"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Saturday, July 16, 2011

Pastor and Israeli Government Official Hawking Holy Land Trips at FBC Jax 2011 Pastor's Conference



"On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple courts and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves, and would not allow anyone to carry merchandise through the temple courts." Mark 11:15-16
----------------------------
I have blogged many times here about the disgrace of pastors using their church's resources to market their special trips to the Holy Land, or cruises down the Danube or on the Mediterranean. I called for pastors to cease the trips for a couple of years during these tough economic times.

But it is full steam ahead - pastors are still using their church resources and their celebrity status to market these trips to their worshipers. Some pastors benefit financially as they are incented by the travel company based on volume. Some take advantage of free introductory trips to Israel so long as they promise to bring 15 or more of their church members to Israel within a year. Some pastors will take their church media personnel and equipment to videotape the trip for future marketing, showing the plebe back home what they missed.

Apparently one of the sponsors of the 2011 FBC Jax Pastor's Conference was the Israel Ministry of Tourism - an agency of the Israeli government according to their website. Their Commissioner for Tourism, Haim Gutin (man on the right in photo), was given the microphone by Mac on the eve of the final night of the conference before James Merritt preached, to tell the pastors that they all need to lead groups to Israel to walk where Jesus walked. Here is part of Haim's message:
"How many of you have been in Israel [show of hands]. Quite a few. But not enough, not enough....Israel, the holy land, I know this land is dear to you as it is dear to me. And I know that you love the land as I love my land. But in order to show your love, you have to be there, to walk where Jesus walked, to walk in his footsteps...but to come every few years to Israel is to show to the people of Israel that we are the best friends. Israel...is the place where Jesus was born and ministered."
This is an example of why eventually the tax exempt status of churches will someday be a thing of the past. Consider what is going on here: FBC Jax sells tickets to their pastor's conference to visiting pastors. Then, they also sell "promotions packages" at their conferences that allows an organization to purchase platform time within the house of worship. The state of Israel buys one of these packages, and flies in their commissioner of tourism - who presumably does not share the same faith as the pastors - to tell them they must come with their church members to "walk where Jesus walked" as an act of love toward Israel.

More from Haim:
"About 700,000 tourists came from the United States [last year]. It's a big number. And I would like that this number be by the end of this year 1 million tourists from the United States, and I need your help. So please, stand up, stand up. Feel free, stand up. And let's pledge together: Next Year in Jerusalem! Thank you!"
Yes, pastors, FBC Jax sold access to your eyes and ears to the state of Israel, so their minister of tourism could pander to you and get you to pledge to bring your sheep over to walk where Jesus walked.

And if that wasn't cheesy enough, a representative of the Land of Promise Foundation (man on the left in picture above) was on hand to tell the pastors how their churches can do a "fund raiser" to plant trees in Israel - and he quoted scripture to explain how people will be blessed if they plant a tree in the Holy Land. The Land of Promise Foundation raises money for trees, fire prevention, and helping alleviate the water crisis in Israel. How wonderful that FBC Jax is on the cutting edge of ministry, doing their part to raise funds to alleviate the tree and water crisis in Israel.

At least during the Israeli fund raiser of 2007 hosted by the Souds, the funds were supposedly being raised for an Israeli hospital.

Now First Baptist is in the business of hawking Israeli vacations and trees for the Holy Land.

79 comments:

Anonymous said...

Mac Brunson should just hook up with Bruce Peterson (Dallas, Texas) and start their own tour trips. They'd make good companions and make a lot of money!

Traveling to foreign countries is Mac's real love. Here it is August & we're already starting the advertisement.
Are we paying for guest speakers or will John Sullivan be the goat speaker.

Only the elite from FBCJ join the Brunson's - the rest are Trey's friends & old cronies from Texas! Been there - done that - never again!

former pastor said...

Has anybody ever asked Jerry Vines what he thinks of all this!

WishIhadknown said...

There is nothing “Holy” about Israel it is just another spot on the globe.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

WishIHadKnown - now that is what is called "throwing down the gauntlet". Them's is fighting words!!

:)

I agree, it is not Holy.

As I have said before, you can't follow Jesus' footsteps there, because he isn't there anymore.

I think he is over here, where we already are. But what a thrill it must be to pastors to actually get people to follow you over to another country so you can show them where Jesus walked.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

If I was a pastor I would feel duped - that FBC Jax accepted cash money from these jokers to give them stage time to sell their wares. OK, let them have a table out in the lobby, but to have Mac shamelessly plug their interests, and hand the mike to them in exchange for $$$, it is taking advantage of the pastors who came.

But Haim knows how gullible Christians are - he used all the tag lines "walk where Jesus walked", "where Jesus was born and minsitered"....and he got them to stand up for his little pledge. He knows his audience for sure.

Long Time FBC Jax Member said...

Watchdog-

Keep in mind, Mac Brunson is the pastor who expanded the stage and lobby areas, taking the JESUS plaque out of the worship service, and placing it on the lobby with the tables of the money changers.

And I wonder if FBC Jax will be hosting a Pastor's Conference in 2012? We may not have a Pastor if Mac is asked to step down.....

Worse and worse !!!

Vines Watchdawg said...

"Has anybody ever asked Jerry Vines what he thinks of all this!"

Vines is a PHONY! Always was and always will be!! Vines was and always is about VINES!!!

He road the Lindsey coat tails to his pastorate at FBCJ. Without Lindsey, Vines would be just another footnote in history to preachers in the ministry.

Very Long Time FBC Jax Member said...

"Keep in mind, Mac Brunson is the pastor who expanded the stage and lobby areas, taking the JESUS plaque out of the worship service, and placing it on the lobby with the tables of the money changers."

Frankly, the stage needed expanding for years. So did the Lobby as FBCJ never had a lobby at all, just a wide hallway which the majority of us thought could be rectified.

The permanent nature of the plaque was a major problem for modification for different events.

I am thankful that the fellowship stepped up to the plate and did the modifications, not to mention the mods for us seniors.

WishIhadknown said...

Do I dare poke the bear some more and declare there are no Holy men but Jesus?
Or do I can I add that referring to Israel as “Holy” is making it a high place and probably akin to idolatry?

Sharon said...

This is bizarre. Plus I agree that it's insulting to the room full of pastors sitting there, who, in politeness must sit through this type of thing. But then to have the audience manipulation used on them too-everybody stand up and repeat after me. Can you imagine Christians getting up in front at a Jewish synagogue and doing the same thing? Absurd and insulting.

And to make it even more absurd, this man doesn't even believe the most basic tenet of Christianity-that Jesus was the messiah. But he's up there saying, come and walk in Jesus's footsteps. It's comical really. Nobody would believe this happened if you hadn't shown it on video.

I had sort of a similar feeling recently when I went on a Sunday to tour an Amish homestead. It's a tourist thing, and I find the Amish interesting. But the people who run the tourist place are not Amish. And the Amish weren't there because they don't work on Sundays. It just gave me a weird feeling. Didn't seem right somehow.

Sharon said...

I think the weird feeling was that these non-Amish were making money off the Amish way of life and religion, and they were doing it by working on a Sunday, which the Amish are opposed to.

This is the same thing-an outsider making money off a different religious group.

Anonymous said...

"Very Long Time FBC Jax member". As John MAcArthur recently said on his radio show "A stage is for PERFORMING, a pulpit is for PREACHING". Now, you tell me who drew a larger audience, Homer Lindsay Jr. who PREACHED behind a large pulpit with a small stage or Mac Brunson who PERFORMS on a large stage with a small pulpit. You tell me why we had to build a 10,000 seat auditorium that was packed and overflowing during Pastors Conferances 1994-2005 but 2006-2011 the crowds have been shrinking and shrinking. Could it be because of the person who is now the pastor of this church who put his son in charge of the Pastors Conferances.

Very Long Time FBC Jax Member said...

"You tell me why we had to build a 10,000 seat auditorium that was packed and overflowing during Pastors Conferances 1994-2005 but 2006-2011 the crowds have been shrinking and shrinking. Could it be because of the person who is now the pastor of this church who put his son in charge of the Pastors Conferances."

NOPE! You are all wrong. Just look at churches all across northeast Florida, and across America, and you will notice the same trends. The same is even true at Tom's church-Westside Baptist, still a great fellowship with a great history.

When the PC was created there was nothing out there like that for pastors. It actually started to dwindle after Dr. Lindsey passed. Not because of him but because there were many more opportunities for other conferences around the country for pastors.

AS far as large sanctuaries go most fellowships have realized that they can do more with less and that church model has long since disappeared in most conservative churches.

I like and respect John MacArthur, but the pulpit is that little device in the middle of the stage. They are two different functions. If you are truly a member of FBCJ you would know that the stage size was influenced not by the pastors, but the music ministry and the need for space to do what they do best.

As far as the crowds shrinking, that started when Dr. Vines became the only pastor after Dr. Lindsey's death. I can also tell you that in my business travels and visiting other well known fellowships around the country that the same things you think are a problem because of Mac Brunson are happening all over the country.

I think that peoples lives have just become a extremely complex and overly busy and they do not see the need to be in "church" every time that the doors are open. Whether that is good or bad I will leave it up to the pundents on this and other venues to pontificate on.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Sharon - good point. It would be like a Baptist from New York coming to talk to an LDS church and telling them "Come to New York, where Joseph Smith walked. See where he found the golden tablets..." Would never happen in a million years.

But a Jew coming to tell Baptist mininsters "Come see where Jesus walked"....comical, really.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

VLTMFBC: are the dwindling crowds happening at Stovall Weems' church? Are members leaving Westside Baptist Church?

What about FBC Dallas? What about Perry Nobles' church?

I guess I just don't see the trend "all over the country" that you do.

I do agree with you the stage renovation looks great and is very, very functional.

Anonymous said...

Don't know about Perry Nobles' church, but FBC Dallas now has about half the attendance as were coming just before the Jeffress regime began. It has experienced steady decline since fall 2007.

The church boasts 13 or 14,000 members. Pure myth. Probably numbers based on Pathway to Victory listenership.

Anonymous said...

Ya'll know that Brunson believes that Christians are only completed Jews.

The charlatan has gone over the edge.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:35,

Brunson does not keep the Jew/Gentile distinction?? Gentile Christians are completed Jews??

Bojac said...

Baptists have always been into cointing nickels and noses. The more noses counted the more nickels the church might recieve. Now, because nickels arn't coming in as some would like we have to emphasis the spurius tithing rule. Israel is a nice place to visit,but so is Paris and Spain. It seems to me we have some serious ulterior motive here.

Anonymous said...

I've got an easy answer for you Tom. Don't go to Israel! Don't go with any pastor at any point!

See, that was so easy wasn't it?

There are some that will want to go, they know that the pastor and his wife will go for free, they will want to walk in the places where Jesus walked and see the nation and the battlegrounds and the temple mount and the Mt of Olives. Let them! You don't have to go, or approve, or blog about it.

I'll stick with me original statement about you - - you are the biggest cry baby I have read on any blog, ever! Waa! Waa!

Jason

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Jason - you don't get it, do you?

I don't care if you are me or anyone or the pastor goes to Israel. I don't care WHO goes with the pastor to Israel.

The entire point of this post is that advertising it, and making money off the hawking of trips to Israel has no place in the church.

That is my view. You can disagree with that view, fine. But this is not crying about anything. Pointing out the hypocrisy of having in a Jew to speak to Christians about where Jesus walked, and how they should show their love to Jews by bringing their church members over. It is pandering and commercialization in the church sanctuary.

No crying here, pal, rejoicing all the way, but not afraid to call out the abuses as I seem them.

Perhaps you are the crybaby, you can't stand honest criticism, and you can't even understand the basis of the argument being made.

Anonymous said...

Jason-

I have an easy solution for you - stop reading Tom's articles if you believe he's such a crybaby. You're the one who comes across as a whiner with comments like that.

Anonymous said...

Pastors have been taking church members and friends on Holy Land tours since the end of WW Two. The pace really picked-up following the 1967 June War. Since that time Evangelical pastors have become unofficial ambassadors for the State of Israel and pawns of that government. For some unholy reason, they have concluded that the current State of Israel is related to the Jewish state prior to the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem (cir. 70 AD). They have become Israel's strongest supporters. This is not about faith and "following in Jesus' steps." It is about politics, money and influence. Jesus doesn't live there anymore.

Anonymous said...

Here's Bellevue Baptist,
pastor Steve Gaines saying:
don't mess with Israel

So be careful what you say here.....

Anonymous said...

I do wonder about this from another perspective. Can people afford this trip AND to tithe?

it seems kind of cruel to promote this as a holiness thing when most people simply cannot afford it. Seems Mac has lost touch with that fact.

It is blatent consumerism. Very worldly.

Anonymous said...

Jason,I don't think you can really know Jesus as well unless you to the Holy Land with your pastor. Pony up.

Anonymous said...

It is blatent consumerism. Very worldly.


Hear! Hear! Preach it !!

William said...

Blatant consumerism would be the correct description and one cannot ignore that in addition to the Israel trips, standard fare for many years now, pastors are leading trips to many other destinations. Then there are the Bible study cruises.

As a pastor, I have led a few trips, although not to Israel, and don't have a problem with it...if:

1. The trips aren't too frequent.

2. The pastor discloses that he will be making so much per person on the thing. The idea of taking a paycheck from your congregation and on top of that to pocket money from them on these trips is questionable. But if you're going to do it, say so. Tell the church that you make a little money on these trips.

3. The pastor doesn't come back and start every sermon with "When I was in Israel..."

Anonymous said...

Its funny how Tom and the folks on here tell someone with a different opinion that if you don't like this blog, then don't read it. Doesn't the same apply to you? If you don't like what a certain church or pastor does, then don't go to that church. Seems only fair to me and if you don't go there, then don't gripe on a blog about what they are doing or how their church is run.

A little bit of hypocrisy going on here.

Anonymous said...

The pastor telling the members that he is making money off them. You have got to be kidding. It ain't gonna happen.

Anonymous said...

I bet "Pastor" Smyrl will do this to suppliment his "Bi-Vocational" salary.

Pastor Mac tithes 11% of everything he makes!

Anonymous said...

And all "Pastor Mac's" staff said...... AMEN !!

( Insert eye roll here )

Anonymous said...

anonny mus said somethin'like this:

....."If you don't like what a certain church or pastor does, then don't go to that church. Seems only fair to me and if you don't go there, then don't gripe on a blog about what they are doing or how their church is run."

A little bit of hypocrisy going on here.

HOw is it hypcrisy if you call out poor ethics in church leadership. EVen low breed politicians are supposed to be up front about their gifts and any contributions they receive.

What is hypocritical about it? This blog has a larger view of hte church and not your poor put-upon Mac. The larger issue is all the various trends among preachers and teachers that really don't cast a good light on the church or the gospel message.

Who needs all this funny business about getting a personal gain from your membership and Christians in general. You must recall by now, the money changers in the temple who profitted nicely from the members of the Jewish faith and youi must recall the reaction of Jesus when he saw it.

Were talking about gentle Jesus, meek and mild, but who went into a angry outcry about the exploitation. My house shall be called a house of prayer, not the merchandising of books, tapes, cruises or other social functions for the comfort of some.

So cupcake, show me the hypocrisy in what this blog and Tom are doing here. Are you just trolling or are you for serial? Yo, let me know.

Sharon said...

Are there any poor people at FBC Jax? The purpose of the church is, supposedly, to get the gospel out. What has a trip to Israel got to do with that purpose?

If I were a poor person or lower middle class person, newly born again, and I had started attending this church-what would start to dawn on me as I kept coming and hearing about people going on these trips? I think it would dawn on me that the churches priorities are becoming plain, right before my eyes, if I will but notice them.

I would then conclude that all the yelling and passion of the preacher about what people should care about for the kingdom of God-I should take all that with a HUGE grain of salt. It's all so very hypocritical, to me at least.

And it's not like the preacher is paying for poor people to go-he's actually making money, going for free, and going with only those who can afford such things. I think it's totally out of place with the whole gospel message that they claim to care about so very deeply.

Anonymous said...

'The entire point of this post is that advertising it, and making money off the hawking of trips to Israel has no place in the church.'

Can yo or anyone else tell us how much Brunson is making off this or other trips? That is the accusation, so can someone give a source that confirms this? If this can not be founded what do we really have, an advertisement that doesn't suit our taste.

Dog, you say you always want to show truth, so where is the truth in the accusation of Brunson making money? Not saying it ain't so but truth needs to be demonstrated by us if we are going to accuse.

Anonymous said...

Sharon: That was as eloquent of a post I have read on this board, and accurate. The leadership of this church is as corrupt as they come. Is Steve Edmonds, still following A.C. Soud around like a puppy dog, what was up with that? Birds of a feather flock together.

Anonymous said...

Can you imagine what a church would be like if all the bloggers on here were members? The preacher would never be able to do anything to please them and then they would turn on each other and devour themselves and their children. Typical Baptist behavior but at the same time they would keep telling themselves how righteous and pure they are.

Anonymous said...

I thing a lot of members post, and read this board! Go back into your hole troll.

Tom Rich said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I've not said Brunson makes money of these.

I have said some pastors have made lots and lots of money off of these trips.

I've also said that if he is not making money off of these trips, he should tell the congregation that he is not, since he is accountable to them and has decided to use their church website to market them.

The criticism here is aimed not so much on whether Brunson is making or is not making money off such trips, but that the advertising of such trips is done so brazenly, now to the point of selling marketing packages to the Israeli tourism ministry for them to come and tell pastors they need to take their church members to Israel to show their love for the country.

You critics really need to read better, or put your thinking caps on.

Anonymous said...

If all of what you people say is true about Brunson and FBCJ then why in the world would you ever go there or even mention his name? I can't understand people's preoccupation with corrupt preachers and non-functioning churches. Wouldn't it be better to focus on something good that strengthens the Kingdom of God?

Anonymous said...

Because, they tarnish the blood of Christ. People new in their faith need to be nurtured by example.

Anonymous said...

You don't focus a young believer on the tarnish. They would be much better served by focusing on the truth and Godly examples instead of always complaining, backbiting, and maligning other believers.

Anonymous said...

You just don't get it do you. Example, example, example. I hope your not one of the leaders.

Anonymous said...

How is telling the truth maligning the church. What is it you do not understand that Christ led by example, hence he drove the money changers from the temple. Should you be brave enough to do the same.

hopeandfaith said...

Some churches have become a buffet...just keep looking and you will find what you want. They have decided that what the church needs is to entertain, to be comfortable...to sing what is up on the screen....to hawk their pastor's books, give them the rare privilege of rubbing elbows with their pastor on cruises....most have never had a conversation with. Total authority in the pulpit....not a problem for some, but it's changing. Somehow, I think that what is happening in some of our churches today, begs to be esposed. Those charaltans like Benny Hinn and so many others have been given a free pass from Christians who will not speak out....People are being deceived by a host of supposed Shepherds. Speaking the truth, backed up biblically, and having the courage to stand for truth is the only way to change this culture.

WishIhadknown said...

To Hopeandfaith a hearty AMEN!

Anonymous said...

'I've not said Brunson makes money of these.'

But you did say.

'The entire point of this post is that advertising it, and making money off the hawking of trips to Israel has no place in the church. 9:07'

In a comment to your own post about FBCJ and Brunson hawking trips to Israel. What is one to think you are inferring?

You make the same strong inference in your October 22, 2010 blog entry.

Fess up, you are making these inferences to make others think Brunson is guilty. If not,then I have shown you what it looks like, do you think it wise to not be the bearer of truth but be the blogger of discrepancies?

I want truth, not speculation or inferences about others who may or may not be guilty of your accusations. If there are many other pastors out there getting these profits, call them out by name. Let's deal with the facts. It will be helpful to be a heard voice instead of a man crying wolf.

Anonymous said...

You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you on the head!

Anonymous said...

'You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you on the head!'

so what is the truth? Who is profiting off these trips? Plenty of accusations going on but where are the facts. At least I am asking for it, not just blindly following accusations.

Anonymous said...

The truth is a pastor should be beyond even the suspicion of impropriety. A pastor should not accept large donations from their congregations. If wealth is what they seek, they should have been wall street bankers, at least we know what they are. Jesus laughed at the wealthy. I believe, the pastor at FBC would be considered wealthy. I must have missed something, or I don't get what it is really about $$$$.

WishIhadknown said...

Ok, dog, the anon’s gotcha. You have to drop down on your knees and say a hundred hail Brunson’s and give a trip to Israel to a poor couple while wearing a hair shirt and flagellating yourself.

Good Greif! Talk about going out of the way to miss the point.

Anonymous said...

Whishihadknown: How about making some since with your post. You sound like a real winner, oops I mean winer to me.

Anonymous said...

Mac: Is that you?

Anonymous said...

Whishihadknown: Thats something A.C. Soud would do.

Anonymous said...

Is Steve Edmonds, still following A.C. Soud around like a puppy dog, what was up with that? Birds of a feather flock together.

July 18, 2011 7:35 AM

Can someone confirm is this really a truth or fiction statement. If so, unbelievable!

Anonymous said...

'Can someone confirm is this really a truth or fiction statement. If so, unbelievable!'

No, no one has to prove it is true. Conjecture is good enough to make our case and complain.

Anonymous said...

It's fact he used to be everywhere he was, just like a puppy dog!

Anonymous said...

How about when he was in the Athens Cafe, with several other prominent people plotting on how to get his puppy dog off the hook. I have no use for pedophiles or pedophile lovers.

Anonymous said...

"Can someone confirm is this really a truth or fiction statement. If so, unbelievable!"

Pure fiction.

As a former close personal friend, Steve knew he was had when the electronic evidence came out and that is when all of us cut ties with him.

Anonymous said...

Which part is fiction. Him following him around all the time, or the meeting in the Athens Cafe? Fiction it is not. There will be a lot more to tell about this pragmatist. No real love of Jesus, just false pride.

WishIhadknown said...

“Anonymous said...
Whishihadknown: How about making some since with your post. You sound like a real winner, oops I mean winer to me.

July 18, 2011 3:07 PM”

Have you ever heard, or in your case hurd, of a thing called spell check. You really should use it because you sure can’t spell your own.

sense not since as in what you don’t have.

whiner not winer as in what you come here to do to those of us with some sense

WishIhadknown said...

Sorry folks just not having a good day, I guess next I’ll be calling someone a sociopath.

Anonymous said...

Wishihadblown: The old use spell check. You can't spell rant. Your an idiot, did I spell idiot right. All the posts I've had you get on some word where I missed keys in hast. Your a chump. Did I spell chump right?

Anonymous said...

Whishihadblown: Your an idiot. Did I spell idiot right. Sometimes people get in a hurry, and hit wrong keys.

Anonymous said...

Sorry folks just not having a good day, I guess next I’ll be calling someone a sociopath.


Everyone has a bad day, just don’t let the bad spirits get you to down, I believe FBCJax believe this is what the lord would want, they seem to have a spiritual terror trap in their leadership.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon 10:53 says:

"Fess up, you are making these inferences to make others think Brunson is guilty. If not,then I have shown you what it looks like, do you think it wise to not be the bearer of truth but be the blogger of discrepancies? "

You say I am trying to make others think Brunson is guilty....my question: guilty of what? Guilty of making money or earning free trips for family members by hosting trips? I confess, I don't know if he does or doesn't. But you must be admitting that if he did, it would be a very bad thing, else why even be concerned? If it is not a bad thing, who cares if I would infer he was doing it?

But my point is simple: stop using church resources to advertise vacations with the pastor. It is pretty simple.

If people want to travel with the pastor on cruises, to Israel, to Venice, trips to Germany, or junkets to Vegas...do it OUTSIDE of the church since none of those are ministries of the church.

Can Dan Elkins or Steve Clifton use the FBC website to advertise their vacations? Maybe families of Middle Schoolers would like to vacation with the Elkins, so why not let them use the church to advertise?

Of course they can't because that privilege of using the church website for personal privilege is granted only to the mega church pastor and his family, and it should not be so.

And oh, by the way, if you ARE going to use the church resources, at least come out and declare that you don't pocket any money from it, and the pastor pays full price for he and his family's travel, and that he pays for the film crews that he takes with him.

Anonymous said...

'If it is not a bad thing, who cares if I would infer he was doing it?'

Truth cares.

'But my point is simple: stop using church resources to advertise vacations with the pastor. It is pretty simple.'

That seems to be a choice of any individual church. Maybe the people of FBCJ don't care. Maybe Brunson sees it as a ministry opportunity.

Why do you care what they announce and how?

You get bent out of shape because the church doesn't say what the pastor makes and now you do the same because you don't know what the pastor doesn't make.

If the trip is open to the whole church whether one can afford it or not, the website is a good place to promote it. Unless you can tell me who is being excluded.

WishIhadknown said...

Name calling? Really? At least we know you are a true disciple of your preacher.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Great, glad you agree that if a pastor makes any kind of money or accepts free travel for himself or his family from sponsoring these trips it would be a bad thing.

We are making progress!

But it is not a ministry, in my opinion. It is a vacation with your celebrity pastor and his family.

Why are you so bent out of shape?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Mac Brunson should just hook up with Bruce Peterson (Dallas, Texas) and start their own tour trips. They'd make good companions and make a lot of money!

That ship has sailed. Did everyone miss this?

Interesting that when you Google this information the only reference to "Tour by Purpose Travel" is this one -- Mac's cruise.

Bruce Peterson is listed as president of Total Life Management, and all but one of the officers are Petersons.

New BBC Open Forum said...

A general rule of thumb on these Holy Land trips is that the sponsor gets one free trip or the price thereof for every five paid trips. Other packages are available, but that's a popular one.

So in this example if they're charging $3000 for a trip, each full-fare traveler is paying an extra $500 which goes towards the price of the sponsor's trip and the fares of his family and friends or just to fatten his bank account.

A man who confronted Steve Gaines about this practice several years ago said Gaines replied defensively, "I'll have you know I pay taxes on that money!" (The man reportedly signed a sworn affidavit stating what was said.)

I know of people who've gone with church groups on these kinds of trips but booked their own plane and hotel accommodations and saved a bundle.

I've posted this before, but it really is a good description of how these trips work. (I didn't write it.)

Anonymous said...

I have seen S.E. In an eating establishment with A.C. And other prominent FBC members. Is it true they are somehow relatives?

Karen said...

Perry Noble is getting into the ring with his own Israel trip for 2012. Here's the link:

http://faithbasedexpeditions.com/tours/view/97

He went to Israel earlier this year to scout out places.

I'm wondering when Steven Furtick and James Emery White will jump on the bandwagon!

KarenM in NC

New BBC Open Forum said...

So in this example if they're charging $3000 for a trip, each full-fare traveler is paying an extra $500 which goes towards the price of the sponsor's trip and the fares of his family and friends or just to fatten his bank account.

Or an extra $600 if they're reimbursing the sponsor the full-fare price.

If you don't think this is BIG BUSINESS, take a look at this brochure. (Or here should that link mysteriously disappear.)

Pay special attention to the "Christian Tour Consultant Agreement" on page 4 of the PDF.

You can set your retail to what you feel you can sell the tour. Have two trips a year, get 5 groups referred and you could have an income of over $50,000. This can all be accomplished as a
part time income.


BIG BUSINESS! Can you begin to imagine what the "real pros" like Charles Stanley are making on these trips?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Mac Brunson should just hook up with Bruce Peterson (Dallas, Texas) and start their own tour trips. They'd make good companions and make a lot of money!

Scroll to end.

Anonymous said...

"Mac Brunson should just hook up with Bruce Peterson (Dallas, Texas) and start their own tour trips. They'd make good companions and make a lot of money!

Scroll to end."

Interesting: :>)
The end should have read HOST - Brunson doesn't do any of the planning for the event. Purpose Trave plans all the details (and I might add does a very good job of it)

Sharon said...

Does FBC Jax have a purpose statement?

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