"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Thursday, December 2, 2010

Conflicts of Interest - Vivid Contrast Between Sheriff's Office and State Attorney - Bravo to Corey and McCarthy

"Perception issues must be considered by all public servants, and Ms. Corey has a very clear and strict policy that employees of the State Attorney's Office must refrain from inappropriate involvement in cases where they have a personal interest. This is necessary to make sure the line between official duties, and matters of personal motive or concern, are never blurred." Dan McCarthy, State Attorney's Office Press Release 11/30/10.
--------------------

This past week there has been a very interesting front page news story in Jacksonville about a state attorney investigator's "conflict of interest" and the resulting actions taken by State Attorney Angela Corey and Chief Assistant Dan McCarthy.

Here's the scoop: as the Florida Times Union reported, a state attorney's office investigator, Scott Hughes, accessed a confidential law enforcement database to investigate the father of a local high school football player. Hughes apparently is the offensive coordinator of a rival high school, and he was trying to determine if the player's father had residency in the county where the boy was playing. Interestingly, Hughes was a Lieutenant with the Sheriff's Office until 2009 when he was hired by Corey.

But the good news, as I will explain, is Angela Corey's office has quickly admitted the conflict of interest or at least the perception of one, has admonished the investigator, and has warned everyone else in the office of the penalties if they do the same. (read the press release here).

But I bring this up here because in our recently settled lawsuit with the JSO in Rich v. City of Jacksonville, one of the main points of contention during discovery was whether the investigating officer, Robert Hinson, had a conflict of interest and should have recused himself. Our contention in the lawsuit was that the city had no legitimate governmental interest in breaching my First Amendment right to anonymity by identifying the First Baptist blogger (me) through subpoena power, and that Hinson's conflict of interest as a member, employee, and leader of FBC Jax clouded his judgment and that he was using his investigatory powers to run an errand for his church.

Over and over again in deposition, from every JSO official we deposed, it was stated there was ZERO conflict of interest. That because Detective Hinson was assigned to religious institutions, that there was no conflict of interest in him on his own initiative, with no input from his superiors, deciding to "investigate" a blog critical of his own church and pastor and employer, and issue investigative subpoenas from Comcast and Google to get my name, and then destroying the paperwork all with no input from superiors.

However, as it came out finally in deposition, the conflict of interest Hinson had was much deeper than we ever knew or was reported in the media. He was not just a member of the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, and not just an employee of the church, not just a tither to the church as he admitted - but he was also a deacon, and believe it or not...he was actually a member of the discipline committee that was formed through a November 2007 bylaw change pushed through after my blog started and that was tasked with enforcing church discipline on wayward members like myself. Detective Hinson was actually Deacon Hinson, and was appointed by church leaders sometime in 2008 to be on the very discipline committee whose formation I heavily criticized on this blog (here and here).

To make matters even worse, it appeared that Hinson did not disclose this deeper conflict of interest issue right away when the story broke in April 2009 - he certainly didn't disclose it during our 7+ hour deposition of him this past summer, as we apparently didn't ask the right question. His appointment to and membership with the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville Discipline Committee was not discovered until the deposition of John Blount, the church administrator, when we finally asked the question: "Is he [Hinson] a member of the discipline committee?" Answer: "Yes". Could have heard a pin drop in the conference room at that answer - even the city attorney who read his newspaper during depositions stopped reading and took off his reading glasses. :)

So we have two officers: one an Executive Investigator with the State Attorney's office who accessed a criminal database - and a Detective with the Sheriff's Office who pulled investigative subpoenas. The EI was an offensive coordinator of a rival football team trying to determine if the father had lied about residency of his son, which if true could be a crime. The Detective a member, employee, leader and discipliner at the church, investigating a blog critical of his pastor on which no threats were ever made.

Both obvious conflicts of interest, or at least POSSIBLE conflicts of interest that should have caused either man to recuse himself from the investigation to avoid the appearance of impropriety - that is if they believed what they were doing actually was furthering the objectives of the institutions they represented, and they weren't merely doing errands for their personal interests.

But neither man did recuse himself.

But now here's the difference.

The Jacksonville Sheriff's Office never, ever publicly admitted to the conflict of interest on the part of their detective. I asked them in April 2009 to do an Internal Affairs investigation, in which I assume they would have discovered Hinson's deeper conflict of interest as a discipline committee member, but no investigation was ever done, except for Frank Mackesy having a brief discussion with Hinson and his boss just after the April 8, 2009 story hit the front page of the Times Union in April 2009. This is shocking to me, given the obvious First Amendment issues in unmasking an anonymous critic, and that this wasn't an accessed database, but usage of state subpoena power to force under threat of law for a third party to give up private information.

But thankfully, State Attorney Angela Corey and Chief Assistant Dan McCarthy didn't hunker down, didn't backpeddle, didn't defend the indefensible in this recent case with Hughes. They came out right away and admitted the conflict of interest on the part of their investigator, publicly reprimanded him, and then warned all other members of their office that this behavior will absolutely not be tolerated and can result in dismissal.

Some are saying Corey didn't do enough, the investigator should be fired, etc. Others are not so sure, but are very concerned over Hughes' actions. I say Corey and McCarthy have done the RIGHT thing. They did determine Hughes didn't break any law in accessing the database, but that he should have recognized the obvious conflict of interest and recused himself.

Here is an excerpt from the email Dan McCarthy sent all State Attorney employees yesterday:

"Let me make it very clear…ANY use of confidential databases for unofficial purposes will result in job termination. Ditto for conducting an inquiry in which you have a conflict of interest, or where such a perception could be drawn. Consider this the equivalent of DUI or integrity issues. They will not be tolerated. Period.

We all have worked too hard to have the image of SAO stained by isolated actions which do not meet our professional standards. Character counts…so does judgment. As the purveyors of justice in 3 counties we are held to the highest standard of behavior. Always. Ms. Corey and I want exemplary behavior and personal judgment to define us…not the opposite."

Amen and AMEN! The standard is not just conflicts of interests, but even perceptions of conflict of interest. Thank you Dan McCarthy and Angela Corey. You did the RIGHT thing in this case, and you have helped restore some level of faith that misbehavior of "purveyors of justice" in this town will not be tolerated.

And lastly, let me say: given that both Hinson and Hughes are long-time employees of JSO - this should cause citizens of Jacksonville to demand that the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office beef up their training and their rules pertaining to Conflicts of Interest for their detectives and investigators. At least NOW Hughes now knows there is a higher standard at the SAO than at his previous employer, the JSO.

But based on our meeting with Sheriff John Rutherford last month, I am optimistic that he too will do the right thing in the JSO to clarify the seriousness of conflicts of interest, just as Angela Corey has in the SAO.

Bravo once again, Ms. Corey and Mr. McCarthy.

47 comments:

Anonymous said...

What is really telling is Hinson's would have loved to keep his conflict from coming out. Such people of integrity. I am stunned he was not fired as a civil servant.

Anonymous said...

I guess this sums up the intergrity of the discipline committee. Zero.

Anonymous said...

In spite of the clear conflict of interest on the part of Hinson in this matter, the loyal-to-the-pastor' types will grumble on his blog about all this being WD's fault. That he had it coming, that he is a hater, the $50K is filthy lucre, blah, blah, blah.

The facts are clear and scary. Stalinist in their character, Hinson and the so-called 'Discipline Committee' (read: Commissars)trashed the first amendment, all to please the pastor.

To be the guy in a meeting with this crew and to be acknowledged as the guy who 'shut em down', would be quite a little feather in his cap. Man-pleasers and empire builders tend to act that way.

Power is such a corrupting force, it breeds this kind of lackey-ism from the subordinates. This blog has been a real eye opener for me.

Thanks Tom, for making it available. Your story needs to be told, even though it kind of makes you squirm to know leaders in a baptist church have allowed this to happen and fostered the attitude to silent all dissenters.

When Mac was here in Dallas, he got up to the pulpit and read a letter that questioned the demolition of buildings to build another one in its place. He denegrated that poor member from the pulpit, all to show that anyone else that might speak or write against his program would receive similar response.

His shut em down tirade is not new, seen it here in Dallas, years before.
Garlando

The complainers about the $50K settlement should be glad, it should have been much worse.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter if it was a conflict of interest or not. It is an apparent conflict of interest and that is problematic. Those who would say it is just the impression conflict but not really a conflict.

If I as a pastor was not actually having an inappropriate relationship, but the impression was there, who is wrong? I am! I must constantly watch what impressions I am leaving with any and everyone.

Good post, WD!

Anonymous said...

We are called by God to be loyal to our Pastor!

Obey those that have rule over you, & submit yourselves: for they watch over your souls, as those that must give account, that they may do it with joy, & not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." (Heb. 13:17)

THIS IS COMMANDED BY GOD!!!

YOU ARE CAUSING YOUR PASTOR "GRIEF"....

I HURT WHEN I SEE HIM HURTING LIKE THIS...

HE IS SENT BY GOD TO US AND IS GOD'S GIFT TO US!

Thy Peace said...

My observation is that the so called "leaders" at FBC Jax were so blinded by their animus against WD that they could not see the conflict of interest problems.

Thy Peace said...

We are called by God to be loyal to our Pastor!

This is what happens when we do the above at ALL costs ...

Stop Baptist Predators [Christa Brown] > "Deplorable"

Stop Baptist Predators [Christa Brown] > Pastor told member to "keep his mouth shut"

SBC Plodder [William Thornton] > Fastest route for SBC clergy to go to jail...

FBC Jax Watchdog > Examples of the Poor Treatment of Women at the Hands of Jacksonville Churches

Katie said...

Anon 10:29

Great use of scripture out of context. Let's see how is holds up to the light of scrutiny. Are you suggesting that Jesus (the author of scripture) shouldn't have rebuked the Pharisees? Perhaps a complete reading of Hebrews 13 is in order. I'm thinking verse 7 should be a focus.

Christians are accountable to God. How much better it will be for Mac, if he repents of his love of money now, before it is too late. Do you honestly think Jesus would approve of using dishonest methods to gain an advantage against someone? There are times when God removes people from the pulpit, and this might well be one of these times.

The unbelieving world watches the conduct of these men of money and rightly conclude, that Christians are every bit as greedy as anyone else. Why would they want to add that burden to their lives by becoming a Christian. They do not know the gospel, but they can recognize a con man when they see one.

Anonymous said...

As a member of FBCJ I find it appalling that Hinson is a deacon, on the Discipline Committee as well as a so called man to represent the citizens of Jacksonville in the Sheriff's Office

He should have removed himself as it was a direct Conflict of Interest and he himself knew it. He's supposed to make decisions on my behalf at the church . . .don't think so!

Disgusted FBCJ Member!

Anonymous said...

"Obey those that have rule over you, & submit yourselves: for they watch over your souls, as those that must give account, that they may do it with joy, & not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." (Heb. 13:17)

THIS IS COMMANDED BY GOD!!!"

So, I am commanded by God to obey Ted Haggard. Matt Baker? Diotrephes? All they need is a man conferred title and they are to be obeyed? Seems to me that would be very good news for pedophile preachers!

This is a PERFECT example of why one needs to check the Greek. This is a translation from those laboring under a state church and "divine" king.

Check out why the translation of "obey" your leaders who have "rule" over you makes no sense in light of other scriptures and the Holy Priesthood:

http://coffeetradernews.blogspot.com/2007/02/elders-rulers-or-servants-part-2.html

Anonymous said...

"I HURT WHEN I SEE HIM HURTING LIKE THIS..."

Like on the Danube cruise with Egyptian cotton sheets? Poor guy.

He was so hurt he went along with a trespass order. strange way for a professional paid Christian to act when they are "hurt".

Anonymous said...

""the loyal-to-the-pastor' types will grumble on his blog about all this being WD's fault. That he had it coming, that he is a hater, the $50K is filthy lucre, blah, blah, blah""

Well, that didn't take long to happen. Anon. at 10:29 moved in pretty quick to prove my point.

Garando

Anonymous said...

“touch not thine anointed” “trust these guys” yeah right.
http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/120210/new_744362939.shtml

Your pastors can do no harm. Ask this girl’s Father

Allen

Anonymous said...

We are called by God to be loyal to our Pastor!

Obey those that have rule over you, & submit yourselves: for they watch over your souls, as those that must give account, that they may do it with joy, & not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." (Heb. 13:17)

THIS IS COMMANDED BY GOD!!!

YOU ARE CAUSING YOUR PASTOR "GRIEF"....

I HURT WHEN I SEE HIM HURTING LIKE THIS...

HE IS SENT BY GOD TO US AND IS GOD'S GIFT TO US!

December 2, 2010 10:29 AM

scary stuff. Same thinking as Nazi German churches that pledged allegiance to Hilter. After all, they named him leader of the churches so he must be obeyed.

Anonymous said...

We are called by God to question our pastor!

Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. (Acts 17: 11)

THIS IS COMMANDED BY GOD!!!

YOU ARE CAUSING YOUR PASTOR "GRIEF" BY NOT TESTING HIS TEACHINGS WITH SCRIPTURE...

I HURT WHEN I SEE CHURCH MEMBERS HURTING BECAUSE OF FALSE DOCTRINE...

YOUR PASTOR IS NOT GREATER THAN THE APOSTLE PAUL WHO WROTE 2/3 OF THE NT!

OK - I'm going to turn my caps lock off now.

Long Time FBC Member said...

I HURT WHEN I SEE HIM HURTING LIKE THIS...

December 2, 2010 10:29 AM

Like Tom and Yvette Rich were hurting when our God-given "Pastor" sent them trespass warnings from the church on Thanksgiving Eve ??

Anonymous said...

Katie- Great comments!! I am a member of FBC Jax, and I agree with you 100% !!

Sweet Tea Drinker said...

Katie said-

"There are times when God removes people from the pulpit, and this might well be one of these times."


Mac is controlled by greed, pride, and arrogance. He will only leave when the money stops coming in. But FBC members are waking up. Perhaps Mac's departure will be sooner rather than later.

Anonymous said...

Dear FBC Member,

Don't forget that you are getting one side of the story from this blog. Keep your chin up.

The truth always and eventually comes out. We might learn a lot more about Rich as things begin to unravel. IMO.

Anonymous said...

This is not about Dog vs Mac or former FBC vs FBC members...it is deeper than that.

It is a Spiritual issue.

TO HAVE AUTHORITY, YOU MUST BE UNDER AUTHORITY. GOD PUT AUTHORITY IN THE HOME AND GOD PUT AUTHORITY IN THE CHURCH.

You may not like it and you may not even believe it but that DOES NOT CHANGE IT!!

ANYTHING WITH 2 HEADS IS A FREAK AND ANYTHING WITH NO HEAD IS DEAD...THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH IS GOD'S MAN...THE PASTOR.

GOD VOTED MAC IN AND ONLY GOD CAN VOTE HIM OUT

Anonymous said...

"ANYTHING WITH 2 HEADS IS A FREAK AND ANYTHING WITH NO HEAD IS DEAD...THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH IS GOD'S MAN...THE PASTOR.

GOD VOTED MAC IN AND ONLY GOD CAN VOTE HIM OUT""

Wrong on that statement. Christ is the head of the church. A pastor is only an undersheperd.

Peter was rebuked in the NT, why is that not allowed today in your mindset?

This kind of twisted logic and scripture from a kool-aid-ist is so sad. They just skip over the facts of the case and use their emotions when they speak. Just like the mainstream liberals you see in the political world.

Your dear leader is stepping out of bounds and you don't or won't acknowledge it. Man-worshippers are a sad lot. To say that God voted Mac into the church is so immature.

It's strange that Mac's call to JAX from Dallas included some nifty perks, like that big fat land deal in a gated community, got to indulge in a little nepotism, pluss some skull busting on WD.

That kind of conduct is typical of a corporate CEO, in the business world. But not for a minister of the gospel. Not.

Garlando

WishIhadknown said...

"GOD VOTED MAC IN AND ONLY GOD CAN VOTE HIM OUT"

No, I think in all SBC churches the members voted the pastor in and they should also have the ability to vote him out.

WishIhadknown said...

"We are called by God to be loyal to our Pastor"

If you really believed that you would have to be Roman Catholic and your loyalty would be to the Pope!

Katie said...

Anon 9:50 pm.

Absolutely, you are a 1000% correct, Jim Jones said the same thing and we all know how that worked out. In fact, Jim Jones contributed the 'kool aid' image so often used by folks trying to point out how people simply will not think for themselves. We are COMMANDED to study to show ourselves approved. Contrary to popular opinion, you shouldn't be showing up on Sunday, to get Mac's narrow interpretation of scripture. I have admitted to having done that for years. I had to actually crack a Bible and start studyng for myself. What a blessing that turned out to be.

God gave you a brain. Use it.

Paul admonishes Christians to be like the Bereans and that means we are to test everything against the scriptures and that doesn't mean using the scripture via the shotgun method. In fact, a repeated use of scripture used out of context, is how many cults are formed.

In Missouri, there is an organization known as the Fellowship of the Martyrs. They have decided that if a Christian marries and it turned out their spouse isn't the exact spouse God had in mind for them... you can put that spouse out and keep marrying until you get the right one. When some of the flock started to ask questions about this, they were quoted Hebrew 13:17. The so-called Pastor of this cult really knew how to manipulate people. Who could argue with being unequally yoked?

Mature Christians are careful not to abuse scripture. Hopefully, we are all working on being proper diciples and that means we revere scripture and use it carefully and for the right reasons in the right circumstances.

It's really not rocket science to see the way some so-called men of God twist and mangle the scripture to get people to send them money. Most of us here have watched these health and welfare prosperity preachers end up in prison, under investigation or at the very least, have their testimonies completely ruined.

God will not be mocked or trifled with.

Sweet Tea Drinker and Anon 6:08 pm, thanks for you kind comments. I sincerely hope that many more people at FBC JAX will see the light and move on. No one should attend church week after week and listen to the ravings of a man controlled by desperation and greed. God Bless you both.

Anonymous said...

"ANYTHING WITH 2 HEADS IS A FREAK AND ANYTHING WITH NO HEAD IS DEAD...THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH IS GOD'S MAN...THE PASTOR.

GOD VOTED MAC IN AND ONLY GOD CAN VOTE HIM OUT""

Here we go...soundbite Christianity that is parroted by ignorant pew sitters.

Actually, one cannot serve both God and mammon. So, who is Mac really serving? Seems to me he is trying to have "2 heads" as in both God and money.

Pastor is only mentioned once in the NT. And that spiritual function is part of the Holy Priesthood. No one part of the Body is more important than another. Read Corinthians.

BTW: Kephale does not mean authority. It means source or origin in Greek. A "head/body"
metaphor as in unity. There are many words in Greek that clearly communicate "authority". Kephale is not one of them. The Greeks thought of the 'head' as the source for the Body.

Jesus Christ IS our authority, though. Just don't confuse that with "head" and the passage that is teaching a unity of love. Jesus Christ as the source for the church and a spiritual unity with His Bride.

Humans are not Christ. And they cannot be "Saviors".

Anonymous said...

If one cannot have "two heads" then what are married Christian women to do?

They have Jesus Christ and their husbands as "heads".

The SBC is teaching that women have "2 heads". Perhaps they think that Jesus is not the "head" of married Christian women? Only her husband? He is to be her "Jesus"?

Anonymous said...

"ANYTHING WITH 2 HEADS IS A FREAK AND ANYTHING WITH NO HEAD IS DEAD...THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH IS GOD'S MAN...THE PASTOR."

The first half of your quote is from Dr. Rogers. The last half is obviously yours because Dr. Rogers would never say such a thing.

Dangerous man-worship. Talk about replacement theology. You are trying to replace Christ with an ordinary man. This is the antithesis or Christianity.

By the way, please point out a scripture verse that says that the head of the church is a man. I was under the impression that we were living in the time of the priesthood of all believers.

Since you typed it in all caps (screaming in Internet terms), you must have several that you can reference.

Anonymous said...

"GOD PUT AUTHORITY IN THE HOME AND GOD PUT AUTHORITY IN THE CHURCH.

You may not like it and you may not even believe it but that DOES NOT CHANGE IT!!"

This is why many denominations do not believe victims of incest or abuse within the family. Daddy is prophet, priest and king and no one can challenge his authority to do what he wants. Even if daddy is a minister or elder. It is scary what they can get by with because people believe the twisted commandments of man.

This twisting of scripture has been the vehicle for much abuse.

Anonymous said...

"GOD VOTED MAC IN AND ONLY GOD CAN VOTE HIM OUT"

When did God vote him in and how? How would God vote him out if he chose to?

tikatu said...

Anon 9:36 p.m. said:

Dear FBC Member,

Don't forget that you are getting one side of the story from this blog. Keep your chin up.

The truth always and eventually comes out. We might learn a lot more about Rich as things begin to unravel. IMO.

Very likely they are getting the "other side" of the story from direct observation of Mac Brunson and their church - and it tallies up with what the Watchdog has been telling them. Oh, except for the part about Hinson and the discipline committee - that was hidden deep from just about everyone.

IMO, they're disgusted for a reason, and it's not just because they're taking the Dog's word for it.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Tikatu - about the anon's post...I received post like that all along. I remember one in particular right around the time the lawsuits were filed in 2009 that seemed to stick with me, that I would "have my head handed to me on a platter in the court room".

Well, we haven't quite made it into a court room, but we have gone through hours and hours and hours of depositions. The city dug and dug into my life and my family's life and their view of me and my actions. They even hired an expert witness to read my blog and offer a psychological opinion of me and my writings. They deposed me for nearly 8 hours, asking me about many of my articles, whether I was in Deerwood taking photos, why I wrote certain posts, whether I was following the Brunsons, etc. My wife was questioned for hours about our relationship, her view of the blog. My extended family members as well!

Then, we deposed the other side, to get their story. The Brunson's were deposed, Hinson, Seigel, Blount.

So as far as things "unraveling", they have been unraveling for some time, and who knows what this next lawsuit will bring.

I can tell you that the lawsuit was amended by us a few months ago, narrowing the focus to the slander, and the church has responded, so things will be moving forward I assume, including more depositions, etc.

We shall see.

WishIhadknown said...

That is one of the problems with lawsuits, even when you win everyone loses so much. There are indeed two sides to every argument and it is also true that the Brunsons and the church are free at anytime to workout a settlement with WD. The word of God applies to both sides, after all! Personally, I find it best that when I dig myself into a hole it is best to just stop digging. Thanks WD for all you are going through and I am deeply sorry everyone has to go through this just to get to the truth. Churches should be open and honesty and not hide or disguise the truth. Churches should be shining examples of openness, accountability and full disclousure. The world should look at us in awe and wonder.

Anonymous said...

Disgusted FBCJ Member! If I felt the way you do about the church I attend I would leave and find another.

Wait, I have done just that!!!

Anonymous said...

It's strange that Mac's call to JAX from Dallas included some nifty perks, like that big fat land deal in a gated community,

Very ignorant statement anon and unprovable in court.

I think he was given the property because WD says it was a bribe to get free advertising for Collins Builders.

Anonymous said...

Disgusted FBCJ Member! If I felt the way you do about the church I attend I would leave and find another.

Wait, I have done just that!!!

December 3, 2010 2:01 PM

Happy to tell you we did leave! Guess what, no calls to see if we are even alive, but those tithing envelopes still arrive promptly every month.

They will never here from us again. This church is only interested in having a number on their rolls, but wait you too know their system & how they run the church, don't you. :>)

Isn't it a shame we long time members are the ones who had to pick up & leave first, and not the bully preacher the Search Committee hired on our behalf.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon - never said it was a bribe. Those are your words.

Anonymous said...

When Mac stands behind the Sacred Desk, you know God is speaking to you. All of these lawsuits, whining, complaining...why don't you go down to the Methodist Church where they churn em' over every 5 years. We Baptists don't Whine...We give to the Lottie Moon Christmas offering, we tithe, we go Sunday morning and Sunday night and Wednesday night and we follow our Leaders JUST LIKE THE BIBLE TELLS US TOO!!!! If you don't like the Church and don't like the Preacher....then don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!

WishIhadknown said...

"then don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!"

Wow, I can really feel the love pouring out, can't you?

Where does the Bible say give to Lottie Moon and go to church on Sunday and Wednesday nights?

Just swallow and follow.

WishIhadknown said...

What is the sacred desk?

Anonymous said...

So you are speaking for all Baptists now? According to the latest data, only about 3% give the tithe. Most don't attend Sunday evening or Wednesday evening services. That's why the church seems so empty at night. And you seem to be doing a bit of whining yourself. Don't pretend to speak for an entire denomination when you represent only a tiny minority.

Anonymous said...

Anon December 3, 2010 11:12 PM

Your comment was a joke, right? You can't possibly be serious.

Thy Peace said...

What is the sacred desk?

Could it be ...

Grace and Truth to You [Wade Burleson] > The Contaminated Pulpit and Other Weird Things

Anonymous said...

"When Mac stands behind the Sacred Desk, you know God is speaking to you."

It is "Rome" infesting the SBC. It has been coming on for years. We even have our own specially anointed bishops and little pope's who can do no wrong because of their titles.

This person really believes the pulpit is sacred. You would be surprised how many Baptists believe the church building is the "house of God". It is scary.

Anonymous said...

Regarding two quotes you made, "a blog on which no threats were made" and "unmasking an anonymous critic", I find them mildly disingenuous. As I understand it, Brunson wasn't coming after you as some people's comments have charged rather it was your suggestion that church members withhold offerings that prompted the trustees to seek your identity as that was believed to be a "threat" to FBCJ which may be seen as making you more than a "critic".

And to those of you who have completed your next post in your mind of me, maybe I can save you some time to say that I am a happy member of FBCJ but is honest enough to say that I have had problems with some of Mac's statements/actions but still believe he is a man of God who still has areas God deals with him on and who does love Jesus and loves serving Him and his fellow man to the best of his ability.

Anonymous said...

"Everything we truly believe, we obey. Everything else is just religious talk." ~ Adrian Rogers

According to this definition, Baptists do not believe in the tithe.

Anonymous said...

"I find them mildly disingenuous. As I understand it, Brunson wasn't coming after you as some people's comments have charged..."

Wow! Not even The FACTS of subpeona's and trespass warnings can convince this blind sheep.

Anonymous said...

"Anon 2:07said: Very ignorant statement anon and unprovable in court."

Allow me to demonstrate the ignorance of your comment. I never said it was a bribe and what does a court have to do with what I said? You're making things up in your kool aid head.

All I said was, isn't it funny how his 'call' occurred right in the middler of our building campaign, that he promoted as his 'vision'. All to gest a bigger church, bigger salary and perks, oh yeah, and that cushy piece of land for free. THis, in spite of his own teaching about pastors taking large gifts.

A court of law? Please, it's a clear observation of facts. Send me my trespass order, I promise not to come to FBCJAX when Macky is in town.

Some people.