"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Monday, April 26, 2010

Caner 2001 Sermon at Prestonwood: The Worst Deception Yet

"And coming to America I had lived under the misconception that you hated me, as a Muslim. That really affected a lot of what I did in my younger years. I'm not really proud of the fact that I am part of, was part of Islamic Jihad. I'm not proud of the fact that it actually was my people who were involved in what took place in the horror [of 9/11]."


--------

I have maintained that the 11/20/01 sermon at FBC Jax is the most damning evidence against Caner, showing his intentions to deceive unsuspecting Christians over his background right after 9/11. But the Prestonwood Baptist Church sermon from late 2001 takes the cake. It was broadcast TODAY (4/26/10) on Focus on the Family, in their broadcast entitled "From Jihad to Jesus".

It only gets worse for Ergun Caner. The more we hear of his sermons, the more the lies and deceptions mount. The evidence is clear: he purposely misled Christians into thinking he was a trained terrorist, in the Islamic Jihad. The more guys like Tim Guthrie and Tim Rogers defend Caner, the worst it gets for Caner. Men that should be helping Caner see his need to confess and repent, are only making it worse for their friend.

Here are some of Caner's quotes from this whopper of a sermon preached by Caner shortly after 9/11 at Prestonwood Baptist Church:

"I was born in Sweden, raised in Turkey, came to America in 1978. When I came to America I came through Brooklyn, New York, of all places, which is where I learned English."

Unbelievable. Standing in front of shell-shocked Christians after 9/11, and Caner betrays their confidence by lying about where he was raised, where he learned English, and when he came to America. That is deception. A man that is misusing the pulpit to purposely mislead people about who he is and were he is from has no business being in the pulpit.

"English was not my first language....and I walked into that little church, my English was very poor...they didn't make fun of my accent, they didn't make fun of the clothes that I wore, or make fun of the fact that I wore a turbin, they didn't call me a 'towel-head'....a year later, still young in Christ, still with very bad English, I came forward in my little country church that loved me, and I surrendered to preach."

Notice, he wants people to think he was an immigrant as a teenager that could not speak English...when the fact is he was raised in America and spoke perfect English.

"I am not, um, I am not just a Muslim, I am not just a Sunni, and I wasn't just, um, involved in Islamic Jihad. I was the son of a Muasin, that's the cleric, the one who does the call to prayer, the beginning of the prayer time..."

Holy Cow!!! The man is telling people that he was raised in Turkey and was in Islamic Jihad! He wants people to think he was a trained terrorist. He did the same at FBC Jax on 11/20/01.

"I spent the first 17 years of my life assuming that you as Christians hated me. I mean I had never been in a church, I had never really been around too many Christians, there's not that many of them in Turkey or in Sweden..."

More outright deception. The man is saying that he grew up in Turkey, and thus was not exposed to Christians. He grew up in Columbus, Ohio. I assume he grew up with plenty of Christian friends.

"And coming to America I had lived under the misconception that you hated me, as a Muslim. That really affected a lot of what I did in my younger years. I'm not really proud of the fact that I am part of, was part of Islamic Jihad. I'm not proud of the fact that it actually was my people who were involved in what took place in the horror."

Now he is really laying it on thick. He is saying that as a youth he was part of the terrorists, that in his "younger years" he was involved with "his people" that committed the terror of 9/11. Creates a great story line: youth trained in terrorist Jihad came to America and found Jesus, else he would have been one of the 9/11 terrorists. Please. Why can't Caner just tell the truth about his youth?

"Do you know that most of the people, most of the Muslims, who were here on the bombing day, were shocked and horrified by what took place. Most Muslims were shocked by the bombing. Do you know why? Because here in America, Jihad is theory. But from where I come from, in Europe and the Middle East, Jihad is sadly, a fact of life. I was raised in it."

Again, purposeful deception to paint himself as an expert of Jihad, that he experienced it in Europe and the Middle East.

"Five times a day, even when I was in high school, even in Brooklyn, New York, I would get my prayer rug out of my closet, out of my locker, and roll it out in the, in the bathroom, and do my prayer."

OK, so he was in high school in Brooklyn, New York? I thought it was in Columbus, Ohio...when did he move to Brooklyn from Columbus?

Unbelievable. The more that comes out about the deceptions, and the more his peers defend him and don't call for him to publicly confess and repent, the harder the eventual fall will be.

And the more embarrassing it will be to us in the Southern Baptist Convention, that we didn't do our due diligence, and we bought his deception hook, line, and sinker.

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

This is about protecting Patterson at all costs. That is why the vitriol, straw men arguements and illogic being spewed by the Baptist Identity folks. Patterson promoted Caner like he did Gilyard. And notice how he slithered out of that one. He is STILL a seminary president. Even after Klouda and a rap sheet of sins and deceptions a mile long over the last 30 years.

Debbie Kaufman said...

Jax: And do you know how many people listen to Focus On The Family? In one sweep, another thousands plus folks got sucked into the Caner fake background and bought it hook line and sinker. Notice that not even the men on Focus ever questioned. This is the first time they have ever played Ergun Caner as far as I know, having listened to Focus for 20 plus years. I wonder if....naw couldn't be. Could it?

Anonymous said...

I remember hearing an interview with Mike Warnke on Focus back in the 80's.

Anonymous said...

Discernment. Whatever happened to spiritual discernment among believers? When we lose that we will buy into all of the garbage like the Caner Deception.

Anonymous said...

It is amazing that Peter Lumpkins and Tim Guthrie defend Ergun Caner.... What do they do with the evidence and what was played on the air from Focus on the Family?

Peter and Tim, what sayest thou?

with that, I am

Anon Ymous (former pagan)

Anonymous said...

It appears a lot of people have been duped.

But it is the Southern Baptist community that is breaking this story and spreading this message.

I suspect that it is hard for people to rebuke friends and people with whom they agree on many issues. That is clearly what is happening here and why the momentum to say anything is slow. Also, the fact that it is, in some cases, people who have different perspectives that have discovered this and brought it up makes it all the more difficult for Dr. Caner's SBC friends to deal with it.

Of course, that doesn't explain Focus on the Family. But there may be an embarrassment factor there, I suppose.

For now, it seems to me that Liberty has the only decision to make, inasmuch as he is an employee there.

The rest of these folks only have to deal with whether to rebuke or denounce him, and if so, how publicly and in what terms. That can be tricky. Gilyard (sp?) probably preached in lots of churches over the years. I don't know what the churches where he preached have done, did etc.

I am so glad that my church doesn't have these type speakers. And if we did, we probably would do a background check first.

Unfortunately, there may now be a market for that. A business that does fact checking on speakers who are coming to your church.

Louis

Anonymous said...

Ergun Caner tells the Prestonwood group that he came to "this little Country church" with a turbin on his head, however on the fake ex muslims youtube clips pt. 1 just over one minute into it, Caner states that "he never wore his laundry on his head". Which one is the correct story?

Debbie Kaufman said...

Jax: This is your best post yet. And yes, I believe it will be an embarrassment to the SBC or at least it should be, what I think should turn the tide in the SBC hasn't shown much so far. But as a good friend told me, for 4 years I have seen the seedy side and not the beauty, so I forget that God does things in his way and in his time. It could be that he hardened the heart of those in the SBC. Or it could be that he is going to do something I am not seeing him do now. But this is good stuff Jax. Two thumbs up from me for what it is worth. That elephant in the room is getting bigger and bigger..

Thy Peace said...

John Ankerberg has filed a copyright infringement against Mohammad Khan, for a removal of youtube videos.

Ministry of Reconciliation [Debbie Kaufman] > John Ankerberg Has Had Part 3 of Mohammad’s Videos Removed.

I am hoping Mohammad Khan will retain a lawyer and possibly file a counter notice, as this is protected by Fair Use, and it's Principles.

Doug said...

I wonder if the Florida Baptist Convention President will fly up to Liberty to "Stand by his Man" too

Oh me, Oh me..

Anyone listening? What your hearing is their answer - Silence.

The Baptist taught way - I G N O R E

Anonymous said...

All this is called "spin", my friend. The goal is to take the ordinary and twist and turn the facts to make the ordinary extraordinary. Sadly, there is a market for spin. People want to be entertained and titillated. The greater the spin, the more in demand the speaker. People today want their ears tickled. They want shock and awe instead of the plain old truth. I beleive speakers like
Ergun Caner soon get confused about what is truth and what is fiction re: their stories. And they eventually get entangled in the spin they have created. BTW,
"spin" is just a plain old lie but
the word "spin" makes it sound so much nicer.

Thy Peace said...

Off Topic:

What the Police do to over-reach for a missing iPhone ... doing the bidding of LARGE companies (Apple)

EFF > OverREACTing: Dissecting the Gizmodo Warrant.

Thy Peace said...

Thoughts of Francis Turretin > Compare and Contrast.

Dr. Ergun Caner (actual quotation): "All Christian ministers have critics. Some mean well; Others are just corrosive. U can't shut them up, but U CAN SHUT THEM OUT." (source).

A Squirrel in Babylon > More Questions in Search of Answers.

Anonymous said...

Ergun Caner tells the Prestonwood group that he came to "this little Country church" with a turbin on his head, however on the fake ex muslims youtube clips pt. 1 just over one minute into it, Caner states that "he never wore his laundry on his head". Which one is the correct story?

April 27, 2010 11:40 AM

turks wear fez's anyway

Anonymous said...

Jax: This is your best post yet. And yes, I believe it will be an embarrassment to the SBC or at least it should be, what I think should turn the tide in the SBC hasn't shown much so far. But as a good friend told me, for 4 years I have seen the seedy side and not the beauty, so I forget that God does things in his way and in his time. It could be that he hardened the heart of those in the SBC. Or it could be that he is going to do something I am not seeing him do now. But this is good stuff Jax. Two thumbs up from me for what it is worth. That elephant in the room is getting bigger and bigger..

April 27, 2010 12:22 PM

God has been doing something.

This is hard for folks to fathom but God's judgement has come. Those with eyes to see can see it.

If we have to debate whether or not the appointed leaders are saved or if they have good fruit then that IS judgement.

We get confused on this matter because we do not understand the teaching on sin and salvation properly. And we have had it drilled into our heads that we are never allowed to question current salvation. We do not know IF someone will be saved...and that is completely different from recognizing rotten fruit that cannot be born out of sanctification over a long period.

I expect a lot of disagreement with me on this because so many have been taught incorrectly for so long.

The fact the SBC or any other "Christian" group or movement has such celebrated but questionable leaders is a sign of God's judgement.

Get out.

Matt

Anonymous said...

Matt - you are correct, brother. I have gotten my family out. It was not easy. Most of my family just wished I would say nothing out of fear my kids will drop out of church and get into the world. That threat is always there even if they stayed in any of the large, mega country club Baptist churches anyway.

What has happened, is that my children now have discernment. They see the phoniness of these mega pastors AND many of their congregants. They are learning to seek Jesus, they are learning to serve HIM, not the church staff or buildings instead.

They are getting to know God now, through Jesus, more intimately and He is more real than the false materialistic God the imposters have been preaching and teaching about.

So, I also encourage folks to "get out", even if you have kids. Otherwise, your kids will throw it all out once they become adults because this nonsense they see now will not keep them committed. Don't be afraid to point out these frauds and charlatans, while being equally diligent in pointing out to them the real preachers, real messages from God delivered by a faithful preacher, and introducing them to the God of Justice, the God who ministers to the poor and needy and down and out.

This rich, country club, Western religion we call "Baptists" sucks. And our kids need to know it.

Anonymous said...

Here we go again, trying to take down Ergun. He has already said he misspoke, what do you want...His tonsils! I am amazed that you are able to sleep at night knowing that you are constantly looking to tear down Churches and Pastors and Evangelists like your the Holy Ghost CIA! Why don't you take a look within...is it your responsibilty to straighten Ergun out? Have you tried to contact him? I bet not...that's too Biblical! Call Liberty, set up a phone call with the administration, have you tried...no...it's more fun to tear down that to really find the truth! This is a page out of McCarthyism...your a communist, a communist, a communist...it must be so...I said it three times

Anonymous said...

So, I also encourage folks to "get out", even if you have kids.

Amen, brother to your entire comment. I will say that it is even more important to get out for the sake of your kids. It is amazing how quick kids can spot a phony. They look to us to see if their view is correct or not. But what is worse, they start to view the Body as fun and games only. Entertainment. They know nothing of persecution or suffering for His Name or the real truth about living unsanctified lives.

There have been tons of studies on this. Most young adults leave Christianity when they get out of the youth group and go to college. Some call it backsliding but it is not. They were never really saved unto salvation to begin with. One never leaves their First Love for long periods of time. The Holy Spirit would not allow it.

Anon wrote:

"Have you tried to contact him? I bet not...that's too Biblical!"

What are you referring to? Matt 18? If so, it does not fit the context. Caner did not sin against me personally and since he is a public teacher who goes to great lengths to promote himself and his teaching, representing the Lord publicly , he is open to public rebuke. Are you familiar with the passage where Paul rebuked Peter publicly for his sinful behavior toward the Gentiles?

I have to wonder why you think contacting Liberty would bring a cogent explanation. If there is one why not make it public? At this point, what evidence is there that I should believe what Liberty says on this topic?

Teaching that all rebukes of public teachers displaying rotten behavior or wrong teaching should be private is not biblical. But it sure protects them to teach folks that very wrong doctrine.

Matt

Anonymous said...

Misspoke how many times?

Seriously, there are too many sermons, too many videos, too many claims, too many stories, too many legal documents, too many discrepancies to be simply explained away as "Uh...I misspoke...", especially when it comes to your own freaking childhood.

We have Mike Warnke v2.0 and we have pretty much the same crew circling the same wagons.

This guy has profited from being a tremendous storyteller and playing on our emotions. I'd also call him 'Simon' but I'm sure people will think that's too harsh as well.

Jim said...

Watchdog, this is off-point but related to the current discussion. Just heard on the local news that Jacksonville City Councilman, Don Redman, challenged a Muslim college professor to "pray to your god..." during Redman's opposition to the gentleman's appointment to a voluntary seat on the city's Human Rights Commission. What does this have to do with your blog? Redman is a deacon at First Baptist Church. Don Redman an embarrassment to the cause of Christ and to the city of Jacksonville. I am disgusted and ashamed that such brazen ignorance was voted into office by the people of District 4 in my city. My mission, during the next election, is to do all I can to insure he is not reelected.

Anonymous said...

It is interesting that Caner's writing partner, Mac Brunson, has been silent during all these "accusations". Surely Mac would speak out on behalf of his "friend". But maybe Mac is hoping no one will remember the book he and Caner wrote together. Ironically, it was titled "Why Churches Die: the Lethal Poisons in the Body of Christ". They are certainly writing about something they know intimately, as they are a part of the "lethal poison" destroying the SBC today.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Jim: just a minor point of clarification: I don't believe Redman is a deacon, only an usher.

I will watch the news tonight and see what is up with this. I know that Clay Yarbrough is a member of FBC Jax and also on the city council, and he has been a vocal opponent of this man's appointment to the Human Right's council.

Slow to speak said...

"Why don't you call Liberty?" "Why don't you call Dr. Caner?" Great Questions!! As you can see, there is no response to those questions because the answer is....NO! The "good Christians" on this Blog want to throw mud, make accusations, and spread rumors (all in Jesus Name). Hate is ugly. Bitterness is a cancer. Gossip is a sin. Oh, no one on this Blog sins, it's only Caner, Mega Pastors, and Christian leaders....hypocrites!

TRB said...

Slow to Speak: From what I've read on other blogs, that's been done time and again with no response from Dr. Caner or Liberty.

TRB

Doug Pittman said...

Slow to speak said...April 27, 2010 8:15 PM

"Why don't you call Liberty?" "Why don't you call Dr. Caner?" Great Questions!! As you can see, there is no response to those questions because the answer is....NO! The "good Christians" on this Blog want to throw mud, make accusations, and spread rumors (all in Jesus Name). Hate is ugly. Bitterness is a cancer. Gossip is a sin. Oh, no one on this Blog sins, it's only Caner, Mega Pastors, and Christian leaders....hypocrites!

Hey I did, and got no return call. And I also emailed his brother...

Here is what I said in the email to Emir at his email address at Truett....

"Please send me a bio / story on your history as a Muslim. I am interested in hearing how you became Baptist along with your brother.

Please email asap or send me a link on your websites.

Thanks

Doug Pittman"

Response: Crickets - Nothing....

So Slow to Speak, take your own advice....why don't you email me - bet ya won't...

Doug

Jim said...

My apologies, Watchdog. Redman was identified by the First Coast News team as a deacon at First Baptist Church. My concern is not with whether Dr. Ahmed should have been appointed. I was, and am, amazed that an elected official would challenge a nominee for any city-sponsored position to "pray to your god." I do not believe such a challenge has any place in a democratic society. Perhaps if Dr. Ahmed had been a "fake" Muslim after the fashion of the Caner brother"s, Mr. Redman would not have had an issue with his appointment and would not have issued the challenge.

Anonymous said...

I have a really difficult time not seeing a response from Mac Brunson, the man who apparently had a formerly great concern for what was written in this blog.

Is Mac Brunson whipped? Is this why he does not answer any of these charges for his writing buddy? How else can he let this go by? Maybe he knows the truth about Ergun, and perhaps there are money reasons why neither seems overly concerned. Just maybe?

Joe

Bennett Willis said...

As part of my personal plan on how to deal with this issue, I have resolved (among other things) not to buy books by Dr. Caner. Just to see "what I was not going to buy", I went to Amazon. There I found a quote from the book (Chapter 13 of the "look inside" information on case studies, I think) that Dr. Caner wrote with Dr. Brunson. It goes something like this, "The authors emphatically insist that private sin, private confession--public sin, public confession." Since all the surrounding discussion is not included, I cheerfully jumped to the conclusion that it might be applicable/relevant to this problem--and I am sure that someone with the whole book will correct me if I am wrong. Finding this caused me to laugh aloud--about the only thing funny I have found in this whole discussion. [http://www.amazon.com/Why-Churches-Die-Diagnosing-Poisons/dp/0805431810#reader_0805431810]

Bennett Willis

Anonymous said...

Did Focus on the Family remove Caner's audio? The link is broken today, and it was not yesterday. If so, good on them.

Anonymous said...

Is 'pathological' an adjective to be at all applied to Caner's lies? Or not?

Anonymous said...

Oh, no one on this Blog sins, it's only Caner, Mega Pastors, and Christian leaders....hypocrites!

April 27, 2010 8:15 PM

At least we are not paid big bucks to sin as professional Christians. These guys make a big living off sinning and 'branding' themselves. Serious stuff. They peddle themselves as some sort of special anointed for profit and profane HIS NAME. The one that said we must take up our cross and follow Him.

Anonymous said...

Here is a remembrance of Ergun Caners appearance on the Focus on The Family web site:

RESOURCE LIST: TESTIMONIES
... ╩║From Jihad to Jesus╩║ (Dr. Ergun Caner) • 5008446 • Ergun Caner believed Christians hated Muslims until he encountered one who reached out to him with ...

PDF file

Kelly said...

Something I find quite fitting: if one searches Google with the terms "ergun caner" (at least in the Firefox 3.6.3 search bar, as of today), the second link is this.

The hyperlink refers to Caner's "debate" page (which contains a single--yes, one--email exchange between Caner and Nadir Ahmed [not to belabor the point, but his "debate" page boasts a single email exchange]), and Mr. Nadir Ahmed's
statement found therein: "No, that was NOT your statement. Dr. Ergun Caner, let me remind you that we have your statement recorded on audio, there is no use hiding...," etc.

It seems the best thing that Dr. Caner could do for himself and Liberty and that school's students would be to refrain from speaking in venues that are audio- and/or video-recorded.

And, other than social media updates (via Twitter and Facebook, for example), he seems to have done so for several months now.

That strikes me as wise.

When he speaks about things other than hockey or Coldplay (e.g., Baptist history or Islam or his own background), it generally doesn't end well for him.

Bennett Willis said...

Elmer Towns, co-founder of Liberty University and dean of the School of Religion, says there will be no official reprimand or demotion of Ergun Caner. Towns, who had a hand in hiring Caner, says the Liberty board has held an inquiry and directors are satisfied that Caner has done nothing theologically inappropriate.
"It's not an ethical issue, it's not a moral issue," Towns told Christianity Today on April 27. "We give faculty a certain amount of theological leverage. The arguments of the bloggers would not stand up in court." http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/mayweb-only/28-11.0.html

I'd add something, but what can you add to this.

Bennett Willis

Bennett Willis said...

The Living with Joy site does not seem to have anything when you seach for Caner.