"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Wednesday, June 17, 2009

FBC Jax Gets Good Laugh at Racial and Ethnic Stereotypes

The bold, brash, "let's see who we can offend" style of preaching continues down at the big church under the leadership of Mac Brunson and Jim Smyrl.

Smyrl has gone after the Catholics and priests calling them a "cult" and "cult leaders", has written that Obama voters have voted themselves out of fellowship, and has called the church to protest the Muslim domes in our city else we'll all "come under Muslim law" very soon. Smryl has even called another baptist church's TV advertisement "blasphemous self promotion".

Sunday night it was time to get the Sunday night crowd to laugh and guffaw at the stereotypes of black and Hispanic worshippers.

First Baptist Church Jacksonville had Dr. Ergun Caner preach unannounced Sunday evening, June 14, 2009. Caner apparently was in town to work with Mac on the next version of their book "Why Churches Die", and he preached at First Baptist Church Fernandina Beach that morning. Caner, a former Muslim, is the President of the Liberty Theological Seminary at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia [corrected].

The content of Caner's sermon on what constitutes worship was excellent. Caner opened his sermon with a discussion of various worship styles, pointing out that worship is about substance, not style. True enough. But in the process of making his point, unbelievably, he attempted to make the FBC Jax faithful laugh by exaggerating stereotypes of black and Hispanic churches and their church members that have nothing to do with either substance OR style:

"The central premise and thesis I want to give you, is 'its not what you say, its to whom you say.' Amen? How many here ever been to a black church? Isn't that somethin'? You worship - that's a different style of worship than First Jacksonville and Thomas Road. Anybody that's ever been to a black church: don't you ever complain to me about gettin' out after 12 noon. [Laughter] I preached in one about six weeks ago and didn't even get in the pulpit until 1! [Laughter] They took up 12 offerings. Apparently they go back in the back and count it and if it isn't enough they gonna take it up again. [Laughter] A different style of worship. Different style of dress….I am aware I am in a pulpit without a tie but I can't find a shirt wide enough to button. Boy, you go to a black church, gentlemen, you ain't just gonna have on a blue suit, your shoes are gonna match your suit, and your handkerchief is going to match your tie, and the whole outfit is going to match your car. It's BEAUTIFUL. [Laughter]

And ladies: when we talk about black church, we're talkin' about hats. And I'm not just talkin' Easter hats as some of you may wear, I'm talkin' 'bout satellite dish hats. [laughter]. Big enough to receive a signal [Laughter], with a curtain rod goin' down the front that you can just pull the curtain across. [Laughter]

How many of you ever been to a Hispanic church? Some kind of worship there. That's whole man worship - body, soul, and spirit. In the middle of the song, you may recognize the hymn, you don't know what they're sayin', but in the middle of a song they'll bust out with a BLEEEEEEYAHHHHHHHH. [Laughter]

Its not the style, it’s the substance."

This is stereotyping that has no place in the pulpit. It seems to me to be born out of arrogance on the part of such speakers, and it plays to the ignorance of the listeners. Would Fred Luter laugh at Caner's remarks? Would Voddie Baucham find that funny? How about other black ministers in our city like R.J. Washington at Titus Harvest Dome Church and Gary Williams at First Baptist Mandarin and Rudolph W. McKissick at Bethel Baptist? Would they be rolling in the aisle laughing at Caner's stereotypes of their churches? Are they counting offerings and taking multiple offerings if they didn't get enough, while their members wear suits that match their shoes that match their CARS and their women have curtain rods on their satellite dish hats?

My wife is Hispanic, and I've been in Hispanic churches and I've never heard them yell out a BLEEEEEYAYAHHHHHHH in a church service...in fact I've never heard anybody in our family yell that, let alone in church. Was Caner talking about Mexicans or Puerto Ricans or Cubans? Maybe Spaniards or Peruvians? I mean really, I thought Caner was next going to talk about fried chicken and watermelons, or tacos and burritos - those stereotypes have just about as little to do with worship styles as do the suits, hats, or cars of worshippers.

I know Caner is a fine man, and meant no harm and was trying to be funny while making an important point about being tolerant of different worship styles - which I fully agree with him on. But his poor attempt at racial humor is a prime example of the problem we have in the Southern Baptist Convention. While our numbers are dwindling and giving is down to missions - we have a PRESIDENT of a seminary telling racial stereotype jokes in one of the SBC's largest churches. This is what makes Southern Baptists look like racist rednecks to anyone that is not already a Southern Baptist.

I wonder if Caner would repeat these jokes in any SBC church he would visit - I seriously doubt it. In fact, that morning at First Baptist Fernandina Beach, Caner delivered the same sermon but very much toned down his "jokes" about black worshippers - and the jokes he did tell had only scant laughter (you can listen to his sermon here). But apparently he knows his audience at FBC Jax, and perhaps he knows what Mac and and Jim have been preaching and what they would tolerate, and felt all too comfortable in getting some belly laughs at First Baptist Church Jacksonville using racial and ethnic stereotypes.

The crowd ate it up, and had a good belly laugh.

Perhaps THAT says more about FBC Jacksonville than it does about Ergun Caner.

200 comments:

Anonymous said...

Just another example of you trying to find something to offend you at FBC, Jax.

Why don't you just move on to your new church and quite obsessing about Mac and those you left behind (or rather, those that removed you.)

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't support Team Brunsons or his vile supporters for ANY amount of money in the world. Make no mistake about that. BUT.....

Smyrl is spot-on correct about Obama supporters voting themselves out of fellowship and that is putting it in pleasant, polite terms. AMEN!

AND, he is absolutely correct about Muslims taking over the world. Their numbers alone would make any mega pastor mega-envious when they should be mega-alarmed.

Smyrl is a foolish idiot, BUT SOMEHOW, he got those two points right on the Mac-lovin' money

Anonymous said...

I would love to have been there to hear that sermon. It was right on target and hilariously funny. Perhaps you should learn to lighten up a bit and quit trying to find a snake under every bush.

anon said...

Funny how people come on here and tell the WD to move on, when they themselves don't move on from reading this blog. Like the WD is to FBC Jax, they are to this blog. They don't like it, don't agree with it, but just can't move on.

And besides, if the WD moved on now, wouldn't it make him look like a coward? So he must continue to be the Watchdog until the church apologizes to him and his wife, publicly issues a statement that the trespass warnings against him and his wife are no longer in effect, and they begin to be more transparent in thier activities, beginning with allowing the by-laws to be obtained by all members, new and old.

How can you be a FBC Jax "Watchdog" if you move on? You can't. The WD must continue on being the WD. And when he gives it up, there will be others ready to pick up the spotlight.

Blog on Dog. Thanks for pointing out, once again, the arrogance of the speakers downtown, and the sheep like mentality of belly laughs and standing ovations for preachers who use the pulpit to bully, criticize and joke about others.

What did Caner have to say about JESUS?

How much was Caner paid by FBC Jax to speak? Thousands? How much did the other church pay him? An equal amount? Or do you suppose he charged FBC Jax more money to show up since those redneck fat cats have more money than brains. We will never know, will we?

Or maybe he was there to promote himself and Liberty, a little quid pro quo for what FBC Jax gives to Liberty each month. (The same amount goes to Liberty each month as goes to the local rescue mission?) Yes, but only Liberty gives the youngest child a part time gig and straight A's. The homeless mission can't deliver on those kinds of things.

Like WD says "its good to be 'da king."

Anonymous said...

I usually agree with you, but come on. This really was kind of funny (and true). I don't think he meant any harm. I do agree with Smyrl though. Muslims are absolutely going to take over, and Catholics border on being a cult -- not an occult, which is of Satan -- but a cult, which brainwashes its members.

I really wouldn't be surprised if your suit is dismissed. I think you should have sued Mac and the sheriff personally.

Anonymous said...

I love the way black ppl dress at church! They dress for the King! Unlike white ppl who: A)Dress like slobs (flip-flops everywhere, etc..) B) Dress scandelously (way to much skin shown there, "ladies")or C) Dress to impress OTHER PEOPLE, wearing clothes they likely can't afford in the first place.

Black ppl dress with old-school class for church (not sayin the rest of the week, though).

Anonymous said...

You folks who agree with Smyrl and Caner...that is exactly the point. They preach to you knowing you will eat it all up and love it. Unfortunately, their words and ideas can't carry the day in the public marketplace. Others see them for what they are. Calling Catholics cult members, and spreading fear about Muslims in our city "taking over the world" is fear mongering and gives baptists an even worse reputation than we already have. Already known for ultra luxurious living by our preacher, our history of legalism, and now we are also "100%correct" and only "joking" when we attack, criticize and joke about Catholics, Muslims, blacks and hispanics.

But of course, Jim and Caner are right aren't they. We know better than those folks and we can laugh at those folks. If you don't believe it, just ask us. :)

Anonymous said...

This was about selling books. To be in the ingroup, most at FBCJax will buy the book. They may even carry it around with them at church to prove they are 'loyal'.

These guys are not stupid. Figure it up if every member bought a book.What if only half do?

Publishers love those instant sales.

Add to that 2 mega churches, a seminary, etc and think of the possiblities.

They are entertaining you to make a buck off you. Wake up, sheep.

Anonymous said...

Seems you've picked up quite a few trolls - no doubt some of the same vile people that leave their venom on the T-U's message board every day.

The comments are offensive and do not belong in church. Pretty cut and dry.

How does the saying go - preaching to the choir? That's exactly what the sermon was. And you are spot on about it saying more about FBC Jacksonville than it does about Ergun Caner.

Misery loves company and fear breeds ignorance. Lord knows FBC Jax is pregnant with ignorance.

Richard said...

June 18, 2009 1:10 PM

"Misery loves company and fear breeds ignorance. Lord knows FBC Jax is pregnant with ignorance."

WELL said.

Richard said...

Anon 10:30 AM

Coincidentally, the first comment of the thread.

"Just another example of you trying to find something to offend you at FBC, Jax.

Why don't you just move on to your new church and quite obsessing about Mac and those you left behind (or rather, those that removed you.)"


Bloggers observations:

1. Undoubtedly a current member of FBCJ. Either instructed by the powers to be to follow the blog, or actively engaging in beauty shop gossip. Appears to be bragging that Tom was treated the way he was.

2. There are those two words I keep hearing ... "move on." Seems to be two words common to Mac regime supporters as opposed to Mac regime dissenters. Membership in FBC has nothing to do with it. Another word common is "obsessing." Mac regime supporters call it obsessing, Mac regime dissenters call it informative.

Ya know, a drug addict will irreversibly destroy his brain if he does enough of them. If he stops, there might be some hope for the body but the dead brain cells never recover. Apparently if you drink enough "kool-aid," the same thing happens. It's too late. Your body is still functioning but your brain is past any hope at all.

My condolences to Anon 10:30 AM. You've apparently been drinking WAY too much.

Anonymous said...

A verse to ponder during these troubling times: Matt 5:13 "Ye are the salt of the earth; but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.".

Richard said...

Hey Tom, this one's for you buddy.

With all due respect, I too would have been rolling in the aisles with laughter. It is so true about those satellite dish hats! Truth be known tho, I'm sure the black men have just a big a laugh about it (behind their wives backs,) and the black women all discuss it (behind each others backs) ... not the sermon but the hideous hat someone was wearing to church the Sunday before. We call that "beauty shop gossip."

It is only that fashions have changed in the last 50 years, but there was a day when the white ladies did the same thing! We men didn't have a chance to watch the minister as undoubtedly some "June Cleaver type" would be sitting in the pew in front of us with this HUGE hat on. We had the same problems with the white ladies when the bee-hive hair-doos of the 1960s was all the rage ... couldn't see the minister over the hair!

Whatever would Hedda Hopper say?

The Hispanic reference was unfortunate. Dr. Caner needs to be educated to the fact that there are many WHITE evangelical churches in this country whose members are prone to "bust out with a BLEEEEEEYAHHHHHHHH" and dance in the aisles at any given time and they don't have to be in the middle of a hymn to do it!

There are times when a little levity helps any sad situation but yes, perhaps the pulpit of a Southern Baptist Church is an inappropriate stage.

I got a bit of a chuckle from this irony ... you post states "Caner, a former Muslim, is the President of the Liberty Theological Seminary at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia." And he is commiserating with Mac on a book entitled, "Why Churches Die."

Does Smyrl know this?

Anonymous said...

Sounds like we ought to send your thoughts on over to Bethel Baptist and other Black Pastors and get their insights?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Why not have Caner read the SBC motion on Obama in Louisville? He could then call up to the platform its author, Dwight McKissic and his wife, and crack a few jokes about Dwight's shoes matching his tie matching his car, and ask his wife where her satellite dish and curtain rod hat is. We'd all get a great big chuckle before voting on the Obama motion. Hardy har har.

Former FBC Insider said...

Joking and making fun of yourself is one thing.
It is always offensive to joke at another’s expense.
It is particularly risky business to do so from the pulpit. That should be the one place where it would never happen. It’s not that the jokes were particularly harsh, it’s that they happened at all, from the place where leadership is held to a higher standard. Making fun of how people dress and how they choose to worship is uncalled for and out of line, again, especially from church leadership.

You're making fun of their culture, not their clothes or worship style. Their culture, like their race, cannot be changed. It's what they were born with.
(I believe it was God who made that decision.)

What place does it have?
What good does it serve?
Edify the body of believers.
The world does a great job at tearing us down.
Shouldn’t we be different?
Aren’t we called out to be different?

The lines are much more than blurred at FBCJ. I don’t see the difference at all at FBCJ.
If it’s okay for church leadership to do it, then it’s quite alright for the youth groups to do it too.
Continue the bigotry, all of those little eyes and ears are all watching and listening.

Anonymous said...

Oh geez Tom Rich you really need to grow up.

You are so obssessed with what goes on at FBC that you cannot overcome your compulsion to write about it.

Yes you are obsessive compulsive.

Seems you are the one that owes Dr.Brunson an apology.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Great points F.I.

If the youth are in that service, and they are, and they see a preacher, a preacher who is president of a theological seminary make fun and create jokes of another culture's dress (which is just a STEREOTYPE anyways), and worse than that they see the adults who lead them in the church guffawing and doubled over in laughter, the message is clear: its ok for them to make fun and make jokes of the kids in their Sunday School class.

What makes this particularly sad is that night the elementary kids were in the service, if I'm not mistaken, as that night they received their bible memory awards. So there were hundreds of grade schoolers from grades 1 through 5 to watch Caner's stand up routine.

Not good.

Anonymous said...

anon said: "What did Caner have to say about JESUS?"

Seems that Tommy conveniently left out all others parts of the sermon.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Tommy said the sermon was excellent, as stated in my article.

And I totally agree with Caner's premise that what is important about worship is the substance not the style. His sermon was great, and I hope FBC Jax posts it on their website. But if not, the content is basically the same as that delivered at FBC Fernandina Beach, and they already have it posted on their site.

It was unfortunate that Caner had to go overboard in his comedy routine at FBC Jax making up the first 15 minutes of his sermon and talk about stereotypes that have nothing to do with EITHER substance or style of worship.

And what is even sadder is the reaction from the crowd.

I wonder if Jonathan Falwell, Caner's pastor, would make fun of the dress of blacks in church, or assume that Hispanics yell in church. I don't think so.

But one of the rules of effective public speaking is: Know your audience.

And Caner had THAT nailed at FBC Jax.

Anonymous said...

"Their culture, like their race, cannot be changed. It's what they were born with.
(I believe it was God who made that decision.)"


I STRONGLY DISAGREE. Culture is man-created and developed. Sorry but God didn't create "culture." That is man's own doing.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

That's obvious God doesn't create cultures. I'm sure F.I. means that a person does not decide into what culture they are born.

Anonymous said...

Can't you find something else to do with your time other than follow all of FBC's sermons to find something bad to say? Come on, get over it. Caner was simply making a joke out of it, he wasn't making fun or being racist. You need to lighten up and stop being so uptight about things. Learn to take a joke once in a while.

Rocgollyg said...

Anonymous said..Smyrl is spot-on correct about Obamma supporters voting themselves out of fellowship and that is putting it in pleasant, polite terms. AMEN.

And, he is absolutely correct about Muslims taking over the world.
As a Obama supporter i am so glad to not be a part of your fellowship.
Why there may be alot of Muslims, there are also lots of Babtists,Jews,Catolics Buddists etc...
Does the word tolerance mean anything to you?
Would it be ok if i was maybe a little different than you?
Would the Sun still come up tomorrow the Good Lord willing?
Thats why i think so many here miss the point.
Why it may not offend you, It may offend others.
Even those who share your race or religious beliefs.
Now before you go painting me black or white know this,
Im neither nor.
I am Lakota.
And God Blessed me and made me Lakota.
When it comes to sterotypes, yes we have a few.
However we have learned to ignore those who do not bring us honor.
Indian giver and Savage to name a few.
No i am not like you. Nor shall i ever inspire to be.

Anonymous said...

God seperated the population of the world as they (the world at that time) wanted to all be alike and speak the same language. He confused their language at the Tower of Babel so they would seperate and populate the earth as He intended. That's where we get all our various cultures. So in effect God had a lot to do with it otherwise we would only have one language instead of over 190.

Former FBC Insider said...

God chose the color of your eyes and hair when He created you. He also chose your race, the culture that you would be raised in, the nation you would be raised in, etc... All of these things are indicative of who you are and why you do the things the way you do them. (i.e. worship, dress)

Making fun of what God created is the shady part of all of this. Doing it from the pulpit is a disgrace. Having a good laugh at it is worse.

Condoning poor behavior is status quo at FBCJ. You sure wouldn't want to stand up for what you think is right, or question the behavior of your leadership. Discernment is not taught. Follow the leader is the name of their game.

Anonymous said...

These guys only change worship "styles" for their own purposes. Then if someone complains, they lecture about how insignificant worship styles really are. Yet, if that is so true, why are they ramrodding the changes to the worship style? It does matter and they know it, but they preach and joke about worship styles being nothing to concern ourselves with since substance is all that matters. So leave the worship style alone then and quit preaching about that it is the number one reasons churches split.

My research and experiene says the number one reason a church splits is because of the pastor. His sin, or power struggles involving him, or his changing worship styles without having earned follow-ship... I could go on. Churches split because of pastors, period. And yet they hold the microphone and the Bible in their hands and blame it on the sheep they supposedly were called to pastor.

Anonymous said...

What is Jimmy Smyrl going to say to Pastor McKissick when he presents the resolution regarding Obama, and to Johnny Hunt about supporting it? Will Jim be a coward and say nothing? Or will he be a hypocrite and support the resolution? Or will he "vote himself, McKissick and Hunt out of fellowship" like he wrote earlier this year.

I sure hope the Watchdog holds Jim accountable for his learned words he writes so all can see what a FOOL Jim is! (Spare me the biblical warning about calling people fools. I have considered that and in my opinion, based on Jim's writings...there is no other word so descriptive and accurate.)

Anonymous said...

Aren't you defenders of Mac and Smyrl and Maurilio and nepotism, and huge salaries, and world cruises, and name calling and discipline committees and sham criminal investigations, and subpoenas and deacon resolutions, and fund-raisers, getting T-I-R-E-D of defending your church?

At what point will YOU say enough is enough? Then you can stop reading the watchdog and telling him to move on, because then YOU will have actually moved on.

The church has become a joke, and nothing more than the social club Lindsey always feared it would become. I pity the young people who will grow up thinking this is what real church is all about. No wonder so many of them leave once they move out on their own. They know this stuff is not real and they have better things to do with their lives. We better wake up before its too late and we lose the next generation.

Richard said...

Anon 1:38PM – Good and true statement. I challenge anyone to give an instance where the fellowship was responsible for the fall of the church.

As I’ve stated before, I’m a Presbyterian. In the church I grew up in we had a magnificent minister who was with us for many years. He was called to a smaller church far away, and another minister came in. The words he spoke were the same, but the style was HORRIBLE. Ok, that was bad enough. We could swallow that. The irony of this story is that, he too decided he wanted to convert the childrens Sunday School classrooms into a suite of offices. This was only six or seven years after a beautiful new sanctuary and office suite was constructed, and it was also during a recessionary time as we are in today when it was difficult for people to give. The elders and deacons were indignant – there was absolutely NO need. The minister was insistent.

As it was so long ago, some of the details escape me. End of story is that members left in droves and at one point membership was down to 88 people. Our family resigned and went back to the church my father grew up in and the one I was baptized in. It was at least a 40 mile round trip to church each Sunday morning as opposed to 3 miles, but my family is STILL members there and we are into our fifth generation.

The minister got his new suite of offices and soon thereafter left and moved elsewhere, leaving what was once a thriving congregation and a beautiful church building in a shambles. It NEVER recovered although it still exists.

Just like the buildings at FBCJ will still exist when the Brunson regime decimates the fellowship, blames THEM for it, and then moves on.

Anonymous said...

YOU ARE NOW SHOWING YOUR IRRELEVANCE IN MATTERS REGARDING FBCJ.

Richard said...

WD, if I was more savvy with HTML I would make this into a direct link. The New BBC Open Forum moderator posted this today (12:23 AM, June 19, 2009) on his thread dated June 14th. It is a clip from the television comedy King of the Hill; the episode was entitled, “Church Hopping.”

It is hilarious! Poor Hank Hill. Dr. Caner must have watched it just prior to giving his sermon on style.

http://www.christianclips.com/videos/entertainment/King_of_the_Hill_Church

Former FBC Insider said...

How so?
Please tell us.

Richard said...

Anon 2:51PM: Please take another sip of kool aid and explain your statement. It makes no sense.

Anonymous said...

3:02 and 3:07. Do not look for an answer. These types just blow smoke. Kinda like the Dem's still blaming Bush for ALL THAT THEY HAVE DONE.

happy gram said...

anonymous 11:24

and you don't think baptists brainwash?

Anonymous said...

watch puppy, they say jealousy is a terrible thing...what, are you mad because you got kicked out of fbc... let me guess former fbcjax insider is bob barton... just think about that doctor that was just killed, he has to answer to God for all of those abortions he conducted... you gonna have to answer to God for all of your blasphemy

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Wow Anon, you hit the trifecta

Wrong, not jealous.

Wrong, F.I. is not Barton

You equate the "sin" of this blog
to that of late term abortion.

Good job anon.

I have your IP address, just might have to call JSO on this one, since that seems like a threat. Zealots like you who probably would like to see happen to me what happened to the abortionist.

Are you predicting that will happen to me, or you would like to do that to me, or maybe you pray impracatory (sp?) prayers that it will happen to me?

You're sick, and you need help.

I'm serious.

Anonymous said...

From Anon - No, you have it wrong. That's not what I am trying to say. My words are not a threat. What I'm trying to say is that our actions reflect on God's kingdom and that everyone will one day answer to God for their actions. We need to pray diligently that our actions contribute to God's will for our life.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

We'll let JSO decide, buddy. They have a pretty low threshold, I'm told, as to what might be worthy of an investigation when it comes to Internet threats. Mentioning the murdered abortionist, myself, and Barton, and answering to God, in the same post, sounds pretty threatening. But I'm not a law enforcement expert.

Have a great weekend.

Former FBC Insider said...

I'll accept that as a compliment.
Thank you.

Former FBC Insider said...

Details of the "Mission" trip are now posted on FBCjax website,
itinerary, costs, etc.
No mention of the vino.

http://www.fbcjax.com/danube/

Richard said...

WD, some of these posts just amaze me.

Anon 9:01PM was apparently chugging the kool aid as he posted his comment. His statements could easily be construed as a threat, certainly a much bigger threat that "stealing mail" and photographing some mega pastor's wife. Already documented is the fact that you wanted to remain anonymous in your blogging partly out of fear of retribution. You won't have to fabricate a story to create the illusion of legitimacy. It's all there in black and white.

I think you SHOULD file a police report. Isn't that the Christian way to act in situations like this? Mac thinks so. Soud thought so. Blount and a few others thought so.

You can ask the investigator, in Blount's exact words, "Is there the ability to find out where this is coming from?"

Since this blog contains religious overtones, the investigation would be, according to the JSO, assigned to one Robert Hinson. If history repeats itself and the JSO follows their self-proclaimed procedures, you should have the name of the anonymous poster in no more than 90 days. Just don't destroy your records. Since you are at it, add to the complaint that YOU think someone is stealing YOUR mail and you have all ideas that someone has been secretly photographing your wife as she goes through her daily activities. You think this anonymous poster has something to do with it. That should get you farther than an actual death threat.

OUT HIM! SHUT HIM DOWN! You could legitimately call him a sociopath and mentally unstable and not be slandering. Soon his name will be known to all FBC members that this individual is among them. They can issue a trespass warning to this individual to keep him off campus so as not to be a threat to the other members. He can be called before the "discipline committee" for conduct unbecoming a Christian. Threatening murder won't be the subject of the discipline but reading Watchdog's blog is the ultimate sin. Beauty shop gossip!

Do I actually think the JSO will afford you the same courtesies and services that were provided for FBC for the very same thing? I can just see Robert Hinson coming to your front door to discuss the results of his investigation. Official business of his JOB. FAT CHANCE!

I'm going to leave Angela Corey and the SAO out of this one. She was handed a plate of serpents on a silver platter when she inherited the position of State Attorney from Harry Shorstein. I want to give her a fair shake. However, Sheriff Rutherford stated HIMSELF that Detective Hinson followed procedure. Would procedure be similarly followed in your complaint? FAT CHANCE.

Richard said...

FBCI 10:22AM ... not only is there no mention of the vino, but there is no mention of any sort of mission. It is quite obvious from the itinerary that this is nothing more than an expensive vacation for the "haves" (as opposed to the "have-nots") and a chance to hobnob with someone who thinks he is closer to God than any of you. Amazing.

Ah, but those Egyptian linens ....

Anonymous said...

... just think about that doctor that was just killed, he has to answer to God for all of those abortions he conducted... you gonna have to answer to God for all of your blasphemy

June 19, 2009 9:01 PM

I agree. That sounds like a threat and you are now a public figure in this venue, Tom. There are people out there at FBCJax that hate you.

He actually sounds like he is glad the doctor was murdered and it was justified. And he is putting you in the same category as an abortion doctor that he thinks deserved to be murdered.

I would be checking his ISP, too.

Anonymous said...

If you ask me, the JSO is now responsible for your safety.

Some of these "Christians" are scary. Why would they even think of murdered abortion doctors in the same breath as a blogger they do not like?

Anonymous said...

A quote by Warren Wiersbe that will never be forgotten was at the FBCJ Pastor's Conference. He was relating a story how a pastor was teasing him about his hair. The quote he gave has stuck with me ever since. His quote:

"Humor at the expense of another is less than Christian!"

Poor in Jax said...

Dr Caners Bio on the Liberty site states he was born in 1979 and became a Christian in 1982. Im no Einstien but I count four years. I was listening to the sermon he gave yesterday from the link gave on this site. In the sermon he states he was saved while in high school and makes refrence to carrying a Koran. So i guess my question is why he was carrying a Koran if he was a Christian since the age of four? Not trying to pick on him, Just a question. Did anyone else catch this?

Thy Peace said...

Off Topic:

Book review and posts of Christa's book, This Little Light:

THIS LITTLE LIGHT.

Stop Baptist Predators > This Little Light.

Stop Baptist Predators > Harsh words make my point.

Amazon.

Barnes and Noble.

ABP News > Book says SBC lacks system of preventing sexual abuse.
The above was also reposted here, and here.

GOOD HARD WORKING PEOPLE > Book Recommendation: "This Little Light".

Christian School Confidential > This Little Light by Christa Brown.

BECAUSE IT MATTERS ~ FREEDOM IN CHRISTIANITY [Dani Moss] > The Invisible Holocaust in Our Church.

BECAUSE IT MATTERS ~ FREEDOM IN CHRISTIANITY [Dani Moss] > The Church Holocaust Through One Person’s Eyes.

DEEP THOUGHTS [MOJOEY] > This Little Light, by Christa Brown.

DEEP THOUGHTS [MOJOEY] > Review: This Little Light.

The Fighting Fundamental Forums > THIS LITTLE LIGHT: Beyond a Baptist Preacher Predator and His Gang --BASS's review.

Spiritual Samurai > Christa Brown’s New Book.

Anonymous said...

I am sure if Hinson were honest, he would tell you that he is downtown protecting the pastor from nut job Christians who are members, not so much from outside secular threats. The church knows this. That is why they outted you. They probably believe (and hope) it is just a matter of time until one of the good old boys decides he is honoring his pastor and honoring Christ by harming the WD and his family. "Shutting you down" so to speak. Defending the Lord, so to speak. And you know what, it wouldn't surprise me if Mac praised the Lord and did his famous "hah! from the pulpit if one of the members were to hurt the WD and his wife.) I wonder if Mac said HAH! to the abortion doctor's murder when he heard it?

All it would take is a quick press release from the JSO , SAO and FBC saying no wrongdoing by any of them.

Be careful out there WD. Mac knows enough to hire Hinson to protect himself from these fanatics. You don't have that luxury, or the gated community.

Of course if anything happens to you, the church and its words and actions in inciting such action will be closely scrutinized and I'm sure they would face legal action.

Nothing bad better happen to the blogger or the whole world will assume, rightly or wrongly, FBC Jax orchestrated it. Fanatical, kool-aid drinking crhistians are scary!

Former FBC Insider said...

Okay, help me out here Tom... After reviewing the details of the trip on the FBCJ website, things are just not adding up. Like the number of cabins is only 79. Let's say there are 2 in each cabin, that's only 158 people that can cruise with the Big Mac. What about all the other members? Last count I saw there were approximately 26,000 members, and average attendance weekly is around 5,000 - 6,000, and some of those are repeats. What about them?

When planning major trips for my department of around 400, we had to start with a venue that could accomodate the number we expected to attend. This guy is starting out this planning for only 158? So that tells me a couple of things... either he knows only 158 or so can afford the trip, or he only thinks there are 158 or so worthy to go on the trip with him, or he has already hand picked these people to go on the cruise. I don't get it. Why take a Church Cruise, which it is, that can only accomodate a handful out of your membership? What is the thinking behind this?

Hey Richard the Bean Counter, help me with the math here. Is it only 0.03% that is allowed to go?

Tom, I didn't see any scholarship applications, did you?

Richard said...

FFBCI .... If you base your number on the total membership of approximately 26,000 it would be less than THAT ... 0.006.

The numbers that got me were the membership and attendance numbers. Assuming those numbers are anywhere close to correct, less than 25% of the membership attends church services. Not good.

OH ... and we only got 78 cabins to sell ... I'm sure Mac and Mrs will have the most palatial suite and not have to pay a dime for it.

What's the mission here?

Richard said...

More beans ...

Numbers to think about:

572,000 - Number of "giving units" attending services at FBC in the past two years, assuming 5,500 average (between 5,000 and 6,000.) Budget of $24,000,000 during this time (based on an income of $1M a month per an earlier post.)

302,717 - Number of hits on WD's blog since it's inception (just under two years ago.) This number is as of 4:45 on Saturday, June 20th according to the website. Budget of $0.

Number of souls "saved" at FBC in the past two years? Depends on who you talk to.

Number of souls "saved" by reading WD's blog? More than one might imagine.

Richard said...

Beans again

On WD's post about this Danube Cruise, I grossly underestimated the number of people who might go. So let me rework those numbers and post them here.

We now know that there are 79 rooms available. Assuming that the listed prices are for double occupancy, that would mean 158 people. However, I have personally been on a cruise where I was in a cabin that could sleep FOUR, so again this number is subject to go HIGHER if that factors in. Let's take the 158 number and run with it. If one goes to the Uniworld website as instructed, you will find that there is also an "Owners Suite," conveniently not listed as available. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that's where the Brunsons will be.

1. There are 14 "Suites" available at $3,599 per person. Total amount - $50,386.00.

2. There are 17 Category 1 Rooms available at $3,074. Total amount - $52,258.00.

3. There are 25 Category 2 Rooms available at $2,874. Total amount - $71,850.00.

4. There are 10 Category 3 Rooms available at $2,674. Total amount - $26,740.00.

5. There are 8 Category 4 Rooms available at $2,374. Total amount - $18,992.00.

6. There are 5 Category 5 Rooms available at $2,199. Total amount - $10,995.00.

Excluding the Brunson Suite and assuming all rooms will be booked at double occupancy, the cruise tickets alone total $231,221.00. THAT ALONE IS NEARLY A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS!

Let's continue. They still insist airfare is only $990 (since it was an ESTIMATE, why couldn't they have rounded it out to $1,000? Kinda like pricing a used car at $990 instead of $1,000. I will stand by my theory that very few of these people will fly across the Atlantic in the cheap seats (ESPECIALLY the Brunsons.) For the sake of argument, I will come off my original $1,800 estimate per person and say $1,600 per person for 158 people. Total amount - $252,800.00 THAT IS IN EXCESS OF A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS! And this figure does NOT include the Brunsons airfare, WHOEVER pays for it!

Discretionary Spending - since I had to come down on my airfare estimate begrudgingly I increased that amount to $1,200 per person. Total amount - $189,600.00. This does not include "love offerings" that may be collected for the Brunsons along the way. People with more money than sense do this kind of thing. I still think this is a conservative amount. The USD doesn't go far in Europe.

Port Charges and Medical Insurance (per application) total $143 per person for a total of $22,594, again exclusive of the Brunsons.

GRAND TOTAL SO FAR - $750,725.00 is the cost to cruise up and down the Danube and undoubtedly is subject to increase. IN EXCESS OF THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS!

Richard said...

Interesting Miscellaneous Observations:

Not ONCE on the itinerary was the name Jesus mentioned. It alludes to "local entertainment and insightful lectures."

"Wireless Internet Access ..." At the end of the day, everyone can retire to their stateroom, slip into their Egyptian cotton robes and check up on WD's blog.

There is no website nor no telephone number listed for a Purpose Travel in Irving, TX. The phone number provided is a cell phone registered in Grand Prairie, TX. Does anyone know who this Bruce Peterson is?

On the itinerary and the application, it clearly states that Mac and Debbie Brunson are the HOSTS and clearly leads one to believe that it is SPONSORED by FBCJ. This in mind, why is money being sent to Texas?

On the application form, you are asked for your credit card information, up to and including the security code and an additional 2% cc fee. Then they tell you to MAIL this information to some dude in Texas with no business address and only a cell phone. Now THAT is stupid in this day and age!

Again I ask ... what is the mission?

Anonymous said...

Former FBC Insider:

One has to realize it takes time for some of these pastors to build up a crowd. Cultivate the Haves. when taking a cruise, one preacher rents out the complete ship. Prices range from around $1800 per room to $4800 for two adults. The staterooms going for $4800 are already filled. When you do the math on these excursions it probably is close to a million dollars or more. Just a guess. Many times celebrity entertainers are onboard as well as an additional preacher. There are several preachers that have been on the voyage bandwagon. Some, have been doing these trips for many years and have built up a reputation second to none. Some know more Haves. One other additional factor to consider is that the bars and slot machines are closed during the entire trip. Which is a good thing. There are some good preachers on these "get togethers" which is probably why a number of individuals attend, as it gives them the chance to experience something that last far more than say just attending church services. I think it a blessing that those that can afford to,(Haves), do go on these trips. Its really sad that many others cannot afford it or cannot get away to attend such events. As they are trying to hold on to a job, or pay medical bills and buy food for children. Many do good just to tithe, to make sure the preachers have a job. I would suggest it takes many years for anyone to be able to rent an entire ship the size of some of these. It is also a nice time to enjoy some much needed rest from a busy schedule for men like these celebrity preachers. Who must spend time cultivating Haves. A job in itself.

What would be great is for some of these men to own and have their ministry just on a large ship. Then as owners of the vessel they could do this ten months or so, out of the year and their entire congregations would be able to attend as scholarships could be made available by those thousands that could afford it passing the savings onto those that could not afford it. Sort of like shifting the economy from those that have, to those that have not great wealth. And if your congregation was made up of just Haves, those willing could stay afloat year round. They could also get tax breaks for cruising. Also, today would be an excellent time for purchasing some of these vessels for pennies on the dollar. As the economy is in a meltdown, and, as we know, standards of wealth, like cruises must be maintained. Maybe, and just maybe, our government could lend a hand in guaranteeing payment of the vessels in case of any further slide downward in the economy. You know, TARP bailouts for preachers. Maybe even lost Haves could also go on some of these cruises and see how Christians enjoy themselves. As going witnessing doesn't work anymore, because no one is home. Probably because they are cruising. Just thinking.

Anonymous said...

"What would be great is for some of these men to own and have their ministry just on a large ship. "

The haves are already looking into Hospital ships in international waters when we go complete socialized medicine so they do not have to wait for a cat scan or bypass like the peasants will have to do.

By the way, anyone ever heard of Dehoney Travel? This (now deceased) SBC preacher in KY made a ton of money in 'Christian' travel trips. It started out as Holy Land trips complete with a baptism in the Jordon to Glacier cruises in Alaska and anything else you can think of. The travel agency is his legacy.

Wonder if Mac gets a cut from this Irving, Tx group. He could easily run it through his para church org. Oops wait, he would have to report that income and it would be public on Navigator as a 501c3. Churches are exempt from public reporting.

Richard said...

"....TARP bailouts for preachers"

ROTFL

shhhh ... don't give em any more ideas!

Anonymous said...

I don't know. Is it just me, or does a "mission" trip booked from a website called "uniworld" bother anyone else?

Richard said...

I guess renting out the whole ship is the only way to avoid getting grouped with some Hispanic Catholic nuns or some wealthy Muslims on a vacation trip.

Is the QEII for sale? I can see it now. Mac in the pulpit asking for money to buy a boat for a cruise mission. Gotta reach those lost souls on the high seas!

Former FBC Insider said...

Thanks to Richard the Bean Counter and "Others".

I can see clearly now!

Richard said...

I've just read Christa Brown's new topic on her blog posted today entitled, "Greatness and Smallness."

A regular poster on the blog, "gmommy" said, ".... For now, when I go to church, I go to a small, quiet Presbyterian church. It is very traditional. They have 2 pastors and both are very kind to me. Neither are "rock star" preachers but the main guy especially, is incredibly humble ... even on the shy side. NOTHING is about the man in the pulpit ... nothing. No one sweats or screams or runs around like they are angry. The Bible is taught and not like...let’s pick a subject ... "You are stealing from God if you don't tithe" and then 15 verses from all over the Bible read out of context just to make their point.

They definitely deal with sin but they don't pick their favorite sins to rant about. Repentance is always a theme (and not just so you won't burn in hell), the love and character of Christ, and relationship with Christ ... adoration for Him...not the "pastor" or programs! I'm sure it's not a perfect church ..."


I’ve said before I was a Presbyterian. It makes my heart feel good that this gmommy, whoever she may be, found peace in a Presbyterian church. This is the kind of church I grew up in and have always known. The ministers knew their entire congregations PERSONALLY, not through some brainwashed henchman. They presided at EVERY worship service with few exceptions, every baptism, every funeral … in our church the congregation bought a nice parsonage for the minister to live in at no cost. They were nice homes albeit FAR from flashy expensive. They lived amongst their parishioners, not behind the fence of some gated community for the elite.

For those who have already assumed two things, let me assure you that (1) if you think I quoted that out of context, I invite you to read Christa’s blog and the entirety of gmommy’s post and (2) I am NOT blogging in here trying to convert Baptists into Presbyterians.

Anonymous said...

Presbyterian of 8:20.......This is the kind of church we had until recently.

Thy Peace said...

Here is gmommy's comment, from Christa Brown's latest post.

Richard said...

Thanks for the help Thy Peace ... I need lessons in HTML and I wouldn't have to be so verbose. It was a very good article written by Christa and what I considered a very profound comment(s) by gmommy.

Former FBC Insider said...

For Father's Day Big Mac had Bob Tebow and the boys as guest speakers. I'm sure they were wonderful. I can give you a report later.

I'm wondering if Bob Tebow has begun to size this thing up yet. For those of you who don't know, he is a Missionary to the Phillipines. He trains young people "hands on" in his field with great life experiences. He has fewer and fewer FBCJ young people going on his mission trips to the Philippines every year. The kids have to raise their own money to go for 2 weeks, working 10 hour days. That's a REAL mission trip, very much worth the money to go. The money they raise pays for plane fare, and minimal lodging and food. The work done there is extremely Kingdom worthy.

If Big Mac would donate from HIS funds or from FBCJ's funds to help these kids have this opportunity to actually go on a REAL mission trip instead of 'hosting' a luxurious cruise down the Danube River, I think Tebow's enlistment would double, if not triple.

There are some good kids there at FBCJ that want to do the right thing. Money is an obstacle for so many. So, WHY won't Big Mac do the right thing? WHY won't he ditch the vacation cruise and donate to his own youth group so that some GOOD can be done in the name of Jesus instead of Big Mac having a nice vacation in the name of Jesus?

I DON'T GET IT!!

Oh, and Happy Father's Day Tom. You are a great role model for your children. You're teaching some great "hands on" life lessons as well.

Arce said...

The cruise prices and air fares are per person, not per room. Generally assumed to mean double occupancy -- 2 people to the room or suite.

Richard said...

Arce, I used the double occupancy and per person numbers in my calculations above.

FFBCI, if I have truly been able to shed some light it makes my joining this blog all worthwhile. I don't know Bob Tebow any more than I believe he is the father of Tim. Go Gators! Can you begin to imagine what kind of work he could do with a budget of three quarters of a million dollars? What would it mean to the kids who would like to go if they were told there would be no cost to them? Their church was paying for it. Airfare to the Philippines is probably a tad more expensive than Europe, but look at the immense savings as far as accommodations go. I can't even say it is a good idea for these kids to make a mission of saving enough money in order to go as you and I both know most of any money any kid comes up with for this mission trip is squeezed out of Mom and Dad just like Mac squeezes them out of it on Sundays and various and sundry other causes squeeze it out of them on other days. "Kids, let's see how much more money we can squeeze out of Mom and Dad." Some lesson.

I was not there to hear what Mr. Tebow said. I know nothing more of it than your mention of it in your earlier post. I can betcha by golly though that he wasn't paid to do it.

Richard said...

”When longtime dictator Omar Bongo (of Gabon) died last week, he left behind at least 66 bank accounts. The first family owned 45 homes in France, including at least 14 in Paris and 11 on the French Riviera. And they boasted of 19 or more luxury cars, including a Bugatti sports model that cost the Republic of Gabon $1.5 million.

But most of the country Bongo governed for 41 years is still covered in jungle. A third of its people live in poverty so dire that some dig through the trash dump to feed their children.

The contrast makes it all the more striking that hundreds of thousands of those people lined the streets of the capital this week to bid goodbye to the 73-year-old ruler who bled their country dry. Women wept and waved signs that said, "Merci Papa" — thank you, father. Businesses put up billboards with messages of loss, such as: "Gabon weeps."
On a continent that has seen more than its share of presidents-turned-dictators, Gabon is perhaps one of the best examples of what analysts call "the chief complex." So long was Bongo in power that his countrymen came to view him as a hereditary chief, a man whose authority is unquestioned.”


Does anyone other than me see any parallels here?

Complete article:

http://wire.jacksonville.com/pstories/us/20090621/452997728.shtml

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised that you don't have something on here whining about Mac preaching at the Pastor's Conference of the SBC tonight. Hopefully he will have some thoughts and/or comments about you in his message. A nice topic for him to preach would be "How To Deal With Disgruntled, Discontented, and Ding Bat Church Members With Blogs."

Anonymous said...

Don't get too excited about Mac preaching at the PC. Here in Louisville, the scuttlebut is 'what are they thinking'?

But it is no different than we they gave Dr. Financial Gaines a bunch of speaking engagments after his protecting a pedophile minister of prayer. he was speaking at SWBTS chapel and other venues. He spoke at my state convention and 2/3 of the audience stood up and walked out.

This PC deal was decided a while back but keep in mind his mentor, Patterson, will buck him up and promote him as much as possible. he needs to. Patterson owes them. Debbie has been doing her part on the IMB Board trying to rid us of Rankin.

When are you folks going to wake up and realize the SBC is dead? The Holy Spirit left long ago. There might be isolated spiritual Christians buried in our churches across the country but the convention is dead. Even the way we do missions is dead. We are doing little than converting what they call 'rice' Christians.

Seriously, folks, If a guy like Patterson (with an list a mile long of questionable ethical practices) can survive in the SBC and be promoted over and over. We are dead. And he is just ONE example.

There is a huge underground fight in the SBC over Landmarkism and Calvinism. That fight is a natural outgrowth of winning the CR. The victors always turn on each other in a political fight. And the CR was a poltical fight. Of course they made the peasants believe it was about inerrancy but with guys like Patterson being promoted, we know that cannot be true. With guys like Gaines and Brunson ignoring scripture, they want us to believe that? Well, it did not work.

They got power but it is not of the Holy Spirit. It is of the man centered kind.

Run while you can. Before your kids are infected.

Anonymous said...

I am beginning to thing that Mac and Deb have no conscience.

Anonymous said...

I am beginning to thing that Mac and Deb have no conscience.

June 21, 2009 8:10 PM

Bingo. It has been seared over years and years of climbing the professional Christian ladder of success.

They are able to relate their personal success with spiritual 'success'. They really do think that highly of themselves. But they are not alone. There are tons like them in ministry. They cannot see clearly. They are the blind leading the blind.

Anonymous said...

Well, we all know PP has no conscience. Can you still call yourself a follower of Christ and have no conscience? He may claim to have one, but I couldn't begin to understand how he is able to sleep at night.

Doug said...

To: Anon June 21, 2009 7:43 PM
I'm surprised that you don't have something on here whining about Mac preaching at the Pastor's Conference of the SBC tonight. Hopefully he will have some thoughts and/or comments about you in his message. A nice topic for him to preach would be "How To Deal With Disgruntled, Discontented, and Ding Bat Church Members With Blogs."

Just go back to your sand pile and bury you head while we will continue to expose those within "the Baptist Mafia".

It has only just begun! We bloggers stand up for Christ Kingdom while people like you make a Mockery of Christ teachings and life.

These men think they are above reproach but - our new motto is
Purify the Church and preach these decievers within the National and State Baptist Conventions!

Our message;

" Mafia in the Pulpits "

Thy Peace said...

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I watched the Brunson sermon, and what a sad sight. The hypocrisy of his message, screaming at people in how to treat other Christians was shocking. I hope the pastors could see through his shallowness and anger. How a guy who last year issued trespass papers against myself and my wife with never speaking to us, and to lie to his community in the newspaper that I'm mentally ill - and to have the audacity to lecture the pastors on how THEY should behave when attacked, that they should not return evil for evil...it truly is a sad sight. The contrast between Brunson and the other two speakers, Greear and Colson was amazing.
Sun Jun 21, 10:04:00 PM 2009

Anonymous said...

Anyone have a link to Brunson's sermon at the PC?

Anonymous said...

Thy Peace will hook us up.

Thy Peace said...

Wade's Blog > Thoughts on Sunday Night Pastor's Conference.

Mac Brunson followed J.D. Greear and preached a message from I Peter. His theme was on how the people in Christ's church should love one another and treat each other with grace, civility and love - so that the world will see how we treat one another and glorify God. Mac is a great communicator and I enjoy listening to him. He is faithful to the text, which is more than can be said of many preachers. However, I couldn't help but have two thoughts reverberate in my head as Mac preached on Christian civility and love - (1). Why is he yelling so loud? Usually, loud preaching is not bothersome, but there seemed to be a disconnect between a preacher talking about Christian civility and love while yelling at the people who he says (those of us in the congregation) who aren't showing it, and (2). I wonder what Mac's church member - the one who criticized Mac on his blog and then was issued a trespass warning without ever being personally contacted by Mac - was thinking?

I didn't have to wonder long because as soon as the message was over I received a text message from that church member. He let me know what he thought of the message -and I discovered that he was thinking what I thought he must be thinking.
...
If you would like to watch Monday's Pastor's Conference, you can watch the live feed here.

Anonymous said...

Keep praying Tom. The Lord knows all about these people. My prayers are with you and your family.

Anonymous said...

So I guess it is all in "who you know" to get the nod to be a speaker at the conference. For instance, did anyone catch that Barry Chesney is a speaker? Who's Barry Chesney? Married to Mac's daughter.

As I recall, he's either still in Seminary or fresh out. What in the world would he have to say that the fat cats would want or need to hear?

Just goes ta show, bro.

Anonymous said...

So I guess it is all in "who you know" to get the nod to be a speaker at the conference. For instance, did anyone catch that Barry Chesney is a speaker? Who's Barry Chesney? Married to Mac's daughter.

As I recall, he's either still in Seminary or fresh out. What in the world would he have to say that the fat cats would want or need to hear?

Just goes ta show, bro.

Anonymous said...

Me too, WD the Whistleblower. You have more people behind you than you can begin to guess at. We pray for you, we support you and we THANK you.

Thy Peace said...

I am uanble to find the taped segment of Pastor Mac's sermon. I am hoping WD taped it or can provide a link, if an archive is available.

Richard said...

Slightly off topic here, but ...

For those who might get a bit of satisfaction out of this, you can go to:

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInmates/search.asp

State of Florida Department of Corrections Inmate Population Search. Type Darrell Gilyard’s name in there and you can see his new mug shot.

Anonymous said...

FBCJax has officially become a travel agency. Instead of taking the Danube River Cruise I believe that whatever the cruise costs for the cheapest cabin I will send my tithe for that amount to an actual mission that preaches Jesus and sees people saved.

Anonymous said...

Each session will be posted and can be accessed at anytime. All three sermons will probably be posted tomorrow but maybe, now that I think about it, only the actual convention sessions will be available. I believe that the sale of tapes at the PC has traditionally been a big source of revenue for the organization.

Thy Peace said...

You can read Pastor Wade thoughts about the Pastor's Conference today:

Wade's Blog > Thoughts on Sunday Night Pastor's Conference.

Elisabeth said...

I live in the Tucson area. At one of the larger SBC churches in Tucson:
1. The music minister had a few times commented about how he had gone to black churches sometimes and how he just absolutely, positively loved their worship.
2. A nationally known hispanic singer and guitar player went to church there for quite awhile. He would often play his guitar and sing in Spanish for the congregation. Almost everyone loved it, even those of us who don't speak Spanish!
How different is that?

Anonymous said...

WHAT, no nasty comments about Bob Tebow and family's speaking at the Sunday Morning service?

Anonymous said...

Ok I just heard a clip this morning of Mac's "speech" on our local radio station. The man was SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER. Matter of fact, he was screaming so loud, I had to turn the radio down.

What was he screaming about? The fact that SBC membership is down, baptistms are down and maybe "it's because they just don't like us (screaming)!!!"

YEP. He sure got that right.

Anonymous said...

Ok I just heard a clip this morning of Mac's "speech" on our local radio station. The man was SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER. Matter of fact, he was screaming so loud, I had to turn the radio down.

What was he screaming about? The fact that SBC membership is down, baptistms are down and maybe "it's because they just don't like us (screaming)!!!"

YEP. He sure got that right.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:28..Why are you looking for something to critcize?

Thy Peace said...

Off Topic:

This Little Light - Book and Reviews.

Christa Brown said...
I'm reposting below a prior comment by Jeri:

"... You know, friends, the more people who post reviews on Amazon, the more prominently Amazon will display the book in searches for things like "Baptist Books" (believe it or not!), religion, clergy issues, etc.

Amazon does its rankings based on daily sales, so a brand new book that sells 10 copies in one day actually shoots to the top of their smaller charts (like religion). And reviews also add points to the ratings, as do comments on reviews.

If you are shy about writing in such a large venue, you can always stay simple: identify your reason for reading the book (I'm a Christian; I've been following clergy abuse stories; or I'm a survivor of clergy abuse, etc) and then a single statement of your reaction. (This book helped me understand the situation. Or, I had no idea the problem was this serious. Or, This book made me feel like I have not suffered alone, etc.

By contributing reviews and comments on reviews, you help to keep the book prominent."

Thanks to any of you who are able to post just a few sentences about my book on the Amazon or Barnes & Noble sites. It really helps!
June 22, 2009 8:10 AM
.
-----------------------------------
Christa Brown said...
Many thanks to those of you who contributed comments to the Associated Baptist Press article about my book. It's up to 93 today, and still counting. I think that's way more than ANY other ABP article has ever garnered.

To this day, the ABP is still running that article as a lead-story-slider at the top of its home page. I believe the many comments are what have helped to keep the story in a highly-visible place on the site, and particularly with the Southern Baptist Convention starting tomorrow, your comments help.
June 22, 2009 8:24 AM
.
-----------------------------------

Anonymous said...

Below is a comment from a post taken from The Wartburg Watch. It may shed some light for Mac and the other Fat Boys (and their wives) about why the SBC is not liked:


"So goes the leadership, so goes the followers. These men in the S B C are now reaping what they have sown for decades.

I can not believe the hate coming from the pulpits of Baptist now. If it were not for the Sr Adults, who follow these men only because they are old and fear that if they do or say anything against one of these deceivers, when they pass on they honestly think God will not allow them into heaven, the Baptist church would be empty and falter. They preach them "scared".

I know, I have heard it for myself"

Richard said...

Minister Gets Jail For Stealing Flock's Identities

”A Baptist minister in central Pennsylvania has been sentenced to one year in jail for stealing the identities of his church members.

Raymond Clayton Sr., 44, was also ordered to pay more than $28,000 in restitution at his sentencing Wednesday. Clayton is the former pastor of Grace Fellowship Church near Mount Carmel.

Federal prosecutors said Clayton used parishioners' personal information to obtain credit cards between November 2006 and April 2007. He pleaded guilty in March to access device fraud.

The church has since disbanded.”


Link to news article:

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/news-article.aspx?storyid=116453

Now let’s all send our credit card information, INCLUDING THE SECRET CODE, to some dude in Texas with a cell phone.

Wake up people!

Anonymous said...

"Now let’s all send our credit card information, INCLUDING THE SECRET CODE, to some dude in Texas with a cell phone."

VERY good point, Richard. Amen.

Richard said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Its really pitiful what churches are doing today to hide or coverup their handling of so called spiritual matters. If you take exception to the leaders you are "no good" and need to leave. Notice what is going on inside Iran...stop the dissenters at all costs. Shut down the newspapers, the radio, the tv, and especially reporters who see whats going on. Sort of like a watchdog...but you know it doesn't work that way. The truth will always come out one way or the other. Then who will have egg on their faces?

Anonymous said...

I have been following this via the news and I am glad you are suing the church. FBC is not a church that Jesus smiles upon, especially after I found out about how they are towards the homeless. FBC needs to stop getting involved with the government, and get back to the Bible.

Richard said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

"First Baptist Blogger" suing church

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/First-Baptist-Blogger-suing-church/Bhn6VtOPrkmKhYGsJVtVBQ.cspx

Richard said...

YOU GO TOM !!!! Brunson, Blount, Hinson et al are probably all in Kentucky today messin their pants!

Thy Peace said...

Action News Jax > "First Baptist Blogger" suing church.
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The attorney for the so-called "First Baptist Blogger" sent a letter to the church notifying his intent to sue.

Arce said...

Associated Baptist Press is independent of the SBC and is operated in conjunction with the Texas Baptist Standard, which is a Baptist General Convention of Texas (BGCT) entity. The BGCT has churches that are SBC, some are CBF, and some dually alligned; the BGCT itself is independent! There is also a SBC aligned convention called the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention.

The ABP site is keeping the article about Christa's book in the forefront when it would otherwise have disappeared due to time. All comments, except the one by one person who posted while the directing post was being posted, are on the referred site and comments were being accepted earlier today.

Anonymous said...

The reason churches are failing is that they have left their first love. The leaders don't love the Word of God...they pretend that they do holding up the Bible claiming it is innerrant and then in the next breath tell you that a better translation is....or a Greek word fits better, etc,etc. They also don't love the people as the pastors of long ago did. Its all about money,money, money and power today. The cutting edge, the program, the brand, the marketing, etc. God is on the outside of most churches. That is why Jesus is on the outside knocking...the leadership cannot allow Him in as that would lessen their significance. The leaders are in charge, not God, not Jesus, and not the Holy Spirit. Sad to say, but the Church of the past is GONE. If you cannot see that you are blind, just like the blind that lead the blind today.

Junkster said...

Watchdog,
How about a new post with some info on your new suit agaist FBCJax(whatever you can legally and apprioriately share)?

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

"The reason churches are failing is that they have left their first love."

" The leaders don't love the Word of God...they pretend that they do "

" They also don't love the people as the pastors of long ago did. Its all about money,money, money and power today."

" The leaders are in charge, not God, not Jesus, and not the Holy Spirit. Sad to say, but the Church of the past is GONE. "

"

June 22, 2009 10:10 PM

Anon "AMEN","AMEN" and "AMEN" again!!!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Any of this sound familiar?

Former FBC Insider said...

Thanks BBC!
What a fantastic post.
It might as well have had Mad Mac's name all over it.
Sounded like his memoirs!

Former FBC Insider said...

There is an article in the Jax, Fl newspaper today about Florida Southern Baptists.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-06-22/story/hipper_cooler_church_pulls_in_more_baptists

It states that the convention’s Annual Church Profile reported decreases in membership and baptisms the past two years, — a 21-year low, and that Florida’s Southern Baptist congregations are bucking a downward spiral nationally. "The Jacksonville-based Florida Baptist Convention’s sometimes unconventional methods — from starting multi-ethnic churches in South Florida to hosting monster truck rallies in Northeast Florida — could be part of the solution to the baptism and membership losses the national denomination is facing."

It strikes me funny that "Convention agencies are already busy drafting plans to better target ethnic and other groups", when these same ethnic groups are targets of jokes from the pulpit of FBCJ. Who would want to join your church when the pastor is making fun of your ethnicity or your culture?

I guess Brunson will be sticking to the status quo and his membership and baptisms will continue to plummet

gopher said...

Steve Gaines praying for pastors at the SBC "...that every tongue that accuses them in judgment, they will condemn..." ????
does that mean what he said ....pastors, go after those that criticize you ???

Steve Gaines Prayer.

Goes along with equating speaking against a pastor, to

Blasphamy.

(accusation brought by Anonymous ... June 19, 2009 9:01 PM)

Anonymous said...

you are suing the CHURCH?

Arce said...

Here is a link to an item that debunks the "pastoral authority" heresy with scripture and sound exegesis: http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0473.htm

Arce said...

Hopefully he is suing Mac and the other staff and lay leaders involved as individuals and the church for two things, One, there was a vote approving what Mac, etc., had done; two, the church has empowered Mac et al., and failed to supervise them. It is called negligent entrustment and negligent supervision. Of course, if you believe as some appear to do, that Mac is the church and the church is Mac, then . . ..

Former FBC Insider said...

Well said ARCE.

And to Anon... not suing "the church"... I hope we will hear a lot more very soon.

Anonymous said...

Suing Mac Brunson?

Anonymous said...

Ok, well, vindicate yourself at all costs; I just hope you know what the cost will be.

Thy Peace said...

It is not to vindicate himself. From my perspective and others on this blog and elsewhere, he is already vindicated.

This is about discovery and due process.

They [Church Leaders] dragged Watchdog's name through the mud, without letting him know what dirt they were heaping on him to others and the methods they used in discovering his name.

Anonymous said...

Before kool-aid drinkers start blaming the WD for using the court system, please THINK for a moment about some things:

Just as Mac and Soud were so determined to "aggressively confront unjust criticism", and they were willing to make it front page news to do so, so it appears the Dog is willing to hold them accountable via the courts of law.

He could not do so by an anonymous email(THEY chose not to reply), and he could not by Matthew 18 (THEY chose not to visit Tom in November 2008), and he could not in an anonymous blog (THEY chose to out him, give him credibility and put his blog's link on the front page and on the local TV news), and then THEY chose to bring in law enforcement and the courts to obtain subpoenas. So now it is a legal matter and Tom is merely continuing his attempts to hold them accountable in the forum THEY have chosen, which is now the courts. Time and time again, THEY have continued to escalate this matter from a mere anonymous email, to a little read anonymous blog, to a blog with his name on it that is read nationally. Their actions and words now have been held up to scrutiny in other blogs and TV news and papers. And the overwhelming majority see it for what it is. An attempt by the church to bully and silence a voice of dissent. As Americans, we MUST fight these bullies no matter the cost. I am with you Dog. Go Dog go! Soud and Brunson must now answer for their actions and deeds in front of six non-kool-aid drinkers on the jury. Good luck with that. (or they could simply hit reply to your original anonymous email and end this whole thing?) HAH!

Anonymous said...

Hey Dog, We are praying intensely for you. Be prepared - MAC and Soud fight dirty, VERY DIRTY! And they've got all the $ and resources to do so. They are a goliath. You are soo truly an underdog here. This is a God-size job. I worry. I'm telling you, Mac is dirty and he plays very dirty. This is gonna get ugly.

Doug said...

There are ant piles throughout all these man made denominations & faiths running "pastor led" church's in the name of Lord and using the Bible to justify Pharisee lifestyles and similar actions just like with many much worse than those at FBC Jacksonville,


...it is amazing what power and money does to a religious man.

The SBC and other State Conventions are full of these "ANTS"

Anonymous said...

Off our rhythm and off our game and being angry...boy that speaks volumes. Sounds like golf, bowling, baseball or any other sport. All of these exercises could be in "PLAY". I don't get it. Shouldn't it be "we fail because we don't preach, we don't love, and don't reach out'???

Arce said...

The WD has been slandered by Mac Brunson, in public, in the paper, with TV coverage, etc., without any regard to whether his remarks were true or not. That is an offense that was unnecessary and Mac Brunson chose to do it. He should be held liable for that.

The WD has been slandered by Soud, in public, on TV, before a large crowd of people.

The CHURCH, by standing vote, endorsed the actions of Brunson and Soud, etc., and should be called to account for their hiring and support of the above.

If I were WD, I would settle with the church, after discovery (like the actual bylaws before and after the secret amendments) for the church terminating Mac Brunson in lieu of any financial settlement. However, Brunson is another matter and he should have to pay some of the ill-gotten gains he has made masquerading as a pastor (he is at best a pulpiteer, and not a very good one at that).

Arce said...

There is an interesting piece on the heresy of "pastoral authority" with scriptural references and a good exegesis on the following web site: http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0473.htm

Anonymous said...

1. Whereas the Watchdog has been faithful to his calling he is to be held in high esteem.

2. Whereas the Watchdog has been faithful in exercising his God given gift he is to be commended.

3. Whereas the Watchdog is accountable before God for his ability to recognize error he is to be saluted.

4. Whereas the Watchdog cares about the church and the brotherhood of believers he is counted in the beloved.

All those agree...those opposed...the resolution passes.

Anonymous said...

June 23 9:55: You posted the "New BBC Open Forum said......Any of This Sound Familar." I recommend all read this very telling post! Please note the part about a Lady member since 1956 of FBC Dallas being overwhelmed by seven attorneys concerning the Criswell Center. Who was the pastor of FBC Dallas when this incident took place? Anyone in Dallas know?

Richard said...

Amen Anon 6:40. You get an AYE from me!

Anon 5:23, with regard to your reference that Brunson and Soud have the $ and resources .. unfortunately it is my strong belief that the "giving units" of the congregation are going to be financing their defense and paying any "settlements," if there are any. There will be "love offerings." The finance committee that Brunson put in place will approve any expenditures that may or may not come out of this lawsuit. This lawsuit will cost neither Brunson or Soud a dime.

What Brunson and Soud are most afraid of is that they will have to get up in a public forum and apologize to Tom for their actions. Blount, King, and even Hinson should be made to do the same thing. Anyone involved in that fiasco should be made to do the same thing.

God speed to Watchdog. I am sure you have a multitude of supporters who would rather "tithe" to your cause if necessary than to "tithe" to FBCJax and watch their money spent as it is.

Anonymous said...

June 23, 2009 5:23 PM - you are correct they fight dirty and this will get ugly. However, they are amateurs and novices when it came to dealing with a blogger who can expose every email, every letter and every action they take, to the whole world. They really don't know how to handle this and they have made miscalculation after miscalculation so far. If they continue to fight dirty with the ways that worked in the past (aggressively confronting and slandering and shutting folks down) they will get in even worse doo doo than they are already in. Nope. Maybe this time they try some Christ-like (kindness, humility) and biblical (matthew 18) tactics. Nah. HAH!

Anonymous said...

Let's hope so, 9:19, but I guarantee the other side is lawyered-up to the hilt.

Lets hope they keep Amroureolinomorum as their consultant so his mess can keep train-wrecking 'em.

Anonymous said...

Anon June 23, 2009 8:37 PM said "Please note the part about a Lady member since 1956 of FBC Dallas being overwhelmed by seven attorneys concerning the Criswell Center. Who was the pastor of FBC Dallas when this incident took place? Anyone in Dallas know?"

At the end of the article it reads
"2. Confirmed by the testimony of Betty Erwin on Southwest Radio Church archived broadcast: March 1, 2005, see and hear at: http://www.swrc.com/broadcasts/2005/march.htm and by 11/07, 11/11, 11/24, 2004 and 1/6 2005 letters by Betty Erwin to Mr. & Mrs. Brunson and another former pastor at Dallas First Baptist Church, and telephone interview March 2005."

Do those names sound familiar?
However, the link does not work anymore. They have archived it here:
http://www.swrc.com/bookstore/pdc/pdc_tapes.html.

Anonymous said...

Watchdog and to those others who have Biblical discernment, the scriptures tell us to come out from among them and be ye seperate(II Cor 6:17). Watchdog, you left them, they did not leave you. As a matter of fact they would not even come into your home.

You have made the right decision. There are a lot of people praying for you and the stand you have and are taking. Some people, or rather, most have no idea what brotherly kindness really means. The fact is that Cain asked that very question "am I my brother's keeper". In todays world, unfortunaely its every man for himself, even in the best clubs. Do not give in to the these signs. You will be vindicated and hopefully your influence will persuade others that "right be done" not only in a church, but in a business, a community, and at the state and federal level. God bless you and your family.

Thy Peace said...

I do not know how mean both Mac and Soud can get with WD in the courts. That is to be seen. I am certain their lawyers will fight tooth and nail.

Based on my own experiences with Fbc Jax Leadership, as in here, I question their discernment.

For some reason, they could not handle a fairly innocuous comment from an out of towner on this blog. Then they decided to interrupt my watching fbc jax video stream with a taped video comment from Mac to me.

Wow!

Who are the dunderheads who thought of this, macabre scene?

It shows you the thinking of this leadership.

As I said before, I am not upset about it. Just puzzled about the lack of discernment in response for a mild comment. I honestly thought, once they find WD, they would draw his blood. I would not have been surprised if they did that in the church.

But they maligned him. First before leaders, and then by word of mouth. At least what WD did, he did it on the blog, for the whole world to see. Of course Mac's supporters would see that as maligning, but in my opinion WD was questioning.

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

This is your classic David(WD) verus Goliath(FBCJ).And we know the outcome of that battle don't we!!! My prayers are with you Dr.Dog!!!

Anonymous said...

Blogger 6/25 9:24.... So Brunson was the preacher at Dallas FBC when the long time member a Betty Erwin was set upon by attorneys? Is that right? So have they done this attorney thing before the Watchdog? WOW!

Thy Peace said...

New BBC Open Forum > What's with all the yelling and anger?.

Richard said...

Church Blesses Fathers With Beer

Bottles of beer will be given to fathers who attend church, in an alternative "blessing" for Father's Day.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5587035/Church-blesses-fathers-with-beer.html

I can visualize right now our dear departed Dr. Lindsay preaching a sermon on the subject … “Jackasses!”

Smyrl would get up there and accuse yet another religion of being a cult.

Whatever would Mac Brunson preach on the subject? I’m afraid to imagine what he might say, but whatever he DID say on the subject would be LOUD!

Beans … I would venture to guess that there are close to 500 “unchurched” alcoholics within a 20 block radius of the FBCJax campus. Can one imagine that if FBCJax had a “beer Sunday” (for that matter have a “beer Thursday”), advertise the thing and spread the word? Lost souls would come out of the woodwork right there to the church! They would come right there to the perfect place to be ministered to. FBCJax might even partner with AA or some similar organization to be there to minister at the same time. Now THAT is a ministry. THAT is a mission.

However, those 500 “unchurched” alcoholics cannot be converted into “giving units.”

Cruising up and down the Danube in the name of Jesus.

“Jackasses!”

Former FBC Insider said...

Oh Richard the Bean Counter,
You NEVER cease to amaze and amuse me at the same time!!

Thy Peace,
I have never laughed so hard in my life. That video by way of BBC Open Forum is PRICELESS!! If only it weren't so sad, and so true.

Thank you BBC Open Forum!
Your sense of humor sure helps to lighten the load.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

The video New BBC Open forum has is interesting.

Of course the "HAH" antics are par for the course...he first mischaracterizes those who might have expressed concern over the satellite concept - as though those people are faithless, or small-minded, while he is the one who knows better. When actually sincere, loving, intelligent Christian people did express concern over the concept of starting a satellite with Mac as the "star", instead of a church plant with a pastor.

But Mac then uses NUMBERS to poke his thumb in the eye of those who disagreed with him...as though a comparison between SS numbers in a narrow time period proves whether he was right or wrong...those numbers are meaningless, and besides I don't trust a man who only provides numbers when its convenient for HIM. I don't hear any numbers comparing this year's SS to last year's. What if the numbers fall to 150, does that mean he is now WRONG, that satellites are no good?

And why the HAH? Them's is fightin' words, its antagonistic. He lectures the pastors in Louisville to be more civil, and he does that sort of nonsense in his own church.

But the worst part is his statement about tithing.

He says he's never seen a person who tithes go broke.He's saying that a person who tithes is exempt from financial trouble - they won't go broke? He is stating that one way to avoid going broke is to tithe. The video is right - its a repackaged form of prosperity gospel preaching.

Why in 3 years has Mac not clearly taught the biblical doctrine of "storehouse tithing"? He only refers to it, brings up the past about Lindsay preaching it, and tells people "its in da book"...when he won't teach it FROM da book.

TomRich Paparazzi said...

Mr. Rich,

Your faithfull few (ThyPeace, FFBCI, Richard, and a few others) seem to follow you and worship you like the Paparrazi worships celebs. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

As far as I see it, the church is totally innocent. You and the JSO are the ones with blood on your hands. You slandered and mocked the church and the JSO detective released your identity, which probably should not have happened seeing how nothing criminal was found in the investigation. The church has done nothing wrong.

Anonymous said...

to anon 4:07 PM

Please pay better attention. The church did not meet with Tom as Matt 18 says and you can verify on Tiffany Thigpen Croft's blog that she personally tried to arrange a meeting and Brunson refused to meet.

How do you figure the church has done nothing wrong when it is probably just a matter of time that the details made known to all exactly who "made up" the story of Tom being a stalker and a mail thief? Making up a lie to find out the indentity of a blogger is not wrong?

There's more I can ask you to be specific about not doing wrong but figure maybe we should start with a couple of easy ones?

Anonymous said...

4:07 - I call Troll

TomRich Paparazzi said...

Anon 4:36pm,

To address your response:

"The church did not meet with Tom"....Sir, I think you had pay better attention. The church did try and meet with Tom but Tom refused.
What's wrong with Brunson refusing to meet with Tiffany Croft? What does she have to do with Tom?
There was no story that was made up by the church. No lie was told to retrieve the identity of Mr. Rich. So there is no wrongdoing there.

You said there is more that you could ask, so what you got?

Anonymous said...

to anon 4:07 PM

As a casual observer, I'm curious as to what you consider WD to have said that would be slanderous. I've read most of his blog and don't recall anything that could be remotely considered as slander.

Would you be so kind as to give a specific example of something he wrote or said that would be?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

These are the lies that you have to deal with.

Paparazzi is lying.

I sent a reply to the discipline committee on Monday after Thanksgiving.

I said I would gladly meet with them, under three conditions.

1. Tell me the basis of the accusations (this would have been easy. They could have said: there was a JSO investigation and we were told your name)

2. Please give me a copy of the bylaws so I know the rules of the discipline process (to their credit, they did offer to let me come in to inspect the bylaws, but would not give me a copy - and they did not offer me to view them until after they filed official trespass papers with the JSO)

3. Allow me to record the meeting, or to at least bring a witness with me to the meeting.

They denied all three.

So to say I refused to meet with them is just more spin and lies from people who are ill informed, or who are knowingly spreading lies.

Also, Wade Burleson sent a letter to Brunson back in March offering to set up a reconciliation meeting between myself and Brunson, but Burleson got no response.

And also, I offered to speak to the Deacons, until Blount said I would be restricted as to what I could say in my defense.

Anonymous said...

No matter what side you happen to be on in this, it seems obvious to me that FBCJ did not handle this "problem" properly in the beginning or at anytime afterward.

It seems to me that WD should have been considered nothing more than a nuisance at worst but, in fact should have been treated with Christian love and compassion rather than being banned from the church grounds.

How anyone could think that the church handled this in a Biblical manner or a loving manner is beyond this observers ability to understand.

When I read what the pastor said about WD in the local press I was absolutely shocked and appalled. Unbelievable!

Anonymous said...

Obviously Paparazzi has never been to a Kangaroo court. He needs to read "Any of this sound familar" then maybe he will see the light!!!

Richard said...

Tom Rich Paparazzi of 4:07PM …

I guess being attacked by name on this blog makes me an official member, although I have only been participating in it for a month!

I am truly honored to be grouped with Thy Peace, FFBCI and the others mentioned.

anon said...

Talk about being hard-headed. Some trolls still come and accuse WD of having a few followers. Open your eyes. We are not his followers. Only celebrity mega pastors have followers.

And you still really believe it is only a few. Don't you know how to read the feedjit map or the counter and see that thousands from all over the world read this blog daily.

Yeah right. Tom and a few supporters only. Then why so much effort to "shut em down?"

Doug said...

I confess, I am a follower of Tom.

Does that make the Brunsonites or Macker Backers or the Kool Aid Cup Fillers mad?

Hope so!

If you need any help Tom, let us know.

The Truth is Marching on.

Anonymous said...

Every comedian knows that stereotypes and flatulence are sure ways to get laughs. Speaking of laughs, you might want to read this: http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article6509677.ece

Anonymous said...

I confess, I am a follower of Tom.

Does that make the Brunsonites or Macker Backers or the Kool Aid Cup Fillers mad?

Hope so!

If you need any help Tom, let us know.

The Truth is Marching on.

June 24, 2009 11:12 PM

Hey Tom, I think you should expect your followers to give you a big salary like Mac gets from his. Some perks, too.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Yes, send me 10% of your income, as I am doing God's will.

Readers of this blog are expected to give 10% of their income to God - and by giving it to me, you're giving it to God!

You didn't know that? WELL YOU KNOW IT NOW.

Did I just say that? You better believe I did!

Sorry, only recovering FBC Jax'ers will get that....

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I've called on 100 bloggers to pray with the watchdog, and here 9 years after Homer died, I can't find but 50 that'll pray with the watchdog.

Did I just say that? You better believe I did!

:)

Thy Peace said...

WD, I am curious. Did Mac implement his borrowed idea from Spurgeon on having 100/120 men and equal number of women to pray in a room while the services were going on. The original plan was for all three services.

Did it get implemented? If so how many men and women did they find?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

TP - I have no clue. Maybe someone else knows.

Anonymous said...

Thy Peace will you tell us what the video message from Mac said?

Former FBC Insider said...

Paparazzi,

It is good to be found faithful to such a worthy cause. Thank you.

The paparazzi don’t worship the celebrities, they keep the celebrities in the forefront, supporters if you will. There are many more supporters blogging here that have chosen not to give a ’name’ to themselves. Otherwise you could have named so many more. I would hope to always be a supporter on the side of what is right.

You say the church has done nothing wrong, I’m curious to know if you would say you support the way “the church” handled Watchdog and his family by issuing trespass warrants instead of having a reconciliation meeting in love.

It is shameful behavior on the part of “the church”, which in effect is Mac Brunson,
in Mac Brunson’s eyes.

Former FBC Insider said...

Tom,

Are you going to send us our offering envelopes to our home or do you prefer direct deposit?

Thy Peace said...

Of course, when I first experienced this bizarro video comment, I was in a state of shock. I could not believe my own eyes and ears.

He snickered, and laughed that I could not compare him to Vines or others. That is ... he was making fun of my comment. He had a sneering look on his face ... as to what the hell I was doing making comments on WD's site ... he did not say this, but that is the impression I received from listening to him.

I normally tape all my viewing of fbc jax. But the way they interjected this video comment, by breaking my connections, rendered my recording virtually useless. I went over them to see if I could recover any meaningful data, but I have failed.

I know, I did not imagine this. It did happen. It disturbed be greatly at that time. But now, I can put it in context.

Just made me wonder, why he and others there were so edgy with an innocuous comment. Did they feel they were losing control of the whole situation? At least, later events with WD proved that they were indeed consumed.

PS: This is was not the only comment he made. He also made a comment indirectly to me during the services [during a pause], that someone is making comments. That is he looked directly at the camera and made that comment. I knew he was addressing me.

I also remember the one comment he made of WD, calling him a pip-squeak, in low voice. At that sermon, he seemed flustered and was attempting regain control of his emotions.

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

Dr.Dog forgive me for being derelict in my duties. You know with the economy being the way it is and everything. My 15% is on the way too you! I want the doors of Heaven opened so I won't be broke! Also can't let Mac out do me you know!!!

Anonymous said...

Thy Peace, when you post stuff like that, that makes me think you need to see the doctor. And I was there for the pipsqueak comment, and he wasn't calling WD a pipsqueak that day as I recall. Thats always been the thing about this blog. When you actually go to church there, you see a whole other side of whats going on. Then you come here and read the interpretation of whats going on and its, well, twisted. Always has been.

Former FBC Insider said...

Anonymous, June 25, 2009 9:43 AM,

Having been there until recently, I have to disagree. Mac has painted his own portrait here. I seen very few things that have been twisted, except for the way Mac is twisting his members' minds.

Anonymous said...

Thy Peace, when you post stuff like that, that makes me think you need to see the doctor. And I was there for the pipsqueak comment, and he wasn't calling WD a pipsqueak that day as I recall. Thats always been the thing about this blog. When you actually go to church there, you see a whole other side of whats going on. Then you come here and read the interpretation of whats going on and its, well, twisted. Always has been.

June 25, 2009 9:43 AM

That is because you have been slowly boiled. I am sure they put on an excellent show there. Most mega's do.

TomRich Paparrazi said...

Former FBC Insider,

Do I support the way the church handled the Watchdog with the trespass warnings? Absolutely.

Did the Watchdog have a chance to go to a reconciliation meeting? Absolutely.

Did he take advantage of that opportunity? Absolutely not.

So who's to blaim? Tom Rich.

Tom Rich is acting like a child trying to get attention.
He can't get what he wants with a complaint against JSO so he goes to the next person and sues them, the church.
It's like he's acting like a 2 year old with a dirty diaper, screaming and crying, demanding attention.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Nice try, guy.

The lawsuit against the JSO, SAO, Hinson and Segal is still pending in federal court. The coming lawsuit against FBC Jax and Brunson is not about getting attention, and its not about the JSO lawsuit not getting me what we want.

I don't know who the paparazzi is, because he's too cowardly to use his name. If he's defending his church, gee, why not give us your name. But if he is an FBC Jax member, this is what FBC Jax has become. This guy approves what the church did in issuing trespass papers to me and my wife, they approve of them not letting my wife on the property to see our daughter sing, he lies about me not meeting with them - when as I stated I offered to meet with them but it would only be on their terms and they wouldn't meet any of my three reasonable demands.

And this guy I'm assuming also approves of his pastor calling me mentally ill in the newspaper. If I were mentally ill, wouldn't it be sad for a pastor to declare it in the newspaper? Not to those who are more interested in defending a pastor and an institution than they are for standing up for right.

Anonymous said...

Thy Peace,

Long time supporter of the dog, here. I follow the postings each day but I am confused by your 8:59 post. What video is this you are talking about? I'd like to see it. Can you link us to it or direct us to it somehow.

Thanks in advance,

A WD faithful

Poor in Jax said...

there was a pastor named Mac,
Who got upset by a bloggers attack.
So he called in his crowd,
that included judge Soud,
for a plan to get the poor blooger back.
We will say he is a stalker with O.C.D,
We will say he took photos of Deb and me.
We will get even, will make him pay.
Make a example of him, no matter which way.
For what they did next might seem kind of strange,
They called the deacons togather for a bylaw change.
A little where is this, and where is that.
The trap was set like cheese to a rat.
They then huddled togather and you could hear Mac laugh,
Go find that detective that we have on staff.
Find this blogger Robbie, bring him to me.
He must be made a example for all FBC.
So with a subpoena for Google in his right hand,
Robbie came back to Mac for he found his Man.
Issue tresspass warnings bar him for life.
Dont forget to include his children and wife.
I done it in Dallas and I will do it again,
Nobody tells Mac Brunson how to deal with such sin.
Mac had his man and his chest filled with pride,
it seemed a good plan till the lawsuit arrived.
Five years later, I hope to look back and see.
Mac working the night shift at KFC.

Anonymous said...

WD;
you asked.....
"I don't know who the paparazzi is, because he's too cowardly to use his name. If he's defending his church, gee, why not give us your name."

this sure sounds just like an Everson or one of his drinkers.

They are hugh cowards you know.

Anonymous said...

Tom,

The only paparazzi and those like him/her can defend Mac and the church is to ignore embarassing facts.

They may be a bit embarassed that they blindly followed their leaders and thereforce cannot admit their actions were wrong based on all the info that has come out since the resolution.

It is amazing what folks will believe so that they never have to examine themselves and to save face.

One gives their money and their life to these mega monstrosities. They have blindly followed what they think are 'great men of God'.

How could they live with themselves if they admit it was all a sham? They would have to admit they were ignorant shills to prop up a celebrity preacher who is in it for himself.

The only way they can deal with it is to attack you. And their 'great men of God have taught them how to do this well. They are their role models. Not Christ.

TomRich Paparazzi said...

Mr. TR,

I was not happy with the pastors comments on your mental stability. I do not approve of that.

But I stand my ground when it comes to you meeting with the discipline committee.
You were a given a chance, a chance to make your arguments and defend your positions and to present your view points on the issues you were concerned with.
But you refused to meet with them and face them like a man. Instead, you withdrawl your membership and run like a coward and throw lawsuits at anybody you can.

And the demands you requested for the meeting were not reasonable. They were absurd.

1. You were granted access to the bylaws and could have viewed them prior to the meeting. But you didn't. Had you done so, you probably would have attained a better understanding of the discipline process.

2. Your request for a "witness" or "record" of the meeting is just a way of saying I want my lawyer to be present. The church had every right to deny that demand because they were not trying to pursue any legal action as part of the discipline process. And neither should you.

3. And your demand to know the basis of the accusations made against you would have been discussed with you had you attended the meeting.

There are no excuses Mr. Rich for falling short when it comes to living a Biblical life.

Thy Peace said...

Yes, I will be happy to admit that I need to see a doctor. But the only doctor I need is Our Lord Jesus Christ and The Word.

I have listened routinely many times to each of Pastor Mac's sermons. Clearly my impressions may not agree with yours.

But one thing that can not be in dispute is the anguish expressed by Mac against blogger(s). And the sad thing was, only he had the power to fix it. I personally do not think Mac was faking it when he expressed his anguish. To me it seemed very genuine. But what I could not understand is why he would not take steps to correct this.

From my reading, WD is closer to Mac doctrinally. They both share the same belief in Our Lord Jesus Christ. Little bit of bending would have resolved this long time ago.

Also, technically (my perspective) Mac and Fbc Jax clearly won here. That is they kicked out WD. Though the only side effect is some publicity in the press and this might increase once the lawsuits progress. So from a public relations stand point, Fbc Jax took a beating, of which mostly it will be Mac, Soud, and et al. But from a process perspective within the church, there is little dissent. That is all the dissenters have mostly left or were asked to leave. I am sure others will disagree with me on this.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Nice spin, pal.

What would the church have to fear if I brought a lawyer or ANYONE to a meeting, so that it is not one man in a room with six people. What did THEY have to fear? Come on, use your head.

I acknowledged multiple times that Blount offered for me to come to the church to view the by laws. Good for him.

And they could have very easily picked up the phone and said: "there was a JSO investigation and we uncovered your identity from Comcast and Google." But they didn't. They wouldn't. Wonder why? And of course...if you had only come to see us we would have told you about the JSO investigation, and all of that. Do you really believe that?

If they truly sought reconciliation as they claim, they would have done anything other than what they did. They would have followed Matt 18. Their first step would not have been a letter and trespass, they would have allowed me to bring someone with me to meet them, and would have told me how they found my identity UP FRONT. They would have done everything they could to get me into a meeting.

As far as "withdrawling my membership", you're a liar.

We joined our new church on Feb 1, 2009. The next week, Blount called to let me know they were taking this matter to the deacons. I didn't run away. I complied with their trespass warnings, and my family and I sought another church. Soud lied in the Deacon's Resolution that we left FBC Jax AFTER we were told that this matter was going to the deacons. Sorry that this fact doesn't fit your story that I'm a coward and "ran away".

But I won't convince you. That's OK, I understand.

I once was where you are, and would defend my church and my pastor with the zeal that you have, blinded to facts. So I understand, and even have pity on you.

Anonymous said...

So TRP

You were shown to be wrong about some things you said in response to my questions.

You won't acknowledge the innacuracy of the information you believe to be true.

Why is it ok for Brunson to remain pastor when he tells other pastors in his Pastors Guidebook that they should not live in excutive homes, drive fancy cars or accept expensive gifts. Last I saw Brunson has done all 3 of those things while telling others in a published book they should not do them. In that same book he also tells them they should meet personally with unhappy church members yet it is documented that Brunson refused to meet with Tom.

Why is it ok for him to be in such a position of leadership with such discrepancies fully in the open?

Also maybe you should ask Det Hinson what Tiffany Croft has to do with Tom Rich. He subpeonaed her blog records and identity. Which to me was pretty ridiculous, her name is right on the blog, he could have picked up the phone and called her. He could have asked her dad at church even.

Why is it ok for the church to discipline certain sins? Discipline anyone who is not in lock step but not discpline adulterers? Can you tell us the recently known adulterers were subjected to the Discipline Committee?

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

TomRich/Paparazzi.

"There are no excuses Mr. Rich for falling short when it comes to living a Biblical life."

June 25, 2009 11:29 AM

I have a formula for statements like the above.

(1)Defective Theology leads too:

(2)Defective Thinking;that leads too:

(3)Defective Actions!!

This formula cannot be avoided!

As proven by the above comments!!!

Bro./Patsor Rod H. said...

" I have listened routinely many times to each of Pastor Mac's sermons. Clearly my impressions may not agree with yours."


Well stated Thy Peace. All one need do is too listen and pay close attention TO THE FACTS AND THEY WILL SEE THE TRUTH!!!

These Macsters are willfully ignorant!!!

TomRich Paparazzi said...

Mr. TR,

Pull your head out of your arrogant posterior and listen.
The church would have had nothing to fear if you had brought a lawyer to the meeting. They would have feared NOTHING. Why? Because the church has a few of the biggest power players in the city that are trustees and deacons, etc in the church. So if they wanted to play the lawyer game, they would have been glad to let you bring a lawyer to the meeting, face to face with their lawyers. I mean come on, between you and the church, who has more weight to swing around? Definitely the church. So the issue is not that they were afraid of your lawyer. They wanted to restore things the biblical way, without lawyers and all that political nonsense.
But you, as a misguided sheep would do, insisted on "rights" and decided against biblical restoration.
Now you're throwing lawsuits left and right at anybody who's in range. And they're getting shot down out of the air.

I urge caution Mr. Rich. Suing the church is a big thing. Remember, power players, and lawyers, and judges are hard to fight.
I don't think your lawyer, Mr. Roberts is he?, can win this one.

And what's the deal with suing the church anyways? What are you after?
An apology? You won't get one, they did nothing wrong. Money? A settlement? You may get a settlement but money is not what your after is it.
You want revenge, retribution, the same thing you tried to avoid by blogging anonymously. Isn't it funny how things play out, hehe.

Vengeance is the Lord's Mr. Rich. If you honestly think you are in the ok here and that the Lord is pleased with your actions up until now, let the Lord win and take His vengeance on Mac Brunson.

Former FBC Insider said...

Paparazzi,
Take another sip of the kool-aid and pass it down.

Richard said...

Poor in Jax:

Your poetry is lovely. You should write a book. Mega pastors make big bucks doing the same thing!

I for one would plug it on this blog. It can be dedicated to The Watchdog.

Do I have your permission to cut and paste the poem on a couple of other appropriate blogs or do you need a royalty fee for me to do that?

Former FBC Insider said...

Oh now I know who Paparazzi is, he's just another one of Mad Mac's clones. The arrogance is sickening, but I'm sure Mac is proud that another one of the poor dumb sheep is following in his footsteps. Baaaaaaaaa
Blindly follow, that's all you know how to do. Discernment isn't taught there anymore.

Thy Peace said...

Wade's Blog > Reflections on the 2009 SBC in Louisville, KY.

For reasons that are not of my making (at least in my opinion), I have been involved in the politics of the SBC for the past three years.

It is now time for me to step aside.

Richard said...

Referring to an earlier post where I compared the kool-aid drinkers to drug addicts, Paparazzi guy is the perfect example.

He has apparently consumed so much kool aid that his brain is dead beyond any hope although his body is still functioning.

With reference to the comments about high powered lawyers and judges to back FBCJax and inferring that Mr. Roberts doesn't have a chance against them, remember this ...

I would betcha by golly that there are enough Catholic and Muslim and Black and Hispanic high powered lawyers in this city that would take this case pro-bono for the principle. You got Smyrl to thank for that one.

Those high powered lawyers and judges that will be representing the church will NOT be working pro-bono for the principle. Somehow, some way, the "giving units" will finance the Church's defense and the defense of both Mac and Soud as individuals. The "giving units" will be the ones financing any settlement, if any.

I'm quite confident that Watchdog is NOT in this for any financial gain. Watchdog has REPEATEDLY, over and over again, listed what he wanted and what he expected out of this "discipline committee" that was appointed by Brunson. Until that happens, there will be no settlement. Each of those things he is asking for costs NO money. What these high powered lawyers and judges will be defending is keeping Mac out of a public forum having to issue an apology in a format to Watchdog's approval. Can anyone get a visual of that?

Poor in Jax said...

Richard,
Feel free to pimp my poetry out all over the internet in the name of disfellowshipping Mad Mac and promoting the Watchdog.

(Please hit spell check, I didn't.)

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Paparazzi - you missed my point.

What did they have to fear in a meeting?

Nothing. That is my point. You think I think they would fear me? or a lawyer? Of course not. Soud and Bristowe and the rest of the bunch fearing me or a lawyer? Of course not. But I would have gone, and I sent them a letter and emails stating such. I would have gone, but with a witness. They had nothing to fear.

But that is my point. They didn't want to meet with me, else they would have met my reasonable requests. I know YOU can't see that, but others outside of FBC Jax looking in (other than Wilcox and Estes) DO see it for what it is.

If they did want to meet, they would have met my three simple requests. Requests that any reasonable person would make in the same circumstance. And they could have said "Hey, come to the meeting, and we'll tell you about how we found your identity". They didn't even do that. The only response was "if you want to see the bylaws, you can come to the library". And they said categorically will I never be able to bring a person with me or record the meetings as they are "eccliastical". So who says a person going to an eccliastical meeting can't bring a witness?

Look, I know I won't convince you, and I suspect you are an insider. But I do genuinely pity you, that you are so blind as to defend the actions of your church leadership in the way they handled this mess. And they have done more harm to themselves than any blogger could have ever done - but the faithful will defend the actions of their leadership, for to not do so indicts themselves.

Arce said...

The paparazzo is willfully spinning the facts into lies to support his position. If he had paid attention to the blog for the last year, he would have known that the Rich family left the church before the matter was taken to the deacons. He would also have known that there way multiple opportunities for Mac Brunson to meet with Mr. Rich, mediated by other people who were not in either camp but neutral. And Mac refused or did not even answer.

Mac is a dictator, plain and simple. He has a lust for power and money and for control of whatever he cannot control. His sin is evident in every TV broadcast.

The paparazzo needs to get a dose of reality and stop the idolatry of Mac Brunson, and begin worshipping the Lord God who lives in the persons of the Creator, Redeemer and Comforter.

Anonymous said...

Blog. 9:43: Interpertation twisted.


I can tell you the Rule and Reign policy is definitely in place. If you arn't "on board" then you are isolated from doing any service or having any part other than attending and then there is the expectation that you give your money, even if "they" don't like you. Displease the "top" and you get dropped. The "word" goes out and suddenly no one is talking to you. You are relieved of your "position" or area of service. You are made to feel and treated as an offender. And in the WD's case you actually get thrown out. It is my guess that other Trespass Notices would have gone out had not this blog., been in place. The publicity it has brought about would really go wild over further "insult to injury" actions. Should similar Trespass Notices or "inducements" to leave the church come in the future depends on the success of Tom's suit. If Tom loses, the "carnage" may be great. If he wins, maybe there is hope for this church. I will say this treatment, to a degree, did not start with Brunson, it was in place prior. But the current leadership has "fine tuned" it enormously.

My opinion is.. Church is voluntary. Why would people that really love the Lord want to be connected with anything like this church, as it is? We are being told what to do and controlled in many areas of our lives today, basically losing our freedoms daily. The church seems to be following the same pattern. A do as I say or else pattern.

Anonymous said...

Tom, Matthew 18 clearly says to bring witnesses with you when confronting. The fact they would not allow you to bring witnesses screams loudly as to their intentions.

Wonder if Paparazzi can give us some insight into why they would not allow you to bring a witness.

What is up with the bylaws being in the Library only? Does this not concern members? I guess it is a way to track those who want to look at them.

So much for the Holy Priesthood.

FBCJax seems more RCC in it's polity by its own actions.

Arce said...

The strategies of the proposed meeting have been detailed in an earlier publication that is available on the web at: http://savingbellevue.com/HTM%20Files/abusive.htm

Anonymous said...

As information even the apostle Paul had Zenas the lawyer with him!! And that was in a Kangaroo court of all places. The church of the Lord Jesus Christ should allow witnesses on both sides.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Papparazzi - I don't mind you coming here and discussing these issues. But the question you asked me I won't post because its irrelevant, and you know it.

Richard said...

Anon June 25, 2009 1:16 PM

What is up with the bylaws being in the Library only? Does this not concern members? I guess it is a way to track those who want to look at them.

Ya know, with a membership somewhere around the 25,000 mark (depending on who ya talk to) wouldn’t it be a logical thing to post the bylaws on their website? They can sure find ways to post advertisements for certain contractors and river cruises; why can’t the bylaws be posted and available to ALL members? Are they THAT secretive? This is a tax exempt organization, and as a taxpayer I think I should have access to their bylaws whether I am a member or not.

I find it truly hard to believe that there is only ONE copy of the church bylaws and that is located in the church library. God forbid, what would happen if the library burned down?

Former FBC Insider said...

Tom,
Paparazzi has got me wondering... he is obviously still inside the cult, so I'm wondering WHO are these people still on the inside?

My conclusion, having been an insider for over 30 years before I left Mad Mac last year, is that they are the ones who've been there the longest. They maybe grew up there, got saved there, got married there, maybe had children there, and grandchildren in all those musicals. They are the long-timers. I'm not old, so they aren't necessarily older, just been there a long time. I know those people, they feel like "it's my church", and like someone else has blogged on this site before, they have formed so many linked relationships (i.e. SS teachers, directors, kids' SS teachers and directors, nursery workers, ushers on "their aisle", Miss Nancy, Barton and Carr (none of which are in service there anymore.) They find it hard to leave.

They've not been deceived before, so they didn't see it coming. They were caught up in the hype of Mac. I was there, but skeptical like you, having strong discernment, watching, comparing his words and deeds and motives with The Word.

So, I think it really comes down to this; in all of life, whether at work, at school, at home, at church or at play, there are still only 3 types of people, (I've witnessed it in my many years of service at FBCJ and so has Tom), there are the Voyeurs, (watchers, the sponges) Lawyers, (who just want to argue the point without action) and Warriors, (the doers, that's us.) We are the doers, the ones with discernment who cannot let it go. We cannot let it happen if it is wrong. We protest. We fight. We make it right or point out to the rest how wrong it is.

In conclusion, now I can imagine who is left at FBCJ.
Now, when they post their comments, such as Paparazzi , you can only figure they are either the Voyeurs, the sponges, or the Lawyers, the arguers with no action.
The discerners, The Warriors are gone.
Maybe there are still a few who will leave in droves as their eyes are opened by blogs such as this and front page headlines made by their pastor.

(And maybe Paparazzi has left us a clue... is HE the one who was taking photos of Deb??)

Anonymous said...

WD,

You've really been gracious in holding your tongue but still defending your rightful position when dealing with your detractors, critics and outright attackers. You should be commended for that.

You've also been very classy not to post the more "trash-talking" comments that I know you've received (even some from me,) even though they support your side.

We sure aren't seeing such civility from the other side. Even the Mac supporters come on here and attack you BUT STILL can't defend their position.

Anonymous said...

"Paparazzi has got me wondering... he is obviously still inside the cult, so I'm wondering WHO are these people still on the inside?"

I would look more toward Trey's followers and cronies. He sounds young and lacking in the ability to reason with factual information.

Thy Peace said...

"What video is this you are talking about? I'd like to see it. Can you link us to it or direct us to it somehow."

You will not find these videos online. Most of them were in August of 2008 and the pip-squeak one was couple of month before that (I will have to check my records). Anyway, all these were on Number 9 Network, and I am certain they might not have carried them over to 316 Network.

But I do have both mp3 of the sermons and videos I recorded. I have not looked at them since end of August 2008, when I stopped watching Fbc Jax Services regularly.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Paparazzi:

The courts have really assisted the down trodden in America over the last 150 years. If all we had was a prayer for something to happen we would not today have:

1. Voting rights for women
2. Freedom of the slaves
3. Equal opportunity in workplace
4. Rights of accused to be silent
5. Fair hearing in the court system
6. School integration

And these are just six of several hundred court cases that have been brought forward by its citizenry. Yes, the courts do make some good laws. Its for the people by the people. Hopefully, there will be more of the same so we can all enjoy freedom of every lawful description. Shame on those who wish to silence anyone who has a legitimage complaint. The Supreme Court today finally after six years defended the right of that 13 year old girl not to be stripped searched. On and on we could challenge the rights of the small by the GREAT as some would have us believe. LET RIGHT BE DONE!

Anonymous said...

Mr. Paparazzi: The uncomfortable shoes never hurt when they are on someones elses feet!!! I am sure YOU would yell the loudest if any of YOUR rights were denied or attempted to be taken away!!!

Anonymous said...

anon 4:47 Thanks for the encouragement and inspiring post for Team WD.

Anonymous said...

Notice how since the post concerning this being an Everson possibility as the blogger using the sn /TomRich Paparazzi - it has stopped.

Familiarity exposes ignorance.

Anonymous said...

Over a year ago after having the worst stomach virus in years around the Jewish Passover and a month after traditional Easter, I have been rethinking a lot of things.....