"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Tuesday, January 12, 2010

A 2008 Message from Paige Patterson on Handling Attacks

In an interview with SBC Today in February 2008, just prior to the FBC Jax Pastor's Conference, Paige Patterson was asked by Tim Rogers of SBC Today the following question:

"How do we control ourselves when we as pastors come under attack, and we take attacks alot like you have, not on the level that you have, but how do we control ourselves when we're under attack like that, what suggestions do you have for us?"

I think Patterson's response is worth considering by all Christians who claim to be attacked and might seek justice, and might have particular relevance to Jerry Sutton's recent lawsuit against his critic. I don't know if Patterson has lived up to his own statements below or not, but his advice is worth considering.

I'm putting it here after nearly 2 years since the interview, as it was provided in audio-only format at SBC Today, and probably not many people have heard it. The context of the interview was at the time the Sheri Klouda lawsuit was before the court but not yet decided on summary judgment. He also was receiving heat at the time because Darrell Gilyard has just gotten busted a few months earlier, so Patterson was being roundly criticized for not doing more to keep Gilyard out of the pulpit after complaints about Gilyard's sexual appetite were brought to Patterson as president of Criswell College.

So here is Patterson's response to Rogers' question (emphases are obviously mine):

"Well, that's an excellent question. I'm not certain that I'm much of a paradigm to look at on it, because, I do have some difficulty with it. As I often say I'm half Irish and half Texan - its a bad genetic combination. What is easy for you to handle is with regard to what comes toward you personally; when your family is hurt and so forth, it becomes very difficult.

I would say that one of the most important things that a person has to do is to keep in mind the bigger picture, and the bigger picture goes something like this: first and foremost do you believe that God is really just? Do you believe that He is really merciful? Do you really believe he is omnipotent, that he can really handle the situation? Is he really omniscient, does he know what is going on? If you really believe that, then you really only have one big challenge, and that is to be sure you please God. What else happens to you, God can stop it anytime he wants to.

If its unjust, then at some point God rights every wrong. You HAVE to believe that, if you don't believe that, then you go mad, you get angry and you get bitter, and when a root of bitterness is found in your heart its not long before it contaminates you and everybody around you, as the Bible warns.

As a second feature, that helps me in it, that is that I'm an old man now and I have to face the fact that what happens to me from now on is relatively unimportant. Its the next generation and the next and the next that are coming along behind. And so with no attempt to be particularly noble about it at all, its much more important for me to take whatever folks want to dish out to me than it is for a younger man, and anybody else that has to take it. I have to learn to thank God because if those energies are expended on me somebody else is being spared and I'm thankful for that.

And there's a third thing too, and that is I believe that God uses all such attacks that come to take off rough edges on us. There's some very clear mandates from scripture about loving your enemy, returning good for evil, praying for those that spitefully use you; not a one of those are you able to do under sunny-side-up conditions. Not one of those commands of Christ can be done unless you have an enemy, unless he is misrepresenting you, unless he is attacking you in some way.

And so I have to reach the point where I say 'OK Lord, you're Lord, you can do whatever you want to about this.' My responsibility is to be sure that I respond to you properly in this situation. But if I can keep my mind and thought on that rather than on whether I like or dislike the people that are making the attack it helps me a great deal.

But in the end, I come back to say, it's your doctrine of the providence of God, whether or not that's a theory, or whether or not its a fact in your life, that is determinitive."

Great advice for the most part. Whether he and his "sons in the ministry" (as he calls them) follow this advice is something else. His comment on taking what people dish out so that younger pastors don't have to makes no sense. Seems like a clever attempt to dismiss Christians like Klouda, Burleson, Cole, Brown, and Croft and others who have raised legitimate issues in the public arena concerning Patterson. Patterson wasn't taking someone's else's arrows when he was the subject of the Klouda lawsuit - HE was the seminary president that had fired Sheri Klouda for being a woman teaching men. HE was the mentor of Darrell Gilyard and the president of Criswell College when Darrell was accused of being a sexual predator and worse...so the criticism came and rightly so. He wasn't taking someone else's arrows, he spared no one else attacks by enduring his.

But his other comments are valid and worth considering. Patterson asks if the doctrine of the providence of God just a theory to these pastors who have studied it and preached it to their congregations, or is it an actual fact and verifiable truth lived out in their lives? In other words, perhaps a critic is placed in someone's life by God to help them see something that needs correcting and to give them an opportunity to show the world how to love someone even when they despise you.

Or does the providence of God sometimes include lawsuits, threats of lawsuits, and other legal maneuvers against critics?

43 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yeah watchdog maybe God put Dr. Brunson in your life so you could show love to someone who despises you and as a critic to show where you are wrong. Is that the way you meant it? I didn't think so. This is one of your more ridiculous posts, in that everybody knows what you are trying to say but its a little hypocritical seeing as you are the attacker originally. You're not a martyr, you were an attacker. Dr. Brunson is NEVER going to make this up to YOU....cause YOU started it. Do I think Dr. Brunson is right? I didn't say that, but this post is like self aggrandizing or something.....

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

No, that is not how I meant it. You are way off. Patterson is making valid points about how PASTORS should respond when they are criticized. This was a pastor, Tim Rogers, asking another minister, Paige Patterson, about how ministers should behave, and it was recorded at a pastor's conferencew, and posted on a blog site read mostly by other ministers (SBC Today). My post is about how Patterson sharing his views on how he should respond to what he perceives as unjust criticism, and his advice about how PASTORS should respond when they perceive that they are under attack.

Your hatred of me has caused you to perhaps be so blind that you can't even read Patterson's words on this blog objectively without trying to read into my post some sinister or hidden message.

So its quite obvious you entirely missed the point Patterson was making.

I'll pray for you, brother.

Arce said...

Truthful critiques of a person are not being "an attacker". And so far, no one has shown that anything that WD has said on his blog was not true! Pointing out the truth about a pastor who has faults and who abuses the authority of the position of pastor is not attacking. However, Brunson did attack the WD, in public and with false accusations. Brunson was and is the "attacker">

Anonymous said...

You brethren may want to catch the article, "When Passsions Run High" at www.changeworthmaking.wordpress.com.

Anonymous said...

Hey, if Watchdog hadn't said something about Brunson first, Brunson never would have said something back. So its valid and right whenever Watchdog speaks, and an attack when Brunson speaks. Sorry, to me...its an attack from watchdog on Brunson and then an attack from Brunson on watchdog, and either way, they were both wrong. Thats the way I see it. And Patterson says stuff that SOUNDS good, but mostly is never put in to practice. Thats like a lot of Christianity. Do you REALLY think Patterson was all loving when people attacked him about Sherri Klouda and Gilyard?
Watchdog, what I'm trying to say is, you are not all innocence and light and some martyr for the cause. You REALLY think God made you do this blog?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

"Watchdog, what I'm trying to say is, you are not all innocence and light and some martyr for the cause. "

Amen. You are correct. I'm not innocent, I'm a vile sinner like you. And I'm not light (sigh). Just a guy who has a blog who writes what he has seen and what he believes and about what he has experienced. If that bothers you, then please don't come here to read it. And to even suggest that I think I'm a martry is ridiculous. Now some pastors who get criticized might view themselves as martyrs, but that too is ridiculous. But it serves your interests apparently to accuse me of thinking I'm a martry.

You sound angry, brother.

Anonymous said...

I believe we should have this discussion regardless of our denomination. God is the final Judge since the one in authority usually has the upper hand and the power to crush any rebellion. I think the argument Dr Patterson gives is correct regardless of ones age however, since most older folks really don't care as much as the younger people. But, knowing people like I do whether it is in business or church, those that are unkind will continue to be unkind, and those that are kind will continue to be kind. Bad thing is that sometimes the unkind run off a lot of good kind people from the church. Also, those on the outside see just how unkind and phoney some people really behave outside the confines of the church. As Shakespeare said " All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players".

Junkster said...

Interesting that Patterson's entire response assumes that any criticisms sent his way are unjustified. A humble man would have started with something like, "The first thing I do is take it to God in prayer and ask Him to show me any way in which I may be wrong and to remove from me any pride and make me willing to receive the criticism with grace and humility and repent of any wrong attitudes, words, or actions on my part."

He just assumes that it is the other person who is wrong and not him. That could explain what he meant about taking what people dish out so that younger pastors don't have to. He basically thinks that any critic is just a malcontent who is looking for someone to attack, and if it wasn't him, it would be someone else -- there's no way in his mind it might be that the criticism is valid.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

While what he said sounds very humble(and even moreso when you listen to the audio), what you've said is the underlying assumption: no criticism that he's endured is valid - just random attacks that he has bravely endured to spare someone else. He's the lightning rod, and is taking hits for the "team". In the Klouda and Gilyard fiascos, criticism was valid, or at least expected.

On the other hand, I think implied in Rogers' question, although not stated, is how do you handle FALSE attacks. But Patterson I think touches on this when he prefaces his remarks with "If its unjust..." He is dealing with how do you deal with criticism that you believe is unjust. These guys don't ever do a good job of admitting when they're done something wrong. I have to believe that Patterson AND Vines believe they've made mistakes in how Gilyard was handled, and it is important that they share with younger pastors what these were, so that a repeat performance could be avoided. But you won't hear them publicly admit to any mistakes made, unfortunately.

I heard Patterson say one time at FBC Jax: "if I believed everything that was said about me, I wouldn't like myself very much either." I can relate to that.

Anonymous said...

Baptist pastors don't do WRONG. (and no I'm not angry, brother, I'm just off today and trying to stir a little c r a p up, and its just always too easy here.) and I'm not a brother either. but now I'm done for today.

Anonymous said...

1 Cor. 4:1-5 (NKJV)

[1] Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.

[2] Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful.

[3] But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself.
[4] For I know nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.

[5] Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God.

Junkster said...

Watchdog,
I think you're right that Rogers' question implies false attacks -- that is evidenced by his use of the word "attack" rather than just "criticism". And Patterson certainly responded with the assumption that the question was about an unjust attack. But even if the question had been explicitly worded as "How do you handle unjust attacks?", I still think the appropriately humble response would be to acknowledge that the critic may indeed have a point and the one being criticized should start with an examination of himself. The very fact that both Rogers and Patterson just took it for granted that criticisms are unjust attacks shows the underlying mindset that pastors are right and their critics are wrong.

Lydia said...

Patterson can make comments like that because he has always been protected by other influencers. he is the one who has been the spiritual abuser.

btw: God wants HIS people to be just, too. And God usually works through His people. But then, not all who say they are His...are.

Christians do not willfully and consistently hurt other Christians

Anonymous said...

1 Cor. 4:1-5 (NKJV)

[1] Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.

[2] Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful.

[3] But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself.
[4] For I know nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.

[5] Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God.

January 12, 2010 4:00 PM

Then in chapter 5 Paul tells them NOT to judge the outside world but TO JUDGE those in the Body who are in sin. hmmmmmmm

Context always helps. Paul does not contradict because his words are Inspired.

Anonymous said...

Watchdog, Page Patterson, in all the years that I have seen him speak, has always displayed an arrogant ,conceited manner. That is just my observation. However, you may not think this of him.

What amazes me now is why FBCJAX is bringing in Alvin Reid to speak at the Pastors Conferance?

Alvin Reid will be speaking on the CONVERGENT/EMERGENT church. He apperantly is in love with both of them. The Emergent church is nothing more than your every day nostic, esoteric, their view of, some hidden beliefs.

Que paso?

Thy Peace said...

Off Topic:

Read ALL about it. Oklahoma Pastor Advises Nose Punching.

Anonymous said...

We at FBC KNOW how to handle unjust criticism:

1) "Shut em down"

2.) "Aggressively Confront"

3.) Intentionally slander them and ridicule them in the newspaper by calling them "coward", "mentally unstable" and "sociopath."

4.) Never apologize

Our pastor and deacon/trustee A.C. Soud modeled this for us all.

jer1022 said...

I have just recently (several weeks ago) began reading this blog and watching the vidoes. With all respect, it does seem to me, based on what I have observed, that much of what is going on within this blog is "attacking" and NOT "criticism" (certainly not what i would constructive criticism.) Tom (watchdog), you don't even attend FBC Jax anymore. However, you are still dishing it out to Mac pretty heavily. There are no perfect pastors, but many of you seem to just be searching for things to attack. Certainly, you don't think any of this is building the Kingdom of God? Just my opinions!

Anonymous said...

I have found that many of the clergy think they are a member of the deity. I ran into one of those, that's why I no longer attend church. I stay close to the Lord and read my Bible, by myself. I found that I get along much better that way. No one has a chance to cause me further distress, because I am not around them. Jesus is more than sufficient.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:43

It is very difficult to find a bible believing church nowdays here in Jacksonville. Be not dishearted. God is always in control and as you very well know he loves you where every you are.

From what I have observed we are about to see the end of the reformation as we have known it. The baptist denomination is self destructing right before our eyes. They have adopted the belief that it is more important to get along with even New Age churches and their beliefs rather than be scripturaly sound in doctrine. When you join yourselves with cults and the enemies of God you are headed for destruction. We are seeing the SBC go worldly. Blend in with the world. Go along and get along.

It may be that the Lord may be ready to shake us up from our leathargey. Maybe he is waiting for someone to stand up and start a new reformation for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Or will it be some of the new dads who refuse to let their family grow up not attending a God fearing church. They may have to start their own revival honoring the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is becoming obvious that too many of the current day churches are departing from the word of God and becoming no more than businesses. What a shame.

So, Anon 9:43 keep looking for a church. God still has some out there.

FAITH

Arce said...

Anonymous said...
Hey, if Watchdog hadn't said something about Brunson first . . .. January 12, 2010 2:28 PM.


Anonymous said...
We at FBC KNOW how to handle unjust criticism . . .. January 12, 2010 9:39 PM.

I would note that the criticism by WD was not false or slanderous, but true reporting of facts, and fully justified by showing what a hypocrit Brunson is in saying one thing and doing another himself.
Brunson, on the other hand, openly and publicly slandered the WD with false allegations and also had agents who made false allegations against the WD.

What Brunson did was an attack; what the WD did was not.

Entertained said...

I doubt that Patterson was the only preacher that gave Gilyard the benefit of the doubt. Patterson was probably one of the most prominent that stuck his neck out.

I think that Patterson made a good point. He is a leader and bears the most force of the brunt when someting or someone goes wrong. You did not attack the youth Pastor or Music Minister in Gilyards church that obviously supported him?

I am only making a point that you and others reserved your opportunistic and sensational attack on men like Patterson. You did not go after the deacons and staff.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Entertained - when the Gilyard story broke around Christmas of 2007, I was one of the first bloggers and even beat the local media in providing the stories from the early 1990's that reported on Gilyard's problems. I received emails from a local news reporter wanting to know where I obtained my 1991 news reports on Gilyard's past. I wrote quite a few articles back then criticizing the church, its deacons and lay leaders that knew of Gilyard's past but didn't inform their members. I also reported on the ONE local pastor who did dare to confront Gilyard when he shoed up to pastor Shiloh - this pastor was banned from the property for daring to personally confront Gilyard and tell him he was unqualified to pastor a church.

Entertained said...

My point is that Patterson takes a lot of heat. His critics expend a considerable amount of resources by targeting him instead of fixing blame on others.

Patterson's point is correct. How many lines did you write about Patterson when compared to others?

If a pastor is being criticized for serving Jesus then, yes, he should "turn the other cheek." If he or his family is otherwise attacked, I think that he has the right to declare war and use every legal resource available to stop the problem.

The critics should write with knowledge that they might be held accountable for their words. That seems fair to me.

Write what you wish, just know you are responsible for your words.

Arce said...

When a pastor has abused his authority and has caused harm to people, particularly by sexual abuse, then not speaking out against it is a failure to do what we are called to do, to come to the aid of the vulnerable and protect them. That is the complaint against Patterson, and others, in the Gilyard matter. However, Patterson was presented with multiple complaints against Gilyard and refused to even consider them, instead continuing to recommend him to churches where Gilyard abused additional victims.

Speaking out against the failures of Patterson, and of others who knew or should have known that Gilyard was/is a sexual predator, is an obligation supported by scripture and is not an attack but a truth telling.

Not speaking out when we know something is wrong or that someone has caused harm or endorsed one who has and is causing harm, particularly if that someone is in a position

Anonymous said...

Watchdog,

Make your posts shorter. It takes too long to read all this.

22 words or less makes a good post.

Anonymous said...

Watchdog: Write what you wish. I find them interesting and informative. Thanks. Lets see now thats twenty two words! Barely made it.

Anonymous said...

Having been a victim of a "church leadership smear machine", I can tell you they are rarely innocent. They just use the "church" position of "righteousness" to accomplish their end.

In addition, might I say, "watch what preachers/ deacons and leadership do". What they say is often "cover" and diversionary. What they DO is what really matters. What they do and what they say are all too often different scenarios.

Believers are beginning to read their own Bibles and are discovering that many times they have been mislead about doctrines and truths. Believers are waking up, studying their Bibles, and finding that they can't always "trust" the man in the pulpit. This is why it is so important to "try the spirits". Is the preacher/speaker/leader trustworthy? Does what is being spoken agree with the Bible. If there are questions....go with the Bible. Man is fallible, the Bible is perfect truth.

Anonymous said...

"I doubt that Patterson was the only preacher that gave Gilyard the benefit of the doubt. Patterson was probably one of the most prominent that stuck his neck out."


Actually, this goes way back. Patterson know there were "problems" all the way back to Criswell College days. Yet, Patterson promoted Gilyard as his protege. And over the years continued to protect him. Even when women came forward and spoke to him personally about it. Patterson continued to defend and did not investigate their accusations.

Now, Patterson would love for us to believe he was very distanced from the situation. And many fall for it. LIke you

Anonymous said...

Entertained.

I do hold Patterson much more responsible for Gilyard than the deacons or youth minister. He knew about Gilyard from Criswell College. He had women go to him for help dealing with Gilyard. He had all the dots to connect. The deacons and youth minister had no way of knowing all the information that Patterson had. Patterson had the power to stop it without any threat to himself professionally. He over and over did nothing. I agree that the youth minister and deacons should have said/done something but that was one instance while Patterson had numerous instances of turning away.

Thy Peace said...

All below links from Grace and Truth to You [Pastor Wade Burleson]:

The Sordid and Strange Darrell Gilyard Story and What It Reveals About the SBC [SEPTEMBER 09, 2008].

Walking Where SBC Preachers Fail to Tread [MAY 18, 2009].

Abuse of Authority: It Must Not Be Ignored [MARCH 28, 2009].

The Problem of a Predator In the Pulpit in the SBC [MARCH 09, 2008].

Thy Peace said...

All the below links from this blog:

Soaring High: One Person Can Make a Difference [MAY 18, 2009].

Examples of the Poor Treatment of Women at the Hands of Jacksonville Churches [DECEMBER 19, 2008].

Some Observations... [DECEMBER 31, 2007].

Gilyard's Ugly Past [DECEMBER 27, 2007].

One Bright Spot in the Gilyard Story [DECEMBER 25, 2007].

Gilyard: Text Messages and "Sexual Encounters"...Here We Go Again? [DECEMBER 24, 2007].

Gilyard's Past: You're Telling Me Nobody Knew???? [DECEMBER 22, 2007].

Baptist Pastor Stays On Paid Leave... [DECEMBER 22, 2007].

Anonymous said...

As information, Mr. Troy Taylor Vice Chairman of Ushers for almost 50 years at FBCJ died Monday. All that knew Troy knew he was the "real deal". A WWII veteran and a man of great character. He was always at his post come rain or shine. It was a pleasure to know him and work alongside of him for many, many years. He was a unique and gifted man that loved the Lord and people. He consistently had a smile on his face and a ready handshake for all. He will be greatly missed. I feel that both Dr Lindsays met him at the Eastern Gate.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Thanks for letting us know, Anon.

Anybody connected with FBCJ knows what a wonderful ministry the ushers have at that church. Some outside of FBCJ might find that funny, "ushering" being a ministry, but the ushers at FBCJ have a real ministry and its been that way for decades and decades.

Entertained said...

I wish I knew how you guys seem to know exactly what these preachers knew for fact, and when they knew it.

If it were me getting smeared, I might not be inclined to turn the other cheek. I might find a way to make you back your words.

Totally irresponsible post.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Entertained,

There is much documented evidence of what Patterson knew and when. Just because it bothers you doesn't make it false. Facts are facts.

Arce said...

Sorry Entertained, but it is a totally responsible post. We are to use our discernment to confront the brother who persists in sin and that is Patterson in the matter of Gilyard. Refused to believe that his protege was a real creep when repeatedly told so by the women and teenage girls he had abused. That is SIN and he does not belong in any position of leadership as a result. Get real about how Gilyard was able to continue for many years after Patterson had reason to know but refused to see -- he had Patterson's endorsement.

Patterson aided and abetted sexual abuse of women and teenage girls, plain and simple.

Junkster said...

Anonymous said...
Watchdog,
Make your posts shorter. It takes too long to read all this.
22 words or less makes a good post.
January 13, 2010 11:12 AM



Short attention span, huh? Too much tweeting will do that to ya...

jer1022 said...

Most of you guys posting here seem to be out to attack pastors/clergy! They are human, just like you and I are and they are NOT perfect. Yes, they are going to make mistakes just like we do. Their problem is that many of mistakes they make (things they say and some of their actions) are public. Where is grace? I am so glad Jesus doesn't attack my mistakes! Of course, if there would have been computers back then, I am sure Jesus (who was perfect) would have had plenty of bloggers, and most of them probably would have been anonymous too!

Anonymous said...

Jer1022: Pastors and clergy are supposed to be more concerned about how they treat others than mere congregants who never had seminary training and schools of higher learning. Maybe this explains it all.

In addition, what do you think spiritual discernment is? It certainly is not used by many supporters of "wayward clergy". In Gilyard's case, he was a predator. But some still backed him. What you must understand, in many cases, preachers "stick together" as to present a united front. Even covering for each others mistakes. After all if one looks bad then they think it hurts them all. And quite often it does. But, it is much worse when some preachers continue to support the "wrong guys". And in addition some in leadership positions will not admit when they have made a less than stellar choice when "calling" a preacher to a church. They find out later, but then say well we must "live" with the choice, give him our support, anything else would just "hurt the church". What is worse for a church than the wrong preacher? Please keep in mind that not all preachers are called by God. Some just get in a lucrative business, and "call" themselves to a ministry.

Anonymous said...

Most of you guys posting here seem to be out to attack pastors/clergy! They are human, just like you and I are and they are NOT perfect. Yes, they are going to make mistakes just like we do."

A mistake is spilling your milk or a typo. We are talking about willful, continual sin. Defending a predator minister is serious business.

Funny how so many professing Christians view willfull sin as a 'mistake'. That cheapens HIS Blood.

Rick Warren started referring to sin as mistakes 30 years ago and it has made it's way as a normal Christian practice. Perhaps if we viewed our sins as what they really mean, we would be convicted to actually repent. But when they are called mistakes, it sounds like sin is simply accidental. I did not mean to molest that girl...huh?

So, Ananias and Sapphira just made a"mistake" when they lied?

Gene S said...

Paige Patterson could sell sandals to Eskimos!!!

Only a man totally paranoid could convince himself that he is so right God is on his side at all times.

I once had an old maid aunt who could, with tears in her eyes, tell the most outlandish tales that anyone not checking the facts would certainly believe she was telling the truth.

When I checked facts about a tale she told about my father, it was so totally untrue it should land her in the firest of Hell,
BUT it still cost my father $10,000 to solve without further legal problems.

Which proves:

(1) A good lyar is hard to detect.

(2) Even when detected and proven wrong, they can still cost you money to just get rid of their sorry lying mouth!

I am confident God will straighten his mess out eventually and he may be in for a surprise. Until then, remember Jesus' words about wolves in sheep's clothing---BEWARE!!!!

Entertained said...

Arce - Site some relevent fact. A news story, the date an event occurred, a credible quotation from a directly involved person...anything.

You do not have it and neither does anyone else. That is my point. Responsible writers will provide accurate references or will state opinion or editorial. Opinion is little more than fiction and most of the identified links between Gilyard and Patterson are opinion and worse. Most of the posts in here are intended to inflict damage to someone. In my opinion, the posts are horrible. For certain there is little factual basis. You might as well report that Patterson is from Mars.

If you know that someone is, in fact, breaking a law or behaves in a manner that is injurious to others then you have a resposiblity to report it. Otherwise, stop spreading gossip, which is to say "false witness."

Let me just point out that false witness literally means to say something without having first hand knowledge. If you guess, and happen to tell the truth by lottery, then you still bear false witness. You were not there. You do not know what Patterson knew... for a fact.

You get it now?