Matthew 7:15 (NIV) “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matthew 24:11: (NIV) “…and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.”

2 Timothy 2:23 - 25 (NIV) - 23Again I say, don’t get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights. 24 A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. 25 Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth.

Wednesday, December 4, 2013

Caner 2007 GBC Convention Sermon: Some Irony, Some Hypocrisy, Some Prophecy - And Yes, Some Baloney

I thought it fitting now that the Georgia Baptists have hired Ergun Caner as one of their college's presidents to go back to the last time Ergun Caner addressed the Georgia Baptist pastors and take a listen. Afterall, these pastors and their congregants will now be helping to pay Caner's salary - and maybe his legal fees - so let's go back and hear what Caner had to say to his Georgia brethren.

I dug back into the Watchdog archives and have found the sermon Ergun Caner delivered at the 2007 Georgia Baptist Evangelism Conference on September 7, 2007.

But give Caner his props - it was a real humdinger of a sermon. He he had them rolling in the aisles, and he had them amening and hootin' and hollerin'. Caner's sermon that day was a prime example of why Caner is such a popular circuit speaker.

However, in the 6 years that have transpired since he delivered it - four parts of his sermon are worth noting given recent events. There was some irony, some hypocrisy, a little bit of prophecy, and as in most Caner sermons, there was a serving of baloney.

Let's take them one by one. We shall start with the prophecy.

Prophecy: Caner warned the pastors about the bloggers "attacking" pastors.

In a bit of prophecy and foreshadowing, Caner warned about the dangers of bloggers "sowing seeds of discord among the brethren". In September 2007 when this sermon was delievered, this blog had just begun a few weeks prior, and there were several other bloggers out there such as the NewBBCOpenForum, Saving Bellevue, and another one dedicated to Two Rivers Baptist in Nashville. Caner was one of the first to be out front warning of the "evils" of bloggers. He even made a reference to bloggers in their parents' basement.

Here is an excerpt from the 51:15 mark of the sermon:
"Everybody in our church is demanding their rights and believe that their opinion is worth hearing, and they BLOG US TO DEATH. Now you need to listen to me. I've got a blog, and many of you do too. But there are those that have become infected with this narcissism. They've developed this focus on their own opinion and thus they have a spirit of dissension. They sow seeds of discord among the brethren." (51:15 mark)
Who knew when these words were uttered that it would be Caner himself who had the most to lose by those nosy and "narcissistic" bloggers? Perhaps Caner saw the day coming where HE would have his fibs posted on these same blogs and thus he decided to take a pre-emptive strike. Imagine Caner's horror when he realized that ordinary, non-ordained Christians obtained some measure of power through the blogosphere to disclose and discuss the misdeeds of pastors.

Or perhaps Caner's words above were just a divine prophetic moment, now revealed by God on my blog. Or is that just me being narcissistic?

Irony:  Caner warned about the evils of Christian lawsuits.
"Everybody is obsessed with their rights. You know why we know this? Because everbody is suing everybody else. We're a litigious society, aren't we? Everybody's got a right to sue!! I got a right to get me some cheese!!! I'm gonna get me some cheddar!!! I'm gonna get me my money!!  Why? Because it can't be my fault! It's not my fault, I'm a victim...if I'm a victim, I'm not culpable. If I'm not culpable, I'm not responsible. If I'm not responsible, it's not sin. So what we do instead of bowing our knee in repentance, is we demand our rights. And it has infected the church." (50:10 mark)
I guess Ergun Caner had a change in heart on lawsuits replacing repentance and responsibility and culpability. 

Baloney: Caner claimed to debate various groups, and that they are available online.
"You can get everyone one of my - I have two rules when I debate. Number one, no money. You know why? Because they say we're always after money. And I work for Jerry Falwell. Right? The second rule is no Christian can ask me a question. No money, you can download all my debates. I debate the gay church, I've debated B'Hai, Buddhists, Shintos, Orasthean (?), Muslims." (48:45 mark)
So here it is, unmistakable - Caner is claiming not to have had informal debates, as in one-on-one conversations. But these would have been recorded, uploaded, available for downloading, debates with multiple religious groups.

Where are these formal debates? Did they ever occur? Was this just a simple "misstatement"? He thought he had debated but forgot that they hadn't occurred yet?  He had a few dates wrong? Or was he purposely misleading the Georgia pastors about his debating prowess? I think we know the answer.

Hypocrisy:  Caner claims his debates are free, offered online, and would not want any money for them.

The rest of the quote from above:
"The second rule is no Christian can ask me a question. No money, you can download all my debates. I debate the gay church, I've debated Baha'i, Buddhists, Shintos, Orasthean (?), Muslims. You get 'em all. They're free, they will always be free. Why? Because I like a good debate, and I like the church in culture."
That is great! He doesn't want to charge for his recorded debates, and he claims to want them available to everyone everywhere, available for downloading on the Internet. Thus, he wants them to have as wide of dissemination as possible, unhindered by the need to pay for them. He throws in the point that he is already being paid a salary so why try to charge more money.

If he claimed in 2007 that he wants his debates to be spread via the Internet unhindered, why would he object to sermons? Why would he object to his excellent speech given to the Marines in 2005  being posted on the Internet? And more importantly: why would he now claim that he wants compensation from Jon Autry and Jason Smathers for doing what he said he himself does or rather claims to do: puts his debates online for free for anyone to download?

So there you have it. Something for everyone.

And I'll leave you with one other quote from the Georgia Baptist Evangelism Conference of 2007, that only Ergun Caner gets a pass on:

"I don't think the Tele-Tubbies are gay. I think Barney [the dinosaur] is queer." (48:45 mark)

And did the Georgia boys ever yuck it up over that one.

And listen to the sermon for yourself right here:

25 comments:

Anonymous said...

Watchdog,
Did you read the press release from Brewton Parker College?
http://www.bpc.edu/PresidentialSearch/canerpressrelease.html

The last paragraph is interesting.

Anonymous said...

Wow! Videos allegedly of Caner? Why is Ergun suing if the videos aren't confirmed to be of him? Did the trustees interview him and be told by Caner that the videos aren't him speaking? Why on earth would they use that word? Aside from the conflict this causes for those evangelizing Muslims doesn't it justify the stereotype that southerners aren't too bright?

An Attorney said...

Dog, this sermon should be made available to the people the Caner is suing. It is useful evidence.

Of course, he may try to copyright it some six years later!

Anonymous said...

Sour grapes Dog, sour grapes. Your hatred and venom are going to do more harm to you than to anyone else. Get involved in your church, serve Jesus, win souls and devote more time to your family. Let it go.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Thanks thanks for your concern, Anon. No sour grapes I can assure you.

Anonymous said...

Another trustee summarized the vote: “We didn’t consider Dr. Caner in spite of the attacks; we
elected him because of them. He has endured relentless and pagan attacks like a warrior. We
need a warrior as our next president.”
_________________________________

Translation: We are desperate and dying and will bring in the king of slinging the bull in an effort to attract students who want to be trained in how to sling the bull. And for that, we must all agree, love him or hate him, if you want to attract students who will be future posers and manipulators and liars who will never back down or admit their lies when they are caught red handed, Ergun Caner is your man! To me that is basically an admission by the college that they will say anything, hire anyone, or do anything, they can to try and salvage a bush league, obsolete organization.

Go grow the college, Ergun. You are a great role model for future Georgia preachers who will fill pulpits in the years to come. Ha Ha.

Bennett Willis said...

While I take offense at all Southerners being not so bright, I would have a hard time arguing the point regarding Georgia Baptists who take a job as trustee of a college.

An interesting issue is that the years between 2001 and 2011 are going away for EC. At least this seems to be the plan The videos are being deleted, the statements of EC's history (by EC) are going away. It does seem like something out of the book, "1984." I suppose that things do eventually become clear.

Then there are the students and faculty. How are they going to take this? Not that it matters much. How could the college pass the "red face test" regarding their code of ethics?

Fortunately, I'm a graduate of another Baptist College--one that seems to have a code of ethics that they actually take seriously. Of course they are looking for a president and I'm glad that EC is newly hired by another. That should reduce the possibility of getting him to well below zero--if it was not there already.

Bennett Willis said...

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/news/article/southern-baptist-college-hires-controversial-ergun-caner

This is an interesting link. I guess EC will go after it next because it seems relatively factual.

Anonymous said...

From Florida to Georgia this Christmas-
"GO (away)............ Georgia Bulldogs!! ...and take EC with you!!

Anonymous said...

With the lack of respectability, is it any wonder that people are even beginning to satire the religious system like this blogger here:

http://thebreadoflifefellowship.blogspot.com/

Pretty funny, and true stuff right there.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous spake these inspired words: Sour grapes Dog, sour grapes. Your hatred and venom are going to do more harm to you than to anyone else. Get involved in your church, serve Jesus, win souls and devote more time to your family. Let it go.

Your man-worship is showing, Mr/Ms. Anonymous at 8:09. You let personalities trump integrity in this case. So sad.

Anonymous said...

"Sour grapes Dog, sour grapes."

Why would there be Sour Grapes? WD won in court and your hero was forced to apologize from the pulpit in disgrace.

Sounds like you are the one with the case of sour grapes my friend.

Anonymous said...

Sour grapes...hmmm. You must be referring to Aesop's Fables. Where a talking fox (animals, like donkey's do talk, and reason, and ask questions just like Balaam's donkey, amen?) tells himself that the grapes he can't reach must be sour.

Interesting that Christians refer to sour grapes to make their point since they are so impacted by tales of talking animals. Not just talking animals, but animals that actually reason and ask questions.

Oh well. You either believe ALL of it or NONE of it, Amen!

Jim Rogers said...

Dr. Caner told me today that he is praying for you.

He said he harbors no bitterness and he wishes you God's blessing and peace.

He is a sweet man with a gentle heart.

Wish you were more like him...

Susan Rhodes said...

As a B-P student, I can tell you we are excited!

We know he is a man of integrity and will teach us how to be men and women who fear God.

Your attacks only strengthen Dr. Caner in our view and we ask you to personally come to our school and feel the Spirit in the air!

God answers prayers and He brought us a warrior!

57 years a Baptist said...

Well, he must have had an integrity implant, b/c from 8/12/2001 to sometime in 2011 he did not have any. Complete fabricator (aka LIAR) for ten years plus or minus a few months. And suing good Christians who dared to point out his lying.

But you at B-P can drink the Kool Aid. IF he ever tells the whole truth, he will have to admit that he created a false story to tell about his supposed jihadist training.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:12 As a B-P student... (Bi Polar)?
Really?...that excited to gain one with that much controversy surrounding?
Once you have been a student of Real Life (after college) you will understand that some must cautiously be loved at arms length...unfortunately. In his case much/most brought onto himself making him no martyr.
And Ms Bi Polar we will still love you when you and this saga's chapter crashes.

Anonymous said...

"We know he is a man of integrity and will teach us how to be men and women who fear God."

Strong delusion, much? Sounds just like Israel when they rejected God's leadership, and wanted the leadership of a man. God gave them Saul, and we all know how that turned out.

Guys like this are God's judgement on a blind and rebellious people that do not want God, but want to get all their carnal hearts desire in the name of God. So He gives them over to strong delusion so that they believe a lie, and it looks like they have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.

Anonymous said...

Wow! In my book, warriors are those in the military dodging bullets on foreign soil so that we can live in freedom in USA. It is an insult to our fighting men and women to call someone who is in violation of scripture for suing a brother in court a 'warrior'! Not to mention the 'misstatements'. This is like the media covering up for Obama and all his lying. It's absolutely unbelievable. Where are the examples of integrity and truthfulness here?

If anyone wonders why young people are leaving the church, hypocrisy is one of the top reasons on the list. I'll say his much I haven't even heard Mac Brunson compliment Ergun in a long time.

Thinking something to be an answer to prayer doesn't mean it is so. Impatience in prayer can lead one to think their answer was given by lack of other visible options. Abraham and Sarah thought their answer to prayer was from God because Hagar was available.

Anonymous said...

Wow! In my book, warriors are those in the military dodging bullets on foreign soil so that we can live in freedom in USA. It is an insult to our fighting men and women to call someone who is in violation of scripture for suing a brother in court a 'warrior'! Not to mention the 'misstatements'. This is like the media covering up for Obama and all his lying. It's absolutely unbelievable. Where are the examples of integrity and truthfulness here?

If anyone wonders why young people are leaving the church, hypocrisy is one of the top reasons on the list. I'll say his much I haven't even heard Mac Brunson compliment Ergun in a long time.

Thinking something to be an answer to prayer doesn't mean it is so. Impatience in prayer can lead one to think their answer was given by lack of other visible options. Abraham and Sarah thought their answer to prayer was from God because Hagar was available.

Anonymous said...

I was reading Jim Rogers reply....and thinking Tom......bloggers do run the risk of falling into strawmen arguments and looking prideful themselves, not saying you are at all, but in talking to some others about blog like yours they say that they have become disenchanted with the blogs and that they are not like what they were. They also complain about blogs not really providing some sense of resolution to the issue presented in what is being brought up. For example, this issue on Ergun sound personal at least Jim interprets it this way. The issue that needs to reminded is ministerial fraud has occurred and that James White is NOT bearing a false testimony against Ergun.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S70aXNxcKdw

This man is asking what needs to be asked. He asks that Christians pray for Ergun Caner to come to true faith in Jesus Christ.

Anonymous said...

To Susan Rhodes,

You said you "know Ergun Caner is a man of integrity".

Please tell us how you determine that, keeping in mind charlatans will attempt to foster an aura of integrity.

Next, you'll have to ask yourself what you'll do if you come to find that Caner is not what he presents himself to be. Will you just say nothing?

LA

Anonymous said...

To Susan Rhodes,

You said you "know Ergun Caner is a man of integrity".

Please tell us how you determine that, keeping in mind charlatans will attempt to foster an aura of integrity.

Next, you'll have to ask yourself what you'll do if you come to find that Caner is not what he presents himself to be. Will you just say nothing?

LA

Anonymous said...

Ergun Caner should have no problem
with any of his students if they are found to be giving self contradictory answers if they should be caught cheating or plagerizing
someone elses work.