"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Wednesday, March 9, 2011

Armor Bearers: Video Blogger Calls FBC Jax Watchdog Investigation "Church Mafia Tactics"

Kevin Oliver has published a video blog post commenting on the Watchdog investigation, and discusses what he calls "armor bearers" in churches. Armor bearers are retired or active law enforcement officers who serve in churches as security guards who will often perform special favors for the pastor or church leadership - because they have the power to do so, and because they believe they are doing God's will.

Kevin characterizes the FBC Jax Watchdog investigation and trespass warnings and deacon's resolution as "Church Mafia Tactics". In Kevin's video, he shows excerpts from a Jacksonville TV news report after the lawsuit was settled last October, shows a few shots of Mac Brunson in action, and he even posts a minute of FBC Jax (former) president of trustees A.C. Soud reading the deacon's resolution (that would be resolution number 2009-1, not to confuse it with the other deacon's resolutions) warning church members not to criticize, else they will be perceived as attacking the Lord's church. Kevin gets a good chuckle at that.

Check out Kevin's video blog post below.

I first came across Kevin's video blog a few months ago when I found his video analyzing Mac Brunson's October 2010 sermon in which Brunson argued that Christians should tithe since ancient cultures all tithed to their gods. Yep, the Mesopotamians tithed to Marduke the Moon God, Brunson said, so Christians in 2011 should do no less.

You can follow Kevin's YouTube video blog, entitled "Not Your Typical Negro" here, or you can follow him at Facebook here, as he puts an entry on Facebook linking to his YouTube channel when he has a new post.

An interesting comment about Kevin's "Armor Bearer" video was posted by the regular commenter "WishIHadKnown", who said:
"I have to disagree with the idea that these [FBC Jax] are Mafia tactics. It’s worse! The Mafia operates outside of the law. This is more in line with Gestapo or KGB because it involved the Police. You know the people who are suppose to 'serve and protect.' This was an especially egress abuse of power and an out an out violation of everyone civil rights."
Here is Kevin's video blog:

85 comments:

Thy Peace said...

My main desire in pointing this episode is to reflect on the careful planning and the number of people involved in making FBC Jax and Mac Brunson look as very small people ...

This was my first comment on this blog.

Why did I comment here?

I have heard all of FBC Jax Sermons from 2007 to 2008. Many times Mac Brunson was railing against bloggers. I truly was not interested in any religious blogs. I did not even know that there were any souther baptist blogs. But Mac kept complaining sermon after sermon that blogs were attacking him.

Finally, after many months of ragging, I finally succumbed to do a google search. I landed at Watchdog's blog. Initially I was very perturbed by the posts. But the watershed moment for me that opened my eyes were the Klouda posts. Then all the image building and religious nonsense from FBC Jax sermons ALL unraveled.

Sheri Klouda's Response to Patterson and Brunson

Mac a "Historian"? More Evidence of his Difficulty Telling the Truth

Wade Burleson > Sheri Klouda: Gender Discrimination, Federal Law and the Law of Christ in the SBC and SWBTS.

Mind you I heard about Mac's comment on Klouda legal matter. Then I knew, all this was a tip of the iceberg.

Then after I posted my first comment, people at FBC Jax quickly identified who I was and they proceeded to video tape a comment from Mac Brusnon and push this video comment to my computer while I was watching a live service of FBC Jax (It took them couple of weeks of trying to do this, but they were persistent).

Now think about all the people involved in doing this. Why were they so sensitive for a nobody who commented only once on this blog?

Why indeed? It speaks volumes about the "thin skin"'ed people at FBC Jax.

Anonymous said...

Armor Bearers....what a clever name! Perfect play on words.

Anonymous said...

Then after I posted my first comment, people at FBC Jax quickly identified who I was and they proceeded to video tape a comment from Mac Brusnon and push this video comment to my computer while I was watching a live service of FBC Jax (It took them couple of weeks of trying to do this, but they were persistent)."

Down right Orwellian. they really are thin skinned to use so much time and resources for something like that. The tithe dollars at work!

Slow to speak said...

This whole discussion reminds me of a great quote out of the movie "On the Waterfront" with Marlon Brando.

"I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let's face it."

People that hate preachers are Bums

Anonymous said...

People that hate preachers are Bums

March 9, 2011 4:58 PM

Jesus said that if we hate we are murderers. So, what do you define as "hate"? Mafia tactics by pastors?

Anonymous said...

I just went back read some of that stuff, Thy Peace, and realized I used to defend FBC Jax in 2008...(wow I changed my tune). I've been reading this blog off and on over 3 years. Did you see how many people said nobody would retaliate if you asked questions non anonymously? Were they wrong or what?

And when i say someone from that church banned my email..I can tell you it appeared someone from that church banned my email after I wrote and asked a question about the sherri klouda thing. And IF someone actually DID ban my email...congratulations...I've barely been back to church anywhere since so....
Thanks a whole heck of a lot. Is a QUESTION really that threatening? Did somebody ban my email or was it a fluke in the email system? I'll never know, I just know I was going to both church and counseling at the FBC Jax before my email was apparantly banned, but after that, I didn't go back to either one.
I just can't believe I used to defend FBC Jax so much, till I found out for myself that questions were not allowed.

Oh well, boo hoo right? That was such a disappointing time. I thought I had found a church for the first time in years, and actually joined. Only to leave rather rapidly. Part of all that was based on what I read on here believe it or not. I just see I used to adamantly support FBC Jax and Im kind of shocked to read that I did. Anybody can see the Sherri Klouda situation was wrong wrong wrong. What was I thinking? Many many things on this blog I don't agree with, but you were right about Sheri Klouda and some of the rest of it. Including staying anonymous if you want to go to the big Baptist church. Sadly, I no longer like to go anywhere. I have to force myself to go to church, just cause I know the types waiting there. Its got nothing to do with God or anything.

Anonymous said...

"People that hate preachers are Bums"

Preachers have Tiger Blood.
They are not to be questioned.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of tithing you ask someone where that is in the Bible and they want to use Old Testament teaching which of course was under the law. Then pressed they will say "well Jesus said" we should tithe" Now i am wondering why stop with a tenth. If we use the logic some use That the more we give the more we will get back, why not raise this to 20 or 30 percent. also does a gift have to be given through the church why not give to a specific need? Oh, i forgot if we do this we may not be able to give the pastor a raise or afford the elaborate waterfall or illuminated cross we think we must have. Is my cyncism showing, I suppose so but I get so discouraged with my fellow ministers who sem to want to be the "boss" and not the servant.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Thy Peace - my mind can't conceive what you're talking about. How on earth could they feed a video to you personally, WHY would they do that? What was the message to you? Who spoke the message?

turnureyesonJC said...

We don't care.

We don't care if they plagarize sermons.

We don't care if they keep secrets and don't tell us their salaries.

We don't care if they condemn their critics.

We don't care if they spike their hair and wear blue jeans during their "talk".

WE DON'T CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARE PEOPLE BEING SAVED?

THAT'S ALL WE CARE ABOUT!

Anonymous said...

FBC Jax watchdog...do you feel like the "armorbearers" at fbc jax were watching you? Like outside of church?

I had never heard this term before today. Does anyone else have experience of being in the church and having some group or person start stalking them and making up stories about them and spying on them and the like? Any of ya'll ever get any weird mail or phone calls?

Did you ever feel like you were being followed FBC Watchdog? I mean, I'm really starting to wonder about this now. I didn't know there was an actual position or positions being filled by ex cops or current cops to spy on people in the church. I guess you would have been about target no. 1 watchdog.

Im really curious about this...thats kind of an interesting video. What is this turning in to...nazi germany?

Anonymous said...

Gestapo strong.

Thy Peace said...

Oh, it did happen. Mac was perturbed to put it mildly in the video comment.

Let me explain how it happened technically.

This time period when it happened was when FBC Jax was transitioning from old video network to the current video feed network. My incident happened with the old network.

For a period of two weeks after this comment was posted, my video connections to the live feed for fbc jax service was frequently being disconnected. My video player which was Real Player would attempt connections automatically and some times it would give up. I distinctly remember one service I could not watch because of the disconnections and I gave up watching for that day.

And this happened again at the next live feed event. My memory is this stretched for more than one week.

Then one day finally while watching the live service, it was disconnected and while my player reconnected, Lo and Behold we have Mac reading My Comment from a piece of paper back to me.

I was shocked. To be honest, I was in a daze. I thought What the h*** is happening? I did listen to the whole video comment. Then another disconnection and a reconnection back to the live feed.

Now what was Mac reading from the paper back to me?

I understand sometimes, Dr. Brunson gets carried away with his sermons (not fully reasearched examples or misquoting or denouncing sins), but on the whole he is positive and helpful.
...
and I can not compare Dr. Brunson with Dr. Vines or prior pastors


This was what Mac read back to me. He made grimacing face and snarky comments about my comment that I could not compare him to Vines. He made fun of my words "reasearched examples or misquoting".

He thankfully did not call me names.

He by his body actions was saying what the h*** I was doing commenting and saying all this stuff about him.

To be honest, I was in state of shock for a long time after this incident. Slowly, my mind asserted that yes, this incident did happen.

Now why did I comment those words Mac read back to me? It was all due Klouda lawsuit comments he made in one sermon. I was convinced you [Watchdog] were right in this matter and Wade was right. There are other examples about his misquotes. I did indeed research them while I was listening to his sermons.

Please note that I was recording ALL of FBC Jax live video feeds for over one year. I could not record the video feeds during this incident due to the recorder would bail out when ever there was disconnection of the video feed. And the recorder would not reconnect automatically as the player.

I personally think Mac was pretty upset mainly because, five months before this I has sent an email to FBC Jax that how much I loved their service and how I would record their services for my later listening. I have listened most of the services many, many times from my recordings. I also think Mac was perturbed because of my comment Mr. Watchdog, I may not agree with you lot of times, but I have to admire your courage and persistence. I think this shook him up for some reason.

In some ways I was very naive with my first comment that they fingered (Unix/Linux term) me very quickly.

In the end I do not regret what I did.

I actually thank sincerely FBC Jax, Mac Brunson and his coterie of supporters who helped him in this affair.

By each person's actions once own heart is revealed.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of tithing which is strictly old testament. Paul who was sent to preach the mystery to us Gentiles said that he had robbed other churches in order to serve the church of Corinth. So we have a clear signal from the apostle Paul that wages are not to be taken by any pastor in a New Testament church. I know this will be unacceptable to pastors however as someone else previously stated: Sunday School teachers, choir members, whatever work 40-50 hours a week earning wages and provide a free gift of their talent to the Lord. Maybe its time for all pastors to get a real job like the rest of us and when we need a message thats worth listening to we can allow them 15 minutes of time since there are a lot of SS teachers that know more about the Bible than a lot of these bigshots who quote a verse and then waste about 25 minutes telling stories that are really quite boring.

Thy Peace said...

I would like to add the following to my last comment ...

The old network was Number Nine Network. The new network is 316 Network.

Mac and his coterie knew who I was. From the earlier email(s) I sent to them, they knew my name, house address and my email address. I have received two emails from them during March and June period.

Why did they choose not to email me? or write a letter in protesting their concerns by mail at least?

I think they went for this route mainly for it's shock value. Oh, it did work. It did shock me.

But the intended effect was the opposite of what they intended.

I distinctly remember one Mac sermon on Spurgeon's furnace where Mac wanted 120 men and 120 women to pray during each service. In fact in the beginning of this service, they did read my name to the church.

I believe instead of Spurgeon's furnace, Mac had a some other furnace going with X number of people in the basement, parsing this blog and comments, attempting to identify the commenters.

I was a very easy pick for identification.

Anonymous said...

All I have to say is they are "searching for the complainers: . . .this church they claim to be of love & compassion is full of licensed gun carrying men (in the name of security).

Good that some of us don't unleash our tongues on what we have been told by deacons, staff & others in leadership who talk and instead just moved on, taking our tithes with us.

This is a church divided where problems are growing. It is no longer a "super church" in the community.

Anonymous said...

Thy Peace,

OK, now I KNOW you're off your rocker, I thought it before, but now it is confirmed.

Your "technical" explanation of Mac streaming into your home to deliver you a personal message is laughable. There is no poltergeist in your Real Player, but there might have been some imbibing in your evening.

Every comment you have ever posted has just lost all of its credibility.

I am tempted to use the word "sociopath" but that might hurt your feelings - it sure made a crybaby out of Watchdog.

You've allowed Brunson's words to affect you - - but now you are believing that Brunson plotted against your laptop also. Wow! I am so glad you posted that story, now your cognitive skills are on display for all the world.

Andrew

Thy Peace said...

It is very easy to confirm this incident. All you have to do is ask any of the people involved whether this incident took place. Now remember that Christians believe in The Truth, but if they neglect the truths, then what does it say about them ...

Andrew you are free to believe whatever you wish. Feel free to call me a sociopath too. I am not hurt by your comments.

Anonymous said...

do any of you people actually know what the word sociopath means? you use it out of context so many times that I can't really believe you know what it means. It means you have no feelings towards anything. Kind of like people who write to someone and tell them they are "off their rocker", without having any evidence of that but just internet postings. And people who take great joy in telling someone that. Thats a sociopath.

Thy Peace, I honestly don't believe that happened to you. I think YOU think it did however. Maybe you dreamed it Thy peace. Honestly, sometimes I have dreams that are so real that they seem to have happened.

Well, one thing I've learned in churches...you never really know what happened to someone else until you walked in their shoes.

Hey I wouldn't have thought they'd get so upset over an internet blog as to kick someone out of a church and call them a sociopath either.

Thy Peace said...

Thy Peace, I honestly don't believe that happened to you. I think YOU think it did however. Maybe you dreamed it Thy peace. Honestly, sometimes I have dreams that are so real that they seem to have happened.

Anon, thanks for your comment. I know what a video mugging is and what it feels to experience it. I stand by my comments.

Anonymous said...

This obsession with Mac Brunson, and FBC Jax is not helping your case Tom.

Anonymous said...

You are no longer a member of that church. So why should it matter to you what someone else thinks of the way you and FBCJax departed? It shouldn't.

Anonymous said...

So move on. Take hold again of your right to religious freedom and grasp it and don't let it go. Enjoy it and enjoy the new awakening of spiritual growth in your life that you can experience at your new church.

Anonymous said...

And don't let anyone ever try to deprive you of that right again. FBC Jax is in your past. Leave it there. Forget about it. Forget Mac Brunson. He has no bearance on you no more. Drink the Tiger Blood, not this KoolAid mush. It has poisoned you to a pulp. Get it out of your system!
And when you do, embrace the new Tom, a refreshed Tom; a Tom who sees himself above FBCJax, a Tom who blogs and cares no more for that church or its people. You're better than them Tom! The eye of the Tiger is upon you. So make haste. Make an impression that we'd all like to see. One that is magical, supernatural to the naked eye. Feel the freedom Tom. Hug it and take advantage of it. Never back down to those sbc trolls again. Stand firm and make an impression that says, I'm Tom Rich. I read my bible, pray to Jesus Christ, and blog about the better side of Christianity. I am done with the trolls at FBC Jax. No more!

Anonymous said...

"You are no longer a member of that church. So why should it matter to you what someone else thinks of the way you and FBCJax departed? It shouldn't."

March 10, 2011 10:31 AM

Well it does matter to some of us members as what happen to him can happen to any of us who are still members.

Easy to say "move on" when it wasn't yourself. If I was called a sociopath on the front page of the newspaper believe me, I wouldn't be as nice as what the Watchdog has been - only when I was given a public apology for defamation of character would perhaps be a start, but that's not going to happen.

This isn't going away folks, so stop your whining!

Thy Peace said...

My sincere apologies to Kevin Oliver and this post. I did not intend to hijack this post. I felt my experience needed to be told as it added to this particular post.

Folks, I know all this is hard to believe. All I know is it happened. And that many people were involved in this production. They may choose not to speak about it. But I wanted to.

At this point I am not angry or upset about it. I wanted readers to learn about this incident.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:45am,

The DSM-IV references sociopath symptons as:

•Grandiose Sense of Self
•Pathological Lying
•Lack of Realistic Life
•Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them.

So I stand by my word on that.

Thy Peace, your technological "mugging" did not happen. Your alliance with Tom furthers his weak complaints and his crybaby status.

Andrew

Anonymous said...

How come you left so much of the definition out andrew? Callousness, lack of empathy....Oh thats right, thats YOUR postings..We don't want to see our own behavior defined right..just others...

Thy Peace said...

Thy Peace, your technological "mugging" did not happen.

You are free to disagree. Since I have no evidence, it is hard to prove by me. But if others are enterprising and have contacts, then can ferret the truth.

NYTN said...

I am really shocked at how cavalier people are about this whole thing. This is very, VERY serious.

We're talking about a pastor who has at his disposal the equivalence of a private police force, which he uses to gather intelligence and silence opposition.

We're also talking about a deacon/trustee board that has the temerity to pass totalitarian "resolutions" designed to suppress criticism; to which they have they audacity and unmitigated gall to attach Christ's name to.

Ladies and gentlemen, these people are DANGEROUS. Do you not understand that?

Simply leaving the church and "the past behind" DOES NOT SOLVE THIS PROBLEM. In addition to much prayer and fasting, these people need to be confronted and even REMOVED from these positions -- Mac Brunson in particular. I don't understand how such a harsh, calculating, and unlearned man ascended to a position of such influence. It seems that someone should have pulled his card a long time ago.

But of course, none of this will happen until the people sitting in those pews wake up en masse.

wade burleson said...

Thy Peace,

Contrary to Andrew and a handful of others in this stream, I believe you without reservation or qualification.

Though we have never met, I have come to admire your technological savvy and desire for truth, both Scriptural and cultural.

I wish I could say I was suprised or shocked by what happened to you. The one word I would use is "expected." However, I believe things are changing.

The old tactics of bullying the dissenters or mocking the criticizers are no longer working. Laypeople like you and Watchdog are far too savvy, way too adept at questioning alleged "spiritual authority," and too dogged in your determination for truth to win out.

Keep the faith, Thy Peace.

Wade Burleson

Anonymous said...

The approach FBC Jax took to remove Tom Rich from their fellowship was not hard enough.

WishIhadknown said...

Boy, can you feel the love from the anon 2:37 PM. What a great testimony.

Anonymous said...

you said . . .The approach FBC Jax took to remove Tom Rich from their fellowship was not hard enough.

March 10, 2011 2:37 PM

I say that had they known where their action was going to lead them in a legal battle they would have never considered going down this road that has no ending. Even though Tom Rich is no longer a member @ FBCJ, they still have a lot of watchdogs amongst them.

Slow to speak said...

"Ladies and gentlemen, these people are DANGEROUS. Do you not understand that?"

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

No my Brother, what is dangerous are people that will not submit to authority!

A REBEL IS DANGEROUS!

My Bible tells me that I am under the authority of my Church Leaders.

If you don't like it, YOU become a Pastor!

IF YOU don't want to be a Pastor....SHUT YOUR BIG MOUTH!!

WHAT IS DANGEROUS IS MESSING WITH GOD'S ANOINTED........

IF YOU DON'T LIKE FBC JAX...
HEY BUD...
LET THE DOOR HIT YA WHERE THE GOOD LORD SPLIT YA

Anonymous said...

FBC Jax should not have given Mr. Rich a chance to come in and work things out. Mr. Rich should have been removed from the fellowship as soon as his identity was discovered, because it was clear Mr. Rich was not interested in any kind of diplomacy from the beginning.

Anonymous said...

Wade,

You believe that Mac and his Ocean 11 staff disconnected Thy Peace's Real Player and then inserted a specific message just to Thy Peace from Mac? You say you trust Thy Peace's "technological savvy"? Wow, the dust bowl of Oklahoma must be stirring up some stupidity dust.

NYTN, Mac has a "private police force"? Amazing! Please tell me who these guys are - - CIA? Ninjas? Secret Service? Barney and Andy? You've lost your mind NYTN! You throw out "facts" but you are factless!

Andrew

Anonymous said...

The problem with this blog is that it attracts the spiritually weak and mentally disabled. We have sociopaths and hypocrites following each other in a blind manner, thinking their ideas and experiences can somehow come together and transform the sbc and christian church in todays america. The fact of the matter is this blog produces nothing, except rotten fruit and a bad taste in the mouths of those watching and listening from the outside. This blog and the people who post on it, such as thypeace, wadeburleson, wishihadknown, louis, tom rich, and others represent everything that is wrong with the church in america.
God save us.

Anonymous said...

"You've allowed Brunson's words to affect you - - but now you are believing that Brunson plotted against your laptop also."

How do you know Thy Peace has a laptop, Andrew? Inside information perhaps?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
WishIhadknown said...

Since when do Baptist practice Ex Communication?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Please take your anonymous slander and whining to another blog site. You can't handle the influence this site has in exposing the antics of many pastors, so you have learned well from your pastors and resort to slandering.

Get some Kleenex, dry your eyes, and stop coming to this blog.

Anonymous said...

MELTDOWN ALERT! Looks like somebody stepped on slow to think's last nerve!

Anonymous said...

I think there's a bridge somewhere that's missing its troll.

WishIhadknown said...

It sure is nice to know we have such an outstanding group of mental health professionals visiting this site who are able to make such expert diagnoses just from the posts. Most providers require extensive testing and analysis in order to determine the correct and degree of psychosis. On the other hand, maybe you are the ones in need of psychological evaluation to help you with your dependency on the teaching and approval of a single individual.

WishIhadknown said...

Slow's village called, they missed him and wanted to make sure he was alright but they don't want him back.

Free and Fair Speech said...

"Please take your anonymous slander and whining to another blog site. You can't handle the influence this site has in exposing the antics of many pastors, so you have learned well from your pastors and resort to slandering.

Get some Kleenex, dry your eyes, and stop coming to this blog."


Double standard much? Mr. Rich, we must practice what we preach. You are a strong advocate for anonymous speech rights, especially when such rights are exercised with a strong tone of criticism. After all, that's what your blog was for a couple of years. How can you can forbid someone from practicing just that? In all fairness, you should not forbid those who strongly disagree with you from commenting on your blog anonymously. Just let them make fools of themselves and allow it to give you a good chuckle.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Thanks for the lecture.

I give a tremendous amount of leeway on this blog. Criticize me all you want. I've been called a sociopath already here, and let it stand.

But please don't slander and accuse of mental illness others on this site who post here. I know TP, and I know Wade, and others...they are not mentally ill.

So you have all the free speech you would like to accuse people of being mentally and sociopaths, just do it on another blog, not this one.

And really, for YOUR mental health, stop reading this blog.

Debbie Kaufman said...

These comments show the reality of just how corrupt some SBC churches are. It also shows that Tom is bothering them greatly with facts.

Andrew: Yes, I believe this happened to Thy Peace. I know firsthand the power and the lengths some in the SBC will go to shut up those who find out true facts that show corruption in the church. Oxymoron isn't it? Corruption and in the church? It's also not of God.

wade burleson said...

Andrew,

Live streaming is not complicated. It requires a little black box provided by 316 Network and a hook up to your video feed. We used 316 Network for over a year until we switched to a service with a larger viewing screen. The host church is able to view IP addresses of people watching, along with their email addresses, and know who is watching live. You have the power to remove any individual from watching the broadcast and anyone with any tech savvy at all can redirect an IP address from one live box to another which has been set up for a separate video feed.

I have a tendency to believe people who maintain a calm demeanor and are consistent in their comments (like Thy Peace) more than I do people who resort to name calling (i.e. psychopath, stupidity dust, etc...).

In other words, Andrew, you create disbelievability on your part by your name calling. If you wish to be taken seriously, I might suggest a more civil approach.

The Real Swag said...

If anyone resembles the mafia, it's the regulars who post here. The mafia operates in such a way that victims don't know who the perpetrators are. And that's just what you people do with your character assasination, so called "ministry". You hide behind your computers and purposely desecrate pastors and churches. Shame on you "christians".

Debbie Kaufman said...

And Thy Peace has never lied. Ever. For those who are denying these things happen. They happen and will as long as people who should know better, who supposedly have been changed by the power of Christ, say nothing or make silly comments as some have here.

Debbie Kaufman said...

Real Swag: Haven't you heard? Bullying doesn't work anymore.I'm going to tell you straight up. None of you know what you are talking about.

Anonymous said...

Debbie,

You think Mac wired himself into Thy Peace's house through a Real Player in his computer and read him a comment from a blog. Wow, really! Mac is brillant then! You all have been saying that Mac is incompetent and a mean-spirited boor. But now he has the capibility of CIAesque computer specialist.

Where is the SBC headquarters for such espionage and computer analysis? Is Mac going to be whisked away to a secret location in the course of a secret deacon coup-d'etat?

I think you guys (Thy Peace, Watchdog, and now Debbie) have seen too many Bourne movies.

Andrew

WishIhadknown said...

Andrew
I agree that I doubt Mac made a special message to Thy Peace but I never would have believed a church would issue trespass orders, pass a resolution condemning a member, call a member a sociopath to a reporter, etc. As far as actually creating a message for a single individual that does not take any sophisticated computer skill, almost any teenager probably could do it. All that’s needed is Thy Peace’s IP address and wait for him to access your URL.
So who knows?

Anonymous said...

WishIhadKnown,

Issuing a trespass order and passing a resolution is one thing...not a desired thing, but not abnormal for an organization to do.
But to pipe yourself in to Thy Peace's Real Player and make a specific message, and now Thy Peace says he has "no evidence." I just think he is a loose nut in the peanut gallery of the internet highway.

Wade,

If (huge IF) Mac used the 316 Network to retrieve an IP address and then make a "special" streaming video just for Thy Peace, then we should have some evidence. And we should have an award for Mac's crack team that spent a lot of time in research and effort to make a special video just for Thy Peace.
And sorry if I hurt your feelings by saying there's stupid dust in Oklahoma. I hope that didn't ruin your week.

Andrew

WishIhadknown said...

Andrew.
1. FBCJ is not just an organization. It is a church, you know, “where everyone is welcome no matter what your sin.” Unless Tom posed a physical threat such actions are unheard of by any “organization.”
2. A pimple faced teenager would hardly constitute a crack team. Again, I am not saying it happened, but it would not take a “crack team.” And if you had any doubt it could be done, Wade Burleson was kind enough to give us instructions.
3. The lack of evidence is understandable because a streaming video is not captured in the same way a downloaded video is. E.g. ever try to capture a YouTube video?
4. Remember Wade’s crack team spent a lot of time and effort and taxpayer money to identify Tom and an unnamed blogger from Memphis. How do you make sense of that?

Anonymous said...

If anyone resembles the mafia, it's the regulars who post here. The mafia operates in such a way that victims don't know who the perpetrators are. And that's just what you people do with your character assassination, so called "ministry". You hide behind your computers and purposely desecrate pastors and churches. Shame on you "Christians".

How much dose Pastor Brunson gets paid? Perhaps if it is the efforts of a church to save the unsaved what difference dose it matter if it is public. Perhaps you don’t know who you serving. You call your self Christians but act like a devils liar. You are nothing but serpent seed.

Anonymous said...

WishIHadKnown,

Good, a list maker.

1. Yes, FBCJ is an organization that probably has many criminal trespassing directives out. Most churches do. (Don't over-react, think about it!)
2. Wow, pimple-faced. That's a shot.
3. No evidence of other watchers, of the producers of the video, of any video EVER made by ANY church like this...yes there are IP addresses but no there are not emails! Wade is not being truthful on that!
4. Wade has a crack team? And he broke Tom's identity? WHAT?

Andrew

WishIhadknown said...

Andrew
Do you have any evidence of trespass orders being issued by any church that does not involve a physical threat?
I was a pimple face kid at one time, you gotta problem with that?
I assuming you meant to say that IP address are not on emails. On that one you are completely wrong. Your IP address follows you whenever you post or send anything on the internet.
Wade does have a crack team which is the subject of this thread. Have you not followed the other subjects on the blog? A police officer used his position to obtain Tom and a poster from Memphis’ identity. Think about it what possible reason would he have needed the Memphis person’s identification? Did Tom or the person from Memphis pose a threat which is the only reason there should have been an investigation? The Policeman had to have a court order for the release of these identities, that’s a lot of work. The policeman then gave this information to FBCJ.
If this did not involve FBCJ and Mac would you not be concerned about the abuse of police powers?

Anonymous said...

WishIHadKnown,

Wade Burleson has a crack team who exposed a blogger? What? I see why your user name is "WishIHadKnown" - it doesn't say much for your present capacity.

And I said it correctly, IP addresses do not have emails attached. Emails have IPs, but not the other way around. You can't ping an IP and end up with an email. So Wade is incorrect in saying you can get an email from an IP and then make a streaming video for just Thy Peace and send it to him based on an IP. I hate to throw too many acronyms out there, but I do know the IT of IP!

Yes, a criminal trespass order can be placed against any person for any perceived reason by any PRIVATE organization. A physical threat does not need to be proven, only perceived by the agent(s) of the organization.

Andrew

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

It is nice to see someone who puts it all together when it comes to crybaby pastors. Read Baptist Planet's recent article about Thom Rainer's articles on pastoral criticism, and the criticism of Rainer's criticism by yours truly, Wartburg Watch, and Pastor William Thornton.

WishIhadknown said...

So does insulting me do something for you?
Just like you, I asked for evidence not perception, where is your evidence?
Police have to have more than perception has something to with reasonable searchs maybe you read about it somewhere like in the Constitution!

WishIhadknown said...

Oh and denial is not just a river in Egypt.

wade burleson said...

Andrew,

You don't "PING" and IP address and an email comes up. That was never implied.

To sign into 316 Networks you must sign in with your EMAIL ADDRESS. The email address is tied, of course, to your IP.

That's how you get both the IP address and the email. Of course, someone could lie about their email address, but the host church sees email and IP tied together at sign in. You wrote: "Wade is not being truthful on that!"

??

It seems to me that you are simply confused and lack understanding of how things operate.

turnureyesonJC said...

Billy Graham talked bad about Jews with Richard Nixon.

Franklin Graham is making over a million dollars a year.

The founders of the Southern Baptist Convention were racists

Barbara Bush and Laura Bush are BOTH pro-abortion.

My Point....

Mac is nowhere near as bad as these people!

Yes, He gave Dog the boot and told him get out and stay out..

And your problem with that is...........

He is not knocking Jews with the President.

He is not making 2 fulltime salaries like Franklin.

He is not a racist and pro abortion.

He kicked a man and his family out of the Church......BIG DEAL!!!!

WishIhadknown said...

Hi, Turn, how was your day?

Gary said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
WishIhadknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
WishIhadknown said...

Sorry, Wade, I of course meant to say Mac in my previous post. Godd to see you post again, we miss you.
Has anyone heard from Lynn or Lydia lately?

Debbie Kaufman said...

Tell me TurnureyesonJC Tiffany Croft's blog was looked into by Hinson(the same man that found the identity of Watchdog) and shut her blog down. Darrell Gilyard preached regularly at FBCJax in the 90's. Why do you think that was? In fact this was at the same time they were finding out who Watchdog was. Not that bad? Not powerful?

Debbie Kaufman said...

By the way we will never know the reasons Hinson gave to obtain the subpoenas presented to Google because they were destroyed after 90 days per the policy at the time. But it's no big deal. Mac isn't that bad. Mac isn't that powerful. :)

NYTN said...

Anonymous said:

NYTN, Mac has a "private police force"? Amazing! Please tell me who these guys are - - CIA? Ninjas? Secret Service? Barney and Andy? You've lost your mind NYTN! You throw out "facts" but you are factless!

The fact of the matter is this blog produces nothing, except rotten fruit and a bad taste in the mouths of those watching and listening from the outside

My response is as follows:

1) You are not God, Anonymous. So you are not in a position to make definitive judgments about what "fruit" or "taste" is being produced. In fact, it is precisely this kind of ARROGANCE that apparently rules the day at FBC Jax. That is to say, Mac Brunson and the deacon/trustee board are the ones to determine what ideas are worthy of consideration. It is "church leadership" that determines what is or is not permissible to say, do or think in relation to "The Lord's church". Amazing how you sound JUST like them.

2) As for who Mac's "private police force" is, let me say this, Anonymous:

● The reason you don't know what you're talking about is because you have your eyes closed. It is STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE for these big powerful pastors like Mac Brunson to have cops and ex-cops around them providing their security. I've seen them operate dozens of times, and I've personally been a victim of this kind of tactic used by a former pastor.

● Now you can play crazy if you want to. But it is CLEAR that Mac Brunson ordered Detective Robert Hinson to discover FBCJAXWatchdog's identity. It is so clear that -- as we say in the Black community -- even Stevie Wonder can see that. And if that's not enough, a PUBLIC deacon/trustee board meeting was held to enforce a "resolution" specifically targeting FBCJAXWatchdog. So Hinson and the deacons are indeed Brunson's "private police force", in so far as they act under his direct and indirect influence to undermine dissenters and silence opposition. In the words of Paul to Emperor Festus, "I am persuaded that none of these things escape [your] notice; for [all] this has not been done in a corner."

Signed,


NYTN

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Debbie - Hinson never shut anyone's blog down. His testimony in his deposition was that he was investigating my blog, and since he didn't know who I was at the time, he subpoened two other blogs that were hyperlinked on my blog. There were many blogs hyperlinked on my blog (including Wade's), but for some reason he zeroed in on those two - Bellevue and Tiffany.

But he also testified under oath that he subponeed Bellevue's blog because it looked similar in format (i.e. used the same Blogger template as mine). He also testifed that once he realized that it was a template and not necessarily associated with mine, then he realized he didn't need the subpoena but it was too late it had already been sent. Regarding Tiffany's, he says once he found out Tiffany's dad was Larry Thigpen who is a reserve police office and member at FBC Jax, he realized he didn't need that subpoena either, but he had already sent out the subpoena.

So while he didn't shut anyone's blog down, in my view his explanation was embarrassing. He sent subpoenas on the three blogs that were most critical of the SBC powerstructure at the time (Brunson, Gaines, Vines, Patterson), and he didn't even bother to see that a subpoenas was NOT required on Tiffany's as she blogged under her name! It was a witch hunt in my view, plain and simple.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

NYTN - to support your theory, here is some interesting information that is backed up by the detective's and the church administrator's testimony under oath in this case:

When the detective got my identity, he went straight to the church administrator. Keep in mind, the detective is so intertwined in the workings of the church, as he is both a tithing member, a deacon, a discipline committee member, AND an employee...you can't get more intertwined in the workings of a church than he was...so he gives my name to the church administrator, and the church administrator told him to shut down the investigation, and so he did. He testified that he STILL had concerns about me being a threat of some kind, but that since FBC Jax said shut down the investigation he did. He didn't interview anybody, he just got my name, took it to the church administator who confimed I was not a threat, and then he shut down the investigation and destroyed the documentation to protect my privacy he says.

Very interesting stuff.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Tiffany Croft's blog was looked into by Hinson(the same man that found the identity of Watchdog) and shut her blog down. Darrell Gilyard preached regularly at FBCJax in the 90's. Why do you think that was? In fact this was at the same time they were finding out who Watchdog was.

Say what? Tiffany's blog wasn't shut down by anyone. It's still up. She posted only once last year and so far only once this year, but it wasn't shut down. Since her blog was devoted to "stopping Darrell Gilyard" and since DG is now cooling his heels in prison, there's not much left to write now.

They were finding out who WD is back in the '90s? Since this blog didn't begin until 2007, I don't see how that's possible.

Tom's account of what Hinson stated is correct. It only made Hinson look like a bigger fool than he did before.

Debbie Kaufman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Debbie Kaufman said...

BBC: I read Tom's account and I admit some of my facts were skewed.It has been awhile but I followed it closely at the time. The point was the subpoenas. And the poor explanation for those subpoenas. Also if I remember correctly, Tiffany's blog was ordered closed for a time. Then it was rescinded. I also followed Tiffany quite close at the time.

BTW, I am not your enemy so cool your heels.


As for your remark concerning the 90's, read my comment again. I said clearly Darrell Gilyard preached at FBCJax in the 90's. If you are going to correct me, go by what I actually said. Tom and I have been friends for awhile now, so put your gun down before I have to take it from you. And believe me I can. :)

New BBC Open Forum said...

Debbie,

I was merely responding to your words. Your account of the facts was off, and I was trying to set the record straight. You said a long time ago that you weren't going to address me again, so I suggest you refresh your memory. I'm not your enemy either, but I don't respond kindly to threats, especially empty ones. Chill, please. Your 12:25 comment was accurate.

Debbie Kaufman said...

BBC: No, I don't remember saying that, could be because I'm not one to hold grudges....and I believed in what you were doing on your blog at the time.

Thy Peace said...

Wade, thanks for your comments. They brought clarity to me so that now I know exactly what happened and how it happened.

Folks, this incident happened in the end of August 2008. This incident involved people from Mac on down. All I will say is their flesh was more evident in their actions than of the Spirit.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

TP - one of the depos my wife and I sat through made it very clear the level of hatred that FBC Jax had toward me, and a certain person still has for me. So as fantastic as your story sounds, I do believe you.

And if anyone wonders what lengths that the followers of a powerful mega church pastor will go to in defending their pastor from critics, just go read the pajamapages blog site that is linked in my favorites. There is a lawsuit right now in the middle of discovery concerning the actions of that pastor and his followers.

Anonymous said...

What did I miss? A Watchdog investigation? When was that conducted? Where can I find it? All I ever read was a bunch of theories backed by loose facts and what I concluded that there was "no there there." I will stay tuned.

Anonymous said...

What did I miss? A Watchdog investigation? When was that conducted? Where can I find it? All I ever read was a bunch of theories backed by loose facts and what I concluded that there was "no there there." I will stay tuned.

March 13, 2011 9:01 AM

I always crack up at this. Give them a video with the person saying the words and they will call it "loose facts" with no "there there". Tom has been diligent in using the actual words of the charlatans. It is one thing I really give him credit for.

The problem is you never stopped the analyze the words of your idols biblically. You let them do your thinking for you.

Amazing what folks will fall for. I think it has to do with embarassment for following a charlatan. They don't want to admit they were fleeced and that ignorant.

noleggio audio said...

I really appreciate it that you shared with us such an informative post. Technology is very important for every one. Your blog is very important for small businessman who works on audiovisual services. Thanks for sharing this.