Once Saved Always Saved and Predestination

More from the inerrant, infallible Word of God.

This time we will discuss the many clear scriptures that teach us about the doctrine of "once saved always saved", which means once you are saved, no matter what you do, you still go to heaven. (That really stinks as a doctrine doesn't it? Saved people can do whatever they want.) We will then compare that doctrine to the other view which is you can lose your salvation. (This also stinks doesn't it, since you can't ever be sure that you haven't done anything to cause you to lose the "eternal" salvation you thought you had received by grace.) I can tell you that the Catholic church, for example, teaches the latter, which if you think about it, keeps a lot of it's people feeling guilty and doing all they can to make sure they are in good standing with the requirements.  It would seem to me to be much easier to manipulate people who are constantly worrying about losing their eternal life.  But on the other hand, can a person "do whatever they want" and still go to heaven if they were saved earlier in their life?  So let's see what the Scripture says and determine once and for all what God's word teaches.

After that, we will delve into discussing the clear verses on the doctrine of predestination, (the "elect") which is a hot topic in Southern Baptist circles. (See Calvinism vs Arminianism)

Just kidding.  Even I don't have to tell Charlatans and Fundies that they could be wrong on their dogmatic views of these two scriptural "truths" that are contained within the pages of the god-breathed and profitable for teaching, Holy Bible.  They have each other to do that.

Continuing our study of the Word of God - Say What?

Deuteronomy 4:29: But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find Him if you seek him with all your heart and all your soul.

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth. There is none that seeketh after God.

















Proverbs 15:29 - The Lord is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.
James 5:16 - The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
1 Peter 3:2 - For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayers

Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.








Ephesions 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: It is the gift of God.

James 2:24 - Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith alone.

Any questions?

I don't need the Bible or religion to know that 2+2=4, or that rape and murder and stealing are wrong.

Another shocking thing I hear from fundamentalists is "If the bible isn't true, then I might as well sleep with ten partners, or go do whatever I want."  They don't realize what they are saying.  They are actually admitting that the only reason they are not raping another person, or having sex with anyone they can, is because they are trying to please the Creator of the Universe.  Or worse, they are restraining themselves only out of fear of eternal damnation. Do they really believe that without their faith, they would actually steal and take things that belong to other people? That they would kill another human being? That the only reason they don't do these things is because the Old Testament Ten Commandments says not to do it?

Excuse my all capitals here: I DON'T NEED ANY RELIGION OR HOLY BOOK TO KNOW THAT I CAN'T RAPE WOMEN, OR THAT I CAN'T KILL OTHER PEOPLE, OR THAT I CAN'T TAKE THINGS THAT BELONG TO SOMEONE ELSE.  

And, hear me on this: I DON'T WANT TO DO ANY OF THOSE HURTFUL THINGS ANYWAY!  But if I did, the criminal laws in this country would suffice in keeping me under control, not my beliefs about the ancient texts, or fear of some eternal punishment after I died.

Question: Would you really be a murderer, adulterer, thief, drug addict, and rapist if it were not for the Bible OR not for your faith in Christ?  I certainly hope not. I would hope your parents and schools and police and friends and civilized society would help you to realize that killing and raping is WRONG, not because the Bible says it is, but because it is WRONG.  And worse, many people kill because of the Bible, not in spite of it. (Crusades, Inquisition, Witch trials, Holy wars, etc.)

 

Let me give you another example. I believe that God created the earth and everything in it.  Why? Because I see the beauty and complexity of it all, the design of it all, and there is no other logical, reasonable explanation except some highly intelligent Creator was involved. Big time! Once again, excuse my all capitals here: BUT I DON'T BELIEVE IN A CREATOR JUST BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO IN GENESIS 1:1.  Put another way, I believe Genesis 1:1 is the most truthful, accurate and verifiable verse in the entire Bible. It is the one verse that is not open to debate, that is based on reality, science and evidence and doesn't depend on what part of the world I was raised in. But I don't believe it's true just because the Bible says its true. It's true because it's true.  Another example: If the Bible says 2 + 2 = 4, then I certainly believe that verse without any doubt or skepticism.  It's true because it's true. Try it out for yourselves. Go get two rocks. Then go get two more. Now count how many you have left. But I don't believe 2 + 2 = 4 just because the Bible might say that it is.  Get it?

So, killing, raping, murder, stealing, etc. is wrong just like 2 + 2 = 4. And I don't need the Bible, religion, or a holy man to tell me either.

More God-breathed scripture that is profitable

Continuing our closer study of the Bible...

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is god-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The following bible verses speak for themselves:

Exodus 35:2 – " For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death."

Ezekiel 23:11-21 - There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, ¹⁸ but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Deuteronomy 23:1 No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12  If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.

THIS ONE FOR KIM DAVIS AND MIKE HUCKABEE: 
Deuteronomy 17:12 Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge...must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29  If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Luke 14:26 – " If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple."

Isaiah 13:15-18 - Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.

Leviticus 25:44-46 - However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

Leviticus 21:17-24 - "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; no man with a crippled foot or hand, or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles.

And this one for bloggers?

Deuteronomy 13:6-11 - Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again." 

1 Samuel 18:25-27 - "Saul replied, "Say to David, 'The king wants no other price for the bride than a hundred Philistine foreskins, to take revenge on his enemies.' " So before the allotted time elapsed, David and his men went out and killed two hundred Philistines. He brought their foreskins and presented the full number to the king so that he might become the king's son-in-law. Then Saul gave him his daughter Michal in marriage."

Are you aware that these types of verses are in the Bible?  Regardless of how you might rationalize these types of verses, the point is that the Bible is full of such killings, rapes, genocide and infanticide, not to mention the ultimate damnation to hell of every man, woman, and child that does NOT "get saved."  It's not Good News and while the overall message of redemption in Christ Jesus is a hopeful one, it becomes Bad News when perverted and corrupted by religious men and fanatical followers. And most importantly, don't demand I read it, believe it all, and put it into practice!

Biblical "Traditional" Marriage

Today, we look to the Bible regarding what it says about "traditional" and "Biblical" marriage. Since the New Testament is largely silent on the issue, and what New Testament verses are included are open to various interpretations, I will leave those scriptures to the spin doctors and seminarians to apply and debate. (For example church leaders should be the husband of one wife; and Paul's reference in Corinthians to sleeping with a prostitue constitutes "the two becoming one flesh.") 

Biblical marriage requires the women to be a virgin, otherwise, if the man "dislikes her" she shall be killed.


Deuteronomy 22:13 - 21 ¹³ If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her ¹⁴ and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” ¹⁵ then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

There are numerous examples of polygamy in the Old Testament

Exodus 21:10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.

Deuteronomy 21:15 - 16 If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love.

Many important figures had more than one wife

Esau - Genesis 26:34  When Esau was forty years old, he married Judith daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and also Basemath daughter of Elon the Hittite.
Genesis 28:9 so he (Esau) went to Ishmael and married Mahalath, the sister of Nebaioth and daughter of Ishmael son of Abraham, in addition to the wives he already had.

Moses - Exodus 2:21  Moses agreed to stay with the man (a Midianite), who gave his daughter Zipporah to Moses in marriage. 
Numbers 12:1 - Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife,for he had married a Cushite.

Jacob - Genesis 29:15-28 Laban replied, “It is not our custom here to give the younger daughter in marriage before the older one. 27 Finish this daughter’s bridal week; then we will give you the younger one also, in return for another seven years of work.”28 And Jacob did so. He finished the week with Leah, and then Laban gave him his daughter Rachel to be his wife.

David - 1 Samuel 25:42-43   Abigail quickly got on a donkey and, attended by her five female servants, went with David’s messengers and became his wife. 43 David had also married Ahinoam of Jezreel, and they both were his wives.  
2 Samuel 5:13 After he left Hebron, David took more concubines and wives in Jerusalem, and more sons and daughters were born to him.

Solomon - 1 Kings 11:3 - He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray.

Men were obligated to marry their brother's widow

Deutoronomy 25:5 If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband’s brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her. 

Any and all divorced men who remarry are adulterers and are going to hell (except one excuse.)

Matthew 19:9 - I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
1 Corinthians 6:9 -  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind..."