"Did you catch that? There are a lot of people in Memphis today, the 'curse' is upon their finances and they think they can't afford to tithe when they don't understand that's a lie from the devil and they're in bondage and they can't afford not to tithe. They're doing the very thing that is cursing their finances because they're stealing from God....there are too many Christians living in stolen houses, they've stolen that money from God. They're driving stolen cars, they're eating stolen groceries, they're wearing stolen jewelry and stolen clothes, they send their children to school with stolen money. Don't steal from God." Steve Gaines, 5/22/11----------
When will the modern day mega churches stop lying to their congregations about what the bible says about Christian financial stewardship?While Christians should be the picture of generosity to their culture, mega church pastors model the exact opposite behavior by greedily demanding 10% of the gross income of all parishioners, even the elderly on fixed income - and they have no fear of God in daring to use scriptures as a weapon against Christians.
The quote above, and the video below demonstrate just how shameless these preachers are getting. Have they no fear of the God they preach about? Steve Gaines of Bellevue Baptist Church doesn't even cut any slack for those on "fixed incomes", saying that it is fair that everyone, rich and poor alike, give 10% of their income. To the contrary, the lower the income, the deeper 10% cuts into the basic needs of the family. 10% to a poor family can hurt badly, while 10% of a rich person like a mega church pastor doesn't touch their basic needs. But Gaines himself being a wealthy mega church pastor, you wouldn't expect him to understand.
Gaines teaches what guys like Ed Young, Perry Noble, Robert Morris, and Mac Brunson te
ach: that the finances of Christians who don't tithe are under "the curse" placed by God, that God will send some sort of holy devourer - maybe God's angels named Moose and Rocco - to cause financial loss if you don't tithe. Gaines even says that people who are struggling financially are most often struggling precisely BECAUSE they do not tithe. Same nonsense that Paige Patterson preached to his students: I'm blessed because I tithe so much money, you college kids are poor because you don't. And they wonder why the secular media looks at Christians as though we are ignoramuses? They see our most prominent, successful preachers preaching illogical, non-biblical poppycock, and we tolerate it!But this is the new trend these days with the tithing doctrine: to tell people that their money is cursed when they earn it, UNTIL they stroke a check to their local church, in the amount of 10% of their gross (not net) income to their church in an undesignated fashion.
It is a perversion of the gospel itself. The gospel says we are born sinners and we are under a curse, and we are in need of redemption, which is found at the moment we accept Jesus as our Savior, then the curse is removed and we have a relationship with God and eternal life. You give yourself to God, and you have salvation. The new tithing perversion says that at the moment you earn money, it is cursed, and it needs to be "redeemed" to have the curse removed. How do you remove the curse? How is it redeemed?
It is redeemed by YOU....like you gave yourself to God, you give your money to God, and the curse on your money is removed.
But there is a catch - to give your tithe to God so the curse on the rest is removed, you must give it to the church. You can't give any of the first 10% of your charitable giving to any missionary, or to the Red Cross, or even to your struggling neighbor or relative. Nope, it all must come to the church for church leaders to dole out, else all of your other money is cursed.
As Frank Viola says, this makes the gospel "bad news" for the poor. Your soul was redeemed by Jesus, but the blessings God has provided in the form of money for you and your family is actually cursed. And you have to do the hard work of redeeming your finances by forking 10% of it over to your church.
Gaines tells his congregation how he counsels people who have financial difficulties:
"I talk to people all the time, and they're having struggles in their finances. The first thing I ask them: 'do you tithe to your church?'...almost all the time they say 'no' if they're struggling with their finances. I say 'that's where you start.' They always say 'I can't afford to'. I say 'you can't afford not to, because until you do, the curse is on your finances.' "Unbelievable. A pastor who is supposed to be a loving shepherd giving wrong advice, speaking of "the curse" that God has placed on their finances, blaming financial struggles they may have on their failure to fork over 10% to his church. This is a lie. It is not biblical, it is not even logical, and it is not borne out in anyway in the experience of Christians. Total rubbish, a ploy to attract more revenue from gullible people. It is a form of spiritual abuse.
The irony in all this: if there is any stealing from God going on in churches, it is the mega church pastors earning hefty salaries for themselves and their family members on staff (Gaines has multiple family members collecting paychecks from Bellevue) living lavish lifestyles.
Steve Gaines: look at yourself in the mirror, pal. You just might be driving a stolen car and living in a stolen car in God's eyes.
Here is a scripture for Gaines and the other tithing gospel teachers:
"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23
“The dictionary defines the con artist as “someone who tricks or deceives people in order to get money from them, or a swindler who exploits the confidence of his victim." Con artists tend to be excellent conversationalists; they exploit our human weaknesses like greed, dishonesty, vanity, compassion or just a naïve expectation of good faith. “Through covetousness they will use you for gain with well-turned words.” [2Pe 2:3]”
ReplyDeletehttp://chris-thebereans.blogspot.com/2009/09/defiance-pt-13-profiling-persecutor.html
Apostle Paul warned christians about these wolves 1 Timothy 6:5 .
ReplyDeleteWhat he is teaching says that Jesus did not redeem us from the curse of the law. We have to pay for the curse to stop by giving him money.
A liar and a thief just like satan and he is behind the pulpit ,Run for your lives
Two points:
ReplyDelete1) He said that Jesus believed in storehouse tithing right from the start. I don't see where he ever supports that. He just goes into the Malachi "Will a man rob God" passage. Malachi was written before Christ, so he needs to show where Jesus affirmed this. I can just hear people quoting the Matthew 23:23 passage now. That was pre-cross so of course Christ would have affirmed it for people still under Law.
2) He says that the local church is more effective than any other ministry! What?! I don't know if this guy is a southern baptist, but it sounds like it. Let me be clear, I know of some very godly men that are southern baptists that are having an impact in their community. But according to a recent survey, it took 49 southern baptists to baptize one person in a year at a cost of over $35,000 per baptism! It blows my mind that he can say what he said.
Perhaps the greatest reason you have a problem with tithing is that you don't do it. Time to move on to another obsession.
ReplyDeleteShould what one gives to his or her church be determined by what is left over?
ReplyDeleteWhen someone says, "I can only give 3% because that is what is available after I make two car payments, pay for private school for my kids, make sure enough is budgeted for eating out during the week..." is this being a good steward or a cheerful giver?
Why is it for many what is given to the work of the Lord (I can hear it now, that all it does is pay for big salaries to undeserving people)? Why not find a church you can love, support financially with greatness of your first fruits instead of the leftovers?
I think there is something worse going on than people giving or not giving 10% and that is giving less than our first and best.
If FBCJ, or any church you refuse to support with financial generosity, has leadership you can't support with generous giving,then how can you support it with your weekly presence?
OK, let's hear the whining about "It was my church first..."
'When will the modern day mega churches stop lying to their congregations about what the bible says about Christian financial stewardship?'
When will this blog address the priority in our giving, not the lesser is ok spin?
Thanks again Watchdog for your spotlighting of this issue.
ReplyDeleteWe all must search and know the Scriptures, and by the grace of GOD, withstand and resist these men at every turn. However, this leaven has already spread throughout much of the SBC and American church culture as a whole. Many of the men leading these institutions are autocrats and will not allow others to hold them accountable............actually the majority of professing believers, in various churches, don't have the fortitude to confront these men and hold them to sound doctrine...... because most people desire to be approved by men and are scared of being labeled, disliked, and shunned.
This sort of sophistry in any church is a good indication of spiritual danger, and genuine Christians should never consider yoking together with these "ministries."
These men evidently do not hear the Law--it kills! You gotta keep the whole thing to live. This is not Spirit led teaching. See Galatians.
"Storehouse tithing" is a denial of the Gospel and the sufficiency of the once for all sacrifice of Christ.
The arrogance of these "pastors," (and believe me, I know first hand also--having recently left an SBC church), to teach this non-Christian doctrine, bringing their people back into bondage, nauseates me.
Jonathan
It is between each believer and God how the matter of giving is worked out.
ReplyDeleteWe can sit in the pew and accept this kind of preaching, sit in the pew and NOT accept this kind of preaching, or vote with our feet and abandon this kind of preaching.
Changing these guys and what they say - that is one option we DO NOT have. It is pointless to think we can.
But I can tell you this - anytime giving is commanded or taught in the Bible, it is NOT done through berating and belittling.
'The arrogance of these "pastors," (and believe me, I know first hand also--having recently left an SBC church), to teach this non-Christian doctrine, bringing their people back into bondage, nauseates me. "
ReplyDeleteJonathan
Couldn't agree more with your summary - these preachers are so greedy & consumed with talking about money. We left FBCJ because of the bully, arrogance of Brunson who every Sunday stands in the pulpit berating & scolding the very people who give him his paycheck. Preachers like him & Gaines leaves me nauseates me as well.
A tither whose finances are not cursed but blessed and now goes to the non-greedy churches! Never again to a mega church.
Maybe he is the one guilty of robbing and doing as he spoke of in his rants to those in the pews and maybe it is his way of confessing.
ReplyDeleteI believe he know perfectly well how to say what he says because he does exactly what he speaks against. That is why he thinks he knows what he is ranting about!
Confessions is good for the heart you know Steve and all your discipled followers.
I believe in tithing and not ashamed of it. At the same point we abuse it to beat the people into filling the bank account of the church.
ReplyDeleteNow by Gaines own definition we will have say that there are alot ot churches worshipping in stolen buildings and serving stolen Lord's Suppers. The Bible says if you see a brother in need and you have the means to help and you do nothing about it then brother you better watch out. The bottome line is that these churches are beating the tithing drum and building bigger buildings and equating more $$$=the moving of the Holy Spirit in our ministry. Let me refresh my mind on another verse in the book of Acts. Simon wanted to buy the power of the Holy Spirit. It ain't going to happen was the response. Churches are building their bank accounts but it seems like they only help themselves and not people in need. I know I have two topics here but they go hand and hand. You can not buy the power of the HS in you ministry and if you are asking you people to give and you are not using for God then caution to you. The buck does not stop at your church bank account.
Go to India and preach "Tithing" or North korea, or most African countries!
ReplyDeleteAnyone else see a problem with that?
Even most Asian countries
As a former member of Gardendale while Gains was there, I can also remember when Gains made the statement that he doubted that anyone was saved if they refused to raise their arms and "praise" God during the service.
ReplyDeleteIt seems really crazy and unbiblical but the fact is that tithing really does work.
ReplyDeleteI did not think I would get anything out of giving my money to the Church.
Wow, was I wrong!
I got my wife back, my car back, and my Trailer back all in one week!
I can't wait until tomorrow...my dog has been missing and I bet he comes back too!
Anon 10:09 says:
ReplyDelete"If FBCJ, or any church you refuse to support with financial generosity, has leadership you can't support with generous giving,then how can you support it with your weekly presence?"
Amen. That is what more and more people are doing. They are checking out of these churches. Their pastors are piling up the guilt for giving something less than 10%. A friend of mine was giving about 2 or 3% a month which was sacrificial for them in their circumstances, and he was joyful and happy to give. But when the arrogant pastor said that anything less than 10% was a blemished gift that puts the church at risk, and then that pastor questioned the manhood of non-tithers, he stopped giving completely, and I mean completely. He attended for a year or so before leaving finally, and gave nothing. He gave to other charities and Christian causes. Said he didn't want to hurt his church by bringing a blemished gift that wasn't wanted.
Bring your tithe....do not question where it is to be spent. When Gaines came to Bellevue, he wanted to teach his flock how to pray.....I guess Dr. Rogers did not instruct them well on the art of praying. Then, Gaines decided to build a building specifically for prayer....Money was given for the prayer building...and yet, it was not built years later. I wonder if they put the money to better use... since there is so much need in Memphis....but, don't question the Shepherd....and, for heaven's sake, don't ask his salary....the irony is that there are those who sit in the pews no matter what. Somehow, I think going to a quiet room in your own home, on your knees, might be pleasing to God...
ReplyDeletehope&faith 6:05pm. You are right. Scripture tells us when we pray to go into our own closet. There is this new doctrine "I can do all things through Christ when I give 10% of my gross pay weekly". Do you notice some additional words here? This is what has happened since the Garden of Eden. Pastors adding or taking away from scripture. Those that see it leave and are better off spiritually since the Bible tells us to not be fooled. How can two walk together if they are not in agreement. People have wised up and see what the modern day church has brought upon itself. One additional point. I suppose the 20 million people unemployed don't tithe either? Worse and worse. Stay at home and study the Bible for yourself.
ReplyDeletehope and faith,
ReplyDeleteIf you should dare to "question" the "shepherd" or have the temerity to tell him, based on the Scripture, that he is wrong........you will have his Pharisaical credentials leveraged against you, blind submission demanded of you, be accused of pride and rebellion, charged with past sins, threatened with church discipline...... you will find out that most of those that claim to "love" you will abandon you because they were only "fairweather" friends.
Sad to say, it has been my experience that many of these institutional churches revolve around the "cult of personality," and when the individual at the center (senior pastor or teaching elder)decides you gotta go, even being on the side of the Lord Jesus Christ and having approached him biblically does not matter. (Oh yeah, even when you confront him and he acknowledges sin, everyone else will still be led to believe that you are a "troubler" and your departure is all your fault).
The level of betrayal that I have personally experience from so-called "Christians," in my life, is astounding--all of it over doctrine, and not personal issues. Once you disagree, they look at you as a threat, and your days are numbered.
I will never again, by the grace of GOD, be a part of another dead institution with it's legalistic leaders and incompetent "Christians."
I have, however, been in *one* fellowship, and only one, where the man that was the teaching pastor was obviously graced by the Holy Spirit to function in that capacity. I knew him, and still do, to be godly and patient man. So I know that healthy churches do exist, but they are rare.
Jonathan
I believe that God looks at the heart of the believer(Born Again)when they give money to help support their pastor who feeds them good food from the Word of God. We are not under the old covenant of giving a tenth to the temple....That was back when the Levites were the priests and relied on the tithe for their living and for the festivals in the Temple because they couldn't work or own land or a home.....So, to what I understand, today we give to the church because we are to pay the teacher who TEACHES the WORD...and not just what they want to say from the stage area.....God loves a cheerful giver, whether it is in the confines of a church bldg. or sowing elsewhere.....Maybe it is time that all believers become good Bereans like Paul said we should be like: they studied the Word to make sure that what was being said from the stage was truth..not just because someone said so...
ReplyDeleteI have stayed out of the argument for a while but I think Randy Alcorn speaks to this subject matter very well.
ReplyDeleteHe says:To me, giving less than a tithe is simply not an option. Someday I’m going to stand before God and give an account of my life (Romans 14:12). On that day I do not want to have to explain why, being indwelt with the Holy Spirit and having lived in the most affluent nation in human history, I failed to give at the very minimal level of those who did not have the indwelling Spirit and owned far less than I.
Maybe you believe the tithe was an Old Testament standard, and we’re no longer under the law but under grace, so tithing isn’t a requirement for us. Okay. Let’s say you’re right. Now, do you really think God doesn’t have a will for New Testament Christians when it comes to giving, or that he has lowered the bar of what he expects of us? Since studies show the average Christian givers just over 2% of his income to the Lord, does that mean that grace is only a fifth as effective as the law? Or is something fundamentally wrong with our approach to giving? Are we failing to learn what real grace giving means because we children of grace are failing to start at the minimum level God started his children under the Old Covenant?
The concepts behind the firstfruits—the ownership and worthiness of God and the servanthood and indebtedness of man—are as true today as they were in the Old Testament. And surely the gratitude of God’s people should be far greater on this side of Calvary than the other!
I hope this helps in your debate. Just sayin.
There's a woman in my church who had major surgery and was in danger of losing her home because she was out of work.
ReplyDeleteThe church "benevolence department" paid her rent but have browbeaten her so severely and belittled her so much that she does not even want to come back to the church. This is not the first story I've heard like this. This woman is a former professional, not some vagrant or freeloader looking to live on handouts the rest of her life.
They are messing with someone who is new to the faith as well as a widow, an orphan and a poor person.
They have also told her to "sever all ties" with certain people at the church (wonder who that might be), and these are people who are actually trying to help her with more than just one month's rent. They are trying to get her into a light JOB or get some form of government assistance temporarily so she doesn't have to end up on the street.
Yes -- this is the kindness you get from these church staff people. They NEVER give to help others, but only to see what how badly they can browbeat money and every ounce of self-esteem out of people. Then they enjoy the bloody treasure with their family and friends by giving them jobs, ect. and having grown kids who don't even have to work.
Then they'll turn around and tell someone who has no family and just had major surgery that she is cursed if she doesn't give 10 percent to them.
I used to think they were just greedy, now I see how evil and sick they are.
Mind you, this is an extremely upscale area. And this is how the disadvantaged are treated.
As heartlessly as possible.
This preacher is trying to control people through making them afraid of a "curse." Is he a gypsy, a witch, a fortune-teller, gazing into a crystal ball and seeing, "Aha, I see that there's a curse upon you! In order to remove this curse, you must give me 10% of your income! Then the curse will be gone!"
ReplyDeleteThis would only work with those subject to such suggestions. And maybe people could point out the verse about true religion-which is to help widows and orphans and visit prisoners. Or in the OT, doesn't it say what is required of man-to walk justly, be merciful, and walk humbly with God?
Regarding Randy Alcorn's view that that grace giving is less effective than tithing, I disagree with his subset from which he bases his statistics. He seems to think that all people who attend church are Christians. He then applies the fact that grace giving is less effective based on church membership data.
ReplyDeleteHas it ever occurred to him or anyone else that the reason that "grace giving" is so low is because so few have truly experienced grace? If giving were the only area where "Christians" were struggling, I'd think he would have a point. But these "Christians" are also struggling with keeping their marriages together, internet pornography, and just about every other vice that "non-Christians" struggle with. Therefore, we don't need to go back to the Law, but instead preach Jesus!
I respect Randy, and generally agree with him on most things, but on this I have to disagree with him. I still believe him to be a brother in Christ, who has a very effective ministry.
"If we go back to the beginnings of things, we shall always find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that imagination, rapture and deception embellished them; that weakness worships them; that custom spares them; and that tyranny favors them in order to profit from the blindness of men."-- Baron d'Holbach
ReplyDeleteFrom Change Worth Making Blog,
ReplyDeletehttp://changeworthmaking.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/the-deeper-issues-in-giving/
Actually the OT never teaches or alludes to paycheck tithing and advocate taking care of one's family first then the market produce is tithed. Why is it their not teaching proof texting in seminaries anymore? It was the food that was being sent to market AFTER taking care of his family was tithed. I had minister confronted recently about this anonymously by someone and the congregants laughed. I knew what they laughed about...it must be because that person criticized "had a greed issue." Those who criticize tithing are accused of it and those who teach it can be false accused of it as well. 80% of baptist ministers actually struggle financially and some of them teach it. Let's get back to some grace on this issue.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe intelligent people listen to this crap or that the "ministers" preach like they are in front of idiots. They are so arrogant.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad my friends who have chosen to stay in the Baptist church use their offerings wisely by giving to the individuals they see in need or to the organizations of their choice. IMO these guys and the SBC aren't trust worthy to make the desicions about how to use the money.
Leaving Baptisland was one of the best decisions I've ever made. You would be stunned and amazed how clearly I can see all this nonsense now. It takes some time, but the exact same "teaching" I used to fall for is now crystal clear...scam artists trying to get in your head with GUILT to make you hand the $ over. (and to follow other ridiculous rules, making puppets out of us)
ReplyDeleteI tithe and now I have an opportunity to help run the Church.
ReplyDeleteYou can't have a voice if you don't give and our Pastor told us straight up that he is checking Tithing records.
I love Jesus and our Church and to have input, I must tithe.
I fine with it but the last week of the month of the month is tight because I only get paid once a month.
I guess God is fine with it too because every Church is just like this. My buddy at his job said the Elders at his church had to submit a W2 tom the Pastor every year to verify the tithing records.
Guilting the poor into giving 10% to the church is similar to the late 18th century doctors bleeding their patients to try to help them overcome their illnesses.
ReplyDeleteI just watched the video and I have some questions.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the "storehouse" in Bellevue Baptist Church? I've never seen it personally, but it must be there if he is promoting storehouse tithing.
At the time that the verses he is quoting in Malachi were written, there was a literal storehouse in the temple. Where is it today?
Perhaps it is in the spot where the prayer chapel (a special offering was collected for it - but it was never built) was supposed to be.
Those pastors who believe in storehouse tithing are all (all of them) living under the Law as it is simply not under Grace. It seems to me that tithing is more important than Salvation...it certainly appears to be preached about more and with stronger force and with more dire consequences than being LOST. There is a "New Gospel" that Paul warned us would occur during the last days. Have you begun to realize the lack of normal affection, love of self (self esteem), forced adherence to false "spiritual doctrines" through intimidtion or threats and all the other facets that are being thrust upon the children of God? Most doctrines taught within the Bible appear to be not as important to those that teach tithing. Tithing is the most taught "subject". Also, some would have you believe that compromise with rock music rather than the wiser and more acceptalbe old solid hymns of the past, taking down the cross off of your church, removing Baptist from the name of your church, calling Gods church a "campus", stop visiting and sharing Jesus. There are better "gimmicks" that promote GROWTH in the church, than visitation and sharing Jesus. After all no one is home you know. Why do we put so much money in "missions" in other countries while refusing to visit in our own communities? Well,todays "church" isn't working very well, and where it does, many times, the true gospel is not pre-eminent. Many of todays church alinate their own members. Its all about feeling good and everyone is ok and lets just all get along. To that opinion, I would say stay away from those type of churches and read your Bible because it is going to be very soon when the number of 666 will be passed around and if you do not take it you will lose your head. But, do you hear any of this end time being preached from the Book of Revelation being taught? No, don't dare get anyone upset or scared about the end-time because you might have them lose their self esteem and that would be so terrible for them and for the church that promotes such theology. But what about the souls?
ReplyDeleteSo, where did Jesus or any of the apostles talk about tithing 10%?
ReplyDeleteIf people don't start reading their Bibles and finding out this stuff for themselves, they are bound to fall prey to this garbage.
Steve Gaines of Mega Bellevue Baptist Church, defending Tithing and Large Churches :
ReplyDeleteWe do what we do for little boys with cancer
cough....
Can you believe this
ReplyDeleteA once defender of Steve Gaines of Bellevue Baptist Church has now seen the light and has changed his opinion of him:
savingbellevue-solomon
saying
"Way back in 2005 Steve Gaines got himself into a lot of trouble for allegedly using strong-arm tactics
in an attempt to control others.
Also, the almost impossible-to-believe allegations that he actually believed a church member was possessed by a demon because of a dream he had began a conflict that was disastrous for Bellevue.
I was among many who couldn't bring themselves to believe something so crazy, but after recent events I have no other choice.
The man's borderline obsession with demonic influence and his recent unannounced visits to church members to "discuss" their tithing habits have left me no
alternative but to believe that those things were true."
So according to this, Steve Gaines is "visiting" members to badger them to TITHE?
So what do you think? Does Steve Gaines have a infatuation with the "dark side"?.
Lets review some of Steve's own words..
His story of exorcism of a demon possessed? man in Alabama
His story of exorcism of his Haunted House in Texas
His exorcism of his computer after googling for pictures of Satan on the internet in Memphis
What is amazing is none of the 1000s of Southern Baptist Fundamentalist preachers will EVER speak against another. Reminds me of the Roman good ole boy network that Luther and the reformers broke up.
ReplyDeleteThese boys love that money and are scared to death to become politically incorrect.
No A PEEP in Jackson Tn and all Gains preacher buddies.
Lee Simmons
Adrian Rogers was a godly man and I think he would not approved whats going on in the church.
ReplyDeleteMalachi 3:8-9 are in red letters in my bible. what does that mean?
ReplyDeleteI have been to his church, and I have heard him speak every time I go to see my friend perform in the Singing Christmas Tree. Other than that, I do not go to his church. This page somewhat explains why I've always felt uneasy when he speaks. My parents have taught me that when we tithe, which we do once a year, we do not tithe because God requires it of us. We tithe as a means of worship and a way to show thanks to God. It is also just one way that we can help God's kingdom be furthered and allow churches smaller than ours to continue their existence. Our church has elder rule established so that none of our ministers have direct access to tithes and offerings. The ministers have no incentive to lie to us about financing because they receive a set salary regardless of how much money comes in through tithes and offerings. Everything else goes to keep our church running and keep other smaller churches running.
ReplyDelete