"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Thursday, February 4, 2010

A Clear Difference in Doctrine

This week the discussion of the storehouse tithe spilled over into to two popular blogs written by Southern Baptist pastors. WD Readers who honestly are seeking the answer to the questions of whether this storehouse tithing doctrine is biblical should read carefully both of these articles and the associated string of comments:



What a contrast:

Says Puryear: "I fear they are treading dangerously closely to antinomianism. Nowhere in the NT is the command to tithe removed. As a matter of fact, not only did Jesus not remove the law, He made it more stringent (commit adultery when you lust, murder when you hate someone, etc.)." [link to antinomianism is mine, not Les']

Says Burleson: "Simply put, in the New Covenant agreement with God, you LISTEN TO HIM AS TO HOW YOU GIVE YOUR MONEY AWAY. There is no law. There is no code. There is the Spirit. Hear Him. And, by the way, the Spirit of God leading His people brings about powerful, even miraculous, things in this world. Those who obey the Spirit aren't antinomion at all--they are Spirit led. "

Burleson describes his view very well from scripture. He says it lovingly and clearly, even gives room to accept Puryear's viewpoint. Full of truth, yet full of grace. Burleson's blog is called "Grace and Truth to You"...it just hit me, this is why Burleson's blog is so popular amongst lay people - he is very conservative in his doctrine, yet his writing is full of grace. You don't see that too often these days in conservative, fundamental evangelical circles: truth AND grace.

Contrast this with the other side on this argument. Puryear says we are close to antinomianism. To pull out the "antinomianism" card in this debate is to accuse those who disagree with Puryear as believing Christians don't need to adhere to basic laws of morals and ethics. How ridiculous. Now we are anti-law and anti-ethics to dare to question Puryear's doctrine. The one thing I like about these hard-core storehouse tithers is their "creativity" in taking their illogical viewpoints to new heights.

In his comments section, Puryear sidesteps my honest questions challenging his views on storehouse tithing. Puryear even uses the "church autonomy" argument for avoiding any discussion of Gaines' abusive comments about non-tithers driving stolen cars.

On one hand, this debate is over. Its been settled in the minds of lay people for a long time, and they know their pastors are blowing hot air when it comes to storehouse tithing. 97% of lay people believe Burleson, because 97% of born again believers do not practice storehouse tithing. They never have and they never will. Its been that way ever since evangelicals started pushing this doctrine over 100 years ago.

And you say "We don't gauge truth by how many people obey it". True, but we're not saying 97% of Christians give nothing...no, most Christians obey the New Testament and give very generously, just not up to the phony standards set up by Puryear and Gaines and others. Americans in general, and Christian Americans in particular are the most generous people on earth.

Even non-believing Americans know its right to be generous as the New Testament tells us, as evidenced by their rush to do everything they can to help people in Haiti. We Christians are generous in our giving of finances, and in giving of our time to charitable work in and out of the church. We know that "the church" is not just the 501(c)3 organization to which we belong, but that it is the entire sphere of believing Christians. We know that our generosity includes our local assembly of believers, but should extend out to the universal church - oh, yeah, and to the poor and the orphans and the widows.

So while even the unbelievers are doing everything they can to compel people to give as much as possible to the relief effort in Haiti, its the fundamentalist Christians who are stuck in their "less than 10% to your church is 100% disobedience" mindset - some, like Gaines, are busy compeling already generous Christians to give nothing to Haiti, but give more to their pastor's church budget (which is 50% salaries and 25% buildings). They use their storehouse tithing doctrine to fill up THEIR church coffers FIRST, teaching that only the gifts above 10% can go to Haiti.

How sad that non-believers understand more clearly the New Testament teaching on grace giving than do self-professed bible experts like Gaines and Puryear.

Oh, and one more thing that points to Gaines and Puryear being wrong on the storehouse tithing doctrine, and Burleson being right:

John MacArthur agrees with Wade Burleson, not with Les Puryear and Steve Gaines.

:)

55 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's been said: when you have the facts pound the facts, when you don't have the facts - pound the table. Puryear's antinomianism line is pounding the table.

Well written post.

Thy Peace said...

I am copying a comment made by Pastor Wade Burleson about the word order of Grace and Truth to You.
-----------------------------------
Wade Burleson said...
Mr. Anonymous,

Just an encouragement to remember that the only description we have of Christ is that he was full of "grace and truth." Word order is important. Grace first.

Yet truth must be spoken.

So, thank you for the complement. I do love and respect all my brothers in Christ, even those who disagree with me, and I am glad my spirit in this matter is recognized by you.

MON DEC 12, 06:29:00 PM 2005
.
-----------------------------------

Joe Blackmon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

A clear problem with this "robbing of God" in the NT covenant is: the lost world sees this as phony. And, it is phony. But, to a lost person if they deem this constant "money-grab", coming from preachers as phony then, IF these same preachers EVER preach about Salvation, you know...."You must be born again"....then these same lost people arn't going to believe Salvation messages either. So this constant MAJORING on "storehouse tithing" becomes a stumbling block to lost people getting SAVED. Some just view this DEMAND for your money as the main thing preachers "tout" and they don't want any part of a church. I understand this. I have been saved many years, never have I seen such anger and sheep beating over money in my entire time in an SBC church. I don't want any part in it either. I did tithe for many years until I really studied it for myself. It always bothered me as being false but I trusted my preacher. Now I trust Gods word. I help people without jobs, food or any resources, as much as I can. I always point to Jesus when I do. They get the help and they get the Gospel also. Try it you'll like it. The church is NOT the only place where Jesus is taught. Indeed some church's barely mention Jesus. But they sure want the "storehouse tithe".

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Nice try, Joe.

If analyzing and critiquing a person's words is "running them down", then you sir are the chief bull dozer operator as you take every chance you get to run down your fellow SBC pastor Wade Burleson, who I believe also is a "godly man".

You mention my pastor. No, my pastor has no anonymous blogs about him. Very few pastors do, actually. And my pastor knows who I am, he knows of my blog, and we've met numerous times with he and another staff member. He has shared his heart with me, I with him, and although he doesn't agree with me and my methods he has expressed his love for me and for my wife and my kids. He reached out to me and my family in love and kindness, and has said is door is always open if I need to speak to him.

Actually, my pastor probably has more to fear from hypocrite pastors like you who might chastise him for actually extending love and grace to me and my family.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

And its Mac Brunson, Joe, not Mac Burlson.

Joe, can you change your picture back to your super hero outfit in tights? I really liked that one.

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

"How sad that non believers understand the New Testament teaching on grace giving than do self-professed bible experts like Gaines and Puryear."


Dr Dog don't let these guys fool you!

They know exactly what the argument is;their not ignorant men!

They just can't Biblically defend the tithe on the N.T.Church so they resort to empty threats of God's vengence or some type of faulty opinions or surmisings!!

Please don't under estimate these men.

If they are constanly "ALWAYS" beating and threating people about money you can bet that there is covetous motive!!!

If they all so concerned about Church finances,then why don't they cut their "SIX-FIGURED SALARIES" and perks???

Joe Blackmon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

Joe maybe you can enlighten all of us who are ignorant too the tithe.

Please tell us why pastor's only preach on one tithe(10%)and not three tithes that were enforced by the Law on the Jewish people!!!

It appears that no one else that comes to this blog and that support the tithe,has attempted to answer that question;maybe you can!!!

Anonymous said...

"But for someone with zero intergrity to run down a godly person like Les..."
__________________________________

Enough with calling a man "Godly." I have never met or seen or heard about a "Godly" man, except the man Jesus Christ. Some nice guys sure. Some committed Christians sure. Some men, like Homer Lindsay, Jr. who loved Jesus, sure. But those men are not "Godly" in any way shape or form. They are sinners whose righteousness is like filthy rags. Bob Gray was a godly man right? Jimmy Swaggart too?

Come on. Get real. A man who thinks himself "Godly" just disqualified himself for consideration. And to think another man to be "Godly", well you might as well go get his autograph.

Mother Teresa was as close to a "Godly women" as I have ever heard about, and she was clear about her own shortcomings and doubts and never once called herself a "Godly women."

Paul described himself as "chief" among sinners. "Godly men?" No. No. No. Wake up church!

Anonymous said...

He better cross his t's and dot his lower case j's cause Tommy Rich is watchin'!!
__________________________________

Joe - you seem to be nervous about your own actions being discussed on a blog so you assume Tom's pastor would be also. Jesus is watching, a congregation of thousands are watching, the city of Jacksonville is watching. Who cares about what "tommy rich" is watching. After the abuses Tom has seen from nepotism and financial waste and sheep beating from Brunson, I would doubt there is hardly anything any other pastor could do to get Tom's concern or attention.

And it is the laymen who should be scared, right? I mean look what happened at Three Rivers and FBC Jax last time some laypeople tried to ask the pastor about his actions.

Russell Earl Kelly said...

You should try to dialog with SBC Today's Tim Guthrie. First, he deletes all posts which prove him wrong; second, he attacks the posts he has deleted; third, he claims that he is not representing the SBC even though the name of his blog is SBC Today.

Anonymous said...

"And it doggone well BETTER be, huh? LOL"

You're right Joe!

Or else WD might kick him out of the church and serve him (and his family) with tresspass papers to make sure he never returns.

Oh wait a minute...

Been There, Heard That said...

Russel Earl Kelley,

Welcome to the world of SBC Fundamentalism.

Thy Peace said...

Grace and Truth to You [Wade Burleson] > Grace and Truth [APRIL 04, 2006].

Anonymous said...

There is a lot of discussion on this blog about storehouse tithing and such.

I am not opposed to the topic and am glad that some have taken it up.

However, do any of you really get involved in discussions about this kind of stuff? I have never been in a church that did and just wondered.

Louis

Thy Peace said...

I posted a comment on Les Puryear's post, linking Wade Burleson's post. It stayed up for one hour, but now is gone. Les Puryear definitely deleted it.

Anonymous said...

Thou shalt pay no "less per year" than 10% or is it 23.3%?

Joe Blackmon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I would just let him go, Thy Peace.

Joe is exactly what this blog is all about. Pastors who have a general disdain for the laity, can't stand anyone to hold secondary doctrines that oppose theirs, and they will not hesitate to ridicule you if you oppose them.

Love ya, brother Joe. Your sarcastic words are teaching us how to discern between wolves who eat the flock and true humble servant shepherds.

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

"I would just let him go, Thy Peace.

Joe is exactly what this blog is all about. Pastors who have a general disdain for the laity, can't stand anyone to hold secondary doctrines that oppose theirs, and they will not hesitate to ridicule you if you oppose them."


Joe you appear to have much to say,yet nothing to say in answering my February 4, 2010 10:59AM challenge!

Les Puryear said...

Thy Peace,

Yes, I did delete your link to Burleson's post. Why? Because there already was a link to his post in another comment.

You have a propensity to do nothing but link to other's people's thoughts instead of speaking your own. I don't want multiple copies of the same link on the thread.

Scared Monkey,

Your intentional slander of my last name is just disrespectful and unchristian. I am proud of my name and the many godly men and women who have had it. For you to purposely defame my surname is to castigate my heritage. You crossed the line on that one and I don't appreciate it.

Also, the only link I deleted was the duplicated link from Thy Peace. I did not delete the link from Wade that appears at the bottom of my blog. First, I don't how to do delete that kind of link and second, I don't mind the increased traffic from Wade's blog.

Pastor Rod,

Just so you know, I am a pastor of a small church and do not have a six figure salary nor any perks.

To all,

When someone sounds a warning that someone else is moving dangerously close to a viewpoint that has been historically viewed as heretical, perhaps you might entertain the possibility that the warning comes from someone who actually cares for the person. If my granddaughter was moving close to the road, I will warn her to move away because I love her and don't want her to get hurt.

And so, rather than jumping to the conclusion that Les Puryear is an enemy to be attacked, perhaps you may wish to consider that I am sincerely warning Tom and the Bellevue criticizers that they are treadin in dangerous waters theologically.

If my manner is not as syrupy sweet as Wade's, then so be it. For me to emulate Wade's approach would be disingenuous and dishonest because that is not me. Whether you like me or not is not my concern. What is my concern is that I proclaim God's Word as best as I can as led by the Holy and Spriit and strive to be open and honest and never phoney.

I've said my peace and so if you wish to continue trashing me, then go ahead. I leave that between you and God.

Regards,

Les

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Les - you know that the storehouse tithing doctrine is not something that is a long-standing church doctrine, and that those who oppose it are historically heretics. You attributed my views on this as being antinomianistic, which I assume is what you are talking about being heretical. But that is a huge jump.

I deleted the SM comment...I didn't notice that he purposely misspelled your name to make fun of it, but I have removed the post. Perhaps you should tell your friend Blackmon to stop calling people names in his comments too.

And thanks for the warning...what exactly should I be looking out for, will God be visiting his wrath on me for daring to say that he doesn't view non-tithers as robbers? Or is it because I'm not showing due respect to "God's man"? Heart attack, maybe? What about a brain tumor? Maybe you could intercede on my behalf.

Joe Blackmon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Thy Peace said...

That's a good one Joe. You do have a good sense of humor.

Anonymous said...

Anyone notice that with all of their sarcasm, mean-spirited ad hominem attacks, and veiled threats of God's vengence (for the sin of not agreeing with them) - that pastors Les and Joe are still not able to answer the question of when the amount to be paid to the storehouse was changed from 23.3% in the OT to 10% in the NT.

It's almost as if they are trying to muddy the waters so that no one notices that they can't back up their theology biblically.

Lydia said...

"You have a propensity to do nothing but link to other's people's thoughts instead of speaking your own. I don't want multiple copies of the same link on the thread. "

You just have not been reading enough. I have seen his views and questions quite a bit. And some of us love his links and appreciate them. We even gave him a nickname of Thy Link to show our gratitude.

That was a pretty cruel thing for a pastor to say to someone. I am a bit taken aback at you for this.
I have never read a cruel or mean word from Thy Peace in the time he has been around.

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

"POINT PROVEN" All these defenders of the tithe come to this blog and pontificate on everything under the sun,yet not one will dare attempt to answer one simple question posed by many bloggers here!!!

Lets try this again.

WHY DO PASTOR'S PREACH ONE TITHE WHEN THERE WERE THREE?

AND WHY IS NOT THE N.T.CHURCH UNDER ALL THREE???

Isn't there a curse on anyone that takes away from the Scriptures?

Yet consistantly all of these tithe teachers are leaving out two other tithes!

If anything Pastor Les you and all the other preachers are guilty of taking away from the Scripture's don't you think???

And therefore basically putting yourself's under that curse;You think???

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Lydia - you are so right. All of us at times go over board with our comments, but Thy Peace has never, ever, not one time said anything nasty to anyone. Always kind and full of grace. And many, many of his posts at Wade's blog are insightful and show a Christian who is growing and learning.

I appreciate Thy Peace so very much on this blog and others.

For this preacher Joe Blackmon to speaking like this is sick. But its not surprising. The more we hear some of these preachers talk, the more we see what's in their hearts.

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

"Anyone notice that with all of their sarcasm, mean-spirited ad hominem attacks, and veiled threats of God's vengence (for the sin of not agreeing with them) - that pastors Les and Joe are still not able to answer the question of when the amount to be paid to the storehouse was changed from 23.3% in the OT to 10% in the NT."

February 4, 2010 4:12 PM



That's because they "CAN'T" answer the question Anon!!!

Thy Peace said...

Thanks Lydia for your support. I sometimes do get upset. About two posts ago I did call someone a moron. I later regretted it.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

OK, one time I did see you call someone a moron. But that was one post out of hundreds. Joe Blackmon is the chief bull dozer operator, running people down day after day. And he especially likes to run over Wade and anyone who likes Wade, and it upsets Joe when Wade doesn't take him on. Wade just smiles and returns grace for Joe's vitriol.

Anonymous said...

"When someone sounds a warning that someone else is moving dangerously close to a viewpoint that has been historically viewed as heretical, perhaps you might entertain the possibility that the warning comes from someone who actually cares for the person. "

Les, With all due respect, you came here and called those who do not believe there is a tithe in the NC, Antinomians. You accused them of being lawless. That is pretty serious.

What you did NOT do, as a shepherd, is make your case from the Word. A warning is meaningless unless you can make the case that we are, indeed, lawless.

I hope you understand that no one here is making the case for NO giving to brothers and sisters in need. That is not tithing as outlined in the OC. That is giving as taught and modeled in the NC.

And, I hope you will not be offended but when it is a person who makes his living off teaching there is a tithe, it is a bit suspicious when they resort to name calling those who do not make their living off teaching a tithe system but believe in giving.

You may not want to take the time but please refrain from name calling as a shepherd if you are not willing to stick around and make the case for a tithing system in the NC.

Some shepherds are very offended when what they consider the laity have studied and come to a different conclusion.

Matt

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

"I appreciate "Thy Peace" so very much on this blog and others.


My sentiments "EXACTLY" Dr.Dog!!!

I go over-board sometimes myself,but thats a man for ya!

But the spiritual grow of Thy Peace from the first time you began to blog can only be the miracle of Christ!!!

You My friend have taught me a lot and keep at it!!!

LOVE YOU THY PEACE!!!

Lydia said...

Thanks Lydia for your support. I sometimes do get upset. About two posts ago I did call someone a moron. I later regretted it.

February 4, 2010 4:18 PM

I missed that one. Good thing you had godly sorrow for it!

BTW: Joe is not a pastor. He is an auditor. That would explain his grouchiness. Right, Joe?

Joe Blackmon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Wade Burleson said...

Joe,

I have never met Thy Peace. I have never spoken on the phone with Thy Peace. Other than the comments he leaves on my blog and a few others that I follow, I have exchanged one email with him. I was seeking to hear his story.

The incredible story of Thy Peace, a man whose family is from India, has warmed my heart. He testified of coming to faith in Christ and of growing and learning of our Lord Jesus through watching Southern Baptist pastors and preachers on the Internet. I, like Lydia and Tom, have learned a great deal from his comments. It is an honor for me to call this brother in Christ an Internet friend.

And it is an equql pleasure to remind Thy Peace that our friend, Joe Blackmon, is not a Southern Baptist Christian.

In His Grace,

Wade

Anonymous said...

"And it is an equal pleasure to remind Thy Peace that our friend, Joe Blackmon, is not a Southern Baptist Christian."

Best news I've heard all day!

Scared Monkey said...

Lesse,

Sincere Alabama apologies. Never again shall this Crimson fan slander thee using the Dog deleted last name of the earlier comment.

I now christen thee Mr. Lesse "Your 10%" Per Year.

Anonymous said...

I saw over on Les's blog today that he plans to finally address the question that we have been asking for weeks.

Well not exactly, "a response is being planned"

So, Baptists have been teaching a 10% tithe for 100 years and they aren't prepared at this time to give a biblical defense of it?

That's kind of putting the cart before the horse isn't it?

Or is it that they need to some time to dig through the Bible and find a pretext for their unsupported teaching?

The other thing that caused me to laugh was watching them try to skirt around the fact that one of the most respected Bible teachers in the world disagrees with them.

He said that it was ok if Dr. MacArthur wanted to teach that to his church but not if he tried to spread it to others.

So, heresy is ok if you keep it inside your own church?

And last time I checked Dr. MacArthur has a national radio audience.

I fear word may have already slipped outside the church walls.

Anonymous said...

Brother Tom,

You, my friend, have hit a big nerve in the church ministry "business". You are talking about their pocketbooks now and they are not going to stand for it. So, they call you a sinner...a man who is lawless. They forget, in their bubble, that this only works with their sheeple. They need to stay in their bubble and warn their sheeple it is a sin to read blogs.

That is a sort of Christian protection racket. Call it a big nasty name and warn folks they are in sin for even thinking of not paying their 'protection' money.

Entertained said...

Here is the deal...

If you drive around in a late model car, have your kids in private school, have all the latest electronincs, take your disney vacation a couple of times a year and forget to put something in the offering plate...you are a dead beat.

10% or 2% whatever your fixation, you are a dead beat. If your feeble mind tells you to designate your offering to some cause then make sure it is over and above your tithe. Do not put yourself and your church in a fix with a designated tithe. Not all "charitable" giving is tax deductable. You want to designate your giving through the church and have to hire a team of accountants to figure what is and is not deductable?

Pen to one side and ink to the other. Less mess less spills.

Dr. Fill said...

Hmmm,can't justify calling "sinner" so we'll try "dead beat". Pitiful.

Thy Peace said...

Please read this comment, of Les Puryear on his blog post.

Wow!

I am speculating he might bring a motion to the SBC about this issue.

About the rise of antinomian tendencies amongst SBC.

Byroniac said...

Hmmm... Guess if you haven't been fundamentalist bulldozed by the TRUTH(TM)(C)(R) lately, then you aren't intimately acquainted enough with it. And I think it's funny that ecclesiology, which seems to me is one of the least well-defined points of doctrine in the NT, is the very area so many obsess over and manufacture rules book by book concerning. Yowza, give it a rest already...

I wish I were as gracious as Wade Burleson, Thy Peace, and others have been. Kudos to them all.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Yes, by all means, we need to vote a motion to stop the antinomiananisnsm. Its a topic on everyone's mind. They must be stopped.

Maybe we could vote to set up a database to track all antinomainaismsns Christians in the SBC. Les "10 percent" Puryear could administer the database.

But if the antinomainsismsnsitc person is a sexual predator, that will create a problem, since we don't want to be tracking sexual predators.

Go get 'em Les!

Anonymous said...

Dear Entertained - you wrote: "10% or 2% whatever your fixation, you are a dead beat. If your feeble mind tells you to designate your offering to some cause then make sure it is over and above your tithe."
___________________________________

Please tell me where the Bible (OT or NT) tells me I am to give 10% of my wages to the local body of new testament believers? Not where Jesus told hypocritical pharisees not to neglect tithing their cumin and other spices. Not where Abraham tithed the spoils of war, not where Israelites brought food to the Levitical priests to support them and give the rest to the poor, but where anyone, at anytime, ever gave 10% of their money to a local group of believers. As soon as I hear that, I will worry about what percentage I am actually giving (maybe more maybe less) and whether I need to give above that to help others in need.

crickets chirping...

And by the way, if you can't show me where it is, why do you demand I do it? Let me guess, a preacher who spends that money told you that you were obligated to do so?

And we are "deadbeats" if we give 8%? Really. Wow.

Anonymous said...

Les - preach the word brother. How bout a resolution or response head on about that. If in preaching the word, we see anything even remotely related to us giving 10% of our wages to the local body of new testament believers, we will do so. If it is not there, no resolution will get us to do so. Why not elect a pope to tell us that we must tithe or be declared heretics?

I thought you could do better than that Les. So disappointing.

Anonymous said...

I've never enjoyed writing a check to any of the churches I've gone to as much as I have writing them to individuals in need.

Thy Peace said...

Grace and Truth to You [Wade Burleson] > Free From the Law Oh Blessed Condition! The Reasons You Should Welcome the Charge of Antinomianism.
There is a tendency among some brothers in the Southern Baptist Convention to call "antinomian" (i.e. "against the law") those Christians who don't hold to certain hard and fast "rules" or "laws" those brothers wish to impose on everyone. For example, in a recent discussion over "tithing," one pastor called "antinomian" those Christians who disagreed with his belief that God's "law" demands every believer give 10% of gross income to the local church. This Southern Baptist pastor then writes, "Antinomianism has raised a huge red flag to me and many other pastors. We will ... sound the alarm which will reverberate throughout the SBC to face this issue head on."

Anonymous said...

10:55 "Why not elect a pope etc.,etc.": SOME CHURCHS HAVE ONE ALREADY!!


11:03: "I've never enjoyed writing a check etc., etc.":

Me either!! Here's a thought; Checks written to charity or to churchs, are usually TAX DEDUCTIBLE!!! When one gives to individuals in need, "out of pocket" so to speak, groceries,medical aid, etc., it usually isn't TAX DEDUCTIBLE. Also, NO ONE USUALLY KNOWS ABOUT IT. MOTIVES...MOTIVES... So why do some people insist 10% to the church? Could it be someone is trying to impress/please the preacher, who we think LOOKS at the record, or at least has a list given to him by someone. Is it because we want to be singled out and "ACKNOWLEDGED" by the preacher. Maybe so everyone else can see the preacher slap one on the back and shake hands, maybe exchange a few words. Then everyone sees (said person) is a FRIEND of the preacher. Just look how preacher walked out of his way to say hello to me. WOW. "I'am a good friend of the preacher". Maybe you might get your business recognized during one of the services.
There are people in the world that don't CARE who you are or arn"t, they just need help.
Well, guess who sees you give to a person down on their luck? The one that has lost the job. Just trying to hold on until they can get up on their feet again. The one trying to get medical help for the sick child, or enough food to eat for a few days. JESUS sees that. JESUS knows that. Thats what JESUS approves of, not these rich and famous trip taking, gated community, luxury car driving, "preachers"(?).... Here's the way it is, as long as there is suffering within my immediate eyesight, I won't give a dime to a preacher that makes more on speeches, books, and luxury trips they get PAID to host, out of town "speaking engagements", while they are supposed to be preaching at their own church, where they are paid to be. etc. on and on. My OVER THE TITHE 10% will go to help someone. And by so doing hope the recipients SEE JESUS, because I VISIT them and tell them about JESUS. I let them know JESUS loves them and so do I. I will be GLAD to answer to the LORD for why I don't give money to preachers beating me up for it, and who DON'T usually preach much (in my opinion) about JESUS, but try to put me back under the OT LAW. Wish I could be as "kind" verbally as Thy Peace", but I've always said it like it is.

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

New day(02/05/10),Old challenge!

Can anyone out there who supports tithing(Les,Joe,anyone),please,please,please explain to us antinomians why there is only a 10% obligation on the Church,as you believe it to be,and not a 23% obligation as the Old Testament demanded!!!

PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE answer this one question for us heretics who believe that we are dead to the Law,but alive to Christ!!!

Also give Scripture references,not conjectures,opinions or surmisings!!!

Thanks!!!!!!

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Anyone notice that with all of their sarcasm, mean-spirited ad hominem attacks, and veiled threats of God's vengence (for the sin of not agreeing with them) - that pastors Les and Joe are still not able to answer the question of when the amount to be paid to the storehouse was changed from 23.3% in the OT to 10% in the NT."

...

{sound of crickets chirping}

...

{raises hand}

...

Word verification: lesten

Ironic much?

Byroniac said...

Dr. Russ Kelly pointed out something else interesting that I did not realize: Abraham did not pay tithes out of his own money, but from war spoils. And, the action was never repeated that I know of in the Scriptures. So a one-time precedent of paying war spoils (and not personal money) in tithes constitute an argument for NC tithing, exactly how? Hmmm....

Thy Peace said...

This is a copy of Byroniac's comment. And it also explains why Les Puryear was somewhat miffed about these posts on tithing in this blog.
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Byroniac said...
Les Puryear's comment surprised me and causes me concern for the SBC. What also concerns me in relation to this is a fact that Dr. Russ Kelly on his website brought up: the existence of an official SBC policy document mandating that its employees endorse the pro-tithing position. Not to be a Chicken Little on this topic, but I'm guessing this could have major shakedown potential. I'm concerned for my friends in the SBC on this issue (and others) for future tests of fellowship and potential division.

SBC Position paper.

FRI FEB 05, 11:59:00 PM 2010
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