"It's going to be great to see God's people in action. We've got camera crews set up at all the different locations." Damien, FBC Jax----------------------------
"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your father who is in heaven." Jesus Christ, Matthew 6:1
--------------------------
This is great - as a church they recognize their calling to actually serve the citizens of Jacksonville. Yes, Christians should be putting feet to their faith, and should serve and help others. Not just through ministry at church, but everyday at work and school and in their city.
But I think what is interesting is the way that FBC Jax, and other mega churches around the country, are using local ministry through the church performed by their church members, as a marketing tool. To do an act of kindness in your city through your church is now doing "missions". Instead of just quietly going about and serving Jacksonville, FBC Jax leadership wants to TELL everyone how great they are for serving. As Damien says in one of their AAJ promotional videos, FBC Jax media personnel will have camera crews all over Jax to film the ministry that they are doing on that one day. He explains they will produce a special video for everyone to see on Sunday morning and another special video for Sunday night - and you can bet they will see air time on their local TV broadcasts, and it will be featured on their web site.
Why not just go out and serve? Why film it all? Is that how ministry is to be done, with ministry brand names and t-shirts and film crews sent out to make videos of people serving? Isn't serving people and ministering to people what a church is SUPPOSED to be doing? Then why all the hoopla and cheerleading over what they SHOULD be doing anyways?
Truth is, long before the Brunson's came up with Arms Around Jacksonville, the people of FBC Jax HAVE been ministering in Jacksonville. Sure, no one gets any credit for it, but different Sunday School departments had and still have different projects all throughout the year. The difference now? Cameras to record it all, a brand name and logo, and t-shirts for everyone to wear and media professionals to produce slick videos.
Steve Gaines and Bellevue Baptist Church started a campaign several years ago called "Bellevue Loves Memphis" - same thing. They all got T-shirts, promotional items, they even purchased billboards to tell everyone just how much their church loves Memphis.
One other benefit to getting the peeps out for a day of "Arms Around Jax": FBC Jax wants to help their tarnished image over the past 4 years and combat the negative publicity of late. Said FBC Jax preacher Danny Crosby last month:
"If you took a survey and went door to door throughout the city of Jacksonville you won't always get a favorable response when you ask the question 'what do you think or know about the First Baptist Jax downtown?' They're not so excited as you are about this church. Why? 'Cause they read stuff that's not true [this blog?] They hear stuff that's not true. And they might have an occasional encounter with someone who says they represent our church. But you and I have the awesome opportunity to let others know what the real truth is: that we want to wrap our arms around this city for the glory of God. We want to be the arms of God to a lost and dying city. It's a dark place."More whining from the pulpit of how everyone misunderstands FBC Jax. Poor FBC Jax, they and their pastor have gotten a bum rap all these years as Mac complained about last week. Not sure what "stuff" Danny is referring to - but people these days have a pretty good idea what most mega churches like FBC Jax are into: raising money for buildings and renovations to their auditorium, salaries and benefits for professional ministers that make very comfortable livings, and guilting people to give 10% of their money to the church to fund and maintain the system. That is what keeps many people away these days.
And now ministry is used as another marketing tool to aid the leadership to keep the big ship afloat.
So if you are ministered to in Jesus' name this weekend by FBC Jax, be sure to smile for the camera - you might be in their next video!
And please, whatever you do, don't criticize the pastor or the church, don't ask about any salaries, and do not tell them that you read the Watchdog. They don't take kindly to such folks.
62 comments:
WD,
Thank you for continuing to expose the truth. For many years, my family and I were members of a large church which built a fancy new campus and became a megachurch. I began to have questions and conflicts about what I was seeing there - the exorbitant salaries, the businesses opening up on campus (bookstore, cafe), the inflated, ever-increasing prices of tickets required to see the annual Christmas drama, $30/hour for MEMBERS to receive counseling services, the exclusivity, the country club feel, etc. There were/are videos, billboards, and brochures advertising everything we did, including local missions projects. Every time I walked through the front doors, I would become annoyed at the ginormous sparkling gold chandelier hanging prominently in the foyer. To me, it was symbolic of what the church had become. I wrestled for years with my thoughts and concerns. I felt there must be something wrong with me, because no one else seemed to have a problem with these things. That's why we stayed for so long - we thought WE were the ones with the problem.
What people of the City of Jacksonville think about First Baptist Church Jax;
"They're not so excited as you are about this church."
What people of First Baptist Church think about the city of Jacksonville:
"....a lost and dying city. It's a dark place."
Yuck, a dark place or a dark people? Is it any wonder why people would think negatively of FBCJAX?
Poor Mac, complaining how rotten he's been treated. I believe FBCJ has treated him majestically. Excuse me Mac, but your church can remove you - you are not in control of your employment, the members are.
It's to bad Jacksonville has not wrapped their arms around you...this act of "Arms Around Jacksonville" is a one (1) day photo opt.
Listening to this video makes me think this man is about to have a nervous breakdown - his visable anger clearly comes through - what he doesn't realize his troubles were all brought about because of his own behavior.
I don't know what the helpful projects are, but will the people being helped WANT to be on camera? Maybe they'd appreciate some help but would like to not be shown to the world as needing help. Has this aspect even been considered?
Would the church members want to be on film if they were the ones being helped?
What are the projects?
It's kinda funny. Someone being helped could say, "Uh, well, thank you. Now, I shouldn't worry about these cameras pointed at me, because their purpose is to record you helping me?"
Anon 9:48,
Good point. Most of those being helped probably wouldn't want to be filmed. I spent many years in social work. Needy people often feel helpless and embarrassed that they are unable to meet their own needs and the needs of their families. Nonetheless, they will put their dignity to the side and consent to being filmed and photographed out of obligation to the church. Sadly, that's the price they're paying for getting help.
And now facebook and twitter have become places for people to "humbly" mention all the good things they do on a Saturday, and how good it makes them feel that they took time out of their busy lives to help someone in need. I get so tired of reading them...
Yes it is good and right to serve others. Yes it does produce a personal blesing. No it doesn't require a social media shout out and a slickly produced video.
WD - I am so glad you are out here doing what is right for the kingdom. I notice. Your reward will be great.
"...a lost and dying city. It's a dark place.
Yuck, a dark place or a dark people? Is it any wonder why people would think negatively of FBCJAX?"
Good thought. I believe Jacksonville is a bright and shining city filled with good if not great people. I stay away from churches who paint those not in their church as lost and in need of their Jesus.
I love my pastor, he is always reminding is of how wonderful we are. What an encourager.
You people have absolutely no right to criticize anything done today. People were served, ministered to, in the name of Jesus.
The reason cameras were sent out is because AAJ was a coordinated citywide, whole-day event. The members of the church will be able to be inspired to serve Christ everyday by seeing how God used them in one day through AAJ.
I'm on the media staff at FBCJax, and for you to demean the work and efforts we do to further the name of Jesus really makes me mad.
Lucky for me, I don't care because I don't get downtrodden by people like yourselves, all you can do is complain online behind the comfort of your own keyboards and screens, while our ministry reaches out to those on their keyboards and screens, to reach them for Jesus Christ.
Why don't you complain about Around FBC in 80 Seconds, then you can do it on a weekly basis!
Have an AWESOME evening.
So, Mac says he has endured personal attacks on his personhood and ministry. What a bunch of cry baby nonsense.
The local liberal rag ran a funny caricature of him, but so what. In China, they would do far worse. Mac, don't play the martyr card, you ain't there yet.
So, a blogger who asked some serious questions about your lavish upkeep and the clear nepotism and you condone a shakedown on 'le dog'. How despicable is that, we are not to use those nazi style tactics. Never, ever.
Don't you have it in you to take the heat and act with grace? At your pay grade, we kind of expect real leadership and spiritual maturity to reveal itself in these kind of moments. It's not like they have you in a cell and have extreme hardships.
NEXT!!
Media Staffer - don't take it so hard. You sound as thin-skinned as your pastor - resist that temptation and do not take the criticism of AAJ like a whiner. Besides, you are disobeying your pastor in the first place by even visiting this site, you should know better than come and read this.
Anyways, the criticism in my post is not at all aimed at the people doing the serving at FBC Jax. FBC Jax has for many years done local missions projects through the Sunday School classes. The criticism here is aimed squarely at the leadership of your church, Trey Brunson and Mac Brunson, who are marketing your service. Read it again, and take a chill pill.
... while our ministry reaches out to those on their keyboards and screens, to reach them for Jesus Christ.
As in ... this?
If i were one of the people "being served" i would feel totally and completely used. I would feel like a disposable prop.
Take away the cameras and the advertising by way of Tshirt and it might ring a little clearer with sincerity.
You can just feel the love, can't you, from the media person, and from a few folks twittering to me telling me to go complain about something else. As thin-skinned as their pastors. I guess "Arms Around Jacksonville" would be "hands around WDs neck". :)
Media Staffer said...
"for you to demean the work and efforts we do to further the name of Jesus really MAKES ME MAD.
Lucky for me, I DON"T CARE because I don't get downtrodden by people like yourselves,"
Sounds like a double minded person to me?
You know what would be AWESOME, get rid of that hypocrite pastor and the ones who brought him to Jacksonville in the first place.
Pride.......and they all went home to their "fine" Christan homes..
mac brunson
Our people went into some of the most dangerous sections of this city today with the gospel and love of Christ. So proud of this church.
5 hours ago
mac brunson
Church remember we should be about doing good - but if we don't share Jesus we leave them no better off, but still in spiritual darkness.
9 hours ago
mac brunson
@FBCJax on 84 sites - 1500 people involved loving on people in Jesus name. So moving to see parents leading their children to do ministry.
9 hours ago
mac brunson
@FBCJax is literally all over the city of Jax today. What a great congregation with a huge heart for Jesus and people.
10 hours ago
mac brunson
To all @FBCJax headed out to do Arms Around Jax remember Gods call means His mercies will be there to effectuate His command. Yournot alone!
11 Nov
Two things wrong with what media staffer said. First, he said people were complaining behind their keyboards. Isn't that what he was doing? Second, he said it made him mad that these people were complaining. And then goes on to say he doesn't really care. Strange. I agree with WD. Don't come to this site I you don't like what he says.
A homeless man mentioned to me that he ws as grateful for the "ministry" we were doing but that what really mattered is that this is only one day and that if we really cared we would be here on an ongiong basis. I think that this says it all.
It is like Christians giving away food and gifts around Thanksgiving and Christmas. It is only two days out of the year but the rest of the time we do little to nothing. The needs out there are year round, not just two times a year.
I am no fan of the corporate FBCJ, but WD is right. MANY good people at FBCJ and many did this with love, excitment, and compassion as their motive. We need to honor the efforts of the people. The criticism is against filming it all. As Jesus said, if you pray in public so people can see you, you already have your reward. Filming this smells of pride. Just do the ministry and leave the cameras out.
MEDIA STAFFER: are you not also publishing anonymously. Just use your name. I admit I do it anonymously.
Noted.
Everything has its own flaws, whether it be the megachurches, thoughts on policy, or other things.
Agreeing to disagree, I leave the comment board.
You are entitled to your opinions, I shouldn't deny you to that even if I don't like it.
Sleep puts stuff in prrspective.
Cheers.
Tweet from FBC Jax media person today:
"sifting through footage from 20 locations and five media crews from 1-day launch of city-wide community project at @FBCJax"
So many options in glorifying self.
It was very strange at the morning service today at FBCJ. All the lights were out except for a spotlight on the pastor. I was unable to read along in my bible, but the massage was mostly about science anyway. Very strange.
Media Staffer said: "The members of the church will be able to be inspired to serve Christ everyday by seeing how God used them in one day through AAJ."
Media Staffer, you do realize that as long as you force a strict groupthink onto a congregation for the sake of creating unity in the said congregation, the said group of people will persistently exercise very little personal motivation to proactively do things individually?
Like it or not, it seems that you are trying to use motivational videos to combat the negative side effects of your congregation's groupthink. But, unfortunately, motivational videos cannot fix the damage which imposing a strict groupthink on a congregation does.
WD, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill on this issue. Maybe the videos were a bit gaudy, for lack of a better term but, suggesting that the people put them together out of a self-righteous motivation is downright asinine.
As an aside, I serve with Damien and John Harrett (note the correct spelling) in the music ministry. They are two of our church's most talented and creative people. It's an honor to serve with them and I'm going to defend them on this site.
One more thing- While FBC members do ministry all the time, I'll guarantee you Arms Around Jacksonville increased it.
You missed the point. Not at all impugning Damien or John one single bit. They are not the "leadership" of the church and I'm not criticizing them, or any other of the media staff! Yes, they are extremely talented. I love John's and Damien's singing. John's testimony is powerful. This isn't about him or Damien.
The point of this post is to criticize the "marketing" of ministry in mega churches for the purposes of the pastor's and the church's brand. This was described as a "vision" of the pastor. It will be used to market the church and to pat your pastor on the back for his wonderful vision and leadership.
What FBC Jax people did in AAJ is to be commended, but don't pat yourself on the back too hard. Churches and civic groups all over this city do what your church did, and they do it quietly and without the video cameras and TV production crews to show their good works.
So keep doing good works...and stop reading this blog and obey your pastor. :)
"Churches and civic groups all over this city do what your church did, and they do it quietly and without the video cameras and TV production crews to show their good works."
I do think perhaps the camera crews and videos were a bit much. However, I really don't think the intent was for us to pat ourselves on the back. The videos were meant simply to show some of the things that were done for the benefit of people who were involved in other projects or didn't participate. It also wasn't an attempt to show others how righteous we are. The videos were for internal purposes.
As an aside, I'm not a huge fan of multi-media in church services. While it can be an asset used sparingly, in large doses it detracts from the dignity of the worship service.
"and stop reading this blog and obey your pastor. :)"
I've been reading this blog for years and have no plan to stop. While I have much respect for Pastor Brunson, I'm not really concerned with his opinion on what blogs I should read.
Fair enough...thanks for explaining your view.
FBC Choir Member said: “One more thing- While FBC members do ministry all the time, I'll guarantee you Arms Around Jacksonville increased it.”
I doubt it. Yes, church members who are operating under a groupthink will do ministry when their church pushes them to do a ministry of some sort directly or indirectly. However, the true sign of a groupthink is that if the said church does not push the said church members to do anything at all, then the said church members will mindlessly wait for the said church to direct them to do something else.
To illustrate, if Pinocchio is played very well by someone, then he may seem alive and quite busy. But, if the said person puts down his strings, then Pinocchio's appearance of being alive and busy is shattered and he is exposed as a lifeless toy.
So, here is the real question: If your church puts down its groupthink strings in its congregation, will your congregation still be alive and busy, FBC Choir Member?
Just a thought.
WD, You left one off for why people don't go back to churches: Guest cards! The guest cards are presented as part of a "welcome wagon" but really they are a marketing ploy designed to capture your personal information and begin screening you for how much money you might have available.
Although I do know better, I decided to visit a church this weekend at the urging of a friend. It went pretty well until the part at the end where they passed out tithing envelopes and waved them around in the air TD Jakes style.
Why can't I just go and listen to the service and then decide if I want to come back? If I don't want to fill out their guest card with all my personal information...including date of birth (excuse me???) I should be able to bow out of it gracefully and not be pressured. But no.
While attempting to leave, I was corralled into the "visitor's room."
A church minion latched onto me and fired off a list of questions, married? kids? job? The questions were so grossly insincere and so blatantly aimed at trying to uncover what resources I had and how soon a tithe check might be coming their way.
When I tried to put the "guest card" in my purse, she proceeded to pressure me about filling it out and even reached toward my purse to attempt to retrieve it. At that point, I stood up and began walking out. She followed me out of the room, down the hallway and out toward the parking lot.
These churches are going WAY over the top with their aggressive money grabbing. It is truly sickening.
I'd go back to the Catholic Church if the Pope wasn't calling for a world government.
It was very strange at the morning service today at FBCJ. All the lights were out except for a spotlight on the pastor.
Low lights hides the empty pews which are becoming more visible, altho the money still must be there to film and produce this productio.
I found it intreresting that the Pastor said it was his first visit to the Baptist Children's Home - shame, shame! Yes, another great history lesson.
On a positive side, the choir was as always great.
This is not a new idea - First Baptist Woodstock has been doing it for years except they call it their "LoveLoud" campaign and leave lovely little signs behind exclaiming the virtue of their actions. You can even order your t-shirt here: http://www.fbcwregistration.org/loveloud/default.asp to make sure you match with everyone else!
I think it is funny how focused it is on a single weekend - not that their are 51 other weekends to do the same thing. Regardless, just like JAX, the media team fans out with the members to record every heartwarming wheel chair ramp and house painting effort completed. Tears of joy are zoomed in on and prayer circles are carefully lit by the gleaming sunshine - and why again do we do all this?
Well, it is obvious what we as Christians are called to do but there is just no price high enough to "motivate those darn lazy members of the body of Christ".
Plus, the modern mega-church has 2 or 3 full time staff members only responsible for making videos so their salaries and expensive equipment must be justified somewhere! Can you imagine the man-hours expended in just shadowing members and producing the emotionally moving record of this one weekend of service? Imagine how much more work can be accomplished for Christ by putting down the cameras and picking up a hammer? Imagine how much more money could be invested in charitable organizations if the members giving wasn't dumped directly into a bloated payroll! Or if the members where not shamed into tithing away their money - they could perhaps, take a deep breath here...choose for themselves where to direct their financial blessing and accomplish their own tasks for Christ!!!!
It's all gotten so silly. FBCW built a full broadcast suite, video editing suite and a full recording studio into their new building back in 2005/2006 to the tune (sorry for the pun) of 1.5 Million+. Add in the hundred's of thousands of dollars of video equipment, custom built projection screens and broadcast quality lighting - you have yourself an investment that requires skilled staff to maintain on a weekly basis - which means higher salaries!
And that folks is how you end up with a video team recording every minute of the life of the modern mega-church. Aren't we all much more blessed because we get to see emotionally charged videos just before we take up the offering?!? Ah, I can just imagine a disciple angling for that perfectly framed shot of Jesus doing His Father's will with his $3,000 hand-held Cannon camera in the dusty roads of Jerusalem. I can see that final shot of Jesus and the rest of disciples walking away - fading in the frame while the camera slowly lowers to reveal the "LoveLoud" sign they stuck in the ground next to the leapers now empty blanket. Fade to black with the final chords of the heart-warming song underlying the scripture of choice and this blessing is a wrap!
Just the way God would have wanted it.
Some comments here brought this passage to mind:
Mary therefore took a pound of expensive ointment made from pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair. The house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. 4But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was about to betray him), said, 5"Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii[b] and given to the poor?" 6He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it. 7Jesus said, "Leave her alone, so that she may keep it[c] for the day of my burial. 8For the poor you always have with you, but you do not always have me."
I am assuming if for some reason the video equipment did not function properly, FBC Jax Media Ministry would not attempt to "re-enact" or duplicate the ministry. A humorous aside on this matter ...NYT > Years Later, Lawsuit Seeks to Recreate a Wedding.
I don't like Mac...
I don't like FBC Jax...
I don't like their ways...
I don't like their attitudes...
I don't like their website...
I don't like their videos...
I don't like their salaries...
I don't like their methods...
GROW UP!!!!!!
Like I always say - if you want to come across as mature and rise above everyone else's immaturity use six exclamation marks (!!!!!!).
I think that speaks for itself...
I Love Mac...
I Love FBC Jax...
I Love their ways...
I Love their attitudes...
I Love their website...
I Love their videos...
I Love their salaries...
I Love their methods...
Signed
The Pastor
PS
"The source of our problems is not God or people. We are the source of our problems."
Anonymous (November 14, 2011 2:12 PM) said:
"I don't like Mac...
I don't like FBC Jax...
I don't like their ways...
I don't like their attitudes...
I don't like their website...
I don't like their videos...
I don't like their salaries...
I don't like their methods...
GROW UP!!!!!!"
"Grow up" into what, Anonymous? Into the likeness of your Senior Pastor?
And, yes, this is a serious question.
No matter how much good the people of FBC,Jacksonville do for others, or for the cause of Christ, they will forever be the object of scorn and ridicule by the WD. The banquet of revenge serves up nothing but bitter leftovers.
More whining. "No matter how good we are, we still get attacked"
I see that the last post which I posted was censored.
Okay. I'm out of here.
Have a good day, WD. :-)
Nope, just stuck in the queue.
"Low lights hides the empty pews which are becoming more visible...."
Anon, I am glad you like the choir music. We work very hard to practice as unto the Lord and sing that way every time we are in the loft.
From where I sit in the choir every week the crowds are large. They do go up and down like every other fellowship based on the weather and the season but for the most part the sanctuary is rather full. And that is in spite of anything the FBCJAXWATCHDOG may pontificate on; which is his right and I support that right.
BUT, Obviously where you sit your vision is jaded.
Come on and join the choir and you will really see how well the attendance is in spite of what you perceive.
They found the storehouse!
I've been wondering where it was for decades.
Steve Gaines says that it is located at Bellevue Baptist Church.
Watch for yourself:
http://www.kewego.com/video/iLyROoafzZPf.html
"GROW UP!!!!!!"
ALL CAPS and six count them six exclamation points. Like a teen-ager.
You make me laugh troll.
You people have absolutely no right to criticize anything done today. People were served, ministered to, in the name of Jesus.
The reason cameras were sent out is because AAJ was a coordinated citywide, whole-day event. The members of the church will be able to be inspired to serve Christ everyday by seeing how God used them in one day through AAJ.
I'm on the media staff at FBCJax, and for you to demean the work and efforts we do to further the name of Jesus really makes me mad.
Lucky for me, I don't care because I don't get downtrodden by people like yourselves, all you can do is complain online behind the comfort of your own keyboards and screens, while our ministry reaches out to those on their keyboards and screens, to reach them for Jesus Christ.
Why don't you complain about Aroun
d FBC in 80 Seconds, then you can do it on a weekly basis!
Have an AWESOME evening.
November 12, 2011 7:42 PM
This is GREAT~! Here we have a staffer making your point for you, Tom. It certainly does not take any cognitive analytical skills to work at a mega church, does it?
So, he/she does not get "downtrodden" by us but comes here to vent.
Oh, and FBCJaxers need to see film of THEMSELVES helping people in order to be inspired. Too bad the Holy Spirit won't do.
This is so amusing and incoherent, it proves your point.
"I doubt it. Yes, church members who are operating under a groupthink will do ministry when their church pushes them to do a ministry of some sort directly or indirectly. However, the true sign of a groupthink is that if the said church does not push the said church members to do anything at all, then the said church members will mindlessly wait for the said church to direct them to do something else."
By this statement, You have no clue what the Body of Christ is. Probably because you have never been in one. They are hard to find.
FBC Jax Watchdog said: “Nope, just stuck in the queue.”
Thanks for clearing that up.
My apologies, WD. I am happy to be proven wrong on that. :-)
Anonymous (November 14, 2011 5:58 PM) said: “By this statement, You [sic] have no clue what the Body of Christ is. Probably because you have never been in one. They are hard to find.”
I don’t understand your point here. Are you saying that being part of the local Assembly of Messiah automatically entails being part of a groupthink of some sort?
Really, WD? Who in their right mind would want YOU to say anything positive about FBC Jacksonville? It's sad when an occasional sincere reader actually believes there is the possibility of legitimate dialogue here. Those who distill their words into actions like "arms Around Jacksonville" are a rarity, and have my praise and respect. Those who judge harshly by presuming to know the motives of others have no effective weapon against good. Predictably, Arms Around Jacksonville is attacked as just another marketing tool to increase the revenue of a large church. It is sobering to think that by the same standard we judge others, we ourselves will one day be judged.
Again, can't you just feel the LOVE from these people?
Blogger FBC Jax Watchdog said...
Again, can't you just feel the LOVE from these people?
What is it with you? Someone else judges your actions and you use the same line, "nobody loves me." This repeated, can you feel the love line sounds like a little boy looking for some pity. I see no love in anything you say. I can see why you got kicked to the curb by FBC Jax. You were likely just a high maintenance, selfish, egotistical blogger who loves to think that somebody agrees with him.
Who is watching the DAWG? Who is keeping him honest? Who is watching what he does with his money? Has he posted his salary? What does he do with his Saturday's? He is certainly not shameless self-promoting himself through this blog. Time for you to grow up Tom and move past trying to tear down FBC Jax. Did they do the right thing to you? I have no idea what the whole story is, but I would like to know who else besides you who has been escorted off the property of FBC? If its you and just a few others then maybe the problem is not group think. All of us have had hurtful and painful things in our life but how many years are you going to stalk Mac? Geesh, I am glad that I live nowhere near Jacksonville.
David,
Your so right, this blog is of the Devil,
even Donna Gaines says so
cha-ching
Look Dawg, whether you agree or disagree, we got the job done. You should get out to some of these communities. Some of these kids stand very little chance of even graduating from high school. Granted, there are some that might have gone out on the wrong pretense. The majority of us had nothing earthly to gain and genuinely just wanted to help out. I have to think that we did some good. I really do not see the downside.
BTW, the service was very different and I hope that it remains the exception. I like a well lit church so that I can read my Bible. A multi-media service might be okay once in a while.
As a side, "A lost and dying world" is a cliche that has been around as far back as I can remember. I cannot for the life of me recall a sermon or anyone officially saying " ..a lost and dying city." Do you have something on that or do you have bloggers that might make stuff up?
Anonymous said...
"I have to think that we did some good. I really do not see the downside."
Your not sure? You'd better take another drink.
Anonymous said...
" "A lost and dying world" is a cliche that has been around as far back as I can remember."
Yes, but it was over there, now your saying we're living next to heathens. Get out the pots...
November 14, 2011 10:39 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
David,
Your so right, this blog is of the Devil,
even Donna Gaines says so
cha-ching
Dear Anon,
Listened to the short video and I am struggling to see your sarcastic point. At least she eloquently and correctly pointed out that we are in a spiritual battle. So are you saying that every Christian author, pastor, and singer is just in it for the cha-ching? What a shallow hal you must be. In the words of the Dawg, "are you feeling the love these people have for God's servants?"
David
I would never be so crass to call someone a heathen. I do not insult others for their opinions.
I suppose that time will tell if we are wasting time or getting through to people that apparently need to know Jesus and a better way.
Not real certain what your point is anon 12:18. I hope that you have some intent to edify, otherwise please read Romans chapter 3 and 6 and know that Jesus loves you.
anon 11:36
Anonymous (November 14, 2011 10:39 PM) said: "Time for you to grow up Tom and move past trying to tear down FBC Jax."
While I can't speak for anyone else here, I'm here because I find the members of First Baptist Church of Jacksonville to be an interesting case study on the mentality of churchgoers.
Specifically, I would like to identify and understand the beliefs which cause them to express such an unrelenting and nearly unqualified support of their church.
But, thusfar, all that the members and random supporters of this church have provided here is pro-FBC Jax propaganda, personal attacks against FBC Jax Watchdog, and random pontifications.
So, members of First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, I'm ready to get started on doing this and laying down some brass tacks whenever you are.
I chuckle when you say "these people" like you know who they are. Actually, many of us have absolutely NO connection to FBC Jacksonville, and find your hobby of people bashing, whoever it may be, a tad bit scary and absurd. At least the accused deserve a the support of reasonable voices that are both objective and loving.
"So many options in glorifying self."
But then...
"They are not the "leadership" of the church and I'm not criticizing them, or any other of the media staff!"
"The criticism here is aimed squarely at the leadership of your church, "
Really?
"The criticism here is aimed squarely at the leadership of your church, "
I would choose to say the establishment instead of leadership, establish = stable, mind = mind, latin translation stable mind. because these people know exactly what they are doing.
FBC Jax Watchdog,
Speaking of ministry for the camera, have you heard about a ministry called "Prayer Stop"?
I've been watching their show on the NRB Network. From what I have seen on it, the folks at Prayer Stop seem to mean well. Through the use of their Prayer Stop booth setup, they teach you interesting and useful ways to break the ice and share the Biblical Gospel.
Yet, when I went to their website, I found that they actually charge $500 (or about $450 after some possible discounts) for their Prayer Stop Starter Pack with YIELD Signs. Plus, I also found items for sale such as "ice breakers" and the usual DVDs.
This raised some alarm bells with me. If they want Prayer Stop to become a wide grassroots movement, then why are they charging $500+ for the Prayer Stop Starter Pack with YIELD Signs and other various exhaustable supplies? Do they really expect the average Christian, including those who are financially struggling in this bad economy, to buy all this at this price?
Something doesn’t seem right here. I feel a gimmick raising its head here.
What do you think, WD?
Post a Comment