More Tithing Madness: "Give by Revelation, Not By Reason" Says Rick Warren

We are in the last weekend of October, and you know what that means: the last Sunday that your pastor has to deliver his Malachi 3:10, "bring the tithe" sermon during the month of October.

So in keeping with the time of the year, I wanted to share a quote from a Rick Warren article entitled
"8 Reasons Believers Give to Your Church" that appeared on the Pastors.com website October 24th, 2013. Rick Warren is probably the one man that most evangelical pastors look to for guidance on how to grow their church. If you wonder why your pastor this Sunday is going to be illogical and manipulative in discussing what the bible says about tithing read this gem from Rick to his fellow pastors:

"Teach people that they can either give by reason or by revelation. Giving by reason means this – I look at what I have, I figure out what’s reasonable and I commit that amount. It doesn’t take any faith to give by reason. I just figure out what can I afford to give. Giving by revelation means I determine my gift by praying “Lord, what do You want to give through me?” This requires faith. When you give by revelation, you’re committing an act of worship and saying, 'How much am I willing to trust God?' "

Doesn't this explain why pastors lie to their congregations about a non-existent 10% Old Testament tithe (it really is 23 1/3%) that applies to Christians in order to avoid a "devourer"? The pastors want you to NOT use reason - they want you to have "faith" and give by "revelation". And where do the pastors want this "revelation" to come from? From your pastor standing in a pulpit and telling you that Malachi 3:10 means you are robbing God unless you tithe, and that the devil (or God, depending on the verse they use) will steal the tithe from you anyways. Or that it's not your money anyways, or that your money needs to be "redeemed" by giving the first fruits, etc. etc. That is not revelation, it is lies and manipulation.

How far has modern evangelical Christianity fallen that we are just flat out telling people to not use reason in important matters like giving? One place a father, a mother, a husband and wife - or a young person just starting out - must use logic, reason, and planning, is in the area of their finances. But Rick Warren turns this upside down suggesting to use reason in figuring out how much to give to one's church is to have a LACK of faith. It is not "trusting God" to give by revelation instead of reason - it IS trusting your pastor, and your pastor is wrong if he is telling you this nonsense.

I say pastors who preach this manipulative nonsense are the ones without faith. They don't trust their God to provide the resources for their salary and their church by being honest to people about what the bible says regarding finances.

So have some faith, pastors. God will provide, right?

By using reason, and planning, and careful discussion - looking for the immediate and future financial needs of your spouse and children, you THEN determine how much you can give to your church. Do NOT give by "faith" - meaning don't give the first 10% and think you're being super spiritual waiting for God to give you the rent and electric by month's end. That is illogical, unbiblical, and just plain stupid.

If your reason leads you to being able to give 10% or more, and you purpose in your heart that this is what you want to give to your church, give it. If it is 1%, or 0.5%, then give it cheerfully and don't feel bad. I hear stories every day of people's homes in foreclosure, they've been unemployed or underemployed for months - and these are very decent, honorable Christians who are suffering. Yet their pastor will put a guilt trip on them about robbing God, or worse yet that they are in the financial shape they are in because they didn't tithe.

And pastors, by the way: when we use reason in determining what we give, that does glorify God. God gave us brains, and he gave us the ability to reason.

And God gave us the reasoning ability to detect religious nonsense from a man of God.

Local Jacksonville Connection to the Steven Furtick Story: Stovall Weems on Board That Votes on Furtick's Salary

 

Last night Stuart Watson's 2nd installment of his investigation into the Elevation Church and Steven Furtick's finances - and Furtick's new $1.7M, 16,000 square foot mansion on 19 acres - aired on WCNC in Charlotte.

And there is a Jacksonville connection to this very hot story that has Steven Furtick's finances under a microscope: as Watson reports our own Jacksonville mega church pastor Stovall Weems of Celebration Church is or was one of the five friends Furtick recruited to make up a so-called "Board of Overseerers" that votes on Furtick's salary!


But that is not all. As reported by Watson, there seems to be a conflict of interest involved with Weems and two of the other 4 "board of overseers" in that they personally have financial connections to the Elevation Church. As reported in the story:

"The board of overseers is made entirely of other mega church pastors just like Steven Furtick. 'The financial well-being of all of these guys are intimately intertwined'. That means Steven Furtick agrees to pay them to preach at Elevation [including Stovall, pictured above] and they pay him to preach at their conferences or mega churches."

So how on earth is it justified that men who earn money from Elevation Church by speaking at Furtick's church - yet have no official connection to the church itself - are on the board that sets his salary, yet none of the members who pay for the salary are able to find out what that number is?

The one Elevation Church official who IS speaking to Stuart Watson confirms that men like Stovall
do get paid for their speaking gigs at Elevation, but the pay is "small in scope". But he won't give any ranges of numbers.

Maybe I can help. I wrote about this practice two years ago in an article entitled "Modern Day 'Circuit Riders' - Traveling Mega Church Pastors Finding Another Way to Fleece the Flocks and Recycle Their Sermons." And in that article I wrote:

"Insiders tell me that visiting preachers at mega churches will earn up to $3000 for a Sunday morning sermon, or $5000 if they do the hard work of staying over and preaching the Sunday evening sermon also. But I'm sure they have not one iota of guilt, since they tithe on the money, which makes them super spiritual.

Not bad scratch. If they earn $3000 in addition to their travel, meals and lodging, that is about $100 per minute for an average 30-minute sermon. Not an hour. A MINUTE. That is professional baseball player per minute money. While churches everywhere are seeing their revenue continue to decline, the mega church pastors are hot and heavy to get out on the circuit to get their share of the visiting preacher dollars. "

And that number of $3000 to $5000 is for a more "modest" SBC mega church here in Jax. I am going to go out on a limb and estimate that Furtick's bunch pays much more than that to its visiting Men of God. But of course we'll never know. It is all top secret.

And while I'm at it, let me quote myself again from this article of two years ago, because this circuit-riding practice gets worse - many of these pastors like Furtick pay other pastors to come in and "beat the sheep", or what I would call shake-down the congregation, to get them to give more money. I wrote:

"Sometimes preachers are brought in to do the dirty work of the pastor. One of the more brazen moves was Perry Noble of NewSpring church hiring Robert Morris to come in for two straight weeks to beat up the sheep over tithing, telling them of the curse on them and their money unless they gave Perry's church 10% of their income. Shameless."

As I said yesterday, I'm glad reporters like Stuart Watson are finally reporting on these practices that are fleecing congregations all over our country, and which will eventually drive evangelical Christianity into the ground as all of this is exposed.

And I highly, highly recommend that members of mega church pastors here in Jacksonville read the Wartburg Watch article yesterday, "Steven Furtick Proves That It Is Time to Stop Giving to the Local Church."  Dee and Deb give EXCELLENT advice to members of today's modern church regarding their financial support of their church.

Watch This Video - Humorously Makes the Point Why You Can't Trust Steven's Friends to Set His Salary

As we await installment 2 of Stuart Watson's expose discussing Furtick's friends who help set his salary, I want to post this video from almost two years ago.

This video shows how much Steven and his buddies love and adore each other. How on earth can these guys who absolutely slobber over each other be the ones who hold each other accountable financially or otherwise?

In the video notice how Craig Groeschel plugs Steven's book. They tell their respective congregations just how lucky they are to have their Man of God as their pastor.

And if you can make it all the way to the end, you'll see Steven tell the story of how thrilled he was when his friend Craig Groeschel flew on a plane to surprise Steven and be the one to introduce him before he spoke. 

Watch this video. It is funny.

But very creepy.

"The House of Steven" - Charlotte TV Station Asks the Tough Questions About Furtick's Money - Exposes Cult of Personality

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Last night WCNC in Charlotte aired Stuart Watson's expose on the Steven Furtick $1.7 Million mansion being built on 19 acres. The Charlotte Observer also has posted an article about Furtick. Looks like Satan is busy attacking Steven there in Charlotte. Perhaps even two helicopters were flown over Stevens "not so great of a house".

Watch it. It is fair. Stuart Watson did everything he could to get Furtick and Elevation to talk to him, but Furtick and Elevation must be taking Paige Patterson's advice and not giving answers to the media.

Much of the ground Stuart covers in this piece has been covered by bloggers such as yours truly over the past several years.

Here are some of the most important points made by Stuart, and some that we've covered that need to be emphasized:

1. Lack of Transparency: Watson points out that the church will not give out exact numbers on the sums of money involved in the book deal. How much were the advances, how much did the publisher pay Elevation for the promotions, how much did Furtick donate? Furtick's salary? All top secret, always will be. They have to be. If the numbers were known, it would hurt giving. An easy decision for the church. Total secrecy. I've written about this numerous times, including here.

2.  Cult of Personality: Furtick is a rockstar. Watson makes that clear. Furtick IS the brand. That is the model of the modern mega or giga church. People want their pastor to be famous. They want him to be "edgy", a bit controversial, and even confrontational. He has to be these things because after all, a pastor is fighting Beelzebub himself and is in the business of saving souls.  Ed Stetzer warned about the cult of personality back in 2009. Furtick is a classic example of this phenomena. And if you want a laugh, please check out this video of the "Pastor's Mutual Admiration Society" - one of my best - Furtick and Groeschel singing each others' praises.

3. Pastors Using Their Churches for Marketing and Personal Brand Building: I have been writing about this sickening trend for 7 years (here and here and here for example). I saw it thrust in my face at my former church, and now it is something common place. Pastors use the resources of the church to market their books, their video tapes, their Holy Land trips, their trips down the Danube River, you name it. As Chris Rosebrough points out in Watson's piece, it is the modern day version of the moneychangers in the temple.

4. Megachurches are More "Business" and Less "Church": As Watson shows how money flows back and forth between book publisher, Furtick, and the church, and the church members have no clue about the amounts - we see the cold hard truth. Elevation and others like it are just big businesses who operate as tax-exempt 501(c)3 religious organizations. But they want their followers to think it is the "church of the living God" - and thus they are obligated to support it with the first 10% of their income.

5. Manipulative Methods for Raising Revenue: What the untold story is HOW Elevation raises money. Their financial strategy is to tell members they are cursed by God (or devoured by the devil) unless they give 10% of their income. Furtick has had Robert Morris in to shake down the congregation.

And tomorrow night Stuart Watson will present the 2nd part: who the men are that decide Furtick's salary. They are other mega church pastors, not the members, not elders or trustees elected by the members.

So glad men like Stuart Watson are letting their light shine where it needs to be shone.

Robert Morris Shakedown at LifeChurch: Don't Pay Rent or Electric Bill Until FIRST You Pay the Church - Or 100% of Your Money is Cursed

"Don't give the first portion [of your income] to the mortgage company because the mortgage company does not have the power to bless your finances. Only God does. Don't give the first portion to the electric company, the electric company cannot bless your finances, only God can. Would you rather live with 100% of your income and all of it cursed, or 90% of your income and all of it blessed. That's what the Bible says." Robert Morris at Life Church, October 2013

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Above is more October tithing nonsense from Robert Morris - but to be fair, he delivers his any month of the year.

Robert Morris was invited this month to preach his first-fruits, multiplication tithing gobbledygook to Craig Groeschel's Life Church - touted as the largest church in North America with 46,000 members at multiple sites. Craig's church is starting a new fund-raising drive called "Multiply" (by 0.9 apparently), and he brought the master tithing shake down artist Robert Morris to kick things off.

When Robert goes to these churches all over the country he basically gives the same message: that your income is cursed, and needs to be "redeemed" by you forking over the first 10% of it to your church. If you don't do this, God will take it anyways, and you'll be cursed, and your family, marriage, children are all at risk from a "devourer".

It is hard to believe that someone who spews such nonsense is taken seriously, but he is. The only thing more disturbing than what he says, is that pastors actually invite this man and expose the people they are supposed to be helping to this man's garbage that will either hurt them financially, or turn them against Christianity altogether.  I saw it happen here in my own home town of Jacksonville, Florida, when Stovall Weems of Celebration Church - now the largest church in Jacksonville - had Robert in to preach a few months ago.

And some advice from the Watchdog that is based on truth and not fables, that is designed to help you and not hurt you:

"Do give the first, and biggest and most generous payments to the mortgage and to the electric company - and to your kids' college education and to your wife and to your retirement account - BEFORE giving large sums of money to your church. Don't ever, EVER, put the needs of a 501(c) organization above the immediate and long-term needs of your family and then be fool enough to say you're doing it for Jesus. Furthermore, the church does not have the willingness or the ability to "bless you" financially, and all of the aforementioned DO have the ability to bless you as they will return services commensurate with the payments you make."

And THAT, Robert, is what the bible says. Like here:

"People who don’t take care of their relatives, and especially their own families, have given up their faith. They are worse than someone who doesn’t have faith in the Lord." I Tim 5:8