"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Monday, June 6, 2011

Pastors Covering for Each Other - Creflo Dollar Calls Eddie Long's Sexual Predation a Fenderbender, Orders Long's Church Members to Support Him

One of the recurring themes on this blog is how Christian pastors time and time again fail to hold each other accountable to even the most basic professional standards.

This has been seen by the SBC's failure to track sexual predator ministers and warn churches and offer assistance to their victims. It has been seen even in how SBC ministers refuse to hold accountable a serial liar who took SBC congregations for fools for 9 long years. It was seen in how those who promoted Darrel Gilyard early in his ministry were unable to warn others of his sexual deviancy. Only the cops could ultimately expose and stop his predation - the SBC religious men would not.

Watch the video below, and you won't believe your eyes or ears. Creflo Dollar has the audacity to minimize the sexual predation of Eddie Long, attack the members of Long's church who have the common sense to flee Long's church, and demand that they return and support Long's ministry.

Why are people wisely fleeing Long's church causing Dollar to jump to his defense? Eddie Long recently settled a lawsuit out of court in which he was accused of using three teenage boys in his church for sex, grooming them since they were young boys until they were the age of consent, at which point he consummated his sexual relationship with them. It is enough to make one vomit when considering the depths of this sin by a supposed "man of God".

Of course Long won't admit he sinned. He won't ask for forgiveness. Megachurch pastors rarely do. To do so requires humility, and lowering themselves to the level of the plebe in their church. They weigh the pros and cons of their actions after a scandal like any good businessman, and decide it is just too costly to confess and repent publicly. Instead they speak in parsed words and and portray themselves as the victims from the pulpit, and usually they are rewarded with a standing ovation the Sunday after the news story breaks.

There really seems to be no end to how far professional religious men in our country will go to profit themselves and their friends in the "ministry".

All the while, the world is watching these mega ministers as though they are representatives of what the gospel is all about, and the throngs are deciding that the gospel is not for them.

As a friend of the Watchdog says, "Worse and worse."

Thanks to Kevin Oliver for the video and spot-on commentary in the video below. Watch the video and read Kevin's commentary.


87 comments:

Sharon said...

What IS required of pastors, then, if
Dollar is right? Anything? Must be charismatic and well-dressed and a great speaker? Maybe not having those things are the real sins, when it comes right down to it.

And I think it's excellent how the guy that did the video points out the techniques used to win people over.

Anonymous said...

Great message by Pastor Dollar and he is a wonderful example of a true friend.

He did not excuse Pastor Long's behavior, he just spoke about how we are too forgive and restore.

Isn't that in the Bible?

Do YOU believe in Grace?

Anonymous said...

A video of the parking lots at New Birth Baptist was also posted again this week.

Looks like a lot of people are leaving - congregants were asked to pony up for two more churches right after a confidential settlement, add the fallout from the Capital City Corp scam - the congregation has no say do they?

Can they vote on a budget or remove Long?
He told his congregation in his Sunday sermon the church had an audit - but there is nothing on the website, no word on what firm (if it was a firm and not just a friend) did it, the statement was self-serving and incomplete.

wv: worth:^)

Bene D

Debbie Kaufman said...

Anonymous: Do you realize that Eddie Long did much more than "have a wreck?" He destroyed these boys lives. He forever changed who they are. He essentially murdered them inside. He cannot do this and still be a preacher.

I am for forgiveness, but that does not mean that consequences for actions is to be set aside. Eddie Long did not ask for forgiveness. He settled a lawsuit. That is all he did. But I can guarantee you that no amount of monies paid can ever restore these boys now men to who they formerly were or heal the damage done.

Arce said...

Forgiveness and restoration should only occur after confession -- a public confession -- and a time out of the leadership of the church to explore in counseling -- with a certified professional counselor selected by representatives of the VICTIMS not the pastor -- then and only then should any talk of restoration occur. The Pastor has violated his commitment to the church and must leave for at least a year or two, get counseling, be released by the counselor as having completed a course of therapy and having been truly contrite. That a church would provide some support for the pastor through such a process, and pay for the counseling, is grace aplenty.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

It is interesting once again how we see contrasts between the "men of God", and secular leaders, when it comes to public confession and apologies.

Congressman Anthony Weiner first lied about texting pictures of his genitals, but at least yesterday he confessed and admitted he did it, and admitted he lied. His peers will have a formal inquiry into what he did. He will likely be shamed into resignation.

But Eddie Long will never, ever publicly confess. No religious institution will conduct an inquiry to find the truth. No one will ask Eddie Long to step down. Instead, he used the tithes and offerings of church members to pay off the victims and purchase their silence.

This says something about the two men, and something about the institutions they represent and their respective peer groups.

Anthony Weiner ultimately had to confess. If he were a mega church pastor operating in a religious institution that protected him because he is "God's man", he probably would not have.

But our political system demands a much higher standard of ethics from politicians than we do mega church pastors.

Just another example of how sick and twisted our religious culture has become. The secular world has to serve as the example for "men of God" on how to confess and repent and ask for forgiveness.

Methodist said...

I am just shaking my head.

I would rather chew and swallow gravel than hear most Baptist ministers these days.

Baptist should be embarrassed at what they now hear and see.

I was and I did something about it - I left it!

Thy Peace said...

Pew sitters are waking up. Just as the people in the middle east are waking up: NYTimes > Advice for China. (Word Verification: wakin)

Anonymous said...

People like Anon 11:06 pm are mostly to blame for the lack of accountability in Baptist churches today.

Anonymous said...

Some good therapy expert needs to get him of the grid.

Betty said...

Shame on you Creflo. I use to think you were a true man of God. It's not that God won't forgive Eddie Long for what he did - but you need to not use the pulpit for your friend. The Bible says that a Bishop is to be spotless. You can't use the word to make his congregants return and sit up under this. You are wrong for telling those people to return and sit up under Eddie Long because he is your friend. They should be told to attend where their hearts lead them - not to return. This is not right and you ought to be ashamed of yourself. I am so disappointed. I wonder what you would say if he was not your "friend."

Anonymous said...

AMEN Methodist @ 9:21. I did the same thing! Thank you FBD.

Anonymous said...

A couple of things...

You Methodist need to check out what is happening in the UMC.
Homosexuals are taking over and it is very sad to see the lack of biblical knowledge in the Methodist Church. "Ichabod" has been written over the door of most Methodist Churches.

David and Jonathon were friends.

David sinned and Jonathon continued to be his friend.

Eddie Long and Creflo Dollar are friends.

Eddie sinned and Creflo continues to be his friend...and the problem is?????

Eddie is still under Grace
Eddie is still under Mercy
Eddie is still loved by the Father
Eddie's sins are still under the blood.

You may not like him...
You may not agree with him...
You may not want to know him...

But who are YOU to Judge HIM!

Pull that Timber out of your eye folks, you Pharisees are fixin to get in a wreck yourself!

Anonymous said...

David wept and confessed his sin, and asked for restoration. The Bible clearly records his bitter remorse and the joy of forgiveness he finds.

Has Bishop Long done this? (and where does this "Bishop" nonsense come from anyway)

Your post is cliche, soundbite-ish, and shallow, 2:16.

Anonymous said...

Hey, stupid people.

Forgiveness does not exempt from consequences.

Eddie Long molested young men in a homosexual encounter and you think he should not face any consequences?

What if it were your son or your daughter who was groomed to be molested? I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune.

This man should face the consequences of his actions and that includes people recognizing that maybe a pastor who thinks he above even God's own laws is not the pastor from them and their families.

You have to be able to trust your pastor to not only lead, but to also heed God's word in his own life.

Again, forgiveness does not exempt from consequences.

Anonymous said...

"But who are YOU to Judge HIM!"

Who are you to judge US!

Anonymous said...

"Pull that Timber out of your eye folks, you Pharisees are fixin to get in a wreck yourself!"

Take your own advice TROLL!

Two things we know about the TROLL for sure:
1) he's from the south (fixin)
2) he's a big part of why the SBC is such trouble

Ignorant men-worshippers in the pew

Valarie said...

My opinion is that the word "Forgiveness" should not be mentioned until Long is not just embarrassed, ashamed, and REPENTANT but completely broken hearted by his sin. Not just his sinful behavior but by his sinful heart.
No matter what the details are he should be absolutely broken by the damage he has done to the lives of people who trusted him.
Debbie Kaufman expressed what abuse does to a person very well.

The arrogant behavior he displays shows a very hard heart. Not a heart where the Holy Spirit dwells and convicts.
When will people stop idolizing a charismatic man...and in some cases like Mac and SG...not even that. Most churches today are no better than the world. In some cases they are worse.

Anonymous said...

You want to know why Baptist ministers do the things they do,

Because, like Mac Brunson and others who use that little box surrounding them each Sunday, they dumb and blind members down to think they are the all mighty and powerful "Man God has chosen" and a l l o w them to speak as if they are Christ.

You baptist men followers and pew packers---- are really really sad!

Now pass the plate please

Anonymous said...

I left too. I am now United Methodist

Provender said...

Yes, WD. Good to point out the covering the nakedness scheme of megachurches. Chris Efinda on the Bereans blog mentions a doctrine these types use to cover up the sins of megachurch leaders. It's called "covering the nakedness of your father" and spiritual abuse enablers justify their cover-ups by likening what they are doing to what Noah's sons did. It's all sick. P.S. I've also become Methodist

Sharon said...

I've become Unitarian Universalist!

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:16-
When David sinned with Bathsheba, Jonathan was no longer a friend to David, because Jonathan was already dead!
You probably think that "God helps those who help themselves" is also in the bible, don't you?
Kyle

Richard said...

Thankful to be a Presbyterian.

Anonymous said...

Box Springs Baptist member here.

Anonymous said...

"But who are YOU to Judge HIM!"

Who are you to judge US!

June 7, 2011 4:02 PM

I think what the ignorant troll is saying is that one must have a Christian title in order to make judgements. Even when it comes to pervert pastors. See, the result is that they are never judged for bad fruit. Great gig until J-Day comes. Scripture says they get their reward HERE. I wish they understood that.

I am not nearly as concerned for the pervert or charlatan pastors as I am for those who actually believe them.

Anonymous said...

Don't even think in terms of denominations. Think in terms of being Christ centered.

Anonymous said...

"Eddie is still under Grace
Eddie is still under Mercy
Eddie is still loved by the Father
Eddie's sins are still under the blood."

So.....He should sin some more so he can get more Grace. Oh wait, Paul covered that wrong thnking in Romans.

The Troll needs to study Hebrews 10, too.

Anonymous said...

The Troll is indicative of what The SBC is turning out from their pews these days.

Anonymous said...

Lots of folks leaving churches - especially Baptist and its derivities - and discovering true spiritual freedom from their bondage, baggage, and twisted thinking.

I can testify! It takes quite awhile to detox, but for the sake of my spiritual health, it has been so worth it.

I now view church as something to enhance my faith, not control my life.

Anonymous said...

Wow, Dollar says to take your family back and trust them with a man under his care., whose only sin was that had a wreck & caused causelties.

No thank you - how do you know another wreck is not waiting down the road & it's your kid whose the victim.
Any protective father/mother protects their kids from danger - especially from pastors like the 2 of them.

Anonymous said...

I am all for forgiveness and restoration and I can not judge anyone. He must confess to God and seek forgiveness from Him and from the boys. I heard that he did step down for 30 days after news of the case first broke.

Anonymous said...

"I am all for forgiveness and restoration and I can not judge anyone. He must confess to God and seek forgiveness from Him and from the boys. I heard that he did step down for 30 days after news of the case first broke."

So, how were you able to come to the conclusion that he needs to confess to God and seek forgiveness without judging him?

WishIhadknown said...

Hey Kyle, it’s in the book of Hezekiah along with “cleanliness is next to godliness.” ;)

Anonymous said...

The "church" is any group of believers who meet. The scriptures say, where 2 or 3 gather in my Name....

We have been brainwashed it has to be a large group and in a special building.

ekklesia means "called out ones"

Although there are a host of pastors who tel you that you are in sin if you do not attend a "local church" but they do not define what a local church really is. Guess that is because they make a living off of it. SBC Voices has a blog post about people must attend a local church. And since the blog is pastor driven, my guess is they are feeling the crunch.

Jon L. Estes said...

"I've become Unitarian Universalist!"

Sharon -

What were you prior to this choice?

Long Time FBC Jax Member said...

A major clarification is in order :

A wreck is not premeditated !!

Eddie Long is a predator. He lay in wait for these young men to reach 16, then attacked them, destroying all that they knew and trusted. It is said that these predators are not capable of rehabilitation. His only hope is repentance and the power of God in his life.

Parents, please keep your young people away from this man !!

Anonymous said...

Creflo Dollar is speaking the Gospel of Grace.

Grace is greater than all of our sins.

It is by Grace that you are saved.

I am so thankful that there are men like Pastor Dollar that does not crucify their brother.

I am so thankful that God is in the restoration business.

I am so thankful that when I have a "wreck" that my Pastor will understand because he is a wreck too.

This is all so Biblical, you can see God's hand in it all. He can make beauty out of our ashes!

Anonymous said...

P.T. Barnum said that there is a sucker (er I mean) TROLL born every second.

Anonymous said...

I am a proud Baptist. It does not mean that I like everything that the SBC does or doesn't do, nor do I condone everything that te SBC does or doesn't do. But the local autonomous church that I belong to is made up of a group of people who though we don't always agree, love one another, love our pastor (even when I don't agree with him) and most importantly love the Lord.

Cranky Old Baptist said...

First of all.

Long and Dollar merely due what Apostates do.

Apostate theology is and always will be fraught with sexual perversion.

2 Peter has much to say about that.

Their theology mandates that they not come within 50 times zones of being considered "Christian" anything, much less compared with men of legitimate credibility.

No one can put these two (dollar and long) in the same calling, under the same Lord, preaching the same truths, as legitimate men of God. "Lindseys, Rogers, Criswells, Havners, Vines, etc."

Just acknowledging them as "clergy" makes me mad. The devil's dudes, do what the devil's dudes do.

For the truth's sake, do not under any circumstances whatsoever view them as "pastors" for they are NOT. They are "Aposters".

Thy Peace said...

New BBC Open Forum > Preaching to the Choir

Jon L. Estes said...

"I am a proud Baptist. It does not mean that I like everything that the SBC does or doesn't do, nor do I condone everything that te SBC does or doesn't do. But the local autonomous church that I belong to is made up of a group of people who though we don't always agree, love one another, love our pastor (even when I don't agree with him) and most importantly love the Lord."

OK, you must be a member of the church I pastor. Nod your head at me tonight before we begin our prayer service. I'll nod back.

Anonymous said...

"proud Baptist."

And therein is the root of the problem with the denomination.

WishIhadknown said...

Grace is not an excuse to be stupid.

WishIhadknown said...

Dr. Rogers used to speak about there are certain things you do even though scripture could be interpreted as saying we should not.
For instance, as he would say, “I do believe ‘thou shalt not kill” but if you were to try to do anything to harm my wife or one of my children I would do everything in my power including killing you to stop you.”
Now the Bible is clear, right? It says “thou shalt not kill” right? Then why is it so hard to accept if I or anyone else misbehaves there has to be appropriate consequences. If you molest a child you are not worth of ordination and that is for life. Period. The church should never let a member be vulnerable to a predator again!
This has nothing to do with judging, grace, repentance or restoration; it’s just common sense, plain and simple.

WishIhadknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

wishihadknown,.

what makes you think Adrian Rogers did not know about Paul Williams over all those years?

Others in the church knew and kept it quiet.

Methinks you have made an idol of Rogers. You quote him all the time. He went along with the big wigs on many very bad things in the 80's and 90's. You should do your homework.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and Rogers recommended Gaines. Did he really have that little discernment and wisdom. After all, his shenanigans at Gardendale were not a big secret.

Nuff said.

Anonymous said...

OK, you must be a member of the church I pastor. Nod your head at me tonight before we begin our prayer service. I'll nod back.

June 8, 2011 3:11 PM

And make sure you are ignorant of scripture so you can tolerate Jon's preaching.

Anonymous said...

Creflo Dollar is speaking the Gospel of Grace.

Grace is greater than all of our sins.

It is by Grace that you are saved.

I am so thankful that there are men like Pastor Dollar that does not crucify their brother.

I am so thankful that God is in the restoration business.

I am so thankful that when I have a "wreck" that my Pastor will understand because he is a wreck too.

This is all so Biblical, you can see God's hand in it all. He can make beauty out of our ashes!

June 8, 2011 2:02 PM

Hey, commit some worse sins because Grace is cheap! And you can get more!

Oh wait, Paul tackled that error in Romans.

Anonymous said...

The video in this blog has been removed by YouTube. It's no longer viewable.

Anonymous said...

You blogger people are "commercially deceptive now".


Lol

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Yes, Creflo Dollar is doing his best to wipe this off the Internet.

But the video will be back up very soon, as in hours, so stand by.

WishIhadknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

If you truly love your pastor and he is mired in sin, then you confront the pastor about the sin.

Yes, you can have forgiveness.

However, the pastor is still accountable for his actions and still must face the consequences of those actions, be it either in the church or through the secular courts and law.

You can't just explain away sin and that's what is being done here. However, once you start holding people accountable for their sins, the whole house of cards starts coming down. The whole heresy here is the fallacy of being more annointed or holier. You are either holy or you are not. There are no varying degrees of holiness. There are no varying degrees of sinner.

However, people hitch their faith onto another man rather than Christ. That, my friends, is far more devastating if you truly look at it.

Pastors are still men and therefore still sinners. It's accountability, not wagon circling, that needs to happen when a pastor sins.

Forgiveness will never exempt anyone from the consequences of their actions.

Anonymous said...

Any wonder the World mocks the Church

Salvation Boulevard in US theaters July 15, 2011

Another Link

Apparently God must be too busy to clean up the mess His Anointed have created, Quack

WishIhadknown said...

Oh, yeah, I quote Dr. Rogers a lot because he is an almost universally known figure who teaching is normally respected among the denizens here where as I am just your normal Joe church nobody. Also Dr. Rogers is also highly respected even among those he opposed. Something I have learned firsthand. And too, like I said I served under him for over thirty years so it his teaching that I have the most firsthand knowledge. If that makes you thing I regard him as an idol, so be it. You have the same right to be wrong as I have.

WishIhadknown said...

Well said, Anonymous June 8, 2011 7:05 PM

WishIhadknown said...

Oops, goofed again, bad computer, bad computer. Take two.

Yes, I quote Dr. Rogers and yes he was not perfect and he freely admitted it. I was a member of Bellevue for over 30 years so Dr. Rogers’ teaching has had a great influence on my life. Frankly, I wish more of it had stuck but that is a personal problem. I think its called sin.
Dr. Rogers did not know about Paul Williams. I know because Mrs. Rogers said so.
I know because I have witnessed Dr. Rogers discipline ministers caught in just plain old, garden variety adultery. Let me tell you even now, years later, I still get chills from what I witnessed.
There is no way I can adequately explain the look of stern resolve and yet compassion he had but there is no doubt he meant business and he was beyond serious. In all cases, these men lost their ordination certificates and their ministry. So I know that had Dr. Rogers known about Paul Williams there would have been immediate and appropriate repercussions and there would have been none of this mambe pambe bologna about it ok because we have to forgive.
I know because I have served under Paul Williams’ ministry and have grown old with Paul Williams. I know because I have known the Paul Williams’ family the entire time. At no time did I know or even suspect that this atrocity had occurred. Even now I love Paul Williams but there is no circumstance where I would condone Paul Williams serving in a leadership capacity at any church.
Yes, Dr. Rogers was not the best judge of a man’s character which was evidenced years ago by another event in the Rogers family that for those of us who were familiar with it left us scratching our heads wondering how this happened.
As far as the 80’s and 90’s go, I don’t have to do my homework, I was there; I am a witness.
With regard to Gaines, I am as bum fuddled as anyone on that one but had you been there you would have come to the same conclusion as everyone else and that is that Gaines is the one.
One thing that you have to give Steve Gaines credit for; is that he was remarkably candid with the Pastor Search Committee. I mean if a man flat out tells you that, “if you call me I will destroy your church” and yet you still recommend him? (A fact that I wish I had known, thus wishihadknown.) I mean really, who does that?
Anything else I can answer for you?

Anonymous said...

How will the video be up again in a few hours? You'll have to convince YouTube that the Fair Use Doctrine provides legal basis for it to exist and be shown publicly.

Anonymous said...

wishihadknown,

why not quote Jesus or even Paul. Perhaps you can only understand them through Rogers.

Rogers was sure one of the "players" and protected a lot of evil within the SBC leadership.

So, you believe he did not know about Williams?

Anonymous said...

Any wonder the World can see the Church so clearly

Salvation Boulevard in US theaters July 15, 2011

Another Link

WishIhadknown said...

I frequent quote scripture. You just need to pay more attention. ;)

Anonymous said...

whoof whoof , dog, are you going to post this????????? You don't seem to want to post other posts?

Another Link

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Sorry, they were stuck in the spam folder. I just released all of them.

Looks like an interesting film. I think it will hit a little too close to home on some of the topics we've discussed here.

WishIhadknown said...

And another thing, I wrote all of that and the only thing you come away with is I quote Dr. Rogers too much. Come on dude, really!

Anonymous said...

Pastor Creflo Dollar Defends His "Brother In The Lord" Bishop Eddie Long

Another Link

Another Link

Another Link

Squash it and it will just multiply

Anonymous said...

Jon-
No I am not a member of your church.
Anon 3:31- My comments were because so many were telling us they were now Methodist and Unitarian Universalist (ugh). And still others were denouncing Baptists, so I merely was standing up for my beliefs and association and letting people know that I am not ashamed of being a Baptist (I am embarassed by what some Baptists do, however.). Don't be so touchy and judgmental.

Anon 2:46

Jon L. Estes said...

"Jon-
No I am not a member of your church.
Anon 3:31- My comments were because so many were telling us they were now Methodist and Unitarian Universalist (ugh). And still others were denouncing Baptists, so I merely was standing up for my beliefs and association and letting people know that I am not ashamed of being a Baptist (I am embarassed by what some Baptists do, however.). Don't be so touchy and judgmental."

You misread me. I was encouraged by your comment. I have a church filled with people who are proud to be baptist, who love each other with all our warts showing. who most importantly, love the Lord.

I hope that clears up that I was not being touchy or judgmental.

Anonymous said...

Jon L. Estes said...
".....who love each other with all our warts.. " ?

Are you referring to Weenies? as this post is referring to sexual predators?

Listen to Eddie Long say ...take your clothes down and I show you who you are....

Anna Renee said...

The video is gone!

Anonymous said...

Jon L. Estes said...

"..... who love each other with all our warts ...."

are you referring to "our Weiners"?
as the topic of this post is Sexual Predators

...take your clothes down and I show you who you are....

Anonymous said...

Whoof Whoof, Dog are you awake?

3 sites that have the video:
Pastor Creflo Dollar Defends His "Brother In The Lord" Bishop Eddie Long

Another Link

Another Link

Another Link

Anonymous said...

This video needed to be gone.

You misled us to think Pastor Dollar was covering up Pastor Long.

NO!!!!!!!!!

Pastor was giving us insight to what the Word said about Grace and Mercy...it even applies to Leaders!

These men will do more for Jesus than you will ever dream of doing.

They are His Anointed...

DON'T TOUCH THEM!

Debbie Kaufman said...

Anon: You are wrong. Not only have you taken a verse completely out of context, which Dollar does quite frequently, but you blaspheme Christ when you say such things. To not question someone who had sex with several young boys is insanity. A insanity that has permeated the Christian community.

The world has it right on how to treat those who break the law, unfortunately it is folks such as yourself that make a mockery of the law, the victims, and Christianity, what the Bible really teaches. Not those who dare call wrong, wrong. Sin, sin.

Anonymous said...

Pastor Creflo Dollar Defends His "Brother In The Lord" Bishop Eddie Long Video links

Another Link

Another Link

Another Link

Anonymous said...

"DON'T TOUCH THEM!"

Hey Jon, you finally found someone who agrees with your interpretation of of Psalm 105.

Too bad it's the TROLL.

Too bad it's in support of a perverted pastor.

Anonymous said...

"This video needed to be gone."

Why if what the "anointed" pastor is saying is true. Why would you need to take down a video that is teaching us about "Grace and Mercy?"

Anonymous said...

"Yes, Dr. Rogers was not the best judge of a man’s character which was evidenced years ago by another event in the Rogers family that for those of us who were familiar with it left us scratching our heads wondering how this happened."

What are you talking about here?

WishIhadknown said...

It's on a need to know basis and you don't need to know. While its not private, its personal.

Anonymous said...

"It's on a need to know basis and you don't need to know."

Since you don't know me, you wouldn't know whether I need to know or not.

"While its not private, its personal."

So were the other items you mentioned.

New BBC Open Forum said...

With regard to Gaines, I am as bum fuddled as anyone on that one but had you been there you would have come to the same conclusion as everyone else and that is that Gaines is the one.
One thing that you have to give Steve Gaines credit for; is that he was remarkably candid with the Pastor Search Committee. I mean if a man flat out tells you that, “if you call me I will destroy your church” and yet you still recommend him? (A fact that I wish I had known, thus wishihadknown.) I mean really, who does that?


I was there the Sunday they announced the search committee had found "God's man." The first red flag came a minute later when they announced that they weren't going to announce "God's man's" name. Of course, many people assumed it was going to be Steve Gaines, but other names were tossed around as well.

I happened to be out of town the next Sunday when "God's man" was brought in to preach and the vote (a standing vote) was taken immediately. So I can truthfully say I didn't vote to call SG.

I didn't hear him until his first Sunday, September 11, 2005. I was shocked. He was not what I had expected. While he'd preached at Bellevue once a year for the previous 9 years, I'd never had the opportunity to hear him. (In and out of town a lot, and just not there any Sunday that he was.) I had an immediate bad feeling about him. It's not something I could put my finger on, and I said nothing to anyone, including my family. That bad feeling (not just about SG but about a lot of things at Bellevue) never went away, and it wasn't long before we saw his true colors. I eventually learned that even in my own family, it wasn't "just me." A lot of people had that same bad feeling but didn't say anything about it until later.

"Yes, Dr. Rogers was not the best judge of a man’s character which was evidenced years ago by another event in the Rogers family that for those of us who were familiar with it left us scratching our heads wondering how this happened."

What are you talking about here?


I'm guessing that was probably a reference to his youngest daughter's first husband since that's the only issue I'm aware of "in the Rogers family." I don't think this is the place to discuss it.

Anonymous said...

Whenever I read the OT or church history, I am amazed at how much history repeats itself with evil men masquerading as "men of God".

Paul warned of this in Acts 20.

Anonymous said...

"I'm guessing that was probably a reference to his youngest daughter's first husband since that's the only issue I'm aware of "in the Rogers family." I don't think this is the place to discuss it."

OK - that's what I was thinking also. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

This makes me wonder about Creflo Dollar. How long will it be before something comes out like this about him, you know the old saying "Birds of a feather flock together"

Anonymous said...

We all must be held accountable for our actions, even pastors….. And too many pastors are giving christanity a bad name.

"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."
— Brennan Manning