"I think you officially suck as a human being if that is your focus...and the people that think the music is about them can leave the church." Perry Noble's message to church members who say they don't prefer the music style at NewSpring Church.------------------------
According to Perry Noble, you "officially suck as a human being" if you express to Perry that you are purposely late to church because you like his preaching but don't care for the music style.
NewSpring members need to be careful that their church doesn't begin to fall into the category of a cult. Cults often begin by having a very demanding, charismatic leader, they will require conformity with rigid extra-biblical rules, they will devalue outsiders and non-conformists, and they will suppress dissent.
You see all four of these beginning to emerge at NewSpring. Not saying they are a cult, but when the charismatic leader starts telling people that :
- they can't come back into the auditorium after the sermon starts even if they leave to tend to a child or go to the bathroom;
- that you suck as a human being if you disagree with the pastor over music styles;
- you are not allowed to designate how your donations are spent;
- you must give 10% of your income to the church undesignated or God will curse you;
- parents cannot bring children younger than 12 years of age into the church services;
- you must show up to church on time or you can't get into the church service;
...then you better begin to get concerned.
Lest you think that I'm overstating things by bringing up the word "cult" - don't forget what happened to a critic of Perry Noble's at the hands of staff members a few years back that is the subject of an on-going lawsuit. You see from the "you suck as a human being" quote how those who even mildly express dissent are devalued by the pastor. I would say it is this kind of rhetoric from the pastor towards dissenters that breeds the actions taken by a staff member against the Noble critic back in 2008 and 2009.
Perry Noble even tells the parents that if they don't conform to the "authority" of the church leaders, they will breed rebelliousness in the hearts of their children . No, actually subjecting one's self to non-biblical requirements for the pleasure of the pastor might teach your kids that they must endure spiritual abuse at the hands of an over-bearing preacher.
Chris is right on in his analysis. This is classic sheep beating. A pastor is to be the picture of humility and servant-hood for the people he shepherds, but instead Perry Noble is a stand-up comedian who makes jokes about troublesome church members, denigrates Christians who disagree with him, and lays down extra-biblical rules that are burdensome on people.
Unfortunately in Perry Noble and other mega pastor superstars these days, we have professional religious men who have turned Christianity from its essence: the release of sinful men and women from the burden of having to try to please God with their works and their alms through simple faith in Christ - into a strict religious system that demands conformity to religious practices, tells people how they must think and what rules they must obey to be pleasing to God and their priest, and uses tactics of guilt and shame in the process. And, oh by the way, they get filthy rich while doing it.
I'm pretty sure that if Jesus were here, he would warn the people of NewSpring about the arrogant Perry Noble and his professional religious men and describe them as he did the Pharisees:
"They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger." (Mat 23:4)
81 comments:
And he learned it all from Ed Young, his mentor.
That list you gave about the 'rules', everyone of them has been practiced at Young's Fellowship Church in Dallas for well over a decade. Not sure I ever heard Ed say you suck because you don't like the music, but I have heard Ed and his staff constantly berate those church members who dared to ask questions and present an opinion at odds with the leadership.
You hit it right on the head Dog, there is simply NO humility at some of these churches. They say they're humble, but when you put them to the test, and look at their actions and listen to their words, these places are the most self-centered, highlight-the-pastor, pastor-only places in the Church.
I am certain they are making a difference in the Kingdom, I'm just not sure it is a positive difference.
The mp3 of "Frequently asked questions" doesn't seem to be available. hm....
ok the video for ipod works. Noble makes me want to throw up.
Can we as a whole start referring to him as Perry Base? How about Perry IgNoble?
It's all about guilt. Do you get extra crowns in heaven for coming on time and sitting thru a music service that you don't enjoy week after week?
People aren't late to tailgating parties because they ENJOY them. They don't attend them because they'd feel guilty if they didn't.
I don't even know what kind of churches these are, but I did notice they're in the Bible Belt. They seem to be modern versions of fundie churches. It's all about the pastor's personality and following his rules or hell awaits.
The only thing interesting about it is why people subject themselves to it. I guess that's all they've ever known.
They should get out more.
Another pompous waddler masquerading as the 'annointed' leader. Ed, Mac, this egomaniac and others in the SBC have such destructive pride.
Thanks watchdog for being a watchman on the wall. Let the people know of this kind of desecration to the gospel, with all subtlety and charisma and force of personality.
The SBC needs so much repentance, from the leaders, and down the ranks of all the pew-sters.
Anybody that listens to this crap every Sunday deserves everything this guy gives them.
I do not like the use of the term "suck" but I do agree that if the focus is on the music then the focus is on the wrong thing.
I also agree about the distraction issue. He clearly stated there are places to watch the rest of the service without coming back in. Why should the church leadership follow those they should be leading. It is a distraction when people walk out. Why double it by walking is. Sounds very selfish if a person demands the right to disrupt.
The 6th grade and up issue does not bother me nor does it impress me. If a subject is being dealt with and it gets pg-13, as Noble stated then I would not dare ask the pastor to choose g rated words for the sake of those who choose to bring their children in.
A church for many people in our culture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAg1rRbxrGY
I'm afraid that the anonymous comment at 3:30 shows exactly why such ungodly men continue in the pulpit. We live in a base culture and we have become so immune to it that men like Noble not only survive, but thrive.
I often wondered how leaders of the faith would follow false Christian teachers in the last days. I now have my answer. How sad.
Off Topic: Mac Brunson leaves a comment on Lumpkins blog here!
Perry Noble officially sucks at being a pastor.
not surprised. what I think is intresting is Noble like many other emergent and seeker types
have people in their churches go online and harass us odmers as well are called for telling the truth about guys like Noble. The seeker sensitive movement which Noble and Rick Warren and Hybels and Furtick is part of's rotten fruit and chickens are coming home to roost. GOD forgive us for allowing these seeker driven monster churches to take over the christian community
Some one once asked another pastor near my table, "Is P. Noble and his ministry even fit for the dung heap any longer? Or should it be totally discarded for good?"
Well, this idea comes from Luke 14 where Jesus said that when salt loses it usefulness, it is not even good for the manure (fertilizer) pile, and is simply and totally discarded. I'm not sure I know the correct answer? I m not passing judement... merely passing on a question posed to others. But, after this blog, I HAVE to ask -- What do you think? Is it good? Ready for the dung heap? Or not even good enough for the dung heap? Let us all know what you think. Better yet, "What does God think?" P. Noble seems to be tryng hard, that's for sure.... but then again, 'ole Satan himself is tryin HARD (get people to come to HELL and stay.) Think about it. Ole Perry is sure bringing in lots of Bucks, but what does that really mean? What is his annual salary? Benefits package? What is his House and Car status / financial level? Does he use a private jet like his cronie Ed Young Jr? I just want him to disclose all of this! Come on P. Nobele -- let us have a peek behind your hallowed and extravagant curtain that is P. Noble and Newspring. It would be fascinating for sure. Eye opening, but fascinating. I dare you to do it! Full disclosure of all things Perry and New Spring.
Dee, Can you give a response to my position instead of an insult?
Junkster, Ive never heard him preach a sermon, just the clip here. I wouldn't let what he said in the video turn me off.
He's a bumpkin and it looks like he's on the set of Hee Haw.
I'm sure that's not what he intends, being so hip and all.
I don't know if this is the appropriate place to start my blog. I have reading FBC Watchdog for seveal years now. I am a close relative of judge A.C.Soud, Jr. I am going to post further blogs as to how evil this man really is. Apperances are not what they seem.
If you're a close relative of the judge why don't you go talk to him instead of putting a bunch of junk on a blog. It would sure do the Kingdom of God a lot more good.
I will reveal myself shortly, and what I will reveal will be shocking. You see, I'm not a coward like him. His arrogance you can't believe. His mother was Soritha Soud,and his father was A.C. Soud, Sr. A.C. never knew his father he died of pneumonia before he was born. His mother was a great Christian lady, who attended Central Baptist Church on the southside of Jacksonville. That church was founded in the livingroom of her house along with a man by the name of Robert Whitty, a long story about him later. A.C. has forgotten where he came from, and his Christian values. I know I should not judge, may God forgive me. It's now all about power, money, and false pride. Again the shocking truth soon. Just curious is First Baptist Church to big to fail? Watchdog you are right on a lot of issues, although I don't agree with all, but you surly have a right to be heard. Heaven is not an exclusive club. May God bless the pure of heart at First Baptist Church.
Anonymous 5:46
If you cannot see a problem with Noble, there is no response that I could give you that would matter. This has nothing to do with who comes and goes during a service and everything to do with a man who does not belong in a pulpit of a church that calls itself Christian.
I am most grateful to Watchdog for posting this information. He is doing something that few have then guts to do.
Hmmm Why don't we do the music the way the "suck" people want and see who "officially suck as a human being" then?
“is First Baptist Church to(o) big to fail?”
In reality, yes; there are just too many programs, projects and things that even unsaved people find attractive that there will always be a population to keep these behemoths going. Like I have posted before sales people are taught to join and seek leadership in and even tithe to the largest church in a city and use their connections for business purposes. Does not matter if you believe or not just pretend so that you can get those business leads.
“Watchdog you are right on a lot of issues, although I don't agree with all,…”
Tis a thin coin that does not have two sides.
“but you surly have a right to be heard.”
Except in the larger so called “seeker sensitive” churches, then you are required to “swallow and follow.” It has been my experience the only ones who are afraid of things being exposed are the ones with something to hide.
“Heaven is not an exclusive club. May God bless the pure of heart at First Baptist Church.”
Amen.
“GOD forgive us for allowing these seeker driven monster churches to take over the christian community”
Amen
I have no respect for a person who uses the word "suck" in their vocabulary. It only reflects upon the person in a bad way; shows they have no taste, no decency, no intelligence, and no respect for the listener.
And what's worse is that a preacher used such a word, and used it in a way to define a person's worth and value.
In church speak, telling someone that they suck is no different from telling them to go to hell.
And I think there will be a special place in hell for preachers who talk like this.
Perry the little Pecker also said Oh my God at the end of the video clip in a sarcastic tone.
Isn't that taking the Lord's name in vain? Can you say blasphemy?
Shows the complete absence of integrity and respect for the Holy Father in the pulpit. What a hypocrite!
He is reaching people for Christ!!
Are you?
In my view, anyone who speaks about people like that is unfit to be a pastor, period.
He is reaching people for Christ!!
Are you?
Is FBCJax Reaching.
If you know you shouldn't judge, then don't. I doubt seriously that anyone wants to hear anything about Judge Soud but then some Baptists seem to thrive on dirt and gossip.
He is reaching people for New Spring! He is the deceiver! He is not Biblically qualified to be the leader of the church. Let's stop dancing around by saying how he needs to change. He won't change because it works for Perry.
What Noble said is very offensive. It's like if your child told you something, then you went and told it in a mocking voice to all your friends. How embarrassed they would be. Plus he's showing how he really feels about people. There's no love. There's no respect. There's mockery.
Would you go to a pastor like this with an intimate problem??? Would he preach on your problem next Sunday and mock what you said?
And people wonder why you absolutely MUST be a hypocrite at church. Say what you really think, and this is what you get.
He could accomplish the same thing in a much nicer way. They could put up a small sign or in the bulletin, respectfully ask that if you must go out, please sit in the back when you return or whatever. As far as saying you suck as a human being if you dislike the music-that's so offensive and ridiculous, I don't know why anybody would stay after hearing that. Plus it's a crude way of talking and inappropriate for adults.
Also, is the Holy Spirit so powerless that he cannot work if people get distracted? That alone should make you wonder about a lot of things.
My son attends karate and there's a small area with chairs for the parents. They have a small sign up that says please be quiet, etc. Do some people talk anyway? Yes, sometimes. Do some use their cell phones anyway? Yes, sometimes. Is it annoying? Yes. But the owner does not come over and call you out publicly over little rudenesses like that. These things just have to be put up with in public places.
And since Noble is in the south, I'm surprised he gets away with this. I'm from the south and do not like bad language generally. It's unbecoming when anyone uses it. Sure it's all around us constantly. But for an adult male to do so, it simply takes away from them so much. I don't know how men feel, but women are very unimpressed with such, generally. He's not a teenager.
what I will never understand is why people continue to go to churches such as this? Why submit yourself to such nonsense? Why give your money to a church led by men such as this?
Off Topic: The Wartburg Watch [Dee] > Breaking News: CJ Mahaney, the “Trendy” Calvinista, Temporarily Steps Down to Deal With Sin
what I will never understand is why people continue to go to churches such as this? Why submit yourself to such nonsense? Why give your money to a church led by men such as this?
Because these Monsters have a goal is to destroy Christianity and the first amendment.
Re: FormerFellow's post
WOW you said it all. Gateway Church in Dallas-Fort Worth is also turning into this kind of operation. The smaller church (still had an attendance of 15k plus) was not like this, or at least it wasn't as noticeable. When they opened the bigger church in 2010, everything really started deteriorating into an insulting, sterile, materialistic atmosphere.
A couple of months ago Robert Morris said he used to think he'd have to live in poverty in Africa and marry an ugly woman if he wanted to follow Jesus. He added "Some men like ugly women and if you do, that's ok. But I'm not saying all African women are ugly. Oh, that came out wrong -- We'll just edit that out. hahaha" This seems to be standard operating procedure. Insult the congregation then edit it out so it doesn't get archived on the tape versions on the Internet.
Equally repulsive was his imitation of the congregation during his 'dream to destiny' series.
He said,
"Oh please Pastor Robert, tell me how to reach my dream, I want to know." While moving his arms like a little child -- completely mocking the congregation.
He said people were pleading with him and were so into the series, and yet they'll never reach their dream without tithing to the church.
How sick.
They also do the same thing as Young's Fellowship Church -- telling stories about "stupid" things people say and weaving it into sermons -- letting you know what they think of your opinion and how it will be received if you ever dare say anything.
All of these preachers love being on a power trip that allows them to hurl as many spiked insults as they can and then have the congregation come groveling back for more (with tithe check in hand).
Does anyone have any theories as to why people keep going back to these churches and their arrogant, brutally insulting and condescending preachers?
I am serious -- I don't get it. At some point, enough is enough.
I think people keep coming back for more because the preacher is representing the authority of God and the authority of the Bible to them.
Plus, in the south at least, I think we have great respect for authority, so we're attracted to authoritarians. I think the preacher serves as a kind of stern father who gives you tough love, and you like the security of him knowing everything and telling you how to do life.
I think the many good preachers who are truly sincere, decent people who respect others, should be given due credit. But as for those authoritarian, movie-star type preachers, I think when sitting in church you should ask yourself this question: How did I come to be sitting and listening to this type thing week after week? Maybe I need to "wake up and smell the coffee." "Maybe I've been lulled into accepting what I'm used to." "Is sitting here a good thing?" "Would I want my CHILDREN to do the same?"
Also if you allow yourself to be abused over a long period of time, it simply becomes normal for you. You are less and less shocked by it.
Like in an abusive marriage. You'll allow your husband to say things to you that you would be shocked to hear another husband saying to his wife.
So I guess something drastic has to happen to wake you out of your complacency, or you start mingling with women who have a very different view, and those women influence you.
Sharon, you are correct. A few things happened to me, one right after the other and I started to see how they really are, rather than what in my mind I wanted them to be. The facade fell off.
And yes, there are sincere preachers who deserve credit. I think that for some of them, their egos start getting in the way. They start wielding power and it grows from there. I have a great sense of humor, but I see nothing amusing in what some of these preachers are saying. I think it's very damaging emotionally and spiritually.
That's not to say that even these egomaniacs are entirely bad people. They have in fact done a lot of good, too. But at some point, that line starts to blur.
I just can't get on board with the whole Bill Hybel (Muslims and Christians have the same God) thing. Then there's the promotion of Rick Warren's new age thinking. These churches are pushing too much for a one-world religion that merges all religions into one and dilutes the gospel.
These mega-preachers expect us to follow so many rules to the T and express our unwavering trust and devotion. Yet they themselves pick and choose what rules they will follow and don't seem to care when they introduce non-Christian concepts as long as they're making a buck and growing their egos along with their churches. For people to sit there and applaud being insulted is just mind-boggling to me.
I have a hard time trying to hear Jesus say "You Officially Suck as a Human Being".
"And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus giving thanks to God the Father through Him". Colossians 3:17
Stupid is as stupid does...
Applies to the preacher as well as the pew-sitters.
Amen? AMEN
As long as we continue to have an unbiblical religious system in place that supposedly represents Christianity, then these things will continue to be commonplace. The system allows one person to elevate himself above everyone else unbiblically, discourages accountability and scrutiny, and is about forcing conformity to someone other than Christ. This was not the case in the early church.
This guy is like 20 minutes from my house. I sigh when we are downtown Greenville SC preaching in the open air, or doing 1-2-1's and see someone with a tshirt that reads" Newspring Volunteer",or "I got dunked at Marathon Community Church"
Speaking as a NewSpring member, I am saddened by the context in this blog. This is way out of context. I have been a member for a little over 2 years and I have witnessed amazing things for the Lord. My children, myself, and my family have learned so much Biblically and gained such a strong relationship with the Lord. The childrens program at NewSpring is amazing! My 14 year old daughter knows more about the Bible in her 14 years than I knew by the time I was in my 20s. By the age of 5 my 7 year old daughter could tell you the complete resurrection story and what it takes to have a relationship with our Saviour!
I do not like the word "suck" either, but the messages that he preaches are straight from the Bible. Although, he (Perry) should probably choose a different word. His messages get the point across. NewSpring is not about Perry it is about JESUS CHRIST.
I find it funny that people that can get to a tail gate party on time and cannot get to church on time that is a sad problem. It is not a Perry thing it is a God thing. Which God do we serve more is what he (Perry) was trying to get across. It is valid that I feel any pastor would admit is a challenge and sad. Minus the word...
Also, just so you know the truth... people come into the service right up until the sermon starts. As for the 10% tithing to NewSpring... Perry repeatedly tells us that it's not about NewSpring it is about God... the Bible says 10% and Perry tells us regularly that all we have belongs to God, He is the provider, we are the recipient, why would we not give our 10% to His kingdom. Perry always tells us that if we are not members to give your tithes to a local church in your area.
Sorry that you cannot see his heart for the Lord and that we as members are not blind. We have a heart and a desire to serve our Lord. Who is forgiving and merciful. The only thing I can say, is that if you have never attended a service and felt the Lord's presence you are missing out. The volunteers, staff, and members have a joy that is definitly full of Jesus.
After reading Professor James Duncan's account of what New Spring people did to him, it amazes me when anyone defends this church or its leader.
Imagine if someone sent YOUR boss a fake letter of resignation to get you fired or worked to derail your adoption of a child?
New Spring appeals to the "hot and now" folks. Surface sermons with shock value work for some people. Most of them don't know enough about the Bible to say whether the sermons are Biblical. Maybe if you wrapped it in shiny paper to match the sequined outfits?
All of you are so worried about protecting your religion that Jesus takes a back seat.
I have been a member here for almost 10 years and your info is way way way off base. Maybe the word "suck" isnt the best in the world, but come on lets get some thicker skin people. 10,000 people attend this church ever weekend...you can't tell me they are all hopeless sheep following a cult leader. Perry preaches STRAIGHT from the Bible. He goes into issues that other churches are scared to go into.
You edited that video to get maximum shock value. Your readers would do well to watch the entire, uncut video at their church website.
There’s a major problem with this article, and that is the out of context Bible verse at the end. In the two verses immediately prior, Jesus is commanding His followers to do as the Pharisees tell them to. He THEN goes on to explain that His problem with the Pharisees is not the rules (which would be dumb, because Jesus Himself made those rules up IF you believe in the concept of the Trinity) but with the fact that they don’t keep the rules themselves, nor do they help other people to obey those rules in the spirit of grace in which Jesus came. I think Perry Noble is over the top and as you say, many of his rules are extra biblical which is a problem for some. However, your article offers no evidence that Perry Noble does not offer mercy FOR SIN or stand for grace FOR SINNERS. Pastors are supposed to be the picture of JESUS to the people they shepherd, not just the aspects of Jesus that people love to read about. The fact is, Jesus was harsh as often as he was gentle and He did not stand for even benign disagreement from His followers (Matthew 16:23). He’d put up with their sins, but that didn’t mean He didn’t call them out on those sins (John 6:70).
You need to keep in mind two things. First, it’s Perry Noble’s flock, he is accountable to his master (Romans 14). He’s not accountable to you. As someone else pointed out, Perry Noble’s fruit is evident – he’s allowed to make extra biblical rules as long as they’re not ANTI biblical rules. Separate washrooms for men and women are extra biblical. That doesn’t make that rule wrong. Second, his authoritarian approach may be what is needed in order to start swinging the pendulum back so people can realize just where that narrow gate Jesus spoke of is. Grace is a pardon we can choose to accept, it’s not the excuse we love to project.
No man is perfect....except for Jesus, of course. Pastor Perry does have his flaws, just like any other pastor, but he leads thousands to Christ which is what is most important. Even during his worst sermons and this sermon in question, people are being saved. Tell all of these comments to the people that were saved. I really do not think it matters what you think about Perry. Perry is not going to save you...Jesus is and he will be the first to tell you that. Perry always uses the word straight out of the Bible and talks in everyday language that anyone can understand, even if it is the word suck. It may sound harsh, but if you are offended, get over it. It's not about you....it's about all HIM...Jesus!
Way to take it out of context. "You suck as a human being IF THAT'S YOUR FOCUS." If the whole reason you come to church is to listen to the style of music you like...buy a CD and stay home. Church is about the body of Christ coming together and worshiping and learning together. Not making a play list of your favorite songs. Thank God for pastors that don't try to be holier than thou and just act like a normal person. And seriously, the pastor who preached a whole sermon again Perry...who got saved at that? Seriously, what did that accomplish? Our goal as Christians is the be used by God so he can cause heart change and cross people over from death to life. I was at this service and if I remember correctly people gave their lives to CHRIST. So if this is a sheep beating, keep 'em coming! Baaaaaaaa :)
Way to take it out of context. "You suck as a human being IF THAT'S YOUR FOCUS." If the whole reason you come to church is to listen to the style of music you like...buy a CD and stay home. Church is about the body of Christ coming together and worshiping and learning together. Not making a play list of your favorite songs. Thank God for pastors that don't try to be holier than thou and just act like a normal person. And seriously, the pastor who preached a whole sermon again Perry...who got saved at that? Seriously, what did that accomplish? Our goal as Christians is the be used by God so he can cause heart change and cross people over from death to life. I was at this service and if I remember correctly people gave their lives to CHRIST. So if this is a sheep beating, keep 'em coming! Baaaaaaaa :)
I allowed my son to attend Newspring with friends on a Wed night. The kids profess that this is the best way to meet girls from all over Anderson. When I came to pick him up for an event at our church, I was not allowed inside. A sherriff's deputy refused me entrance to the building where hundreds of young people were gathered. Adults are not allowed in the auditorium. Frankly, I panicked and thought- what have I done? After seeing my face and hearing the demand, I am taking my child, you get him or I get him, the deputy went in. It was never my intent to disrupt. My Methodist church would never discourage a parent from seeing what the youth were doing. I can sit at the back of any classroom and observe in public school. Newspring separates our children for private teaching. Sorry, there is evil in the world and I don't have enough faith in mankind to blindly trust. That is my issue with Perry. Blind faith in the pastor and church leadership is required. Look what happened in the Catholic church as the result of blind faith. No way. Not ever. I will ask and ask again. Newspring could not serve my faith.
First of all...I have to say I LOVE MY CHURCH...if it wasn't for NewSpring I would have never been saved..I would have kept living the way I wanted..thinking it was right...I am so sick of people taking Perry's words and twisting them...he is a great pastor and doesn't sugar coat it...he's real and he's honest and yes he's brutal but he's apparently doing something right...cause the church is full on Sunday morn noon and night...and wed. so people need to stop belittling Perry noble and work on their own hearts. And as far as adults not be let in to a service..thats a security issue...NewSpring is def very protective of all the children/teengaers that are intrusted to their care in kidspring and fuse...like Perry always says if you don't like it don't come back...it all boils down to one of the many things our mothers taught us...if you don't have anything nice to say DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL!
As a church or non-profit organization you are required to make your budget public. To include the salary of the Minister. My father was one. Does Perry do this. No. You are required to pay 25 dollars for a marriage class but are not allowed to use the church facilities(Oh and the "GOD" Perry does not perform wedding. Well if you don't perform them the keep your stupid mouth shut about them and don't tell me how to make mine better you freakin Hipocrit. I am a military service member and have served God and Country faithfully and without question. What I do not understand is the coverup or lack of ownership in the whole Duncan situation. Perry better count his stars that his cult did that to a man with class. If that would have happened to my family you could bet I would have taken that church from the ground up with all the rent a cops and golf cart greeters. So I can agree that God blessed you in that sense. Bottom line if you defend this churches preachings then you are truly ignorant to the bible. "Where two or more are gathered in my name there I am also". Nowhere did it say I needed 10,000 with an overpaid non denominational Preacher. God Bless all. Even the ones brainwashed by this idiot.
Perry is a nut job. He's a wolf in sheeps clothing. It is clear that it is all about controling others for his agenda. Which would be for power, fame and money. Those who support him need to read their Bibles so they can discern the truth about this man. The Bible talks about being discerning and to test everything. If you chose to still support him after the evidence, then there is no hope for you of ever being able to see the truth. Matt:24:11
Barna is the best survey taker on churches. He came up with 40% attendance and explains why half of those polled do not tell the truth. Thus Perry Nobel's 15% is about right instead of Gallup's 56%.
I am very familiar with Newspring but am not a member. Most of the negatives posted here are without foundation of any kind. You are using scriptures and (personal opinion) out of context in an attempt to support your cases. While each of you believes you are God's chosen watchman I would implore you to love more and pray more for things you cannot grasp. Things of the Lord are spiritually discerned and I do not see that happening here. While you may not agree with or understand certain methodologies/teachings used by Newspring does not mean God is not using/inspiring Newspring and it's leaders. Let's all be about God's business of reaching all for Jesus Christ. If they be for us who can be against us?
I would have to agree with the last anonymous comment. For those of you who are against Perry Noble, I would ask you to look at your own life as a believer. To criticized NewSpring and not praise God for the souls that have been one tells me you have a heart issue that is between you and God. Maybe it's the fact you are mad that what he does works. Thousands of people are coming to know Christ and serving Him. It seems to me that NewSpring cares more about the great commission that most of the people who have a negative opinion about Perry. I know that God celebrates those souls being saved, why do you have such a hard heart towards it?
I have been to the church. When I arrived, I was greeted coming into the parking lot; greeted again heading toward the worship center; greated again at the entrance to the spacious fellowship space; and greated again as I was going through the door to the worship arena. I visited in a worship service; heard Perry’s sermon; observed the people’s worship of Christ; became informed of how the church was ministering. When I told them I was a pastor, they asked if they could treat me to the green room. It was there that I met one of the pastors, and discussed their ministry approach. They asked if there was anything they could do for us and how they could pray for us.
In watching the church’s blog, Perry has been very transparent about his weaknesses (as I try to be), even to the point of requesting a sabbatical leave to recover from stress and depression. The church gracefully granted him such. I know of no cult leader that would even admit to having a weakness and requesting time away – they are too wrapped up in themselves and in control of the people to do such.
This church gave $1.8 million to supporting missions last year. These monies went to four churches in Europe, as well as to support missional efforts here in America. The people are on fire because their eyes have been opened to the call of serving the Lord and of the eternal truth that their life may have an eternal impact on someone else. NewSpring is very much a new testament church in how lives are changed and people are grown to be fully devoted followers of Christ, not fully devoted followers of Perry.
I was so impressed with this, you see, because my wife is from Anderson, SC, and I am fairly familiar with churches in the city. I know first hand how people have been praying for a move of God so that their lives could make a real difference. I can only describe what is happening as a move of God.
I visited the church last summer. I was greeted in the parking lot; greeted again as I was walking toward the entrance; greeted again at the sidewalk that takes you to the entrance; greeted again at the entrance; greeted again at the entry door to the worship center. Wow! I felt significant!
The music was excellent. The sermon was truth taken from God's Word. The people were excited to be there and worship.
After worship, I told someone that I was a pastor vistiting. They asked if I would go with them to a special room. They took me to the green room where they treated me like royalty: asked me how they could pray for me; asked me if NewSpring could assist me in any way; and then we all prayed together!
NewSpring gave $1.8 million to missions by that point in 2012. Those monies helped to fund four churches in eastern Europe, as well as other missional causes both at home and abroad.
Last year hundreds prayed to receive Christ and were baptized. My experience with this church is also interesting because my wife grew up in Anderson, SC. I am very familiar with many of the churches there, as well as many of the people there.
We should rejoice that God is moving in such a mighty way, and pray that His Spirit would ignite such in our own churches.
an evangelical conservative pastor in Virginia...
I don't know how I've missed this blog before! Perry Noble is a nutjob and new spring IS A PERRY NOBLE SERVING CULT! My daughter was sucked in during college and now new spring runs her life. They pick & choose what parts of the bible to follow and they certainly don't endorse honor your mother & father... if your mother & father doesn't agree with Perry noble. I'm furious. I want my child back. I don't knoe what to do. Anything I say negative makes me seem evil. It's a church for goodness sakes, who says bad things about a church and pastor? ? I'm seeing hundreds of 20 something year olds giving all their money & time to perry and new spring in an unhealthy atmosphere and I feel like I'm the only person noticing! Anyone else upset about their child and new spring???
I found this blog and was shocked to read "So Many Negative" remarks from those who appear to be Christians and attend church.
I attend NewSpring and in terms of age, I am considered a "senior" now. Not just someone in my twenties. I have been in church since I was 26 years old and very active in my former church home as well!
Whats the saying..."Don't speak beyond your experience!" Many of these remarks are hearsay and we each must find our place of worship.
NewSpring is not a cult and yes, it is structured, yes it has live music, yes it relates to broken people! People who need the Lord!
I read the comment from the Pastor who attended and what he stated is true!!
It is a loving environment and no one has ever forced me to give money, made me feel guilt for not giving money, (though we do "cheerfully" tithe) and never ever have we been "forced to study or the read the bible" in a particular way accept to be encouraged to be in the Word everyday and spend time with God!!
I see children crying because they don't want to leave KidSpring and they are learning about Jesus. I see people being baptized and following Christ and I see mission work being carried out into the fields and new shoes going on the feet of children right here in our own state who need shoes. We've seen forgiveness taking place and people desiring to lead their lives according to Christ!
NewSpring may not be your type of worship experience. Traditional church may be or blended service may be...If so, then worship where the Lord is leading you and don't go around bashing people, pastors and churches that are not only reaching people for Christ, but growing them in the Lord as well.
One mother stated her college student was brainwashed. Really?? I know teens who attend FUSE and are talking about Jesus and how they've grown from the teachings during the next week....they are following Christ, not Perry!
So please don't speak beyond your experience or if you attended NewSpring and it was not your type of worship, pray and find your place to worship so you can reach others for Christ!
I can assure you, NewSpring is based on biblical principles and has incredible ministries that reach out to people from all walks of life!!!
And to address the structure on what happens if you must leave church during the sermon. Hundreds of people attend church...in the past when a child or baby has a moment of need, many parents will not leave the church, therefore, the pastor is distracted and so are the people. I love, love, love, babies and children but at NewSpring they have a wonderful nursery and KidSpring for the children to go too and learn about Jesus on their level.
Do you like going to a movie or a play and have people go in and out and walk over you? Do you? I believe even in movie theatres, you are asked not to talk during the movie and we all know if people go in and out...it is annoying..
There are tv's so if you have to leave you can finish watching the service! So please don't see this as a negative. It is to give each person the experience of worship with few distractions as possible leading up to an awesome invitation where so many come to know the Lord!
My prayer is that you find your place of worship where you love others and grow and reach people for Christ!!
As for me....I Love My Church and I Love My Savior!
There's a reason Noble doesn't like for people to miss the music section of his service. And it isn't what most here think. It's far worse than him just being arrogant.
I've seen films and had classes on this before. I worked military intelligent during 'Nam and we were taught how to defeat brainwashing attempts if captured by the NVA. One of the things we were taught was to try and covertly pack out ears so that we could dampen the sound of loud noises, especially music.
Ever wonder why the FBI blared loud music at the Branch Davidians in Waco?
It's the same reason Noble does it at the beginning of services. It lowers resistance to suggestions.
He doesn't want the members to miss the music section of his service because it's part of the whole brainwashing program. It's a decades old technique. The loud ramped up music at the first of the service batters peoples, minds. It numbs the thinking and reasoning processes of the brain hence making them more susceptible to anything they are told, especially from a charismatic person that they see as a leader.
He knows the "program" won't work if the members don't get that "dose" of loud rhythmic music blasted at them first.
I will judge and call this what it is, it's a cult being run by a cult leader. Move over Jim Jones, Noble is taking your place as the next most famous cult leader.
I agree that Noble is a horrible Pastor and his failings are many.
However I fully agree with churches setting rules about allowing children in the service and people coming in late. A good service is presented at an adult/college level and children will be bored and distracted. As a result they distract their parents and everyone around them. Place kids in children's church where the lesson is designed for their age group.
Same thing for coming and going during a service. People are concentrating on the Word of God. Any highschool or college professor requires that much respect for the class, how much more so for the Bible Study?
The biggest issue here is not about music taste or church "rules." The biggest issue is that this "pastor" has determined that if things aren't done his way, God can't work.... What kind of God do we serve if He can't cause someone to focus through the "distraction" of someone getting up or walking into a service? My God is way bigger than that. I know too many people who attend this church that are way too caught up on the words of the "pastor" than on the words of our Lord. PN, God does not NEED you in order to accomplish His purpose. When a spiritual leader begins to push himself and his personal opinions ahead of the God we serve, that leader is in fact becoming cult-like. This blog hits the nail on the head. If a church is being praised because of how traditional it's not, perhaps they need to reconsider what is being glorified in that church-- is it God's desires? or humanity's desires? I'll be honest, rulers like P. Noble scare me. Satan loves an influential powerhouse!
You all realize that Christianity, along with any other religion is defined as a cult. It is just a socially accepted one. As an outside observer, you all scare the hell out of me. To quote three bible is foolish, it had been translated 3 times over, once by a roman senate and once by an english king. To have a relationship with god, you don't need walls, or a roof, or offerings, or even a pastor. It is a personal relationship. What I have seen from new spring is terrifying to say the least, but the fact that many of you feel comfort in a "judgment day" leads me to believe that you will let this earth rot because you feel it is god's will. Your ignorance is destroying the human race. You need to stop looking to the sky for answers and start looking toward your fellow man. Humans are capable of so much and NOT because they do it through god. It is because we are remarkable creatures. Maybe an omnipotent being started it all, but I doubt they have much to do with our lives anymore. Nor could we understand it fully, ever. You can not understand or comprehend an all powerful being that exists on several dimensions. You all talk about evidence, though none of you have evidence to support Christianity. You are letting man dictate and interpret another mans thousand year old story book. There are many instances in the bible that mirror the koran and the teachings of buddha. It originally became popular because Emperor Constatine in 312ad was tired of the polytheistic religion, and wanted something that would focus to a single point. THAT is documented history.
But I will tell you what I will do about newspring. You are religious zealots, and will not have my daughter or any friend or family come anywhere near a member of that cult. And if I know I am in the presence of one I will make sure I am armed. Because you are just a few steps away from "cleansing the wicked." Well if mindful thought and intelligence are considered wicked, you are showing me you have neither and should be barred from making ANY decision that effects the public. Period.
The two things I can understand, especially through my experiences are: Once the message/sermon begins, if one gets up and leaves they are not permitted to come back into the sanctuary so as not to disrupt the message. Often you have chronic middle-of-message leavers and to have them get up and come back and others do the same can really be distracting. In a great church that I have attended, the pastor will gently ask that if you think you may be called out during the middle of the message due to children in nursery (usually) please sit towards the back of sanctuary so as to be a minimal distraction. It is all done with the whole of the congregation in mind. Also, I don't see a problem with having children twelve and under attend the age-appropriate classes for them. In my experience these classes are led by people who have gone out of their ways to prepare, care and teach the younger ones.
We have a New Spring church here in Columbia, SC. I did not know anything about it until my friend posted this blog on FB. Thanks for letting me know about it.
I have considered attending New Spring for a while out of curiosity. Unfortunately, This clip has answered any and all questions about whether or not I will attend. This clip is so disheartening! Pastors are supposed to be a light that guides people and gives them hope. They're supposed to encourage the Church's members to continue coming each Sunday. It seems like this pastor is pretty manipulative. I wouldn't feel encouraged to return if I was being lectured the entire time as opposed to counseled. If this is the change that "other churches" resist... I will stick with my traditional church.
People who pick and choose what to harp on and use that to put someone or something in a category are so self centered and self righteous. Nobody is perfect but to use one message out of hundreds to describe someone or a church is so wrong and manipulative which is usually caused by jealousy and selfishness. Tithing isn't about giving to a pastor or church it's about giving to God and making a sacrifice if you don't agree w how the church spends it then give somewhere else it's about the heart of giving. If the word suck offends you then grow up take the good w the bad at least he's not like most pastors that have perfect hair family and walk on gold. Self righteousness is what's hurting the kingdom the most
An anonymous posted many critical comments and also wrote " I worked military intelligent during 'Nam" Anyone who actually served would recognize this person did not actually serve. If a person lies about their service than their opinion is not worthwhile.
The Word is clear about how we are supposed to handle issues we have with one another in the body. I'm pretty sure finding a place to criticize and tear down one another is not mentioned. How much time have you spent praying for this man and his church? Is this really how God wants you to respond to this issue? What is Gods heart for Perry? Anyone who steps out into a place of doing what God is calling them to or pursuing the call on their life WILL make mistakes- but I would much rather be in the arena fighting than in the crowd criticizing. The real question is are we doing what we are supposed to be doing?
GET OUT NOW!!! People are afraid they will lose their salvation if the leave. Such deception.
I am. Although my daughter is grown, she has changed, her family has changed. On fire yes but very much more materialistic. A keep up with the Jones' attitude. I have attended and felt out of place. :-(
As a member of Newspring Church, I'm baited with comments and accusations like the ones in this article all the time. What critics fail to see is that Pastor Perry is a common man, with relatable struggles reaching people far from God on a realistic level, rather than on a pedestal like so many other churches and their pastors preach from. Perry is realistic and honest, he's never been afraid to say how he feels and honestly I think God appreciates an honest human being spreading his word versus a person who lies about who they are because they're scared to look "weak" in front of their congregation. Other churches have been willing to point fingers at how untraditional Newspring is, but the simple truth is that Perry is reaching out to people that other churches might otherwise turn their backs on just because they're not "our type of people". At our church we accept anyone who'd like to join our services, we don't point fingers and make judgments...and the traditional churches are seeing the movement as something bad because we've attracted so many people. 2,000 years ago Jesus Christ and his disciples had masses follow them to hear God's word....you all know this and think it's wonderful. Since when did a church becoming big become a bad thing? I know for a fact that God doesn't mind. So who are you to pass judgment? I don't know about y'all, but I'm proud to belong to a church that is about found people finding people and bringing them closer to God and his love, and meeting them on a realistic level...instead of belonging to a country club with a steeple.
I find no reverence in churches like this. Instead its like a rock concert, with the pastor coming onstage as the headliner to welcomed applause. The church is to be separate from the world, not mimicking the world. I was told that "the church is not a democracy, and you don't get a vote" when I attended a similar church, Foothills in Seneca. Also, words are VERY important. When you take a holy sacriment like baptizm and call it "dunking" as if we're no more important than a donut, that seems irreverant to me.
I thought God was to judge us. It seems as though something happened at FBC Jax to have so many judging Perry Noble. This site just gives non-believers more reason to laugh at us so called christians. The path is narrow and few will enter. If you have concerns ask for forgiveness and pray for Perry Noble. May God have mercy on his children
I love how all of yall are bashing Newspring Church, and Perry Noble. Have you ever been to a service there? Perry is an awesome Pastor who has led many people to Chirst and to begin relationships with God. No one on earth has ever been perfect except for Jesus. And he is teach people about Jesus. What is wrong with that? It works, why do people always have to put down people that are good for just a few mistakes. The point of church is not make people want to be like the pastor its to make people love Jesus. The pastor shouldn't be a role model. God is the only role model people need.
How many of y'all have actually attended or watched a NewSpring service? Perry Noble is a fantastic preacher. He helps people to reach Jesus. Articles like this one include snip-it's of sermons to prove whatever point they want. Perry is putting these "rules" into affect at his church in order to better the experience for those in the service. On every NewSpring campus there are televisions set up, showing the live message. If you choose to leave the service, you still have the opportunity to watch. It is true that children in fifth grade or below are not allowed to enter the normal service. In KidSpring, which is where they go during a normal service, they are given sermons that teach them about Jesus on their level. In a normal service, they would have no idea what was going on & they wouldn't be growing closer to Jesus. In KidSpring, they have the opportunity to do that.
So before you start throwing around the word cult, do your research.
It's like the classic story about putting the frog in cool water and over a long period of time turn the water higher and higher until the frog is boiled. They never see it coming.
Men are sinners and God know this, that is why he sent his son down here for our sins. It is not for me to judge this minister"Perry Noble"! But, if I take his comments literally than he is judging others. That is what only God has the power to do. I regard myself as a Human Being that doesn't "Suck" and don't hold much value this man's opinion. I was going to visit this church, but my discernment (not judgement) tells me this is not a man of God.
Chuck Sovick( I may have to go to the restroom)
Yes, the focus is on the word, but people have a right to like or not like what they choose. That includes the, "Jesus is my boyfriend" music that's played. Second, didn't Jesus say let the children come to me? So why keep anyone out of the service? I cannot believe those that dare go to the restroom *gasp* (a necessary bodily function, by the way) should be refused to reenter. I really and truly believe if we would to ask God his thoughts about men like Noble, I think he'd say he's doing it all wrong.
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