"When you're a Christian, the Holy Spirit of God lives in you and he will prompt you to do certain things. He will prompt you to read the bible and believe you're just supposed to do what it says. That's why I've never had a problem tithing...I read in the bible 'bring the whole tithe into the storehouse'...so when I see these commandments in scripture they're not suggestions, they are not just a few little helpful hints. But they are literally a commandment from God." Steve Gaines, 9/16/12, elevating tithing to the status of "commandment".
------------------------------------------
Steve Gaines never disappoints. Every six months or so he always manages to come up with a new twist to coerce his church members to give more and more money.
He has called his church members thieves, accusing them of driving stolen cars and eating stolen food. He has said God will make non-tithers' kids sick. He has said non-tithers' finances are cursed. He has threatened them even with death at the hands of God who hates liars. He has even said Christians must give 10% to his church before they can give money to the Red Cross to help orphans in Latin America.
He has called his church members thieves, accusing them of driving stolen cars and eating stolen food. He has said God will make non-tithers' kids sick. He has said non-tithers' finances are cursed. He has threatened them even with death at the hands of God who hates liars. He has even said Christians must give 10% to his church before they can give money to the Red Cross to help orphans in Latin America.
His latest absurdity is to state that not only are Christians obligated to tithe, but that if they are truly Christians, the Holy Spirit will prompt them to tithe, because tithing is a literal "commandment from God."
That is strange, because there are other "commandments" of God in the Old Testament - ones that are much clearer and direct than tithing - that I'm pretty sure the Holy Spirit is not directing Gaines to obey. However, Gaines doesn't explain how he is able to differentiate tithing from the other Old Testament statements such as:
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have
done what is detestable. They must be put to death; " (Lev 20:13); or
"If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him....then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you." (Deut 21:18-21)
It is a good thing the followers of Steve Gaines don't take his advice to "just do what the Bible says", else they would be killing homosexuals and stoning rebellious teenagers. But of course, when Gaines says "just do what the Bible says", he really means "just do what I tell you the Bible says". Let's hope a Bellevue satellite church in Guyana is not planned anytime soon.
Truth is, Gaines and his SBC mega-church cohorts are making this stuff up as they go along. The more over the edge they go with their fantastic stories and cherry-picking of laws in the Old Testament that serve their own self-interests, the more people are wising up - especially younger Christians who see these charletons for who they are, and unfortunately some are leaving the faith altogether.
Shame on you, Steve Gaines.
Truth is, Gaines and his SBC mega-church cohorts are making this stuff up as they go along. The more over the edge they go with their fantastic stories and cherry-picking of laws in the Old Testament that serve their own self-interests, the more people are wising up - especially younger Christians who see these charletons for who they are, and unfortunately some are leaving the faith altogether.
Shame on you, Steve Gaines.
62 comments:
Taken out of context.
He was not saying that literally, he was speaking figuratively.
It is sad that we now have Christians taking sound bites from sermons and roasting Pastors over a "phrase" rather than listening to the entire message.
Shame on you.
Readers: you can watch the video clip at the bottom of the post, or go to the bellevue.org church website and watch the entire sermon for full context.
Shame on us! You can't hear a semon from Steve Gaines (other mega preachers) without them "inserting" tithing - today's preachers are so focused on money & their own personal lifestile of greed! That's whats shameful!
Here's the thing...these guys are smart enough to know that the purpose of the tithe was to meet the needs of the Levite, fatherless, stranger, and widow (Deut.26:12-13) God's purposes were abundently clear to the people and they knew precisely where their offerings were going.
It's nothing more than manipulation to present in a sermon to induce guilt and fear. It would make an interesting study to track the number of times the word is mentioned from the pulpit of any one congregation without a scriptural explanation of it's OT purpose.
How did the Lord tell His people to build the temple?
By sacrificial giving!
How did Jesus save us from our sins?
By sacrificial giving!
How are we going to get the gospel of Jesus to the world?
Yes..sacrificial giving.
The people that hate sacrificial giving are the ones that never do it.
Classify yourself?
The people at Belevue deserve this guy. I would not listen to his rants and raves for 2 seconds.easelsoi 96
I choose to follow Amos 4:4 - Come to Beth–el, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after three years:
Yes, Gaines, I'll tithes, every three years as scripture says!
Of the most recent video absurdities from Steve Gaines, the one I find the most disturbing is the one from the interview he gave at the Southern Baptist Convention. In it, he states that the SBC has stopped emphasizing soul winning instead the SBC’s new strategy is to have “quality members,” that is members who follow what the leader pontificates. I also assume that these “quality” members must also subscribe without question to the leader’s interpretation of the Bible. Correct me if I am wrong but is that not a definition of a cult?
I can’t believe it!
Is there no shame!
Ok Troll I’ll feed you. I am also glad you agree with us. No one here has an issue with “sacrificial giving.” Sacrificial, Holy Spirit directed giving is what we advocate. Where we disagree is with the preaching that tithing is commanded and somehow makes you obedient.
In scripture, Jesus commends the widow for her faith in giving everything when she in fact should not have given anything. In fact, the priests and Pharisees should have been giving to her to meet her needs. Also in the story, the wealthy people were obedient in bring their tithes and offerings and yet Jesus had no commendation for their obedience!
New International Version (©1984)
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.”
Steve Gaines is terrible, Stephen Furtick is wrong, Perry Noble is a heretic, Ed Young Jr. is a jerk, Mac is the devil incarnate.
Don't you get tired of bashing people?
Don't you get embarrassed about your obsession with tearing down Pastors?
This blog is SO yesterday...we have moved on and in the words of our Pastor...
"God has spoken to my heart out of the book of Job: I should be very careful what I say to people. I should be very careful how I talk to people...many of you are struggling and going through difficulty and hardship right now....from my heart I want to say that to you: I deeply regret if I've ever offended you...if you speak as speak as much as I speak you're going to say some goofy things from time to time."
He has completely repented and moved on...why can't YOU?
"In scripture, Jesus commends the widow for her faith in giving everything when she in fact should not have given anything."
Just a slight but important correction here. Jesus never commended the widow for her giving, this too is a fabrication about the story. He never stated anything about the gift other than she gave more than the rich.
In fact, if one looks immediately after the incident one will find our Lord pronouncing judgement upon the entire corrupt legalistic system that would demand everything from a poor widow.
Here is a fantastic sermon by John MacArthur regarding abusing the poor...I highly recommend it.
http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/42-251/abusing-the-poor
Anonymous said...
Steve Gaines is terrible, Stephen Furtick is wrong, Perry Noble is a heretic, Ed Young Jr. is a jerk, Mac is the devil incarnate.
Don't you get tired of bashing people?
Wow! Anonymous, I bet you would have been offended with Jesus when he rebuked the religious leaders of his day too? Ever read Matthew 23?
Shows what a kool'aid drinker you are.
"Steve Gaines is terrible, Stephen Furtick is wrong, Perry Noble is a heretic, Ed Young Jr. is a jerk, Mac is the devil incarnate."
Hey everybody the troll is finally getting it!
Anon 3:31PM:
Yep, Mac's moved on - in fact he said he took his "executive committees' to Disney Land in last Sunday's sermon - wonder on whose dime? Not his for sure!1
"This blog is SO yesterday...we have moved on and in the words of our Pastor..."
Then why are you still posting comments here? It appears that you are still obsessed with this blog.
"He has completely repented and moved on...why can't YOU?"
Steve Gaines? That who the story is about. Please show me where he has repented and moved on.
Mac has apologized for his lack of gentleness in his speech.
What more do you people want? He is the Pastor...get over it...he is not going anywhere.
This Blog was birthed out of bitterness.
God's word speaks to us in 2 Samuel 2:26...“Must we always be killing each other? Don’t you realize that bitterness is the only result? When will you call off your men from chasing their Israelite brothers?”
Quit chasing Mac and start chasing after Jesus.
I feel sorry for you.
So what makes FBC of Memphis is the storehouse? I don't get how anyone utilizes Malachi 3:10 to say their church is "the storehouse." To me Protestant churches are divided and being defeated due to their faulty assertions. I am begining to think the true church has long evaporated when there are five churches within a mile of each other. I don't get it at all. I am close to quit going altogether. IN THE LETTER to the churches it is to the community of Philadelphia, Ephesus, etc. A lot of churches are going to be surprised at the end-time scenario because men like Patterson still assert pre-trib in their commentaries. Believin "The words of the prophets are written on internet wall."
In the book Pagan Christianity, it explains that the 10% tithe came out of middle-ages land rents paid to the Roman Catholic Church. I am reading a scholarly history book called Making Haste from Babylon-The Mayflower Pilgrims and Their World. On page 74 it reads," England had 9,000 parishes, each with a church and a minister. If he were lucky,the minister lived on tithes, paid by his parishioners, equal to a tenth of the gross produce of the land. If he were less fortunate, the tithes belonged to a local landowner...and the minister received only what they chose to give him. Money matter of this sort caused frequent quarrels...A parish and its tithes became property to be bought, sold, rented out, or mortgaged, by people motivated by ambition or greed as much as by religion." hmmm.... Also, please always be suspicious when someone can only point to the Old Testament to make their point.
"Quit chasing Mac and start chasing after Jesus."
Where is Mac mentioned in this story. Are you obsessed or what?
Did Steve Gaines force Joyce Rogers to move to another church? Why couldn't she support Steve Gaines?
What more do you people want? He is the Pastor...get over it...he is not going anywhere.
___________________________________
This post is not about Mac. He is not mentioned. But if the shoe fits...
Also, you can't say he is not going anywhere. He certainly is. Cruises, conferences, conventions, vacations, preaching gigs. He is always going someplace, anyplace.
Hey Troll, Gaines, and every tither out there...I DO follow what the Bible says. It says this CLEARLY and no need for GREEK or HEBREW translations or reaching to make it to apply to the New Testament:
1 Corinthians 9:7: Each of you should give what YOU have decided in YOUR heart to give, NOT reluctantly or under COMPULSION, for God loves a cheerful giver. (NIV)
KJV: 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
The Message: 6-7 Remember: A stingy planter gets a stingy crop; a lavish planter gets a lavish crop. I want each of you to take plenty of time to think it over, and MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND what you will give. That will protect you against sob stories and arm-twisting. God loves it when the giver delights in the giving.
So I do read the Bible and do what it says. Do YOU? Why are you ONLY giving 10% if your heart tells you to give more? Yet so many folks that could and should and want to give more, feel like they are keeping some commandment by giving ONLY 10% and even brag it. How do I know this? I hear preachers bragging about it! They only give 10%, even though they literally get 100% from the church offerings/budget themselves.
And you gullible sheep keeping forking it over to them. How they keep a straight face has got to be hard.
Mac has apologized for his lack of gentleness in his speech.
__________________________________
Has Mac apologized for his brazen love of money? Accepting a $307,000 land gift two weeks after arriving? Putting wife AND son on salary? Continuing to take God's money that was donated and keeping it for himself and his family? When he apologizes for this, we will know he has repented.
By the way, if Mac makes $300K per year, it will take him over 10 years of tithing at FBC before he even gives back one cent NET on what he was given. In other words, if FBC JAX ever gave me $300K, and I gave them $30K per year for the next 10 years. (and bragged about it and said you also need to give $30K per year), I really haven't given them one dime have I? He is merely giving FBC money someone else already gave him two weeks after he came. But yet he still needs and wants more. Those annual cruises are free for him and his family, yet he continues to ask for more and more. And the poor get the leftovers. Sheesh! And you call yourselves Christ like.
Devil's (or in this case, Steve's) reluctant advocate:
If he had pointed out that the language is an imperative (of which there are many outside of the Decalog), would his position be a bit more palatable (even for those of us who wait for him to expand ridiculous to a whole new level)?
Just askin'
Don't go to FBC, LEAVE!!! Our Pastor does not force anyone to go on a cruise, I know for a fact he leads people to Jesus every year on that evangelistic cruise.
Quit complaining about Mac, Mac will be Mac.
Peter had a big mouth too but Jesus handed him the keys.
Leave Mac and his amazing family alone.
We like things the way they are.
Why is it that the professional clergy want YOU to serve Jesus and PAY INTO THE POT...
BUT They will not serve Him unless they are paid OUT OF IT?
Stop tithing to these thieves and robbers, hirelings, and extortioners. It would be better to give your money directly to a struggling believer than to a wealthy hireling.
"Steve Gaines is terrible, Stephen Furtick is wrong, Perry Noble is a heretic, Ed Young Jr. is a jerk, Mac is the devil incarnate."
Amen!
You know, I wouldn't mind tithing so much if the pastors didn't live like royalty while members of the congregation have a hard time making ends meet.
There are people in the church I attend who have a hard time buying food, while the pastor preaches at least 2 times a month on giving....BTW: He drives a new Lexus.
You know, I wouldn't mind tithing so much if the pastors didn't live like royalty while members of the congregation have a hard time making ends meet.
There are people in the church I attend who have a hard time buying food, while the pastor preaches at least 2 times a month on giving....BTW: He drives a new Lexus.
Hey Keith Farmer, I agree technically you are 100% correct but I think that’s a mighty fine theological hair you’re splitting. Personally, if Jesus said that about me I’d probably be doing hand springs and cart wheel. Thanks for the correction. However, it is a bit disappointing that that is your only take away from my comments.
There is a strong strain against tithing among those who are theological conservatives. Old line fundamentalists such as I. M. Haldemann were against tithing, as are their descendants such as John MacArthur. What a person gives to a church is nobody's business and is between that person and God. One of the most atrocious abuses I have heard about regarding tithing was when Catholic deacons harassed a friend for not giving enough money to the Catholic church, in other words, for not fulfilling his obligation to the tithe. This is not Biblical in my view.
There is a strong strain against tithing among those who are theological conservatives. Old line fundamentalists such as I. M. Haldemann were against tithing, as are their descendants such as John MacArthur. What a person gives to a church is nobody's business and is between that person and God. One of the most atrocious abuses I have heard about regarding tithing was when Catholic deacons harassed a friend for not giving enough money to the Catholic church, in other words, for not fulfilling his obligation to the tithe. This is not Biblical in my view.
"This Blog was birthed out of bitterness."
I can imagine many loyalists making that charge about the signers of the Declaration of Independence.
Mac Brunson's "apology"
"This Blog was birthed out of bitterness."
No, the blog was birthed out of lack of accountability.
Your reaction to the blog was birthed out of bitterness. You just can't deal with the fact that your hero was held accountable in court and forced to apologize.
Don't be a sore loser.
"Hey Keith Farmer, I agree technically you are 100% correct but I think that’s a mighty fine theological hair you’re splitting. Personally, if Jesus said that about me I’d probably be doing hand springs and cart wheel. Thanks for the correction. However, it is a bit disappointing that that is your only take away from my comments."
So you agree that I am correct?
Yet you assert that to disagree with the statement you made which has our Lord commending someone for adhering to an apostate religious order is splitting a fine theological hair? I would vehemently disagree with that assessment and would direct you to take a look at the history of judgements Israel faced as the result of following various apostate/pagan religions throughout their history. This is no fine hair...the truth is paramount especially when it comes to dealing with false religious orders.
I wept as I watched once again our Pastor humble himself and apologize. What a great Leader!
Tom has NEVER apologized. His attacks on Mac's family were so bad that Mac was fearful of his own life.
Pastor was the picture of Jesus as he sincerely asked for forgiveness.
Watchdog has fleas, all he can do is bark and bite at God's man. WE ARE TIRED OF THIS TRASH!!!!
Father, forgive him, he does not know what harm he is doing. I come against this blog in Jesus name, I come against the spirit of rebellion that is on these pages. Have mercy on those who attack your Pastors, protect your shepherds from these wolves Lord. Thank you for the victories at our Church and for extracting the demons from our church. We love our Pastor and thank you for bringing him to our Body, bless FBC
In Jesus name
Reading the TROLL's last two comments (he posts as different people), I have come to the conclusion that he is pulling our leg. No one could be that gullible and ignorant of scripture could they?
Wow! I can tell from the comments above that someone is trying to protect the modern day indulgence preachers just like they did before the protestants left the apostate religious institution of their day. Tithing preachers of today are no different than the rogues that extorted money from people during the dark ages with the teaching of indulgences. God raised up men like Martin Luther to challenge these men then, and I am glad He is raising up men and bloggers like Tom to stand against the rich false shepherds of our day too. It is too bad that people cannot see through these hirelings, but then again Jesus said that they would think that they are rich and in need of nothing, but they are to blind to see that they were wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked, just like the deceived in Laodicea.
What some of you Bible rejecters ignore is that there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus. The blood has carried that sin as far as the east is from the west. One of the best sermons Mac ever preached was in Dallas on this subject...get the tape and listen to it. We are all different..deal with it and quit judging each other unless it is unsound doctrine..then go for it but not each other. Thr truth will set you free.
quit judging each other unless it is unsound doctrine..then go for it but not each other. Thr truth will set you free.
You don't think elevating tithing to an OT "commandment" that must be obeyed is unsound doctrine?
It's certainly pounded into the laity over and over ad nauseum. And the watchdog is helping to clarify the unsound doctrine so people can be set free according to the truth!
"What some of you Bible rejecters ignore is that there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus."
Is there anything more ironic than a person who calls someone an ugly name and then immediately quotes a verse about "no condemnation." Sheesh.
"One of the best sermons Mac ever preached..."
This thread is not about Mac. So, why are acting like it is?
"We are all different..deal with it and quit judging each other unless it is unsound doctrine..."
You do realize that when you make that statement that you are doing exactly what you are advising others not to do, right?
That's exactly the point. You just can't see it because you elevate a man above the word of God.
It is sad that Blogs like this exist.
I don't think Jesus likes it.
My son read some of this last night and he asked me if the author of this blog was a Christian.
I said, "I don't know".
I really don't?
Protestant churches are hooked on tithing. However, if they stopped competing with each other in the same market and instead worked together, then they may not need to preach the shackles of the law are still bound on Christians. However, the likes of Ed Young, Steve Gaines, and others- their egos will not let that happen. They want/crave/need the money, position and power.
I did not elevate anyone, I just called your attn to a sermon regarding no condemnation that Mac preached in Dallas. I am not familiar with any other sermon on this topic. I did not call anyone a bad name. If you note the Bible says we do not fight against flesh and blood. Get real.
Going to Church this morning with my tithe in my pocket, a bible in my hand, and a joy in my heart!
This Blog is dead and the power of Satan has been overcome!
Our SS class has prayed for years for this day and I believe this blog will cease by the end of 2012.
Thank you Jesus
I would like to make a comment about the past 2 Sundays(Sept. 30 and Oct. 7)at First Baptist Jax. At first I wasn't quite sure If I was going to enjoy listening to Trey Brunson preach, but after listening to him again today I thought how nice it was for someone to preach to us instead of preaching down to us. Trey didn't ask for us to amen him or say if we were charismatics we would be dancing in the aisles after Mac Brunson says something that he thinks should have gotten a response. I think Mac could learn how to preach to your congregation from his son.
Trey learned to preach from his Dad so stop your hating on Mac. It sickens me that people like to "sermon sample" instead of focusing on Jesus.
Anon. 6:25....You make me sick.
Go to another Church and "bless" us with your absence.
TROLL - please get a job or do something constructive to occupy your time.
Here are a few suggestions:
1) Read your Bible and learn the difference between what the Bible teaches and what your pastor preaches
2) Learn and be humbled by the fact that your 10% "tithe" is less than 1/2 of what the OT Israelites gave
3) Observe the fact that Jesus was the most harsh critic of the religious leaders of his day
4) Stop worshiping your pastor as if he were Jesus or the pope (infallible)
5) Learn that prayer is designed to conform your will to God's will - not the other way around
TROLL - please get a job or do something constructive to occupy your time.
Here are a few suggestions:
1) Read your Bible and learn the difference between what the Bible teaches and what your pastor preaches
2) Learn and be humbled by the fact that your 10% "tithe" is less than 1/2 of what the OT Israelites gave
3) Observe the fact that Jesus was the most harsh critic of the religious leaders of his day
4) Stop worshiping your pastor as if he were Jesus or the pope (infallible)
5) Learn that prayer is designed to conform your will to God's will - not the other way around
TROLL - you may want to consider breaking the Xanax in half.
This blog isn't going anywhere because there's too much to write about in Christendom.
Ed Young is at it again. There's now a McFellowship in South Carolina. It looks like a church there has given up its identity to become another satellite of Ed Young Franchises, Inc. I guess what this means is that they will change their name and put all of EY's merchandise in their bookstores.
That's a lot mo' money fo' Ed. Taking his empire to a ho' notha' level. Say it with me a ho' notha' level!
Tithe tithe tithe....blah blah blah
Leave tithers alone.
So how would you build the Kingdom of God? Would it be thru the Internet?
You are a slave to Satan because He is against the tithe too.
Anon and everyone else, what is your criteria for guessing and or determining if someone is a Christian?
“So how would you build the Kingdom of God?”
The same way it has always been done, by the Word of God and by testifying to the living hope that is in us through the power of the Holy Spirit.
"You are a slave to Satan because He is against the tithe too."
Where in the Bible does it say Satan is against the tithe? I read the Apostle Paul is against it, but not Satan. I think Satan likes the tithe because it keeps Christians focused on something other than Christ.
"Our SS class has prayed for years for this day and I believe this blog will cease by the end of 2012."
Wow! Only 12 weeks to go before we find out that your Sunday School class cannot get a prayer through.
Hey watchdog, how about a countdown clock or something?
related: https://www.change.org/petitions/the-president-of-the-united-states-revoke-tax-exempt-status-of-political-churches#
"Every year, the Religious Right pushes "Pulpit Freedom Sunday". They encourage pastors to endorse candidates from the pulpit. This sort of electioneering violates the IRS 501(c)(3) code, and should result in revocation of tax-exempt status."
"Tithe tithe tithe....blah blah blah. Leave tithers alone."
That is some brilliant logic TROLL. Hard to come against the solid foundation of exegesis you have built up there. Is this referred to as "The Britney Spears Apologetic technique?"
Do you set up an appointment with the shot nurse every fall so that you are immune to sound doctrine?
"So how would you build the Kingdom of God? Would it be thru the Internet?"
Your statement implies that God can not build his kingdom on Earth without money and that he would not be able to use the most powerful communications tool ever invented. Both suppositions are false.
"You are a slave to Satan because He is against the tithe too."
How did you come to the conclusion that Satan is against the OT tithe? Please use scripture to support your view.
Should Christians start observing other OT law that was directed to the Theocracy in Israel?
Ceremonial Cleansing before entering the temple (church)?
Animal sacrifice?
Stoning of disobedient children?
OT dietary restrictions?
Why or why not?
COUNTDOWN: 83 days
That's when we will find out if the TROLL's prayers are in God's will or not.
"Our SS class has prayed for years for this day and I believe this blog will cease by the end of 2012."
Isn't the world supposed to end on December 21st anyway?
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