"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Tuesday, January 19, 2010

"An iPhone is Many Things...a Bible is a Bible"

A question that I have:

Should a Christian bring a hard-copy of the Bible to church, or is it acceptable to bring an electronic copy on an iPhone or other PDA device?

Is bringing an electronic version of God's Word equivalent to a hard copy? Is the hard copy preferable to the e-copy?

Said Paige Patterson to his SWBTS chapel attendees last week (1/14/10) - emphasis mine:

"I am aware of the electronic era in which we live, and that many of you carry your bibles now on your iPhones or some other such way. I want to urge you to bring a written copy of the Bible with you in these days while we work through the book of Ruth. It is difficult with the best of electronic development to make notes and to underscore things, although I know that there are ways to do that. But it is not as easy still as it is with Bible in hand. Besides which, I want to urge you to teach your people to be a Bible loving, Bible bringing people. When you stand to proclaim the Word, when you are teaching it in the Sunday School class it is one thing to have it on an iPhone, but an iPhone is many things, a Blackberry is many things. A Bible is a Bible. And I hope you will teach your people to bring their bible to church. And I hope you will bring your bible to these sessions as we look at the book of Ruth."

Patterson implies that bringing an electronic copy of the Bible is not really "bringing your Bible" to church. I am a newly converted Blackberry user (having been a Palm PDA user since the late 1990's). I have had an electronic copy of the Bible on my handheld devices for 10 years. I sometimes bring my hard copy Bible to church, sometimes I don't. But I consider it a matter of preference and convenience, and that the Word of God on my phone is equivalent to that on paper. I like the electronic copy as I can in one stroke change translations, I can find verses much faster.

But Patterson is telling his future preachers to bring their hard copy Bibles (which is understandable if one is teaching), and if I understand him he is telling them to teach their congregations that they should bring their hard copies of the Bible instead of depending on an electronic device.

What do you think? What is your preference?

58 comments:

Anonymous said...

Interesting question. In substance, there is no difference.

The question becomes whether something is lost in form that is valuable. I am not sure I feel strongly about this one way or the other.

But you note that the teacher should have a Bible. I guess that's so people can see that he is actually speaking from the Bible. If that's the reason, then I wonder if it also applies to the congregation or listeners.

It is odd to contemplate everyone looking at a pda, none of which by simple viewing can be determined to be a Bible.

Also, since the pda can carry any type of book, the Christian crowd would look no different than a gathering of Christian Scientists, Scientologists, or other devotees if we are all just looking at pda screens. Maybe there is some value in being able to identify that the listeners are reading a distinctly different book.

Not sure either way.

But Dr. P seems to suggest note taking and such are other reasons. I am not that flexible with my pda, so I don't know about that either.

Louis

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Louis - interesting thoughts.

The idea of using a bible if you are speaking, to me, is one of practicality. The words are so small on a pda, it would be strange during a lesson to hold it close to your eyes to read. If you did use a PDA The listeners know you are reading from a bible and not from Aesop's Fables by saying "In John 3:16, we read....".

But for so many years I did always carry a hard copy, so it feels strange to walk into church without it, so lately I take my hard copy to church.

Another reason, perhaps to not use a PDA if you are a listener in a small group Sunday School lesson - how do the people around you know if you are reading your email or reading scripture or playing a video game or reading a blog? I suppose it could almost be an annoyance or distraction to others to see some dummy with his iPhone out during a Sunday School lesson.

But Patterson goes one step beyond a practicality argument, and says in effect, the bible on your PDA is one thing, and the hard copy, leather bound book is another thing. No, I think the Word of God is the Word of God, whether it on a PDA, on paper bound in leather, or on paper printed out on my printer.

I might prefer to take my bible OR my PDA, and as a preacher I MIGHT even have a preference for my listeners, and I MIGHT even tell my preference to my listeners as to what I want them to use...but I don't think one of my arguments is that the iPhone is many things, but a Bible is a Bible. The Bible - electronic, bound, unbound - is the Bible. Period.

SAB said...

I have used the same Bible for 20+ years. It is worn down but, I know about where to find passages in it because that is the way I read. (it is on the left side of the left page in the first chapters of Romans). I also list notes above and below. Most paper Bibles also do a good job os cross-referencing. Turning pages in a book is easier for me as well. Then again I am 50 years old and in my business I prefer a paper catalog to an electronic one.
Allen

Anonymous said...

I think that bringing a hard copy of the Bible is better in the fact that it is just a Bible. If a person brings an Ipod touch, iphone or blackberry, there are many other things you can mess with and it is a great distraction for others such as me who are fascinated with gadgets. However, it is much easier to forget a Bible than a phone unfortunately so when a person forgets their Bible, they can just use their phone. But definetly a hard copy is better because it eliminates distractions for the person and the others sitting around them in church.

Anonymous said...

Couldn't the same argument be made for the large high-tech projection systems used in many church sanctuaries? That same system could be used to show R-rated movies. So, is the scripture that is projected on it diminished? That seems like a stretch to me.

I don't kwow what software this person is using, but for me it is much easier to search for scripture, take notes, and highlight passages on the iphone. Plus I don't run out of column space. I take both versions to church. But I would never claim one is superior to the other.

Anonymous said...

Just what the teenagers need, another excuse to "fiddle" with their I Phones in church, and then they can just say, "Oh, I was reading my Bible". Yea right.

Anonymous said...

My favorite Bible Apps are YouVersion, Olive Tree's iphone Bible software, and KJV Bible Audiobook (narated by Alexander Scourby) all are free and very powerful tools.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Patterson on this one. Wow, that's a first! We are in an age of cold technology, with little feeling about what is written. The Bible is the Word of God. I know the arguments that it's still the Word of God on an IPhone, but not really. I was taught that the Bible was to be respected, it was not just any, ordinary book. No, I don't worship the physical book itself, like a craven image. I just believe that the Book is to be treated differently than just the run of the mill document. There is something very special about my worn out Bible. It is a friend that I go to for many reasons. I have trouble praying "God bless the reading of my IPhone". I'll keep my best friend thank you....my written copy of Gods Holy Word.

Anonymous said...

Sheep, you have missed the point. The point is do you need to bring the Word of God into church?

Many of the churches, who advocate the PURPOSE DRIVEN philosophy, in California, do not even require you to bring your bible to church. They show the scripture on the big screens in their church. You never know if the scripture is KJV, NIV, NASB, or some other PARAPHRASED WORD.

So, SHEEP, just keep taking the Word, bit by bit, out of your church and one day you will just have a MEETING.

The strong men of God in this past generation all wanted you to have your bible with you when you attended church. They did not want you to rely on what they said, but what your bible said.

Of course this is TRADITION isn't it? {The modernist want you to believe that tradition is bad.} Just ask them.

Junkster said...

This is purely a matter of personal preference and convenience. There can be arguments pro and con for either side, but there is no "right answer".

If I were a pastor or teacher, I would be glad just to know the people I was teaching cared enough about the Bible to bring one with them and to refer to it and follow along in study, no matter what kind it was. And those being taught should be glad that their teacher is teaching from the Word of God in a such a way as to make it worthwhile to bring their Bibles with them.

This reminds me of discussions about whether it is better to use hymnals or projection screens for song lyrics. Also purely a matter of personal preference and convenience.

But I see nothing wrong with Patterson expressing his opinion and preference and giving his reasons. Seems like a silly thing to "urge" others to use a printed Bible rather than an electonic one, but at least he didn't make it some sort of legalistic requirement.

Anonymous said...

As a person who cares about reaching lost souls, I would argue that we all need to have our Bibles on our phones, ipods and what not. And know how to quickly reference verses. That way, you can share the gospel, or "what the Bible says" with someone who might not even own an Bible, and certainly would never walk around with one. For example: You are in Wal-mart and a friend confides in you about something personal and important about their finances. You can tell them "take out your iphone, pull up this site, and look at Malachi 3:8 - 3:10." Or you can simply pull it up on your iphone and tell them: "Look, here is Malachi 3:8 - 3:10 and it clearly says you should give 10% of your gross paycheck, undesignated, to the budget of the church where you attend." And if they looked surprised, you can tell them "you didn't know that, well you know it now." And if they still don't take your word for it, you can yell "it's on your ipod, brutha! Take it up with the iphone!"

Anonymous said...

10:50 AM Thank God for TRADITION. If you don't SEE Bibles in peoples hands you don't really know if they are looking at it on the IPhone or not. If they can take the Bible and prayer out of schools, then out of society in general, what do you think if they don't SEE that people CARE enough to bring one to church. And as 10:50 said just any old version will do. This IPhone thing is new and I basically have not seen anything truly spiritual happen in technology lately. How do I know that the IPhone will give me Gods TRUE Word. Just a little change here and there and you have a CORRUPT Bible. We know this from some versions (written) out now. Just a little change here and there and you can destroy whole doctrines!!!! No thanks to the IPHONE Bible. One more move to get the real Bible out of church. This reeks of Purpose Driven. If people don't SEE a Bible then they don't see a need for one, it's just one more thing to ignore, disregard or HARDEN YOUR HEART against. Soon churches will take the Crosses off the buildings, saying "We don't need a Cross in sight anywhere, "Everyone knows it's a church". Just wait that's next. Can anyone STAND up for the BIBLE, the CROSS and for JESUS, or are we to become a dumbed down generation of technological "groupies"?????

Anonymous said...

11:21 "Take it up with the IPHONE brutha".

LOVE IT!! That's just about how cold it seems to those of us who ARN'T ASHAMED to be seen with a Bible....in addition to actually studying/reading it.

Anonymous said...

Looks like the KVJ Only advocates have taken up a new cause. Their only problem is that they don't take it far enough. We should all go back to the unbound scroll (the way the Bible was meant to be read). And we should get rid of these newfangled leather bound editions. Soon, teenagers will be slipping comic books inside and claiming they are reading the Bible.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

11:21 - some other humorous comments about pros and cons:

- if you don't bring a hard copy Bible, how will you have the mega church celebrity pastors sign an iPhone at the conferences?

- maybe the pastors are worried that you might google one of the sentences of their sermon while he's preaching, and find out he got it from sermons.com.

Any other humorous pros and cons about electronic versus bound paper versions of the bible?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

but the "take it up wit da iPhone" is just too funny.

:)

Anonymous said...

I completely agree with Patterson. He got this right.

Anonymous said...

SG is afraid that the "sheep" might google "tithes" "undesignated" and "no exceptions" and find out there were 3 tithes in the OT, that there is no mention of it being undesignated and that there were exceptions. The last thing he needs is a bunch of Bereans!

Dr Who said...

We all know this saying.....

Nuts do not fall far from the tree.....

Well, there are MANY of his
fellow " Preacher BUDS " who have been spraying this and other garbage around for years.

I have a message for all of them....

I ain't no GARBAGE CAN!!

Anonymous said...

Knowing Patterson, he is probably intimidated by this technology. You all would be surprised at the amount of well known leaders who are not computer literate at all. This is simply something he cannot relate to and therefore cannot control. So they are suspicious of it.

This is silly enough to warrant asking if it was wrong not to bring scrolls instead of a bound bible at one point in history.

Just reading history, we know that that regular folks had NO bible at all until about the 1500's and even then, it was precious because of the expense. Only the priests had bibles before then and in many cases it was illegal to own one if you were not a priest. It had to be interpreted for you by the priest. And, of course, most folks were illiterate.

I prefer to have my mini laptop when teaching because I can search and click on correlating passages and even the interlinear which I have downloaded. I can project this for everyone to see.

I would welcome the PDA bible and encourage it for those who prefer technology. There are many who are reading whole books on kindle and are used to this venue.

Read your PDA Bible at stoplights, in the doctors waiting room and at lunch. Keep a notepad handy if you need to. I just make notes and keep it on my flash drive.

My good friend who is a bivocational pastor always uses his.

Matt

Anonymous said...

- maybe the pastors are worried that you might google one of the sentences of their sermon while he's preaching, and find out he got it from sermons.com."


Now you are on to something. That is exactly right.

Anonymous said...

But I see nothing wrong with Patterson expressing his opinion and preference and giving his reasons. Seems like a silly thing to "urge" others to use a printed Bible rather than an electonic one, but at least he didn't make it some sort of legalistic requirement.

January 19, 2010 11:16 AM

No, he just used shame and guilt. And because of who he is, how many do you think will show up with PDA bibles if they want to get a preaching job after seminary.

You gotta learn how it works with these guys.

Anonymous said...

I love the new gagets. To get the bible in any way is wonderful. Matt mentioned some of our bible history that most of our early christians had no bibles. Nevertheless, the Word of God continues to spread. Gagets will only help keep us informed.

There are however, many changes that will hurt the spread of the Word of God. I am more concurned with the watering down of the Word. How many bibles are we going to have in the next ten years. Are we going to reach a point when a lost person is finally going to say HEY, YOU CHRISTIANS DON'T EVEN KNOW WHICH BIBLE IS GOD'S WORD. AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, HOW CAN I FIND OUT? HOW CAN I KNOW HOW TO BE SAVED?

Yes California is in deep trouble in their churches. I talked with one church member who said that she hasn't brought her bible to church in years. All of the scripture was on the big screen. She had no idea what bible the preacher was using and didn't care. If the preacher thought it ok it must be a good bible.

It will come a time when each of us will have to take a stand on which bible is the nearest to God's Word.

It better be NOW!!

Neighbor

Junkster said...

And because of who he is, how many do you think will show up with PDA bibles if they want to get a preaching job after seminary.

You gotta learn how it works with these guys.


This is true. When one of the big leaders "urges" something, his disciples, the next generation of leadership takes it even further makes it into an absolute command.

Anonymous said...

Technology is a wonderful thing when used for good. As a former children's minister my thoughts concern how we model things for children. How will they learn how to use God's word; worship, etc. except through sound teaching and example. Nothing touches the heart more than to see a parent helping a child find verses in their Bible or follow along as scripture is read aloud. Somehow using an iphone or blackberry is just not the same as holding a Bible and searching for verses. Now, having said that, who knows what the future holds in way of technology. Children will adapt and use whatever comes. As adults we help them find balance and understanding.

My husband and I teach a class of young married adults and we watch them use their phones each week---texting as they sit next to each other or across the room to friends or following the scripture. However, reading aloud becomes difficult. They are great young adults whose lives are so different from what our younger years were like because of technology.

I don't think it really matters how we read the Bible, but that we do. In our church, the reference is on the screen, but the congregation is encouraged to open a hard copy and follow along. Pew Bibles are offered as gifts to those who do not have a copy of God's word. Each week copies are taken by those who need one or know someone who does. This has proven to be a valuable ministry and hopefully those taken are read and bring folks to know God and his love for them.

Lydia said...

It does not matter the format if there is no hunger and thirst for Word. That is key.

I can remember reading stories of prisoners who would smuggle a bible into prison, tear out pages to pass around. A few pages was like owning gold because the hunger was there. There was no sin or disrespect in the 'format' of torn pages.

Anonymous said...

About 17 years ago, one of the guys in our new church said that books and print were out. That this was the video generation, and to be truly effective, the word should be presented in film format (tv or big screen).

We never went that way. He was a really thoughtful guy, but has moved out of state.

Doesn't seem like his trend was entirely accurate.

Though my friend Avery Willis, who leads the Orality Network works on the issue of bringing the Gospel to the Billions of people in the world who do not read and need some other way to be taught.

I realize that's a different question, but it is related.

I am still a "both and" type of guy. Usually the extreme position is the wrong one.

Louis

Anonymous said...

"I am still a "both and" type of guy. Usually the extreme position is the wrong one."

I agree. I have a ton of different translations in book form all over the place but use the interlinear daily and for that I need the technology. Else it would be a very big book.


Most mega's project their one or two proof texts from a sermon onto the IMAG along with the 3 point sermon.


I would love to see them throw out the 3 points and just project an entire chapter. Guess one can dream.

Matt

Anonymous said...

One good thing about the written Word is that it needs no battery. When the electricy or whatever goes down, your hand held device does not work, but mine does. I agree with Patterson all the way on this one.

Thy Peace said...

I love the smell of books. I miss this in the electronic editions. My happiest memories are in smelling old books in a library. So in that sense I can appreciate reading books. But I do lot of my reading on the computer and ebook readers. But most of this is work related. For personal reading I favor paper books.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Some have compared reading from an electronic version of the Bible to reading the words of hymns and choruses off a screen. I don't think that's really an exact comparison. A Bible is printed word only, regardless of whether you're reading it from paper or electronically. Following a song in a hymnal adds an extra dimension you don't get reading words from a screen. Hopefully it teaches some people something about reading music and harmony, and in some hymnals, you get a little music history, too.

Off topic: For those of you under the age of 30, a "hymnal" is a book with music and lyrics to hymns printed in it. They can still be found in some churches, including Bellevue where they were formerly used to save seats. Today they're just gathering dust because you can easily find a seat anywhere you want. I've often wondered why the church doesn't donate them to a small church that would use and appreciate them.

Back on topic: I'm in the "either" camp on this one. It's like playing Solitaire. Sure, you can play on most computers and cell phones, but sometimes there's no substitute for an old-fashioned deck of cards. As someone already mentioned, there's no concern about electricity with a book, but portability and quick searches are possible with the iPhone, and you can read it in the dark. I think like Solitaire, both versions are here to stay.

Junkster said...

I like the smell of electronics.

True that hymnals have music, which is very good for those (increasingly few) who can read it. The really good ole timey hymnals had shape notes to aid in reading music.

Maybe one day folks will say that ole timey Bibles were printed words on paper.

Here's a thought -- if it's better to bring a printed Bible to church because it's only a Bible (whereas an iPhone is many things), then you should be sure to bring a version that has no footnotes, study notes, book introductions, maps, index, concordance, table of contents, chapter/verse divisions -- all those things can distract from the Bible, and someone might read or look at some of them during the sermon. As someone already said, best to go back to scrolls -- that way we can be sure we have the Word and only the Word. And it should be in the original languages, too, 'cuz, after all, a translation is just man's opinion about what the Bible says...

Interesting topic and discussion. But it's a colossal waste of energy to concern ourselves about what someone else prefers, and just plain silly to think one way is right and the other wrong.

Anonymous said...

Palm Zire 31; e-Sword Bible software downloaded for free--a few different versions, including Greek; search features; note-taking area; copy/paste; Bible commentaries downloaded--again for free. Love it, and preached from it while out of the country last year. Patterson should enter the 21st century; stop sounding bossy.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Oooh, junk. Yeah, the smell of new electronics! Mmmm!

I think with Patterson a lot of it has to do with image. I mean, it just wouldn't be the same with an iPhone.

Bro. Rod H. said...

" Lydia said...
It does not matter the format if there is no hunger and thirst for Word. That is key.

I can remember reading stories of prisoners who would smuggle a bible into prison, tear out pages to pass around. A few pages was like owning gold because the hunger was there. There was no sin or disrespect in the 'format' of torn pages.

January 19, 2010 5:33 PM


I whole-heartedly agree with your statement Lydia!

It's the condition of one's heart;

If there is a hunger and thirst,the type media will not matter!!!

Anonymous said...

sermons.com??????

Nicole said...

It is a preference. I prefer the book, but I also have it on my iphone and use it quite often.
Interesting thought though. I see people on their iphones thinking they aren't paying attention, then find out that they are reading along. But it isn't up to us what we think. God knows. He also knows whether we are just reading it, or taking it to heart.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Actually, I just pulled the "sermons.com" out of thin air to be humorous...but it turns out that there is a www.sermons.com that a preacher can subscribe to for $69.95 a year for their "Sermon Prep Package". Gee, I can't believe it. ;)

Anonymous said...

Actually, I just pulled the "sermons.com" out of thin air to be humorous...but it turns out that there is a www.sermons.com that a preacher can subscribe to for $69.95 a year for their "Sermon Prep Package". Gee, I can't believe it. ;)

January 20, 2010 1:59 PM

Believe it. It is a nice stream of income for some mega's. The whole package, too, with video clips, skits, etc. And it has been going on for about 15 years.

AND...it has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. And that is the problem.

Matt

Anonymous said...

Here's a thought -- if it's better to bring a printed Bible to church because it's only a Bible (whereas an iPhone is many things), then you should be sure to bring a version that has no footnotes, study notes, book introductions, maps, index, concordance, table of contents, chapter/verse divisions -- all those things can distract from the Bible, and someone might read or look at some of them during the sermon. As someone already said, best to go back to scrolls -- that way we can be sure we have the Word and only the Word. And it should be in the original languages, too, 'cuz, after all, a translation is just man's opinion about what the Bible says...

Ok, I laughed out loud. Another good thing about the scrolls is there are no distracting punctuation marks, paragraph breaks, verse numbers or chapter numbers. (wink)

New BBC Open Forum said...

No, I knew the anon was serious.

sermons.com

Free sermons are also available at Rick Warren's pastors.com as well as dozens of other sites. Apparently it's big business.

Anonymous said...

New BBC-

How can it be big business is Warren is offering the sermons for free?

Anonymous said...

Sorry but the scrolls are now dust. They are no longer in existence. God's word is pure and will never pass away. There is nothing new in the Dead Sea scrolls (now preserved in Israel)that is not presently in the King James Version. God is able to preserve his Word forever. Matt 24:35 "Heaven and Earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away".

Anonymous said...

I have not read all 43 post so someone might had said this before. The human eye when it looks a a book of something written scans the whole page eventhough you are not aware. It is going back and forth and up and down. For that reason Hard copies are better. I agree with the not taking point. Also there is a familarity with using a hard copy that comes with searching thru it. You can gain a greater knowledge. I think the electronic age though it puts more knowledge hand but since it is at hand and very easy to find we do not retain. Nothing like a good Bible drill to get know your Bible. With the PDA all you have to do is click. I enjoy my Bible software and the ability to click and paste. But I found out since I have been doing this I retain less. I do like the Idea of being able to upload sermon notes to every one as I preach.

Pastor Chris

New BBC Open Forum said...

"How can it be big business is Warren is offering the sermons for free?"

Thank you. I realized after I posted that it was worded poorly. What I should have said (and what I meant) was free sermons are available at Rick Warren's pastors.com and for sale at dozens of other sites. I was too lazy to go back and rewrite it.

I like PC's point about Bible drills. I believe just as electronic calculators should not be used by students until they have mastered basic math skills, the same could be said for electronic forms of the Bible. If you can't recite all 66 books of the Bible in order and quickly find any verse in a Bible, you need to master those skills before switching to the iPhone version. Calculators and electronic Bibles are great tools if one has mastered the skills to do basic math in one's head or using a pencil and paper (let's bring back the slide rule while we're at it) and to be able to readily find one's way around the inside of a printed Bible.

Anonymous said...

"There is nothing new in the Dead Sea scrolls (now preserved in Israel)that is not presently in the King James Version."

There were plenty of scolls and parchments in the old clay pots that have helped us understand better certain things in the Word. Such as divorce and WHY the Pharisees asked Jesus about it.

I would encourage any KJV only folks to read the entire long preface written by the translators. It is online.

Matt

Former FBC Insider said...

Scrolls, parchments, iPhone, braille, oak, birch, your copy or my copy, the Word is the Bible and none of these forms are 'more Holy' than the other. That's where I get annoyed. Use whichever method works for you and don't wave your judgement wand over everyone else who chooses a different method.

Boy, this goes for all the other preferences God allows us to have too, music, hymnals, Imags, TVs, raised hands, no raised hands, choirs, worship teams, bands, orchestras, and so on.

The only difference is that technology is here to stay, jump on or get left behind. Check this blog in ten years and get a good laugh at our dialogue.

Anonymous said...

Matt: "I encourage the KJV folks to read etc., etc."

Tell you what Matt you read it. I am not interested in it. I have all I need in my KJV. I don't need any thing else. As Solomon said, "there is nothing new under the Sun". I noticed NO ONE has come up with anything new that isn't in the KJV. I personally am not into distorted Bibles. Thanks!

chadwick said...

DOG:

I don't agree with you on much, but (gasp) I think I can side with you on this issue.

I am learning to transfer my sermon notes from my macbook to my iPhone via cyberduck. The uses of the iPhone are endless. Here is the link: http://cyberduck.ch/

Do you think Patterson would approve of me using my iphone in the pulpit for my sermon notes rather than the traditional 81/2 X 11 paper?

chadwick

Arce said...

Anonymous said...
Matt: "I encourage the KJV folks to read etc., etc."

"Tell you what Matt you read it. I am not interested in it. I have all I need in my KJV. I don't need any thing else. As Solomon said, "there is nothing new under the Sun". I noticed NO ONE has come up with anything new that isn't in the KJV. I personally am not into distorted Bibles. Thanks!

January 22, 2010 6:58 PM"

The KJV is a deliberately political translation sponsored by a king who wanted them to justify his "divine right" to rule. It is distorted from the oldest Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. One example is the transgendered apostle. Paul writes about the apostle Junia (a female form) and the KJV people made her into Junias, a male form.

A whole lot of the patriarchy and hierarchy evident in KJV is due to choice of words to use to translate from the Greek and many times, those choices are not the most accurate translations. Many of the more modern translations, when there is more than one choice, will continue to use the choice that is in the KJV rather than another, more accurate one, so as not to raise the ire of evangelicals and reduce the sales of their version.

Anonymous said...

Anon. 4:31. "The KJV is a delibertly political translation. Sponsored by a king that wanted them(?)to justify his "devine right" to rule. It is distorted from the oldest Greek and Hebrew manuscripts."

Intelligencia raises it's ugly head again. Baloney!!! Where do you get this garbage? You certainly weren't around then!!! So you are getting this OPINION from some inferior and unreliable source. Seminary teaching is less than reliable. And your info is an OPINION indeed. One good thing about getting to Heaven will be when the Lord holds up the KJV and straightens out all of the "intelligent" people who for years have torn it down. If the KJV was as faulty and riddled with error as many try to paint it why was it the ONLY Bible used for 260 years. Why do you think God allowed it to be used as the ONLY representation of His Word. Do you people really believe that God would have allowed His Word the KJV to be the only Bible used for so long a time, UNCHALLENGED????? Keep in mind that the KJV is not copyrighted, all of the others are. In other words the others are FOR PROFIT. Plus, each new Bible, in order to be published must CHANGE 20% of it's content, in order not to infringe on other Bibles. So add up all of the "bibles" out there and consider each one has at least a 20% change in it, and what do you think? I think you get a "seminary nightmare". Not to mention a destroyed Bible. I have often wondered WHY it is so important for some to TRY to tear down the KJV? Who would it benefit to place doubt on the KJV. I think I know who benefits when doubt is cast on the KJV. I would not want to answer for that one.

Antonio Rodrigo "MINOTAURO" Nogueira said...

Question for anonymous:

The Deluxe Facsimile "400th Anniversary" Edition

Behold, the "Holy Grail" of book collectors everywhere, the "Bible to end all Bibles", the First Edition of the beloved 1611 King James Bible. This faithful and exact reproduction of the very first King James Pulpit Bible is indeed a work of art and fine craftsmanship beyond compare. More than a "facsimile", it is a masterpiece.

Measuring the exact size of the original 1611 printing: an enormous 17-1/2 inches tall by 12 inches wide by 5-1/2 inches thick (including its slipcase), and weighing almost 30 pounds, so much it nearly takes two people to comfortably move it, this is the finest reproduction of the 1611 ever undertaken. Unlike other facsimiles, this Deluxe Edition is printed on 100% rag cotton linen sheet (not wood-pulp paper), just like the original 1611. We even faithfully reproduced the small quantity of decorative red ink in the prefatory section. The originals that were actually printed in 1611 were commissioned by King James I to be literally chained to the pulpit of every church in England. Now you can own a facsimile replica of that exact same bible.

Constructed of the highest quality of thick chocolate-brown leather over five layers of solid birch wooden boards with extra-heavy duty stitching and raised spine bands with gold spine stamping, no detail was overlooked. It even has the elaborate coat of arms of King James blind-stamped into the leather of the front cover! The slip case has a special raised bottom sleeve to totally support the weight of the pages when standing upright. Over $100,000 went into the set-up for production of this magnificent creation. It's just like the real ones, visually IDENTICAL to an original 1611, and actually made out of the exact same materials as an original 1611, except that it is absolutely brand new, and less than one-half-of-one-percent the cost of the last 1611 sold at auction.

Each one is a hand-numbered limited edition of only 1,000 total copies made. We still have a few hundred copies available. These massive pulpit folios make a great centerpiece for the communion table or the entry-way in a church. They are also quite popular as centerpieces for private home libraries. If you are looking for something that will make people stop and stare, this is it! Photographs cannot adequately show what a stunning and magnificent display piece this enormous folio is.

The Manufacturer's suggested retail price was $5,995 each, while it has been sold at the price of $3,995. Here it is available to you for $995, only 1/4 of the retail price. Acquiring one of these bibles should be viewed as an “investment” and not just a purchase as it’s value will likely appreciate over time.

One question if the KJV is not for profit and all other versions of the Bible are, why do don't them give them away for free?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Antonio wasn't kidding!

Get 'em before they're gone!

Word verification: macked

Anonymous said...

You pay for printing cost only, buddy!!! NOT FOR PROFIT, as an author of a book would require! And the Gideons DO give them away. There is always a "joker" out there isn't there.

Anonymous said...

Ha - that is so funny

Anonymous said...

As a Southwestern student, I have a little more insight to provide on Patterson's view. He does not allow electronics into the classroom, which is unfortunate for me as I normally take notes on my laptop. The reasons for this are twofold: First, the hard copy is believed to be better for memory as is writing notes. This point might be debatable, but it is a view. Also, an electronic copy does provide the temptation to get distracted.
His emphasis is not to demean the texts available electronically. He seems to be more concerned, as an educator, with the best way to receive and to retain information.

Lonnie said...

I attended Southwestern long before Dr Patterson arrived, and I've never heard him speak in person, but from what I've read in the Southwestern magazine and in news reports, he thinks the best way to do things is the way he was brought up to do them.

The best way to do worship is the way he's accustomed to it being done. Family life should be the way it was in his family. People should dress the way they have throughout his professional life.

It's not an uncommon way for people to perceive things, but it seems strange for someone in his position to see the world so provincially.

Josh said...

"Parts and parcels of truth are the most envenomed shafts which fly from the bow of Satan."

-William Howells