"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Thursday, June 11, 2009

Update on Lawsuits - and Copy of JSO Internal Affairs Report

Readers: Its been some time since the lawsuit was filed against the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office and the State Attorney's Office over first amendment freedom of speech and establishment clause violations in the First Baptist Jacksonville blogger matter - so I thought I would give you an update on where things stand.

- the lawsuits have been moved from state court to federal court; discovery process will likely begin sometime in July or August;

- I am told the case number assigned to the case in state court was 2009-CA-6666. No kidding.

- here is a copy of the official response from the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office dated April 22, 2009, responding to my inquiry of Detective Hinson's investigation last year. You will see that the response is not from the JSO Internal Affairs office, but the issue was elevated to the Office of General Counsel of the City of Jacksonville. I had 5 questions of the JSO Internal Affairs office in my initial inquiry (click here to read it), and the OGC letter responds to each of my 5 questions.

- the April 22, 2009 letter from the Office of General Counsel was sent just days prior to the lawsuit being filed in state court. Given the letter came from OGC, I am still unsure if an actual JSO Internal Affairs investigation was done, or if they decided my complaint did not warrant one but still decided to have the OGC respond. The OGC says the matter was "reviewed at the highest level of the JSO", but doesn't actually say an investigation was done by Internal Affairs. But that is water under the bridge at this point.

- thanks to FBC Jax members and former members who continue to send relevant information. I can be reached via email at fbcjaxwatchdog@gmail.com.

I will continue to keep you updated as things move along - as the "mills of the Gods grind slowly" as Mac Brunson likes to say.

58 comments:

Anonymous said...

Tom the response letter fromm Mr.Maltz was the biggest bunch of baloney I have ever read! I know for a fact that Mac approached Tiffany's father concerning her blog.This cover up by FBCJ,JSO,SA and OGC is staggering.The powerful play to the powerful.

Anonymous said...

I bet your lawyer had a field day with the letter from the OGC! It will be interesting to see how the claims made in the letter are received by the court. I suspect things will not be as peachy as Mr. Maltz makes them sound.

Anonymous said...

Bring 'em down, Dog!!

Anonymous said...

And remind yourself: when we get upset and when I want to grumble, when I may not like something, do you know who you are grumbling against? The head. Jesus Christ. You're not grumbling against the staff, you're not grumbling against your neighbor, you're not grumbling against your pastor. Your unsettledness is with Jesus Christ." Kevin King, FBC

A lot of Christians have the gift of "discernment" . . .Mr.King seems to forget that some of us remember reading HEADLINES in FTU about a prominent deacon & youth group leader from FBC who wore a mask and deceived the young people who trusted him. The leadership and staff of FBC were the very ones who entrusted this individual for a leadership role to oversee our young people. The courts were upset, they listened to the complaints and grumlers and rightfully sentenced the man. Be assured I always "remind myself" to be ever watchful of those in leadership roles. You are not Jesus Christ - may I "remind you" that it goes both ways "members" are a gift to you!

Thy Peace said...

Off Topic:

Tiffany Thigpen Croft said...
Once again, TRAIL OF TEARS....this is such a sad post (the quote regarding Christa Brown's book) but I must say that I have seen myself that this is how they feel about Christa and anyone else on the road to figure out how to stop this behavior. I was warned to "be careful" or "not align myself" with Christa and others on my blog - it was unbelievable to me that "Christians" would set out to do harm to another and still see themselves as "Godly leaders". These men (and the women that participate) in this "silence the messenger" mentality are not Godly, are not spiritual, are not looking out for the sheep and are more concerned with "the bigger picture" of the body of Christ. Huh??? We are the body of Christ! If the least of these are being hurt, it is your job to stand up like a ferocious lion and protect the flock! Not the one that comes in to destroy them, when you hide secrets (leaders) or belittle the victims, you hands are just as dirty as the one that hurt them in the first place - because you have now allowed them to move along to hurt again, and again, and again.
...

Anonymous said...

Speaking of the Edmonds fellow, are you?

Here's a question.

Did Edmonds' wife...did she get a trespass warning issued against her for associating with her husband? Was she refused entrance to the church? Did Blount call the JSO and file an official trespass warning against Mrs. Edmunds for "church misconduct" for what her husband did?

Just sayin', and just askin'. Cause Yvette Rich still has a trespass warning on file with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office for church misconduct.

Go get 'em Blount!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 11:07....Members are a gift to you!!!


AMEN & AMEN. Where would they be without volunteers in S.S., Ushers, some Deacons, workers in choir, choir members, workers that take their own time to take trips with the young people. Don't forget people that witness for the Lord, and if they get saved and join will sometimes brings in new volunteers. And also don't forget the volunteers that give almost a week of their valuable time during the Pastors Conference every year. But, most of all important to the "church", Pastor and staff, are the gifts coming in the form of Tithes and Offerings. Where would they be without the GIVING of the MONEY. Try to get by without any of the above...the doors would close. Also try not to insult the hand that feeds you gentlemen. You shouldn't take the money and insult the giver. And don't call it preaching when it's just elevating yourself and putting down the members. I know you call this "service" to the Lord, but you wouldn't have a church or a job without the volunteers and the free giving of money. You all get dressed every morning just like the rest of us. So, I will reject your Gold Plated" assessment of yourselves, while I keep my eye on your "feet of clay". These comments are only addressed to those that have this "I am better than you" attitude. Those on staff that do not fit this mold are excluded. Those of you who genuinely serve for the appropriate reason, God bless you in your endeavor.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 11:22... EXACTLY!!!!!! Where was the "concerned" staff then? Maybe it was because until the "offense" came to light, the perpetrator was a most favored member and fooled many of the "elitest". Just a little embarassing for them. But, they have wasted no time getting rid of others that were of no consequence (translated no position in the community and no money). The arrogance of this group is staggering. The "gift" that some of them think they are to members, is truly delusionary.

Anonymous said...

You will not win.. I'm sorry that the money and time will be wasted as the Law favors City Government and the Police.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:25...You sound like a prophet of doom. The law should favor the individual and his constitutional rights. Just wait and see. If not its a stack deck and many will no longer have faith in having their rights protected.

Thy Peace said...

Off Topic: Help for bloggers

Blogger Buzz > Zemanta helps you "blog smarter".
We're always looking for tools to make blogging easier, and a number of us on the Blogger team have become big fans of Zemanta. Zemanta is a browser plug-in for Firefox and IE, and is available as a bookmarklet for Chrome and Safari. (More details here, you can download your version of Zemanta here.)

Here's how it works: while you write your blog post in Blogger, Zemanta opens up a sidebar next to the Blogger post editor. After you've written a few sentences, Zemanta analyzes the words in your post and suggests images and video that are relevant to your post; with one click, it inserts them into your post.
..
.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:25 - That's because the Watchdog is also the Underdog.

Go get 'em Dog. Go do the right thing!

Anonymous said...

To Thy Peace,

Please, please quit posting off-topic. Or at least just post the links only. You really bog the thread down with your long, copied, off-topic posts. Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,

Tha Dog Pound

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

That's OK, Thy Peace, keep 'em coming. You fill a valuable role in this blogosphere, I don't mind you posting as you do.

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

" FBC Jax Watchdog said...
That's OK, Thy Peace, keep 'em coming. You fill a valuable role in this blogosphere, I don't mind you posting as you do."

June 11, 2009 2:40 PM


I agree with Dr.Dog. Love you THY PEACE "KEEP'EM COMING" you have been a blessing to me!!!

Lydia said...

Some of us consider Thy Peace our very own computer geek who supplies us with links of interest and education on blogging.

One of my friends dubbed him 'Thy Link' as an term of endearment.

So, lay off him, you may not like it but many of us do and he belongs to us and is one of us!

I love you Thy Peace. And I love what you bring to blogging. Every single comment you personally write is one of love and peace toward your brothers and sisters. And you keep us informed of what is going on out there with your links and synopsis of other blogs.

Anonymous said...

You will not win.. I'm sorry that the money and time will be wasted as the Law favors City Government and the Police.

June 11, 2009 1:25 PM

It is NOT about winning a lawsuit but much more than that. This has implications for future elections and even to see just how gullible and biblically ignorant the sheeple at FBCJax really are. But then we are seeing that daily in comments here. It is pretty bad over there. I half expect to see them start selling flowers at the airport.

Anonymous said...

"But then we are seeing that daily in comments here. It is pretty bad over there. I half expect to see them start selling flowers at the airport."

June 11, 2009 3:06 PM


Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha;

Anon "THAT WAS HILARIOUS". I can picture A.C.at the airport with a handful of flowers.

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,

Anonymous said...

Flowers would be better than the rest of the "stuff" they are selling over there.

Anonymous said...

obsess much, Lydia? mmmaaaannn, cool your heels lady. I just asked for him to issue LINKS ONLY, not duplicate links with content. You act as if I made a character-assasination. Relaaaxxxx.

Junkster said...

I thought this from the JSO response letter was interesting:

"The subpoena was deemed necessary due to suspicious activity involving the church pastor and his wife. The pastor's wife was being followed by unknown individuals, photographs of their residence was [sic] posted on the internet and mail was stolen from their personal mailbox during the investigation. The subpoena was necessary to determine if the web site and the aforementioned incidents were related."

Three actions of concern were listed: (1) the pastor’s wife was being followed by unknown individuals (plural, indicating either more than one person at the same time, or one or more different person at different times), (2) photographs of their residence were posted on the internet (interesting that the previous word of mouth reports seem to have garbled the first two concerns into “the wife was being follow and photographed”), and (3) mail was stolen from their personal mailbox.

But it is the phrase “during the investigation” that is especially interesting. It seems to indicate that the actions of concern happened after the investigation was started. If those activities had not yet taken place when the investigation started, then on what basis was the investigation started? I suppose one might interpret the phrase “during the investigation” to apply only to activity # 3, but if so, then all that has taken place before that was the pastor’s wife claimed (but where is this documented?) that she was followed by people she didn’t know, and a picture of the pastor’s house was posted on the internet (was that on the Watchdog’s site, or elsewhere? Even if on this site I suspect it would be elsewhere, also, such as in Google Maps’ street view or satellite view). Even if you grant that concerns 1 & 2 occurred prior to the start of the investigation (and that is not clear from the letter, so I’d want someone to clarify what was meant under oath), those concerns seem like pretty flimsy evidence for opening a criminal investigation – especially since following someone (which alone is not the definition of stalking) and posting their house picture on the internet are not criminal activities!

I also wonder about the phrase, “The subpoena was deemed necessary” -- deemed necessary by whom? Detective Hinson? Without oversight—or under whose oversight? A detective who already has a close relationship with the pastor of a protective nature and who was “aware of the anonymous blog site for quite some time”? Is that an appropriately unbiased investigator? Really??

Perhaps even more ridiculous is the claim that there was no conflict of interest in Detective Hinson conducting the investigation simply because he would have been appointed to this kind of case if he were not a member of the church (since that is his regular role). That in no way addresses the issue of conflict of interest – all it does it say they followed routine policy, but apparently routine policy does not include a mechanism for appointing an investigator not personally connected to a case. They can’t say “That’s not a conflict of interest, because we say it isn’t -- and, besides, we do it all the time!”

Watchdog, their own words demonstrate that you have quite a case here.

Lydia said...

obsess much, Lydia? mmmaaaannn, cool your heels lady. I just asked for him to issue LINKS ONLY, not duplicate links with content. You act as if I made a character-assasination. Relaaaxxxx.

June 11, 2009 4:47 PM

I thought your 'asking' was nasty and insulting toward Thy Peace.
But I have to admit your above response to me makes that original comment to Thy Peace look like tea party repartee.

Junkster said...

Anonymous said...
obsess much, Lydia? mmmaaaannn, cool your heels lady. I just asked for him to issue LINKS ONLY, not duplicate links with content. You act as if I made a character-assasination. Relaaaxxxx.

June 11, 2009 4:47 PM


No, you asked him to "quit posting off-topic" and complained about his "long, copied, off topic posts". Your "links only" request was secondary. Be nice!

P.S. Your request not to post off topic was off topic. At least Thy Link puts "off topic" at the top of his posts when he does that.

Anonymous said...

Watchdog, their own words demonstrate that you have quite a case here.

June 11, 2009 5:42 PM

I agree and Junkster you caught some of the things that bothered me and even more.

1. Sounds to me like they want us to believe she was stalked but never called the police. She called Hinson, maybe as her personal policeman? Where is his report on the incident with descriptions of the stalker, date, etc. Are they still looking for the stalker? (Much like OJ is still looking for the killer)

2. Why wasn't the PO alerted about mail theft? If they were, where is the documentation? Does Hinson investigate mail theft for the PO, too?

And what would having the information about Tom, BBC and Tiffany croft's blogs do for this investigation? What kind of information did Hinson have to link each one of these blogs to the 'suspicious' activity he lists but with no documentation.

But the biggie is DURING THE INVESTIGATION...so what was he investigating if these happened DURING the investigation?

Methinks they had a 'timing' problem with evidence...anyone see any dates for the supposed stalking or mail theft...? Dates are going to be important.

Are they going to go after google for posting pics of their house on the internet? I mean using that excuse of 'pics of their house were posted on teh internet' is the stupidist thing I have ever heard. Them and 300 million other people have their homes on the internet. My goodness, if your home was ever listed for sale it is on the internet.

Hinson abused his position. That is all there is to it. And if there is an election coming up that might affect his bosses, folks are going to remember.

Anonymous said...

Junkster, I have to agree with your assessment of the response by the General Counsel. What I find peculiar is how does one know if mail is being stolen from one's mailbox? From what I've gathered, mail theft is to be reported to the US Postal Inspection Service unless you happen to catch someone in the act of stealing your mail which would prompt a 911 call. Plus, the wording on the response about photographs being taken and mail being stolen "during the investigation" warrants an additional response as your post explains.
One other thing puzzles me - if a photo of their residence was posted on the internet, was the owner of the site it was posted on also investigated? Please forgive me if I've missed it, but I have not seen a picture of the famous residence on this blog.

Anonymous said...

Re: Hebrew and Greek. As information, Daniel spoke and wrote in Aramaic when he was in Persia. The Christians were first called Christians at Antioch of Syria and they spoke and wrote in Old Syriac. Strange that most theologians while telling us what an English word means in Hebrew or Greek never mention Aramaic or Old Syriac. In order to have a complete and clear understanding of the languages wouldn't you expect to hear that from time to time? I suggest we learn the English which is our native tounge as a lifetime study in our language will better prepare us in understanding the Bible rather than foreign languages unless you want to know these four along with German and Latin. Just thinking. I am sure to be "corrected" by Matt and other scholars. Gentlemen.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon 8:06

A picture of the Brunson's house was posted on this blog by me during October. It was obtained from the Google "street maps" website. Its clear that is what it was, since the photo controls are on the picture.

Thy Peace said...

Lydia, God bless you. I feel honored.

About the house picture: I also later posted a google link that shows the hoouse in street view.

From my reading, Fbc Jax Leadership needs to brush up their internet outlook. If from the depositions, it is found that this Google picture is one of the causes for issuing a criminal subpoena, then truly Fbc Jax, JSO, and SAO will become the laughing stock on the internet.

Thy Peace said...

Off Topic:

let's stop pastor darrell gilyard together > Just a Man.
Darrell received his sentence today and was led away in handcuffs. I look at this picture and I see just a man. Not a Pastor or any other label - just a man that has been broken by sin.

Jacksonville News > Jacksonville pastor begins prison sentence - Gilyard to serve 3 years for sex crimes against teenage church members.

News4Jax > Ex-Pastor Sentenced On Sex Charges - Darrell Gilyard Pleaded Guilty Last Month To Lewd Conduct, Molestation.

First Coast News > Former Pastor Gilyard Gets Three Years in Prison.

Dingleberry said...

Wow. The response by the JSO is absurd. It's almost as if they didn't even try to cover anything up. If someone was stalking Mrs. Brunson, then a police report should have been filed and Hinson should not be involved since it did not involve the church, but was a personal matter.

Stolen mail should be reported to the police as well as to the USPS. There should be written reports of both.

A photo of their residence is public information, and that defense is absurd. This whole thing is absurd.

Anonymous said...

Re: Hebrew and Greek. As information, Daniel spoke and wrote in Aramaic when he was in Persia. The Christians were first called Christians at Antioch of Syria and they spoke and wrote in Old Syriac. Strange that most theologians while telling us what an English word means in Hebrew or Greek never mention Aramaic or Old Syriac. In order to have a complete and clear understanding of the languages wouldn't you expect to hear that from time to time? I suggest we learn the English which is our native tounge as a lifetime study in our language will better prepare us in understanding the Bible rather than foreign languages unless you want to know these four along with German and Latin. Just thinking. I am sure to be "corrected" by Matt and other scholars. Gentlemen.

June 11, 2009 10:01 PM

Interesting thoughts. I always keep in mind that the NT was written in Greek by Hebrew thinkers.

Matt

Anonymous said...

There will always be those who try to sell us what we can have for free.

Rich preachers belong in hell. The queer thing is they know it. The sad thing is they take their defenders with them.

It is easier for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Anonymous said...

How does one determine the difference between mail being stolen and mail never delivered?

Wouldn't it be necessary for someone to observe the mail theft in progress? And, if observed, why wasn't it stopped then and there or why wasn't the thief identified and reported?

I go to my mailbox every day. How can I tell if something that isn't there was stolen?

And how does one determine that one is being stalked (or followed) without seeing the stalker/follower? Does the JSO make a standard practice to investigate paranoia?

This is all just too bizarre!

Former FBC Insider said...

I was thinking the same thing about 'mail being stolen'... if you don't have it in your box you don't know if it was stolen, you don't even know it was coming or sent UNLESS... it was Mac's big ole paycheck!!! He would be waiting on that one.

Also, do they still have those old fashion individual mail boxes in Deerwood or do they have the ones like in my neighborhood that look like tanks and you have a key for the LOCK on it? You'd need a crowbar to steal from mine.

Anonymous said...

As I think most of us have figured out, these so called "happenings" never happened. I can't imagine anyone being interested in stalking Mrs. Brunson. Jax Beach is full of ladies to watch if anyone were so inclined. Which most of us are not. Who cares to waste their time in such a pursuit? Keep in mind one would have to get "inside" of a Gated Community to perpetrate these actions. Unless one already lived inside the area. So why pick on another person across town that just happens to be blogging questions to the preacher, because he is a concerned member. Come on now see it for what it is. The previous blogger hit on it when he said; "how do you determine mail stolen and mail not delivered"? And if either of these imaginary things did happen why was it not reported at that time. This was an invented scenario in order to get the identity of the WD. This accusation is so thin you can see through it! Some people think themselves so important that the world revolves around them. They must be given the respect they think they deserve and above all adored and never, ever, questioned. And, of course they must receive the attention that their "celebrity status" deserves. It's all about them, and the money that comes with the position. For goodnes sake don't get between them and the money! So all of this trouble bogging down an already crowded court docket came about because the questions of a blogger (which speaks for many) got under the skin of a celebrity preacher. The attitude is if they don't drink the kool-aid, give them trespass papers and throw them out. Better just Xerox trespass papers and fill in the blanks with names of members that are really tired of what their church has become.

Anonymous said...

So, in other words, the Brunsons LIED in order to get the identity of the blogger? Why doesn't everybody just come out and say it?

Well, did they?

Former FBC Insider said...

If it smells like a duck...

Anonymous said...

You guys are flat-out right-on! And let me tell you something, if these goof-ball, made-up, ludicrous, completely unsubstantiated allegations came from some random Joe Sixpack and not the Almighty Brunsons, they would of been laughed out of court - if anyone even paid attention in the first place. Shows you how paid-off everyone one is and the lack of backbone when this fake "investigation" into NOTHINGNESS has gone this far.

Doug said...

Why would anyone want this man Brunson to go to another church and destroy it too?

He needs to be selling popcorn at a Tampa Bay game not out destroying another church

That is what these men do, destroy a church or families then move on with sites on another hoping they follow his cultist teachings.

oops... they use the term "Called"

yeah right, why don't we ever hear of ANY of these high priced club member pastors ever go to a small church with NOT many members or huge dollar comp plans, IF they are truly called?

Poor in Jax said...

I find the response from JSO too funny. Did you think they were going to admit they were wrong? That line about if the Church would have complained to another Officer It would still be investagated by Hinson. So i guess they have no other Detectives that could have done it to avoid a conflict of intrest? So what your left with is a Officer that gets paid by the Church that uses the Power of the State to do its bidding. Im still confused as to how any mail was stolin from a mailbox in Deerwood. I have worked in there many times and they are locked boxes. And as the wife of a Mega Church Pastor, does that make her a public figure? And if it does, Can one expect to have a photo took now and then? Where is the threat here? Its like your urinating on my leg while telling me its raining. It dont add up. JSO,SAO,FBCJax are like ants in a tolet. They cling to each other as they all go down togather.

Anonymous said...

"He needs to be selling popcorn at a Tampa Bay game"

I am on the Dog's side 100%, but that is really, really low. Real tacky comment. I am sure those that do sell you popcorn don't appreciate being put-down like that. They probably know they don't do much but you know what, at least they've got humility and dignity which is alot more than your classless comment.

Anonymous said...

Normally when paparazzi take pictures of a celebrity they are posted on the internet or sold to a magazine. Question, where are these pictures? Where is ANY of the documentation to back up these "assumptions." Where are pictures or witnesses of someone actually taking pictures or stealing mail. Where are the police reports reporting such goings on, AT THAT TIME of the alleged incident, not months or years later, when it is convenient to use as a way of getting an identification of a blog owner. Give me a break!!! Even the "judge" is going to have trouble stretching this one!

Doug said...

Anon 11:02 AM

Take a baby aspirin and get over it.

Your right, popcorn sellers should be upset allowing someone like him to be used in the same sentence or terms as them.

I love popcorn

Anonymous said...

Wouldn't these "incidents" have been reported to the Deerwood Security as well? Evidently they aren't doing their job too well if folks can just get in there and tamper with mail. Maybe they need to be deposed too!

jsrmaypearl said...

I try to keep up with this blog weekly just because it is interesting to read the threads and although I almost always am disgusted by what I read, I refrain from commenting. Today, I felt like I needed to.

1. It has disgusted me over the past few years to read the words posted by this blogger. Just because you disagree with the way your church was moving, posting a blog about it was/is no way to voice your opinion. Regardless of the size of your church, this was not necessary. There is a better way to handle it. And if it could not be handled, you change churches. By attacking your Church and Pastor, you have been a stumbling block not only to those who support you, but also to those who are not Churched. You will answer for this one day. I assure you.

2. Although I cannot support your blog, I also see that your rights might have been infringed upon. Unless there was speculation of stalking or criminal activity (which the authorities claim there is), your identity should not have been revealed. However, it has. And you claim to have moved churches. Unless you are out for a buck (which you seem to potentially be), discontinue the blog and move on with your life.

3. To the users who post disgusting things on here, like for example the comment that "Rich Pastors belong in Hell" What an unbelievable comment. Who are you to pass judgement on one of God's children because a Pastor is compensated well by a Church that approves their own budget. I will pray for the maker of that comment.

My apologies for the long response, but I hope you all wake up, seek Christ in prayer and devotion and move on with Uplifting the Kingdom as opposed to tearing it down.

SAB said...

ISRMAYPEARL,
Change was forced upon the church by those outside the local body. That is those brought in (Called in) forced the change on the long time members. I know, this happened to the church I attend.

Anonymous said...

Yes, the case number in the state court was, indeed, 16-2009-CA-006666! The new case number in U.S. Dist. Ct., Middle Dist. of Florida, is 3:09-cv-00454. The case can be tracked on Pacer, for those who have access to it. Both the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office and Office of State Attorney have filed motions to dismiss, stating that you can't sue police departments, sheriff's departments and state agencies. Dawg you might need to sue Hinson and Brunson individually.

Anonymous said...

"By attacking your Church and Pastor, you have been a stumbling block not only to those who support you, but also to those who are not Churched. You will answer for this one day. I assure you."

So St. John had to answer for 'attacking' Diotrephes in a letter for all to read for 2000 years? Or how about Paul for publicly humiliating Peter and then writing about it to another church!

What you call an attack, I call making information known that is unbiblical by a pastor.

"2. Although I cannot support your blog, I also see that your rights might have been infringed upon. Unless there was speculation of stalking or criminal activity (which the authorities claim there is), your identity should not have been revealed. However, it has. And you claim to have moved churches. Unless you are out for a buck (which you seem to potentially be), discontinue the blog and move on with your life."

This just shows your ignorance. This will probably (and probably has) cost him money. You honestly think he will get a monetary settlement from the government?

"3. To the users who post disgusting things on here, like for example the comment that "Rich Pastors belong in Hell" What an unbelievable comment. Who are you to pass judgement on one of God's children because a Pastor is compensated well by a Church that approves their own budget. I will pray for the maker of that comment."

I agree that comment was tacky. But who are YOU to pass judgement on the person who made the comment? See how that works?

Rich pastors are becoming a problem in this country. Of course you are quite free to help make them richer if you like. It is only a snare for them, though and turns your church into Gospel for profit. But that is your choice.

"My apologies for the long response, but I hope you all wake up, seek Christ in prayer and devotion and move on with Uplifting the Kingdom as opposed to tearing it down."

This is the kind of self righteous comment I have seen from folks excusing pedophile ministers. If you talk about it, you are not uplifting the Kingdom. Better to keep quiet about false teaching and blantent sin. AFter all, if know one knows then more can get saved.

Guess what? Not true. What are they being saved 'to' when Jesus Christ has removed His Lampstand from a fake church?

You want to know how seriously God took sin the early church? Read Acts 5. Ever wonder why He does not strike us down now? Because He is NOT THERE. These institutions do not belong to Him. They belong to man because they are man centered.

Anonymous said...

"Both the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office and Office of State Attorney have filed motions to dismiss, stating that you can't sue police departments, sheriff's departments and state agencies"


What kind of defense is that??? YES YOU CAN! ANYONE OR ANY ENTITY CAN BE SUED! These people are INSANE! Oh so they can break the law and not go to jail too. Please! These people have no defense. Unbelieveable. Florida is messed-up place to live. Who runs things down there?

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:41. Uplifting the Kingdom is what a lot of us are doing, unfortunately some pastors are making it rather difficult for us. Obviously you have never been on the "receiving end" of what some members have experienced from their "church". Believe me churches and pastors are just as capable of unjust behavior as any blogger. Once you have had it happen to "you" or someone close to you, let me tell you it is an eyeopener. So spare me the "I am so disgusted", and the "move on" speech. Been there, done that. You never think it can happen until it happens to you. Pastors and church leaders are still just humans after all. They are just as capable of sin as the rest of us. Just because they "control" a "church" means nothing.

Anonymous said...

I assume about 20 odd years ago the sheriff and others probably filed motions to dismiss a suit concerning an inmate who tried to escape the jail via several tied together sheets. His attempt failed and the sheets broke allowing him to fall, whereupon, he broke a leg. He sued the city and won approximately $185,000.00. So nothing is a sure bet anymore.

Anonymous said...

Anon.4:56 Lampstand Removed: Great comment! This is exactly what has happened to FBCJ and many, many other so called churches. Those that remain in these institutions are just attending "empty shrines to man".

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:38

"Florida is messed-up place to live. Who runs things down there?"

FBC has "run" this town for YEARS. With any luck most of us are hoping for an end to that.

I don't know about anyone else, but if WD ran for mayor I'd vote for him!

Anonymous said...

Everyone should read Florida Statutes 768.28. It allows state agencies to be sued. No problem.

Anonymous said...

Anon:June 12, 2009 6:49 PM
I couldn't agree more! Pastors and Church Leaders just want members with any problem at all to just be quiet or move on. They want to be allowed to continue doing what they are doing and answer to no one. If you disagree with anything, then you are being Un-Christian. Not So! We as Christians are to be discerning and to always strive for what is right, even in our Church.

Anonymous said...

Dog and all:

Just wanted to let you know that I took a look at the Complaint, the Answers of Hinson and Seigel, and the Memorandum in Support of motion to dismiss filed by the JSO and the SAO.

Hinson and Seigel claim that the complaint fails to state claim for relief, which is like saying there is no legal case against them, even if everything stated in the complaint is true. Hinson claims qualified immunity as a police office and Seigel claims absolute immunity as an attorney for the SAO.

The JSO and SAO have not filed answers but have filed the motions to dismiss. They basically say that you can't sue the office of the sheriff (as opposed to the deputy) and that you can't sue the State Attorney's office - under the theories advanced - 42 U.S.C. section 1983.

This is a question of law for the court, I believe.

The Complaint alleges that Mr. Rich had a First Amendment Right to Anonymous blogging. I don't know the answer to that. I don't know if it's been addressed before.

The Complaint also alleges that the right to blog anonymously is part of the exercise of Mr. Rich's religious beliefs, and that his exposure violated the exercise of his religion.

Mrs. Rich's claims all involve loss of consortium based on the violation Mr. Rich's rights.

And it alleges that the act of Officer Hinson and attorney Seigel (and their employers) engaged in an establishment of religion by making state service available to FBC jax.

Mr. Rich has until the end of the month to file a response to the JSO and ASO motions to dismiss.

If those parties are dismissed, Hinson and Seigel are still parties. There will apparently be some discovery (?) before they try to get out of the suit on motions for summary judgment.

Unless you are a party on an attorney for one of the parties, my encouragement is to not bet on or get too emotionally invested in lawsuits!

Louis

Anonymous said...

Louis. The point is "constitutional rights". We are losing them left and right. Its time more people like Mr. Rich stood up and said enough is enough. I personally do not like Communism or Dictatorships. I don't think religious beliefs has any merit whatsoever. Its the constitution and the bill of rights that is at stake here.Thank you.

Anonymous said...

If we lose our Rights, the next thing to go will be the Freedom to Worship. We are FAST losing everything America has stood for. I see on TV every day one more Right going by the wayside. Euthanasia of the old, those considered too "sick" to keep alive, or maybe political opponets is probably not too far off. Where are the "Preachers" standing against this???? Where are the "statesmen"? What "preacher" do you know standing in the gap??? Oh, that's right they are taking cruises down the Danube. Or "big game hunters" shooting helpless anaimals in THEIR OWN HABITAT, in Africa. Then spending large amounts of money to mount their( dead animals) heads on a wall. How many PEOPLE could have had food for a week on this same money. Preachers should be held to a higher standard than the general public. They after all represent THEMSELVES as "special called by God persons." Then they should behave like same. Some things should be "by-passed", for the sake of the "called ones" (?) ministry. As my Grandmother was fond of saying; "It (behavior) just doesn't look right."