"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Thursday, November 6, 2008

Mac on "Pastoral Abuse" - Part 1, "Paige's Intro"

I've said before that if members of FBC Jax want to know what is going on in their church, if they want to know what Mac REALLY thinks about our church and our ministry and his role as pastor...you have to listen to him preach when he is AWAY from First Baptist Jacksonville. We saw this earlier this year when we found out that he thinks we are a "hotbed of legalism" where hardly anyone has a "real relationship" with Jesus Christ, that we just have a list of rules.

So it is the case again, and this time his sermon is quite shocking...and very sad. A sermon preached Wednesday November 5th, 2008 at the Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary (SWBTS) chapel service that could be entitled "Pastoral Abuse"...not about Pastor's doing the abusing, but the epidemic around the SBC that is hardly ever discussed: the poor ole pastors who get abused by their churches! Poor, pitiful pastors!

His sermon was a combination of his first two sermons in the "Flip Side of Hurt" series. He combined these sermons into one, with the overall message to the students of SWBTS of this:

Get ready, because you TOO will be attacked like I am right now being attacked at my church. If you go to a church to deliver God's vision for that church, you will be attacked and wrongly accused.

I am going to write several articles about this one sermon, and I recommend that every FBC Jax member listen to this sermon because it reveals several things that people at FBC Jax need to know concerning Mac Brunson:

1. Mac is not dealing with reality when it comes to assessing the reasons why he is facing opposition at our church;

2. Mac has a distorted, non-scriptural view of what the role of a pastor is in leading a church (which I hope his listeners at SWBTS are smart enough to reject);

3. Mac believes he has been given a vision directly from God for our church that we must accept or we are against God;

4. Mac believes he is "baptized in the holiness of God" (whatever that means) enabling him to deliver the vision to his people;

5. Mac continues his assault on women - he tells a story of Truett's wife opposing Criswell, and then without mentioning her name indicts Criswell's wife as opposing him at Dallas.

6. Macs view himself as being unfairly attacked just as Criswell was, and Adrian Rogers was, and Homer Lindsay, Sr. was, and Homer Lindsay, Jr. was, and Jerry Vines were. He gives stories about how each one was opposed. He even tells a story that casts Dr. Lindsay, Sr. as a rigid legalist. He is unable to differentiate between opposition from well-meaning people concerned about their church, and from self-inflicted wounds from a pastor's own abuse of his congregation.

7. Mac believes that deacons who have "backbones" are those that show complete loyalty to the pastor.

8. Mac believes his huge salary and perks as a mega church pastor are deserved because of the immense pressure and opposition and abuse they face.
And more....

You can listen to Mac's sermon at http://www.swbts.edu/, and go to the Chapel Archives section.

I'm starting off however with audio that is not on their website, which is Paige Patterson's introduction of Mac Brunson, where he uses Martin Luther's story of trials, and depression, and anger at the devil as an example of what Mac has endured. Here are two guys that you have to hand it to them...they will support each other through thick and thin. Mac is willing to slander Sheri Klouda for Paige...and Paige is willing to paint Mac as a victim at FBC Jax and thinks his students are stupid enough to believe it. "Birds of a feather..."

So listen to Paige Patterson's introduction and my caption commentary...and in the coming days I'll be sharing clips and commentary on Mac's sermon.


18 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thanks for directing your readers to this sermon. I appreciate Dr. Brunson's handling of this text. It's a good model of sound exposition. I trust the students - and all of us for that matter - will take to heart this important message. Thanks again for the heads up.

mark pennington said...

Hello Watchdog,well, there you go again, attacking an honest God-fearing, God-anointed, and God-appointed minister of the Gospel. Yes, I now know your argument quite well and have read enough of your other posts to have the clear picture of you as somebody that just wants to spread fear and doubt and not accept the fact that God is in control and has the ultimate authority over all church matters. If God is giving Dr. Brunson such a message to seminary students, there must be a reason for it, such as the real existence of antagonism and dissent based on an uncooperative spirit that determines to undermine God's will and disrupt His work by focusing on trivial things. In a world of many unsaved people that need the Gospel, where there are diseases, famines, natural disasters, abortions, and unspeakable crimes, do you think that God is concerned about the size of the office suite that our Pastor has? Do you truly believe that God would consider it wrong for a pastor to warn future pastors about the high probability of enduring persecution? In 2 Timothy 3:12 Paul wrote,"Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution." I believe this verse proves that Dr. Brunson is on the right track and in God's will, for he is obviously facing persecution. It's very dismaying to know that it's coming from within the church and that it has no substantial basis on which to defend itself. Oh, go ahead, call me naive and gullible again for thinking that way. If believing in the Bible and trusting in God's sovereignty is naive and gullible, I'll be happy to be those things.

Don't you think that questioning the man of God and hence, God's wisdom and providence, fall into the category of dangerous ground? It reminds me of the phrase, "play with fire and get burned." Who are we to question our Almighty God who, as I said before, could and would bring about change if He deemed it necessary? Your complaints and those of you band of anonymous supporters are based on things that wouldn't be seen by looking at the big picture. They especially wouldn't be seen if we had our focus on the up-look and not on what's around us. As Hebrews 12:2 suggests, we need to keep our focus on Jesus! That's the main point! If and when we wander away from that, we will certainly stumble and yield to the devil. Getting stressed out about the size of our Pastor's house and how he acquired land is not the result of staying focused on Jesus. Neither is complaining about what he says about his church when preaching to other groups. Pastors have been known to use examples in their sermons. That is all he is doing. Perhaps, sad as it may in fact be, there is truth in what he says. Maybe our church has gotten more legalistic and needs to amend its ways. On his mission trips, the Apostle Paul certainly talked to one church about the issues and ways of other churches. It's obviously not wrong for a pastor to refer to his church when preaching elsewhere.

If there had been computers and blogs in Old Testament times, I think people would have complained about Joshua and his command to march around the walls of Jericho for seven days! There must have been some serious murmuring and doubt on display. Good thing it didn't stop Joshua. Moses encountered plenty of friction from his followers, yet he was still blessed by God and able to do great things!

Let's keep our focus on Jesus and not allow circumstantial things bother us and slow us down in our quest to bring honor to Him and be more like Him! Let's pray for our pastor and offer encouragement, help, and a positive attitude that promotes unity and preparation to achieve things for God and His Kingdom!

Anonymous said...

Comments on the comments in Pt. 1:
1. Mac not facing reality regarding opposition he is facing.
A. Read the comment called "Narcissim In The Pulpit" on the previos blog. labeled "Deja Vu All over Again", It is the next to last blog. written by someone (don't know who) who appears to know what they are talking about. The date of it is Nov.5th 8:04 P.M.

2.Distorted non scriptural view of his pastoral role: A. Hopefully there are SOME at SWBTS that see this situation for what it is. If they do why are they still there? Others are totally brainwashed or are playing the game in order to get in the "business" with the approval of the "high flyers".

3. Mac receives visions directly form God. A. This is dangerous. Visions ceased 1st century, with the Apostle John and his revelation on the Isle of Patmos. Watch that Kool Aid it could be too strong.

4.Mac believes he is "baptised in the holiness of God, therefore he has vision for church. A. Here's where the Pope stuff comes in. This is Catholic Doctrine. Mac can't make up his mind if he wants to be Catholic, Calvanist,or Baptist. I would suggest you watch out for these false doctrines sneaking into the church (FBC). I see a lot of Calvanism in the church now. Calvanism believes God will save whom He will, therefore no real need or emphasis on visitation, or soul winning!

5.Macs disdain for women that he perceives have given opposition to the church.A. But no one dares question his wife, regarding her job on staff and accompanying salary of unknown amount. Or question why she is paid to travel away from church and still be paid. Guess her job is to assist him. Maybe we should have paid Mrs. Lindsay who did a yeomans job for this church. Also should have paid Mrs. Vines. But, then Mac did say in an interview with the SBC reporter last pastors conference that "Women were more in touch with the Holy Spirit than men". Guess this "in touch", would exclude Mrs. Klouda. Another question regarding Mrs. Brunson: Did she ever get baptised in the Baptist church therefore becoming an official Baptist, since she is on staff in this church. Mac stated from the pulpit that she was a Presbyterian-Calvanist.

6. Mac's unfair assessment of other pastors ministries. Especially the Lindsay's, whom he never met. A. The Lindsay's were never "attacked" as far as I know. There was no need for it. If someone had a question it was answered and if it was a legitimate concern it was addressed. You could talk to these men anytime, anywhere. Dr Lindsay Sr. could NEVER be described as a rigid legalist. NEVER! He preached the Word and stuck by it. So did Lindsay Jr., the Bible was THE Authority not visions nor a marketing firm. The Bible...Got It?
Some call others legalist when they don't play fast and loose with Gods Word. If they don't twist it or change it to meet their agenda. Who is the "legalist" here, maybe the one that demands total loyalty no matter what.

7.Deacons loyalty and "backbones" questioned unless they comply totally. A. You mean the Kool Aid drinkers that think Mac is to be followed at all cost. Even off the cliff. One day hopefully they will come out from under the "spell" they are in.

8. Mac tries to justify huge salary, perks and nepotisim as deserved. A. Mac thinks he is deserving of ALL because he is so pressured and opposed. Well, how would one explain that he got it all in writing BEFORE he set foot in FBCJ. Did he know ahead of time he would be opposed and pressured? Even when people were welcoming him and giving him land gifts. Free condo stays for a year major office renovation to specifications etc., etc. all within 30 days of arrival. Question: If they stay here longer what do we have to give them? All is just my opinion, of course.

Anonymous said...

Birds of a feather flock together...its that simple.

Anonymous said...

KING-TO BE KING AND THE FALL AS KING IIChron 26,27,and 28.

Uzziah became king at sixteen. When he was older and STRONG," his heart was lifted"..."he went into the temple of the Lord to burn incense". For some reason he wanted to be PRIEST. Instantly he became a leper.

TURN AROUND!

Is MAC BRUNSON, A PASTOR[PRIEST], trying to become KING? If so, what are the consequences?

SIN CAN HAVE INSTANT RAMIFICATIONS.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Hi Mark - when I listen to Mac's sermon at SWBTS, I am amazed. I hear a self-absorbed egomaniac that can't deal with reality. It is BREATH-TAKING to hear a man speak as he does. I can only imagine that this is happening because no one loves Mac enough to tell him the truth of what is happening to him. Its sad. Apparently not even Paige Patterson loves Mac enough to tell him to open his eyes, quit playing the victim, and to see that God is trying to get his attention.

Might Jerry Vines love Mac enough to tell him the truth? Maybe a trustee? Perhaps A.C. Soud?

In this sermon I hear a man stooping so low as to attack previous pastors' wives. How long will it be before he attacks Mrs. Lindsay now that she has passed?

I hear a man acknowledge that he is earning big dollars, and then proceeds to explain that he does because of the complete hell that he must endure as a mega church pastor. Notice he does NOT tell the students about the quarter million dollar gift he received, or the dollar amount of his salary and his wife's salary...he doesn't want to talk about all the REWARDS he has as a mega church pastor, he just wants to talk about how hard he has it.

He has totally disgraced himself now. He wants to travel all over the country and poor mouths about his situation at FBC Jax...and then has the audacity to proclaim that it is because he is living a holy life and trying to do great things in carrying out God's vision given to him. If you would take the time to listen to the man's sermon Mark, in light of all that has gone on at our church the last 2 1/2 years, you might be able to see through this fog you are in.

But I'm glad you are at least reading the blog and are attempting to defend Mac instead of attacking the bloggers.

You are welcome to post here.

Anonymous said...

Baptised in the holiness of God:

1. Not scriptural
2. Not church doctrine
3. Has not happened since canon of scriptures were finished
4. Not possible in this church age
5. Only possible in Millenium
6. Anyone on earth claiming this does not have a full deck
7. Visions were also finished 1900 years ago under Peter, Paul, and Johns ministries
8. This is how CULTS get started
9. Better keep a close eye on these type of characters. Maybe some like Halle Boppers or David Karish. Dumbfounded how anyone could even dare to make such unbibilical statements.

Who are they trying to impress? Certainly not a real bible believer. Must take a huge ego to place himself in such a close "proximity to God. I recall the verse: all have come short of the glory of the Lord.

God help us.

Anonymous said...

Mac constantly whines and complains about how rough he has it and the "hell" he must endure, as a mega church pastor. Even though he doesn't "pastor", in my opinion. This tells me, as most of us have figured out, he isn't called to be a pastor. He is in "hell" because he doesn't belong in a pulpit!!!!! He all but admits, by actions and words that it's the money (he deserves) that keeps him here. Trustees do you guys see anything? Mac said awhile back from the pulpit that he didn't want to be a local preacher. If you listen long enough you hear him say what is really on the inside trying to get out.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Maybe Mac's severance pay could be a free ride to law school, since he has said numerous times he wanted to "go in to law". Only problem the admissions committee would laugh when they saw his degrees.

But about this "baptized into the holiness of God"...he said it in the context of this:

If a pastor tries to put before the people some great, grand plan that only God could do, AND the pastor "gets a hold of the holiness of God...you get baptized in the holiness of God, if you understand what I mean, you start living a holy life, get God's vision for that church and I can assure you somebody carnal somewhere is going to confront you."

A couple of questions:

1. Is there joy in pastoring? Was Vines wrong when he continually spoke of the joy of being our pastor?

2. What does it mean to be "baptized in the holiness of God"? Is that something that only pastors that have visions for a church get? Why does he say "if you understand what I mean"?

This guy is perhaps demented. It is quite scary.

But really, its just Mac "popping off". If there's anything that we've learned about Mac is he doesn't prepare his sermons well. His history is not accurate as I've blogged, and he speaks "off the cuff" and says things that are overreaching, over-reacting, or half truths. What he's trying to say is: "I'm such a DARNED good guy...I do nothing wrong...I only intend good at my church...I'm living as holy and righteous as I can....and I STILL can't get my way in the church."

Anonymous said...

1) Pastors are often the lightning rod for church dissent.

2) A pastor's predecessors are not the only cause of alienation of affection from church members.

3) New pastors will never live up to the idealized memories of the sainted predecessors, so they cut their own road to sainthood and pathway to self-glorification.

Anonymous said...

Blogger of 7:05 Self glorification being the key words there.

Thy Peace said...

I would like to repost these two comments from the earlier posts. They are very relevant here.

Let's talk transparency!
This morning I attended one of several discussion groups in our church. The church has a membership of 1200. The sessions were grouped by age (by decade), beginning with pre-teen & teenagers to senior adults. These sessions were scattered throughout the week at times most appropriate for participation. A week before the discussions took place, our pastor sent every member a letter outlining core, example issues and questions he and the deacons offered for possible guideline question for the church as a whole. The letter included 15 suggestions to consider but were not limited to only to those presented.

Examples below were offered for consideration.

1)Why did you start attending FBC?
2)What are the major reasons you are presently attending FBC?
3)What do you believe to be the purpose of FBC? Are we achieving that purpose? What can we do to effectively carry it out?
4)What are our strengths at FBC? What are we doing well? How can we improve them?
5)What are our weaknesses? What areas do we need to address where we are deficient? What do we need to do?
6)IF YOU COULD DEVELOP YOUR IDEAL CHURCH, WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE?
7)If our church lived up to God's expectations, in one year we would do what? In three years we would do what? In five years and beyond we would do what?

I will not list the remaining questions included, but do you get the jest? We were asked to pray earnestly before the meetings but were encouraged to be bold and not withhold any concerns you possibly would be hesitant to put on the table.

The discussions concluded tonight after regular service, minutes were taken and a recap-report will be issued and members will be notified the results of each session. No changes will be make or instituted before the general congregation has a final chance to offer additional input, positive or negative.

Also, if you were unable to attend your scheduled time, you could write your ideas and send them to the church, or if physically unable to attend a church messenger would pick them up and deliver them to the deacon chairman.

We were advised to stop and seek God's direction for the future and get a new vision for the times ahead.

Further transparency is provided as copies of the by-laws and budgets are placed in the front vestibule and you are encouraged to take a copy home.

Our pastor has been here 20 years, graduated from SWBTS and teaches and preaches from the bible as his authority.

We indeed are fortunate thus far that God's will is our authority, not man.

Thank you,
Esther

Yes, our church is one of many called First Baptist Church. Most every town or city has one so named.



We have a child(young person) older than Trey ...
We have a child(young person) older than Trey, that is so turned off with the hypocrisy going on down at FBC, said young person refuses to go to church ANYWHERE. This young person grew up in FBC and was Saved under Dr. Lindsay's ministry, and was very active in S.S. and T.U.,Choir, etc. Rarely missed a service, growing up. Loved Dr. Lindsay. This is a terrible situation. As now young person (YP) is very angry at the treatment that has been given to our entire family, and unless God reaches this YP later in life, probably will never enter church of any kind again. We have done our best to instill Godliness in this child since birth. Now it is very hard for us to keep the separation between preachers, and leaders and the fact that Jesus is not part of this hypocrisy. So what has happened is the preacher and the church leaders have become a huge STUMBLING BLOCK, to my entire family. Said Young Person still has fond memories of Dr. Lindsay and still has love in the heart for him. But says he is dead now and this church is over. What's so sad is, I have heard this from several YP.s, that went to FBC. Our family will never go back, due to treatment received by pastors and many members that are trying to be somebody down there. I call it the church of the Stumbling Block Heads. By the way, how many people are getting SAVED there now? Said, Young Person says they are SAVED, but wants nothing to do with church or preachers. YP understands that Jesus is not the church and that Jesus probably doesn't approve of situations down there either. Nevertheless, nothing changes and leadership continues on. What a legacy. Dr. Lindsay would be appalled. This would never have happened under his watch.

Anonymous said...

Mark described Brunson as "an honest God-fearing, God anointed, and God appointed minister of God." Tell me why then he again thought it appropriate to "GOSSIP" from the pulpit, no matter who he was referring, let alone gossiping about persons who were recognized by name by everyone who listened. By doing so, he, by example, opens up his wife as fair game. If it's alright for Mac to do it, I suppose it is o.k. That reference will rise up to bite him. Good for the goose, good for the gander.

Yes Mark, many do "get the big picture you reference," but visions are on the opposite ends of the truth and reality. Your end seems to be myopic, new glasses will change that.

If the minister is prolific in gossipping in an open forum, what does he do behind closed doors with is cronies? Great, Godly example he sets.

Anonymous said...

Mark: positive attitude and unity. Sounds like the democratic party after they just won the election. Prior to Nov 4 they were hurling stones at McCann and Palin.

What you do not get is that a lot of the congregation has moved to other churches. Just look at the attendance on Sunday and Wednesday evenings. Those are not imaginary empty seats they are really empty. This church was, at one time, almost full capacity in all services. What you ignore are the facts Watchdog has brought to our attention through this series of blogs. What you forget are the folks who were told to leave and go to another church. What you ignore are a lot of good workers are no longer at FBC. What you forget are the folks who have been replaced that worked there alongside Lindsay and Vines. Mrs. Lindsay Sr worked for FREE for over 45 years alongside her pastor husband and years after he passed. Mrs. Lindsay Jr also did the same for 40 years. Yes, a new office suite totaling $200,00-$400,000 was not financially the best idea when other offices used by Lindsay and Vines were available and would be considered quite grand by most pastors of any size church. All of this for UNITY?

As for persecution you completely ignore those who have left for one reason or another and you do not have the slightest hint of compassion or consider them being persecuted? I suppose they were just needed subtractions?.

Don't try to sell us on your stated points as they do not hold water. As for running over to Dallas and telling the students he is worth it (financially) and that he is suffering so much for having to put up with some dissenters is not worthy of a comment. I have observed both in life and in the Bible, the people that were chosen by God, and were most successful in His work were always HUMBLE. Another thing, how do you know that God's hands are not working for good on this blog? You imagine that, because you do not see anything legitimate regarding the points of concern brought up on this blog site. You believe that everything is perfect, and assume Watchdog and all that post on here are outside of God's Will??? Shame on you. How would you know. You are not qualified to make that call. Watchdog has been, for over a year, attempting to reach either the pastor, his wife, the congregation, trustees, and the deacons with an emphasis on returning to the foundation that made FBC great. Stick to the Bible and reveal a real heart for the people as the former pastors did. And is all of this traveling around the globe necessary? How can you minister when you are away 8-10 weeks or more a year? Paid , I might add.

Lastly, do not compare Mac Brunson or anyone else to Moses or Joshua. They actually talked to God in their flesh and God talked to them. The people all followed Joshua around the city, and there is no record of any disharmony.

You sound young, and probably have not been in this church when the Lord was in charge. When the Bible was taught word for word, without compromise and without ERROR by Godly men. Believe me the difference between then and now is both remarkable and sad. Also, I have observed, Yes men never do a service to their leader nor to themselves, ultimately.

Get real.

Anonymous said...

Watchdog, have you thought about why Brunson nor leadership answer any of this blogs, criticism, nor do they answer criticism when it is openly directed to them? It's because they CAN'T. They truthfully, have no defense for their actions. All they can do is whine and complain to "outside, sympathetic audiences". What preacher assumes he is doing Gods work when he goes outside of the church he is supposed to be "pastoring" (ha) and grumbles about how misunderstood, and misaligned he is? Obviously, he is not doing Gods work if he is unsuccessful and unhappy? And conflict so abounds. I might also add what right does he have to take an enormous salary, plus perks, and family salaries, while "grumbling" about the people paying him. I know he thinks he is divinely given this money by God because he deserves it, but the truth is the PEOPLE that he "grumbles" about give the money he takes. Those are the same people that he goes all over the country griping about. What other job or employer would allow an employee to get away with that? And regardless of what anyone thinks he is in the employ of FBCJ. This is a bad marriage.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Abusers have a hard time seeing themselves as abusers.

At this very moment, do you believe Darrel Gilyard sees himself as an abuser?

Of course NOT! He does NOT! He believes he is a victim of the women he himself has abused.

This comes from a demented view that he is the "man of God" and has special annointing from God, more than other men. This is taught in the seminary (Mac just taught it yesterday at SWBTS), and it has been taught in the churches that the pastor is the annointed, blessed, singled out man of God like a Moses or Joshua to whom special honor and privilege and pay should be given. Read Mark's post above and you'll see that he's bought into it and is pushing that nonsense here on this blog!

This perverse view of a pastor enables abuse. To be taught that he is a special "man of God", that is "baptized in the holiness of God" (Mac's words), and that he "receives visions from God for the church" (Mac's words)...it has enabled abuse after abuse after abuse in churches

It was what enabled boys and girs (mostly boys) to be abused by priests in the Catholic church.

It is what allowed Gilyard to prey on women and perhaps teenagers to get them to perform sex acts with him.

It is what allowed Bob Grey to take little boys and girls into his office with the door closed and fondle them and kiss them and no one dared DEMAND that he not do this. If I ever saw a man, pastor, teacher, whoever...take a little boy or girl behind closed doors without their parent, I would either knock on the door or call 9-1-1. But the perverted view that he was "God's annointed" kept the mouths shut of hundreds of people at that church.

Now, you might say that we had this view of Lindsay and Vines - that they were "men of God" with special annointing and favor.

Maybe...Ok, let's assume we did.

THEN IT WAS ONLY BY THE GRACE AND MERCY AND LOVE OF GOD THAT OUR CHURCH ACTUALLY HAD GODLY MEN THAT DID NOT USE OUR TRUST AND END UP ABUSING US AND/OR OUR CHILDREN. THANK YOU JESUS THAT WE HAD HOMER LINDSAY AND NOT BOB GREY.

Do you understand that FBC Jax? We were no different than Trinity Church. We just as easily could have had a Bob Grey at our church.

We now have a man who is not abusing children, but he's abusing the congregation financially, and now he is abusing us by preaching around the convention about how hard is life is as a mega church pastor, and he is abusing us by not preaching the word but history and twisting scripture, and by nepotism, and by converting our pastors conference into a marketing bonanza...and the many other abuses that I've blogged about here.

And Mac will never admit it. Never. Never. If he leaves it will be to leave recalcitrants who didn't obey God.

Like other abusers, he views HIMSELF as the victim, and is not afraid to say he's a victim to hundreds of seminary students and thousands of Christians who hear him on the Internet.

Wow. Shocking. But not surprising. We've seen it over and over and over.

Anonymous said...

Ps 15:27

He that is GREEDY of gain troubleth his own house; but he that hateth GIFTS shall live.

Guarddog, we have been reading about the trouble that mega churches are having all over the country. The last President of the SBC even said it was so and that the future success of the church was in the hands of small churches.

So what is the problem? The problem is in the LESSON PLAN that Lifeway and all of the Seminaries are using. I say all; but actually I can't actually say all even though the evidence looks like ALL.

Lifeway is pumping out PURPOSE DRIVEN literature to the SBC churches and the churches look to the literature for how to conduct church.

The pastors look at what Rick Warren says about how to conduct church and they emplement Rick's plan. Lifeway is using Rick's plan. Rick says your future is in entertainment and fellowship. The fact is the success of a church has always been in WINNING SOULS and PREACHING JESUS. I should have said in PREACHING JESUS AND WINNING SOULS. For if you are preaching Jesus you will be about winning souls.

So Mac we pray that you will get your order and priorities in order.
We know that you have bought into the Rick Warren plan. Maurilio has bought into the Rick Warren plan. The evidence is all around us. You can not hide a fact. There is truth Mac even though you refuse to preach it.

If FBCJAX continues to live in the PD plan it will continue to go down hill.

We look for the church to continue to have financial problems. I think we may even start to see us selling off some of SBCJAX properties as our numbers drop and the need for these buildings is no longer required.

Deacons and Trustees do your homework. See if what is said here is true. Change your direction and get back to what has always worked. It is Jesus men, Jesus!!!

Anonymous said...

Hey WD readers - yes, I just read my New Testament again and Jesus did say we would be persecuted if we follow him. So Mac is right. Mac is being persecuted for following Jesus: He must live in a million dollar home in a gated community on the golf course; he must work out of 3000 sf luxury office suite with his wife and dogs; he must work with his newlywed son; he must travel the world, go to book signings, preach at conferences and seminarys, make a $300 -$500K salary, deal with Christians that honestly believe he his "God's man", and on and on." Can't you all see the persecution he is under.

Oh, you mean he gets some emails and there is a blog about his abuses? So what? Give me all we have given him, and all that he has taken for himself and his family, in the name of Jesus, and I will be glad to receive some emails and you can blog all you want. But just keep on giving brothers.