplined. Always late and always mouthy about EVERYTHING! (exact quote from a department head)
He demanded more money and they cut him loose. They were tired of his lies and they saw the money demand as a way out.
He is not repentant, he will never acknowledge his lies, he is very bitter especially against Bloggers.
This from a former co-laborer at Liberty as told to me and if I reveal my name that will tip his identity.
This man is making $1500 speaking to your kids and is exactly what you do not want your kids to become.
$1500 is too low. My guess of the honoraria is around $4k to $6k just for one sermon. And more for summer camps.
ReplyDeleteAny man who could stand in front of roomful of Marines and lie the way he did, is shameful.
ReplyDeleteHe actually stood there claiming to know something of Muslim culture and trying to tell those Marines how they should respond with some cultural sensitivity.
Problem is, he could have very well put some of these Marines in an untenable position because they believed Caner.
As a U.S. Navy Chief who did my time in the gulf, I will state straight up that Caner is a liar. Muslim culture in Bahrain is very different than Saudi Arabia or Iraq.
Until Caner repents of having put our service men and women in harms way, I will speak out against him and his carefully crafted house of lies.
I will send an e-mail to Ronnie Floyd's church and show them just what a liar Caner is. They should disassociate from him and I'd bet if most of the congregation knew the truth, they'd likely run him out on a rail. It's no longer fashionable to spit on servicemenbers and all the Christians I know give great respect to them. I am grateful for the truth.
Here's Ergun Caner giving his interview about his past to
ReplyDeleteDr. Nick Floyd interviews Dr. Ergun Caner
"Provost and VP of Academic Affairs at Arlington Baptist College,
about Islam and the End Times."
Leave it to a Navy CPO to have a well-reasoned, rational argument, based on experience. No emotion, no hyperbole, just fact. That's why I always trusted Chiefs to make sure the job was done and done right. You can bet she will send that email to Ronnie Floyd. Let's follow the Chief's lead and fill the church inbox to overflowing. Thanks, Katie...sorry, Chief.
ReplyDeleteI've heard the going rate for the mega pastors is $2000 for a Sunday sermon. Caner probably got about that for speaking at Floyd's church.
ReplyDeleteWhat does he get for speaking at camps?
Don't know.
Thank you Katie for your comments and expressing your outrage so well. Sending letters to Floyd won't do any good. Caner is good friends with Nick Floyd - they know all about Caner and are part of the rehabilitation of Caner's reputation.
I still say the best way is to shine the light on the Internet so that lay people can know the truth. The Floyds will never tell their peeps the truth about Caner - it has to come from outside sources.
Other Tom, well said.
He'll always have a pulpit because we do not hold our superstars to any form of accountability.
ReplyDeleteThen again, the fact that we as a convention view some pastors as superstars compared to other pastors is a problem in of itself too.
If you look at many of these megachurches, you'll find that the oversight and checks/balances found in many mid to small sized churches is blatantly absent. That right there ought to be sending out warning flags to believers because the oversight and checks/balances that could be used against laity is there.
The problem is that this isn't going away. Pastors coming fresh out of seminary are taught to be in awe of these men and their peers found in the large corner office of the seminary. They're taught to model their ministries after these men rather than after Jesus and the disciples. They're taught that the Brunsons, Youngs, and Nobles of the world have it right and that the success of your ministry is directly proportional to the size of your congregation and the model of the car in your driveway.
So, until we have another major shift of Conservative Resurgence proportions, this is going to be the norm. You will have pastors who view themselves exempt from the sins that they berate us with each and every week.
Under no circumstances should lying, deception, or any other SINFUL action be tolerated from behind the pulpit. With whom much is given, much is required. Christ has given these men charge over those who claim Christ as their Lord and Savior, and with that gift, there is much in the way of expectations. However, since we've grown accustomed to explaining sin away rather than confronting it, I'm not surprised that its now infecting the pulpits in America.
Watchdog, you need to promote McGoldrick's book on baptist successionism. I have been noticing that the Baptist Identity is really promoting the idea of baptists existing before the reformation. I had no idea hoe many ministers believe the Trail of Blood is legitimate. The Trail of Blood incorporates many sects that denied the sufficiency of the atonement.
ReplyDeleteMy teen heard Dr Caner at camp and was very moved by him. I appreciate him for spending time with our teens.
ReplyDeleteMy son said that Dr Caner was so funny and then very serious and he had never heard a speaker like this before. I googles his name and saw this blog come up and was shocked at some of the thongs I am reading here.
This man is close to God. Be careful, I don't think you should mess with Gods man.
He is sacrificing to help our kids and I am one Mom that really thankful for him.
He could be doing other things but he is giving of his time at camp, You critics are not out there at camp.
When he speaks near here again, I am taking all my friends to see him because he is doing Gods work in an amazing way.
Last Anon, do not take this the wrong way. When he was lying regularly, he treated me the same way. I understand how you feel. I am sorry. He is really good at what he does.
ReplyDeleteAnon 11:47 - I do understand. He is a very talented, and entertaining personality.
ReplyDeleteI saw him preach in November 2001 when he came to my church right after 9/11. He was SO captivating, he had us eating out of his hand. He told us how he was raised in Europe, how he was trained in Islamic Youth Jihad, how he was even "trained to do that which was done on 11 September." He had us all convinced he was a terrorist who was saved just in the nick of time before he himself committed a terrorist act.
My son was 11 at the time. He remembered him. We heard him almost on an annual basis. We loved Ergun and laughed at all of his jokes.
But when we heard that his ministry as "Ergun Caner" after 9/11 was based on lies - that he was not at all what he told us in that first sermon, we felt like idiots. He duped us.
Doesn't negate his message or the power of the gospel. But he was a bald-faced liar. And he used our pulpit, and our pastor, and the tragedy of 9/11 to propel himself to instant stardom.
Then when I heard he did it all over the country, even going so far as to speak "fake Arabic", and even going so far as to lie to our troops, I decided I would use the blog to get the word out to unsuspecting folks like yourself.
Your son perhaps is being taught that what makes a good preacher is someone who is entertaining, who is funny, and who can tell tall tales. That is dangerous ground.
If Ergun were to come out and ask for forgiveness from the Christians he duped for 9 years, and he used that "scar" to tell kids what NOT to do, I could understand. But I'm afraid he is once again using our churches, and I am sad that preachers and parents are giving him the audience to further tell his tales and make himself the victim, when he was the perpetrator.
Legally speaking he was Turkish until he became a US citizen due to the way citizenship laws work in Turkey and Sweden (and depending on the quirks of the laws his sons might have a claim to Turkish citizenship). However the cultural influences seem to be very little (does he even speak much Turkish?). I suspect he is allowing the confusion of culturally Turkish versus legally Turkish to mislead people.
ReplyDeleteIf he lies or distorts about some things, how do you trust anything he says? This is the trouble with people that place themselves behind the pulpit and then don't speak complete truth. I don't expect the preacher to be a perfect person. I just expect that what he is saying, to the best of his knowledge, is truth. The message of The Gospel stands on it's own. I don't understand why we mere mortals feel the constant need to improve or embellish scripture. And when they tell an untruth, especially when they knowingly do it, the message of The Gospel is ruined. It's like a nurse administering a life saving medication through a tainted and infected needle and syringe. I don't care how much you love the preacher, how dynamic and entertaining his delivery is, when the preacher is not honest, God will not be a part of it.
ReplyDeleteTom,
ReplyDeleteI never saw a response and you do not have to respond but I did think I asked a fair question. Let me ask it again.
Kudos for sharing needed information about things you have deep interest in and concern for. From reading many of the comments, my question to you is: When does sharing information about these things cross the line into criticism or character defamation from the comment section?
For me, the good you can be doing is smeared with ugly and the outright attack comments which do not honor Christ.
Gee, I think there is a ton of criticism going on here. Most of it is healthy criticism. Sometimes it gets ugly, but that's ok.
ReplyDeleteDefamation? Not sure. Have any examples you want to offer? You brought it up, so I'll give you the forum here to teach us about what might be defamation of character on a blog.
Go ahead, you have the floor.
"For me, the good you can be doing is smeared with ugly and the outright attack comments which do not honor Christ."
ReplyDeleteJuly 21, 2011 10:19 AM
I just don't get comments like this, especially after the senior Pastor called out a member of his church a sociopath in a public newspaper - Mac Brunson has made a lot of comments about inividuals that does not honor Christ.
Nothing on this blog even comes close to attacking Brunson like that - I wouldn't even publically call a blood member of my family that.
Some definitions may be appropriate. Slander and Libel must be false statements in print or speech. In the case of a celebrity like Caner, they must be maliciously intentional false statements. If it is true, it cannot be slander or libel.
ReplyDeleteDefamation is a different creature. Defamation doesn't have to be false, it can simply be unjust. One can defame a character by making true statements about someone unjustly. In summary, if the statement is false it is defamation. However even if the statement is true, it can still be defamation if used unjustly.
I think Tom has been careful to be both true and just.
Read Genesis 12:11-13. Abram lied! Flat out lied!
ReplyDeleteGod blessed him.
Ergun followed in Abram's footsteps.
Yes, he lied.
But just like Abram, Ergun is bringing Glory to God thrill his lies.
We have a huge God who does not not this Blog or you.
He is sovereign and has predestined Ergun to be an instrument just like Abram.
Cal me a troll, but the fact is u am not a troll, I am Truth!
Greybeard,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your kind words. You surely understand the culture of Navy Chiefs. I'm well aware that most people don't understand it all. We rarely sit around in the Goatlocker talking, talking, talking about a problem. We set out to fix problems and we rarely fail. Yes, I did send an e-mail to Floyd and I also provided a copy to the Commandant of the Marine Corps. I won't win this battle but I can keep pushing and I will. Sadly, the Marine Corps did not vet Caner so some of the blame can be firmly attached to them. If I know anything about the Marine Corps, they will not make this mistake again.
Tom,
Yes, Floyd won't care, but it will remind him that there are many Christians who know the truth about Caner. I did ask him if he served the God of truth or the God of lies. My guess is the latter.
Anon 11:47,
Would you care to ask your son if he learned one of Caner's new additions to the Christian dictionary? Look at the footage of Caner speaking to the marines. He thought so little of them, that he came up with the word "mangina". Enjoy and then rethink what kind of person should be speaking to your child. Caners remarks were crude, unseemly and highly offensive to women. Is that what you want your child to learn? I don't think so. God extends unimagenable grace to us. If Caner ever repents and apologizes, the great majority of us would extend forgiveness to him. But the sin of pride is deeply entrenched in him. It's like watching a train wreck.
'I just don't get comments like this, especially after the senior Pastor called out a member of his church a sociopath in a public newspaper - Mac Brunson has made a lot of comments about inividuals that does not honor Christ.'
ReplyDeleteBrunson was completely out of line in such a comment.
'Nothing on this blog even comes close to attacking Brunson like that - I wouldn't even publically call a blood member of my family that.'
I wouldn't use Brunson as my standard meter. If Christ were the standard would it make a difference?
'I think Tom has been careful to be both true and just.'
I addressed my question to Tom because this is his blog. My concern was not over his blog but the many comments being made.
shut UP 7/21 at 11:00 am. STOP MOCKING GOD.
ReplyDeleteI think Anon 11:00 am made a good point. If you're chosen of God, it doesn't really matter if you're a jerk.
ReplyDeleteIf you're chosen, you're chosen.
Jacob over Esau-"Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated", etc., etc., etc.
And once again Calvinism rears it's ugly head. "For God so loved the world that WHOSOEVER...".
ReplyDeleteShouldn't those whom declare themselves men of God exemplify the teachings of Christ?
ReplyDeleteWould you put your life savings into a trust fund being run by someone from Arthur Anderson?
Would you continue to use the same auto repair shop even after you know that they pad the charges for extra money?
How many here still cheer for Michael Vick?
How many here think about the awesome things that Nixon did in foreign policy or do you go straight for Watergate?
So if you hold all of these SECULAR examples to such high standards, why don't we hold our pastors to at least the same standard?
We literally hold our government officials to higher standards than our pastors in the pulpits of our church.
Something is dead wrong here.
I can't get the vimeo video of the Caner/Floyd interview to run.
ReplyDelete*1280x720, 125.67MB
* Uploaded Mon July 18, 2011
* Sorry, not available for download.
Does "not available for download" mean that it can't been seen?
For anyone who wants to know, I got into an edit war with DSEppling the Executive Vice President of Ergun Caner Ministries at Wikipedia. I never said that Ergun lied that would not be neutral. I try to be fair. Here is the page as it will be frozen until July 31.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergun_Caner
Bennett Willis said...
ReplyDelete"I can't get the vimeo video of the Caner/Floyd interview to run."
This was working
Dr. Nick Floyd interviews Dr. Ergun Caner
'Sometimes it gets ugly, but that's ok.'
ReplyDeleteIt is? By what standard is ugly criticism ok?
I'll find time to look back and find a few defamation statements. It will be a few days due to an already full schedule. Until then can you respond to my question above?
Moses, the controverted Wikipedia article says that Ergun's father "was the architect who built a mosque in Columbus." Has that been verified? I seem to recall Mirele, a blogger, looked into this last year and posted pictures showing that this mosque was an existing structure which was renovated, not new construction. However, when I tried to get back on Mirelle's Miscellany to verify my recollection, I find I've been disinvited. A person can 'build' a mosque or a church in various senses, but when you hear that an 'architect' built, you think of cranes and girders.
ReplyDeleteFredericka,
ReplyDeleteI do not know. I only made additions about Ergun's mother from Unveiling Islam; Ergun's father from Emir's account of their disowning; the information about the Marine videos, and the Bristol prayer summit.
I left the deleting to DSEppling who would delete half the page repeatedly. I definitely was not going to delete anything that I could not prove was false. Apparently Ergun has been trying to wipe the page for months now.
DSEppling? Hmmmm. Didn't he grow up at FBC? Seriously.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was this guy too.
ReplyDeletehttp://law.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=22651
I am serious. The man is a full blown narcissist. He is delusional. He has no sense of reality. He is like many on our "christian stages" who would have found a stage somewhere if there had been no easy followers in the church.
ReplyDelete"He demanded more money and they cut him loose. They were tired of his lies and they saw the money demand as a way out.:
ReplyDeleteNote: They did not see the LIES as a reason to cut him loose.
Says a lot about Liberty
He is sacrificing to help our kids and I am one Mom that really thankful for him.
ReplyDeleteHow is this person helping the kids, I don’t see him as funny but only a social engineer who needs help. The kids should be learning how to read the bible so they can have a spine in this homosexual planet. Instead their instead learning how to laugh and learn how to lie.
He is sacrificing to help our kids ...
ReplyDeleteHow is Caner sacrificing? Is he working pro bono at the summer camps?
Anon 4:22 - stop baiting, and just tell us what you think.
ReplyDeleteTeach us: what criticism here is not ok, and what is ok, and what has crossed the line into defamation.
Please, tell us when you have the time available.
You have the floor.
Anon 2:07 pm.
ReplyDeleteAnd the next word is?
You hit the nail on the head, Watchdog.
ReplyDeleteWhat a perfect opportunity for Mr. Caner to use his "scars" to apologize and tell the people at Cross Church his story of the mistakes he made and what he learned from them.
But he didn't.
Instead, he turns Paul's message into a form of justification for ignoring sin and accountability. Caner is basically saying, "You know all those people that try to call you out on your sin? Well, just ignore them. They are just a bunch of haters trying to bring you down."
Well, those "haters" are trying to help him see the truth. Those "haters" are trying to protect people from his lies and deception.
But that is what a lot of, if not most, Christians do. We twist scripture to justify our actions. We create God in our own image to make us feel better about ourselves.
Another interesting thing I noticed about his sermon was that he completely ignored the topic he was supposed to preach on: "Are We Nearing the Coming of the Lord" and "Islam and the End Times." I wonder why?