There have been several local news reports in print and TV media about the lawsuit. You can see those links at the "Media Coverage Links" in the column to the right. Thanks to http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/ and to our friend "Thy Peace" for establishing and maintaining that list.
Since the story broke in the local news earlier in April, and more recently since the lawsuit was filed, many people have called and emailed us to ask us what were the grievances that started this blog, and how did this ever end up at this stage, in litigation.
For answers to these questions, I would refer readers to the previous posts on this blog:
The Story of the Watchdog - April 8, 2009
The Search for the Watchdog's Identity - March 19, 2009
The blog remains open for discussion of these issues.
And as always, anonymous speech is welcomed.
216 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 216 of 216WD,
And the church said...
AMEN!
"As I said, people all over the country commenting on this story bring up the pastor's salary. This is interesting. Large compensation packages of mega church pastors is something that offends many non-Christians, it is a stumbling block. You see, this is why there is no transparency in these mega churches when it comes to matters of pastor compensation and gifts. If it were a matter of public record how much these pastors were paid in total - I'm talking salary & benefits, the tax-free allowances, the outside renumeration from their 501(c)3's and book deals and speaking fees and direct gifts from their followers, it would offend people inside and outside the church, and giving would suffer - so they must not, at any cost, be transparent with pastor compensation numbers."
Yes, it is a stumbling block. Many can argue that it should not be that it is no one's business. But this is even addressed in the NT where Paul defends himself that he did not use their offerings so as not to be a burden.
There is very good reason that mega churches keep such information secret. Even though there are many in the church who think the salaries are fine. They know it is a huge stumbling block to recruiting members. For this reason many drive Honda's yet live in very nice homes. And preach on having no debt even though a group of well heeled men paid 20-40% of the cost of their home. (This happens all the time)and take free vacations. It is much easier for them to have no debt when they have so many lifestyle freebies. They conveniently leave this out when preaching to others. Perhaps they forget how hard it is for some who have average incomes.
(I know one mega church pastor's wife who is given free clothes and accessories to wear because it is advertisement for those shops. If **** shops there, then many other women will, too. It works)
Richard makes the reality of the situation clear in this sentence:
"The church can hire him for whatever they want. Just like any other business."
Just like any other business? That is exactly what the Body of Christ has come to and how it is viewed by many involved. Another organization. A business with tax exemptions.
There is a cognative dissonance in this thinking as Richard's comment shows us. There is much more at stake here than whether the laws of the land were broken.
Richard, you can't have it both ways. Mac is violating 1 Tim 3 and needs to resign for the sake of the Body.
Matt
Matt: You are right on target as usual. The problem centers around a lot of members who say, well my mom and dad attended this church for years. Others say, well thats where all my friends attend. Then others will say, I want my funeral held in that place. How pathetic is this. Just about as crazy as it gets. If the preacher cannot preach spiritually then the church needs to find another pastor. One, I might say that doesn't bring embarrassment on the church. A truly saved person can tell if the power of the Lord is upon the preacher and in his sermon.
What a man sows that shall he also reap. A lot of bad sowing and reaping going on in the name of religion. Thats the main reason the church has lost its power. The leaders have and are relying on themselves rather than God and the Holy Spirit for the power to get things accomplished according to God's will and not that of themselves... Thats why they fail everytime. Then they move on to another city, try to forget, and start the cycle all over again. Pitiful, and it will only get worse. End of days is nearer than most realize.
Would these preachers go to a small church if "God Called" and take what many of these small pastors receive? -
No Way! Guaranteed!
This is not your daddies church Mafia Boy lovers - Many are now Standing up for Jesus and his (Christ) Kingdom
Change, Repent or be Exposed - the new motto for us the true believers!
Truth said 9:06 PM: I like your style. Dr. Lindsay Sr., was fond of saying "Try the spirits". We've made it too easy for them.
Richard - the blog was not about his salary. It was about him and his staff and deacons calling anyone who asked any questions or voiced any concerns as "attacking the pastor" or being "divisive" and asking them to leave. The nepotism, the Pastor's guidebook telling preachers not to accept large gifts after he had just accepted one, the playing of the commercial for Collins Builders during a Sunday morning service after J.D. Collins gave him the personal land gift, the changing of the by-laws, and his continued arrogance and sheep beating, were the key discussions on the blog. They try to make it about the salary only because, I agree, that is really a weak reason to be blogging in and of itself.
Plain and simple, the man no longer has the credibility or integrity to lead FBC Jax. He has been exposed as a Charlatan in my opinion. Calling Mr. Rich a sociopath, and the hiring of Maurilio Amorim, are two other concerns. So please RichardM, don't let them tell you it is about his salary. We know it is huge, but we don't care, he may deserve it. But with all the other abuses, the man has brought on a storm of controversy and divided this once great church.
He is still angry and bitter and it is all about him. Check out last week's infamous "HA!" he spits out after telling his congregation about attendance at the South Campus. God may get the last laugh on this arrogant, pompous ass.
VOR
VOR - I did see the video from last week, and I was absolutely shocked to see Mac use the attendance at the South Campus, as compared to attendance at the downtown campus, as an opportunity to belittle his critics and say an arrogant "HAH" at the end, as if to say: "I TOLD YOU SO". If you haven't seen it, it is a must see.
When I see that, it makes me feel sorry for the people of FBC Jacksonville, that a pastor would choose to say something like that to his sheep. He could have congratulated the people at the south campus for their hard work, or for those at the downtown campus who worked hard to raise their attendance. But no, Mac made it about him being right, and his critics wrong.
Quite amazing when one reads his own Pastor's Guidebook:
"It is unethical to use the pulpit to attack those who disagree with the way you are leading the church, even if you do not use their names. The president of the United States is said to have a "bully pulpit". The pastor should remember the implications of servant leadership and refuse to become a bully in the pulpit. The pulpit is where the Bible should be preached and where the people of God should be encouraged; it is not a place where attacks are launched against others." "The New Guidebook for Pastors, by Bryant and Brunson", page 186
The consciences of the congregations have been "vexed and flegged" by such mutilators of Malachi tithing doctrines.
I didn't see Richard taking sides or wanting it both ways. I saw him present both sides of the issue, which I took as wisdom. I'd love to hear from a lot more 'formers'.
I guess it's like when you ask your spouse on the way home from church what they got out of the sermon, and they talk as if they weren't even at the same church as you. Didn't you always wish they had heard the same sermon you heard? LOL
Happy Mother's Day Yvette!
Mac said this morning that he never seen a Church go belly up doing missions. And he never met a person that went broke giveing tithes. Well i would be glad to meet him but he will not respond to my emails.
Mac said this morning that he never seen a Church go belly up doing missions. And he never met a person that went broke giveing tithes. Well i would be glad to meet him but he will not respond to my emails.
May 10, 2009 10:53 AM
He sounds like Ken Copeland.
"I didn't see Richard taking sides or wanting it both ways. I saw him present both sides of the issue, which I took as wisdom."
Sitting on a fence is wise? I can see both sides, too. And one is accountable due to his position.
Actually what Richard was asking us to do is to forget Mac's behavior and teaching and focus only on the law. But we answer to a Higher Law.
I guess you decided to leave out that Mac talked about how excited he was of the number of people that have gotten saved at the South Campus already. But of course you would, to make yourself look better.
First of all, what article or amendment in the US constitution guarantees the right of privacy or anonymity in free speech? You have the right to free speech and I have the right to know who is saying it.
I, you, Dr. Brunson, the JSO and every other citizen in this nation has a duty and responsiblility when it comes to public safety. That, sir, is your downfall. You crossed the line from a private matter into a public concern. Let's see if you are worth your word and post this anonymously.
Can you point out what article or amendment gives you the right to know who is saying something? So anonymous posters here, you have the right to find out who they are, even if you find it offensive, or if they are unreasonable? How would go about exercising that right, if you actually have it?
I will gladly post your comment, I don't mind at all. In fact I responded in the old thread you posted in, and I'm posting it here also.
Maybe you're right, but I don't think so.
Do a bit more research on anonymous speech and you might be surprised. And also, don't forget to look at "establishment clause" of the first amendment.
Here's a few links to help you get started in your research:
http://www.eff.org/cases/manalapan-v-moskovitzand
http://www.eff.org/issues/anonymity
Listen here "WD", you are a coward. Why don't you just come out and say how you feel instead of using the cloak of a blog site. You sicken me. I'm glad you got exposed. I don't even go to a church, but seeing you revealed for the coward you are made my day. And good luck with the lawsuit hahahahahahahahahaha we'll see if that one goes through hahahahahaha what a tool
Post a Comment