"....the cult of celebrity has seeped into our sanctuaries...Too many people in the pews would rather have a celebrity in the pulpit instead of a good shepherd of souls, a good servant leader...Is it any surprise, then, that the Church has been rocked over the last few decades by clerical scandals?" Charles Colson, 1/4/12 Christian Post."Sex is here [pointing to his head], before it is here [pointing to his crotch at left]. Order the book today, the 'Sexperiment' will change your life." Ed Young promo video for his new sermon series and book.
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Charles Colson wrote an article last week about how the "cult of celebrity" has crept into the church. This topic has been something I have discussed and given examples of on this blog for several years. The cult of celebrity has given us preachers who arrive on the mega church scene with phony stories and credentials and false motives to get their hands on people's pocketbooks or their sexual organs or both, preying on the gullibility of Christians wanting to listen to great story tellers rather than humble preachers. It has given us preachers who have the freedom and power to stand on their mega stage to completely misuse scripture and threaten people into forking over more money to purchase God's protection from some phony curse.I can't think of a more timely example of the cult of celebrity than Ed Young's latest sermon series "Sexperiment", and the release of he and his wife's new book of the same name released to coincide with the sermon series designed to help people see how "...sex done God’s way can lead to a life punctuated by exclamation marks." Now THAT gospel will sell, brother!
Do Christians - does ANYONE - really need Ed and Lisa Young to tell them how to have a great sex life? Apparently Ed is a financial expert and tells you how to avoid curses through tithing - and now he is going to tell you how great sex can be, as though we didn't know! Do people need to be enticed to come hear his sermon series with a promo video entitled "Locations" depicting seven locations for sex in your house: the kitchen, the landing of a staircase, a car in the garage, the living room (as seen below):
And Fellowship Church members I'm sure are proud that their "tithes" withdrawn from their checking account are being used to produce another "Sexperiment" promo video entitled "Bang" featuring images depicting male orgasm, very similar to the images that KY Lubricants uses to sell their product lines of couples' lubricants: space shuttle launching, a car going into a tunnel, a geyser expelling water and steam - and finally a cork exploding out of a bottle with the words "Start your year off...with a BANG." Yes, Christians, you need your pastor and your church to tell you to have MORE SEX!
The proof that these mega churches are overcome with their own celebrity is that they, like many celebrities who are really just "famous for being famous" as Colson said - they think they are experts on matters they either know nothing about, or that they have no special knowledge or experience in. And sometimes they are just flat out quacks who give out wrong, harmful information and use scripture to get people to buy their nonsense. Take Robert Morris: he went to preach last year at Rick Warren's church to deliver his phony-baloney tithing sermon, and Rick Warren actually described Morris to his church as a leading financial expert. No, when it comes to finances, Morris is a quack. He teaches false, harmful, damaging doctrine about buying protection from God's curses.But you do have to hand it to Young, as he is breaking new ground in church marketing. What better way to maximize sales for your new book, than to hype it on your church website, make its release coincide with your sermon series, and then have a gimmick media event such as Ed's "bed in" where he and his wife will stay in bed for 24 hours straight in a bed on top of the church. You can sell the book like hotcakes in your church during the sermon series.
Mega church pastors everywhere, take note, Ed shows you how to do it. Don't take your sermon series after-the-fact and turn the sermons into a book - instead, write the book, release it to coincide with the sermon series, and market it to the hilt with promo videos prepared for free by the church video production crew.
I can't wait to see how the likes of Perry Noble, Steven Furtick, and the rest of the mega pastor gang follow Ed's lead on this.
The only disappointment: that Ed Young won't appear in Elephant Room II so that the pastors at FBC Jax's pastor's conference could sit at the feet of Ed Young, along with T.D. Jakes and James MacDonald, and learn from the best on how to be a great pastor.
132 comments:
You won't want to miss Mark Driscoll on Dr. Drew tonight HSN talking about great sex. What a great way to get people into the church. Maybe a stripper pole would help too.
As they say "sex sells"
It's all about the benjamins.
Dog, I think you are dead on with this post, but I think you missed one very important fact: This isn't about selling the book to his congregation, this is about selling hundreds of thousands of copies of this book across the country.
You see, Ed knows (because it happened 3 years ago when he originally taught this series) that when a preacher puts a bed on stage for the Sunday services, the likes of ABC, CNN, CBS, GMA, you get the picture, all want to interview Lisa and him. And what will go along with those raunchy interviews, you bet, a copy of the book held high and prominent in the segment.
This whole event has 10% to do with strengthening marriages in his congregation, and 90% to do with national coverage and book sales, so Ed can enter the book-zone that Driscoll, Bell, Jakes and Osteen enjoys.
Never I have I seen a "southern baptist" preacher be so disgustingly merchandising than this stunt. He and Lisa should be so ashamed. I don't care what he does with the money (ostensibly he 'tithed' the 6-figure advance to the church), this is pathetic and FC members need to wake up and hold that man/wife accountable for the cloud that engulfs that place.
An old adage is true here: Follow the Money.
"Friends, celebrity worship - in my book Being the Body I call it the Pedestal Complex - has no place in the Church. Let’s honor and care for our spiritual leaders, of course. But let’s be sure to keep them off our pedestals - for their sake and for ours."
Quote from the Charles Colson article.
What gets me is that the Convention will vote a church out for having a woman minister in less time than the news spread that the church had a woman minister, yet Ed Young is still considered Southern Baptist when he is more like TBN.
Watchdog,
Been reading you for a long time but just now commenting...so I am excited to share my opinion..
I really don't mind the biblical teachings from pastors on the subject of sex. In fact, thank God that "some" pastors are dealing with a subject that the bible DOES speak about.
HOWEVER, what is troubling and scaring me is the "media-machine" type of commercialization, especially the blatant sexual images that you show in your blog that Mr. Young is using to promote this latest stunt.
As someone who has travelled into churches for over twenty years as an evangelist who still believes in the power of revival (i think evangelist is still a biblical calling and an office!), what gives me a pain that I can't locate is when pastors promote to be "teaching" on subjects something that other churches dare to trod, as if they are the only ones with guts to preach the truth.
I am so SICK of gimmicks!!!!
Over the course of my ministry, this has scared me, because it creates a mentality within the laypeople that their pastor speaks in a way that no one else has the guts to speak. Among younger leaders, there seems to be a race to become the one with the next controversial series. I guess so it can bring in numbers. It breaks my heart to see this.
I am with pastors on a continual basis who preach, teach, short, rebuke, and slam truth on a weekly basis. There are no light shows, smoke, confetti, or sexual innuendoes printed to bring "truth" to the masses.
My friends who have no desire for church all say the same thing to me; "The church is SO cheap with their little rock show mentalities and goofy campaigns." I even had one friend, who is very famous and extremely wealthy in country music say to me recently, "If I DO go back to church, I want them to unashamedly preach Jesus. I put on shows nine months per year in my industry." Kind of insightful.
I guess the saying is becoming more true now than ever before: "We have so many stars in the church that you can't see Jesus."
Thanks Dog for your blog.
Thanks for all you do....
Well the publicity is working. He just had an appearance on CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/living/2012/01/08/nr-sexperiment-intv.cnn
He says he is giving the proceeds to the church. Not sure I believe it, but maybe it will help the huge shortfall from all of the people that have left over the last couple of years. There are a few people from FC that didn't get brainwashed and got the heck out of there. I am so embarassed that I ever went there!
This is so disgusting. No wonder people are leaving the church - I agree with Anon 11:22 who said:
"We have so many stars in the church that you can't see Jesus." The SBC is so blind to buid him up and yet as Fox News reported ask to hold emgercy meetings to discount Mitt Romney for president - they too have lost respect.
In the promo video, when Ed touches his crotch with the book, Lisa hangs her head and puts her hand up to her face in shame/embarrassment. That sums up what everyone should do concerning this series.
The best part is these preachers speaking so surely and casually about what God wants. As if they actually know what God wants. Oh wait, I guess God told them.
In the Old Testament, you could have a bunch of wives, right? They were your property. In the New Testament, I don't remember Jesus worrying too much about whether you had a great sex life. I think he emphasized other things.
So one of the weirdest things is how they always try to vaguely tie it into the Bible-or their interpretation of the Bible.
Before it's over, the church will have no dignity left.
They should play that song "I'm too sexy for my shirt" as Ed walks onto the stage to start the series.
They are sleeping on a bed on top of the church for 24 hours to promote the event?
Does it get any more gimmicky than that?
Did you notice the CNN reporter calling out Ed on one of his quotes in the book about getting God into bed with the couple?
He said that he thought that quote was sacrilegious.
There's a role reversal.
Aargghhh! I gave money to that church for a couple of years. I repent!
Haha. Dog, this post cracks me up. Are they really going to stay in bed on top of the church? I'm sorry, but I am honestly doing a major "LOL" here in front of my computer. This is great stuff. Where do we find these guys?
Everytime I heard Ed preach in person I thought his gestures and mannerisms were extremely feminine, so I am a little surprised at his latest gimmick. This whole thing is sickening and a disgrace.
Vomitrocious.
some people, if they thought it would make money would get up there and have sex. And this is nothing new, because the marketing techniques that have been used for multiple years to sell Christian products, have been crafty, and have been manipulative to say the least. And thats all I'll say...i.e. the cork on the champagne bottle. 10:33 its ALWAYS been all about the benjamins. ROFL idolatry at its sickeningest.
hey one more thing...do people understand why God is blessing Tim Tebow? Did you SEE how many times John 3:16 was googled last night? John 3:16 folks, thats why he's being BLESSED...wake up mega preachers and fancy smancy christian musicians.
Ed Young is a terrible sight with his clothes ON!
These "preachers" make me SICK!!! I am so tired of their nonsense. I am even more tired of the morons who enable and support them. WAKE UP, CHURCH. YOU ARE BEING USED BY CHARLATANS!!!
Too sick and disgusting for words. God help us.
Former Fellow - no doubt about it, this is a national campaign to sell his book. It is marketing genius.
Debbie - good point. In fact, Ed's wife is described as a "pastor", and they do have women preach at Fellowship Church. Go figure.
"Reader" - thanks for making your first post. I too can't stand the gimmicks in church. They insult one's intelligence often times, and they are embarrassing.
Anon 1:42 - If they do play "I'm too sexy for my shirt" for Ed, it would be a parody. He should move to New York and play Lerch on the Addams Family broadway show.
Anon 1:56 - yes, the reporter seemed somewhat disgusted over the story.
Only 4 hours until the book is available for purchase!!
This is so, so 1960's.
Let's just call 'em "John & Yoko Young" shall we?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bed-In
/
Nice one, Anon! Readers, do a Google images search on "John Lennon bed-in" and you can see pictures of their own "bed in".
And here I thought Ed and Lisa thought it up themselves.
Forget about the cult of personality, ridiculous gimmicks and prostitution of the church...I for one, am just thankful the guy is straight. If I met him on the street I would never suspect such.
Several women have preached at Fellowship Church through the years.
Several women have the title "Pastor" and carry great sway as they teach women...and men.
Fellowship will never get kicked out because it's one of the largest Southern Baptist Churches in the country.
Fellowship carries tremendous influence due to the bloodline of the pastor as well as the scattering of young clergy who spent much of their training years at Southwestern attending Fellowship.
It's easy to boot out some church most of us have never heard of but you'll never see anyone even suggest that Fellowship get the boot.
Ed Young, Jr. will be president of the Convention within thirty years and we'll get to see it all happen.
Ed said recently that God wants us to have all our needs met, even behind closed doors.
Ed said that Sex is REQUIRED by a Wife, whether she wants to or not.
Ed said his book will put smiles on your faces all week long.
Ed said the Haters are just suppressed in the bedroom...is that true Dog?
DOG -
ANOTHER HEARTBREAKING STORY ABOUT SEXUAL ABUSE AND YOUTH MINISTER AT WWW.ABPNEWS.COM. MIKE SHAW, THE PASTOR WHO HELD A FUNDRAISER FOR HIS FAMILY, IS THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE ALABAMA BAPTIST CONVENTION!
Funny...I tried to watch the video, but my viewing filter, SAFE EYES is blocking it. That certainly says something, huh? Or not??
BTW Anon 10:22...please remember, marriage does NOT mean a man is straight! This is not a reflection on the pastor. I've never met him. Just wanted to point out the wrong assumptions that can be made when stereotyping in that way.
"Vomitrocious"
Great word. That's what I think every time I read Tom's pontification of his arch nemesis Mac Brunson.
My 22-yr.-old daughter, hearing of this, had one word, "creepy," and had no interest in hearing more about it.
That seemed to describe it well-a bunch of creepy people doing creepy things.
IT'S GETTING CRAZIER AND CRAZIER....
WDTN News reported that a pastor in Flint Township, Michigan is doing "everything he can" to reach the people in his community—including opening a tattoo parlor inside his church. Rev. Steve Bentley of The Bridge Church, which occupies space in a local shopping center, says he's reaching out to those who might not ever set foot inside a church.
When criticized that tattoo application is not an appropriate activity for a house of worship, Bentley disagrees, saying the practice is "morally neutral," like having your ears pierced. Two tattoo artists work at the shop, called Serenity Tattoos, which is county-licensed and only allows "positive" imagery in their work. Bentley, who has two tattoos himself, also hosts events like cage fighting and wrestling matches on his campus in hopes of attracting the unchurched in his area
"they do have women preach at Fellowship Church. Go figure"
If that is true, then that is about the only thing they are doing right over there at FC
SERIOUSLY...
" Bentley, who has two tattoos himself, also hosts events like cage fighting and wrestling matches on his campus in hopes of attracting the unchurched in his area"
Hey, maybe we can get a real live Lion and rent out the Jax Arena and have a "loser leave town" match between the Lion and Mac...Charge $100 a head and see Mac go "Daniel" on that lion...
It would be better than putting him up on the roof with Ed...
Hmmm, I'm regretting that I read this after just eating breakfast!
Whatever happened to the Great Commission and James 1:27 ?!
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Sex is something that comes natural. Untold billions of people have figured it out without a lot of coaching from anyone. People who need advice on sex probably should seek out a therapist not a pastor.
Also, people who are eager to offer advice on sex,especially while sleeping in a bed on the roof of a church, need to seek out a therapist immediately.
This guy is nothing but a high paid and overrated clown. The people that continue to support this madness are just as much to blame as he is.What a shame and what ignoramuses these people are to continue to put up with this garbage.
Had Jr had a face lift???
Anon 4:00-Can't tell. Maybe seven straight days of sex will do that for you.
JLCarver
Arrgggghhhh. I can’t believe I was a tithing member at FC Grapevine. Now Ed is “teaching” on sex (again). This will be his third series in what, 5 years on the same topic? “Sexual Revolution”, “7 Day Challenge” and now “Sexperiment”. The blessing is that you as an FC member have the chance (albeit brief) to actually speak with your pastor, provided you buy his book in his bookstore and wait in line for a signing in his church lobby. How did I not see the blatant attempts at marketing? How did I miss the money driven purpose? Why did I look the other way so often and think that whatever the publicity stunt of the week was, it was OK because it allegedly brought the unchurched to FC? How is it that Ed surrounds himself with no one who would dare speak out against him, men who could save him from himself? Ed will say that the “loudest criticism comes from the cheapest seats”. Well Ed, let me tell you something that you already know, the cheap seats are the best place to hear criticism from because they are the most objective. Ed will also deflect criticism by saying that “if you find a perfect church, don’t go there, you’ll ruin it”. Catchy phrase but I’m afraid it’s simply a rationalization to deflect criticism of himself. FC Miami???? Why not FC Buffalo? Oh, that’s right, the fishing may not be as good, you can’t have a beachfront condo, and spend tithes on the private jet to and from your rationalized tiny church absorption in Miami. Ed you have helped me reach a “whole nutha level” of cynicism. I really need to commit to pray for you and for the once Christ centered Fellowship Church in Grapevine. Sure see allot of old FCers at Gateway and The Village. Why do you suppose that is? We all can’t be wrong, or can we?
As much as he thinks and talks about sex, seems to me his thoughts go more in that direction, than getting people saved. He looks more gay than straight in his skin tight designer jeans - something about this guy gives me the creeps.
Here is another criticism from the "cheap seats". This man is gross and creepy and he brings down the message of Christ. May God have mercy on him and open the eyes of those that remain in his congregation.
Had Jr had a face lift???
I think it's seven layers of heavy makeup.
Interestingly, I believe that the demographics of Fellowship Church being around 60% singles. Factor in underage youths and the % of married couples is probably around 30%. He certainly is not thinking of his flock when he preaches, just the massive media blitz and $$$ outside of the four walls of the church he can generate as a result.
With the mrs. and he on paid staff, as well as book deals, merchandising through their multiple corporations, they are easily raking in millions of dollars each year. All on the back of the "mandatory" tithes of FC members.
Ed Young Jr. is the master of turning his paid ministerial salary into filthy lucre through his external media corporations.
Watched Dr Drew. Unfortunately, Bible discernment was a total blank. The idea that you can find this stuff in the "Song of Solomon" is totally false. Chapter and verse was never mentioned. Reason? Its not there. This reminds me of the sex revolution in the 60's. This too will pass!!
God is not mocked. Now we understand the verse "this generation will have to apologize to Sodom. Luke 10:12.
YOu think Ed Young is bad? He is nothing compared the filth (ling below)from Mark Driscoll who will be at the FBCJAX pastors convention:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2084815/Evangelical-pastor-Christians-sexually-explicit-guide-marriage.html
Maybe not a full face lift, but definately jammed with Botox and tanorexic.
I was just imagining explaining to a neighbor that doesn't attend church, "Yeah, we're doing a sexperiment this week over at our church. Oh! And the pastor and his wife are gonna be in a bed on top of the church. What? Oh, no, they aren't going to be actually demonstrating how to have great sex. I guess they'll just sit or lie there and wave at people. Yep, this is what God wants for us!"
News Flash Off Topic:
Gilyard hasn't ruled out starting new church !
http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/7046/53/
Just read the description of "Rev" Driscolls book and it is obvious that he and "Rev" Young are totally out of control and answer to no one in their "church."
I would like to hear what Ed Young, Sr. has to say about Jr. Honestly, have you ever seen in your lifetime, churches that are in the business of everything except winning the lost, feeding the hungry and actually speaking of our sinful nature? Mega churches for the most part, are becoming country clubs where people can have a social life and feel good because they are attending church. They overlook what is obvious to most, for the opportunity of "fitting in" with their church peeps....
I find church very confusing. What is the purpose of it? Is it for the lost? Is it to build up the saved so they can go forth and win the lost?
Is it to do good works? Help other Christians? Help the lost? Just for Christian fellowship? To glorify and praise God? To find out how to have a good marriage? A place to network? To find friends? To study the Bible?
Is it for rituals? Communion? Potlucks?
Can you see why I'm confused? You've got dignified rituals with pastors in robes, all the way down to pastors in bed on a roof. You've got fire-and-brimstone screaming and 10-minute, warm and fuzzy talks. And they all claim to be church and just following the Bible and Jesus.
Anon 5:36
I so could have written your post. Everything you said was exactly accurate. I really think Ed and his sr staff sit around and think of the most outrageous things to say and do, in the name of evangelism, and then they do it.
Then Ed writes a book about it. And do it again to sell the book. I don't know about you, but I often tried to get the staff to "announce" news of a church ministry from the stage only to be told no. In their place: Ed books, Ed tv, Ed twitter, Ed conference, Ed al.
I can't believe I stayed so long. Just kept telling myself the ends justify the means. I now think the ends are all about Ed.
Anonymous 12:58,
RE: "I find church very confusing. What is the purpose of it?"
Sometimes the purpose is to justify salaries of professional christians.
"I find church very confusing. What is the purpose of it?"
It is to give Tom Rich and other dissatisfied members and former members something to VENT and FUME about.
What is the purpose of this blog?
It is to give TROLLS and other kool-aid drinkers and current members something to VENT and FUME about.
The best way to draw a crowd is to drop your pants in public. That is why Ed Young is climbing in bed at church. http://wterryaustin.wordpress.com/
"The best way to draw a crowd is to drop your pants in public. That is why Ed Young is climbing in bed at church. http://wterryaustin.wordpress.com/"
haha-oh yeah, are they gonna have on dress clothes, boxers and a negligee, barefoot, shoes? What if some guy hollers up that he wishes he were in bed with the pastor's wife? What if the pastor and his wife were fat and ugly?
Weather forecast: Friday 6am 25F, moderate wind 7 mph. High at 3pm 52F, Sat 6am 31F, moderate winds all 24 hours. May need straps on the bed covers and longjohns.
Jeffress makes the cover of D Magazine as having ordained himself to "lead America" away from the evils of other religions and lifestyles, Morris out at Gateway is going to make sure we all tithe, even the people our kids date, Chandler will keep us from being "pathetic little boys" or "narcissistic zeroes" because we may challenge decisions, and Young promises us a happier marriage if we'll only go out to our car and have sex.
Oh yeah, and Caner just down the road at ABC to inspire us as well.
So here in Dallas, no one needs to think, pray, figure anything out for themselves or grow spiritually as believers. We got every area of our lives covered for us!
I'm sure Christians all over the country are envious.
You won't have to worry much about that which Ed loves to brag about--it will be frozen off tomorrow.
Alas, what will there be to blog about?
Is the question: Are there any Christian couples out there who could use some biblical and practical help in how to have great sex?, worth responding too in conjunction with the question the title of this post asks?
Weather forecast: Friday 6am 25F, moderate wind 7 mph. High at 3pm 52F, Sat 6am 31F, moderate winds all 24 hours. May need straps on the bed covers and longjohns.
Maybe they'll freeze their butts off and never have to worry about sex again. Schadenfreude....
Dawg, you finally got one right. Hillarious! Good to see you got your sense of humor back.
Here is a link to the Introduction and chapter 1 of Driscoll's book on marriage.
http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/75155553?access_key=key-1ie4tvtibidzn1u5kpw4
Lydia
Let's not forget that TD Jakes is in the DFW Metroplex area as well.
It's a freakin Mecca.
I'm ready for a new topic Dawg.
ROFL 9:23
Its 7:46 a.m. and I'm putting on my coat to go over to Grapevine to watch Ed and his wife put on their show. I'll let you know whether its any good or not when I get home.
BTW, its 32 degrees this morning.
Wade Burleson > Evangelicals and Excessive Sex: Mark Driscoll and Ed Young from Augustine's Perspective
Wade Burleson > The Frozen Chosen Are Leading the Blind Off a Rooftop Into Hell
Oh, no, don't take this down yet - let's see how many believers come out for this performance in 32* degrees - don't these people realize they are making fools of their selfs, thier members, & the church?
I actually liked Pastor Burleson's piece on Evangelicals and excessive sex.
My stomach hurts from laughing.
Dog, you are a genius.
For the record, I don't believe for one minute that Ed Young OR Lisa Young are making no money off this book. Sorry. Ed Young doesn't do anything unless it profits him. Ed may donate HIS proceeds to the church, but what about Lisa? Also, what does "proceeds" mean anyway? A lot of non-profits use that to mean after they have taken care of the administrative aspects to their work. When Ed says that it goes to the church, he says it the same way he tried to cover up his jet and million dollar compensation. His body language is disingenuous.
Just saying. They are making money off this publicity stunt, mark my words. And, why is it "all" given to Fellowship Church anyway? Why not to charity? Is FC just the venue to launder the money?
More coverage. Such shameless promotion.
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/01/13/3657370/grapevine-pastor-wife-hit-the.html
Has anyone been watching this circus today? I understood the "singer" (I use that term loosely) to say Ed and Lisa, who were conspicuously absent, were off getting some "medical stuff" addressed. Frostbite, perhaps?
Ed admits the idea for the "bed-in" came straight from John Lennon.
Ed and Lisa have bad cases of ocular sunburn. That's what you get from looking for love in all the wrong places.
Where are the deacons of Junior's church? Are there any men left who have any discernment? You cannot tell me that a seasoned Baptist congregation is so absolutely deceived. Surely. there are men in the church with enough backbone to stand up and say..."Enough". There will come a reckoning...and those who sit by and let this cult like figure rule over them will surely be found just as guilty. Everyone knows that Junior is making big bucks and living the life....is this prosperity gospel...you bet it is for Junior. I would think that a few good men could undo the damage that has been done. I believe people would welcome someone to stand up...since, they are obviously too timid to speak out.
Where are the deacons of Junior's church? Are there any men left who have any discernment? You cannot tell me that a seasoned Baptist congregation is so absolutely deceived. Surely. there are men in the church with enough backbone to stand up and say..."Enough". There will come a reckoning...and those who sit by and let this cult like figure rule over them will surely be found just as guilty. Everyone knows that Junior is making big bucks and living the life....is this prosperity gospel...you bet it is for Junior. I would think that a few good men could undo the damage that has been done. I believe people would welcome someone to stand up...since, they are obviously too timid to speak out.
Conservative estimates put his membership with about 60% singles. This gimmick is right down their alley.
So if Ed and Lisa weren't there, who stood in for them and what did they do?
Here's a great link to the Ft. Worth writeup complete with pictures of Ed's bed. The article says their church runs 15,000 to 20,000 a week in attendance. They may have been true at one point but that was before they found out about his plane and salary.
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/01/13/3659090/dfw-pastor-and-wife-spend-day.html
There are no deacons or elders at the church.
The people with discernment are all gone. They left a couple of years ago. The lay people - many who had been there since the beginning left. The employees that had the guts to speak up were fired. You ask questions - you are out of there.
Hopeandfaith said:
Where are the deacons of Junior's church? Are there any men left who have any discernment?
There are no elders nor deacons nor public budget nor any real earthly accountability at FC. There are only bobbleheaded staff members who nod approvingly at everything Ed says. Should they voice disagreement, they will be looking for another place of employment.
What was once five services each weekend became four, and is now down to three. With the decline in attendance, and tithes, Ed had to find a way to get free publicity and this stunt has worked well. Unfortunately FC now teaches the prosperity gospel full tilt.
What do you feel about the prosperity gospel?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTc_FoELt8s
Anonymous 9:20 said
“The people with discernment are all gone.”
Thanks for the compliment! Apparently I have discernment.
I have friends who are still members at Ed’s church and are still enamored with the place. How do I get them to see the light without offending, or should I care? I want to ask them plainly, “why do you still go to Fellowship”? Is that too direct?
Don't bother the friends. It's just another country club anyway.
Can it be that Ed Young cannot lead anyone to Christ because perhaps he, himself is not a Christian? Exactly WHERE is he leading people?
Matthew 7:13-14
13 “(A)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Anonymous (January 14, 2012 10:01 AM) said: “I have friends who are still members at Ed’s church and are still enamored with the place. How do I get them to see the light without offending, or should I care? I want to ask them plainly, ‘why do you still go to Fellowship’? Is that too direct?”
Are your friends drinking this church’s kool-aid and being thoroughly intoxicated by it, or are they simply tasting this church’s kool-aid and marveling at how good it tastes? In other words, how “enamored” are they with this church?
Amazon comment section on Sexperiment:
"Last edited by the author on Jan 10, 2012 9:28:47 PM PST
Little ol me says:
Not a big fan of reading hunh? Guess that's why you have never posted any other reviews on here, but felt so darned moved by this book that it was THE ONLY book worthy of a review by you.
Fake reviews do nothing for the credibility of your book. Amazon readers are not stupid to the fact that the twelve reviews that arrived all at once on the very same day the book was released all sound the same and have the same typical and very simple one paragraph make-up. You guys aren't even creative or original! Every one of you twelve fake reviewers have exactly ONE review under your belt, Sexperiment, and none of which even say "verified Amazon purchase". Also adding to the fake factor is the fact that none of your reviews have the advance copy disclaimer! So how did you happen upon reading a book that you weren't given an advance copy of nor is it in stock yet to be shipped? All of this tells me that 1) this book has yet to be read by an actual real person, 2) the publishers are praying this book will sell at all costs, 3) the publishers have stooped to the ultimate low of self inflating the reviews for this book, 4) Ed & Lisa should have invested in better advertising and promotional managers, & 4) Going the cheap route of fake reviews never pays off & wont convince me to buy the book."
1 Thessalonians 5:21 said...
Are your friends drinking this church’s kool-aid and being thoroughly intoxicated by it, or are they simply tasting this church’s kool-aid and marveling at how good it tastes? In other words, how “enamored” are they with this church?
That’s a great question. I believe intoxication would describe it. They drink in the professional show business style worship. The worship is performed and relayed to the audience better technically than any church I’ve seen and better than many entertainment venues provide. The lighting there is spectacular. It’s a very passive environment. The Elevate FC Kids programming while good is also very passive. The children’s wing is bright, colorful and looks fun for the kids. Allot more fun looking than flannel graphs, (although they seemed fun at the time). The backyard has a beautiful lake and baptismal with three scenic crosses across the water, a nice path through the nearby woods, and an outdoor prayer area with an artistic statue of Jesus rising. In short, it’s a package with beautiful wrapping. I think some stay because they’ve been there a long time and it’s difficult to realize, and admit that you may have been making a mistake for so long. It’s difficult to change from such a comfortable habit.
Stole this from Facebook:
Who can argue with? "...sex done God’s way can lead to a life punctuated by exclamation marks."
Although I think God, in the only documented case, relied upon immaculate conception.
Anonymous (January 15, 2012 8:19 AM) said: “I believe intoxication would describe it. They drink in the professional show business style worship. The worship is performed and relayed to the audience better technically than any church I’ve seen and better than many entertainment venues provide ...”
Hmmm. While I do not have personal experience with megachurches like the one which you describe, I have spent a lot of time studying the “worshiptainment” which megachurches offer and how defenders of megachurch worshiptainment describe and defend worshiptainment.
From what I understand, defenders of megachurch worshiptainment seem to reason that if something like a live song or a live act personally impresses or moves them, then what they feel must be “a move of the Spirit” and what impressed or moved them must be “a tool of God.”
And if you ask them how they know that what they believe is true, they simply say, “I just know.” And, if you question what they believe any further, then they usually start getting huffy with you and try to end the conversation with a self-justifying circular argument.
This phenomenon in general seems to be rooted in the anti-intellectual belief that one “experiences God” primarily with their heart within an experientialist context. This essentially means that "experiencing God" is solely a personal act which cannot and should not be called into question.
Now, in terms of solutions, I have been coming to the conclusion that the strategy of “divide and conquer” is the only way in which to snap kool-aid drinkers out of the buzz which their questionable church gives them. Simply put, in order to snap kool-aid drinkers out of their buzz, you must do some research on their personal priorities and, if possible, show each kool-aid drinker how the questionable church which they attend intolerably works against things which they personally consider just as important as their church. For example:
(a) A kool-aid drinker who has the gift of evangelism strongly feels that YHWH El the Spirit is pushing them to start preaching the Biblical Gospel. Yet, when they talk to their authoritarian Pastor about this, their authoritarian Pastor tells them not to do so and, instead, just patiently submit to him idly for no reason. In turn, they become troubled and do not know what to do.
What should you do? As a friend, you can use this situation as an opportunity to convince the said kool-aid drinker that their authoritarian Pastor is exercising bad judgment and, thus, is not trustworthy.
Just make sure that you do your research well, wait for and pick your opportunities well, and handle your conversations in a way in which upholding your friends’ priorities and concerns are always the focal points of discussion.
And, if you do this without any immoral conduct like telling lies or bearing false witness, then your conscience will be clean.
Ok... I know the comments in this thread are fairly long... but I needed to go on here to ask something.
I've been at FC for 2 years, but I'm now leaving. I live in the southern part of DFW. I'm considering Gateway (Rober Morris), but I see a lot of critic of him here as well for the tithing preaching.
Thing is, I've YET to attend a church that DIDN'T preach on "first fruits"/tithing. Is that the only thing that Robert Morris teaches that would be "controversial"? If it is... I'll just settle for that (at least they don't pick up the offering DURING service, they just have offering buckets by the doors as you exit - to me that means: no pressure).
Anyhow, I don't normally leave comments on blogs... but I'm tired of the FC marketing & publicity stunts in the name of "God". My kids don't even like FC anymore! Just by going to Gateway ONCE, they asked to never go back to FC!
Just curious for opinions here. Just an FYI - (and please hear me out) - nothing against them, but I do not like "small" churches. I grew up in those all my life and refuse to go back! That's another story... again, nothing against them... it's just personal preference thanks to life experience.
...one more thing... before anyone suggests "The Village"... it's WAY too far from me! I'm SOUTH DFW, I'm only willing to commute 30-40min for church (anymore than that... it's TOO far).
Thanks everyone!
Gateway church is a good church and probably much more Biblical than Fellowship Church. Don't be overcome with the anti-tithing statements on this blog. The vast majority of pastors will preach and teach the Biblical doctrine of tithing. Go to a good church and keep growing.
Almost 100 comments so far and I've noticed that not even the kool-aid drinkers are trying to defend JR's sex lessons series.
My only question is how he will tie this sermon series into his false first fruits tithing doctrine.
Not sure how he will do it - but he will find a way somehow - I'm sure.
Perhaps he will claim that the reason that couples aren't having great sex is because they are withholding the tithe.
All you need to do is give Jr. your bank routing number and you can quit buying those little blue pills.
Leaving Member - The main problem I have with Gateway is their belief in the Second Baptism. Most people that go to Gateway and don't get involved, don't know that they emphasize this. I have been several times. The last time I was there, there was a sign up to be a home group leader. There were 3 boxes to check. Are you a member, do you tithe, and have you received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yes I did, when I received Christ, but that is not enough for them. They believe in a subsequent filling of the spirit, which I believe is not biblical.
I understand you not wanting to go to a small church. Unfortunatly, as big as the Metroplex is, there are not a lot of options.
Thing is, I've YET to attend a church that DIDN'T preach on "first fruits"/tithing. Is that the only thing that Robert Morris teaches that would be "controversial"?
That should be enough.
Stop giving these hucksters slack.
IMHO
LeavingMember-
I too used to go to FC (10 years ago) and was fully immersed in them. I got out after I couldn't, in good conscience, teach 10% tithing to our hometeam (as a hometeam leader we were mandated by the church to teach it with the lessons they provided). I couldn't lie.
Please, stay away from Robert Morris...and stay away from any minister who is on TBN. Would you say "if lying was the only controversial thing" or "if materialism was the only controversial thing" or "if deceit were the only controversial thing"...?
I live in south DFW as well. I fell in love with a small Anglican church I found and have been going there for 6 years now. Good luck and God bless.
So what did happen at the bed stump? Ed and wife weren't even there? Was it postponed? How do you get the ocular problem? From skiing?
"Don't be overcome with the anti-tithing statements on this blog. The vast majority of pastors will preach and teach the Biblical doctrine of tithing."
That's because their salary comes from the tithe money. Its a conflict of interest that causes them to continue a tradition that is not practiced in the New Testament. The New Testament teaches free will giving. II Corinthians 9:7.
The tithe was not a part of the NT church for the first 700 years. The idea was borrowed from pagan land leasing principles in the 8th century. The going rate was 10%. They used the money to build grand cathedrals and used OT verses as proof texts.
By the way, the vast amount (Barna estimates 75% in most churches) of the tithe is spent on salaries and buildings today.
The OT taught 3 tithes. One for Levitical priests that weren't allowed to own anything. One was for the widows and orphans and another for mandatory religious feasts. So they paid around 25%.
But don't expect to hear the truth about tithing in a Baptist church.
LeavingMember: Stay home for six months. Study the Bible every day for yourself. When the period has ended go back and see what you have learned from the Holy Spirit. You can be free indeed. God is not confined to a building...He is in your heart. We are in the last days and you and everyone else thats looking for a real Bible study will find it ONLY on their own.
"By the way, the vast amount (Barna estimates 75% in most churches) of the tithe is spent on salaries and buildings today."
Maybe that's a substitute for how they did it in the NT. Didn't they "have all things in common" then? So since Christians don't have all things in common now, they pay the pastor in cash.
I never could get excited about giving money to the church and it being such a spiritual thing, if it went to paying for building maintenance and salaries.
But I think for many people, a beautiful building IS important to them. And they like what the pastor does for them, so they're happy to support those things.
The amusing part is how no matter how the church does things, they all claim to be "biblical." And I can't see how the modern church is anything remotely like the OT or the NT. Which for me is fine, but being biblical seems to be the great goal.
I totally agree with the advice to stay out of church for awhile. It's amazing how differently - and more clearly - you will see things.
"The" church is so much bigger than "a" church!
Hebrews 10:25
Annony at 9:39 might be correct but in our case, salaries (total packages) account for 47% and buildings for another 5.5%. 52.5% is a long ways from 75%. Just saying.
Anonymous said...
So what did happen at the bed stump? Ed and wife weren't even there? Was it postponed? How do you get the ocular problem? From skiing?
January 17, 2012 7:13 AM
They were there in the morning, sitting facing south with a white quilted cover on the bed. The sky was clear and the sun very bright, and they did not have sunglasses. So they were looking straight into brightness a good part of their stay. That can cause "snow blindness" and other eye problems. Sometimes but not always there is a full recovery.
Common Dawg. You must be OBSESSED with SEX. Can't we gone onto another subject or are you running out of fodder? Gee Whiz
Anon Hebrews 10:25
"Assembling yourselves" does not exclusively mean on Sunday morning at 9:30 in a building that calls itself a church.
I am "assembling" with fellow Christians several times throughout my week, on trips, for breakfast, lunch, study, conversation, and prayer.
Christians have been brainwashed to believe that "church" only happens in one particular setting. God is certainly not that limited.
Ten days without a new post?!?!
Quick! Someone preach about how failure to tithe will result in your hair falling out and your kids getting rabies!
:P
52.5% is a long ways from 75%.
Both seem rather excessive for a non-profit organization.
"Barna estimates 75% in most churches"
"Annony at 9:39 might be correct but in our case, salaries (total packages) account for 47% and buildings for another 5.5%. 52.5% is a long ways from 75%. Just saying."
Most does not equal all. Just saying.
Do you think that Christ intended for more than half of church giving to go toward buildings and salaries?
The first century church gave zero to buildings and salaries.
"The amusing part is how no matter how the church does things, they all claim to be "biblical."
That's because not everyone is equipped to interpret scripture correctly. In addition, there is a certain degree of freedom given in worship style in scripture.
"Assembling yourselves" does not exclusively mean on Sunday morning at 9:30 in a building that calls itself a church.
Who is making that claim?
It certainly wasn't me.
The Hebrews 10:25 verse was given in response to this quote:
"Stay home for six months. Study the Bible every day for yourself."
That advice contradicts scripture.
For all of you that seem to have such disdain for pastors and churches please stay away. We don't need the discord you would obviously sow in the fellowship.
For those that think you pay the pastor too much (and that kind of griping is nothing new), why don't you get rid of the pastor completely and just let laymen do everything.
Oh, but then noone would come when you are sick, injured, mourning, or just need pastoral care. I guarantee you that the laymen wouldn't be there for you in the middle of the night.
Oh, but then noone would come when you are sick, injured, mourning, or just need pastoral care.
So what you're saying is that the only reason pastors visit and minister to their fellow church members is because they're paid to do so? Actually quite a few are paid quite generously and still don't visit or minister to their members (except the "blue blood" members). They have "staff" for that.
Last year Steve Gaines publicly referred to a group of people (the same small pool of people who are appointed to committees year after year) as the "Bellevue blue bloods."
what are you actually telling me they sat on top of a church with snow and weather in the 20's? wow, what dedication!!!!!!
watchdog is taking a break because the pastors conference is coming up and he will be doing wall to wall coverage about things like maurilio's shoes and outfits and where they eat dinner and stuff...i've been reading this a few years and know whats up....i'm sure trey brunson will come up in the convo and stuff and also probably what debbie brunson wears and where ergun caner is and what secret meeting he speaks at...you'll see...paige patterson and darrell gilyard will probably also be included....and also the whiners in the lobby. Sometimes I go just to see if it gets reported right.
hey watchdog...the video is out on youtube ...why don't you run it on here...yikes there's so many comments i could make...
Annony 9:29,
But then again they didn't have A/C did they? They also didn't have cars, only utilities might have been some firewood. Are you suggesting we return to a strictly 2000 yr ago model of how to do church? Really?
Anonymous (January 18, 2012 10:05 AM) said: “Hebrews 10:25[.]”
Anonymous (January 19, 2012 9:38 AM) said:
“The Hebrews 10:25 verse was given in response to this quote:
‘Stay home for six months. Study the Bible every day for yourself.’
That advice contradicts scripture.”
Hebrews 10:25 [NIV 1984]
“Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing ...”
In Hebrews 10:25, the Greek word for “meeting together” [NIV 1984] is επισυναγωγην [NA27][Strong’s #1997]. επισυναγωγην [NA27][Strong’s #1997] means
“a complete collection; especially a Christian meeting (for worship):--assembling (gathering) together” [Strong’s Dictionary].
[Emphasis mine.]
In conjunction with this, one should note that επισυναγογε is used only two times in Biblical Scripture—once in Hebrews 10:25 as the term for the meetings of believers in Mashiyach Yehoshua and once in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 as the term describing the universal gathering of all believers in Mashiyach Yehoshua to Mashiyach Yehoshua himself right before the Day of the Lord.
In light of this, the usage of the word επισυναγωγην [NA27] in Hebrews 10:25 is significant. It means that when the Apostle Shaul speaks about meeting together and not abandoning doing so, he assumes that all believers in Mashiyach Yehoshua in a certain area are coming together to meet with each other.
This raises some important questions for churchgoers who use Hebrews 10:25 as a tool for pressuring individual Christians to go to a church. If Hebrews 10:25 admonishes believers in Mashiyach Yehoshua to not abandon the complete assembling together of believers in Mashiyach Yehoshua in a certain area, then are Christian churches who refuse to hold joint meetings with other Christian churches in their area not violating the Apostle Shaul’s said admonition in Hebrews 10:25? And by refusing to hold joint meetings with other Christian churches in their area, are Christian churches not dooming all Christians to involuntarily violate the Apostle Shaul’s said admonition in Hebrews 10:25, regardless of if they go to a church or not?
But even with this in mind, it does seem that the Apostle Shaul’s admonition in Hebrews 10:25 is, at the very least, a bittersweet memorial of the fact that the 1st century version of the local Assembly of Messiah was strikingly more unified than the 21st century version of the local Assembly of Messiah is now.
I think taking a break from church when church is what you need to heal FROM, is wonderful advice.
Studying alone for 6 months would probably yield a deeper discovery of the scriptures than 6 months spent in most churches.
And the writer didn't necessarily imply that staying at home meant forfeiting all other forms of Christian "assembly."
"For all of you that seem to have such disdain for pastors and churches please stay away. We don't need the discord you would obviously sow in the fellowship."
For all of you kool-aid drinkers that elevate the pastor to a dangerous level and don't expect any accountability from him, please stay away. We don't need another scandal that your man-worship always leads to.
"For those that think you pay the pastor too much (and that kind of griping is nothing new), why don't you get rid of the pastor completely and just let laymen do everything."
You mean like they did in the first century church?
"But then again they didn't have A/C did they? They also didn't have cars, only utilities might have been some firewood.
The first century church had expenses just like we do today.
The difference is that they used their resources to spread the gospel and not to pay for a huge building and professional speakers.
They met in private homes, there was no pastor, choir, church building, or tithe.
Those things came a couple of centuries later when the church started to emulate the pagan Roman culture around them.
"Are you suggesting we return to a strictly 2000 yr ago model of how to do church? Really?"
You tell me. Was the church stronger in the 1st century or today?
"For those that think you pay the pastor too much (and that kind of griping is nothing new), why don't you get rid of the pastor completely and just let laymen do everything."
To that I give a hearty amen. Imagine an educated, knowledgeable and committed laity actively involved the workings and decisions of the church and sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit rather than sitting back passively and letting other do the work we were all called to do.
"Are you suggesting we return to a strictly 2000 yr ago model of how to do church? Really?"
As opposed to the pagan temple, pagan orator and priest system we have now?
"I think taking a break from church when church is what you need to heal FROM, is wonderful advice."
Just not Biblical advice. I'm going to have to go with the Bible on this one. As a matter of fact, I always go with the Bible over "wonderful advice."
"Studying alone for 6 months would probably yield a deeper discovery of the scriptures than 6 months spent in most churches."
How did you come to this conclusion?
Have you visited most churches?
How do you define church?
"And the writer didn't necessarily imply that staying at home meant forfeiting all other forms of Christian "assembly."
How did you come to that conclusion?
The verse states:
"not neglecting to meet together as is the habit of some"
How would you have another form of Christian assembly in the first century without meeting together?
Does anyone want to take a brief second to stop over-reacting, and realize that God does talk about sex quite a lot in the Bible? And so for a church and pastor to finally push couples towards something that is completely God-created and one of the most intimate and close experiences you can have with your spouse that mirrors the closeness of being One with the Lord, that maybe, just maybe, it is a good thing? Why shouldn't sex be talked about in the church? Maybe Christian kids would be less willing to engage in premarital sex if they knew exactly the beauty of its purpose created for the confines of marriage? If more churches and also parents would address the issue of sex more openly, I think we would see a huge improvement in the number of abortions, the number of runaways, the number of abandonments, etc. Goodness, people. It's common sense. This website makes everyone paranoid about everything. The Bible tells us to "discern the spirits", yes I know this. Test the spirits. But don't look for a demon behind every rock and church because guess what, churches are full of imperfect people who bring their baggage and imperfect families together to meet with other imperfect people. Churches like Fellowship or Gateway are what I consider life-changing churches. They are growing for a reason--God is moving in them. People's lives are being changed and people are being saved, thousands upon thousands! What is more important than that? Making sure that liturgy stays in the church? Making sure that mega-church pastors don't preach about topics that are Biblical like Tithing and Sex? God moves in many ways, like it or not. If you don't like big churches, okay. Go to a small, comfortable church. There is nothing wrong with that. We are all part of one body, called to follow out the will of God while we're here on the Earth. Not to cause divisiveness!Paul warns against division in the church here in 1 Corinthians 1:10 " I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought." Just some food for thought.
oes anyone want to take a brief second to stop over-reacting, and realize that God does talk about sex quite a lot in the Bible? And so for a church and pastor to finally push couples towards something that is completely God-created and one of the most intimate and close experiences you can have with your spouse that mirrors the closeness of being One with the Lord, that maybe, just maybe, it is a good thing? Why shouldn't sex be talked about in the church? Maybe Christian kids would be less willing to engage in premarital sex if they knew exactly the beauty of its purpose created for the confines of marriage? If more churches and also parents would address the issue of sex more openly, I think we would see a huge improvement in the number of abortions, the number of runaways, the number of abandonments, etc. Goodness, people. It's common sense. This website makes everyone paranoid about everything. The Bible tells us to "discern the spirits", yes I know this. Test the spirits. But don't look for a demon behind every rock and church because guess what, churches are full of imperfect people who bring their baggage and imperfect families together to meet with other imperfect people. Churches like Fellowship or Gateway are what I consider life-changing churches. They are growing for a reason--God is moving in them. People's lives are being changed and people are being saved, thousands upon thousands! What is more important than that? Making sure that liturgy stays in the church? Making sure that mega-church pastors don't preach about topics that are Biblical like Tithing and Sex? God moves in many ways, like it or not. If you don't like big churches, okay. Go to a small, comfortable church. There is nothing wrong with that. We are all part of one body, called to follow out the will of God while we're here on the Earth. Not to cause divisiveness!Paul warns against division in the church here in 1 Corinthians 1:10 " I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought." Just some food for thought.
I would challenge these skinny-jean wearing, best-life-now™ turd-burglars to invite Brother Paul Washer to preach to their congregation for just one hour and five minutes on a Sunday morning.
He'd drive the goats out. Whatever remained, indeed if any remained, would surely thirst after righteousness.
Of course how the Youngs would make their precious mortgage payment that month is beyond my concern but perhaps in secret prayer to God and without making their needs known to man they would be shown by sovereign and Holy God that a Mediterranean-style house on this side of glory really isn't worth the trouble...
I've been reminded of John 21:22 so I will be quiet now.
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