"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full." Jesus Christ, as recorded in Matthew's Gospel, 6:5Clay Yarborough, FBC Jax member, Jacksonville City Councilman, and the new council "Chaplain", has selected his pastor Mac Brunson to be the first minister to say a prayer at the City Council under new council president Jack Webb's rotating-faith-prayer policy.
That is fine and dandy, one would expect Yarborough to select the high-profile Brunson for such an honor, since he is a member of his church.
But Brunson apparently is going to use this opportunity given to him not just to pray, but another chance to flex the FBC Jax political muscle by having his church members actually show up en masse in the council chamber just for the prayer.
During the Sunday July 18th evening service at First Baptist Jacksonville, Mac Brunson announced to the faithful that he is the man selected to pray at the July 27th City Council meeting.
But then he made an unusal request: he asked the entire congregation present to show up at the City Council chamber, to silently walk into the chamber for his prayer, be present to hear his wonderful prayer in Jesus' name, then silently walk out. The purpose he says, is to send a message to the city that "this is a city of prayer."
Then, Mac says he doesn't want it known that his church is showing up!! He says the church would edit the sermon to delete this announcement for broadcast. But the Watchdog did catch wind of it, so we'll put it up here on the blog for others to read about it and comment.
Maybe Mac should just humbly show up, not let anyone know he is coming, and certainly not attempt to make a spectical by calling for all of his church members to come. Just pray in Jesus name for our city and our leaders. Pray for the financial shortfall our city faces and the need for sound fiscal policy in city government.
Then quietly leave and let the City Council do their job.
82 comments:
Am I the only one, but are people really this ignorant to not see right through this mans personal agenda goals.
Do they not read the words in the bible EVER...
Humble....hmmmm. I guess this is GREEK to MAC and his Baptist buddies.
They like to stage shows, don't they.
The Hall is small so won't take many to fill up to appear like it's a full house. I'm sure his staff have been mandated as well as his deacons to attend. This is about MAC BRUNSON, not Jesus.
Mac care about this City - don't think so, he's only a part time resident as he's gone more than here. He was chosen to be on the City Crime Committee and only showed up for one meeting per newspaper attendance report.
Don Redman has already made a fool out of himself at one of the council meetings , now the first assignment Clay has is to invite his personal minister to hear how Mac ends his prayer in Jesus name.
Way to go Chaplain Clay!
There's a big "tado" in NC that's similar to this. I guess fundamentalist churches LOVE their big preacher personalities and are not embarrassed by them running around taking stands and looking petty and ridiculous to outsiders-and probably some insiders.
Someone said it's not about Jesus-it's about the preacher himself. AMEN! That is the truth for sure.
"(5)But all their works they do for to be "SEEN" by men:they broaden their phylacteries,and enlarge the borders of their garments,(6)And "LOVE" the uppermost rooms at feasts,and the chief seats in the synagogues,(7)And "greetings" in the markets,and to "CALLED BY MEN",Rabbi(Rev),Rabbi(Rev)":(11)But he that is greatest among you will be your "SERVANT".(12)And whoever will exalt himself will be abased;and he that will humble himself will be exalted.(14)Woe unto you,Scribes and Pharisees(Pastors),hypocrites!for you devour widows'houses,and for a "PRETENCE MAKE LONG PRAYER;Therefore you will receive the greater damnation.
"Worse and Worse"[2Tim 3:13]!!!
Mac Brunson has a mouth that is as big as he is.
It was wrong for him to make a public plea to members to flood the City Council to hear HIS prayer.
I plan to write a letter to the new President jack Webb and the other City Council members. There are a lot of Pastor's in this city that have a great reputation with a concern for the community - the Chaplain made a poor judgment call with inviting his personal pastor to pray to make a point.
So right, it's not about JESUS, it's about the preacher stirring up more trouble like Councilmen Redman recently did.
What a joke, telling the congregation he's not announcing what he plans to do on TV, but the congregation then walk out the door and begin spreading the word. This just opens the door to more fire.
That's a first baptist dallas photo. Interesting.
This makes me furious at Clay Yarborough.
Mac Brunson praying to City Councilmen when he banns an innocent woman from coming onto downtown church property. This is not a man of forgiveness, compassion, forgiving your brother as he preaches on public TV - he's a hypocrite and Yarborough has the nerve to give him a stage to preach Jesus.
If he really cared about the City of Jacksonville he wouldn't have moved his programs to the rich communities of Ponte Vedra and Nocatee where the money people are.
Yeah Mac, - while you are at City Hall how about being a real man of God and go remove the restrictions on Mrs. Rich.
BTW/I do not know the Rich family - I'm just a believer who knows how wrong this family was treated by Brunson.
"Those who demand an audience for public displays of piety are treating their faith as superstition."
I have a guess what Mac has up his sleeve. He's going to request a bill from the County Tax Assessor for FBC real estate and holdings.
THEN he'll make a name for himself.
LA
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The guy in the choir robe with gray hair sitting behind Brunson is either
(1). Bored out of his gored, or
(2). Grimacing for "an impending explosion between the legs" (Webster's official definition for "fart" - seriously, look it up), or
(3). Is halfway into his imitation--right arm raised, left arm rising--of his pastor's imitation of the California Condor
Either way, the photograph serves as a reminder for why the choir should exit the loft before the message.
Well, well, well! Another way to make front page headlines.
Wonder if Mike Hogan, tax collector, (running for mayor), Jerry Holland, election supervisor, Jim Fuller, former city council member Ginger Soud & Judge Soud and so many more of the members of FBC and members of FBC will be sitting in the front row at the Council Meeting to hear Mac's "In Jesus Name" prayer ending.
As our brother says: Worse & Worse!
This is a clear example of the Baptist Mafia at work. What better show of force than to have a thousand people show up to pray alongside Mac Brunson. The message is clear: "look how many voters you will be answering to if you do anything Mac doesn't like. If mac can get this many to show up just for a prayer, imagine how many he can have show up for something he doesn't like. You want to keep your position, you better keep mac happy."
And really, this shows the city FBC Jax cares about prayer? I don't think so. Praying for the city, and putting action to those prayers, shows the city, not turning out to support a man praying.
Besides, I thought the council was concerned about prayer being disruptive. How much more disruptive can you get than picking Mac Brunson and his asking thousands of people to show up, and not even wanting the word to get out that he is asking them to come. Should the Jews and Muslims do the same when their leaders are chosen? And if not many show up, does the message get sent that majority rules on religious freedoms?
And don't we have several FBC JAX members on the council already? The church's influence is already very well documented. Yarborough and Redman type guys are the reason our founding fathers wanted a separation from church and state. Mac knows baptist history. State involvement in religious matters is what early baptists were fighting against.
And how convenient for mac and inconvenient for his "followers"...he can simply walk across the street to pray. The members who come have to drive from work or home, park, and stand outside in the rotunda most likely, just to make him feel good.
Yes, mac is sending a message to the city all right. Just like he did when he had member Detective Hinson, get subpoena's to out the blogger. The message is...don't you dare criticize or upset the Brunsons or you will have to face the city powers. message received mac. By everyone except the WD.
I propose that no one go pray with this grandstander and send HIM a message.
Would it be okay to have all Catholics on the council, answering to their church leaders?
Would it be okay if we had all Muslims on the council?
Would it be okay if we had all FBC Jax members? What about 1 member? 2 members? 3 members? 4 members? How many would be too many before the citizens realized the possibility of a huge conflict of interest and violation of the establishment clause?
Great idea, Clay. Bring Millionaire Mac from across the street to show how you are reaching out to other faiths. Nice.
SHOWTIME!!!!!!
GREAT COMMENT's 4:29 and 4:35
"How much more disruptive can you get than picking Mac Brunson and his asking thousands of people to show up, and not even wanting the word to get out that he is asking them to come."
"Great idea, Clay. Bring Millionaire Mac from across the street to show how you are reaching out to other faiths. Nice."
==============================
Reminder Folks,
Shhhh, don't let the public know Mac's plan to tell the council members what this City is all about.
I will tell you what a judge friend asked me a few years back about the Christians who were packing his courtroom when porno business violations were being heard.
He asked my why they would do this but then turn around and come in to give character witness and ask for leniency to the preacher who gets convicted of molesting a kid.
I wonder how many unbelievers in that chamber, when Mac prays, know about him using the civil authorities to try and shut someone up?
Do you only post remarks that don't challenge your information? Or was your blog "broken" earlier when I pointed out that Caner did apologize to a crowd at Liberty months ago and he's been under a gag order by Liberty?
Any prayer that is promoted as a "ya'll come on to the City Council meeting and hear me pray" event cannot be "a prayer in Jesus' name," no matter what Mac says or does at the end of it. No matter how well formed or how eloquent the words; no matter how passionate his plea, "Bubba Mac's" prayer will simply be a collection of words that tickle the ears of a few local politicians and onlookers; then fall back from the ceiling as though never spoken. Almighty God, creator and sustainer of the universe, One with Jesus and the Holy Spirit, will not be manipulated by this political charade. I suspect God will be more closely tuned to the simple prayers of simple people, prayed in the manner Jesus taught His disciples to pray. The prayer he taught did not create divisions, it did not breed contempt and it certainly did not end with the words "in Jesus' name...." A prayer prayed in "Jesus' name" is one that affirms the values and spirit of Jesus, not a prayer offered in a "we'll show them whose boss" spirit, with His name tacked on to the end. Actually, that like more like taking the Lord's name in vain (using the name of God lightly).
I can't stand this city.
What was the content of the supposed apology at Liberty several months ago? Did he express genuine repentance or was it more of the "I'm sorry for any unintentional misstatements" stuff?
Regardless, many of Caner's lies from the decade of deceit were made before the public. When the sin is public, the apology and repentance also needs to be public. A private apology before a few people at Liberty doesn't cut it.
The supposed gag order is a red herring. If Caner were truly repentant, he would apologize publicly notwithstanding any gag order that Liberty has imposed on him. If repenting publicly costs him his job, then so be it. If his character truly mattered more to him than his job, then he would repent publicly of his public sin regardless of what anyone at Liberty told him to do.
Finally, while I know that many will not agree, I am of the opinion that genuine repentance requires one to make restitution wherever possible. Zaccheus did this. When a supposed "apology" and "repentance" is not accompanied by efforts to make restitution, then it usually indicates that the "repentance" is not genuine. Caner should pay back, with interest, all of the money he has received as a result of his deception. This would include honoraria and book advances and royalties. It would also include any salary he has received from Liberty in excess of the salary he made at his old job. After all, it was only his notoriety as a former jihadist that caused him to even be on Liberty's radar when they were looking for a seminary president. Without the embellished testimony, Caner never would have landed the lucrative position at Liberty in the first place.
What a classless redneck. He does more harm than good when he makes a big show to promote himself.
Sadly, many will be shallow enough to believe they are in some way furthering the cause of Christ by doing what Mac asks them to do.
Mac is so full of himself, so delusional, and is such an embarrassment. He causes his weaker brother to stumble but never gives that a thought.
Sheesh. Disgusting. This is exactly as another poster pointed out - an attempt by Mac to show his power.
FBCJ members - this guy is a pox on you all. Please get another pastor before Mac totally destroys what little good is left of your church's name. Better yet, vote with your feet. That big church down there in no way resembles what happened in the first few chapters of Acts. Go back and read those chapters again, and then think about your church as it is. It is nothing at all like that dynamic, authentic, vibrant church in Acts.
It is a great big whited sepulchre.
Anon 4:35-
You ask:
"Would it be okay to have all Catholics on the council, answering to their church leaders?
Would it be okay if we had all Muslims on the council?"
There is just one problem with your question(s). As Believers we have the truth, Muslims and many Catholics do not (at the risk of sounding like Smyrl).
So as believers with the truth of course we want to spread the truth.
Now do we go and do it Dr. Brunson's way? That is an issue to discuss.
I just don't get it. When a pastor has to commercialize an upcoming prayer it loses all meaning, at least for me, and it appears, also to a lot of others. We need to hear from some other pastors within the city that are not so closely tied to First Baptist Church especially at this time. Maybe three or four years from now would have been more appropriate, but not so close to some recent statements which brought forth a lot of anguish, notieriety, and hard feelings that were so apparent. I just don't get it. Maybe the council should vote on who is holding prayers at the hall in the future or draw straws for speakers which actually may be more sensitive and fair. Just my thoughts. It just seems to be more of a foot in the tar bucket. And, yes I am a Christian and do not desire to be part of another example of bad taste.
Angry Anon 5:39 pm.
I did post your comment. You must be new to blogging. You need to go look in the thread in which you posted the comment to find it.
This is the wrong one.
Or was your blog "broken" earlier when I pointed out that Caner did apologize to a crowd at Liberty months ago and he's been under a gag order by Liberty?
You mean this one?
Anonymous said...
For one who seems so interested in the truth, you take a lot of liberties in the truth and let falsehoods permeate your blog. You know the truth and that is that Caner confessed before an assembly at Liberty months ago. You also know that Liberty has placed a gag order on him talking about any of this at all. He can neither "confess" anything or defend himself. You know the routine. So who is being honest now? You harm the Kingdom.
July 19, 2010 4:10 PM
Awww, man, don't you feel silly now? More importantly, how do we know Caner is under a gag order? We certainly haven't heard about that "confession" you refer to.
With that, I am...
LOL!
Oh, and FYI, it's Caner himself who has "harmed the Kingdom" with his serial lying for the past decade and his refusal to acknowledge his lies or repent.
I can also attest to the fact that Blogger has been extremely testy the past few weeks, so if WD tells you there's a problem, believe him.
If you will remember CORRECTLY Watchdog, Mac did not say on Sunday "Y'all come here me pray" - instead he encouraged those who could, to come and support prayer and be a part of prayer in the name of Christ at City Council.
That is a HUGE difference, but it doesn't sound as sensational on your blog. I plan on being at city council, to be silent (Mac asked that we wouldn't be a distraction) and then leave after the prayer. I personally think it is a great picture of the number of Christians in Jax who really care about the spiritual condition of the city.
I know I am in the minority on this blog, but I am actually very ok with that!
Bill
Bill, you are following a man. Christians don't have to exploit their position with Christ and hold it over lost people!!! Let your light shine not put it in the limelight. Unfortunately, others, especially lost people and those of other faiths know exactly what is going on here and they will not like it. That is what gives Christians a bad name. Sort of like the hard right if you know what I mean. Pray about being there in the first place. What is the reason you are really there. Its about the business of the City rather than a place to hold a prayer meeting. Thats why we have separation of church and state to begin with not make others feel unwelcomed. Paul preached that he could be all things to all people. Christianity is not inclusive. The prayer of one man at the city council is not going to start a REVIVAL....IF there is a revival it needs to start in the church and then travel through the halls of the government.
I remember Jesus before Herod and Pilate never said a prayer. He was God yet he did not draw attention to who HE WAS. Still bad taste and more of it.Additionally, do you not think half (maybe) of the church showing up in city hall will not be a distraction? It certainly will be an "in your face" situation.
I have a simple theological question. How many people do you need to have actually present from FBC Jax for the prayer of Brunson to be effective? 5? 10? 100?
What would be the difference between having 1000 people jam a little conference room as opposed to meeting at the church to pray for the city and for the witness to FBC Jax in the city?
Would God hear the people present in the council room more than the people back at the church?
What do you thing would be more effective? !000 people jamming a prayer or 1000 people offering to clean up a littered street?
Bill,
Your comments:
"I plan on being at city council, to be silent (Mac asked that we wouldn't be a distraction) and then leave after the prayer. I personally think it is a great picture of the number of Christians in Jax who really care about the spiritual condition of the city."
The sad part is that people like you have no interest
in actually going to any City Council meeting to
hear the needs of this city - downtown residents know that First Baptist has been a "no show" on doing anything for the downtown.
Believe me, showing up for this a one time meeting to listen to a man's prayer and then walking out is not only rude but is a poor testimony - why not stay and listen to some of the problems this city really faces.
To do what Mac Brunson suggest does nothing but show disrespect to our community and is rude and foolish on the part of all of you from First Baptist Church who come to stand by your man, not Jesus!
Bill - so you and other FBCJ members are going to create a "picture of the number of Christians in Jax who really care about the spiritual condition of the city."
I don't think showing up for a 2 minute prayer by your pastor and then leaving tells anyone that you care about the spiritual condition of Jacksonville.
If many people from FBCJ obey their pastor and show up, it very well could be a distraction to the business of the city.
If the city council thinks that each person invited to pray is going to use it to make a statement by asking all of their followers to show up and get screened through security and stand in the chamber, then get up and leave AFTER the prayer, perhaps they'll just can the whole idea of prayer at the council.
Just be honest: you and Brunson are trying to send a message to the ACLU and the city council that you prefer a Christian prayer at the beginning of the council meeting. You have a right to do that - but just be honest as to why you are going.
And if your church obeys their pastor's request, and several hundered of you show up, that WILL be a distraction when 100's of people who have no business with the city, show up and get screened through security, file in for a prayer, then get up and leave. That is a distraction.
Just let your pastor go and pray, pray for our city at your house or in your church - you don't have to drive downtown and park and walk into the city council chamber to pray for our city and our council.
But if you are trying to send a message to the ACLU and the city council, then go ahead and do it.
Bill - maybe while Mac is praying, it would be good for the FBCJ faithful to fall prostrate on the floor, with your noses to the ground, like shown in this picture of Mac praying at the Southern Baptist Convention in June. Maybe Clay Y and Don R could be like these two men, and fall prostrate behind Mac while he prays.
I sure wasn't expecting agreement from this blogging bunch. Believe me, I knew it would be met with cynacism and skewed scripture - but I just wanted to let you know that I would be there to pray and what you reported Watchdog on your blog was not accurate.
I've said my peace, now on to other things. I appreciate Mac's desire to have others there, you don't, and that is where we differ.
Have a great week Watchdog with your family.
Bill
Hey Tom,
Give me/us Jeff Brumley's email address. I'm all about busting up this game.
"I knew it would be met with cynacism and skewed scripture"
Perhaps it would be instructive for us all if you were specific about the "skewed scripture" reference. That is what Biblical correction is all about. Please be specific so we can learn.
Bill - I just think that a showing of hundreds of people for Mac Brunson's prayer will be counter-productive. It shows the city council that you and FBCJ are willing to use the privilege of saying prayer before a city council - and that's what it is, a PRIVILEGE they have granted to your pastor - as a means of trying to make a larger statement ABOUT prayer, rather than just coming TO pray. I think that is the wrong tact and makes all of us Christians look bad.
But as I said, GO FOR IT! It is your right to attend the city council meeting to pray with your pastor.
Anon 10:50
On behalf of the Watchdog I will give you the answer to your request:
jeff.brumley@jacksonville.com
..."be a part of prayer in the name of Christ at City Council."
If that is the main thrust of Mac's matinee showing, to witness a prayer "in the name of Christ", then Mac is just as crude as Redman's interrogation previously in the city council meeting.
Whoever is asked to open with prayer is allowed (Thank God.) to pray in whatever manner they believe.
For Mac to directly associate this performance with that of Redman's is just getting more and more disgusting. And Mac hasn't even thought of that association? Or he approves of it?
Thanks 11:03.
I'm on it.
Hopefully, the prayer will:
Ask for God's mercy on us as a nation while we neglect the unborn
Ask God to forgive us for becoming a nation that calls good evil and evil good
Beg of God's mercy for taking him for granted
Ask that God would be merciful to those officials in authority and that they would forsake the visious attacks upon the Character and Word of God
Ask that God would grant to elected officials wisdom in spite of their evil hearts and that he would rule and reign in their hearts works of righteousness and goodness despite their evil
Thats a good start I would think?
Believe me, showing up for this a one time meeting to listen to a man's prayer and then walking out is not only rude but is a poor testimony - why not stay and listen to some of the problems this city really faces.
To do what Mac Brunson suggest does nothing but show disrespect to our community and is rude and foolish on the part of all of you from First Baptist Church who come to stand by your man, not Jesus!
This. How rude!
I agree Jeff Brumley needs to run with this one, preferably on the front page of the paper next Sunday morning.
On the other hand, it will be interesting if several hundred of the MacFaithful show up and walk out after Mac's prayer which, if it's anything like his flowery written prayer at the SBC, should be a real show-stopper. Let them make a scene and show their true colors. They'll send a message all right, but it won't be the one they want.
Once this goes through then every other religious and non/religious group will have to be invited along with their crowds. There will be no end to this. And what does it prove. Some see it as Christians being mean spirited. "Religion" practiced in the "flesh" accomplishes nothing for the Lord. How disappointing.
Ask for God's mercy on us as a nation while we neglect the unborn
Ask God to forgive us for becoming a nation that calls good evil and evil good
Beg of God's mercy for taking him for granted
Ask that God would be merciful to those officials in authority and that they would forsake the visious attacks upon the Character and Word of God
Ask that God would grant to elected officials wisdom in spite of their evil hearts and that he would rule and reign in their hearts works of righteousness and goodness despite their evil
Thats a good start I would think?
July 20, 2010 11:29 AM
"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, "God, I thank You that I am not like other men-extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess." And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, "God, be merciful to me a sinner!" I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted (Luke 18:11-14)."
"You who hate good and love evil; Who strip the skin from My people, And the flesh from their bones; Who also eat the flesh of My people, Flay their skin from them, Break their bones, And chop them in pieces, Like meat for the pot, Like flesh in the caldron. Then they will cry to the Lord, But He will not hear them; He will even hide His face from them at that time, Because they have been evil in their deeds (Micah 3:2-4).
I would be fearful if I were Mac of this public display. God is not mocked.
Redneck is the word that came to my mind too. As in "We'll show those Muslims who we are and not to cross us." Not "we'll show those muslims that Christians are about love". What an embarassment.
"Religion" practiced in the "flesh" accomplishes nothing for the Lord.
July 20, 2010 12:09 PM
This statement, in few words, says it all.
Many people see FBCJ as being full of and run by arrogant snobs. Maybe that is why they have so many "former" members that have left. People just roll their eyes, take a deep breath and say "Here they go again". Some may ask the question, "Who do they think they are". This is not a good move on the churches part. Questionable leadership by this pastor....again. I like the comment above that asks the question.... "how many members will it take to make this prayer effective". "And why go to the council hall rather than actually getting serious about praying for this city in the church". I think it's all about being seen and taking over the spotlight for attention. Pray in church...what's the problem with that. This church has had plenty of opportunities to become interested in the city and helping the residents. But no action. Question" Do they have church visitation any longer? So now they show up to pray and LEAVE!!!! Brilliant!!!!NOT!!!
I think it speaks loud and clear if you are a member of FBC Jax, find out what they are all about, and then STAY in the church anyways. I can't say I really understand that.
You don't just show up somewhere, pray, then leave. That does nothing.
If you want to be effective as a Christian, if you're going to show up somewhere and pray, then stay and become the blessing that Christ expects us to be to those around us.
Don't pray that the hungry will have food when your own pantry is full. Make a meal and be the blessing.
FBC Jax ought to be the blessing and take steps to help out the City of Jacksonville and not have to have their brand all over everything that they're doing.
I would take my own pastor to task if he were to do something like this. And yes, he and I have been on different sides of local issues concerning alcohol in a dry Louisiana parish. I've asked him why he'll work to get the congregation all worked up to take a stand against alcohol in restaurants while we can't get ten people together to do handyman work for the needy and elderly of the church. Besides, I've also asked him why he has no problem going to restaurants that serve alcohol located in other towns and nearby cities.
I've yet to get a reply to this question.
Maybe A.C. Soud and the trustees can draft the prayer for Mac to read? Didn't they draft the letter to the WD accusing him of 16 sins and didn't they draft that beautiful Christ-like deacon's resolution?
I am sure Mac will talk to the Creator God, with his eyes closed and his voice raised, in an agressive and confident manner. Be sure to use the microphone so God can hear your prayer. Will he be speaking to Almight Holy God, or will he be merely speaking to the men in the chamber?
Go and watch and listen. Is this how a sinful man speaks to God?
Sheesh!
This also from another blog post:
For one who seems so interested in the truth, you take a lot of liberties in the truth and let falsehoods permeate your blog. You know the truth and that is that Caner confessed before an assembly at Liberty months ago. You also know that Liberty has placed a gag order on him talking about any of this at all. He can neither "confess" anything or defend himself. You know the routine. So who is being honest now? You harm the Kingdom.
July 19, 2010 4:10 PM
___________________________________
How do we know your post is not also full of falsehoods. How would WD "know" any of the above? What proof do YOU have that any of it is true? Perhaps you are spreading falsehoods and harming the kingdom? Who are you and how do know such things. I don't believe you. You are spreading falsehoods and harming the kingdom.
I think you guys are being really hard on Mac. There are things to be hard on him about but I am not sure this is one of them. He's really not THAT bad. Besides, look how many people followed him from FBC Dallas.
Can't help but wonder how Parvez Ahmed, a Muslim who was recently appointed by the City Council is going to feel about Chaplain Clay Yarbough, member of First Baptist asking his very own personal pastor to represent the Council in prayer. He's as foolish as the former Chaplain.
Ironically, this newest appointee to the commission fell under scrutiny that bordered on religious discrimination. Ahmed, a UNF finance professor and national pudit on the American Muslim experience was approved, but only after weeks of controversy that included accusations of terrorist ties and a request by non other than DON REDMAN, Council Chaplain. also a member of First Baptist,
asking him to "say a prayer to your God" (Ahmed refused and REDMAN later apologized.
Also wondering if Jim Smyrl (excuse me, it's now DR. SMYRL) is going to be there to pray along with Mac since he's an expert in the field of the religion of Muslims & Catholics.
Someone noted which I agree is that the Baptist do like their stage shows!
This is not so much about Mac. It is about an abuse of power and an appetite for wealth that is allowed to go unchecked. And about the state of evangelical Christianity. And about violations of the establishment clause because the city is so full of rednecks and kool-aid drinkers in government, in the JSO and in the SAO. Stay tuned
There are things to be hard on him about...
OK, such as?
I think what Bryan Turner did in 1 day showed Jacksonville what Christianity is all about more than what Mac Brunson has done here in 4 years. Bryan Turner was the young man who was one of the Pastors at University Baptist who was killed when he stepped off his "Jesus bus" passing out flyers to vacation bible school.
" Besides, look how many people followed him from FBC Dallas."
July 20, 2010 3:59 PM
Yes indeed - believe they all were put on the payroll and do believe somewhere they said the Mission Director was hired with no prior mission experience on the field! :>)
New BBC Open Forum said...
This.
My, my NASS -- aren't you all hip and mod and groovy and such! :)
I can't see how anyone would view Mac's idea to have a large group show up for his prayer at the City Council as anything other than praying for show. He even said it was to send a message to the city. If you're praying to send a message to anyone other than God, you're praying for the wrong reason.
For one who seems so interested in the truth, you take a lot of liberties in the truth and let falsehoods permeate your blog. You know the truth and that is that Caner confessed before an assembly at Liberty months ago. You also know that Liberty has placed a gag order on him talking about any of this at all. He can neither "confess" anything or defend himself. You know the routine. So who is being honest now? You harm the Kingdom.
July 19, 2010 4:10 PM
Liberty put a gag order on him? They are mere humans looking at PR.
He should follow Christ who does not gag order repentance but requires it. No matter the cost. Eternity is too long for anything else.
That only goes to show how shallow our leaders really are. I am just sad that you believe a human imposed gag order supercedes Christ and His commands for a pure Bride.
"Religion" practiced in the "flesh" accomplishes nothing for the Lord."
Mac is definitely doing a Pharisetical Matthew 6. On purpose. Very scary for those who follow him.
" Besides, look how many people followed him from FBC Dallas."
Is that supposed to be an endorsement?
Sheri said...
Scott nailed it. If Mac and 100 people were to attend this meeting in order to send a message, it should be that the members of FBCJ are there to LISTEN and LEARN about the needs of our community, and how a church the size of FBCJ can help meet those needs.
If we don't do that, it will indeed send a loud message that we are just a bunch of Bible-thumping hypocrites!!
PS - Clay is the Chaplain. Why isn't HE praying ??
I've never been part of FBC. In fact, the only times I've ever been in Jacksonville were a couple of occasions where I was going through the airport on the way to somewhere else.
But after reading Brunson's endorsement of E. Michael Caner on Geisler's website, I know for a fact that I would never want anything to do with the fat, ignorant fool.
"Over the past ten years it has been my privilege to know Ergun Caner. I have been his pastor, his Chancellor at Criswell College, and a fellow laborer in the gospel. I remember well the Sunday night following 9/11 when we had 400 Kurdish Muslims in attendance at a very full service at First Baptist Dallas. Ergun spoke and was not just masterful but was used of God to minister the gospel to those who had come to apologize to us for what had taken place. That night the gospel was preached to Kurds and a multitude of others who gathered in that unique service. Since that evening, I have spoken on conference platforms with Ergun and had him preach for me. I know his grief over these recent events, his deep sorrow, and am confident that God will use this to fit him for greater service in the days to come." –Dr. Mac Brunson, Senior Pastor of First Baptist Church, Jacksonville, FL
I like what John said about JESUS...HE MUST INCREASE AND I MUST DECREASE. THATS WHY JESUS SAID THAT BORN OF WOMAN NO ONE WAS GREATER THAN JOHN.
This reminds me of the situation with Pastor Homer Lindsay. It seemed as though the River Club people kept asking him to come and pray before a luncheon. Being a humble Pastor he turned down many invitations.
Finally he went once to pray. After the prayer he had left no stone unturned. He was never asked to pray again.
Somehow me thinks the Brunson situation will be different.
Tom,
I am a deacon at FBC. I was not able to attend church on the Sunday night you mention this was announced due to a sick wife and child. Just thought you would like to know that I have received no information or requirement to attend the city council meeting. Your blog is actually the first I am hearing about it. I disagree with your take on the whole matter though. Blessings.
Hi FBC Deacon - blessings to you too. Hope your wife and child are doing better.
This is why I put the post up. I know that the deacons of FBC check in here at the blog like you do, and I just wanted to help get the word out to all the FBC Deacons that you need to be there next Tuesday to show Jacksonville that we are a city of prayer, and to support Mac as he prays for our city.
Perhaps I'll be there to show my support too, unless my trespass warning issued by FBC Jax at 124 Ashley Street extends one block south to City Hall. Wait, no, it can't, I was there for about 10 depositions in the General Counsel's Office at City Hall.
Deacon 8:35pm
You deacon's have no backbone - I have little respect for a majority of you as you won't speak or stand up on behalf of the people.
You are the very reason a lot of us left the FBCJ membership - the shameful part is those who have stayed share what's going on.
Interesting that we who have left actually know what is said before some of you "quiet" deacons do.
You say you don't agree with what's said on this blog, well I don't agree with some of you deacons and what you say. Most everything we hear comes from the deacons who don't know how to keep their mouths shut either. You sound like one of the new rookie deacons.
"This is why I put the post up. I know that the deacons of FBC check in here at the blog like you do, and I just wanted to help get the word out to all the FBC Deacons that you need to be there next Tuesday to show Jacksonville that we are a city of prayer, and to support Mac as he prays for our city."
Is this a misspeak, a lie or the truth? Did you put this blog up for the reason you cited?
Wow, you really busted me on that one. That is called "tongue-in-cheek" humor....of course I did not put the blog up to alert deacons at FBCJ. Did you really not know that my comment was a jab, a tongue in cheek comment, or are you lying or misspeaking when you pretend to not know?
:)
I looked closely for a TIC. I even looked again a second time. I could not find one.
I can only go by the words you used, not the feelings or humor (or lack of) that goes with them in this type of forum.
I looked closely for a TIC. I even looked again a second time. I could not find one.
___________________________________
Deacon - are you talking about the deed which said "for love and affection." Did you look at that a second time to see if you could find any consideration paid for a $307,000 piece of land two weeks after the Brunson's arrived?
What about the commercial for Collins Builders? Did you look at that a second time to see if it was quid pro quo for the land gift?
The deacon's resolution. Did you look at that a second time to see if it was Christ like or necessary?
What about those trespass warnings. Did you take a second look to see why Mrs. Rich was being trespassed from her church?
Take a second look at the Times Union article Easter Sunday where your pastor called a former church member mentally unstable and a sociopath. Did he really say that? You better believe he did. Take a second look.
Take a second look at those things, get your nose out of the rear ends of the pastor and staff and other deacons, then come on here and let us know what you found. Taking a second look at the WD's posts is not good use of your time, sir.
to the Anonymous Deacon:
Buddy, I have absolutely no idea what you are babbling about, because this is NOT "my" blog. As I pointed out in my message, I've never even been to FBC. In fact, I've only posted about 2 or 3 messages on this blog. The ONLY reason I'm even here is because of the E. Michael Caner situation.
A major part of the message you are replying to is nothing more than a direct quote from your fat fool of a "pastor" giviing his support to a pathological liar. So if you have any differences of opinion with that post-9/11 prayer meeting, take it up with him, not me, because he is the one who said it.
But taking things further, Mac Brunson bears a significant share of the responsibility for the liar that is Ergun Caner. Brunson saw first hand how Caner was recreating himself with lie upon lie following 9/11, yet did NOTHING to stop it. He is one person who could have nipped this entire thing in the bud, but didn't. Instead, he not only just stood by and watch Caner build this mythological creature for almost a decade, but was an active supporter of him doing so, even to this very day.
E. Michael Caner is a pathological liar, Mac Brunson is a willing and eager accomplice to a pathological liar, which makes him just as guilty. The Bible teached that God HATES liars; so Caner and Brunson are under his righteous judgement for their many sins which bring shame to the cause of Christ.
WEL!
WEL!
HUH?
To anon blogger who says "I am a deacon:
Enough said, we get the picture.
That deacon has serious issues if he can't catch humorous sarcasm. On Provender is this, from cult expert Rick Ross's page called Warning Signs:
Some warning signs of cult followers:
* Leader criticism is characterized as "persecution"
* extreme obsessiveness toward leader or group, resulting in the exclusion of every practical concern
* a dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor
* former followers are, at best, considered negatively, and at worst considered evil
* anything the leader does can be justified, no matter how harsh or harmful.
Was this loss in a sense of humor sudden, I wonder, or has it been going on for some time?
WOW dirty dog you need to get a life
WOW DIRTY dog lol you need to get a life and stop stocking this man!!!
Where have you WD nutjobs been? Offering a prayer at a city function is nothing new. I've been to several functions in which Peyton was present and introduced the invocation. Before you start ranting about the separation of church and state, this passge is NOT in the US Constitution. Look it up.
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