"This [the tithing doctrine] is the big daddy. This is their sacred cow. This is the beating heart of their evil empire. The crown jewel. The Death Star. The one ring to bill them all. The pot of gold. Their matrix (into which they want to plug you). Their Wizard of Oz. Their magic spell. Their special power. Their secret recipe with the eleven herbs and spices. Their Golden Goose. The very air upon which they breathe!Question this doctrine and watch these money hungry pastors bare their fangs. This is a teaching that they will bear no compromise on. Tithing, or at least their own version of tithing, is their one true love." Mark Vrankovich of Cultwatch
------------------------------------
Readers - I am going to be writing a few articles again on tithing to bring to your attention the continued false teaching, and outright spiritually abusive comments made by pastors in the pulpit to their congregation regarding personal finances. It ranges all the way from the emergent churches, into what were once the most theologically reliable SBC mega churches.I want to start off by first directing your attention to a blog entitled "Church Tithing & Stewardship Report" and a new series there entitled "Tithing on Trial". So far the author has posted three articles in this series with more to come - the latest one addressing the misuse of Matthew 23:23 that many preachers use today, claiming this text proves Jesus affirmed tithing as applicable to Christians.
The author of this blog goes by the name "Jared", and his profile says he lives here in Jacksonville! I don't know his identity and have never communicated with him (at least I don't think I have!), but he has an excellent website on the subject of tithing. Jared is a born again Christian, a layman, and best of all, he is not ordained - making him particularly qualified to speak on this topic - and I'm only half joking when I say that.
It is absolutely amazing to see preachers like Mac Brunson and Steve Gaines continue to use the once great pulpits of FBC Jax and Bellevue Baptist to put forth false and harmful doctrines regarding people's finances. They claim to be teaching what their predecessors' taught, but that is not true. We might expect it from the Perry Nobles and Robert Morris' of the church world, but when those same doctrines creep into the influential SBC churches, it is a sad day indeed. But as Mark Vrankovich says in the quote at the top, this tithing doctrine is the pastors' "pot of gold". Apparently they don't trust their God enough to preach the truth of the Bible with regard to finances.
So look for some upcoming articles along with accompanying videos on tithing - including a shocking sermon delivered by Charles Stanley - and in the mean time go to Jared's site and reach his first three articles:
And also, you might find this article on Frances Chan's view on tithing very interesting as well.
Thanks, Jared, and keep up the good work.
67 comments:
I have always had much love and respect for Pastor Chan. He's straightforward and honest.
Not many mega-church pastors walk away from a cash cow because God called them to a less-than-lucrative ministry elsewhere.
Which by the way, how many pastors leave to a church to go to a SMALLER church? Assuming the departure from the church was on good terms and there was no suspicion if foul play.
Charles Stanley? I thought he was into book sales.
Thanks for the kudos. There are many articles to write. i will be posting one at the beginning of every week and will continue this for a straight year. I have brought attention to your website a few times with some of the posts you have written and will look forward to posting more in the future.
- jared
Maybe I'm wrong but didn't Adrian Rogers and Jerry Vines both preach and teach tithing? Those are the idols of many on this blog so just thought I would ask.
An objective, prayerful, and critical analysis (or study with the Holy Spirit as the teacher,) which genuinely seeks to know, and to understand the truth regarding BIBLICAL tithing; can only lead the seeker of that truth to discover: that the modern day church leadership has not been honest, nor true to the BIBLICAL texts, or contexts concerning tithing! Unnecessary manipulation, misinterpretation, and misuse of various Bible texts have created so much MISUNDERSTANDING in the body of Christ regarding financial support of both ministers & ministries. This MISAPPROPRIATION of scripture has done a host of damages while pursuing financing for accomplishing - quote-unquote, "Kingdom work."
Be encouraged my brother, and continue to shine the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ upon the conscious of the church at large. As Arthur Schopenhauer once said about truth: "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Grace & Peace - Elder gab
"Maybe I'm wrong but didn't Adrian Rogers and Jerry Vines both preach and teach tithing? Those are the idols of many on this blog so just thought I would ask."
Yes they did, though in a much more gentle manner they taught heresy.
A heretic is a heretic isn't he or she?
Grace is grace and Law is law. One belongs to only the Jew while the other belongs to those Gentiles and converted Jews from the Law to grace. Most pastors stay away from this since it hurts them in the manner in which people give. Tithing is strictly for the Jew. you won't find the word tithe in the NT. Good post WD.
Pastor Chan is making a killing off of videos and books, he does not go hungry Josh! So get off your holy high horse with your so called "respect".
Dr. Rogers taught the tithe.
Dr. Stanley teaches the tithe.
Billy Graham teaches the tithe.
David Jeremiah teaches the tithe.
I will stick with those Brothers...I am sure they are not all wrong.
Been Southern Baptist all my life and I've never NOT heard tithing preached. Some pastors preach on it more than others but again, I've never not heard it supported. Maybe it's a function of geography but in this part of the country its a done deal.
Anonymous@ 10:14pm said:
"Dr. Rogers taught the tithe.
Dr. Stanley teaches the tithe.
Billy Graham teaches the tithe.
David Jeremiah teaches the tithe."
"I will stick with those Brothers...I am sure they are not all wrong."
Well, let's see:
Charles Emmanuel - (Sweet Daddy Grace) taught the tithe.
Jim Jones taught the tithe.
Peter Popoff teaches the tithe.
Dr. Creflo Dollar teaches the tithe.
Therefore, according to your statement, I'm sure their followers would agree with you too.
But Brother, the problem is not teaching "ABOUT" the tithe, but rather teaching "TO" tithe: in an UNBIBLICAL way! None of these men are LEVITES - (born of the tribe of Levi,) or PRIESTS - (direct descendants of Aaron,) in accordance with the Bible: (fyi - Numbers 18:1 - 2, 6 - 7, 11 - 14, 19 - 32.) Read it for yourself, it's right there in YOUR Bible too.
Grace and Peace - Elder gab
Here's one of Rick Warren's Scripture twisting false teachings on tithing:
God: First or Last in Your Budget?
by Rick Warren
You may have to copy it before he deletes it. He does that a lot when he's found out sinfully torturing God's word but he never repents of it.
This whole tithing thing seems pretty simple to me. Churches have to have money to keep the doors open and the lights on. Since most churches are autonomous and self-supporting, the money to operate comes from the members in the form of tithes and offerings. The services and goods that some churches offer are quite expensive. While other churches are less expensive. If you attend a church with a new modern structure and a minister for every age group and a program for every problem then you should be expected to pay for it. If the price (tithe) seems too high, go somewhere else.
The problem is this. The entitlement mentality of our culture is slipping into the church. We want all the church has to offer without being financially responsible.
The New Testament speaks, not only of giving, but giving with the right attitude. If all of the people who sat in church on Sundays had the right attitude we would not be here blogging about tithing.
Having said that, I agree that some pastors have crossed way over the line in badgering their congregants to support their opulent lifestyle. Again, if one is offended by that practice, he or she should simply find a church where things are done properly. They are not that hard to find.
" you won't find the word tithe in the NT."
If your statement above is indicative of how well you know scripture then the rest of your statement is extremely questionable.
My seven year old found the mention of tithe in the NT.
"Since most churches are autonomous and self-supporting, the money to operate comes from the members in the form of tithes and offerings." Then preach offerings and leave off the tithe. One is mandated in the law the other is offered under grace.
Anon 10:14,
Yes, Chan does indeed make money off those videos and books, but are you so sure the money goes to him?
I would challenge you to actually meet him and even visit his home. You would be very surprised how low key he lives.
Much love, Anon. Have a nice day! :)
"Dr. Rogers taught the tithe.
Dr. Stanley teaches the tithe.
Billy Graham teaches the tithe.
David Jeremiah teaches the tithe."
"I will stick with those Brothers...I am sure they are not all wrong."
Mormons teach the tithe.
JW's teach the tithe.
Are you saying these cults are right?
See what happens when you give more credence to men and their traditions than you do the Bible?
Allen,
I understand your point. However, I consider tithes and offerings the same thing. I give a tenth part (tithe) and beyond to my church. Since no one holds a gun to my head and forces me to give, I consider it all an offering that I give with a cheerful heart.
If pastors really believed and preached tithing as a legalistic requirement then they would be kicking a lot of people out of church for noncompliance.
"If pastors really believed and preached tithing as a legalistic requirement then they would be kicking a lot of people out of church for noncompliance."
Where is the precedent in scripture for kicking someone out of church for not tithing? OT or NT?
Come to think of it, when was anyone ever kicked out of a modern day church for doing anything wrong? It is an extremely rare occurrence.
Ergun Caner continues to get speaking gigs in churches even though it was discovered that he had been fabricating his testimony for a decade.
No, that's now hot it works. You can't cut off the giving units. It's more prudent to keep them coming but guilt them into giving more. Even if the guilt isn't really backed by scripture.
I want you to keep coming back every week, but just know that you are cursed if you can't afford to give 10%. And the rich guys can feel better than everyone else while sacrificing very little.
Organize simultaneous leafleting at several dozen SBC churches regarding salaries, spending, and the subtle (and not-so-subtle) terrorism of tithe-preaching.
Instant national news topic!
LA
Anonymous 7:34 A.M.
A church where things are done properly?
Please let me know where all of these churches are since they are so easy to find!
We have looked and searched for such a church...most do not do much preaching or teaching on the Word. God is ignored all too often and reading of the scriptures during a service is apparently a thing of the past.
History lessons, feel good stories and just plain old babbling seem to be the norm in todays churches.
I just want to hear the Word taught from the pulpit. Homer Lindsey and Jerry Vines taught the Word! Today's preachers are way too worldly. I want that "Old time Religion" from Genesis to Revelation and none of the worldliness or "Best life now" nonsense!
Teach the Word!
February 14,2012 - 3:07 pm
North Jacksonville Baptist Church
Anonymous said...
"Maybe I'm wrong but didn't Adrian Rogers and Jerry Vines both preach and teach tithing? Those are the idols of many on this blog so just thought I would ask.
February 13, 2012 1:23 PM"
What's your point?
Some of the comments here have the making of a bad joke. Something along the line of:
How many Baptist Preachers does it take to preach something wrong before it becomes right?
Finding someone that preaches the word is easy. Preaching the word has to be one of the easiest things in the world to do. What’s hard is finding someone who lives the word that he preaches.
"Preaching the word has to be one of the easiest things in the world to do."
But the trouble is, so many are too busy adding to or taking away from what the Bible actually says these days. That has made the preaching of the truth so much harder as one has to spend eons breaking down peoples preconceived, false views before one proclaims the truth to them. It is the hard work of breaking up the hard, stoney, rocky, weed and thistle infested, fallow ground. A lot of explaining has go on first.
God does not need your money.
You need to give your money.
Watchdog has said previously that he does not tithe.
And he wonders why so many bad things happen to him???
Watchdog, you have lost your good name, your reputation, and your church membership at FBC.
God always gets his tithe one way or the other.
@ February 14, 2012 9:32 PM said,
"God always gets his tithe one way or the other."
And I'll guarantee that you really believe that too! Shame on you for lying on God like that! It just ain't the truth. But you won't believe, because you won't rightly divide the word of truth: shame-shame-shame on you!
Very superstitious...when you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer, superstition ain't the way.
But GRACE is, thank you Jesus!
Grace & Peace - Elder gab
"You need to give your money."
No you don’t.
Christians want to give money, what ever they can afford at the time, what they decide in their own hearts and minds to give, without anyone dictating to them how much % to give. If they cannot afford anything that is between them and God and God isn't going to zap them for not giving. Those who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution, and it is through much tribulation we enter the kingdom of God. All Christians suffer in one form or another at diverse times throughout their lives then they eventually die. Did they die because they didn't fork over the non-Christian tithe? No. They died because death kills us all sooner than later. R U READY?
Mark 10:30; Luke 22:28, 29; John 15:20; John 16:33; Acts 9:16; Acts 14:22; Rom. 8:17; 2 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 9; Phil. 1:20; 1 Thess. 3:3; 2 Thess. 1:5; 2 Tim. 2:12; 2 Tim. 3:12; 1 Pet. 5:10; Rev. 1:9
The LAW - no exceptions:
Malachi 3:8a Will a man rob God?....Yet ye have robbed me. In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye [are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation.
NT revelation of being CURSED:
Gal.3:10 Certainly, there is a curse on all who rely on their own efforts to live according to a set of standards because Scripture says, "Whoever doesn't obey everything that is written in Moses' Teachings is cursed."
James 2:10 If someone obeys all of God's laws except one, that person is guilty of breaking all of them.
Romans 3:20-22
20 Not one person can have God's approval by following Moses' Teachings. Moses' Teachings show what sin is.21 Now, the way to receive God's approval has been made plain in a way other than Moses' Teachings. Moses' Teachings and the Prophets tell us this.22 Everyone who believes has God's approval through faith in Jesus Christ. There is no difference between people.
Grace & Peace - Elder gab
"Watchdog has said previously that he does not tithe."
"And he wonders why so many bad things happen to him???"
Just finished reading a book titled "Ten Dumb Things That Smart Christians Believe"
I'm not sure that the last half of the title applies to the FBCJAX Troll, but one of the chapters was titled: "God Brings Good Luck"
The book goes into 10 subjects that Christians mistakenly believe because they are repeated so often (like an urban legend) - not because they are in the Bible.
9:32 pm is our resident troll.
I usually don't post his nonsense, but at times he posts things that I think some people actually believe and I'll let them through.
They are entertaining, yet also a bit scary to think he might represent how some Christians think.
:)
wow wow wow wow!!!!
I've often thought the same thing...why don't all of these churches just "trust in God and not look to people to meet your needs?"
It truly is a cult, isn't it?
I like the comment about how churches need to keep the lights on.
Isn't that true.
Then why don't they just say that to their congregations instead of brainwashing and browbeating them?
Anon. 12:08
Contrary to popular belief, not all churches are into brainwashing and browbeating. Our Church produces a detailed financial report each month where every penny is accounted for. Even the Pastor's salary is broken down for everyone to see.
People see and understand exactly how much it takes to keep the doors open and lights on. When giving drops off we immediately have to cut something from the budget. Recently, the Pastor took a cut in pay in order to keep some of our mission ministries funded.
Our Pastor's messages do not focus on tithing. He is a solid bible preacher.
These types of churches are out there. They do exist. If you cannot find one, I might suggest that you open your home on Sundays, invite a few friends over and start a church.
“God does not need your money.”
Exactly! This may be the first thing the troll has gotten right. God neither needs nor requires anything from us.
Douglas that is the point I was trying to make. Telling the truth is always easier. Not being truthful is a lot harder.
The New Testament teaches giving so really there are arguments that you should give more.
Want to really upset a "tithe hungry" SBC Pastor ie Pharisee?
Just put on the check and offering slip ~ Designated for: ~
Makes their hairpieces melt.
Tithing is not on trial. What's on trial are the believers who assume they can give less under grace than what was required by law.
Too many Christians believe that because we are under the New Covenant, we shouldn't have to give 10%. False. That is a lie.
Under the Old Covenant, Christians were required to return 10% (and more) by law, in order to earn God's favor. But under the New Covenant, Christians SHOULD give at least 10% because they're compelled by God's forgiveness. The difference between the two is grace. In the Old Testament era we were at the hand of God's mercy. But in the New Testament, we are saved by God's grace and that should cause us to return above and beyond to the Lord what was required of us in the Old Testament.
Any Christian who feels that returning less than 10% of their money is satisfactory is not thankful enough for God's grace. We should be returning above and beyond 10% back to the Lord, to the Lord's church, because that's where you find the body of Christ, and it is the body of Christ that minister's to the lost world. Not secular non-profit organizations.
Robert - you parrot very well what you've been taught. Only problem is you've been taught not what the bible says but what some man says the bible says.
Let's assume that I agree with your entire argument about law, grace, and what Christians "should" give. There is one tiny problem. You need to replace "10%" with "23 1/3%" in your argument.
Your pastors have taught you that all that was required was 10% in the Old Covenant. I have bad news for you Robert. You've been lied to. While your pastor pats you on the back for your obedient 10%, you're under God's curse as you are not giving under grace which was given under law and that is 23 1/3%.
Sorry Robert, you're the one robbing God and you're on trial using your own pastors' false teaching.
And you're guilty. I'm free brother, you're the one who is cursed.
Do I miss the blessing if I give only 9 percent?
Notice I said "10% (and more)."
But if you believe what you just said, then you shouldn't have a problem with pastor's encouraging believers to only return 10%. That's less than half of 23 1/3.
Robert @ February 15, 2012 6:43 PM said,
"Too many Christians believe that because we are under the New Covenant, we shouldn't have to give 10%. False. That is a lie."
Honestly, Robert, giving is not the issue here at all: at least not for me! Giving generously, cheerfully, consistently, and as God so prospers my life: is a wonderful joy. However, I do take issue with those who insist, persist, and cannot seem to resist mixing law with grace: and so blatantly!
I will assume that you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, and that if the Bible says it, you believe it, and that settles it! Upon this assumption, consider this, in Leviticus 27:30-31, God gives the following "SPECIFIC" instructions regarding tithes:
Leviticus 27:30-31
30 "One-tenth of what comes from the land, whether grain or fruit, is holy and belongs to the LORD.31 If you buy back any part of it, you must add one-fifth more to it."
Now, in verse 31, it states that the tither can "BUY BACK" their tithe, with an additional 20% charge. I don't think one could "BUY BACK" tithe with more grain or fruit; but rather some form of currency would seem more appropriate. The currency would not be considered TITHE MONEY, but rather; Redemption Money!
This exchange would benefit the tither, and the Levite both: as each would receive an immediate tangible blessing. This makes so much sense, because it's done God's way.
But, let's say, the tither did it like most Pastors require today; and the tither presented $100 as their tithe; and then decided to exercise their God given right to "BUY BACK" their tithe: the 20% additional charge would only BENEFIT the Pastor; and the tither would be at an immediate deficit in this exchange. This makes no sense, because it's done Man's way.
I'm not implying, we should not give money, but I am saying: how ever much you choose to give, do it in faith, with love, and not of necessity, fear, or coercion.
Robert, God loves a cheerful giver, and Pastors love cheerful tither's; but try to "BUY BACK" your tithes this Sunday, and let us all know how that fiasco turns out!
Grace & Peace - Elder gab
"God always gets his tithe one way or the other."
I guess some people couldn't respect a god that didn't always get his tithe one way or the other. I can't see where you would love a god like that; but you'd sure fear him!
How do you feel about PEOPLE who always get their way, one way or another? It inspires fear of crossing them. Not respect, not love.
Hi Robert - I know that you're much smarter than that.
If you try to tell me that we "should" (that we must to obey and receive God's blessings) as Christians return at least as much as what God required in the Old Testament tithe, AND you give me the wrong number of 10% when it clearly is 23 1/3%, you're not being honest, or you just are uninformed because you're just listening to what a man says the bible says.
In fact if you really believe that Christians' finances are cursed if they only give an amount less than what was required under the OT law, then you better darned be sure you know what the right number is! It is 23 1/3% not 10%.
First fruit tithing pastors like yours, Mac Brunson, know that on average peeps only give 3%. And I don't believe they really are concerned with getting your finances "uncursed", but their goal is revenue maximization. So they put the 10% number out there for you as a stretch goal. But they know what was required is 23 1/3%. If they were worried about you being cursed or uncursed, they would be honest with you about the 23 1/3%.
So it is not "10% and more" it is "23 1/3% and more".
The LORD loves a cheerful giver!
All you folks who don't believe in tithing need to read your Bibles!
Malachi 3:10, "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it."
I just checked my Bible, and Malachi is right next to "the Gospel According to St. Matthew". That's close enough to the New Testament for me!!!
"Under the Old Covenant, Christians were required to return 10% (and more) by law, in order to earn God's favor."
Robert, Christians weren't required to tithe under the Old Covenant for two reasons:
1. The old covenant was for Israel only.
2. Christianity does not exist in the old covenant, but in the new.
The law was not given to us and does not apply to us. That includes the curses.
"Tithing is not on trial. What's on trial are the believers who assume they can give less under grace than what was required by law."
The law required 23 1/3%. So, you are saying that every Christian should be giving a quarter of their income to their local church - after giving an additional third to the government?
That would leave you with around 40% of your income to pay for your mortgage, auto, food, medical, education, kids, etc.
Wow, you must have a lot of extremely rich people attending your church if they can pay for all their expenses with just 40% of their income.
Another thread where we get into the 10%, 23%, old covenant, new covenant debate.
It's so tiring. It isn't going to change one heart or mind. It's merely a platform for pontification. How much smarter I am than you.
Ugh. If you want to tithe, tithe. If you want to give more, give more. Then move along!
Catholics are sometimes criticized for making tradition equal in authority to scripture.
In the case of tithing, Baptists make their tradition more authoritative than scripture.
When the tradition (10%) contradicts scripture (23 1/3%), they preach the tradition and hope that no one bothers to read the three tithes in the OT.
From John MacArthur:
Two kinds of giving are taught consistently throughout Scripture: giving to the government (always compulsory), and giving to God (always voluntary).
The issue has been greatly confused, however, by some who misunderstand the nature of the Old Testament tithes. Tithes were not primarily gifts to God, but taxes for funding the national budget in Israel.
Because Israel was a theocracy, the Levitical priests acted as the civil government. So the Levite's tithe (Leviticus 27:30-33) was a precursor to today's income tax, as was a second annual tithe required by God to fund a national festival (Deuteronomy 14:22-29). Smaller taxes were also imposed on the people by the law (Leviticus 19:9-10; Exodus 23:10-11). So the total giving required of the Israelites was not 10 percent, but well over 20 percent. All that money was used to operate the nation.
All giving apart from that required to run the government was purely voluntary (cf. Exodus 25:2; 1 Chronicles 29:9). Each person gave whatever was in his heart to give; no percentage or amount was specified.
This stuff makes me crazy.
We are a freak show to the world.
"This stuff makes me crazy.
We are a freak show to the world."
That's the darn truth! I once was a part of it all, and sometimes I miss the warmth of belonging. Then I read long arguments about tithing.
I recently mentioned to someone who goes to a Methodist church, that I might check them out simply because I miss the warmth of a traditional service. She was saying, yeah, great, but the pastor just preached on how several people had died and hadn't left money to the church in their wills, and how the congregation was upset about his saying that.
That made me miss it less. It's like I miss it, yet what am I really missing? I guess it's like most things in the past. You build it up in your mind to be much more warm and cozy than it actually is in reality.
I left the Baptist church many years and will never go back. I now attend the Methodist church and feel much more comfortable.Never hear the preacher condemn the congregation and the women of the church are treated as equals in all areas. It's just a different experience and I highly recommend it.
Are you Following the Christian RELIGION, or the CHRIST?
TO: Followers of the Christian RELIGION
FROM: Apostle of the Gentiles - (Paul)
SUBJ: Followers of the Jewish RELIGION, or Followers of the CHRIST: Which are YOU?
Greetings to all,
Good will and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ are yours!
I'm surprised that you're so quickly deserting Christ, who called you in his kindness, to follow a different kind of good news. But what some people are calling good news is not really good news at all. They are confusing you. They want to distort the Good News about Christ.
I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the Good News I have spread is not a human message. I didn't receive it from any person. I wasn't taught it, but Jesus Christ revealed it to me.
You heard about the way I once lived when I followed the Jewish RELIGION. You heard how I violently persecuted God's church and tried to destroy it. You also heard how I was far ahead of other Jews in my age group in following the Jewish RELIGION. I had become that fanatical for the traditions of my ancestors.
But God, who appointed me before I was born and who called me by his kindness, was pleased to show me his Son.
He did this so that I would tell people who are not Jewish that his Son is the Good News....
(Galatians 1 - from GWT)
Are you Following the Christian RELIGION, or the CHRIST?
Grace & Peace - Elder gab
Pastors preach on witnessing and we don't do it.
Pastors preach on prayer and we don't do it.
Pastors preach on missions and we don't do it.
Pastors preach on worship and we don't do it.
So if he preaches on tithing, no big deal? We are not tithing, witnessing, praying, going, and worshipping anyway.
All we do is complain.
That is the purpose of this blog.......right?
"Pastors preach on witnessing and we don't do it."
"Pastors preach on prayer and we don't do it."
"Pastors preach on missions and we don't do it."
Speak for yourself TROLL.
Because you aren't doing it doesn't mean that others aren't.
"Pastors preach on witnessing and we don't do it."
"Pastors preach on prayer and we don't do it."
"Pastors preach on missions and we don't do it."
Speak for yourself TROLL.
Because you aren't doing it doesn't mean that others aren't.
"So if he preaches on tithing, no big deal?"
Great logic there, TROLL.
By that line of thinking (or lack thereof), why not preach on a works salvation, baptismal regeneration, and transubstantiation?
Really, really bad thinking.
Par for the course.
"All we do is complain."
"That is the purpose of this blog.......right?"
Nope.
It just seems that way after reading your comments.
Malachi 3:8 is talking to the PRIESTS. It was the priestly class who were violating the law and causing the whole nation to fail. THEY were robbing God by stealing the tithes and not bringing the WHOLE TITHE to the storehouse.
Why do ministers continue to misuse this verse to say that Christians rob God by not tithing? If anything it is talking about the minister who steals the tithe! I wonder how they might be doing that? Jets? Building programs? Wasteful spending?
"Malachi 3:8 is talking to the PRIESTS."
How did you come to that conclusion.
Malachi 3:6 addresses the "children of Jacob" - Israel.
Malachi 3:9 says "you are robbing me, the whole nation of you"
The blessings mentioned in the following passages are: to rebuke the devourer (locusts) and that the vine in the field will not fail to bear.
That would be a blessing to the person giving the tithe (farmer) not to the priests.
It's like I miss it, yet what am I really missing? I guess it's like most things in the past. You build it up in your mind to be much more warm and cozy than it actually is in reality.
Amen. I've said for a long time now that I didn't leave the Baptist church. It left me.
What has Blogger done to the captcha function? I had to refresh the page 6 times before I could find one I could even begin to read! And I wasn't sure about that one. If comments drop off, this is probably the reason.
Make that 10 times.
“This stuff makes me crazy.
We are a freak show to the world.”
Is there anybody here who has a family that does not quarrel or knows of one that does? People fuss and fight over much more trivial things. Why do we think church life should be any better? Fussing should not be a big deal. What we need to do is work to a resolution. The Word says what it means. It is straight. Stop trying to twist it to mean something that it does not. Speaking for me, only in Jesus am I justified and no one or anything else no matter how much or how little I give.
If you want to be disappointed put your faith in people and things. On the other hand, if you put your faith in Jesus you will never be disappointed.
WishIHadKnown -
So who out there is "working for a resolution?"
No one. Everyone is just stating their case and copying and pasting scripture as if it's going to change hearts and minds. It isn't. Ever.
And the pulipteers sure aren't working for resolution.
My total faith and trust is in Jesus, not in any Christian leader. And still there are times when the church greatly grieves me.
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