"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Saturday, January 8, 2011

Fellowship Church Hypocrisy?

While we work to get the Ed Young, Jr. videos restored on Vimeo, I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of Ed Young, Jr. and Fellowship Church, regarding their take down of videos containing excerpts of his sermons by claiming a copyright infringement.

I wonder if Fellowship Church contacted Gatorade to get approval to use their logo and to make a parody of their trademark name by calling it "Haterade", and then having Ed Young, Jr. take a sip acting and turning his nose up at how nasty it tasted.

Most companies guard the use of their trademarks and logos very carefully, so I doubt Gatorade would actually give approval for the use of their logo and trademark name in this fashion. But who knows, maybe Fellowship Church lawyers sent letters to Gatorade asking for approval and received it. One would hope so, especially considering the video in which this logo and trademark name parody exists had a commercial purpose - unlike my use of his sermon videos - as the entire video was a plug for a church conference to which people had to shell out money to attend.

I enjoyed the Wartburg Watch's post yesterday taking Ed Young to task for the takedown move. Go read it here.

Below are still shots from the Ed Young YouTube video for the Hillsong Church Conference containing the "HaterAde"....and I'm using these under the Fair Use doctrine. That would be funny, if Fellowship Church files a copyright infringement claim with Google regarding my use of pictures of his video in which he is using a copyrighted logo and trademark of a commercial product - but I wouldn't be surprised!

79 comments:

Anonymous said...

I think I will send this to the Gatorade folks.

Katie said...

WD,

Some years ago, when I was teaching young people the skills of being a Hospital Corpsman in the Navy, each class designed their own T-Shirt. It was there that I learned a little about copyright law and infringement.

A person may use copyrighted material IF it is altered at least 10%. Not very much, but it is legal.

However, I don't know if the same applies to video images.

Anonymous said...

"A person may use copyrighted material IF it is altered at least 10%. Not very much, but it is legal."

Not if it used in certain ways that are offensive. Branding is all about perception..my guess is that Ed's copyright people checked this out first. Most mega's have a full time copyright person.

I doubt if Gatorade knows what they did with it, though. My guess is that Ed's people had their ducks in a row, just in case, though.

New BBC Open Forum said...

JLE,

If you're interested the rest of my reply has finally successfully posted. Begin here:

http://tinyurl.com/2ff8z5x

Jon L. Estes said...

Not there BBC

New BBC Open Forum said...

It is now, but I have no idea how long it will be there so look quickly! Did I mention I loathe Blogger when it gets buggy like this?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Okay, that one posted three times and lasted about 5 minutes. Wake me when Blogger is working again!

Anonymous said...

I think i'm going to write an E-mail to the Gatorade company asking them if Fellowship Church had permession to do that.

In my E-mail, I'm going to say if they did not have permission to PLEASE sue the living daylights out of Fellowship Church.

Anonymous said...

Dear EY:
You are neither funny nor clever with your gangsta videos, in the same way that RJ is neither funny nor clever with his Grinchalert.com website. (In fact they are both an embarrassment.)

But I'm sure that in both cases, people who work for you and who look out for the reputation of the church are not allowed to disuade these "creative" ideas.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:45,
There is no mega church that has hired a full-time copy-right person! You lost all credibility with that dumb statement.
And actually WatchDog, there is a very small window of legal ramifications in this type of "infringement" because of the 10% altering standard, because of the satirical nature (see Saturday Night Live, Mad TV, Family Guy, etc...) and because of the small scale of venue.

Now I will agree that EY has sold his pastor soul at the altar of the shallow gospel, and I find it repulsive that he has gained so much in this world because of the cross. Compare EY Jr to the preaching passion of David Platt and EY Jr comes across like a dim-witted junior high boy.

J. Davis

Anonymous said...

QUESTION: Does anyone have any hard evidence and/or facts about the actual attendance at the Fellowship Church these days? In their church info, I am sure they publish what Ed says print/publish, but I wonder what the “real attendance” has been since the leased Jet debacle, and now the tithe fiasco was brought before the public. If indeed people are catching on to what is going on behind the scenes, then many will start leaving and going else where. So, if anyone knows the attendance trend, PLEASE post it here on this webiste ASAP. Of course, the giving records will also follow the attendnace trends. Thanks, as I would love to see the figures soon.

Anonymous said...

"There is no mega church that has hired a full-time copy-right person! You lost all credibility with that dumb statement.
"

Are you serious? I worked with them all the time on everything from using maps in displays to designing logos. In the age of the internet, you better believe intellectual property is a big deal. No smart mega is going to get caught stealing anything. That is one lawsuit that COULD be won.

Maybe calling them a copyright person was the wrong title...they handled ALL intellectual property issues and in some mega's that is a ton. Some megas are very careful with anything they use and always get written permission first.

And no, I am not giving names. You have the right to think I am dumb. Go for it.

NYTN said...

Just to show you how LAME Ed Young is, he's the one drinking the "haterade", when it's actually the so-called "hater" who's supposed to be drinking it! LOL!

And I might also add that as an AFRICAN-AMERICAN, I find Young's "routine" somewhat offensive. I consider it borderline BLACKFACE MINELSTRY.

Anonymous said...

"There is no mega church that has hired a full-time copy-right person!"

You are naive and uninformed if you really believe that.

Anonymous said...

Ed Young has the perfect face....for radio.

Anonymous said...

spoof logos rarely break copyright laws.

Anonymous said...

Name me the church that has a "full-time copyright person" on staff and I will apologize in front of God, Watchdog and the world.
You've gone overboard Anon...but it sure did make a sensational statement when you wrote it!

J. Davis

Katie said...

Anon 12:45,

I doubt that EY has a person they hire just for copyright issues on a full time basis. They might well have a consultant because we know that many of the megas hire PR firms.

But I do know that facts about the copyright infringment on images copyrighted by anyone, not just huge advertising firms. It was something I had to watch carefully because young people tend to think they can copy and parody anything. Not so, the 10% rule applies. There is one other 'fair use' application. Taking a video of someone and completely superimposing another voice on it to make it look like the person in the video is saying something completely contrary to what was orignally said, is not a parody. It's blatant misrepresentation and the penalty can be severe.

I'm saddened to report that I've seen Ministers of the gospel of Jesus Christ (one particular SBC Pastor comes to mind) do this to belittle another for the express purpose of making them look bad in the eyes of others. I personally find this kind of behavior reprehensible.

Anonymous said...

My comment has nothing to do with the latest article posted by Watchdog but after being in the church services at First Baptist this morning I felt like I had to say something about what went on in the service today. John Blount got up in the pulpit to thank God for allowing the renovation project to be completed and being all paid for. Then he said that the 3 million spent on the project was for the glory of God and then he introduced some of the people who were responsible for the remodeling project. Then I started thinking, usually a renovation project is for the purpose of expanding or making what you already have look better but this renovation project was to make the auditorium SMALLER. So why are we thanking God for a smaller auditorium instead of expanding the auditorium. If Mac Brunson is such a positive influence on First Baptist then why isn't the church growing, why does the news media go to other Pastors in the city for religious comments now when they use to come to First Baptist and why don't you feel the presence of God anymore when you walk into the auditorium.

Anonymous said...

Name me the church that has a "full-time copyright person" on staff and I will apologize in front of God, Watchdog and the world.
You've gone overboard Anon...but it sure did make a sensational statement when you wrote it!

J. Davis

January 9, 2011 7:10 AM

J Davis, You forgot to call me dumb.

Anonymous said...

Unhappy FBC member aka Anon: January 9, 2011 1:43 PM says "If Mac Brunson is such a positive influence on First Baptist then why isn't the church growing" I am not quite sure what coolaid you are drinking, but from the choir loft it is very obvious to all of us the growth in attendance.

Anon goes on to say: "and why don't you feel the presence of God anymore when you walk into the auditorium." OK anon, I'll bite. Then why do you come to FBCJAX. Why not go somewhere where you do "feel the presence of God anymore when you walk into the auditorium." like WBCJAX or the hundreds of other fellowships in N/E Florida?

I say, do you and your family a hugh favor and find a fellowship where you can worship without having all of the distraction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

January 9, 2011 1:43 PM---but this renovation project was to make the auditorium SMALLER.

I am really surprised you are trying to pass off your comments as truth. You should attend more often and then you would know the facts.

FOR THE RECORD:
1. The renovation did shrink the auditorium-FACT
2. The renovation was to create space for our most senior of members so that it was easier on their health not to walk as far as they had been. This design was actually conceived with Dr. Vines.-FACT
3. Thanks was given to God for all of the work being Paid in full-FACT
4. It is common courtesy to thank those responsible for doing the work-FACT
5. It was also to as you say "making what you already have look better"-FACT
6. You say "why does the news media go to other Pastors in the city for religious comments now when they use to come to First Baptist" -FICTION The media typically goes to pastors in the area in question to ask questions and the majority of pastors and church members could care less if the media ever asks any questions!!
7. You are a happy, contented Christian that fellowships at FBCJAX-FICTION. Your comments certainly do not indicate that.

Anonymous said...

Do you think Mac would have closed off the side areas, extended the pulpit area out and taken out the back 3 rows of pews around the 1st floor if he was packing out the auditorium. I don't think so!

Anonymous said...

Do you think Mac would have closed off the side areas, extended the pulpit area out and taken out the back 3 rows of pews around the 1st floor if he was packing out the auditorium. I don't think so!

Way off base anon. The renovations were a fulfillment of promises from Dr. Vines to the seniors and is not about Mac and has been in the planning stages long before he got to FBC. Because of these renovations not only my very elderly parents, but many other elderly are able to attend and not sit at home watching on the boob tube.

Anonymous said...

Anon 4:10 p.m.
Way off base anon. The renovations were a fulfillment of promises from Dr. Vines . . .
==============================
As you say "way off base" . . .Dr. Vines said a lot about having a Senior Building with running track, computer floor and on and on. Didn't we elderly contribute a lot of monies based on his promises about this awesome Senior Building we were supposed to have.

Wasn't Mac's new office supposed to have housed class rooms for the elderly?

As you say"way off base" . . .the only thing one sees in the newspapers about FBCJ come only from the official press releases that comes directly from
them.

The one good thing you've done at First Baptist is run a lot of decent people off - speaking of the
"boob tube" in the manner you did was very unkind when you run 3 (reruns) services every Sunday.

Long Time Member Gone (good you say)

Long Time FBC Jax Member said...

Anon January 9, 2011 1:43 PM,

It's very interesting that you brought up the fact that the FBC Jax auditorium is now smaller. I made the very same observation last week.

I agree that having the Senior Adults classes in the main auditorium is convenient. But, the original plan was to have the church grow. I remember when the new auditorium was built, the idea was to max out seating capacity for the growing congregation. The new classrooms, which are quite large, take up a good many seats, which weren't being used.

As for the removal of the back 3 rows of pews, more space has now been created in the lobby area for sales. Just in time for the Pastor's Conference. We have replaced pew seating with money-making space. Can't charge money for display tables if there's nowhere to put them.

And the new "stage area" is bigger, which will bring more concerts for ticket sales revenue. I guess the church is just trying to remain viable by maxing out it's revenue streams. Christianity has definitely become big business.

Anonymous said...

Lets see how compassionate Mac really is about Seniors: before he even preaches his first sermon as Pastor of First Baptist the church has to fork over $100,000 to build him a new office for him and his wife and their dogs, the church has to lend $800,000 to start the academy and who knows how much money was spent to start up the south campus. And after all the other priorities were done then Mac decides its time for new classrooms for seniors. As far as Dr. Vines, his commitment to seniors was to build a building ACROSS the street so they would be closer to the auditorium, not build classrooms inside the auditorium, by the way, what ever happened to that money that the seniors gave to build their building, did it go into the new classrooms, enquiring minds want to know

Anonymous said...

Normally when I come into church I come in through the doors facing parking garage 3 then I use the stairwell to go up to the balcony where I sit so the only change to the auditorium that I see from the balcony is the extension of the stage and the walls of the new classrooms but today I decided to look at the 1st floor. I was shocked when I noticed the back pews missing and how much space the new classrooms took up. If we would of had the seating we have now back when Dr. Lindsay was preaching in this auditorium, the church would have to have 2 services to make room for everybody, like we did back in the Ruth Lindsay. Even with the smaller seating capacity Mac still can't fill it up.

Anonymous said...

Even with the smaller seating capacity Mac still can't fill it up.

Wise up anon. Even WD's church cannot fill up their large facility any more than FBCJAX percentage wise.

The lack of attendance is church wide in the majority of churches. Many churches have curtailed their services based on attendance by suspending services during the week and evenings.

The majority of churches run full crowds on Sunday AM and evenings run less than half and Wednesday services less than 15% of the Sunday AM crowd.

Perhaps you can tell all the preachers why and replace that muerillo guy.

Long Time Member Gone (good you say)No, not really. Having been at FBCJAX since the later days of Linsey Sr. I have seen em come and go for all kinds of reasons. Some left because they did not like Sr. Some did not like Jr. Some did not like VInes, Some do not like Brunson. Any reason will do I am sure. Personally, I like to think that it is God's way of moving people out of their comfort zone into ministry in other places. I say good if it is God moving you and not selfish pride or sin prompting the move.

And the new "stage area" is bigger, which will bring more concerts for ticket sales revenue. Pretty cynical comment anon. In almost forty years my experience says your ignorant comment wont hold water. Has not in the past and will not in the future.

the church has to lend $800,000 to start the academy--Anon, if you showed up to any business meetings you would know that it was $500,000. IF you want to spin, spin the facts as they are and not like Congress does.

Long Time FBC Jax Member said...

Anon January 9, 5:19 pm

......" what ever happened to that money that the seniors gave to build their building, did it go into the new classrooms, enquiring minds want to know."

It went toward buying the new high definition television equipment, under Jerry Vines. I really believe the Seniors were deceived by the old "bait and switch."

Anonymous said...

"It went toward buying the new high definition television equipment" Sorry to disappoint anon, but the high def stuff was a totally separate campaign, but if you don't believe it contact Jerry Vines at
jerryvines.com and perhaps he will respond to your inquiry but I doubt it.

Anonymous said...

Mac loves Jesus! Look at how he treats people. Respectfully, lovingly, and with great patience. He took so much from certain bloggers (you know who you are) but handled himself with such grace. I wish personally this blog would close. I have asked God to close it. I believe God wants it to end. I know Mac is a Prophet and that a Prophet is not welcome in his own town. Maybe it's time to repent of being mean to Mac, being hateful and hurtful to my Pastor.

Anonymous said...

Anon January 9, 10:42pm said....

"Mac loves Jesus! Look at how he treats people ."

Still no public apology to Tom Rich and his family, for calling him hurtful names in the local newspaper, and delivering trespass warnings on the evening before Thanksgiving.

" I know Mac is a Prophet ....."

Prophet.......or Profit ?

"......a Prophet is not welcome in his own town."

Wrong. You were welcomed to FBC Jax in quite the grand fashion. You accepted a $307,000 gift of land in an exclusive, gated community. You accepted free use of a million dollar beachfront condo, while your million dollar home was being custom built. You accepted paid time off to finish writing a book.

"I wish personally this blog would close."

This blog is not your problem. It's the attitude you convey to the congregation, both from the pulpit and from your lifestyle. Please, humble yourself and pray. Visit the sick, give to the needy, and set the example. Leadership comes from the top. Model a servant's heart. Preach Jesus.

The Greenhouse Effect said...

Anon January 10, 2011 12:08 AM

I think you are describing what I am talking about when I ask ...

Where is THE Storehouse?

We are supposed to bring our tithes to the Storehouse. This presumes that there is a storehose. In other words, the Church is supposed to be maintaing a storehouse with our tithes, but the Church is not.

Anonymous said...

"I have asked God to close it. I believe God wants it to end. I know Mac is a Prophet and that a Prophet is not welcome in his own town. "

This is what is coming out of FBCJax these days? Scary.

Mac is not welcome in Jax? Then why did a reporter quote him that Tom was a sociopath?

BTW: The "prophets" suffered PHYSICALLY...both in body and financially. How does Mac compare to that? His ego is hurt for being questioned by a blogger who would have been ignored if Mac had not bothered using the civil authorites to shut it down.

Go drink some more koolaid. I note you focus on Mac. Hope you focus on Christ someday.

Anonymous said...

Sorry to disappoint anon, but the high def stuff was a totally separate campaign, but if you don't believe it contact Jerry Vines at
jerryvines.com and perhaps he will respond to your inquiry but I doubt it.

January 9, 2011 8:45 PM

The old "budget line" excuse. Does not really matter what it bought if it did not buy what they claimed it would buy when they asked for the money.

Anonymous said...

"The old "budget line" excuse. Does not really matter what it bought if it did not buy what they claimed it would buy when they asked for the money."

January 10, 2011 9:18 AM


That's right and I recall Dr. Vines being almost giddy saying that they wanted to have the project finished to show our visitor's coming in for the Pastor's Conference! What they forget is that some people sitting in the pews are not all deaf and do remember what was actually said. So be it!

Anonymous said...

Mac loves Jesus! Look at how he treats people. Respectfully, lovingly, and with great patience. He took so much from certain bloggers (you know who you are) but handled himself with such grace. I wish personally this blog would close. I have asked God to close it. I believe God wants it to end. I know Mac is a Prophet and that a Prophet is not welcome in his own town. Maybe it's time to repent of being mean to Mac, being hateful and hurtful to my Pastor.

You can't possibly be for real. Why hasn't God closed it then? Please tell me this is a joke!

Anonymous said...

"You can't possibly be for real. Why hasn't God closed it then? Please tell me this is a joke!"

Same logic the kool-aid drinkers at Jim Jones' church used.

Anonymous said...

" I believe God wants it to end. I know Mac is a Prophet and that a Prophet is not welcome in his own town. Maybe it's time to repent of being mean to Mac, being hateful and hurtful to my Pastor."

When is your "pastor" going to repent for what he did? Of course, being a "pastor" it was not evil pride and ego, was it? AFter all, he is PAID to be a Christian.

Anonymous said...

When are the mind control slaves at FBCJ going to understand that they are being sold a lie and not purpose of Jesus Christ but a crusade. A crusade of all kinds of things I will not mention. WE should be thankful for people such as the FBC Jax Watchdog. In 95% of the world countries he would be in jail with the key missing, wife raped, etc for tring to spread truth.

Jon L. Estes said...

There is a difference in what the video pictures you show and the videos no longer available.

The HaterAde was not done to belittle or criticize Gatorade. The videos posted on this blog are done to belittle or criticize the person on the video.

No hypocrisy.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Apparently logic and proofs are not taught at seminary.

Jon says:

The HaterAde was not done to belittle or criticize Gatorade. The videos posted on this blog are done to belittle or criticize the person on the video.

No hypocrisy.

----------------

All house cats are felines

All felines have four legs

Therefore the sky is blue.

Love it!

Anonymous said...

Pastor Mac has NEVER been cruel, rude, or mean to anyone!

YET, there are those who continually drag him and his sweet family thru the MUD!

There are THOUSANDS of us who follow Pastor Mac, LOVE Pastor Mac, and TRUST him completely!

WE ARE THE SILENT MAJORITY!!

OUR CHURCH IS GROWING!! PASTOR MAC'S INFLUENCE IS GROWING!! GOD IS BLESSING US REAL GOOD!!!

Let's stop this madness and let's come back together at God's House and come to the Altar and make things right with God!!

Anonymous said...

PASTOR MAC'S INFLUENCE IS GROWING!!

what dose this mean?

Anonymous said...

WE ARE THE SILENT MAJORITY!!

Yes we are!! 2011 will not be like 2010!

We will stop being silent while our Pastor is talked about like he is the Anti-Christ!!

WE ARE MAC'S MISSIONARIES!!

HE IS GOD'S MAN....GO MAC!!!

Jon L. Estes said...

"All house cats are felines

All felines have four legs

Therefore the sky is blue.

Love it!"

I disagree with your assessment. What parallels do the vimeo video used (now deleted by vimeo) have with the haterade video? what differences are there? of course, your use of the haterady item also is not to demean Gatorade but to criticize or belittle EY. tell mer how EY's haterade clip criticizes or belittles gatorade?

This is a major difference in the manner for the intent of the usage. Hypocritical in the comparisons made by this blog? Yes.

Jim said...

"Silent majority," you might want to talk to some of the folks in High Point, NC before you continue with the ridiculous assertion that "Pastor Mac has NEVER been cruel, rude or mean to anyone." That powered sugary beverage you are drinking must have harmed some of your brain cells.

Anonymous said...

You should be a missionary of Jesus Christ. You sound like some templer ready to do any thing Brunson says. Your missionary work to Jesus Christ dose not require castration. He gave you a mouth to open. Jesus was killed because of his mouth.


We will stop being silent while our Pastor is talked about like he is the Anti-Christ!! - what dose this mean - too much meth maby?

WE ARE MAC'S (slaves)MISSIONARIES!!

Anonymous said...

So Jon, Did Peeples ever get back to you about that headmaster job at FBCJax school that you said you never ever inquired about...

You know, the one you now say you were inquiring about for friends....

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Jon - ok, I'll help.

It is hypocritical, in that if Gatorade were to try to get Ed Young to stop using their logo in his video, Ed Young would tell them that he is using their trademark as a "fair use" in a parody.

In the same way, I am using Ed's sermon in a "fair use" fashion, in a critical, educational piece. My use is protected under the "fair use" as is Ed's.

They want to use someone's copyrighted logo and trade name under the fair use doctrine, but they won't afford someone that same right.

That is why the Vimeo videos will be back up in about 2 weeks, so just hold tight.

Anonymous said...

Tom,

You don't get it. Ed has a title of "pastor" and you don't. In Jon's world, that trumps truth or logic.

They have a living to make off people following them. They have to make folks think they are anointed like a king of Israel. Don't you know that Jon is not AMONG the priesthood but OVER it?

If a "pastor" says the sky is green, it is green. Jon cannot do less, he needs to be important.

Long Time FBC Jax Member said...

Anon January 10, 2011 11:40 PM,

Excellent insight, and very well stated !

Anonymous said...

Anon. January 10 @ 9:19 pm said...

"WE ARE MAC'S MISSIONARIES!!

HE IS GOD'S MAN....GO MAC!! "

Mac did not die on the Cross for your sins. This statement represents idolatry in one of it's worst forms. Follow Christ, not man.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Jon E - FYI...I did see your post come through via email alert, but then it disappeared. Try posting again...there have been some problems with Google posting, or tell me and I'll post what you posted for you as I have a copy via email alert.

Anonymous said...

Ed Young is like a teen that never grew up and found a way to make money from not growing up.

Anonymous said...

Remember when Ben used to criticize everyone for posting anonymously?

He was a cheerleader for Mac and had a bad habit of using capital letters to punch up his illogical points. (GO MAC!!!)

Scan through these comments and see if anything looks familiar to you.

Anonymous said...

Is Mac the Pastor at FBC Jax?

If God wanted him gone, is he able to remove him?

Could it be that the Lord sent Mac to our Church to purify it?

What does it say about YOU when YOU stand against THE ONE whom God ANOINTED?

Isn't disobedience depressing?

Sweet Tea Drinker said...

Isn't Tom Rich the owner of this blog?

If God wanted this blog removed He would do it.

God allowed Tom to suffer at the hand of Mac, so that the true Church could be purified.

What does it say about YOU when you worship a mere man, rather than Christ?

Isn't disobedience depressing ?

Anonymous said...

"Is Mac the Pastor at FBC Jax?"

Define pastor - please use a scriptural reference. I'll save you some time. The office as it is practiced today was not a position in the first century NT church. Perhaps the first church was set up that way so that people like ALL CAPS Ben wouldn't be tempted to worship a man instead of Christ.

"If God wanted him gone, is he able to remove him?"

Your logic here is that if God doesn't approve of someone he strikes him dead or steps in and removes him from office. How many times in the Bible has that happened as opposed to God's people removing a man from his position? I seem to remember God instructing the Israelites to go to war against other nations and wipe out evil people and empires. Using your logic God wasted a lot of lives when he could have done it himself.

Should we cut the parts out of the Bible that refer to church discipline or does that not apply to God's specially anointed man? If that is the case, please show me in scripture where the pastor (an office not held in the 1st century church) was given a special anointing that was not given to every child of God. Again I can save you some time by pointing you toward the concept of the priesthood of all believers.

Anonymous said...

"Could it be that the Lord sent Mac to our Church to purify it?"

The scripture teaches us to judge a tree by it's fruit. If everyone followed Mac's example of accepting huge land gifts (when writing in his book not to do that exact thing), ugly name calling in public those who disagree with you, and an extravagant life-style - would the church be more or less holy? Would Christ follow that example as a way to "purify the church?"

"What does it say about YOU when YOU stand against THE ONE whom God ANOINTED?"

Again with the caps? Your leap of logic here is that the pastor (a position not held in the 1st century church) has some kind of untouchable anointing. Baptists don't have popes. If you read I John you will discover that ALL CHRISTIANS (now there is a good place for all caps) have a special anointing. Stop worshiping men and get into God's word.

"Isn't disobedience depressing?"

Yes it is. But what is more depressing is a Christian who sits in the pew every week and the only thing he knows is what his pastor has told him. He has never learned how to interpret scripture correctly for himself. As long as you are in that position, you will never know the truth.

And by the way, it is painfully obvious by your cheerleader style, lack of discernment and wacky all caps (in place of reason) delivery that old Ben is posting anonymously. How many times did you criticize people on this blog for posting anonymously? Hypocritical.

Junkster said...

The Onion Report: Majority Of Money Donated At Church Doesn't Make It To God

Anonymous said...

Hey Junkster, you do realize that the "Onion" is a satire magazine...you do realize that...right?

See people, this is the problem with many of Mac's critics!

They will go to any length to run down Mac, run down Ed Young, run down Ergun with ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS but a SATIRE MAGAZINE THAT HAS AS ITS HEADLINE....

That Alberto Pujols got the key to St. Louis and it opens every home in St. Louis!

And you call Mac dumb....

Anonymous said...

The ORION report reported


The IRS knows that money streaming at churches is a fraud. You better be careful The IRS is not a friend to a single person. You might need to truly repent one day or maby mac influance can get him off.

Anonymous said...

"Hey Junkster, you do realize that the "Onion" is a satire magazine...you do realize that...right?"

Junk is well aware the Onion is satire...so is anyone who has been around the net for the past 10 years. The Onion is well known among computer geeks.

Their stuff on Saddam during Gulf 2 was hysterical. There is always truth in good humor. That is what makes it so humorous.

You sound like you are about 12.

Anonymous said...

If one thinks the Junkster does not know the Onion is satire, then one has not been around the Junster much.

One should ask before one leaps to such conclusions. Now, it just looks like you are looking for something....anything...not very clever of you.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 7:25 said:
They will go to any length to run down Mac, run down Ed Young, run down Ergun with ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS

xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hold up there cupcake, the facts on EY, Ergun and Mac B. have all been documented clearly and repeatedly on this blog and others.

Your statement is just plain false, please try again.

Garlando

Anonymous said...

Your statement is just plain false, please try again.

specifically what statment is false?

Anonymous said...

"They will go to any length to run down Mac, run down Ed Young, run down Ergun with ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS"

Mac: His own words and actions are FACTS that are known to many. Subpeonas, calling WD a sociopath to reporter and his own words in sermons are all documented.

Ed Young: His own words and actions....again.

Caner: His own words about himself and his background do not match PUBLIC records.

What "facts" are missing. What you are really upset about are your "feelings", not facts. You want the "facts" to go away.

Long Time FBC Jax Member said...

Do we each love Jesus Christ? If so our  love for Him is the result of His love for us. You see, the truth that we truly know Jesus Christ is not measured by the degrees we post on a wall but by the degree of love for Him that burns in our hearts.

By Francis Frangipane

And I will be Found by you. Chapter 12 P. 82.

Anonymous said...

I never got any facts or examples of "most mega [churches] having a full-time copyright person" on staff." Anon on 1/8, 12:45 makes that sensational statement then several Anons repeat it, including one that says "I'm not giving names".

Really? An Anonymous blogger isn't going to give names?

Again, EY's behavior and inmaturity causes my stomach to become nauseated...but so does sweeping statements of megachurches having full-time copyright persons on staff.

The problem with anonymous blogs is no accountability in statements written.

J. Davis

The Greenhouse Effect said...

Junkster,
I loved the news brief link you posted. The IRS determines that 65% of all donations to churches never reaches God. I wonder how much ever reaches THE Storehouse. It is probably even less. In other words, almost none of the money actually goes towards maintaining the Storehouse for the needy members of a church. You cannot go to your mega church and get help anymore. They make sure they are inaccessible to the members.

Anonymous said...

"Hey Junkster, you do realize that the "Onion" is a satire magazine...you do realize that...right?"

Wow - thanks for the news flash! In a related story, Mad magazine is not to be taken literally.

"See people, this is the problem with many of Mac's critics!"

How is a link to a humorous article a critique of Mac? Hypersensitive?

"They will go to any length to run down Mac, run down Ed Young, run down Ergun with ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS but a SATIRE MAGAZINE THAT HAS AS ITS HEADLINE...."

Ben will go to any length to defend unChristlike behavior as long as a "specially anointed" pastor does it. Ignore the facts and worship the man. No accountability and no church discipline. That's what the Bible teaches.

Did you spill something on your keyboard? Your caps lock key keeps sticking. Very mature.

Anonymous said...

Christianity Today International

So, where does our church money go? As church fund-raising gets more challenging, this is the right question to ask, and this 62-page survey of church budgets gives us the statistical breakdown.

This survey of U.S. pastors finds that most churches spend most money on staff compensation ($118,601 from an average budget of $292,790). This is followed by facilities ($54,194), missions ($45,259), church programs ($24,675), administration and supplies ($17,853), denominational contributions and fees ($11,539) and miscellaneous ($25,430).

The study breaks down the churches based on size, type of pastoral leadership, and attitude toward debt. The report offers no conclusions; the statistics are simply laid out for the reader to digest.

Of special interest is the chart on page 22 outlining methods used by churches to encourage giving: The majority of respondents (84%) cited the occasional sermon on giving as the main method of encouraging giving. Teaching on the Old Testament practice of tithing follows (72%), then “leaving it up to the Lord” (37%), “creating special programs” (35%), pledge requests (34%) and other methods (12%).

Churches with senior pastors or churches in debt are more likely to focus on training the congregants in tithing and pledging. This information says much concerning the need to raise awareness about generosity in the church as a whole.

The Greenhouse Effect said...

Anon January 12, 2011 10:57 AM

Thanks for the good reference. Reading between the lines, it seems that less than ten percent actually goes to shepparding the flock. The rest is pocketed in some way. I guess they are going by the 10% rule also. I would venture to say, that God would expect the reverse to be true. We give 10% and the church spends 90% of the tithe to sheppard the flock.

Anonymous said...

I never got any facts or examples of "most mega [churches] having a full-time copyright person" on staff." Anon on 1/8, 12:45 makes that sensational statement then several Anons repeat it, including one that says "I'm not giving names".

There are how many "J.Davis'" in the world? Might as well be anonymous. Tells us nothing. Only that you are clueless about what goes on in many mega's across this great land of ours.

Junkster said...

Anonymous January 11, 2011 7:25 PM said...
Hey Junkster, you do realize that the "Onion" is a satire magazine...you do realize that...right?


Really?? Wow, thanks for letting me know!

Junkster said...

Anonymous January 11, 2011 9:04 PM said...
Junk is well aware the Onion is satire...so is anyone who has been around the net for the past 10 years. The Onion is well known among computer geeks.


Did I just get called a geek? :)

Anonymous said...

Anonymous January 11, 2011 9:04 PM said...
Junk is well aware the Onion is satire...so is anyone who has been around the net for the past 10 years. The Onion is well known among computer geeks.

Did I just get called a geek? :)

January 12, 2011 5:42 PM

Nowadays it is a compliment. They were the nerds in HS we now wish we had paid more attention to.