"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Thursday, October 23, 2008

Mac Brunson: Our Faltering Economy is God's Judgment on America

Below is a video clip showing Mac's assessment that the current stock market crash and the spike of fuel prices this summer was the direct result of God working behind the scenes to get the attention of Americans. He preached this on Sunday October 12, right at the time when many Americans were very fearful of what was happening to out stock market and economy - especially seniors whose retirement income is directly tied to their hard-earned life savings and investments. The message they got from their preacher was not one of hope, but one of fear. In this video Mac builds the case that what we see today is from God, and he even starts it all with the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal, 9/11, Katrina, all precursors to God causing our economic crash...its all been God, like the evil magician, working to bring calamity on Americans.

Its amazing really, that this sort of thing is now coming forth from the pulpit of First Baptist Jacksonville. To explain that God is causing this calamity and the suffering of innocent people is beyond the pale. It not only gives people the wrong impression of the nature of God, but it strikes fear into the heart of God's people. Using Mac's logic, I suppose we can explain other calamities and suffering, such as children dying everyday from starvation and malaria - is that God's doing to in an attempt to get our attention?

This is what happens when a preacher gets away from expository preaching and begins to rely on his oratory skill and story telling and history. Mac here takes the story of Hosea and Gomer from the Old Testament, and spends several minutes translating that into modern day to tell us that God is punishing us.

Preachers, just stick to preaching the Word.

54 comments:

Anonymous said...

These videos are poor attempts at trying to make it seem as if your an undercover James Bond filming the pastor in the services.

Junkster said...

Who's to say?

Unless Mac is a prophet receiving direct divine revelation into the mind and purposes of God (which I highy doubt), there's no way to know if America's current economic woes are a result of Divine judgment, or of Satanic attack on the righteous, or someting else altogether (like just the natural outcome of bad decisions by greedy businessmen and power-hungry politicians).

No doubt calamity can be a direct result of God's judgment, whether on His own people or on unbelievers. Just read Lamentations, particularly chapter 3, to see that God can be the author of horrendously bad situations intended for the ultimate good of His people and for His own glory.

Also no doubt bad situations can come through no fault in any human's actions -- read Job for an example of that.

But it is not our place to speak for the reasons God may have for what we see going on around us. Unless He reveals His intent through His Word (such as given to the prophet Jeremiah in Lamentations), we are often left in the dark as to whether a bad cicrumstance is His judgment or something else (like Job).

Watchdog, you are right -- if preachers would stick to expounding on what God has already clearly revealed in Scripture, via expository preaching of the text and solid application of the text conistent with its original intent, there would be no need (or time) for speculations and supposed insights into things He has not chosen to reveal.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Junkster - good points.

My point is that Mac is taking a story out of the Old Testament, Hosea and Gomer, and then directly translates that into his knowledge, from "God's lips to Mac's ears" as I've said before...that God is behind these terrible circumstances. I don't know anything about how preachers are taught to exegate (sp?) scriptures, but I can't imagine they teach this method in seminary - taking an Old Testament story, observing how Hosea dealt with Gomer, and then using that to say, "See what Hosea did, this tells me that God is behind 9/11 and the economy crash"

And dare I say...if this were Jeremiah Wright, we would be seeing these clips on Fox News.

And if someone from our church runs for higher office in the future, we might be seeing Mac Brunson clips like this one.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

"undercover James Bond"

What are you talking about?

Anonymous said...

Preachers--at least, the best ones--also want to COMMUNICATE from the pulpit, as preaching isn't teaching BUT our congregations obviously need to learn to live the Christian life (so, the history lessons honestly can be considered illustrations--lots and lots of now-boring illustrations?). Expository preaching can be very poorly done, too. So, the better suggestion is to do better at whatever kind of preaching is done. If a man preaches accurately from anywhere in his Bible, he "preached" God's Word as far as the Lord is concerned (He used a jackass once in Old Testament times) and God can/will bless it.

Dr. Gary Chapman, in his 5 Love Languages book, points out that research shows dating couples experience a very real "in love" phase which lasts about 2-3 years but then ends with reality sinking in. Lots of couples choose to get married while they're in the "in love" phase, but divorce before their first child is 5 years old (unfortunately for the child, who didn't ask to have stupid parents who won't get their act together). The "in love" phase apparently isn't real love, as real love is volitional and not emotional. Divorcing couples choose ("execise their volition") no longer to pursue each other despite-it-all and no-matter-what like they promised. DOES THIS DESCRIBE FBCJAX AND ITS RELATIONSHIP WITH MAC? It describes many other pastor/church relationships where a new pastor follows a long-tenured pastor (at FBCJax, essentially had the same pastor for, what, 30 years--with the Lindsays and Vines?).

There was a time, as brief as it may have been, when an imperfect FBCJax "married" an equally-imperfect Mac Brunson (despite how the pastor search committee described him--they were just happy to be bringing the search to a close, and would have said just about anything, maybe!); everyone was starry-eyed--the congregation was delighted to have another famous senior pastor, and Mac was delighted to be given a half-a-million dollars each year as salary. Then a couple of years later, reality set-in: Mac actually preaches the same boring sermon week after week WHEN he's in town, and FBCJax really is more stuck in the past than Mac thought (keep in mind that PERCEPTION is reality whether or not it's actually reality--but wearing ties on Wednesday nights IS stuck in the past!). Both sides began to withdraw from each other, and forcing each other away by other selfish choices made (e.g., this blogsite). Now, only the semblance of a "marriage" exists--at least, in some minds--and only Christ/character/commitment/communication/conduct can fix it.

Who has any of these? Be the first one, then, to fix the marriage--before more innocent "children" exclaim, "My parents really are stupid! God forgive them--but get them, too!"

Anyone with a real spiritual backbone and good sense there? Hello?

Anonymous said...

Keep in mind, things must get bad enough for the Lord to return. We just may be in that "spiral down". If so keep looking up. Our redemption draweth nigh. But, as was said in a previous blog., if we (FBC) are being punished for (whatever), then maybe we are being punished with having Brunson for a preacher. Preaching that God is "getting" us may have a reverse effect on the money situation. If people are frightened enough they will not give. They will hold on to their money. Then I guess it will be sermons on OUR greed. As was mentioned once before Dr. Lindsay preached ONCE yearly,( in Sept.) on money. It was not mentioned again that year.

America will be judged one day. So will the rest of the world. That would include Brunson. It's called "The Judgement Seat of Christ", for the believer. And "The Great White Throne Judgement " for the lost.

Anonymous said...

Well, thats pretty good. So far it's God and George Bush that has been blamed for what the devil, and Bin Laden did on 9/ll. Does anyone down there have a brain? Does anyone see that there are evil forces that want to destroy this country? Can people STOP blaming God with what man and the devil do?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Well said Anon - to blame God for the economic crash, and to say it with such arrogant authority. Mac speaks not with authority from the scripture, but with authority of his forceful voice and oratory skills. Its all rubbish. God was not looking to see how he could get the stock market to crash. It was caused by out of control politicians - namely Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and Chuck Schumer. It is greed, it is gross government negligence, and spineless politicians. This was a time bomb that we should have seen coming. And we can't forget the blame that lays with some people who got into mortgages that they had no business being in.

But no, Mac blames God! Many of the elderly in our church - probably the ones that Mac and his lyng supporters on this blog call "dead weight" in the church...are living on their hard earned money saved and invested in the stock market. And as Mac pops off about God doing this, their incomes have been cut nearly in half, and some will have to go back to work at age 70 to earn money to pay their bills.

No problem for Mac. He has $400,000+ coming in per year from the backs of these "dead weighters"...and likely has an agreement to pay him x dollars after he leaves.

Its all too much to contemplate.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Let's try this preaching on Mac, since he gave it to us on the video:

"All this blogging that is causing you frustration Mac, its not a recalcitrant blogger giving you grief. Don't blame him. The blog and anonymous emails are all God trying to get your attention. Just as Hosea tried to get Gomer's attention with blessings in the midst of sin, so God tried to get your attention. He has tried blessing, now he is trying buffetting, Mac. Don't blame the person behind the blog, its actually God doing this to you! God gave you huge blessings when you came, and in your first year as you took a huge land gift, neglected your duties, wrote a hypocricial book, your wife was put on staff, you were built the office suite of your dreams...in spite of all these blessings you called your church a "hotbed of legalism" behind their backs...God still gave you blessings. You moved into a huge house...your book was made required reading at seminaries, you landed great preaching gigs...all these blessings. Now the blog is here and its God trying to get your attention. I mean how much louder does God have to speak to get your attention Mac? He's saying "Wake up, Mac", "Wake Up, Mac", "Wake up, Mac"

There, how does that preach? It ain't the blogger. Its God!

gmommy said...

I get so tired of the attitude that says...Christians shouldn't point out wrong or hold a brother accountable...especially someone "called" to minister.

In the real world that's called enabling and unhealthy for all involved.

In some other denominations, it's not nearly the problem it is for the Baptists.

We've all been slowly simmering in such bad theology for so long....many Baptists actually believe the twisted theology coming from SBC pulpits.

FBC jax and BBC Memphis are just 2 examples of the many dysfunctional Baptist churches.
It's only going to get worse the more a minister preaches about his "authority" and what God tells him rather than being an obedient servant to God's Word.

Anonymous said...

I am saddened that Mr. Brunson chose to use ambush theology concerning the economy and other events that will have an adverse and on-going effect on so many people. The economic disaster not only affected our lives in the U.S. but the coat-tail residuals created world-wide economic woes. So in essence Brunson blames God for the woes of the world. What he and others cannot explain, they blame God for.

We cannot blame God for the environment we create for ourselves. Brunson and others should fall down on their knees and thank God how little they were affected personally. Many others were not so fortunate.

We have to distinguish carefully between permissive and active will of God.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Jim Smyrl says on his latest blog entry:

"Sin can be defined as any misrepresentation of the character of God in word, thought, motive, or action."

Excellent Jim. You really busted Mac with that one. If this video is not a misrepresentation of the chacacter of God in word, then I don't know what is.

Anonymous said...

Hence the greed you talked about earlier is a sin and deserves to be punished!

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Kool Aid Drinker Roll Call:

Please, if you're one of the Kool Aid drinkers, please check in here with your name, rank, and serial number, and please affirm that you believe as Mac does, that our economic problems are a direct result of God intervening and causing them.

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

FBC Jax and BBC Memphis have more in common than most know about. Just as Brunson created a new, paid staff position for his then 22 year old son, Gaines at BBC recently announced a newly created, paid staff position for his seminary son; all the while BBC was terminating as many as 88 positions at the church, due to economic reasons. Most were not given more than one day notice before being told they no longer had a job. All the while making room and adjustments for the son to join the staff early 2009!!

Seems Brunson and Gaines both are trying to emulate John Hagee, whose wealth and earnings are many times greater than these two. Hagee's son, Matthew, is on the board of his television ministries, another well paid position.

Is the nepotism part of the new Baptist pastor's creed? Or is it simply what most of us suspect, GREED.

Anonymous said...

Is Mac going to blame God the next time a church burns, or the christians?

Anonymous said...

You put an article out on this a while back and I didn't believe it. Showing the actual footage is quite unbelievable. What is going on down there at that church? We used to look to First Jax as the church where the most God-honoring preaching was delivered week by week. Apparently that is no more.

Anonymous said...

You guys have called out Smyrl and Trey. Why not invite John Blount, Jr. and Kevin King to weigh in. Blount grew up under the Lindsays and he and his family were part of what made FBC Jax what it is today. Yet, John remains on salary, giving his consent to all. What gives, John? No way to make the same salary in construction or at a real church? Or are you looking and just haven't been "called" to another church yet. And how did those facilities needs go on so long under your watch? Come on John, earn that big executive salary brother? And Kevin. You were once a man's man with conviction. Now just a whipped puppy worried about losing his salary if Trey, or Honey or Maurilio say its time for you to go? You guys are unbelievable.

Anonymous said...

The issues we are discussing today are no different than they were in the days when Jesus walked this earth or after his resurrection. Paul wrote to church after church to be on guard for false teachers. He was always concerned that the message of the Cross, of Christ as the eternal Savior, of a Grace full and free, and the forgiveness of sin would be "hijacked" (my word - not scriptural) by those with personal agendas.

To the Corinthians he wrote "I appeal to you, brothers in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought" - I Cor. 1:10

His letter to the Galatians was a direct response to attacks from false teachers. Paul was concerned that the Galatians were turning from faith to legalism. His concern was that their focus would be on trying to "earn" their way to God - not by the Grace of Jesus Christ.

Paul wrote to the church at Ephesus that we are all integral parts of the body that is the church or our Lord Jesus Christ. We should overcome and resist the urge to argue, gossip, etc...because it only serves to divide us instead of uniting us.

Paul wrote to the church @ Philippi in appreciation of their encouragement to him. He wrote of his "Joy" in serving the Lord in spite of the circumstances or difficulties facing him - he wrote them while in prison.

The people of God need to be discerning to what is going on in their churches - Paul didn't stand by idly and neither did Christ.

I don't go to FBC, but if I saw my church headed in this direction, I would be greatly concerned and get more and more in the word to see what the scriptures have to say.

Be discerning people @ FBCJax - many of you have had the fortune of sitting under some of the finest men of God. Pastors who preached Christ, the love of Christ, the Cross, the Blood, Jesus Saves and much much more...be discerning.

God Bless You.

Anonymous said...

As Anon 5:47, I will stand corrected if the number of terminations at BBC is less than reported. As of this week, the number is lower but more terminations are expected. Seems the firings were cut back once the information went public.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure if Mac reminds me more of Jeremiah Wright or Joe Biden. Its 50/50.

Anonymous said...

Joe Biden without the hair plugs.

Dwight said...

I don't know if God caused or did not cause the economic downward turn.

I have a difficult time saying Mac got it wrong unless I can show fact he got it wrong. If his belief of what is truth is different than mine on a subject I want to be able to find the truth before I pronounce another person wrong.

My question to any of you is: If Mac is wrong on this what is the truth?

I'll make a deal, if you show the truth here (which is needed to contradict the non-truth you claim Mac is spewing) I'll be glad to make contact with Mac and see what he says. I'll also report back.

Dwight

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Dwight - you're missing the point.

- no man can know whether this was caused by God. I myself believe it was caused by men and liberal policies. But God is God, and maybe he used them to do this although I doubt it.

- Mac spoke first person, he spoke for God, expressing 100% certainty. "God says.." is how Mac wrapped up his idea. What arrogance to tell me exactly what God says, when its not coming out of the Bible! I mean this should have people running for the exits, when a puffed up preacher tells us what God says in first person and speaks as though he speaks on behalf of God on one of the most important, troubling issues of our day. This is heresy. I mean I expect this sort of thing from Rod Parsley and maybe the fat guy down in Texas...but from a Baptist preacher?

- He spent a total of about 6 minutes embelleshing this idea. Not just a passing thought, or diarrhea of the mouth...not just a Joe Biden moment. This was a sermon he gave after a 2 week vacation, and he delivered a 6 minute theatric performance to show, starting with Clinton and Lewinsky, that God has actively been working to bring about "these things" - referring to 9/11, Katrina, and our current economic mess.

- And he used no scripture to show us that God did these things. I hardly think one can take the story of Hosea and Gomer from the OT and then conclusively say "See, because of how Hosea treated Gomer to get her to wake up, therefore, conclusively, God says 'I've been working all along behind the scenes to cause Katrina, raise Gas prices on you Americans, and to cause the stock market to crash'".

Unless God spoke directly to Mac in a vision, or maybe Mac rode another camel while in Italy and God spoke to him...that was a terrible, terrible sermon that borders on heresy.

Thy Peace said...

The last two posts of Jim Smyrl are very clear. I could easily understand them.

Is it possible Jim Smyrl is reading this blog? Or someone is passing the digested version to him?

In any case, Jim, if you are getting this blog contents to you ... Here are some more comments for you:

- Why don't you open up your comments on your blog, so we can make comments?
- Please allow Anonymous comments. Don't worry. We won't beat you up. Though in the beginning, it might be rough. With patience and love on both your side and our side, we can communicate. How about that?

Come on fbcjax, step in to 21st century. Anonymous comment posters are not heretics or evil people.

Jim, you are a young person, surely you can deal with all these questions being put against the fbcjax leadership.

I also want to ask you theological questions. At least that is my main motivation. I would like to learn what you are saying. While we are at it, you can probably dumb down your english, which you are already doing. Great job, now we can understand you.
---------------------------
Also if readers are interested in voting for the greatest man to have lived in the 20th century, head over to Pastor Wade's blog to vote:

The Greatest Man of the 20th Century Is Who?

Junkster said...

Dwight,
Read my comment at 2:23 yesterday. Watchdog may disagree, but I believe the point is not that our current ecomonic problems are or are not a result of God's judgment. The problem is when someone dogmatically assets as truth something not specifically revealed by God. Better to focus on what He has revealed as certain in His Word than to speculate. Unless Mac is prepared to state that He is a prophet of God who has received direct revelation from God about this matter, He ought not state as fact what God has not stated as fact.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I agree 100%, Junkster.

Anonymous said...

Isaiah 45:7

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Thy Peace - it is beneath Smyrl to have to communicate to you on any matters. He doesn't care what you have to say. You don't have seminary training, you don't know Greek. He has disdain for anyone who questions the pastor. Its been a sorry sight to see a preacher with such promise link his wagon to the Mac Brunson train wreck. So no, there will absolutely not be any commenting on his blog, and certainly no anonymous blogging.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Thanks Anon.

That scripture proves it.

God is actively trying to harm "us Americans" by getting gas prices high, and causing our economy to crash.

Label his sermon:

"That Jacksonville May Fear Christ - Part 2"

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

If Mac is right, that God is the author of these disasters...can we say that God was behind the scenes getting Bob Grey to lure children into his office for his molestation sessions? We thought it the evil of mankind, but maybe in reality it was God's doing, to try to wake up that church.

Maybe Darrell Gilyard - he was just a tool in God's hand to bring destruction to many lives. I thought Gilyard was moved by the devil, but after hearing Mac maybe we need to consider that it was all God's doing. Not the permissive will of God, but it was God actively working to bring Gilyard's abuse. What a mighty God we serve!

And of course, we can't forget about the Catholic church, can we? All of their pedophile priests exposed and still un-exposed...that was God, right? He was trying to get Americ'a attention.

You can see how sick is Mac's logic to say that God is the one who causes, that works to bring about these disasters.

Preach on brother Mac! We'll be waiting for your next performance!

sunnysummy242 said...

I am amazed by almost all of the comments I am reading on here. I can hardly believe these are my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ writing such garbage about a man of God. Yes, Mac Brunson is a man of God. These postings are horrible. These are terrible awful things to write about someone. I am disgusted to think that there is someone sitting in FBC on Sunday morning who could possibly come home Sunday afternoon and blog these kinds of things. Those who do so are doing nothing but playing a part on Sunday. I understand some do not like the new direction Mac is taking with the church. I have two words for you "GET OUT." I know the comeback to this will be something to the effect that this is your church and why should you have to leave and this is a righteous fight.... It does not matter what excuse you come up with. The fact of the matter is that when you hate a job, you leave it. If you join a club but lose intrest in the club, you leave it. If you are playing a sport that you no longer enjoy, you leave it. There are hundreds of churches around Jacksonville. Please do not pretend to be a prisoner to FBC. No one holds a gun to your head forcing you to come in every weekend. Please go find another church and complain at that one for I am quite certain that it will not live up to your high standards either.
I was there the day they voted Mac in and I did not hear one of you stand up and reject his nomination.
I will end with this last thought. The main vibe being projected is that you stick around and blast your profanities about this church and it's pastor for the good of the church and to correct the errors of Dr Mac. In the same breath you will not come forward and go public with your identies for fear that you will be "silenced" by the church and asked to leave. I question you as to what impact you possibly think you are having by being so cowardly? I want to make the obvious point that no one listens to a coward. No one cares what a coward thinks. No one heavily involved at FBC reads this blog and thinks "Hmmm, Watchdog and these others have a point, I think we will change for him." All of the screaming and whining and blasphemy in the world will not change anything. I know this because nothing has changed since you started this website. If you think this "thing" causes Mac to stop and worry at night-you couldn't be further from the truth. Mac is focused. The church is focused. I pray some day that one day you will lose your focus on yourself and return it back to the things of God.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Nope.

I won't get out.

You will have to vote me out.

And I will continue to blog.

In the meanwhile, more people will vote with their pocketbook and hope that God intervenes.

But, maybe this is all God working behind the scenes to teach us all a lesson.

Anonymous said...

sunnysummer - the pastor is abusing his position as pastor. Most everyone agrees with you and has left like you suggest. One hasn't. So don't worry about it. Be glad there is only one blog and not 100. The other 99 potential bloggers agree with you and have left already. One stayed to blog about the abuses. No big deal. Relax a little bit will you.

And by what definition do you say with such certainty that "Mac is God's man?" He may be. But no more so than any other staff male, or male sunday school teacher, or male member or male christian. He simply was recruited and hired to serve in the position of senior pastor. That does not make him anymore "God's man" then a humble teacher of the bible in Sunday School. If you think otherwise, your eyes have been taken off of Jesus and put onto man.

And you are correct about Mac not worrying about this blog. He is focused...on the continued abuses. Nothing, I mean nothing, will wake him, or his "followers" up. On that we can agree. He stays focused on building his brand and abusing his position to enrich himself. And the bloggers stay focused on him. You are wrong to say no one cares about a coward. Just look at the live feed and all those all over the country that read this blog EVERY DAY.

And yes, I was there and stood up for mac to be our pastor. I trusted him and was fully behind him. But after six months of abuses began to raise some eyebrows, I had a few concerns and questions about some of those things. He then chose to use heavy handed tactics to get rid of those like me who saw concerns. He refused to respond to face to face questions and emails. Ultimately, he was given a choice. Respond to my questions via private email, man to man..or HIM be a coward and bully me from the pulpit, thereby inviting me to blog about him if I didn't like it. So I blog. Now he whines about it and so do people like you. Get over it. I will blog here in perpetuity. And if this blog ceases to function, I will start my own, use an actual web page, promote my blog in the newspaper and other pages and blog, blog, blog. The fat, bald, charlatan wanted it this way. And now he will reap what he has sown.

But, I can't speak for the watchdog. Those are just MY humble thoughts.

Anonymous said...

Or maybe the WD is just an idiot.

Anonymous said...

Sunnysummer - "the church is focused?" On what? Trips to Europe, Gatlinburg, the A-group, what people wear, God causing our economy to fail, trying to raise money for Jewish hospitals that perform abortions, employing the pastor's newlywed son, firing faithful staffers, letting buildings decay for 3 years, writing books, preaching circuits, wedding receptions for Trey Brunson, remodeling Children's building space for luxury office suites where Mac and Honey can bring their dogs and be separated from the rest of the lowly staff, criticize his congregation, meet with Maurilio, and collect change for the poor and hungry and homeless, and offend the mayor's office with his fancy suit while he blows a $15 million dollar budget every year on himself and the church while doing nothing for those he steps over on his way into work. Do you think Jesus will defend him as quickly as you do? Is Mac focused on what matters to Jesus? Please read your New Testament before answering. Thanks.

Thy Peace said...

The cause of this blog is Pastor Mac. Only he can end this blog. He has to become humble and elevate Jesus Christ as Our Lord and him [Pastor Mac] become a humble servant leader.

All these gripes and complaints, could have ended long time ago, if he [Pastor Mac] understood something about humility.

From what I can observe, Pastor Mac and his supporters do read this blog daily. They may not agree with it, but they do read it.

I would only encourage, commentators who want WD to do the Christian thing, ask Pastor Mac to do the Christian thing. Ask Pastor Mac to get on this blog and interact with bloggers.

Anonymous said...

Good one anon. "Maybe the Watchdog is just an idiot." Let's hope that is the only problem down there at the church and all the other things blogged about here are all false. None of it ever happened and Mac never said or did any of those things written about here. Yeah, I like that idea. Let me just stick my head in the sand, write mac a check for at least 10% of my gross income and make up my mind the WD is an idiot. Life is good. Now Mac and Honey can book that next vacation and start on that next book deal.

Anonymous said...

The people on this blog who have issues with the pastor and the direction of the church need to handle things the biblical way.

I do not find anonymous blogging anywhere in the Bible as an appropiate means for resolving conflict among believers.

The dissenters say they have no choice but to blog. You know what I say to that? BS.

Pastor Brunson stands in front of the congregation during the invitation after every sermon he preaches. Here's what you dissenters need to do. While he is standing there, walk up to him and quietly tell him that you have some concerns and questions about some things and that you would like to resolve things the biblical way instead of blogging anonymously. Tell him that you are trying to make things right between the two of you.

Anonymous emails do nothing and are of no use. I have personally spoke with a staff member about this blog and we had a real, genuine conversation. It wasn't the kind the Watchdog wants you to think.

Go about the Biblical way people and you'll surprised at what God can do.

Anonymous said...

Sunnysummer 242: You know what is said about people that wear blinders. They tend to walk out in front of trucks and trains. You might want to remove yours. The answer to us "voting" Mac in is this. No one knew anything about Mac before he came here, other than he was from FBCD. We heard him preach once in a pastors conference. The vote was a set-up job. There was no chance to object, ask questions from the congregation, or to in anyway voice an opinion. It was l,2,3, vote yes. No one else was suggested. We had no one else to choose from. We were not consulted in any way. That was it. Definitely NOT democracy in action. It had been predetermined by a few (Vines, SBC, trustees, pulpit selection comm.) that this would be our preacher. I believe all of this group failed this church and hold partial responsability for the division we have today. And as such, all we are ASKED for today is blind obedience and our money.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

OF COURSE! WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF IT!

The solution is for us all to go up at the invitation, and whisper in his ear (assuming you get past his body guard):

"Pssst....hey Mac...why the heck did you spend money on your TV gig, and on the school, and your satellite idea and Maurilio's consulting...rather than repairing the roof of our now soggy preschool building? Pray about it, and I'll come back up next Sunday and you can whisper in MY ear your answer OK?"

And then return to your seat.

Anonymous said...

sunnysummy242

If you do not believe a group of concerned individuals cannot be effective to hold a pastor accountable, I suggest you research carefully what happened to Pastor Jerry Sutton. His tenure of 21 years ended and financial records made available to those who continually asked for transparency in his ministry.

Your comment, "no one cares what a coward says." Then post your real name and identity!

You further said FBC is focused; yes it surely is, but is the focus godly and pleasing to God.

Your suggestion that one should leave or get on board is most revealing of immaturity and myopic vision. Those you call screamers and whiners will have a clear conscious when asked by God what did they do to truly further the kingdom to ensure leadership at FBC based their administration and leadership on magnifying a holy spirit full of grace and kindness, and a pulpit pleasing to Him.

If you are so displeased with this blog, do as you recommended to WD, leave!! Find another venue that will appreciate your demagogy and disregard of knowing what is going on behind the scenes, not the surface. Good luck.

oc said...

"It does not matter what excuse you come up with. The fact of the matter is that when you hate a job, you leave it. If you join a club but lose intrest in the club, you leave it. If you are playing a sport that you no longer enjoy, you leave it. There are hundreds of churches around Jacksonville. Please do not pretend to be a prisoner to FBC. No one holds a gun to your head forcing you to come in every weekend. Please go find another church and complain at that one for I am quite certain that it will not live up to your high standards either."

There is not real solid reasoning there. Seems a bit weak and worldly.
If you get tired of something, quit. If you don't like it, quit.
If it isn't working like you want it to, quit. Sounds like pop-psychology from a day-time talk show. Yes, I can understand that if a club doesn't interest you anymore, quitting may be the right thing to do. I understand that if a sport doesn't interest you anymore, quitting may be the right thing to do. But we are not talking about a club. We are talking about church. Does this quitter attitude apply to one's spouse and family too? If you are tired of them, there are hundreds of possibilities to change spouses out there. How far do you ride the pseudo-wisdom out?

Maybe the problem is that some consider church as nothing more than some kind of social club and less than a marriage. To those I would request that they fall down on their knees and pray for a right attitude towards the Bride whom Jesus died for.

And no, not everyone leaves a job they hate. Sometimes others are counting on him not to.

Just sayin'.
oc.

oc said...

"OF COURSE! WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF IT!

The solution is for us all to go up at the invitation, and whisper in his ear (assuming you get past his body guard):

"Pssst....hey Mac...why the heck did you spend money on your TV gig, and on the school, and your satellite idea and Maurilio's consulting...rather than repairing the roof of our now soggy preschool building? Pray about it, and I'll come back up next Sunday and you can whisper in MY ear your answer OK?"

And then return to your seat."


Watchdog,

LOL!!!

Thy Peace said...

I have couple of questions:

- Are the body guards, the people with ear pieces? Those beefy looking people, are they the body guards who are in the front row?

- Why do LOT of people, entire families chew chewing gum in the church? They do this even while they are singing. Is this a fbcjax thing? or jax thing?

Curious. Thanks for the answers.

oc said...

Anon 2:01 said,

"I do not find anonymous blogging anywhere in the Bible as an appropiate means for resolving conflict among believers."


Gee anon, I don't find driving an automobile anywhere in the Bible as an appropriate means for getting to church. I'm sure you don't drive there. Reckon the Amish have gotten it right?


"Anonymous emails do nothing and are of no use. I have personally spoke with a staff member about this blog and we had a real, genuine conversation. It wasn't the kind the Watchdog wants you to think."

Well inform us then, so we can dispense with this blog. And why don't they respond to anonymous emails? Isn't there a real person behind that email? A person that Jesus died for? And who is this "staff member" you have personally spoken to and what did they say?




"Go about the Biblical way people and you'll surprised at what God can do."

Uh huh.


Just sayin'.
oc.

sunnysummy242 said...

In my last post, I was not encouraging people to leave spouses or making light of church membership. A church is a sacred place. Your membership to that church is a sacred thing. But when something is toxic, it must be removed. Please tell me-when a team memeber at work is constantly complaining about the boss, the way the buisness is organized, the manner in which things are performed-do people want to be around that person? Does that person do ANYTHING to encourage fellow workers? Does that person do ANYTHING to make the company a better place. Whether that person thinks they are right in their thinking, they will eventually be fired or quit that job(which is what the fellow team members are hoping for) OR they will stay and have a change of attitude. I still stand firm that you a mere coward and an actor when you are walking the halls of FBC. There are proper ways to have your voice heard at church. Walking up to Mac in the middle of the invitation is a lousy and flimsy excuse for your feeling "helpless." God looks at things 2 ways-are you hurting or helping the things of Christ? You may argue that Mac is hurting the ways of Christ. I argue that you do nothing but the same by this blog. I shutter to think of those reading this who are non-believers. Please take YOUR blinders off, swallow your pride and ask yourself what this makes Christians look like to an outside world... The words that describe most of these bloggers on here could be; "back-stabbing", "selfish", "hate-filled", "liars." It does sadden me to think this is what others will think. And that IS what they think. I cannot for the life of me understand why you choose to pretend like you are a church memeber and follower of Christ yet write these things that you write. You people spin things in an unblievable manner. Reminds me a bit of the way Obama spins his lines and words into the way he wants to be conveyed. You will spin Mac's words and his income and they way he conducts the church into your negative forms. I charge that this church is not being run the way it is normally run and this bothers you. Well, times are changing. The church still stands on the word of God but it is time that it's methods of outreach change. It is time to reach out to other churches and for our church to reach out to the community. All of these "trips" are missions trips or ways for our church members to grow and spend times with fellow believers. It is impossible to touch upon every insult that you have thrown at Mac so I have just touched on a few. i pray that each and every one of you enjoy church on Sunday. Please enjoy sitting there in that pew. Please enjoy knowing that your hypocritical self is seated next to someone who truly wants to be in God's house. Enjoy your role-playing Sunday morning. Curtain rises at 10:20. *And a side note-I put my name at the end of my last blog-Watchdog erased it. I suppose he did so before he "approved" it to be posted. So I say again..this is Leeann Summerford, signing off.

oc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Thy Peace said...

Leeann Summerford: Are you this Leeann Summerford?

A Zogby Interactive poll this summer found 83 percent thought texting while driving should be illegal. But among respondents 18 to 24, the support for a ban dropped to 48 percent. That age group also was most likely to text while driving - 66 percent of them had done so, compared to 16 percent of cell phone owners overall. The nationwide poll of 2,246 adults had a margin of error of 2.1 percent.

Jacksonville resident Leeann Summerford, 22, said she would welcome technological advances such as voice-activated devices, but not more government regulation.

She said a ban on texting while driving is a "horrible idea."

She said it takes only a few seconds to read a text message and then shoot back a five-word response. She doesn't text in heavy traffic or bad weather. In contrast, cell phone calls can go on for several minutes, and people also spend more time eating in cars than it takes for a text message, she said.

"How far are you going to take it?" she said of restrictions on what drivers can legally do.

The crackdown also has stimulated research aimed at making technology more driver-friendly. In the car of the future, a driver could keep both hands on the wheel while giving verbal commands to operate communications devices, even dictating e-mails and text messages.


HAZARDOUS TO YOUR COMMUTE?

--------------------------
I do not agree with your comments. And it looks like Barack Obama will win the election. Of course, I do not agree with Barack Obama either.

Anonymous said...

Hey Leeann,

At the young age of 22/23, you seem to be trying to make a name for yourself via Facebook and other venues. You used the local Jax. news to tell folks you believe texting while driving is o.k.

You are an accident waiting to happen.

Trey surely is a friend and solicited your assistance in trying to vilify WD.

You are young, arrogant and quite immature. Grow up and come back to post when you are wiser and know what you are talking about. Until then, stick to the Facebook.

oc said...

Well Sunny, It's good to know that you did not mean to run your logic out to any conclusion. I'm really glad you have clarified things you said in your previous post. But I will continue to say that church is not a business and should not be run that way. Neither should the relationships within bear resemblence to the cut throat business world. But it is good to see you have backed down off that a bit in your most recent post. And yes I guess I will try to enjoy my hypocritical self as I sit in my comfortable pew not even feeling guilty about the sacrifice you must be making for the Kingdom.
Just sayin'.
oc.

Anonymous said...

To all those that are immature and have nothing with which to contradict WD. Church today is like a lot of corp's. in America. Its failing due to a lack of good leadership. God had nothing to do with 9/11, slide in stock market or the war in Iraq. All of these were caused by bad leaders who were never concerned with anyone other than themselves. 9/11 was caused by hateful Islamic terrorist: that simple. Stock market slide caused by leaders in house and senate (no oversight) of Freddie or Fannie. Millions of illegal aliens were borrowing money on houses and never intended to live in them long or pay for them: that simple. War in Iraq was also caused by Islamic terrorist name Saddam Hussein. America is headed for disaster. Most people have blinders regarding the truth. The truth is the Bible. People tend to ignore whats written in it. You do not have to find an old testament fact to associate with 2008. We have reaped what we have sown:

1. Murdering the unborn
2. Lack of capital punishment
3. Election of socialists in all political areas ( state, and local government bodies). A Congress defined by greed. Totally unresponsive to the will of the people they are elected to serve.
4. School system is worse now than ever before.
5. Churches are nothing more than social clubs
6. Women are acting more like men
7. Men are acting more like women
8. Greed is national sickness, whose symptoms afflict everyone.
9. No one cares about you not your employer, not your church, not your country.
10.People are still going to movies and spending millions on them trying to escape reality
11.Auto industry about to collapse
12.Small businesses closing by the thousands
13.People killing each other in record numbers
14.Illegal aliens are in the millions and no one is doing anything about it.
15. 40% of criminals in Ca. are illegals
16. Mid east is making BILLIONS off the USA while congress sleeps and collects its under the table profits
17.Half of America is willing to put in a new President who hasn't a clue of the job.
18.You finish the list.

We are in a mess because the people would have it their way. These disasters have absolutely nothing to do with GOD. Man creates his own problems. God has allowed man FREE WILL. Just like HE will not force Himself on individuals. They must choose Him and accept His Son Jesus Christ in order to be saved. They must CHOOSE. Free will has gotten man where he is today.

oc said...

I'm really looking forward to Dwight's and anon 2:01's briefing to this blog reporting their conference with the higher ups. They said they can do it, and give the impression that this will be no problem to get this all set up, so let's see what happens.

Anonymous said...

Anon.6:32

AMEN, AMEN AND AMEN