"This unlawful use of the Work is harmful to the Church's ability to utilize this Work both as a means to educate its attendees and members about God's Word, but also as a marketable product. The Church markets this Work to other pastors, churches and ministries, and licenses it for that purpose. The availability of this video obtained without the knowledge or consent of the Church for free on your site greatly infringes upon the Church's ability to market this work."
-------------------------
The above quote is taken from a December 2010 letter sent to Vimeo by Ed Young's lawyer that resulted in temporary removal of my three videos from the Internet that I created for the purpose of educating Christians about the dangers of preachers who abusively preach a tithing doctrine. The videos are:-------------------------
"Ed Young Goes After Access to Bank Accounts of Church Members"
"Ed Young's Tithing Long Bomb"
"Give and Live: New Prosperity Gospel in the SBC"
While Young's lawyers were successful in having the above three videos removed in December and January, my lawyer was successful in getting them restored in March by contesting their claim and sending a letter to Vimeo arguing that if the sermons are copyrighted, the use in my videos falls under the Fair Use doctrine of the copyright laws. The ball is now in Ed Young's court.
Yes, church work isn't just about preaching the Word and spreading the gospel anymore, it is about "marketing the work". They need to market "the work".
A few comments on this:
- It is interesting they claim my videos hurt their ability to market the work, because the Ed Young 10/10/10 tithing sermon was posted for free on their church website for at least a month after the sermon was preached, and was removed from their website AFTER my videos were created and posted. I know, because that is how I retrieved it to use it.
- not sure how my videos harm their ability to "educate their attendees and members about God's Word." I would say the sermon itself, not my videos, harmed their ability to educate people about God's Word, because in my view his 10/10/10 tithing sermon was about as un-biblical as any I've ever heard on the topic of Christian stewardship. It was embarrassing. Watch the "long bomb" video to get a taste of what he was preaching that day.
- another portion of the lawyer's letter reads: "Permission was not sought to use this work and no license was given to the individual that posted the video to utilize the video in such a way." True, I didn't seek their permission or a license. I didn't think I needed to under the Fair Use doctrine of the copyright laws. But I wonder, did Fellowship Church seek "permission" or a "license" when they used the Gatorade trademark logo in their video and called it "Haterade"? Maybe they did. I hope so, because that video had a commercial purpose in advertising a pay-to-attend church conference. Did Fellowship Church seek permission from author Stephanie Meyer of the "Twilight" series, to use the name and the characteristic trademark in Ed Young's sermon series "Twilight"? I sure hope they did, because as you see below, there is an unmistakable match between Ed Young's use of the Twilight logo and imagery (at left) and that on the book cover (right). And I would point out that Ed Young's "Twilight" sermon series is being sold for commercial gain here.
- Ed Young's lawyers claimed that my videos were not a "fair use" of the original work, that I purposely split the videos into two parts to fall with the Fair Use doctrine. They claimed that the portion of my work that was critical was only incidental, and that my videos were "...an opportunity to run the Work without authorization or compensation". This is not true...the entire creation of the videos and my commentary in the video and on my blog was to critique his work, not to profit from it or to prevent them from marketing it.I realize my strategy of contesting their take-down has much risk. It would have been easier, less hassle, to just let it go, and let the videos stay down. But really, this blog has evolved around the theme of not allowing mega church pastors and preachers bully people, to expose their antics in real time. So I decided to contest Young's claims because I believe I am right, and keeping my work up for other Christians and non-Christians to see serves a tremendous purpose worth fighting for.
I used this blog to expose the bullying tactics of FBC Jax when they delivered their letter of 16 sins and trespass papers to me and my wife in November 2008. When Judge A.C. Soud read his Deacon's Resolution 2009-1 live streaming over the Internet to the people of FBC Jax and made the members stand and ratify it, I put the transcript and video on the Internet. When I got copies of the subpoenas that FBC Jax and the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office didn't want me to know about, and their official trespass notices filed against me and my wife, I put those on the Internet.
When a famous pastor in Texas had his lawyer bully me with a threatening letter in 2009 claiming I defamed him for blogging about news articles referring to his "shady land deal" demanding I take down a post from 2008, I kindly told him to jump in a lake (actually jump in a harbor) and blogged about it here.
So I will do the same now in this matter with Ed Young as best I can.
There are a many of us who believe great harm is being done to churches through this ridiculous tithing doctrine that Ed Young and others are aggressively pushing. Many modern preachers take their cues from Ed Young, and people need to know how awful and unbiblical this teaching is through videos like mine and others'. It is sad, really, that pastors are stooping so low as to use guilt, fear, and intimidation as tactics to raise revenue. I will continue to shine a light as best I can on these abuses.
As they use the Internet and technology to get their message out, so must we Christians do the same in response.
If Ed and Fellowship Church decide to pursue this matter in the courts, and I have no reason to believe they won't, I'll blog about it here, so stay tuned.
Sounds interesting. From where I sit, it just seems like people having different opinions about things and discussing them.
ReplyDeleteWhat I think is beneficial is to make people more aware of cult tactics. Watch the trial of James Ray or the NBC or ABC programs that tell about his tactics. Compare those to what a mega-church preacher is doing, then decide if they are somewhat similar or not. I think there are similarities.
It comes down to people can be manipulated to do things or think things. It doesn't matter about intelligence. We are all susceptible to these techniques.
I applaud your efforts, WD. These big organizations can be quite intimidating, I'm sure. It would be so much easier to just drop it and let them have their way. I'm glad you're not doing that.
My main point, again, is that we should learn as much as we can about how groups of people are controlled and influenced. The we'll more easily recognize those techniques when they are used on us by politicians, preachers, or whoever.
If you do not want to give the Church your bank numbers, don't do it.
ReplyDeleteIf you do not want to attend Fellowship Church, LEAVE!
If you do not like Ed Young and his tactics, GO TO ANOTHER CHURCH.
If you feel your job is to denigrate, put down, shame, and ridicule Churches and Pastors, GET A LIFE!!
This is not a game you are playing, this is about the Kingdom of God and souls are at stake.
Ed Young Jr. is a soul-winner-ARE YOU?
If you don't like a blog post, WRITE FORCEFULLY IN ALL CAPS.
ReplyDelete"Ed Young Jr. is a soul-winner"
ReplyDeleteIs he? How do you know? Are you able to read the Lamb's book of life?
Get a life - TROLL!!!
ReplyDeleteWatchdog, I commend you for your yeomen's work. I would also encourage other Watchdog's to raise up and contest this mutant breed of Christianity that is flourishing in these mega-churches.
ReplyDeleteever thought about renaming your blog " the broken record"? would be more accurate
ReplyDelete"Watchdog, I commend you for your yeomen's work. I would also encourage other Watchdog's to raise up and contest this mutant breed of Christianity that is flourishing in these mega-churches."
ReplyDeleteThat's good. Encourage disunity. Yeah, I think that's in the Bible somewhere.
We have unity in the Spirit. What you want is agreement on all matters and when has that ever in the history of Christianity existed? Two Baptist can be discussing something that there would be at least three points of view. My question to you is what is it about discussion that scares you?
ReplyDeleteDo you and your wife agree on everything? Anything? When you disagree do you tell her she has no right to express her opinion because you are the man and she has to submit to you? How does that work for you?
It seems to be a trend lately that if you want to stop negative criticism, all you have to do is apply some DMCA take down orders and voilà! No more criticism!
ReplyDeleteI bring this up because I know of two more very recent (within the last two weeks) DMCA take down cases by a big, influential Christian entity against bloggers posting negative criticism. Bob Jones University has been scrubbing videos all over the 'Net, even when - as in your case, WD - the usage clearly falls within the Fair Use rules.
For more on this, see these two blog posts:
Stuff Fundies Like, March 8, 2011
<a href="http://thehidalgograincompany.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/bju-strikes-back/>The Hildago Grain Company, March 6, 2011</a>
One the Stuff Fundies Like article, you'll see that the blog meister, Darrell, remixed the video, incorporating his commentary with the sermon. It's a suggestion for you, WD, for your future video postings.
Bro -- I read this post and all I see is "I", "I", "I", and a little more "I".
ReplyDeleteSome of what you write about is certainly valid, but some of what you write is nothing more than tearing down of the Kingdom.
The Father has but one Sovereign Judge......Himself. The Text itself states that teachers and instructors of the Word will be judged with more scrutiny. Know that and have Faith in that.
My challenge to you would be to spend more time on your blog spreading the Gospel and fulfilling the Great Commission and less time looking for ways to shoot holes in Churches due to what you deem to be faulty doctrine or tradition.
Spend a little more time praising the name of the One who redeemed you from death.
Bless you and your family. I pray your ministry for the Church transforms and becomes a beacon for the Good News of Christ.
Scott
Sorry about the bad HTML, WD. Here's the link:
ReplyDeleteThe Hildago Grain Company, March 6, 2011
Watch Dog,
ReplyDeleteCongratulations on the Fair Use argument to get the videos restored. I thought it would be a tough sell, but it looks like you're clearly making progress.
And thank you for continuing to point out Ed/Fellowship Church's own continued copyright violations (it's stealing other people's work). This has been going on for a long time at that church, and unfortunately has become all too common in other churches, and even Christian retail outlets. Stealing is stealing, even if it is intellecutal property. They hypocrisy from Ed Young on this is mind-blowing.
Good luck on this topic as the work continues.
Mark
It seems as if the Pirate flag is trying to get red of you. First by intimidation, now by force. When the Assyrian nation destroyed the upper ten tribes their names was removed forever.
ReplyDelete"My challenge to you would be to spend less time looking for ways to shoot holes in Churches due to what you deem to be faulty doctrine or tradition."
ReplyDeleteThis made me laugh out loud. It's the exact opposite of what scripture teaches.
Just goes to show that the average pew sitter is influenced much more by the culture than they are by the Bible.
I suppose that is the result of church members who never open their Bible and just rely on their mega church pastor for their theology.
It seems to be benefiting the pastor for more than the member.
Acts 20: 29 -31
That's good. Encourage disunity. Yeah, I think that's in the Bible somewhere.
ReplyDeleteMarch 15, 2011 9:40 AM
Unfortuantly for you, in context, it is Unity of Spirit.
I have NO unity in the Spirit with what Ed Young does. He is a perfect example of what Jude warns us about.
"My challenge to you would be to spend more time on your blog spreading the Gospel and fulfilling the Great Commission and less time looking for ways to shoot holes in Churches due to what you deem to be faulty doctrine or tradition. "
ReplyDeleteMany claim that is what Ed Young is doing.
If we are not to warn, then the Epistles should not have been written. Too many are ignoring them or don't understand them.
"That's good. Encourage disunity. Yeah, I think that's in the Bible somewhere."
ReplyDeleteSo, was Christ guilty of encouraging disunity when he criticized the Sadducees and Pharisees?
The concept of unity at the cost of truth comes from the culture not from the Bible.
Maybe we should try this another way. Instead of discussing right vs. wrong or good, better, best, how about you agree with me and poof there you have it, unity. So there you have it, by not agreeing with me it’s you that’s causing disunity.
ReplyDeleteMatthew 10: 34
ReplyDeletePraise God, He keeps exposing this Wolf for what he REALLY is.
ReplyDeleteGod is NOT mocked. (People of Fellowship need to understand this).
And if Anyone who still goes to Fellowship thinks that Ed Young actually cares about them and their families. HE DOES NOT CARE ONE BIT ABOUT YOU.
If he really cared, Why is he speaking lies about Jesus and why does he make a mockery of him?
I would not trust this wolf leading my unsaved loved ones to the Lord.
Who are you going to believe Jesus or Ed?
Who are you going to listen to God's Word or Ed?
Who is going to lie to you Jesus or Ed?
"We have unity in the Spirit. What you want is agreement on all matters and when has that ever in the history of Christianity existed? Two Baptist can be discussing something that there would be at least three points of view. My question to you is what is it about discussion that scares you?
ReplyDeleteDo you and your wife agree on everything? Anything? When you disagree do you tell her she has no right to express her opinion because you are the man and she has to submit to you? How does that work for you?"
Good job. You read into my comments what you wanted and derived all that. You must be a mind reader.
Part of unity is the ability to agree to disagree. It is something many on this blog desire pastors to practice but many on this blog refuse to practice it themselves. Thus, disunity is encouraged and that is the only thing this blog is being used for.
I always like how these guys are quick to be offensive but always evade answering the question.
ReplyDeleteTo the unknown sad blogger @ 12:06pm who wrote --
ReplyDelete"My challenge to you would be to spend less time looking for ways to shoot holes in Churches due to what you deem to be faulty doctrine or tradition."
This made me laugh out loud. It's the exact opposite of what scripture teaches.
Just goes to show that the average pew sitter is influenced much more by the culture than they are by the Bible.
I suppose that is the result of church members who never open their Bible and just rely on their mega church pastor for their theology.
It seems to be benefiting the pastor for more than the member.
Acts 20: 29 -31
March 15, 2011 12:06 PM"
If you're going to cherry pick from my statement to spin your opinion, please do it better than that. You change the entire statement from me by excluding the most important part about spreading the Gospel (which I am pretty sure is in the Bible my friend).
Nice try... But your reply was as close to "Winning" as Charlie Sheen.
Your labeling as a pew sitter and a "mega" attendee doesn't fit much either. That dog wont hunt.
Be careful spinning the words of others or perhaps you will be the one labeled as the wolf in sheep's clothing coming to tear apart the Church from within.
Scott
"To the unknown sad blogger @ 12:06pm who wrote"
ReplyDeleteYou make me laugh Scott. You accuse me of cherry picking your statement and then inaccurately call me a blogger. LOL!
Leaving a comment on a blog doesn't make me a blogger any more than driving a car makes you a mechanic.
Common logic. Come on.
You are better than that aren't you? Not a good start to your comment.
"If you're going to cherry pick from my statement to spin your opinion, please do it better than that. You change the entire statement from me by excluding the most important part about spreading the Gospel (which I am pretty sure is in the Bible my friend)."
False Premise
Every True Christian is already sharing the Gospel. It is commanded by no less than Christ himself.
To assume that because a person starts a blog about abusive church practices (which he experienced personally) and bad theology is not sharing the gospel, is an unfounded leap in logic and falsely judging someone for which you have no information.
It would be like starting a blog on chess and then some idiot commenting that you should be sharing the Gospel in every post.
"Nice try... But your reply was as close to "Winning" as Charlie Sheen."
How about instead of thinking of it as winning and losing, you try applying logic and reason? You'll get much further and not look so childish.
"Your labeling as a pew sitter and a "mega" attendee doesn't fit much either. That dog wont hunt."
I wish it weren't true, but unfortunately the label is very accurate as most studies demonstrate. What won't "hunt" is emotionally-driven knee-jerk reactions like yours.
"Be careful spinning the words of others or perhaps you will be the one labeled as the wolf in sheep's clothing coming to tear apart the Church from within."
I can see why you wouldn't want to stand by your words Scott. They are kind of embarrassing aren't they?
But your lame anonymous threats on a chat board won't make them appear any more convincing.
Sounds like you are a bit out of your depth Scott. You will have to focus if you hope to add something to this nuanced discussion.
Don't give up just because you failed this time.
"Part of unity is the ability to agree to disagree."
ReplyDeleteLOL!
So, when you agree it's unity and when you disagree it's unity.
When is it not unity?
Are they saying you are preventing them from making money off the videos? Who wants to buy a video of a preacher preaching?
ReplyDelete"To the unknown sad blogger @ 12:06pm"
ReplyDeleteThis is not a good beginning to your comment. First of all, leaving a comment on a blog doesn't make you a blogger any more than driving a car makes you a mechanic. Come on Scott. Engage brain before moving fingers. False Start - Ahhhhhhh!
I find it interesting that "Turn your eyes on JC" keeps telling people if you don't like your church leave, if you don't like your pastor, leave, etc, etc.
ReplyDeleteHowever, he obviously doesn't like this blog or the WD and yet he still continues to come back again and again and complain about this blog and WD.
Kyle
"If you're going to cherry pick from my statement to spin your opinion, please do it better than that. You change the entire statement from me by excluding the most important part about spreading the Gospel (which I am pretty sure is in the Bible my friend)."
ReplyDeleteScott Adams (creator of Dilbert) once wrote an article titled: You Are Wrong Because - demonstrating the many different kinds of logical fallacies utilized on discussion boards. Yours would fall under the false premise category.
Every true Christian is already sharing the Gospel. It is commanded by no less than Christ himself.
To assume that WD is not witnessing just because he started a blog about abusive leaders (which he experienced personally) and manipulative theology is a ridiculous logical leap and mean-spirited judgement based on no information whatsoever.
It would be like you starting a blog on chess and some idiot left comments every day criticizing you for not sharing the Gospel on each post.
Do you see how silly and ignorant that is?
"Nice try... But your reply was as close to "Winning" as Charlie Sheen."
ReplyDeleteInstead of thinking of it as winning and losing, how about trying some clear thinking and logic. You will get much further and not appear so childish.
Why does Ed Young bother you?
ReplyDeleteIs it jealousy?
Is it that God is blessing him and his ministry and all you have is a deadbeat blog?
Is it that the way "he does ministry" does not match 'your' philosophy of ministry?
Or could it be that you enjoy tearing down, belittling, bullying, and slandering individuals that are used by God.
What are you so mad about?
Why are you so angry?
Please seek some therapy, I am really worried about you.
and to think how much better I sleep at night knowing some of you are out there "watching my back" protecting me from those "evil pastors." What did I do without you?
ReplyDelete"Your labeling as a pew sitter and a "mega" attendee doesn't fit much either. That dog wont hunt."
ReplyDeleteWell, unfortunately Scott, the label is accurate. It is born out by almost every study that is conducted by Barna and other such services.
What won't "hunt" is the average mega-church pew-sitter who is Biblically illiterate because they never read the Bible for themselves, and on the rare occasion that they do, they never learn how to interpret it correctly in context for themselves.
Instead they just sit there mesmerized by their rock-star preacher (mouth agape) and absorb anything he says.
Don't be a Berean like the Bible teaches. No that's too hard.
"Be careful spinning the words of others or perhaps you will be the one labeled as the wolf in sheep's clothing coming to tear apart the Church from within."
ReplyDeleteI can see why you wouldn't want to stand by your words. They do look kind of silly don't they?
Your lame threats are wasted on those with education and self-esteem.
Don't give up just because you failed this time.
"Why does Ed Young bother you?"
ReplyDelete"Is it jealousy?"
False doctrine and extravagant unbiblical life-style and hypocrisy.
"and to think how much better I sleep at night knowing some of you are out there "watching my back" protecting me from those "evil pastors." What did I do without you?"
ReplyDeleteIn the case of those who followed Jim Jones - the died.
"Is it that God is blessing him and his ministry and all you have is a deadbeat blog?"
ReplyDeleteLots of people who preach a false gospel are rich.
And WD is one up on you. You are only a comment writer on his blog!
"Or could it be that you enjoy tearing down, belittling, bullying, and slandering individuals that are used by God."
ReplyDeleteOr could it be that you are a man worshiper who ignores biblical truth.
"What are you so mad about?"
ReplyDeleteI was wondering the same thing about you. Why do you keep leaving your silly comments here.
If you don't like what WD has to say just leave.
Isn't that what you instruct church members to do if you they don't agree with Mac?
Your advice must not be very good if you are not taking it yourself.
"Please seek some therapy, I am really worried about you."
ReplyDeleteWorry is a sin brother.
Are they saying you are preventing them from making money off the videos? Who wants to buy a video of a preacher preaching?
ReplyDeleteA more correct preposition could describe crying.
"LOL!
ReplyDeleteSo, when you agree it's unity and when you disagree it's unity.
When is it not unity?"
Wouldn't expect you to get it. It's ok.
and to think how much better I sleep at night knowing some of you are out there "watching my back" protecting me from those "evil pastors." What did I do without you?
ReplyDeleteMarch 15, 2011 5:59 PM
So that is why you read here.
"My challenge to you would be to spend less time looking for ways to shoot holes in Churches due to what you deem to be faulty doctrine or tradition."
ReplyDeleteThis made me laugh out loud. It's the exact opposite of what scripture teaches."
So Jude was not teaching what "scripture" teaches. Way to go Scott. Try again.
"If you're going to cherry pick from my statement to spin your opinion, please do it better than that. You change the entire statement from me by excluding the most important part about spreading the Gospel (which I am pretty sure is in the Bible my friend). "
ReplyDeleteWhich Gospel? Ed Young's?
Since spreading the Gospel is the only thing we are told in NT scripture, according to you, best to cut out all the Epistles dealing with problems in the Body.
You are not a bright fellow, are you, Scott. Seems you are good at parroting what the guy on stage tells you.
"Is it that the way "he does ministry" does not match 'your' philosophy of ministry?"
ReplyDeleteYou are right. We knew people would find out about Paul's luxury villa outside Laodicea sooner or later.
God Blessing Ed Young's Ministry?
ReplyDeleteJust because he has a large following DOES NOT mean God is blessing him.
I feel sorry (not) for all the stupid sheep who still stick up for this man. God has and will continue to expose this man over and over.
At this point, I say they deserve to have a leader like him.
They must LOVE the fact that Ed speaks lies about Jesus, mocks and defiles his holy name and makes a mockery of marriage. They must also love that Ed is an immature wanna be 20 something year old trying to be hip, cool and relevant.
They must be so enthralled with his "status". They must love wasting their hard earned money giving it to a man who buys expensive cars, homes etc.
It just goes in one ear and out the other.
Only God can give the people of Fellowship a wakeup call.
Tom Rich
ReplyDeleteContinue the good fight. Well done.
Maybe God is blessing Ed's "Ministry" to separate the wheat from the chaff? No, I am not a "fan" of Ed either, maybe his "ministry" is God's way of protecting his flock from Ed!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete"Wouldn't expect you to get it. It's ok."
ReplyDeleteAs a general rule, I don't "get" self-contradictory statements.
It's such a shame that several people responding to WD's latest post with such un-Christian, rude, and hate-filled comments. I'm an employee of the SBC working in country where millions haven't had a chance to hear His name. I'm at a loss as to what to say to those of you who write such things. But I just had to register my disappointment and fear for the health of our convention, not to mention the church in general. How are we ever going to fulfill the Great Commission? I'm just so concerned. PLEASE, everyone reading this blog and my humble, jumbled comment, stop right now and pray for His grace and love to soften all of our hearts. For the sake of the church in the U.S. as well as those who have yet to have a chance to hear the Good News.
ReplyDeleteEd asked people to support the work of the Lord...is that not in the Bible?
ReplyDeleteEd asked people to give sacrifically....is that not in the Bible?
Ed challenged people to give...Jesus challenged a man once to give everything he had. All Ed is saying is give 10%/
Shakespeare had a great quote that really sums up this whole Blog:
'MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING"
Look, up in the sky. It's a bird...no it's a plane...no it's the "Watchdog." My hero! Able to leap over simple logic and make mountains o mole hills in a single sentence...
ReplyDeleteyou sure do like to take people to court
ReplyDeleteYes, Ed Young is a Soul Winner indeed.... he's leading souls straight to Hell with his False Doctrine.
ReplyDeleteWhat a great "church" fellowship must be.. telling people to leave if they don't like the way Ed is preaching.
Jesus DOES NOT like the way Ed is preaching either.
Jesus warns over & over & over in the Bible about Charlatans/Wolves like Ed etc.
I guess people at Fellowship don't like to listen to what The Bible says about Wolves.
"Ed asked people to support the work of the Lord...is that not in the Bible?"
ReplyDeleteEd asked people to give so that he can fly in a private jet to his vacation spot. Where is that in the Bible?
"Ed asked people to give sacrifically....is that not in the Bible?"
ReplyDeleteEd asked people for their bank routing number. Where is that in the Bible?
"Ed challenged people to give...Jesus challenged a man once to give everything he had. All Ed is saying is give 10%"
ReplyDeleteThe OT Israelites gave 25%. When did it get changed from 25% to 10%? Where is that in the Bible?
Shakespeare had a great quote that really sums up this whole Blog:
ReplyDelete'MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING"
The fact that you spend so much time reading and writing silly comments on this blog clearly shows that you don't believe what you write.
When a preacher stands in a pulpit & uses a pointer to teach people where to find their routing numbers on their check is well, duh!
ReplyDeleteInfringe upon the church's ability to market their work I'd say is just downright stupid.
These illustrations are open to the public and my financial decisions are based on myself - when I first saw the video, my thoughts were this was a desperate church.
What a joke, the W/D's blog infringing upon their marketing program. Interesting the time & effort people put into talking about this blog. :>)
I stumbled on this blog because I had someone tell me about all the hate here.
ReplyDeleteWow, Dog, are you a Muslim?
I didn't know Christians treated each other like this!
Is this the way that Christian men are to act? Really?
It is a free Country and we are allowed by the Constitution, the freedom of expression. But just because something is allowed does not make it right.
This Blog is not right.
Justify it if you want to, but for someone brand new here, you can feel the evil on this blog.
So do you blame America for 9/11, too.
ReplyDeleteJustify it if you want to, but for someone brand new here, you can feel the evil on this blog.
ReplyDeleteMarch 16, 2011 1:28 PM
=========================
Come on fellow/gal you really didn't just happen to stumble on this blog . . .speaking of hate, why ask the question "are you a Muslim?" Good try!
"I stumbled on this blog because I had someone tell me about all the hate here."
ReplyDelete"Wow, Dog, are you a Muslim?"
You know, the government now offers free inspections for radon in your home. You may want to take them up on that one.
You gotta laugh when someone accuses you of being "a hater" and then calls you a Muslim in the next sentence.
Yeah, I can feel the love.
"I didn't know Christians treated each other like this!"
ReplyDeleteYou mean like Bereans?
Sure. As a matter of fact we are commended for doing so.
Open you Bible brother.
"I stumbled on this blog because I had someone tell me about all the hate here."
ReplyDeleteSo, you are interested in hateful blogs? Why is that? Because you are a hater?
"I stumbled on this blog because I had someone tell me about all the hate here."
ReplyDelete"Wow, Dog, are you a Muslim?"
Notice how he just happened to stumble upon this blog and yet he knows the nick-name of the moderator.
Oops.
"Wow, Dog, are you a Muslim?"
ReplyDeleteGreat Question....
Are you???
This opens up a can of worms of whether or not this whole Blog is secretly being run by Muslims or by Atheists.
No Bible Believing Christian can say that this Blog is from God.
We can only see it for what it really is....a tool of the Devil.
Finally, someone spoke and shared the truth.
You can call me a Troll but all I am doing is "Trolling the Truth"!!
Dismissing and downgrading our Godly voices only feeds your Bitterness and Envy.
Let go of the Hate....
Like Dr. Phil says..."How's that working for you?"
I am totally against the idea of church marketing. Tithe dollars do not need to be spent on marketing strategies, in any form.
ReplyDeleteThe only marketing that needs to be taking place in the church today is the word of mouth marketing of the power of Jesus in the lives of the church members.
Go out and visit folks. Talk about Jesus to your coworkers.
And btw, Ed Young is a man child throwing a temper tantrum in the pulpit.
Keep up the good work!
ReplyDelete"Trolling the Truth"!!
ReplyDeleteLOL!
With respect to arguments with unity vs. disunity, I wonder what it is we Christians ultimately stand for.
ReplyDeleteWe are followers of Jesus Christ. Should we ultimately be for what he was for?
Yes, Jesus was for unity; however, He, last time I checked, is also for righteousness, purity, and truth (the last one He claims He is the embodiment of in John 14:6).
So shall we pursue unity at the sacrifice of righteousness, purity, and truth?
Is Christ and His Kingdom blessed when a pastor rapes a child?
Is Christ and His Kingdom blessed when the real Kingdom thief is the pastor who uses church money not for ministry and "the least of these" but for the pastor's own personal comfort and over-the-top luxury?
Probably not.
Therefore, are not those previously mentioned actions even worse when those churches CONDONE such actions?
Sure, we can say, "God will judge the pastor accordingly," but will God also judge us if we as church members ALLOWED it?
Imagine yourself standing before Almighty God as a deacon, trustee, committee member, Sunday school teacher, or elder. What do you think He would say?
Either...
"Foolish servant/soul! You caused disunity in my church by stopping a pastor from committing egregious sin and trying to hold him accountable!"
or
"Foolish servant/soul! You knew egregious sin was festering and destroying my church and you condoned and allowed it!"
If Watchdog, or anyone for that matter, is wanting to fight and cause dissension over minor things, (i.e. Mac Brunson wants to change the color of the church carpet) then yes, it's time to pursue unity to the fullness and be gracious. Anything less would be immature.
However if Watchdog, or anyone for that matter, is fighting because a pastor (or any church member) is robbing, stealing, destroying, molesting, raping, and/or anything of the like then allowing and condoning such actions under the guise of "unity" is an outright sin.
Sorry for the long post, WD.
Just my two cents...and a lot more
;)
"Sure, we can say, "God will judge the pastor accordingly," but will God also judge us if we as church members ALLOWED it? "
ReplyDeleteExactly.
The last refuge of scoundrels is to name call those who point out evil charlatans as "haters".
ReplyDeleteNever mind the hate Young shows for his lemmings by pillaging them for his own luxury and comfort in the Name of Christ.
Again, where is the scipture about the Villa Paul bought with tithe dollars outside Laodicea for being so successful in ministry? After all, he deserved it because he brought so many to Christ.
Tom,
ReplyDeleteYou're doing the right thing in persevering. I have to believe that when more people see these "pastors" for what they really are, then the people will leave.
KarenM in NC
The "unity" drivel is typical from seeker megas. I heard it all the time. It is meant to keep down any dissent. You are called a "hater" or divisive, if you dare question the great leader.
ReplyDeleteThey have no clue what scritpure teaches about what Jesus prayed: Spiritual Unity.
That is because they have blind guides who love their position, place and material comforts more than Christ.
If they preached the full Gospel, the gig would be over.
PLEASE, everyone reading this blog and my humble, jumbled comment, stop right now and pray for His grace and love to soften all of our hearts. For the sake of the church in the U.S. as well as those who have yet to have a chance to hear the Good News.
ReplyDeleteMarch 16, 2011 9:41 AM
you want us to pray to soften our hearts toward false doctrine, perverting the Gospel for material gain, making merchanise of people, greed and puffed up egos?
No, we must call them out. But then, you work for them. Did you sign the BFM 2000? If you are a man, I hope your wife never teaches any men anything or you could get fired. Wait, I think it is ok if they are third world native men.
Marketing the Church is Biblical!
ReplyDeleteJesus said "Go into the Hedges and Higways"....that is Buzz Marketing!
The Rainbow is one of the greatest advertising pieces in history!
Paul said "I become all things to all people in order that they may come to Christ"...in other words....
Paul was saying..."haze, strobe lights, loud music, creating an atmosphere like a "Club"...will win the Lost!
That's Bible!!!
Ed's sermon series are amazing...
Pardon me..I'm prospering
Twilight
Bucket List
Sex-The Real Deal
All Jacked Up
Not Dead Iguanas
The Real F-Word
This stuff is cool...None of that preaching thru Leviticus...
My fav is "Crazy Pill"
Looks like some of the readers here need to order that!!!
An excellent and apt sermon for this post and comments ...
ReplyDeleteEmmanuel - Enid [Wade Burleson] 2002 - 2004 > Series on "Romans: The Integrity of God" > #123. Those Who Divide Cannot Hide (Romans 16:17-18)
ANON 8:12...you responded to my comment:
ReplyDeleteyou want us to pray to soften our hearts toward false doctrine, perverting the Gospel for material gain, making merchanise of people, greed and puffed up egos?
No, we must call them out. But then, you work for them. Did you sign the BFM 2000? If you are a man, I hope your wife never teaches any men anything or you could get fired. Wait, I think it is ok if they are third world native men.
I obviously wasn't clear...I'm in your camp! I completely agree with what you are saying. I wish there was a way I could explain further, but don't want to get into it on a public blog. But I'm totally support what WD is doing!
Sorry, should be "I totally support..."
ReplyDeleteI shutter at the idea that Tom is persevering.
ReplyDeleteTom, you are not persevering through anything.
It's naive to think your persevering through some sort of persecution for your actions through this blog.
Shame on you, on all of you, even the pastors who blog here.
Stay focused on your ministry. Don't associate yourselves with these recalcitrant nonbelievers.
Back to Ed Young.
He is not a preacher. He is an inspirational speaker. His church is not a church. He is an abuser of the weak minded. He is a 13 year old boy in a 40 year olds body.
It is sinful to pursue legal action over a matter such as copyright infringement, etc. What a disgrace.
And what a waste of people's money and time making those stupid videos.
No one wants to see a white man pretend to be a black rapper. Ugh. It puts a bad taste in my mouth.
Speaking of taste, we need to do a better job of distinguishing between kool aid and holy water.
Butcher - agreed. No persevering here. Just prospering, enjoying and loving totally life, and blogging about issues in the modern mega church that need to be exposed. I am loving it, and happy as can be.
ReplyDeleteYou see, unlike mega church pastors, I don't view myself as a martry everytime someone criticizes me. I don't try to tell people who criticize me that they are going against God. I don't ignore anonymous criticism, I take it and read it and think about it.
Unlike mega church pastors I don't demand Christians donate 10% of their income to my cause else they are going to suffer the wrath of God.
So please, Butcher, don't "shudder". I am fine.
Deal with it.
Blessings to you.
And Butch - I will gladly wear your label of "recalcitrant", it is a term I have come to cherish, ever since I first heard Paige Patterson use it to describe people at FBC Jax that took issue with Brunson's leadership.
ReplyDeleteA recalcitrant is one who stubbornley refuses to submit to authority and control. And when that authority and control is corrupt, or abusive, or illigitimate, or outside of its bounds, then one should take the position of being a recalcitrant.
But I do reject your label of "unbeliever", as I am a believer.
Deal with that, too, friend.
Recalcitrants unite!
ReplyDeleteI have to admit I am very slow. I finally figured out why Mac Brunson was railing against bloggers for almost a year before Watchdog was outed. Mac was not thin-skinned as I thought before, but more conniving in whipping up the sentiments of the pew sitters against Watchdog.
ReplyDeleteTP: this is what pastors do. They can take on their critics from the pulpit, knowing their faithful followers will "handle it". This is what Thom Rainer was saying, that lay people need to rise up and squelch the critics. Not that the pastor should be more transparent, but that critics should be taken care of.
ReplyDeleteIn the age of the new emergent church where the pastor truly is the CEO and the annointed one - and in some cases the "owner" of the church - we will see more and more of this.
"I don't view myself as a martry everytime someone criticizes me"
ReplyDeleteHave you ever actually read your own stuff Watchdog? This is your stock-in-trade, poor pitiful me, I've been attacked the by the rich and powerful, I'm just a humble saint calling out the sins of others. BTW, can you give me a verse about that?
Sheesh. Pot meet kettle.
On another topic, this anonymous commenting stuff is additictive. I see why so many like doing it, say whatever you want without fear of anybody challenging you. However, my view of Scripture won't allow me to continue. This is a blast from the past, Dee Lauderdale.
Dee - I'll say it again. You and others are wrong if you think I'm feeling sorry for myself, or viewing myself as "persevering through persecution", a martry of some sort. No way.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the reason you and others want to project this on to me, is because you pastors view yourselves in that way. You believe your pastor friends who are subject to criticism, questions, and critiques of their words, are being hindered by the work of the devil himself. To be a pastor criticized often on the Internet is to suffer as a martyr.
But glad to see you're one of the faithful readers all these years.
Pastor Dee is back!
ReplyDeleteA commenter over at pastors.com on the "transitioning the church" thread. Or, in better terms: How to get rid of the dissenters in MY church.
Dee, you are "projecting". Pastors do this all the time. We are used to it even though it is getting old.
ReplyDeleteMy thought is if you can't stand the heat get out of the ministry. A lot of pastors (2,000 Baptist) quit every single year. They realize that they were never called just self appointed and needed to find themselves. Tom is doing a great service showing whats going on in the real world sort of like Glen Beck.
ReplyDeleteOh My, Oh My
ReplyDeletePastor Calls Flock Devils, Demons....
when they refused to give the pastor their tax refunds; he refused to give them their Communion.
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/110315-pastor-calls-flock-devils-demons
Having actually been a pastor, I know that critics come with the territory. The only thing I ever asked was people talk to me face to face. I can give you a long list of names of men and women that did just that. We met behind closed doors and talked it out. Sometimes I was right, sometimes I was wrong but at all times we loved each other throughout.
ReplyDeleteI've also had verified evidence of what people said about me behind my back and without exception each of these people were weak and spineless and the vast majority of the congregation knew it.
I don't know Mac but I do know a few other pastors whose names are drug through the mud on this site on a regular basis. Are they perfect? My goodness, not by a long shot. But for the love, be man or woman enough to at least attempt to tell them what you think of them to their faces. that's what scripture requires of you, if they refuse then that's on them.
And before you play the "but they'll be mean to me and do all sorts of evil to me...." card, there is nothing in Scripture to support cowardice. Men and women of faith have been dying for principles for thousands of years.
Lastly, don't try to turn this back on Mac, me or any other pastor's behaviors. YOU are responsbile and will give account for YOU not anyone else. That thought alone should be enough to keep anybody busy.
Now let the feeding frenzy begin. And as always I stand ready to discuss with anybody who wants to contact me. Email dee.lauderdale@gmail.com or my website, deelauderdale.com.
Peace
My take is that Ed Young turns more people away from the gospel (due to his lifestyle and un-Biblical tithing mandates) than he does winning people to Christ. It's the same ole-same ole, health-wealth gospel.
ReplyDeleteOnce you dare to pull back the curtains, it is not a pretty sight.
Dee, Ed Young Jr. HAS refused Time & Time again to meet with people who have questions regarding his very luxurious lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteHe flat out REFUSES to answer ANY question.
His comments on his own blog are screened and if it's negative he will not post it.
On his own Youtube page ALL the comments are turned off.
Various blogs have tried to contact him to no avail.
Ed Young Jr. will not meet with anyone regarding this matter.
People have tried talking to him face to face but he will have none of it.
Instead he hides behind his Lawyers and PR team.
He didn't even offer an apology to his Congregation when this whole fiasco was going on.
FWIW, I'm not a fan of Ed's. I have a very close connection to one of the guys on his advisory/oversight team and know him to be nothing but a fanboy of Ed.
ReplyDeleteIf people really wanted to dig up dirt on Ed they'd do a little investigating on his Miami satellite church. Let's just say there are some fishy reasons he chose Miami.
Sorry Dee, I though you were defending Ed. My apologies.
ReplyDeleteI assume one of the reasons he chose Miami is so that he could go fishing a lot.