"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Monday, February 20, 2012

Shocker: Mac Brunson to Preach at Gilyard's Former Church, Shiloh Baptist in Jacksonville

Mac Brunson announced Sunday night that he will be preaching a revival service at Shiloh Baptist Metropolitan Church this coming Wednesday.

This is quite unfortunate. It is really beyond comprehension that Brunson is going to make the same mistake that Jerry Vines did in 2006.

You see, Shiloh is the church that hired Darrell Gilyard back in 1993 despite his known sexual predation in churches in Texas and Oklahoma. According to the Times Union, Shiloh has settled multiple lawsuits with victims of Gilyard on several occasions yet still allowed him to remain as pastor. One such lawsuit against Gilyard and Shiloh alleged Gilyard convinced a widow in 2004 to have sex with him during a counseling session to hasten her healing after her husband's death. The suit also alleged that the church was negligent in the hiring, supervising, and retaining of Gilyard as the pastor.

I know what some of Brunson's defenders will say: this is a new day, a new pastor at Shiloh, and we should not try to hang the sins of Gilyard on the new pastor and the church.

Let's be real. Shiloh Metropolitan Baptist Church had a corrupt system - and could possibly still have a corrupt system - that allowed them to hire a known sexual deviant without warning the people of the church or taking adequate measures to protect women in the church from Gilyard. Their broken church structure allowed Gilyard's perversion to thrive and grow to the point that he sexually abused at least one teenage girl in his church.

Shiloh Baptist, as far as I know, has never publicly apologized to our city for allowing Gilyard free reign to abuse women when they should have never hired a man with his history of sexual abuse allegations in the first place. As far as I know Shiloh has never demonstrated to the city of Jacksonville that they have instituted changes to increase pastoral accountability and oversight that would prevent a recurrence.

So what does it say to Christian women in general in Jacksonville, and Gilyard's victims in particular, that Brunson - who does represent FBC Jax whether he wants to admit it or not - is going to preach at a church with such a terrible track record of protecting women and children from a predator?

I'll tell you what else stinks about Brunson showing up there...it was his church's own employee, deacon, and discipline committee member, Robert Hinson, who used his investigatory power as a JSO detective to pull a subpoena on Tiffany Croft's blog in 2008. Tiffany Croft is a former FBC Jax member who started a blog back in 2008 to help expose Gilyard. Tiffany's blog and her efforts actually aided the state attorney's office in gathering evidence from victims and helped to build the case against Gilyard. What did Tiffany get for her bravery? She had her personal information subpoenaed by Mac's own employee and churchman. Click here to view the subpoena, the one for Tiffany's blog is on the third page of the hyperlinked document.

The detective under oath said that he issued the subpoena on Tiffany's blog by accident when he was investigating my blog. I don't believe that one bit. What seasoned sheriff's detective issues subpoenas to be signed by the state attorney by mistake on a website that CLEARLY was no threat, whose author was not anonymous in any way, and who simply was critical of a high-profile baptist pastor? If it had become known that the JSO was investigating Tiffany's blog, that could have actually hampered the state attorney's investigation by scaring people away from reporting what they knew about Gilyard. After all, the subpoena demanded from Google all of Tiffany's personal information, and it asked for "...all general login and/or posting dates and times and all IP addresses and all related screen names." Yep, the blog helping to put Gilyard in jail, was being investigated by a detective employed by Brunson's church, and who was sitting on the FBC Jax "discipline committee" at the time he pulled the subpoenas. You can't make this stuff up.

Has Brunson done his due diligence on Shiloh before deciding to preach there? Has he confirmed that Shiloh has cleaned house of leaders who were aware of the Gilyard history in Texas but still turned a blind eye? Are there still men in positions of leadership at Shiloh that had knowledge of Gilyard's sexual predation and thus bear some responsibility in the abuse that occurred at the hands of their pastor? I have reason to believe there still is at least one man in a position of leadership at Shiloh that knew of Gilyard's past but did not warn the congregation.

FBC Jax has already had one pastor go to Shiloh to preach and regret it. Jerry Vines preached at Shiloh in 2006 when Gilyard was still pastor, shortly after Vines' retirement. Vines knew all about Gilyard's sexual perversions in Texas, and Vines even knew that Gilyard tried to seduce one of the young women at FBC Jax during a high school revival tour in the late 1980s. Yet Vines agreed to forgive Gilyard for his "out of state troubles" and later expressed regret that he went to Shiloh to preach in 2006.

So why is Mac going to Shiloh? Does he not have better judgement than this? Aren't there better choices of churches in this city that he could visit? Don't the FBC Jax trustees and deacons see a problem with this? Maybe not, after all FBC Jax hired Ergun Caner last summer to lead their summer youth camps.

So just a quick note to Jerry Vines: Mac Brunson loves to drop your name and tell his church how often you send him loving and encouraging text messages.

Therefore, Jerry, you might want to fire off the following text message to Mac, lickity-split:

"Mac, don't preach at Shiloh. Been there, done that. Not a good idea right now. Love ya bro. Jerry."

Trustees of FBC Jax, please nip this in the bud. Your pastor has no business going to Shiloh Baptist Church. Let him earn his weekly preaching honorarium at some other more respectable church in our city.

51 comments:

Anonymous said...

What is the motivation of preachers that preach at other churches? Why are they doing this activity?

The answers, whatever they may be, would tell us why they are doing this activity and if it has a thing in the world to do with how some preachers treat women. My guess is how other preachers treat women would have little to do with it. But I'd love to hear opinions or honest answers from preachers.

Anonymous said...

What is Brunson thinking. Jesus Himself would't even go to Shiloh after all the godless decisions made in their past. Thanks for the post Dog.

Anonymous said...

Maybe he's actually showing a little Christian forgiveness to a sister church.

You seem to be real good at deciding when a person has properly repented or what a church has to do to meet your requirements about making things right.

Noone has died and made you Queen of anything so quit trying to act like you're in charge of anything.

Anonymous said...

"Jesus Himself would't even go to Shiloh after all the godless decisions made in their past."

OK anon, maybe "your" jesus would not go there but the JESUS of the bible WOULD!

New BBC Open Forum said...

What is the motivation of preachers that preach at other churches? Why are they doing this activity?

Much too frequently the answer is money. In this case it's double dipping.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Ask Tiffany Croft what she thinks. I think her opinion would carry more weight than mine. Her blog was one of the other two they targeted, mine being the other. Why do you think that was? I sort of get why they targeted mine (doesn't make it right, but at least I get it that they wanted to shut me up, too, or maybe Mac wanted to do his buddy Steve a favor), but why hers? She wasn't blogging about Mac or FBC Jax. Why was she perceived as any kind of threat to them? I think somebody there... or maybe somebody who used to be there... had a stake in keeping Gilyard's story as quiet as possible. Now that he's out of prison they can all act as if nothing ever happened. This was proven by the idiots at that church who just asked him to be their pastor, the same church that had to ban minors from the church when he preached. Isn't that something when a church has to prohibit minors from attending services because the preacher is on the national sex offender registry?!

What if Mac were invited to preach at Tom Messer's church? I've no doubt there are still those at Shiloh, and probably some on staff there, who believe Gilyard is just being persecuted and that all this is no big deal. Mac, by agreeing to preach there, is giving his tacit approval. Or at least that's how it appears to me, and if it appears that way to me I know I'm not the only one.

You already said it:

This church, as far as I know, has never publicly apologized to our city for allowing Gilyard free reign to abuse women when they should have never hired a man with his history of sexual abuse allegations in the first place. As far as I know Shiloh has never demonstrated to the city of Jacksonville that they have instituted changes to increase pastoral accountability and oversight that would prevent a recurrence.

For all you who say Jesus would forgive, just remember forgiveness doesn't equal tacit approval.

Anonymous said...

Business as usual...and you wonder why these "men of God" hate blogging?!!

Anonymous said...

You "sort of get why" FBC Jax went after you?

You've got to be kidding.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon 11:35 - yes, I certainly do! :)

Anonymous said...

While Mac brunson is preaching at Gilyard's former church some one should encourage him to fill out an application because he is not wanted at his current Job. He sure makes it sound as if he is wanted, total mind control.

Anonymous said...

I think your blog does a lot of good things in raising awareness in the Christian community and have enjoyed many of your articles. However, This particular item is filled with innuendo, supposition,and, and a lot of judgmental personal opinion. Who have you spoken to at Shiloh? Do you know what the leadership looks like today? What church do you know of where the system could not be called corrupt? They are all built on the traditions of men -- with flawed men in every position from the pulpit to the board room to the pew. I think you could have done better on this one (and "no", I am not a Shiloh member).

James "Jimmy" Brown said...

BBCOPEN.."What if Mac were invited to preach at Tom Messer's church?"

I'll bite. Why shouldn't Mac preach at Trinity?

James "Jimmy" Brown said...

Shiloh is about a mile down the road from FBC - a Baptist Church. Quite possibly has unrepentant sinners to say nothing of publicans in its congregation. Is Mac to have nothing to do with publicans and sinners?

I really don't get it. D Gilyard is long gone from Shiloh; why shouldn't he preach there. They need to hear the Word also. In fact, it is for the sick and the sinner Jesus came.

James "Jimmy" Brown said...

Would Jesus invite Darrell Gilyard to have a meal with him?

Anonymous said...

"OK anon, maybe "your" jesus would not go there but the JESUS of the bible WOULD!"

Amen! And Mac should not be afraid to go where Jesus would go. If the dog has an aversion of going where Jesus would go, then he needs to either stay at home or get a new theology.

Anonymous said...

Dog:

I have no problem with Mac traveling to other churches to preach the Gospel.

My question is why FBC Jax is Paying him to preach at another church when he is supposed to be at his own church Wednesday?

Besides...Shiloh will get the biggest shock....a lesson in history and feel-good stories instead of a Bible lesson....

Anonymous said...

Really. Why is Mac doing this? It can't be money.

James "Jimmy" Brown said...

Anon. said: "My question is why FBC Jax is Paying him to preach at another church when he is supposed to be at his own church Wednesday?'

Anon, if you attend and support FBCJax with your financial gifts; then you ought to make your voice heard.

But if you neither attend nor support FBCJax with your financial gifts; what's it to you?

Anonymous said...

"Would Jesus invite Darrell Gilyard to have a meal with him?"

I don't recall Jesus ever having a meal with a sex offender in scripture.

But I do remember him condemning them strongly.

Anonymous said...

"Anon, if you attend and support FBCJax with your financial gifts; then you ought to make your voice heard."

Sure, that'll work. LOL. But it is a good way to get branded as a trouble-maker and served with trespass papers.

"But if you neither attend nor support FBCJax with your financial gifts; what's it to you?"

If you neither attend nor support FBCJax with your financial gifts, what's it to you?

Really stupid argument by the way. Like I'm not allowed to have an opinion because I'm not a member of the country club.

Anonymous said...

This town has a REAL problem with abuse of women in the church, in the Christian schools, etc. and has had since at least the 70's since I personally KNOW of what was going on then. I have a real problem with anyone not taking it seriously, I have a real problem with it being swept under the rug, I had a real problem with that subpeona of Tiffany Croft's blog, and if Mac Brunson is going to speak at Shiloh then I think he ought to clarify that he doesn't support this kind of thing. Oh, wait, that was FBC Jax that subpeonaed that blog, sorry. (i dont know how to spell subpeona, sorry.) I really have a huge problem with this issue in the Baptist churches of Jacksonville. It's exactly how Gilyard has been allowed back in the pulpit. This all needs to be in the light, and you can't support this kind of abuse of women. At least you can't support it and have any support from me.

Anonymous said...

There are times you make good points about real topics Tom, but you missed it on this blog posting. You used the phrases:

"could possibly"
"as far as I know" (twice)
"could have actually"
"are there still?"
"I have reason to believe"

You are stabbing a straw man with this posting. It is beginning to become easy to read right through your postings. You are bitter at Mac Brunson, and you have taken up an unbiblical attitude toward him.

Again, there is a lot you write about that serves as good warnings, but you missed it on this one buddy.

Todd

James "Jimmy" Brown said...

Anon "This town has a REAL problem with abuse of women in the church,"

I am curious; hopefully you can educate me.

Do you mean to say J-ville is worse then Orlando, Miami, Atlanta, Knoxville, San Antonio, Fresno, Denver, Portland, L.A. or San Francisco?
Why do you make that statemen? I am curious.

New BBC Open Forum said...

You "sort of get why" FBC Jax went after you?

You've got to be kidding.


Actually, the anon was quoting me. Yes, absolutely I "sort of get why" FBC Jax went after me. As I said, it was either because I posted a few articles about Mac Brunson and Watchdog's situation, OR Mac or someone at FBC Jax saw it as an opportunity to go after my information as a favor for their buddy Steve. I've also provided server space for some of Watchdog's files, so perhaps when they saw that they made a connection that isn't there. Their excuse that they thought the same person was writing both blogs because the templates for both were the same is laughable. If they really thought using the same template means the same person is writing multiple blogs, I/Watchdog must be writing many, many blogs! There are just so many Blogger templates available, and there were fewer than there are today when we began blogging.

The excuse they used to obtain my information is laughable, too. As I recall it was because of "possible criminal activity" at FBC Jax. That would be kind of difficult since I've never set foot in the state of Florida and live several states away from there.

But yes, to answer your question, I understand why they went after me. It was a move that revealed a lot more about their motives than mine.

Anonymous said...

Birds of a feather , Flock together
Ps 119:63

New BBC Open Forum said...

James "Jimmy" Brown/Seneca said:

Anon, if you attend and support FBCJax with your financial gifts; then you ought to make your voice heard.

But if you neither attend nor support FBCJax with your financial gifts; what's it to you?


Pot, meet kettle.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anons, Jimmy, and Todd from yesterday:

Here in Jax, Brunson's visit to Shiloh is just more of the same. Lack of accountability for churches who seek to sweep under the rug the awful abuses of their pastor. We saw it at Trinity with Bob Gray. The leadership there became aware of the abuses of their pastor and they sought to keep it under wraps, and they even stood by while the pastor (Gray) lied to the congregation about his sin, saying the allegations did not deal with immorality or sex. And he got his standing ovation.

But this was worse. Shiloh leaders knowingly hired a man with a trail of 4 churches from which he was fired for having sex with dozens of women, even women who alleged he raped them. When Shiloh leadership was confronted by a local pastor about Gilyard's sins they called him crazy and banished him from the property.

If you go back and read Tiffany Croft's blog from 2007 and 2008, there were many Gilyard supporters who attacked HER for "attacking" the man of God. Some victims reported to Tiffany that they were intimidated by the church and thus they feared coming forward with their stories, that something bad might happen to them or their families for exposing the man of God.

So has Shiloh dealt with these underlying problems at their church that resulted in the Gilyard tragedy that even to this day is an embarrassment to all Christians? I think it would be nice for the citizens of Jacksonville to know that they have, what those steps are, before big name preachers give their blessing to Shiloh by preaching in their pulpit.

Anonymous said...

Eventually you're going to have to move on from your bitterness.

James "Jimmy" Brown said...

Anonymous said...

"Eventually you're TOM) going to have to move on from your bitterness."

No he doesn't. He can feed on it for the rest of his life if he chooses.

Anonymous said...

"Eventually you're going to have to move on from your bitterness."

Are you referring to yourself?

Anonymous said...

This is the very reason we left First Baptist Church. Brunson is always away preaching at other churches. We didn't want a part-time pastor. He needs to stay home and take care of his own church mess, but this does give him pocket money.

What is Brunson thinking? Answer: His own self, not the church called him to be a shepherd too - he's a greedy man! Right, double dipping!

Anonymous said...

"No he doesn't. He can feed on it for the rest of his life if he chooses."

Pot, meet Kettle.

Anonymous said...

I think we can all agree that Shiloh has be a part of a massive cover up. I think we all agree that it is despicable.

But, we are called to be light in a dark world. Is it not great that Mac is willing to go and preach to a church that needs to hear the Gospel again. Maybe the preaching of the Word will lead to conviction of the heart and even towards reconciliation.

I realize many people have issues with Mac, but in this case, I am proud of him for loving the people of Shiloh enough to go to them.

Anonymous said...

toduAbuse is everywhere in today's church. This is just a slap in the face to those with whom all associated with these tragic events have flourished.

Do not know this for a fact, but I'll almost guarantee ya that this is meant as a "I'll show them" vs a real Christ intended action from Brunson and those within the Shiloh staff.

These Pastor now-a-days are wanna be's from days gone by.

Anonymous said...

"So has Shiloh dealt with these underlying problems at their church that resulted in the Gilyard tragedy that even to this day is an embarrassment to all Christians?"

Did Jesus wait for fallen humanity to deal with their problems that resulted in the condition of the world today before He came and preached to us? NO! Do we as Christians need to wait until the world gets their problems dealt with which results in all depths of sin before we share His message with them? NO!

Why such a hissy about a preacher preaching God's word anywhere at any time. Now if you can prove Mac is not going to preach God's word, then you might have an argument.Do you have such information?

Anonymous said...

A dying denomination that wants a face lift...

http://www.wbir.com/news/article/206901/2/Southern-Baptists-wont-adopt-fresh-name-as-they-face-decline

"..the task force also recommended that local churches that don't like the name Southern Baptist use the name "Great Commission Baptists." "

"The idea of offering an alternative name is part of an effort to reverse decline in membership and baptisms in the 16.2-million member convention. Southern Baptists baptized 332,321 people last year (even making Baptized persons be re-baptized), the lowest number since the 1950s. Membership dropped for the fourth year in a row, and the convention has cut the number of overseas missionaries it sends out."


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=147162557

"Of the 2,000 Americans surveyed, 40 percent of respondents had an unfavorable view of the denomination and 44 percent of respondents said that knowing a church was Southern Baptist would negatively impact their decision to visit or join the church.

Although 53 percent of respondents overall had a favorable view of the Southern Baptists, the high negatives are a concern for a denomination in which spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a fundamental to their faith."

a reply

George Lloyd (Bevan_Bevan) wrote:

"A reputation (or 'brand') is sullied in the court of public opinion. That 'court' gets its 'evidence' from media outlets, in the main.
So, the organization has a choice: change from the ways that caused the unfavorable evidence or change their name (as in, a leopard chainging its spots).
I would have preferred a very public acknowledgment of those actions that turned people away and a very public campaign to show what the goals of the SBC are. Simply changing the name to divert public opinion has no nobility nor dignity."

Anonymous said...

What's the deal with Bronson going over to Shiloh for a revival when he has not brought revival to his own church?

Just saying!

Anonymous said...

As a long time member of FBC, I'm just glad to know that Brunson will preach anywhere on a Wednesday night. He sure never preaches at his own church on Wednesdays.

Our Wednesday service used to be one of the most dynamic services. But it has fallen off to nearly nothing now. Because we never know who will be 'preaching'. It could be a deacon or various staff members, not trained to preach. We only know one thing for sure - It won't be Mac.

Anonymous said...

First of all, Mac isn't responsible for bringing revival to his church or any other church. That's the job of the Holy Spirit so get real in your criticisms.

And for those of you who are or used to be FBC Jax members and still live in the past of "how great we used to be" you need to get over it and move on. You'll never go back to the past and from what I hear, its not something that great. Jerry Vines sure wasn't a shining example of anything.

Anonymous said...

It must be Tiffany Croft's worst nightmare that Gilyard is back in the pulpit. Not speaking for her or anything. But come on, IF THIS HAD BEEN TAKEN SERIOUSLY IN THE FIRST PLACE...WHO ALL WOULD HAVE BEEN SPARED???????????? Abuse of women in the church in Jacksonville has never been taken seriously, not for many years. Could I name names and places? you betcha.

Anonymous said...

God uses men to bring revival. The Holy Spirit convicts. Evangelist is a spiritual gift. If God didn't use men to bring revival we wouldn't need any of those pesky spiritual gifts. Get real in your Bible reading.

Anonymous said...

I'm concluding that a great preacher who abuses women quickly gets forgiveness and all is well. If he's a good speaker with a lot of charisma, he needn't worry about bad consequences of his actions (from the church, anyway. The civil authorities might have a higher standard. Sometimes they don't say we forgive you, now go on your way, doing what you were doing.)

Re preachers having speaking engagements, I guess that's their talent, they get paid for it, just think of them kinda like a motivational speaker who makes money by entertaining and encouraging people. It seems to be mainly very simple-you're a good speaker and people will pay to hear you speak. End of story.

Someone says he's going there cause people need to hear the gospel? Have they been living under a rock all these years? And wouldn't they have already heard the gospel from their own preacher? This makes no sense to me.

Anonymous said...

Mac will be a blessing to Shiloh.

They need some strong biblical preaching and he will certainly bless the Church there.

I am thankful that our Pastor will go anywhere just like Jesus.

He is a great example to me and others of true humility and love.

Thank you Pastor for taking such a graceful stand for Christ.

Anonymous said...

"God uses men to bring revival."

God uses men to lead others to Christ but men save no one. Never has a man brought revival to anyone, anywhere at any time. God may use them to help prepare for what He is going to do but that is it.

Get real in "your" Bible reading.

Anonymous said...

Anon. 8:36 P.M.

"Jerry Vines sure wasn't a shining example of anything."

You must be kidding? Jerry Vines preached the WORD! Every time he stepped into the pulpit he read the Bible and taught about Jesus Christ...EVERY time!

You must be loving the History lessons at FBC...that is all Mac can teach....History lessons and very little Bible.

Anonymous said...

"Jerry Vines preached the WORD! "

You mean the Bible?

You could read that yourself,

and then at only the cost of the book

Anonymous said...

"You must be loving the History lessons at FBC...that is all Mac can teach....History lessons and very little Bible."

Nice dodge of the subject in the comment you replied too. Nothing was mentioned about Mac but about Jerry Vine's stellar preaching the Word.

Why not speak to the subject after saying he was no shining example. Is it because you were wrong and needed an escape? YES!

Mick Hallett said...

Just because he preaches there doesn't mean he condones the system or behavior. I think it's great for lots of reasons. How about John 4, for starters.

I've come to think of this as the Mac Brunson hatred page. I disagree with Mac on everything from Darwin to tithing (Jesus paid my tithe), but I fail to see the continued energy put in here. He's a great preacher. And we all have flaws. Move on!

Mick Hallett said...

How about John 4? I think of this as the Mac hatred page. I disagree with Mac on everything from Darwin to tithing (Jesus paid my tithe). If you feel this way, just move on! I like the guy.

Anonymous said...

"How about John 4? I think of this as the Mac hatred page. I disagree with Mac on everything from Darwin to tithing (Jesus paid my tithe). If you feel this way, just move on! I like the guy."

I'm sure that if you had lived 2000 years ago you would have said the same thing about Jesus for criticizing the religious leaders of his day.

Was Jesus a "hater" for criticizing mega-church preachers of the first century?

Why didn't Jesus just move on?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12:26 P.M.

HuH?

You do not even make sense.