"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Friday, November 21, 2008

"Heart" and "Annointed" Preaching

Many, many church members who have attended First Baptist Church for an extended time, who have sat under the preaching of the Lindsays, Vines, and now Brunson - they know that there is an "emptiness" in Mac's preaching. There is something VASTLY different in his sermons as compared to Vines and Lindsay. I wish to share my thoughts here on what this difference is.

For many, its hard to pinpoint the emptiness, or to even express what it is. What is it about his preaching that leaves one with the feeling that you perhaps have heard a good "speech", but not a heart-stirring, convicting, loving, encouraging yet challenging, sermon from a Bible preacher? You get in the car, and its hard to even discuss what his point of the sermon was. The kids didn't quite get it, and perhaps the wife was lost in the history and emotionalism and theatrics as well. Those who sat under Vines and the Lindsays KNOW what I'm talking about. The sermons emanating from the pulpit of FBC Jacksonville were clear, simple yet profound, basic for the young yet deep for the mature - and they were life changing. Little theatrics, there was no introduction video, much smaller imag screens, no moving from the top platform to the bottom, no open weeping. But they for sure were life changing messages - and the accumulation of these messages in the hearts of people built one of the greatest churches in our land.

After watching the theatrics of Mac Sunday night, weeping, crying, then yelling and then crying again...with very few visible tears (watch the video - look for the tears), I am going to try to explain it. Maybe my explanation will resonate with some of you.

Let me try to explain it by defining "heart" and "annointed" preaching.

Jerry Vines wrote two books on preaching, "A Guide to Effective Sermon Delivery" and "A Guide to Effective Sermon Preparation". I understand these are textbooks used in many seminaries.

In the book on sermon delivery, Vines explains all the mechanics of how to effectively deliver a sermon; the mechanical, mental, and rhetorical methods. A very technical explanation. Like Jerry Vines - it is a book that is very detailed and technical, but easily understandable! I can see how this is a book read by many preachers preparing for the ministry.

But his last two chapters in this book he discusses two aspects of sermon delivery: "heart preaching" and "annointed preaching".

Vines' points out that a preacher can have all the other aspects of sermon delivery mastered in his book, but if you are not a "heart" preacher (sincere, concerned, loving) or if you are not an "annointed" preacher (the Holy Spirit working through your sermon), its all in vain. Its empty preaching.

In my opinion, and I know my opponents here will disagree, Mac is not an annointed preacher. This to me has been very apparent for some time. Why do I say he is not an annointed preacher? I guess I'll explain it in my own layman's terms like this: Mac is less interested in the Holy Spirit bringing conviction to his listeners, than he is in FORCIBLY getting his listeners to agree with HIM...he FORCIBLY, sometimes angrily, will try to get people to see their shortcomings. He believes himself to be loving. But he speaks with heavy condescension to his listeners. Nowhere in scripture do I ever see Jesus condescendingly, angrily, preaching to people (except for the Pharisees, the arrogant religious leaders of his day - but never to the sheep). Mac preaches from a mountain down to the plebe. His over-use of history is very selfish as he expects his listeners to share his own love for history else they will be lost or confused as many don't uderstand the historical contexts. In short, he doesn't seem to trust the Holy Spirit to take his words and fit them to each of the listeners' hearts, to bring convinction to the lost to be saved, or to convict the saved to repentence and service.

The preaching of the great preachers of the past (Vines mentions Criswell and Truett and R.G. Lee) like Vines (still preaching!), Lindsay, and Rogers...these men would preach and all ages and all conditions of men would be touched by the Holy Spirit in one single sermon - and it wasn't even intention in most cases! The people of FBC Jax and BBC and FBC Dallas know what I'm talking about. Children could learn and understand their sermons. The lost man was convicted of his need to be saved. The backslidden Christian would be compelled to return to Christ. The lazy church member who wasn't serving as he should was moved to serve - and all this in one single sermon heard by thousands of listeners. For Mac, many of the children get nothing as they are lost in his history and scared by his anger...the lost man and visitors are put off by his arrogance and unloving attitude towards those he SHOULD love (his church members)...and the Christians aren't touched perhaps as they should be because of his unloving complaining and harping and condescension. I believe the whole package of his delivery, his attitude, his "aire", his condescension; it all serves to squelch the Holy Spirit's ability to do what He wants to do.

Mac and Smyrl place great emphasis on formal seminary training for even lay people - but the truth is a man may have a doctorate from a seminary, but the Holy Spirit can much more use a non-seminary, uneducated layman to deliver God's word than an un-annointed preacher with a list of degrees after his name- and those at FBC Jax that have been touched by the sweet bible teachers at our church in Sunday School know what I mean! This is another reason, by the way, perhaps that Mac is meeting great resistance to his scheme of forcing us into small groups. We are not being fed by his sermons and now of all things he is wanting us to huddle in small groups to discuss some predetermined questions - when what we want in the Sunday School hour is an annointed, heart, loving, bible teacher to teach a lesson - and they do NOT need to be taught "Old Testament 101" by Jim Smyrl or Rush Whitt to be qualified to deliver such a bible lesson. Am I getting through here?

But not only is Mac not "annointed", he also is not a "heart" preacher. He doesn't show any love toward his people in his preaching. If he really does love his congregation it NEVER comes out in his preaching. It doesn't even come out in his announcements when he does them. He may be a great guy in his office or after the service or at the restaurant, but 90% of his listeners will never have the opportunity to know him and share an evening or meal with him. What we know about Mac, the REAL Mac must come forth from his preaching. And the Mac that comes forth is angry, unloving, boastful, arrogant. And this is totally separate from the fact that he has been preaching a legalistic form of Christianity (service and tithing out of DUTY not love). I'm not even talking about that, but just his lack of genuine heart-felt love for his people. Now, if he is not angry, unloving, boastful and arrogant in real life, one on one...then he really needs to bring his preaching in line with the real Mac. Otherwise its just a show - he's a performer. People that knew Vines and Lindsay knew that what they were in the pulpit was what they were in real life. They weren't showmen.

I'll leave you with this: for Vines to point out that "heart" and "annointed" preaching are the ultimate requisites for effective preaching, is to also say, sadly, there are preachers lacking in those. And we have one that I believe is lacking in both.

Here is an excerpt from Vines' book, from the chapter on "heart" preaching:

"Perhaps the reason there has been a recoil against heart preaching is the extreme to whch some preachers have gone. There is an insincerity that is obnoxious in the pulpit, if not embarrassing. The preacher who sheds crocodile tears and who purposely works up his congregation to accomplish his own ends is not actually a heart preacher. Such preaching is basically insincerity covered with a pretense of emotion."

That is where WE are at. And its so painfully obvious, I don't know why men who should be Mac's mentors like Vines and Hunt, won't read Mac the riot act and help him to change his ways - that is if it is possible at all. If Vines is sitting idly by, and criticizing anonymous bloggers while he is letting Mac behave as he is, he shares in the guilt of the destruction of our church.

69 comments:

Thy Peace said...

WD, can you comment on the following sermons?

- Pastor Mac's Mother's Day sermon

- Pastor Vines last years Pastor's Conference sermon

Just to recollect your memories:

Pastor Mac preached about "how to talk" to your mates.

Pastor Vines preached about Revelations and what happens in heaven.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Vines sermon:

I remember it was just very good to hear Vines preach a bible sermon. It was on heaven. Very simple, yet profound. Nothing fancy. Just a BIBLE SERMON. And it had been nearly a year since hearing a bible sermon and not a speech or show. Vines' sermon wasn't about him, or his family, or his sons wrestling, or how he is being attacked, or how loving he is when he is attacked. It didn't have the word "slander" in it. He didn't tell me a long history lesson about the greeks or the 5th Roman legion. He didn't dwell on the Old Testament, didn't try to give me "5 ways to handle stress from the life of Job"....he wasn't angry, he didn't try to tell me my bible has a wrong word in it. He didn't bring it around to "small groups" and "schools". He didn't weep, he didn't Amen himself, he didn't criticize us for not amening soon enough or loud enough. He didn't pause condescendingly to let a point sink in because we're too stupid to get his point.

So yes, it was a great bible sermon.

It was everything Mac's sermons are not...it it was not what most of Mac's sermons are.

Now, the Mother's Day message...I don't recall it exactly, but going off memory I might be wrong but it was about communication. As I recall, I might be wrong...it wasn't terribly scriptural based but was Mac's helpful hints on communication. That was the sermon I believe he told us how he bought fruit and milk while wife was jogging, and when she returned she was so happy and "made it well worth it, heh, heh"

Big Tuna said...

LOL, I submit to you dear floppy earred one that there are few "annointed" sermons in most baptist churches. Baptist are cessationists who don't believe the "whole" Word. No annointing, no power, but that's a discussion above my paygrade.

By the way guard-dog, I love reading the FBC drama you write about and find it terribly entertaining, sorta like viewing a car accident in progress. I like forward to the updates on the soap opera of downtown Jax. Homer use to proclaim it the "miracle" of downtown Jacksonville, not anymore.

Thy Peace said...

Thanks WD.

I did like Pastor Mac's sermon during Mother's day. Though it was light on scripture, it was somewhat light hearted preaching and he seemed very sincere. I did not wish to compare Pastor Mac's sermon during the Pastor's Conference, because I felt that was not up to his standard. I find he has very good delivery of his sermons, reasonably good historical illustrations. I found some of his sermons to be good, though he dwelt on one word (as in during The Lord's Prayer) per sermon. I truly can not comment on the biblical substance of his sermons, because I do not have lot of experience to compare it to.

About Pastor Vines, that was the only sermon I had heard of him. He is easy to listen to and follow to. Though he was getting in his years, he seemed sprightful and active, even though he was tired that evening after his travel. He did stick to the Bible, though he gave lot of humorous illustrations or jokes. I have seen Pastor Mac do these jokes too.

It would be nice, if fbcjax can post some of these historic or sample sermons of their rich history and heritage, either in audio or video. I would like to hear some sample sermons of Lindsay Sr., Lindsay Jr., and Vines. Just to get all this in proper perspective.

I am sure I will learn from other bloggers as they comment on this post.

Big Tuna said...

Another thought in passing. In the "old" days of the not so distant past. Members of FBC would volunteer to house visiting pastors to the pastors conference. Do those folks get in free to the premium sessions? Speaking of premium, team Brunson should also start premium seating for services. Pay more, get front (or back row) seating sort of like a Jaguar game. With ideas like these, I should probably be on Stimlers committee. Speaking of Stimler, why are alot of baptist pastors and members heavy (fat), sorta like the Stimler? Guess there is no power or annointing over what they put in their mouths....now that's above my paygrade.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Good thinking Tuna. The "non committed" recalcitrants could be kept in the balcony, those who have signed their allegience form can sit downstairs. We do have a spot reserved for Team Brunson family members, so the face shots of Honey can be caught multiple times during the service.

But seriously, as ridiculous as it sounds to have preferred seating, it would have been just as ridiculous to say that we would charge for advertising space at the pastor's conference, and actually sell access to the podium for an "infomercial/testimony"....or that a pastor would air a commercial in the middle of his sermon for the family of the man who GAVE the pastor a $307,000 piece of land free and clear.

If 10 years ago you had said either of those two would happen, I would have laughed in your face.

So once we go down this road of "church marketing", there's no telling where it will stop. And as he keeps getting away with it, he will do more and more of it. When he realizes there is NO ONE that will stand up to his tactics, that he is the KING, when not even Vines or Hunt will tell Mac that he is blowing it, then watch out. Slow motion train wreck.

Anonymous said...

Watchdog, you pretty well covered it all. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Before Mac arrived we already new we were in for some big CHANGES.

Appearantly the pulpit committee and Mac did not want the type of preaching that we had been used to. So we have something different. Less heart no annointing and more about MAN AND LESS ABOUT JESUS CHRIST AND OUR LOVING HEAVENLY FATHER. You can't have it both ways.

When Dr Lindsay would come to the pulpit the first words that came out of his mouth was OPEN YOUR BIBLE TO... When Mac comes to the pulpit he says open THE COPY of your BIBLE. The word COPY is Middle English for IMITATION. What Mac preaches from is an imitation of the bible not the real thing.

So many of the PD preachers have fallen into the trap of preaching something other than Jesus Christ. God is a jealous God. He is not going to annoint a preacher that preaches man and not Jesus Christ. Mac just preaches HIStory and not the bible.

Maybe it is time for a CHANGE back to what WORKED.

Anonymous said...

Secessionst:

Guarddog I think bigtuna has something there. Are the Southern Baptist Convention Churches SECEDING from the old time SEPERATIST BAPTIST ways? Is there no OLD TIME RELIGION anymore? Has it all gone away?

You can look at the faces of the members of FBCJAX and see the hurt; the longing for what once was.

"Give me that old time religion, it's good enough for me."

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Big Tuna - can you explain cessationist? I thought that term was used to describe those that believe the revelation of God ended with the scripture, and there is no more revelation via man.

Thy Peace said...

Here is the definition of Cessationism from Wiki
In Christian theology, cessationism is the view that the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as tongues, prophecy and healing, ceased being practiced early on in Church history.
Cessationists usually believe the miraculous gifts were given only for the foundation of the Church, during the time between the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, c. AD 33 (see Acts 2) and the fulfillment of God's purposes in history, usually identified as either the completion of the last book of the New Testament or the death of the last Apostle. Its counterpart is continuationism.



Here are two good blog posts on Cessationism.
Wade's Blog: Cessationism

Anonymous said...

Guarddog

while bigtuna is formulating his words, let me explain my words. I believe you are correct in your understanding of what the word cessationists means. What I was refering to by ceceding is the withdrawal of annointed preaching in the SBC to a CORPERATE TYPE OF PREACHING. Corperate type preaching meaning PREACHING that is more inclined to preach a message the will PROMOTE the CORPERATION rather than God's Church.

I believe we have a following away from the preaching of God's Word today.

it is written said...

Dr.Dog......You are absolutely correct in accessing that there is no annointing in Brunson preaching...BECAUSE THERE IS NONE!!!...In order to have annointed preaching one must love(agape)God with all their being the 1st Great Commandment and secondly he will love(agape)his fellow(neighbor)man as himself[Matt.22:37-40]....Dr.Dog the problem lies in the fact that Brunson has these great commandments distorted....To him they read..(1)Mac thou shall love Mac with all thy being..(2)Mac shall love Mac as Mac loves himself.....Dr.Dog Mac loves himself that's why the preaching is empty and abusive and the people are abused....His condensending attitude indicates a man who thinks highly of himself....As I have previously mentioned....In his preaching it is never us,we,our it is always you,your,you all,you people and some type of criticism....The man thinks he has arrived and no one else at FBC Jax has reach the pinnacle Christian perfection and maturity...Dr.Dog to have heart felt annointed preaching or teaching one must have a heart like God and a great love for God....God stated that King David was a man after His own Heart on the contrast King Saul was chosen by the people because of his physical features among other human qualities....But God warned them that they(the people)chose a King based on human attritubes and that the King that they chose WOULD ABUSE THEM[1Kings 8:5-21]....Brunson is not a man after God's on heart he is a man after his own heart and there in lies the problem....And the confusion over Brunson by you and others as to why he behaves like he behaves is also in the Scriptures......The Bible states "You will know them by their fruit(actions,works,behavior).A good tree CAN NOT produce bad fruit,nor CAN A BAD TREE produce good fruit"[Matt.7:18-20]....BRUNSON IS A BAD TREE!!!!.Lets examine some of his fruit..(1)Covetous::Their is absolutely no excuse and I mean none for a man that is suppose love God to demand that a Church pay him 30,000 per month or he ain't(not isn't:AIN'T)coming;;A 1 million dollar house;;Luxury automobiles;;Spending 100,000 dollars to refurbish an office for him and his mangy mutts(when a good enough office existed);;The Europe and Israel trips(I wish I could afford to go),etc.How many people attend FBC Jax who are on fixed incomes,lost jobs,etc and are financially struggling?....(2)His manipulation and abandoning of the scriptures(tithing,1Cor.13:8,history)..(3)His unholy alliances::The day of faith,the Israel function,the secular advertising groups(a-group and others),the selling of advertising spots,purpose driven methodology,etc..(4)His condescending attitude..(5)His abusive,conceited,arrogant verbal abuse from the pulpit..(6)Deceitfulness::Secretly changing the by-laws;;withholding pertinent info in order for the people to may intelligent decisions on church matters..hiding his salary and that of his wife,son,etc....Dr.Dog a leopard cannot change it's stripes nor can Brunson change his ways unless he humbles himself under the Mighty Hand of God..This is why I always state that it will get worse and worse(2Tim.3:13)because the Bible is NEVER wrong....The descriptions of the characteristics of men like Brunson are in the Bible....There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for this once great Church to be in this DECLINING deplorable condition!!!!!!

it is written said...

Dr.Dog.....Correction on the Bible scripture given..It is not 1Kings 8:5-21 it is 1Samuel 8:5-21...excuse the error..(I guess I fail the Brunson test."I'm not perfect"...."SHOOT....I AM NOW A RECALCITRANT LIKE THE REAT OF YOU"

Big Tuna said...

Peace my friend, you in fact did hit the nail on the proverbial head. Dr. Vines himself told me that the works of the spirit ceased upon the connonization of scripture, The Holy Spirit/God changed his way of doing things NOT. The Holy Spirit is revealing himself to those who have an ear. Now, before you try harpooning the Tuna with baptist speak, all "Ramos" must agree/line up with the "Logos", this discussion is waaaay above my pay grade.

Anyway, I see another money maker for team Brunson....valet and reserved/assigned parking (think jagwags-of ca$h). The Tuna volunteers to head the committee for a nominal cut. Tell Stimler to call me....

Anonymous said...

Dawg:I have it word from a good source that Brunson called an invitation only meeting on Tues 11/4 of about 100 or 150 of what Team Brunson considers 'trusted lay leaders'; and Brunson rolled out the plan for the new $20 million capital program to these people to get their committment to move forward. The word is they have done this to do a bottoms-up selling of the plan, having sunday school and small group leaders help over the next months garner the support of the plan. I'm told that not all the deacons were invited, although they may have had the presentation shown to them in some prior meeting. This invitation only 'trusted lay leaders' meeting included showing of the video presentations that are now on the church website under the next generation link.

Who knows how they arrived at such a short list of people that were deemed "worthy" to meet with the pastor. The reason in my estimation for the fervent push in moving adults into small groups is that he wants us in small groups so peer pressure can be applied for this plan. The reason this plan is unveiled on the website with not one word of explanation from the pastor is he wants discussion from the bottom up, the 'selling' accomplished by the 'trusted lay leaders' - in small groups.

Back in the day our pastors shared their vision with everyone. They didn't pick out a part of the congregation and just tell them what was going on in hopes they would help sway others. The pastors stood in the platform and explained it all.

Anonymous said...

If you want to hear the "real" sermons, listen to the Lindsays, both if you can get them. They were the true Bible preachers. They had no other agenda but preaching Gods word. Unlike the poloticos that followed them.

The Lindsays were the heart and soul of FBC, because they preached the Gospel ,and it was evident they loved the Lord. The Lord was preeminent, not the preacher. Everyone that followed rode in on their coattail. Sorry but that's the truth. Take it from a looong time member who has been there.
There are volumes that could be spoken here, that would enlighten, but time, space, pro and anti forces would pop up to weigh down this blog. To be pleased with ANYTHING you hear today, from ANYONE, no matter who he thinks he is, is folly. It's like being grateful for a crumb instead of the five course banquet we had with the Lindsays, both of them.

Anonymous said...

Dr. Lindsay said about missing church services: "If you miss a service, you miss a chapter out of your lives". How true. Today if you miss a service you miss a lot of pain! You miss a chapter out of a very depressing, bad dream!

Anonymous said...

OK! ARE YOU READY FOR SOME HARDBALL?

I've spent much time trying to prepare the Church for some of the bad parts of the PURPOSE DRIVEN MOVEMENT. Most of you wished that I would go find another soap box. That is fine. I can handle the confrontation.

Now comes the small groups problem. You are now going to see, first hand, the EVIL MANIFESTATION OF THIS PROCESS.

This SMALL GROUPS method of control has been used by hindus, buddists, Marksist and other world organizations to control their people.

The idea here is to have facilitators, in our case, church leaders, the chosen few, cram this 20 million dollar satelite program down our throats.

In SMALL GROUPS,facilitators will talk up the need for spending, indebtedness, so that God's ,[Mac's], will be done.

They will make the NEED EMOTIONAL, EMPATHETIC in order to come to a UNITY OF AGREEMENT. You can imagine what will take place in the small groups.

You have been told that the PURPOSE of small groups is to promote fellowship, prepare the saints to love and serve the Lord. But you have not been told that the real PURPOSE IS TO MOLD THE PEOPLE TO DO WHAT THE PASTOR WANTS THEM TO DO. TO CONTROL THE PEOPLE.

Check out Hegelican dielectic or

WWW.crossroad.to/News/Church/Klenck2.html

Deacons, do your homework. This is not the way church should be run. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Be men of God not men of Mac. Don't just sit there, do something. Make a differnce for your Lord.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

The post on the special meeting is troubling. But I think it DOES make sense now why Mac is so gung ho on the small groups. In the back of my mind, I've been thinking this:

Why is he so dead set on small groups? And if small groups are the ultimate answer for bible application, why is he JUST NOW pushing them? For a guy to say YOU HAVE GOT TO GET THIS, in relation to small groups, it just doesn't make sense. If I were a pastor, and I thought small groups would be a great way to help my sheep grow spiritually, I would lovingly explain it, I would ASK them to TRY it. I would appeal to them on the basis of my love and care for them to trust me and just TRY the small groups for 6 months....and if it wasn't for them we could go back.

But Mac is FORCING this on us. Anytime a person tries to angrily force me to do something that I might be hesitant to do, I then have to wonder if they have my best interests in mind or THEIR OWN best interests.

I think after learning of the leadership meeting on Nov 4, I now know the answer of the why of small groups.

Wow. I've said along readers, there will be no limit to what they will do. We are the frog in the pot, and the water is being slowly warmed.

Anonymous said...

Why did Brunson replace Vines? If Vines "retired" why did he go directly to J. Hunt's church and is still preaching there?

it is written said...

Anon 12:46pm Nov.22,2008.....Thanks for the details on the PD.small groups......Dr.Dog the be nice period of the take over has passed..We are in the Guyana period and it's time to pick the flavor KOOL-AID you wish to expire upon......INSIDIOUS......HEY MAC I'VE GOT A MESSAGE FOR YA FROM GOD:::"GALATIANS 6:7"..TRY AND CHANGE THAT IN YOUR BIBLE.

Thy Peace said...

My 2c on the small groups:

After perusing the link PD Warning Anon has given, it appears (another favorite word of mine) that Pastor Mac is getting outside advice on this matter. The puzzling factor in all this is, why is this outside advice not being sound on how to handle dissent in a church (or how to stifle dissent, how to overcome dissent or how to pro-actively undercut dissent). My gut feeling is they are getting bad advice. Any industry labor relations expert will tell you that to handle opposition from the masses is to be more open, more pro-active, more listening to their concerns and appear to take their interests to heart.

Anonymous said...

So now we have an "invitation only" meeting of "trusted lay-leaders". How did the powers arrive at just who the "trusted" are? Did someone perhaps, check the "tithing" records of these "trusted" before issuing an "invitation" to meet with Mac? It looks like some "profiling" may have gone on here. Seems maybe, they are the "trust and obey group".
As to the small groups, you better believe it's all about control. Believe me if you don't play follow the leader you can be made to feel out of place fast. You have NO individuality in this arena. You didn't have much before. If you didn't agree and smile, you were labeled as a "problem". This small group just makes it easier to identify and control "problems". I truly believe if people could be made to mail in money (tithe) there would be no need to have this pretense of a church.

it is written said...

Anon 1:00pm Nov.22,2008......Dr.Vines was not as great as all of you think he was!....Continue to think about many of his decisions up until his departure.....Think what he said about the FBC congregation in defense of Pope Mac....Think about his defense or lack of rebuke concerning Gilyard(preaching at his church after retirement).hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Anonymous said...

Dawg - he says "you have GOT to get this" because that is basically what Maurilio told him. No other way to get people behind Mac on this $20 million dollar fleecing. Like the tax collectors in Jesus' day, Mac will use your long time friends and relatives to push this idea on you. He knows he has no credibility to lead this personally based on his acceptance of the $307K gift and based on his jet setting to Greece, European countries and the Holy Land as well as Gatlinburg and other preaching gigs. It is hard to get those images out of your head when he is trying to fleece you. So he will use your small group leader to do it! And those group leaders will feel so honored and special to be asked to do it by the rich, celebrity preacher that is using them shamelessly. Very sad to watch. But man, Honey likes the nice things of life and God is really blessing THEM isn't he.

Anonymous said...

Vines 40+ plus years of ministry speaks for itself. I am not going to attack him. He and Janet stayed in the same house for 24 years and drove moderately nice cars for their demographic. He used the last bit of influence he had to raise $2.5 million for the HD equipment, something that had he not done that, you can bet Mac would have let become obsolete. (like he is letting the buildings decay.) I don't think Vines had any idea how bad Mac or Gilyard were. He was a loving honest man who was just fooled, because, like us, he couldn't imagine preachers of this magnitude actually being unregenerate predators. Wolves in sheep clothing.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Off topic comment: I found it quite interesting and humorous to see those Big 3 auto execs get called out by the congressman for coming to the congress to bail their companies out, but they all took their own private planes and spent 10's of thousands of dollars to get their to beg for money.

Reminded me of Mac arrogantly asking us for $1 million in two weeks else we would go in debt - money to fix facilities problems that he and Stimler didn't put in the budget...and then just hours after passing the plate to collect the money, Mac and Stimler headed off for a European vacation.

Very similar...the requested "bailouts" in each case were due to the mis-management of the leader (Mac spent money on his school and on his TV ministry that could have fixed our facilities)...yet in their arrogance they can't see that their actions send the wrong message to the people who they are trying to fleece.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I agree with you on Vines. And get this: he didn't need to hire a church marketing firm to come up with strategies on how to raise the 2.5 million. He didn't hold a private meeting with 100 lay leaders and institute small groups to start a ground swell of support for his idea.

Like a man, he stood up and he explained it. He lovingly, strongly, convincingly, told us why the money was needed. He didn't brow beat us, didn't guilt us, he just did his dead-level best to explain it.

And he did it WITHOUT Maurilio!! Can you imagine that! He got us to give 2.5 million and we didn't have to spend 10% of that in consulting fees to raise the money. No videos were produced to tell us how great it was going to be. We didn't film testimonials of people to tell us how great the TV ministry was. There was no sales and promotion. He just used his own voice, his credibility, his love for us, and his love for the people of Jax who would be reached through the TV ministry...he used all of that to be a leader and we responded. I wasn't all that excited about it, had my doubts, but I trusted Vines. So I gave.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

About the comments on Vines and his preaching I would add this. The secret of Vines connecting with his audience is he treated them as intellectual and spiritual equals. He never presumed himself to be superior in any way to his audience. This endeared his people to him. Brunson is the opposite. Every part of his delivery - from the words to the theatrics, to the Greek, to the long mostly irrelevant historical accounts - and as it is written points out his use of you, yours, you people, makes him preaching down to the plebe. When in fact those of us that are aware of his abuses know that not only is he arrogant, but he is a hypocrite!

it is written said...

Anon 1:40pm.....Then what was the reason Vines said that there was not enough money to pastor you guys when he had just left as your pastor????...Was he defending Brunson or deriding FBC's congregation????..Or are my facts about this statement incorrect??...(And I do admire him for the good that he's done)

it is written said...

I will say this in comparision....NEITHER of those guys Vines and especially Brunson could wear even the socks of Dr.Homer Lindsay as an overall Pastor!!!!!That my opinion...

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

To clarify the Vines statement:

When he came here in Feb 2007 pastors conference, Vines was telling a story from a previous church when a deacon publicly opposed a minor raise of Vines that equated to some ridiculously small sum - and the man did it in front of Vines and Vines' wife in an ugly manner. Vines said he thought to himself at the time, "They don't pay me enough to be yo' preacha, brutha"...at which point Mac got up and hugged and high-fived Vines. This was right at the time Mac started coming under fire from the first FBC Jax blog in early 2007. It was in that sermon that Vines said he spits on and throws away anonymous mails and emails. So it was very, very obvious that Brunson had complained to Vines about how hard everyone was on Mac, and Vines came to his rescue.

Then, just a few weeks later, was when Paige Patterson, in Mac's presence at SWBTS, characterized our church as having attacked Mac from day 1, never gave him a "honeymoon", and equated his treatment at FBC Jax as us wanting to "kill him". So again, Mac complaining to his friends who were more than willing to come to the aid of poor Mac.

it is written said...

That's Pastor Dr.Homer Lindsay Jr.(I didn't get to know or meet Lindsay Sr.though I remember seeing him).

it is written said...

Thanks Dr.Dog I stand corrected....

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

The sight of those two men, both millionaires because of the generosity of FBC Jax and FBC Dallas church members, used our platform, the place we paid for having the word of God preached...they used it to high five each other as one millionare defended the other millionaire because some "recalcitrants" dared to call into question Mac's gifts he accepted, the nepotism, huge salaries, etc. It was one of the saddest moments ever at FBC Jax.

Anonymous said...

It Is Written: Amen to that. I am so glad that someone finally said something, that has his number. I have been reluctant to post anything here that preceeded Brunson, or that mirrored Brunson abuses prior to his arrival. The reverance that Watchdog has for Vines, is not the attitude that many have at FBCJ. Many know a lot. Suffice it to say that many of us view the "legacy" of Dr. Vines differently than do others.

it is written said...

Dr.Dog......I'm in ministry for the wrong reasons....Maybe I need to began to water down the Word like Joel Osteen or better yet find me a mega church like FBC Jax that will make me a millionare.....This working a secular job 40 hours a week and Pastoring God's people just out of pure love for Christ and His sheep just AIN'T GITTING IT errrrrrr GETTING IT......

Anonymous said...

FWIW, you can probably check out a boatload of Dr. Lindsay's sermons from the library there. Vines on the other hand is pretty much persona non grata. Maybe his stuff is still in the library, but I remember before I left, the bookstore/tape store had pretty much gotten rid of his stuff. Maybe it's back now but it wasn't when I was there. And he is no longer aired on the radio locally, whereas Lindsay's messages still are (or were).

And glad to see the simple solution for some is to blame the purpose driven movement for every ill of the church.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:46 I will ask you again, how many churches who use methods of the so called PD movement have you been in? Have you ever so much as been in a small group setting? How about more than one? Three? Four?

Your continual vendetta against an entire movement is getting past obsession, perhaps you should seek some help. I submit you have little to no clue of what you are talking about since as previously stated, I have been in PD churches, in small groups, and they are all still going strong. The people are happy, the churches are growing, and doing things biblically. In other words, NOTHING like you describe them.

I want to make this clear. I am neither pro nor anti PD movement. I don't care one way or the other. If a church determines strategies from this are worth taking the time to implement then so be it. I certainly do not blanketly accuse movements of being cancerous when I know things like small groups are being used in very vibrant, biblical, and happy congregations.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and Anon 12:46; since you have decided small groups are apparently not of God (you said deacons should be Men of God and now allow them, so I am drawing that conclusion) please tell me IN THE BIBLE where it expressly FORBIDS small groups.

Key word there....FORBID. Where does it say it's wrong. Please share sir.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Look, I really don't want this to digress into discussing PD.

"Small groups" in and of themselves I don't find sinister. I've been in other churches where the whole Sunday School class was a "small group" - maybe 4 or 5 of us in the class! Nothing wrong there!

But the point is: if the man is using "small groups" as a strategy to implement his policies...that is, he holds a meeting with 100 trusted lay leaders, so they can then influence people in a small group setting...that IS disingenous at best, its deceptive and lying at worst. He is telling me that small groups are aboslutely ESSENTIAL. The man told me Sunday I HAVE TO GET THIS. I have to yield to his understanding that only through small groups can we accomplish life application. When in fact, it looks like he has other motives for forcing us all into small groups.

So that is the "sinister" part of small groups as I see it..

Anonymous said...

I agree with you, IF that is the reason behind the groups. What I do not agree with is someone blanketly saying an entire movement is evil and is the cause of all these problems.

This individual was not looking at leadership, personalities, etc. it was a blanket indictment of the movement, not the people in the church who are running it.

I am not condemning the leadership either for that matter. I am just personally sick of this one poster hit squad on an entire movement that has gotten to the point where you could say "Man, it rained on my head when I crossed the street to go to the Main Auditorium" and the person would reply "ITS THE PD MOVEMENT FORCING YOU TO WALK IN THE RAIN!!"

Yes, that may be extreme. But this person or combination of people's answer for everything is it's all the PD movements fault.

it is written said...

What were Church's doing before PD came along?.... I imagine that the Apostle Paul was a failure do to the fact he didn't consult Rick Warren...People are somehow different and more complex and advance than they were in Paul's day...A very wise man once said "There is nothing new under the sun" but I guess Rick Warren didn't get the message!!!....FBC Jax prospered under Dr.Homer Lindsay Jr....But ooooooh people have changed,Lindsay's method have become archaic you just can't build a 28,000 member church on Lindsay's old outdated methods.....I purpose that people haven't changed(Rom.3:9-18)their rebels against God as they always have been!!! "FOR I AM NOT ASHAMED OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST:FOR IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION TO EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES"[ROM.1:16]......Thats how Dr.Lindsay built FBC Jax not on some new fangle mess and the people who sat under him were Biblically literate.....I will repeat Rick Warren and Bill Hybels stated that "PD HAS CREATED BIBLICALLY ILLERATE PEOPLE";...BUT I WILL SAY THIS THEY'VE GOT BIG CHURCHES......

Anonymous said...

WD: Do you remember the surveys they passed out in SS a couple of years ago? There was an entire section on one of the pages about history. Did you like it a lot, somewhat, not much, not at all. There was the intro to History, History, and more History. I assume a lot of folks said they just love History and thats why Mac loves to teach History rather than the Bible!!!

Anonymous said...

Small group setting: most men are not apt to take to small groups as they (if they have any brains at all)can see the non-importance to tell some other man how you feel about something. Most could care less. Yes, they may give lip service but being around men for over half a century I know they are more interested in Logic and reasoning. They are not emotional.

The small groups are best suited for women as they are more apt to cry on each other's shoulder and we know from what Mac said they are more spiritual don't you know.

If SS grows under this setup it could be in the female classes, but I doubt it in the men's classes. Most will subscribe to it as they do not want to be called divisive or out of touch with LEADERSHIP. What rubbish.

The SS at FBC grew out of good sound strong Bible teaching. To leave this is to turn your back on 70+ years of SUCCESS. I might add that "small groups" if anything like some women's class meetings are fertile ground for gossip. Some women are somewhat "prone" to talk too much about "things". Not a very good use of Bible time!

But change is coming.

Anonymous said...

it is Written, since you want to refer to Dr. Lindsay and FBC. Vines didn't do anything "purpose driven" either but church attendance also declined.

Again, I am NOT defending the PD movement. I am just tired of the blanket indictment of it. There are plenty of judgemental narrowminded people sitting in traditional churches today, but I don't come here and say they are all awful either. I see some contemporary churches that veer way to liberal for me and I am sure some others, but that doesn't mean I come and criticize the idea of it.

There is nothing in the bible that condemns small groups, contemporary services, traditional services, some aspects of the pd movement, etc. so on and so forth. It is in the implementation and mindset of the leadership, and the congregation that the difference is made.

Anonymous said...

You people amaze me: You don't want to discuss Purpose Driven, you don't want to discuss small groups. It's like this: The patient died but, lets not discuss what killed him.

PD and it's methods, varied as they may be ARE part of what kills churches.

As for "finding where in the Bible that it speaks against small groups". Get real the Bible is the Holy Word of God, please stop being so trivial. It also doesn't address parking lots, dining rooms,or grocery stores. Silly, silly.

Anonymous said...

No Anon 4:20 it is NOT trivial. You (or someone else) basically said it was ungodly to have small groups because Men of God needed to stand up and say no to this. If that's the case WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT? WHERE IS YOUR AUTHORITY TO SAY IT IS WRONG?

I realize the bible doesn't say anything about the other things you mentioned. Therefore, you cannot say they are wrong either because it is the IMPLEMENTATION AND USE OF THOSE ITEMS THAT DETERMINE WHETHER IT IS JUST OR SINFUL IN NATURE.

And I am still waiting on you (or another one of your anti PD counterparts) to explain where you derive this idea that the entire movement is evil, cancerous, or whatever else you want to call it when I can talk about churches that use many of those ideas and continue to find success and teach very biblical truths.

Anonymous said...

You posters who ask where does the Bible "specifically" forbid something, you sound like a child or non-believer who says "where in the Bible does it say I can't...(fill in the blank: smoke, drink, watch R-rated movies, play Nintendo games all day long, have to go to church 3X week, etc.

I would ask you. Where is blogging forbidden? Where does it say I can't question those in leadership? Where does it say if a question or comment is anonmyous, then God's man must ignore it? Where does it say a person who wished to pose questions anonymously is a coward. Grow up!

Anonymous said...

This blog is not about PD. It is about a charlatan and his greedy wife, and his consulting firms, and his lies and hypocrisy.

Even PD churches should not have pastors that abuse them like Mac has done us. In other words, Shiloh Baptist and Trinity Baptist had monsters in the pulpit. That is a bigger concern than whether they were being PD or not.

Mac is an unregenerate, unrepentant charlatan no matter whether he is PD or not. You can blog about PD, I will stick with blogging about Mac's constant abuses and shenanigans.

Anonymous said...

Do you understand the term "thick headed"? There is not time or space to reiterate all of the PD sins "again". But, if you will reread former blogs., you will see complaints re:, PD listed. Also, many web sites have been previously supplied to back up the evils of PD. Until then if you are in a PD church, be happy there, as I am sure it fits you and you fit it. We, however, who know what PD does will continue to fight against it.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Come on already...let's knock off the slaps at each other over PD.

Anonymous said...

http://www.fbcjaxblog.com/jimsmyrl/2008/11/catholic-cult-series/

Smyrl's doing an anti-Catholic series of blog posts. While I think the Catholic church preaches a false gospel, "cult" is NOT the right word.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Enough is enough. Small groups are not bad or evil in a church. My family is a small group. We can study the bible and pray. Some Sunday School classes are small groups.

This blog is not about the PD movement or about small groups.

Its the abuses of Donald M Brunson.

As the anon said above, even a liberal, PD church doesn't deserve to be abused by the likes of Brunson.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Isn't that wonderful. Smyrl is going after the Catholics.

Wake up FBC Jax. We have two amateurs at the helm of our church.

Theology Driven Ministry perhaps has cultish overtones itself. Mac and Jim will tell you what all of the correct theology is, they will create small groups to tell you what to believe and how to apply it to their lives, and they will tell our Catholic friends that they are a cult.

When it comes to "Christian" cults (oxymoron I know), but cults that use Christianity must FIRST convince their followers that other believers are wrong and only their church has the correct theology. I've seen churches take this dark turn, where instead of preaching the truth and letting the holy spirit convict of truth and righteousness, the pastors must go after all other forms of Christianity.

YOU GO JIM!!! Go after our Catholic friends! But just be sure that if we decide to host the city wide day of prayer that you keep the Catholics out, and any other "cults".

I'm sure your articles will help us in our quest to reach the city with the gospel.

Anybody know anything about Smyrl's pastorship in North Carolina? Any readers here from Cary, NC where Jim was a pastor?

Was he a legalistic and a preacher calling out the Catholics as a cult when he was up there? Or is this all new for Jim now that he is under the tutelage of Brunson?

Hey Maurilio - and you call ME a fundamentalist?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Some other thoughts on Smyrl's Catholic series:

Whether you agree with Smyrl on the Catholic church being a cult or not, you have to at least acknowledge how this is hurtful to Mac's own plan of reaching "unchurched" people through "life links". Many unchurched today have some connection to the Catholic church in their family, and many unchurched at the very least view Catholics as being interested in ministering to the poor and to the needy, unlike baptists who put much more money to the salary of the pastor and his wife and his son and their home and their land than they ever care about the poor. So to overtly go after the Catholics like Jumbo Jimbo is doing here, will only serve to make the people we are trying to reach with the truth wary of our sincerity. We can only hope for the sake of our church that Jim's little series on the Catholic Cults doesn't gain local media attention.

Its ironic how much THIS blog has caused Mac grief and how he preaches against the things this blog says...but its his own right hand man who is going to use a blog that will bring unnecessary grief to our church by trying to point out that Catholics are a cult.

So go get 'em Jim!

Anonymous said...

To all of the people who can't answer a single question I asked about where something is forbidden and instead hurl insults, point proven. Many of those things such as smoking and drinking may not be specifically mentioned in the bible, but they are IMPLIED by other things considered sins and warned against in the bible. I have yet to see where there is any implication yet regarding churches who use some of the PD methods, but if you want to continue to go this road, please do.

Theology Driven Ministry, don't know much about it but if it involves bashing Catholics and everyone else who doesn't agree with Jim Smyrl, why don't you go after that? Hey, looks like the entire pastor conference sessions involve talking about how great and wonderful the TDM is, why don't you go bother someone about that instead? In fact, hey, that's directly related to First Baptist. So why don't you discuss that? No, instead you rant, rave, and insult those who don't share your beligerent hatred for the PD movement.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you. I believe Catholic doctrine leads one to hell. But I do not believe you should start bashing those who practice that faith.

I also agree with something I believe you said earlier, that this is far different from Vines's Islam comment in 2002. Although someone said it was the truth so that is what differs. There are also some other differences as well that I will compare and contrast.

1.)Jerry Vines made these statements at a Pastor's Conference where he was invited to speak before the Southern Baptist Convention began in the next day or two after. Jim Smyrl is making these statements from a public blog that can be read by anyone.

2.)Jerry Vines, due to the setting, IMO did not make these comments true or false representing First Baptist. Yes, he was the pastor, but it wasn't an endorsed engagement if you understand what I am saying.I feel like he was there representing himself when he preached there. Smyrl's blog by looking at it appears to be in concert and association directly with First Baptist.

3.)Since there was nothing controversial as I recall it being brought up at the 2002 SBC, the media felt the need to concoct something and this was as good as anything they could come up with for sensationalism. Also, keep in mind how hypocritical the media was. They have perpetuated this line that Christians should keep their religion in church and out of the world. Well, where was Vines again when he made those comments?! I don't recall Jerry Vines asking the media to come and make a big deal over his sermon. On the other hand, Jim Smyrl is BEGGING for negative media attention with his blog commentary.

4.)Dr. Vines came back and made his statement and other than one other time a few months later, I don't think he ever addressed it again. Will Jim Smyrl be willing to make a statement defending his blog if need be? That's one we don't know the answer to yet.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon - I think you're mistaken. There is one poster here who has been trying to educate us all on the PD movement. The majority of posters here are NOT here to bash PD.

I know this blog is NOT here to go after PD.

I share your concern over TDM and the Catholic bashing of Smyrl. This is a signal, this is a sign of things to come under TDM. Excellent point too Anon, that the Pastor's Conference IS set up to show just how wonderful TDM is. If TDM is about Catholic bashing I don't think most pastors will want to hear about it.

Anonymous said...

Dog, if you really want my opinion. The fact that in every single session listed at the PC is run through the filter of TDM sounds like an indoctrination process. Are these sessions showing how things are done or are they sales pitches for this created scheme of things?

I don't know anything about TDM but the fact that EVERY SINGLE MINISTRY is run through it now makes me wonder what is missing. For all the complaints about PD, as I have said I have been in churches that have done the PD life study, churches that have adapted some of the concepts, but it doesn't take over EVERYTHING!

Not knowing anything about it I can't comment on whether it is a good thing or bad thing. TDM may be the greatest ministry program ever created. I just get concerned when it seems like the scheme is more important than the ministries themselves. And at least from looking at the seminar listings, that is what it looks like to me.

Thy Peace said...

PC2009: Seminars
Theology Driven Ministry (TDM)

What is Theology Driven Ministry? A Theology Driven Ministry is a ministry that seeks to develop godly believers. We have erased the pragmatic measurements for ministry success and formulated a biblical ministry plan that is measured by lives that glorify God.


Here are the articles posted by Jim Smyrl on his blog on TDM:
Elvis and TDM Part 1
Birth, Breast, Beast
Anselm and Theology Driven Ministry


Bible in the Voting Booth Part 1
-----------------------------------

FOUNDERS MINISTRIES BLOG: Theology Driven Ministry mp3s available

Thy Peace said...

I know one Anon on this blog commented on TDM and it's source in August.

BNNews: Sanctification examined at 2-day conf.
Sinclair Ferguson, senior pastor of First Presbyterian Church in Columbia, S.C., focused his lectures on the pastor’s role in sanctification during the Theology-Driven Ministry Conference at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C., March 26-27.

Also, Danny Aiken gave this talk at the same conference:
Akin's 8 Theological Essentials for the SBC
Dr. Danny Akin, President of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, spoke today at the "Theology Driven Ministry" conference hosted by the seminary. Other speakers include Sinclair Ferguson and Paul Tripp. Following is the handout that accompanied Dr. Akin's talk.

The eight points that he emphasizes are matters that must become the subject of serious dialogue and reflection if we hope to see spiritual health return to the SBC. One cannot read through this outline without coming away with great respect for Dr. Akin. He is both insightful and courageious to speak plainly about the problems that plague us and to call us back to submission to the teachings of God's Word. This is the kind of leadership that Southern Baptists desperately need at this time.

The issues that he raises ought to be taken to heart by every pastor and church member who longs to see Christ honored in our local churches. I look forward to hearing the audio of this message when it becomes available.

****

CAN THEOLOGICALLY DRIVEN PREACHING HELP RESCUE THE SBC?
By: Daniel L. Akin

The Conservative Resurgence gave Southern Baptist a second chance but it did not secure our future. Has there been a Resurgence? Yes. Has there been a Restoration? Doubtful. Have we experienced genuine Revival? Clearly the answer is no.

Thy Peace said...

Guess What?

BBC (Bellevue) is charging money for tickets to a church show.

" New BBC Open Forum said...
Bellevue LO♥ES Memphis so much this year they aren't giving tickets to anyone. Depending on how far from the stage or how far to the side you sit, tickets all cost $3, $6, or $12 this year.

I'll repeat what I said last year because it's still timely...

"This isn't something new to BBC. I've always said that no church should ever charge people to come to their Christmas and Easter programs. If a church can't afford the program without selling tickets, then cut back on the size of the program! It's as if all the mega churches have to one-up each other with their elaborate sets, special lighting, corny 'acting,' Broadway dancing, flying angels, live animals, tallest SCT, etc. The music usually ends up suffering with most of the emphasis being on 'the show.'"

9:23 PM, NOVEMBER 22, 2008"

Above Comment
Sorry, NewBBC permalinks are not working properly for comments. Go to the link and scroll down to the bottom to see this comment.

Anonymous said...

Thanks anon 11:12 about the heads up on the Next Generation link. Did I miss the reason for the "8" replacing the letter "G"? And the "8" is also in the background...

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

The 8 represents the "8th generation" of our church.

Very good Thy Peace. Not surprising at all.

And now that we know Mac is about sales, marking, and promotions...we can now see what he is up to with the passion play. Remember, he has said he wants to establish the Easter passion play to be a fixture, a tradition in Jacksonville. That would be a huge revenue generator! Thus, you can expect in the next year or so we too will charge admission!

Maurilio: get busy please and come up with a pricing plan to segment our market so we can maximize revenue. And please look at selling promotions...we can put adds up on the Imags as people come in waiting for the program o begin.

Anonymous said...

The emotion and crying this am on TV was unbelievable. One question. How can a person get so emotional about something that happened 3000 years ago to people who he does not know and yet not release one tear on those that no longer attend the church they loved and are no longer welcome? Hard to believe tears are shed for those long ago while tearing down those all around him.

Anonymous said...

May I ask why people who left are no longer welcome? If I were to go back I think I would be welcomed like I never left.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Mac can't help but keep trying to defend himself, making the sermons about him.

He said that people think that he has a great life, living with no problems, "living the high life" as he said, then decided to tell us about Deb's car accident, and when Will's transmission fell out of the car and there was a period of time that Mac thought his son was dead. Good stories, but the point was for him to tell us how full of faith and trust he is.

But no one thinks Mac is immune from the regular heart aches and tribulations of life. Its just that we KNOW he has enriched himself and his family by taking a huge salary, and accepting a large land gift from one of our donors. Of course Mac won't address that.

Tuition rates for the Academy are now available, as is another promo video for the school.

And Mac's preaching on slander and deceit and malice and hypocrisy rings HOLLOW to his congregation. Mac has done it all in his first 2 1/2 years. He slanders from his pulpit, he shows malice towards us in how he talks about us and talks down to us...he is a hypocrite.

He also defended his angry, vindictive preaching style by saying he would be "no good to us" if he just came and smiled and patted us on the heads and said everything is OK. The man has no capacity to understand what he is doing...he is an angry man in the pulpit, and doesn't know how to be humble or loving.

But the people love it. They are enthralled during each episode of the Mac Brunson show.

Anonymous said...

Mac is a SHOWMAN. Its that simple. People like show business. Another thing, they are too lazy to read up on the mushrooms in Washington state, the trade winds in the Med, and the Roman legions and just eat it up, laugh, and applaud these historics. Pitiful, pitiful. And the beat goes on.