I warned Seth this morning via text, "Don't be surprised if you're escorted off the property".
And I was right.
The head of security for FBCW, John Day, detained Seth for about 10 minutes near the Brewton Parker booth in the lobby, prior to the service. Finally Seth's Sunday School teacher convinced Mr. Day to allow Seth to go in for the service. While he was in the service, security men were seated near Seth to watch him.When Caner's sermon was over, Seth moved out a side door to attend his Sunday School class, but he was intercepted by security and told he would not be allowed to go to Sunday School and had to leave the premises.
Seth was escorted all the way to his car.
This is the depth that the Southern Baptist Convention has fallen to. A man named Ergun Caner who lied for
an entire decade about being a trained Jihadist to rise to stardom, who then sued two Christians who dared to expose his lies - and then was told by a federal judge that his lawsuit was a harassment of a critic and an exploitation of our judicial system - HE is invited and welcomed to preach.
But the church member who dared to speak out against it - well he is viewed as a threat and escorted off the property.
This is the NEW Southern Baptist Convention.
Liars welcome. Truth tellers beware.
Seth, they probably already have trespass papers filed with the county against you. And probably your wife. Trust me, I know how it works.
Johnny Hunt, shame on you. I used to have some amount of respect for you, but that has just gone out the window.
Seth, they probably already have trespass papers filed with the county against you. And probably your wife. Trust me, I know how it works.
Johnny Hunt, shame on you. I used to have some amount of respect for you, but that has just gone out the window.
56 comments:
What is FBCUnderwood afraid of? That Dunn is going to stand up in the service and yell "Ichabod!"? Or is it Hunt who's afraid to let Caner's sermon go unchallenged? I'm betting on the latter; he's likely feeling the pressure from the blogosphere and doesn't want any more.
You, he could dismiss as "Well, he wasn't there." Dunn, he couldn't--until now.
Johnny Hunt, shame on you. I used to have some amount of respect for you, but that has just gone out the window.
I echo this statement along with a huge amount of disgust.
I hear of people like you or Dunn being escorted out of a Southern Baptist church and I cringe. It's no longer a church when this happens. It then becomes an institution, a business, but it is no longer a Christ dwelling church. Christ was no longer welcome years ago.
Seems to me Seth should file suit against the head of Johnny Hunt, the church and head of security for unlawful detainment? What did he do wrong to deserve being detained? Was he read his miranda rights? He should also contact every news agency in the area and have the church and security process be investigated. This would also in the process expose more light on Caner and his doings.
If I were Seth, I would not let this die. I would start using all forms of media to highlight what was done to him and put the church and Hunt and security and everyone involved in the limelight being questioned about the way he was treated.
Remember larger churches are much more cultic than smaller ones. By cultic, I mean that they are much more likely to blindly follow the pastor without asking questions
Let's see, allowed to attend church services, and then on his way to Sunday School, he is kicked out of church?
Why?
After church he is then kicked out?
Is is just me, but isn't that too late? He didn't stir up trouble during the service....were they afraid of he might say something during SS?
And yes, he doesn't need to let this go away. He needs to contact the press....
There are several questions whose answers would be of interest. Who instructed the security people to deal with Bro. Dunn? What were they told? And as (anony-6:19) said, "After church he is then kicked out?" What was this supposed to accomplish.
Unfortunately, the invitation simply seems like a way to help Dr. Caner pay his (legal) bills. The issues with Bro. Dunn seem to be (sort of) unintended consequences.
You would think that people would learn that if you just stay quiet, things usually work out. Ergun has come close but then he filed the lawsuits and blew it.
I don't think that this will end quickly--at least it should not.
I've said all along that the SBC and many other Charismatic mega-churches have turned into a religious mafia. Folks, ALL OF US need to wake up and smell the coffee. These are not nice people.
These are the same people who will turn you over to a corrupt government when and if the day of persecution comes. They will gladly accept and promote the system of the beast.
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John 16: 1 - 4 (KJV)
1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
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We are living in perilous times. Jesus prophesied this. This should not comes as a shock to anyone who has studied the New Testament. Unfortunately, the "devils" are turning out to be the ones that most of us thought were the "angels". Wolves in sheep's clothing. False teachers. False prophets. Jesus WARNED us.
Something similar happened to a member of my family, all because they were not in agreement....all because they were not "YES" people. We left a huge church back in the 90's. Years down the road, there was a church split. You reap what you sow.
Some of these church leaders need to get saved. I honestly don't think a lot of them ever really experienced true salvation.
Thank God for Seth Dunn. It is refreshing to see that there are still young men of God who will carry the banner of righteousness. Seth, just remember, Jesus loved people, preached the truth, fed the thousands, healed the sick and cast out devils......and the religious people gleefully rejected Him.
Neptune: We would most definitely disagree on the Bible teaching on the end times, but where we do agree is this: These are not nice people. I would add these are not good people.
I think about what the church is suppose to be and then I read this. It breaks my heart.
First of all, I strongly agree that what occurred is very concerning.
I think that before you raise the issue you should check to see if he would be afforded "miranda" rights in a situation like this. I strongly agree that this is not right. However, comments like these, that throw around legal terms that the commentors don't have a full understanding of, do not help the situation.
Seth was wanting to cause trouble and that is why we wanted him out.
It was done in love and grace. Seth is a good brother who has been spending too much time reading trash like like this blog.
Pastor Hunt told us that there were liars like you on the internet...I couldn't believe it when I saw the hatred and vile posted here.
Shame on you.
Alright Ken Avery. So are you saying that Ergun caner is NOT an unrepentant liar?
Debbie:
My grandmother used to teach me about the great falling away in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.
What we are seeing is prophetic. You and I both know that these are not good men of God. They are ravenous wolves. God help the poor souls who have no spiritual discernment whatsoever. Seriously. God help them.
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2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
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I think the Bride of Christ is in for a shock, when it's all said and done. Church members are in for a shock. Left is right. Right is Left. Black is White. White is Black. Up is Down. ....and the sheep keep falling off the cliff....
The gullibility of the modern American church is simply mind-numbing. I have never seen so many naive and gullible church members. Even highly educated people have chosen to drink the Kool-Aid. I am actually to the point where I think people enjoy being deceived.
If we really knew who these so-called religious people are, it would probably scare the heebie-jeebies out of us. There is a very dark underbelly in the religious world right now. The snake oil salesmen of yesteryear seem mild compared to the dark spirits of the modern church leaders.
Frankly, what happened to Seth shouldn't be taken lightly. This is serious business. Since we live close to Brewton-Parker, I can personally attest to the dark cloud of oppression that has settled over this area since Ergun Caner was hired. I've even talked to other people who said that something has happened in the last six months. They can feel the spiritual darkness. Most won't publicly say it, but many are disturbed by him.
Debbie, I know that we may not always theologically agree, but I do believe that you love the Lord and are as upset about this as I am. This area really needs prayer. I must say that my spirit is very troubled. This area already has a major drug trafficking problem. The last thing this community needs is a pathological liar and a worker of iniquity for college president.
Evil has made its presence known in Montgomery County.
LA says:
The tawdry saga of Ergun Caner's decade of deception -- and the questionable wisdom of supporting him -- is not only damaging to the organizations with which he becomes associated, but it some fashion, to the testimony of Christianity in general.
A reasonable skeptic might ask:
With modern day's plethora of communication and fact-checking ability, if Christian leaders are unwilling to display a dedication to truth -- or expose blatant fraudulence -- what dynamics and machinations were at play when early church fathers set about to solidify their own positions in fashioning their version of the Jesus legend?
When I was escorted out, I was on the way to Sunday School with a lost person whom I had brought with me.
I was walking to Sunday School with my Sunday School Teacher when John Day stopped me.
I'd wager Thomas Monson tells people about liars on the internet, too.
Ken Avery
You are protecting and defending a proven liar, shown by two federal judges to be a liar. Caner should not be allowed in any pulpit. He is a heretic, a disgrace, and your pastor and staff are joining him in that regard.
Hey Ken,
When your church leadership, pastor, invites a FAKE like Caner, knowing 100% he is a FAKE, that pastor should be relived of his position as pastor.
If you do not know how bad and deceitful a liar Caner is and what he has done in lying to churches, youth groups and to the military about who he is, or says he is, then you have no business writing what you just wrote.
Before you say anymore you need to do some research. You might even find out you were wrong about the Watchdog and the man, FBCW member, who was escorted off the church property. And you wonder why folks are leaving the church, yes SBC churches in droves.
We have left the SBC after serving 14 years on the staff of churches in Fl and 27 years with the IMB in Japan. The SBC just isn't the church I grew up in and loved with all my heart. Fortunately, I had wonderful pastors and ministers of music to guide me.
Because of men like Caner and pastors like Hunt, I just cannot bear to attend a SBC church.
Former church staff and IMB missionary
@Ken Avery,
Too bad Pastor Hunt did not warn you about the liar behind the pulpit in your church this morning.
Also, there is no hatred or vileness, unless it comes from the supporters or Caner and his cronies.
It is amazing how they all profess the love of Jesus, yet will sue someone or stand behind someone who will sue when their career of lies is exposed.
I wonder if you would call the Honorable Judge Moon a liar and vile for the very same reaction towards Caner that we have. The only difference between he and the rest of us, is he has the ability to do something to punish Caner for being so vile and such a liar.
I will pray for you, just like I pray that Caner stops the lies and deceit behind the pulpit.
Let's not forget this is a serial road show.
Caner's next scheduled performance comes Tuesday Aug 29th at the "Stand with BPC" campus gathering.
This is probably the most excitement we've seen since BB's mules got loose and wandered onto the BPC campus. Truly that was a sight.
Two mules following BB's red pickup truck off the campus and down Highway 280 to their home pen.
The mule removal was front page news at the Montgomery Monitor. Actually, the focal point of the photo was the east end of a pair of west bound mules.
Back to "Stand with BPC".
Maybe Caner will triumphantly unveil the new BPC seal. Surely by now, he has located the Latin word for gravy that he indicated on Twitter would more accurately reflect the school's understanding of higher education.
(P.S. These poor people haven't figured out that he was laughing at them even before he arrived. Now, to the business at hand. Cash them.)
Note to the BPC fundraiser. This accreditation crisis is your annual fundraiser. Six months from now when you try it again, you will be told, "I just gave six months ago." Caner has lots to learn about where he is. When it comes to their money, it goes beyond gravy.
When I see this type of Gestapo tactic being used it should concern many in SBC life...James White asserted points clearly. False testimony of another is present and counter statements NEED to be cleared up. Either Caner is guilty of a false testimony of others or they stand corrected. Let's clear this up....please for the love of God and testimony before others. It has been the most divisive issues in the last two years and has been all over the blogosphere.
Yes,Mr. Hunt. You are a part of the TBN family. A big part and you fit it with them perfectly.
I was at FBC Woodstock on Sunday. I was a witness to everything described in this blog entry. I believe Ken Avery is entirely wrong. What I saw was not done in love and grace but in intimidation.
Hey, if you are a mega-church pastor (keep in mind, the membership is in the kilo range, the salaries are in the mega range!) and being richly rewarded without regard for what you say or do, then putting a proven liar in the pulpit is OK. Lies from Caner just reflect that fact that the average mega-church pastor tells lies multiple times a year, as in when preaching the tithe. So one liar backs the other.
Ken Avery said...
Seth was wanting to cause trouble and that is why we wanted him out.
It was done in love and grace. Seth is a good brother who has been spending too much time reading trash like like this blog.
Pastor Hunt told us that there were liars like you on the internet...I couldn't believe it when I saw the hatred and vile posted here.
Shame on you.
Who are the we Ken? And in light of Seth and Dave MacFarland's statements as to what happened I am curious as to what response you would have. None?
How do you escort someone out of a church with security and in front of someone without Christ brought as a guest, in love and grace Ken? That I am very curious about.
Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
I am rather curious to the content of Caner's sermon...anybody?? It is not yet posted on the internet...Seth...great blog...my only comment would be why in the world you would take an unsaved person to hear Caner? That would have been my last thought...otherwise I can appreciate your own attendance...church family and all...
Anon 8:35 - Seth was interviewed by J.D. Hall of Pulpit and Pen last night, you can go to his website to hear it. Seth explains the entire ordeal, including taking his friend with him. The man he took knew of the Caner controversy, has family at the church, so when you hear Seth's explanation it will make more sense.
Maybe I'm late to the party but went to church start having "security"?
I have no dog in this fight in either direction so I am not really concerned how either side takes this reply. I am not SBC.
It definitely appears Ergun Caner has not been exactly forthright in all of his claims and he will be subsequently accountable for those actions as well as his repentance or lack thereof. Men like Johnny Hunt will also be accountable for their choice to have Ergun speak for them. I am sure there is way more to the story than any observer or participant on either side will ever know.
But I would also say that guys like Seth Dunn & co. do themselves no favor in how they act during these moments. Reading Seth's tweets and listening to him on JD's radio program, his motive seems impure at best. No neutral observer could read the conversation prior to Sunday and believe Seth was going to FBCW with pure motives. And if people feel you are doing things to get in the limelight or gain publicity, it comes across disingenuous. The idea that guys like Seth, JD, etc are talking about this issue in the manner they use because they have so much love and concern for Johnny, Ergun, etc is laughable for any outside, neutral reader such as myself. When speaking the truth in love, the "in love"part does actually matter. And it is not the love of hearing oneself talk or pushing people to your blog or radio program.
I think I would take guys like this far more seriously if their tones were different. Once you start making fun of, ridiculing, making assumptions, trying to generate traffic to yourself, and so forth, you lose credibility and neutral observers stop listening or taking you serious.
Just my opinion.
I'm sure both sides will continue to talk among themselves and not really make much impact in either camp.
Life in evangelicalism is so fun and entertaining at times.
Paul, I couldn't agree more with your comments about both sides. I think Caner has been dispicable, however, those seeking to call him out on his sin, haven't exactly been blameless in this either.
Remember Mike Warnke?? One whom claimed in churches he was an "expert on Satanism" as a former high priest? And what about evangelist Tony Anthony? Frauds...sad that churches failed to do due diligence.
Paul,
Seth is a member at Woodstock and he was escorted out of his own church for what reason? Just because he talked with others about his problem Johnny Hunt allowing Ergun Caner to preach is a cause for him to be escorted out.
Paul, have you seen the list of lies of Ergun?
http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-ergun-caner-affair-one-collation-of.html
Patrick, you comment seems fairly typical of new commers to this problem. Have you been keeping up with it for the years it has been going on?
Read my public statements on the matter. My clear motive has been to promote stewardship and accountability.
If you don't think that "pure", then okay.
I think you should think harder and speak more carefully next time.
Blameless in what exactly, Patrick? What is "this".
I've stated from the beginning that my problem is asking church members to finance charlatanry. It could be any charlatan, Caner is just the charlatan du joir.
gsethdunn, have they given you a reason for asking you to leave and what is your recourse now? Will someone meet with you and answer your questions?
It is amusing how when someone does not agree completely with how the "opposition" is handling the situation that it is somehow because the observer is not as "informed" as they should be or less concerned about the truth.
I am well aware of the Caner situation. I am well aware of the accusations. It is also obvious from neutral observers like myself that there is an unhealthy obsession over the matter.
And the obsession does not make you more concerned over the truth than anyone else.
Sorry to break the news to you Seth but your blogs, radio interviews, etc speak for themselves. You said you "loathe" your pastor before you went to FBCW on Sunday. I'm not sure if you know the exact meaning of that word but it is definitely not a neutral or Christ-like word. Even the casual observer knows why you went to FBCW on Sunday after not having been there for an extended period of time. I have no idea if escorting you out was the right or wrong thing to do but based on everything you said prior to the event, I am not surprised it happened. You came for one reason & it was not to bring your lost friend or because you love Johnny or Ergun so much. You have already admitted that you "talked about" (some might substitute gossip here) this matter with your SS class. It seems obvious you want the attention that comes with this matter. And I am not surprised those who oppose Caner are making you a hero over it.
Again, I am not biased toward either side of this issue but I could have predicted what was going to happen long before Sunday morning.
You said you were being told to get pictures, etc. You were on the phone with one of Caner's top adversaries by that afternoon. Come on. It is obvious what is going on here.
The irony of this entire discussion is that only one side of it seems obsessed by it. And they are basically talking in circles to themselves. Maybe at some point it is wise to wash your hands and walk.
I can only imagine the amount of church time and resources that have been spent on discussing Ergun Caner online. I am sure a lot of the people calling for accountability are not being held accountable for the amount of time they have spent on this issue instead of their own flock.
Just my observations. I'm sure they will fall on deaf ears and I will simply be dismissed as "uninformed" because that is simply easier than to recognize the unhealthy obsession this has created among a few.
You say you are unbiased and neutral. Really??
Paul,
Our scars tell our story and God wants to use our story.
I guess a lot of people have an "unhealthy obsession" with trying to prevent unrepentant charlatans from continuing to prosper on the congregational dime.
Well, gee, when you put it that way it sounds perfectly within reason doesn't it?
Paul, what is your proposed solution? I'm interested in knowing.
How does the neutral observer see this situation, and what would they do to actually solve the problem?
Thank you Tom for proving my point. I can't be unbiased and not have your same perspective? You simply validated my post. I knew someone would.
Moses - we all have scars God wants to use. It is how we choose to tell our story that tends to matter.
Simon C - not sure it is your responsibility unless you are actually involved in the lives of these men or attend their churches. You are obviously hand picking this charlatan. So why are you choosing this particular instance and not the thousands of others you could select? Do you have a personal reason to choose this situation?
I am not saying I have a solution. As I stated earlier, it appears Ergun has been guilty of many of the accusations. Johnny Hunt chose to have him preach in his pulpit. I'm sure there is more to the story than any of us know. Both men are accountable to God for their actions. They are not accountable to me.
On the other hand, many of the accusers have pretended to care for and love these men and have suggested that is why they are calling them out. Their words and actions indicate otherwise. Seth Dunn said he "loathes" JH. Strong word for someone who claims to want what is best.
I would simply suggest that the average bystander would label this ongoing discussion an unhealthy obsession by some. Pick your battles - just call them what they are.
Not trying to prove anything on either side. Just observations from a bystander.
Paul,
I am open to suggestions, but so far every suggestion (from not just you) seems to just mean: be quiet.
Paul:
I always love it when someone says I prove their point because I do not have a clue as to what point you are talking about that I proved.
I know you will be disappointed but no we are not going to just be quiet!!
First, there's no excuse for inviting Caner to speak in any church.
But in the interest of getting the whole story, was Mr. Dunn doing anything that could be interpreted as disruptive?
John Carpenter
Point me in the direction of another proven charlatan and I will have a similar response. Charlatans are charlatans, it just so happens that Caner is the charlatan we are talking about now. If you like I could go after some other deceiver, like Osteen or TD Jakes or the like, but that's not what this particular thread is referring to.
You are right, that I do not know the background behind Johnny Hunt's decision to have Caner preach at his church. I don't need to know. Unless his intention was to give Caner a platform to publicly repent of his torrents of lies and deceit it doesn't matter (Feel free to back up a counterargument with scripture, I'll wait).
As for responsibility...doesn't matter. If we can only discuss matters that personally involve us, then should you not follow that rule and shut up about us being vocal critics of Caner? I mean, since you aren't personally effected by him (or us) then it's not your responsibility. After all, you're just a bystander with no bone in the fight, right?
I have a personal connection to matters pertaining to Caner as he was invited to preach at my old church. At that point I became an ex-member of my old church, and lost all respect for that pastor. Could you maintain respect for a pastor who did what Johnny Hunt just did?
As for the lost...would the lost be more put off by a proven liar being given praise and adulation behind the pulpit, or by people being outraged that a proven liar is being given praise and adulation behind the pulpit?
Please use scripture in your dissent at this stage, I can't wait to see what contortions will ensue.
@ Paul,
If you think objecting to building a career on lies is an unhealthy obsession, you're going to be shocked on judgement day.
God will send every liar to hell (see Revelation 21:8.) God says He "hates" (one could even say "loaths") the lying tongue (Proverbs 6:17).
Simon ...
Whose talking about trying to validate from scripture why you shouldn't attack Caner, Hunt, etc? Not me. Nice try though.
And it is always funny to me how both sides always try and argue that the other side needs to bring Bible to the table. I guess the other side in this case could suggest Seth needs to bring Bible to the table in how he is justified in "loathing" his pastor.
Again I would simply say that Johnny Hunt & Ergun Caner are not accountable to me so it does not concern me whether Johnny has Ergun preach at his church or not. I do not feel personally offended or affected by Ergun's sin or Johnny's decision so I don't feel he needs to repent to me. Those that are affected have the right to decide how they want to respond. You might feel differently. That's your opinion and right.
My only point in this entire thread is that the manner by which some who are opposed to Caner choose to voice their opposition is less than Christ-like. And the cloak "we do it b/c we love them so much" is laughable.
It is one thing to call out sin for what it is. But in my opinion many of the tactics employed to "shed light on the truth" are borderline sinful in and of themselves.
It is simply my contention that those who oppose Caner & co do not seem to be taken seriously by anyone outside of their own small circle. And in my opinion, that reality has little to do with the hard-heartedness & sin of the masses and more to do with tone.
You can disagree as I am sure you will. But I am a perfect example of someone who hears what you are saying and probably agrees with a lot of it and yet finds some serious contradictions in how it is handled.
It is hard to take seriously someone who says "I love Johnny Hunt and want what is best for him" at the same time as he says "I loathe Johnny Hunt."
I am not trying to make any kind of pro-Caner arguments that need to be defended by Scripture. I am simply making an observation.
So I guess the true weight of defending your actions with Bible rests on you. I am not trying to justify either side.
There you go...see how I shifted the biblical justification misdirect back toward you.
Moses, I am not making any suggestions on how you should handle this situation. Obviously you have been affected differently than the average person. I am simply saying very few people are listening outside of the circle b/c of the tone used within the circle.
I said I was loathe to hear Johnny preach. There is a difference between saying that and loathing him.
I just don't know how to maintain neutrality even if it can warn 1 person to reconsider their involvement with a church that hosts a guy like Caner...after all, he does scratch itching ears. Right up the street from FBW is Action Church, pastored by Gary Lamb...in Canton, Georgia, whom had pastored Revolution Church, had an affair with his secretary, divorced his wife, and transitioned over to new digs...then now...his former secretary and him are divorced and he is shagging his new girlfriend and have a scheduled wedding. Now...I know people that still adore Gary...and attend his church...and tithe...it just does not make sense...they know of his deeds...and yet continue to be deceived and blinded...go figure. BUT...having said that...a number of bloggers have remained posting updates and because of that...I am thinking it has resulted in having some people avoid both Gary and his church, Action. Don't have statistics but I myself would take it upon myself if others had not already done so...we must...I repeat...we must be faithful to God's Word and warn those whom are sheep and if that one sheep comes back into the fold...then it is worth the efforts...Caner...just too much drama...there is no reason to continue allowing this man to occupy the sacred pulpit...it is just not right and people need to know...Bible verses?? I guess if I am challenged, I would gladly use multiple portions of scripture to support Seth and his position of telling others...and for Tom and his updates...I appreciate their efforts and see the coming tsunami of those whom preach a false Gospel...and then those too whom preach a small Gospel just to enrich themselves...where are the Jeremiah's?? Tom is one...so is Seth. Thanks guys.
1 Corinthians 6:1-11
Ephesians 5:11
2 Corinthians 6:14
Colossians 3:9-10
It's quite easy when the matter is so open-and-shut.
That said...if you're willing to call me, or any other Caner critic to repentance for "borderline sinful" actions, all you would need is a coherent book, chapter, and verse. If we are the indeed sinning it should be child's play to find an absolutely convicting call to repentance...
...
...
...
...
I'll wait.
...
...
...
...
Must be in there somewhere. I mean, we're being unchristlike, right?
...
...
...
Right?
In light of the tragic events in Mr. Caner's family, I think it would be appropriate if the negativity stops for a bit. Regardless of your opinion of the man and his actions, it is our responsibility as the church to lift up in prayer a brother and his family when they are in a time of tragedy and mourning. As a parent I hurt for the family and cannot imagine their grief. Out of respect for this....I would ask that we take a break from the norm here and spend the time praying for the family.
Sometimes it not that important to be right. Sometimes we should yield ourselves to help someone who might be struggling with an Issue. Why cause someone pain, embarrassment, or shame when it could be avoided and that pain could last a life time. The Spirit of the Bible says to yield.
1 Corinthians 8:9 (HCSB)
9 But be careful that this right of yours in no way becomes a stumbling block to the weak.
Galatians 6:2-3 (HCSB)
2 Carry one another’s burdens; in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
3 For if anyone considers himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
Paul
OK. I hear what you are saying. But I'm more than a little puzzled by the fact that you are "more than a little" informed of Caner's, um, misstatements and can describe them as being "less than forthright". That is more than an understatement, that is as laughable as the idea that people attack Hunt because they love him. I mean, give me a break. He fabricated his entire life so he could ride the wave of Islamophobia after 9/11 and make a huge name for himself. I deployed three times and spoke with lots of Muslims about the Gospel. You seriously think they don't know all of this? And despite the fact that this scandal is affecting Muslim outreach all over the world, and how all Christians are perceived, we aren't allowed to comment because we don't know them personally. Uh, no. I will agree that some of the language is pure vitriol, and I have no use for it. It doesn't help anything and only reinforces the mindset of those defending Caner that he is being "persecuted". I don't know Dunn but I would not have brought an unbeliever to church with me on a day Caner was preaching, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But to sit back and say "Hey, none of my business…I don't have an opinion…I'm a neutral observer." Well, if that's the case then you've got a problem. I hope you have SOME opinion, if you are as well-informed as you claim to be. Spare us the neutral by-stander routine, please. It is transparent and silly.
Joe
Johnny Hunt is not THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION, he is only a member of the Southern Baptist convention, just like any other pastor or church member. When people start following a person, whoever it is, instead of following God, watch out!
where is the video of Ergun Caner's sermon at Johnny's church?
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