Today, June 21, 2008, FBC Jacksonville is launching the initial stage of its "satellite" ministry into St. John's County, the county bordering Jacksonville's Duval County to the south. This is the county experiencing rapid population growth, and this growth just so happens to be - lucky for FBC Jax - rich white people! FBC Jacksonville has decided that there are not enough churches currently in this area ministering, or the ones that are there and view this area as their mission field aren't doing a good enough job. So what is needed? A church plant with a new pastor to minister to people's needs in that area? Of course not - what' s needed is a place where people can come to get some of Mac Brunson's teaching!
The first stage of FBC Jacksonville moving south begins TODAY, as the training sessions begin for approximately 30 couples who will be hosting "in home churches" or "in home Bible studies" in the St. Johns County area from 6:00 to 8:00 pm on Sunday evenings, beginning very soon after these couples complete their weekend training sessions. These will be viewed by the church as extensions of FBC Jacksonville - according to Mac even the homes themselves will be inspected by our crack staff of executive pastors and staff members to ensure the home is suitable and safe (hope we've updated our church insurance policy to include coverage at these people's homes!). According to Mac even child care will be provided in the homes during the 2 hour "home bible study".
Then, here's the kicker - once our team of 30 couples has built up their in home churches, guess what - we're going to move them over to a new St. Johns "satellite campus", perhaps to be called "First Baptist Jax South Branch" to be opened up Easter morning 2009! Yes, that's right! These people that we get into our "home churches" will eventually be told:
"Yes, getting you into my home to study the bible these past few months was part of a well thought-out scheme we started early in 2007 to allow my pastor to start a satellite church in this area. Satellite churches are like a branch of a bank, or a McDonald's franchise, or a Starbucks coffee shop. Just like you may be getting a new Bank of America branch here in your area to make it more convenient for you, well you're getting an "FBC Jax Branch Church" in your area, and you know what, congratulations, you've just won a genuine Majorca pearl necklace, and membership in a new SATELLITE CHURCH!
You see my pastor and his marketing firm decided that since this area of town didn't have any good churches or decent pastors who knew enough of the Bible (and history) to reach you, and since not enough people were coming downtown to hear him preach, that we could start a "satellite church". He told us when he cast his "Vision" for this satellite church that to start he would drive to the satellites and preach live until we get the live video feed from the "mother church". I know you like this in-home bible study we have, but this was just a ploy to get you moved over to the satellite so you could watch Mac on a video screen, and we could pass what we call an "offering plate". But until we get the live feed going (those are VERY expensive you know, so we'll be holding a "special offering" at the satellite to pay for it but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it) he'll drive from his modest home in Deerwood to preach to, er I mean minister to us on Sundays.
What's that? Will we be a stand-alone church? No, not really. Our preacher is not legalistic except in the area of tithing (and anonymous emails), so you'll hear sermons about how you need to give 10% of your income to receive God's blessings, and that 10% will go straight to the church downtown. But don't worry, they're really good stewards of the money downtown. Although we can't see any detail whatsoever in how its spent by our trustees, TRUST ME, we don't spend money on lavishness, so don't worry about that. No money goes to enriching the pastor and allowing him to live a lavish life style. We'll be great stewards of your money that you drop in the offering plate. In fact, we'll be doing you a favor, since this satellite will be a real money loser when it starts until we indoctrinate you and the others with the idea of "tithing"...then when we get the revenue flowing from this satellite, we will be able to launch another one somewhere. So, welcome to the FBC Jax family! Oh, and by the way, if you have any questions about the church, don't send any anonymous emails, the pastor HATES those."
Sorry for the cynical view, but I'm very skeptical when it comes to the motives and means of Mac Brunson and his inner circle of decision makers. Just a few remarks, and then you can comment as you wish on this topic:
- Did Mac reach out to the other churches who are in this area and let them know of his intentions, and maybe see what their long-term strategies are for reaching this area of our metroplex? Or does Mac know precisely that what God wants is a FBC Jax down there irrespective of what other churches are doing?
- When Mac cast the vision it was all about how we were going to get his excellent sermons down there to the satellites - he could drive he said because he doesn't mind preaching multiple times a day, until we get the live feed. Does St. John's County really need Mac Brunson sermons - live or feed?
- Mac told us last fall that the way to reach our city was to start a school - that "knocking on doors doesn't work anymore". So to butter us up for his Wednesday night unannounced vote to take $500,000 from our church funds to start a school, Mac told us that a FBC Jax school is a MUST to reach people. OK, so where do we start the school? Downtown where apparently no one likes to come to church because we are building a satellite church! So if its to reach people why are we putting it downtown, since the growth (and the people with the money) is to the south? And we already have an excellent church facility downtown - with many needed renovations and upgrades - but we are now focused on spending money for a satellite church and a school. So the logic is: build a church downtown to reach people where we know it will be hard and expensive for them to drive to every day - and we'll start a new church out in the suburbs so these people don't have to drive downtown to the excellent church we already have. Sorry, but my brain doesn't compute all of that. What it does mean is we all better DIG DEEP...we need half a million for the school, and we'll need big bucks to start our FBC Jax South Branch in St. John's county. And then the capital fund raising program for our local campus can't be too far behind.
- I do want to remind everyone that Mac cast the same vision for FBC Dallas - starting satellites - but he left and it died on the vine. I guess God wanted Dallas to build satellites so long as Mac was there, but when he left suddenly God wasn't in it anymore.
Seriously though - I hope that our 30 trained lay people starting these in home churches are open and honest with those that they bring into their home about the ultimate purpose - that is for FBC Jax to expand its brand into St. John's county.
38 comments:
There are several strong Baptist churches with similar structures (satellite campuses) which are working great.
2nd Houston - TX
Hickory Grove - Charlotte, NC
1st Jackson - Mississippi
An interesting article on the subject, viewing the subject in balance with the old time circuit rider (1 preacher many pulpits).
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/september/24.60.html
I like the idea, but know it is not for all churches. Not all preacher/pastors could handle such.
Go Mac...
i joined this church just a couple of years ago. first vines now brunson. both seem to me to be good preachers. the church attendence appears to be about the same. from my understanding of your blog, there is nothing "right or good" about brunson, the church staff or much of anything else the church is trying to do. if i am wrong, please correct me. can you not find anything good to write about? is there anything positive or God honoring that the pastor has done in your opinion? we know what you dont like about fbc, the direction we are going and the brunsons, but can you think of or comment on anything positive? i really dont see how this blog solves anything other than casting doubt amoung the church members. i am no bible scholor, but isnt that exactly what the bible says satan does among us (not calling you satan) just asking...So what DO you like about fbc that keeps you coming to every service?
Most of the megachurch pastors come up with this same "vision." They move into the richer areas and have satellite feeds where their wonderful preaching can be seen by everyone. (Even though its already on tv).
One other little side note: they always take up offerings and funnel it into the Mother Church.
But then, who should be surprised.
I remember when Mac first landed. The Purpose Driven flag went up. There were signs happening every where around the church. Those who knew anything about the destructiveness of this movement were instantly alarmed by what we were seeing and hearing. It reached the pastors ears and he said from the pulpit:"Purpose Driven, Purpose Driven, I'am NOT taking this church Purpose Driven".
R I G H T!!!
Well, guess what? Satelite churches ARE one of the main destructive instruments used by the Purpose Driven Movement. I don't believe there are ANY(?) that have been successful. Or, that have lasted very long. If they are still in business, they have created enormous problems for the host church. I personally believe that looking and acting "busy" does not mean that a ministry is successful. Shakespeare said it: "Much Ado About Nothing". I don't see FBCJ as being the great church that it was, so why branch out with "desparate measures" trying to look "progressive" in the ministry, when your failing at home. Like the Dallas FBC commentor said: "Once Mac left suddenly it didn't appear to be a program from God. I guess if you look "busy" enough that means your successful. And, then there is the added resource of "money" coming into FBCJ coffers.
Ask this question: If people dont't attend a church in St. Johns Co., already, why would they come to a satelite of FBCJ. We can't keep the members WE have, they are leaving all the time. Satelite churches exist for the church not the people (in my opinion).I've heard of the Andy Stanley, Ed Young Jr. stuff, if we really knew what price was paid by the original churches I wonder if we would call it a success? Success is bringing SOULS TO JESUS!!!! GETTING THE LOST SAVED. You can't "mentor" people and help them have a "good life", UNTIL THEY ARE SAVED!! What is the success rate of these people at Salvation? PREACHERS: PREACH THE WORD.
I stumbled across this site recently. I have had my issues with Southern Baptist folks in the past, but (wow!) I've not seen this kind of bitterness before. You seriously need to check yourself. This is just petty and not at all Christ-like.
fbc watchdog..funny what happends to those who make fun of Gods man....2 Kings 2;23-25....he's fits the description huh
Frank - this is not petty. The people of God are being fleeced by a liar, hypocrite and charlatan - Donald McCall Brunson, Jr.
Everything he says, does and writes is open and subject to scrutiny.
Sure, some petty things occasionally get mentioned here, but read the blog and you will see most of the issues are ones that are anything but petty.
oh, and lets not forget, everything you read written here on this mans blog is "accurate fact" and not at all subject to personal opinion, cojecture or speculation, just like your local newspaper. so based on all of these so called facts and anonymous opinions, quick, lets go out a crucify brunson...run him out of town...hey its not Gods church its ours...we bloggers know whats best...so who want to stand and throw the first stone...thats what I thought...
June 22, 2008 5:46 PM - re-read your comment. Are you serious? Is anyone asking for what you state we are asking? Look how some people interpret any questions being asked of the pastor. You are way over reacting sir. ALL we want is for him to be transparent in what he is doing. He won't be. Period. So until he does, we will scrutinize his actions, words and deeds here.
Readers of this blog - help me out. Did I miss something today?
Mac said he tithes "because his daddy taught him to do so." Did he offer any scripture for that, or just that he does so since he was taught to do so?
And then he immediately added if "anyone tries to tell you different, they are doing the work of Satan." Does this mean that anyone who asks that he exegete scripture from the New Testamant teaching of giving of all we have, not just the legalistic tithe, is doing the work of Satan?
He also added he brings his tithe to the "storehouse, which is the local church where I attend." Did he give any scripture for that jump from the old testament grain storehouses where the priests kept the food to a local fellowship of believers?
Did any of those who read and bring their bible get the feeling he was trying to gloss over the scripture to make an appeal that you need to bring in 10% of your income to the FBC of Jacksonville?
Again, did I miss something?
Hey June 22, 2008 5:46 PM - you take the prize for most outrageous comment in so few words. Everyone of your statements is FALSE! Nice job.
"...everything you read written here on this mans blog is "accurate fact" and not at all subject to personal opinion, cojecture or speculation, just like your local newspaper. FALSE - NO ONE HAS EVER CLAIMED OTHERWISE.
so based on all of these so called facts and anonymous opinions, quick, lets go out a crucify brunson...WOW - HANGING MAC ON A CROSS LIKE THEY DID JESUS? WHO HAS ADVOCATED THIS?
run him out of town...WHO ON THIS BLOG HAS ISSUED A CALL TO RUN HIM OUT OF TOWN.
hey its not Gods church its ours... IT IS GOD'S CHURCH,BUT SINCE HE IS IN HEAVEN, HE USES MEN TO MINISTER TO OTHERS, TO GIVE, TO TEACH, TO LOVE EACH OTHER, ETC.
we bloggers know whats best...I HOPE NOT. WE JUST WANT SOME ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY DUE TO THE NEW PASTOR ABUSING HIS POSITION OVER THE PAST TWO AND HALF YEARS.
so who want to stand and throw the first stone...THIS BLOG HAS THROWN THE FIRST STONE DON'T YOU THINK?
thats what I thought...IT IS?
Yes Men - did you like that topical preaching today? My Sunday School teacher was better prepared. If she had just picked a topic and then pulled several unrelated scriptures out of context (any of us could find in our concordance) and jumped around in the bible, I would have felt cheated. Then the passages that clearly contradict mac, he says "well you need to know the context of that verse" yet we never get the context of the scriptures he uses in support of his "application." Prior pastors used to tell us that people will want "sermon lites" and "sermonettes" with a verse here a verse here and then lots of pop psychology. We got that today. Very weak exposition and preaching today.
Hey Watchdog - Can you believe the pastor discussed his house and never mentioned the land gift again today? Today would have been a perfect chance to thank people for their generousity towards him and include the land gift. Instead, he said he is paying for his house and used his profits from previous buying and selling of homes to buy this one. That is not true. His real estate is worth over a million dollars. $307K of the land it sits on was given to him three weeks after he came. Then he took a 15 year mortgage for roughly $300K to pay for the rest. And yet he stands there and acts like he is buying his $1 million dollar house. Do you think Debbie was buying what mac was saying about that. He might fool us, but she knows the truth.
And a message that centered on people tithing no matter how much debt they are in without ONE SINGLE verse stating anything about tithing!!!! No comment!
Readers: Mac said to pay off your debts and start saving and start investing for retirement, then you will have some "margin." He said that is the biblical way. On this I agree 100%. However, he did NOT tell you the most obvious part, which is to STOP blindly giving your money to FBC Jax (or any other so called lavish ministry) to use as the yes men please (without any accountability) and instead, you need to do with the money what he described. And then, guess what, you will be out of the bondage of debt, won't be paying interest, will get rid of that marital stress he spoke of, and as a result you will quickly have that margin he himself enjoys and then, like him, you can give biblically, which is cheerfully, not under compulsion and certainly not due to some OT verse in Malachi that was aimed at corrupt priests who were robbing God and robbing the nation of Israel.
Did Dr.Mac really say that anyone not teaching tithing was doing the work of Satan? If he did then I'd better warn Dr.John MacAuthur Jr.that he's on his way to Hell for teaching that the New Testament Church is not under the tithe; And God knows that Dr.Brunson is far better theologian than Dr.MacAurthur.
Yes indeed, Mac did. He said that anyone who would cast doubt on the Christian's responsibility to tithe is doing the work of Satan. I heard it.
And I heard Mac lie: "I'm paying for that house." (his million dollar home).
Well, that is very Clintonesque: it depends on what you mean by "house"...if you mean, the physical structure and not the land, OK. But usually we refer to our "house" as the lot and the home. And therefore he is NOT paying for it. He was given it by a generous member, to the tune of $307,000. So Mac instead of telling the truth, wishes to deceive and lie.
Congregation - the man has no integrity to speak to us about giving and tithing. Why? Because he has taken hundreds of thousands from our church and its members. That is like me saying, "hey give me $300K and I will donate $15,000 to missions and another $30K to the church. You give it to me, then I stand up and brag about how much I have given (15% of my income) to the church. I don't even tell you that on top of that a member gave me land worth $307K. SICKENING!
Remember, he was GIVEN $307K by J.D. Collins three weeks after he arrived! THAT IS FACT! So, until he donates that amount to our church and its ministries, the man "is robbing God" and is not in fact giving even one dime to our church. (Not to mention the hundreds of thousands he and his family are taking EVERY year.)
As long as you keep blindly giving, he will keep on spending. And he had the gall to criticize the government that provides for our defense, police, firemen, schools, roads, etc. Saying they need to get spending under control. This guy has between 12 and 18 million per year to use and yet he keeps asking for money! WAKE UP! Quit robbing God by giving to FBC JAX. If any PREACHER tells you different he is "doing the work of SATAN!" Make him do what Vines and Lindsay always told you to do: Check it against the scripture!
People tell us bloggers to "let God deal with Mac." I agree. Let's also let "God" provide the funds for the budget, not you and I. (or J.D. Collins) If we can trust God to handle abuses at our church, let's also trust God to finance Mac's vision without taking wages from the sheep.
It is easy to cast stones from an anonymous blog.
Its even easier to cast stones at a blogger ANONYMOUSLY like you are doing. What is your name? Stop criticing a blogger raising real issues at his church anonymously, when you come here to criticize the person anonymously.
I will be at Starbucks on Philips Hwy. Monday 6/23/08 8:30am The coffee is on me.
I will tell you my name when you tell me yours, it will be like a cheesy movie.
I missed the point of the Shields' follow-up testimony. So he lost his job just a few months after the testimony...but what has transpired in the year since? Why not tell us what has happened in their lives since that point 1 year ago, if you're going to bring them to the stage again?
Maybe the Collins are taking care of them (the Shields)?
To all of YOU who are critical of the genuine concerns of Watchdog and others,I again reminded you that every book in the New Testament with the exception of a couple deal with and warn repeatedly of deception in the church,perpetrated secretly by un-principled men[Acts 20:30-31].Now if The Apostle Paul dealt with deception in the first century church,what makes you think that somehow two thousands years later they have somehow disappeared.DOES WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING BRING ANYTHING TO MIND[Matt.7:15;Acts 20:29].
IT IS WRITTEN said...
To all of YOU who are critical of the genuine concerns of Watchdog and others,I again reminded you that every book in the New Testament with the exception of a couple deal with and warn repeatedly of deception in the church,perpetrated secretly by un-principled men[Acts 20:30-31].Now if The Apostle Paul dealt with deception in the first century church,what makes you think that somehow two thousands years later they have somehow disappeared.DOES WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING BRING ANYTHING TO MIND[Matt.7:15;Acts 20:29].
Somehow I don't remember Paul doing what he did anonymously
To Anon June 22,2008 10:01pm. And I don't recall scrpiture revealing that Paul was secretive about finances,hiding land deals(That got Ananias killed Acts 5:1-3),manipulating scripture(Tithing,et.al),abusive and condesending attitude towards his fellow Christians,preaching history and not Jesus[1Cor.2:1-2]. Again Watchdog you are smart to conceal your identity because these types of men are vengeful[cf.The Pharisees].
Isaiah 56:10-12 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, everyone for his own gain, from his quarter. Come ye, say they, and I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and tomorrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.
This sums up what is happening to our church. I used to think we were a Philadelphian Church in a Laiodicean Church Age. I am not so sure.
Great passage Bigbird!I fail to mention that the Old Testamant saints(Israel)were also plagued by these greedy,self absorbed charlatans.We have not seen anything yet.This is only the beginning it only gets worse and worse[2Tim.3:13].
Missed you at Starbucks.
It is ok, I will put the $4.82 in a mutual fund at 12% and in 25 years I hope to get my daughter a wedding.
I don't want to offend anyone but let me remind you again folks that noone in leadership at your church is going to pay a whit of attention to you as long as you remain anonymous.
I just don't understand how you can say the things you are saying and not be willing to stand up and take credit for it. Anyone can take a pot shot from the bleachers as long as noone knows who they are.
If you really want to get answers then be willing to come out in the open and meet publicly and/or privately with your church leadership. I think they will take you up on your offer if you are willing to do so.
Otherwise, a lot of what I am reading on here these days isn't doing anyone any good and sure isn't enhancing your church and her ministries.
If you give 10% to a church and you save $25 per week this is what you give and save annually:
Salary 10% $25 week
$30,000 $3000 $1200
40,000 4000 1200
50,000 5000 1200
60,000 6000 1200
70,000 7000 1200
80,000 8000 1200
90,000 9000 1200
100,000 10000 1200
That $1200 you save may get you an air-conditioner for your car, braces for your child, engine tuned and some tires, fix up some housing problem, pay medical and dental for three months premium on you and your wife's health insurance. But each of these is only available once per year according to this savings plan. When you work for a living you have to pay for your car and gas, life insurance, health insurance, your house, and taxes.
Most people are not like clergy you get home, car, insurance,taxes, and health paid by church. Someone who looks after his/her family needs far more than $25 per week. Thats enough to buy 6 gallons of gas which will take you about 3 days or less to burn out going to and from work. Hardly in this economy will an emergency fund of $1000 last after just one disaster. You, I, and everyone else know that.
Some people live in a dream world. This concept of everyone having to save $25 per week is not even rational. It's different for each person, family and it also depends on their monthly income. If you are on Social Security of $600-900 per month living in an apartment or your own home just meeting monthly expenses(and a lot are)Florida has more seniors than any other state you can forget this savings plan or the emergency fund...it ain't going to happen especially when a disaster occurs. GET REAL...YOU HAD BETTER HAVE A CREDIT CARD(WHICH YOU WILL HAVE DIFFICULTY PAYING FOR) OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE CALLING ON THE GOVERNMENT FOR HELP...BUT HELP WON'T COME. YOU WILL DO WITHOUT UNLESS YOU LIVE IN IRAQ.
rm
you still do not get it. Brunson will not listen. You think people are not talking to him? They are, he will not change. PERIOD! He is on his PURPOSE DRIVEN mission and he is not looking back. I know you are hurt rm we too are in pain. FBCJ members are continuing to read WATCHDOG and they will decide what to ask the pastor. We have talked to him.
Brunson is still not preaching the GOSPEL. Week 4 and only a one minute mention of how to be saved. You would think with a budget of 14 million we would be just a little bit more concered about the lost in the church. Mac we are not going away and neither is the Holy Spirit. He knows how much time you spend teaching about,Jesus, gospel and doctrine.
You won't turn this PURPOSE DRIVEN apostacy around for us. Will you turn it around for Jesus?
I am commenting today, because, I am still in total shock over yesterday's AM sermon(if you still call them that). I could not believe what I was hearing. Literally !!!
Firstly, he did not mention that the land, $307 thousand was given to him and did he even pay taxes on it, or was that taken care of also? In addition, he didn't mention that he lived FREE the previous year in an Amelia Island, Million + plus Condo(another gift from a generous member). We still do not know if any additional monies were given to him to "defray" cost of moving expenses, but I am relatively sure those expenses were in the "PACKAGE"!! The church pays for insurance on house,cars, themselves,etc. They get a HOUSING ALLOWANCE in addition to salary, plus car ALLOWANCE, gas is paid for by church. (At $4 + a gallon). I suppose a housing allowance would come in handy to help pay for the "gated community" fee each month. Things are so expensive nowadays. Travel expenses are paid for by (somebody) not them. Family members on payroll (also share some of these same benefits.)Brought a marketing firm here to sell the BRAND, which the church is paying for. And a really big issue: Clergy get a different tax structure than us mere mortals. Clergy get a lot of tax breaks!!!! This enables "their" money to go alot further than our dollar. So when he says "he is paying for his house", maybe he should mention all of the above info into the equation just to give an "entire" picture. Do any of you who are not clergy get these breaks?!!!
Another shocker, If you believe tithing was an Old Testament LAW, and not a COMMAND or New Testament law. And therefore not applicable to believers in the NT, then you are of satan!!! Give me a break. It is always beneficial for preachers to preach this. Putting people under the law again helps the budget. I find this guilt and fear trip interesting, especially coming from millionares that have accepted all of these perks, and answered NO questions about them. What you do with 10% of your money(before taxes) is their business. You are to give it to the church with NO accountability. But what they do with their money is their business. He did mention tithing to the church. Great but how much more does he get back in these "blessings"? Plus, (I don't know if this is still the practice) if you or a relative die, and a preacher "holds"(?) the funeral you pay them. This is not required, I understand, but expected. Same for weddings.
Please do not misunderstand, I believe in giving to the church, supporting the pastor (reasonably) not draining money off of people that can't make it on a daily basis, by calling them satan if they can't or don't believe in giving 10% of their income to the church!!! The economy today is well out of reach of many people. Some must choose betweem food and medicine, health care etc., and here is some millionaire calling them satan if they don't believe in giving 10% to the church!! APPALLING!! And, who is legalistic here? I am very sorry (truly) but many churches today are just like country clubs. You pay dues to belong. Not all churches and not all preachers are millionaires. There are many Godly men doing Gods work under very difficult circumstances. God bless them!! I doubt you would hear yesterday's sermon from any of them!!!
I must ask another question: except in the invitation where was the name of JESUS mentioned? Where was sin mentioned accept in the comments on tithing (misapplied).
Anon - Mac said at the beginning of yesterday's sermon that it would be "uncomfortable"...and was he right. The only thing more uncomfortable than hearing Mac lecture us about finances would be to have to listen to Bill Clinton preach on marital fidelity.
Mac is a hypocrite, and a liar. He purposely lied and deceived his congregation yesterday about his own finances, and then dared to tell his congregation at the end that unless they tithe 10% to the church they ware robbing God, and that anyone who says tithing 10% to the church is not required is of Satan.
More to come soon...
i dont know the bible very well, but I thought that in the book of Malachi it says if you dont tithe you are robbing God? It goes on to talk about the tithe being 10%. And are you saying that Jesus didnt teach us to tithe? I was sure he did, but I dont know where that vers is. what is the difference in an OT Law vs OT command? arent both essentially God telling the people what to do or dont do? i just dont understand, please clarify.
some fo ya'lls arguement is confusing. did your preacher agree to a "package" to come to your chruch or did this guy, like an athlete, say, fi you give me all of this, then i will come. if it is the first, then ya'll apprently did this to yourselves and i gues if it is the second, agreeing to his demands kinda makes you as bad has him. sounds like your chruch was willing to "sell out" to get this guy and now you have regrets. so how can you blame him, you "bought him, now TRADE HIM
Hi Donny Mac - how about using your talents and history and greek to try and find one passage in the OT or NT that says we are to give 10% of our wages to the local church. Just one, sir... I don't care if Homer Lindsay said to do it, or if your dad taught you to do it when you were a boy. That sounds like "living in the past" and "legalism" to me. Like you, sir, I WANT SCRIPTURE!!!!! Your silence on this is deafening. A hint: use your "smarts" to come up with some scripture to support your sermon topic next time. What a waste of talent and theological education.
To Anon June 22,2008 10:01pm. And I don't recall scrpiture revealing that Paul was secretive about finances,hiding land deals(That got Ananias killed Acts 5:1-3),manipulating scripture(Tithing,et.al),abusive and condesending attitude towards his fellow Christians,preaching history and not Jesus[1Cor.2:1-2]. Again Watchdog you are smart to conceal your identity because these types of men are vengeful[cf.The Pharisees].
Your the one who compared him to Paul. Blogging about someone anonymously or otherwise is unscriptural. Please show me where, anywhere that this type of attack is scriptural! You know you cannnot. The only vengeful ones are yourself and wd
I don't recall in scrpiture where they had computers much less blogged.Please show me in scriptures were it states you have to reveal your identity.The reason I compared Dr.Brunson to The Apostle Paul is because just as Paul was a leader in the Church so is Brunson.But at least Paul was humble and approachable and preached th Gospel.
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