"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Tuesday, August 24, 2010

Making Environmentalists and Muslims Mad at the Same Time

A story is developing where a local open burning ordinance may prevent a Gainesville, FL church from carrying out its "Koran Burning" ceremony scheduled for September 11, 2010.

Hey, why doesn't Dove World Outreach Pastor Terry Jones do this in an environmentally responsible manner? Why make the Muslims AND the environmentalists mad at the same time?

Why not have a Koran SHREDDING service? Everyone can bring their shredders from home, and they can each run the pages through a shredder, then use the shreddings for kitty litter.

Or why not have a "Koran Dumping service" where everyone symbollically throws the Korans in a big 'ole Waste Management dumpster and haul them to the landfill?

As reported by VERTEX News:
"City officials in Gainesville, Florida have denied a burning permit to a local church that wants to burn copies of the Koran on the anniversary of 9-11. The Dove World Outreach Center announced the planned Koran burning last month on Facebook and urged other religious groups to join in, quote, "in remembrance of the fallen victims of 9/11 and to stand against the evil of Islam." Gainesville officials say book burnings like the one planned by the Dove World Outreach Center are prohibited under the city's burning ordinance. Interim Fire Chief Gene Prince warned Wednesday that the church would face a fine if it went ahead with the burning of the Korans on 9-11. That doesn't appear to be deterring Senior Dove World Pastor Terry Jones. The pastor, who has written a book called "Islam is of the Devil," sent out an e-mail saying the church would "still burn Korans" despite the possible consequences. The Koran burning has been condemned by a number of Muslim and Christian groups. "
Should be interesting!

Sadly, this is eliciting a response from certain militant Islamic groups who are threatening violence in Gainesville over this.

37 comments:

Anonymous said...

Sadly, they probably would not do or say anything if it was the Bible or the American Flag being burned.

God Help Us!

tikatu said...

Is this that same group that claims their motive is to show Muslims that Christ is the only way? If so, they have a terribly un-Christian way of doing so.

Personally, I think this puts them in the same crappy boat as Westboro and the people pushing the Ground Zero mosque. Yeah, they're exercising their First Amendment rights, but, in the case of both this group and Westboro, they're ignoring Christ's commandment to love your neighbor as yourself.

Anonymous said...

OFF TOPIC: Jerry Davis died Friday of cancer. Here is a link to the Gainesville Sun article that discusses this humble multi-millionaire who is one of the top 5 donors of all time to the University of Florida.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20100824/ARTICLES/100829796/1105/NEWS?p=2&tc=pg

I guess you won't hear Mac beating the sheep for money for awhile. No doubt this generous, loving man (who happened to attend A.C. Soud's sunday school class) left a very generous gift to the church in his estate planning. Mr. Davis gave $21 million to Shands just last year, and millions more over the past decade.

He will be missed by us Gators but his gifts will be used to help other cancer patients, not hoarded and blown on renovations, cruises, nepotism, and salaries. Amen.

Anonymous said...

Sheri said...

Well, I don't know if that's exactly the correct Christian response, but I do louldly applaud them taking a stand against radical Islam.

I wish more folks in Washington were this active and vocal!!

Anonymous said...

Yes, sometimes it is embarrassing to be called a Christian. And to be called a conservative. Thankfully, we don't have to be like those at Dove to be both.

Anonymous said...

I can't figure out what they hope to gain from this. Burning things we hate or even disagree with has a long history. And in most burnings the action and reaction to the burning has not been constructive but deleterious. I don't know this pastor, he is i am sure sincere, However i do not agree with his tactics.

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

"Sadly, this is eliciting a response from certain militant Islamic groups who are threatening violence in Gainesville"



I don't agree with the Koran burning,but at the same time it should surprise exactly "no one" that some Muslim are threatening violence!!!



"At least 32 killed in attack at Somali hotel" (USATODAY HEADLINE)!

Johnny D. said...

Wow. Who comes up with these ideas? Does a church planning committee actually sit around and throw out ideas like this for debate?

"Umm, I move that we burn some witches this week."

"No! Wait! I got a better idea. Let's have a Koran burning service. Yeah, that's the ticket. We'll show those Muslims!"

Having only recently returned to faith (and I do mean recently - like 3 weeks now), it is this sort of thing that makes me very reluctant to identify with any group of Christians.

I just fail to see how this at all is anything like the ideas behind the beatitudes.

Additionally, most of us know how Jesus said, "But the greatest of these is love" when asked the summation of the commandments.

I can't possibly see how burning some other group's holy book is showing love. Rather, why don't we become an Acts 2:42 church and watch them come over to Jesus because they want to know the love that we share with each other and with Jesus.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Glad to hear the news cousin Johnny about your return to faith! You'll have to share with us story of your spiritual journey the past few years.

I agree with you on this issue. And interesting that the government has said that such a burn would be unlawful, but they don't much care about that.

How does this happen?

Easy. Just a guess, but probably a pastor who is "God's man" and accountable to no one. He has a book on the evils of Islam and this is a certain way to get national news coverage (already has), and maybe sell more books and gain more personal notoriety. He'll probably be on Fox News, Larry King, etc. as another "fine example" of a Christian pastor.

Pretty sad.

Thy Peace said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

You know, burning and desecrating a person's holy book is the best way to show Christ's love and message of salvation.

Thy Peace said...

I can empathize with Anne Rice's decision to quit Christianity.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

If not for the laws and freedoms in this country enforced by the executive branch of our govt, some fundamentalist Christians would be burning people at the stake, and torturing recalcitrants to repent. Especially evil bloggers.

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

"Having only recently returned to faith (and I do mean recently - like 3 weeks now), it is this sort of thing that makes me very reluctant to identify with any group of Christians."


Glory to God for the good news Johnny D.!!!

John Wylie said...

As I recall the only burning at the stake that ever occurred was perpetrated by mainline state church denominations, not
"fundamentalists". The fundamentalists have historically been a part of the free church and not the state church movement.

My point? It's the sophisticated and not the fundamental that were at the heart of the crusades and all other atrocities done in the name of Christianity.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

John: Exactly. I was just testing you to see if you could make that distinction in church history.

You passed the test.

"We mock what we do not understand."

"I was merely probing for skeletal girth".

Johnny D. said...

Tom, I'm happy to. It's easy and short and sweet. Oh, not really. I could go on for days, but nobody wants to read that much text.

Here's what happened. I needed something more than science and myself to get through this journey. I tried it my way for almost ten years. It went well for a long time.

I went through some troubles recently (documented on my blog) and I needed to pray. "Foxhole Christian"? Maybe. I always said that sort of thing would never happen to me. Well, I wasn't being shot at, but the spiritual darts sure hurt, and when I found myself with my head down, and I wasn't sure I'd be able to lift it up again, I had no one to pray to.

That's an empty feeling. Anyhow, I started reading Scripture again. I read Luke & Acts together. Then I read Acts over and over again (my fave book)and then John and a bunch of the epistles and Psalms, and I reread my favorite Jesus book, "The Jesus I Never Knew."

I saw Jesus again - alive and anew. I got my eyes fixed on Him again. Not preachers, not the church, not humans, not the arguments for and against. None of that matters. You see, I had fallen out of love with Jesus over things that are not within my ability to control. What I had to do was spend time with Jesus and the love and hope and faith of the early church, and fall back in love with Jesus. I spent that time, and I did fall back in love!

I had to come to grips with Jesus. What do you do with Him? Something happened 2000 years ago in Israel. There's no denying that. A poor preacher turned the world upside down by dying on a Roman cross. Lots of people died on Roman crosses, but they never turned the world upside down. For 2000 years? Something happened.

Now I'm praying every day, for much of the day. Out loud! It's great, and the only way to really, truly understand how important and crucial that is - go without it for a long period of time. Wander in that desert. That place looks good at first, but eventually, it is all too barren.

I love Him! I praise Him! All glory and honor to the Father for never giving up on me. The Holy Spirit is like a heat-seeking missile. Once on your tail, LOOK OUT! And I thank each of you here that prayed for me. Thank you! Hey, FBCJ! The folks here at this blog helped bring me back! What does that mean? :-)

I can't make any promises about anything - except that I know I am in Christ, and we know that means "there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ." And we know that He came so that might "have life and have it abundantly."

We all have to do something with Jesus. It really is as basic as that old C.S. Lewis bit, "Lord, liar or lunatic?" I don't see how any honest person with a seeking heart could read Luke and Acts and walk away untouched. Absolutely this is a faith - and Jesus so admired great faith. Think of the centurion! The bleeding woman! The four guys dropping their friend through the roof! I don't have great faith, but I do have faith. It's just a little flickering flame, but there is a flame. Or as I like to say, "I have the faith of 1/100th of a mustard seed, but at least a little slice of that seed is there."

Johnny D. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Thy Peace said...

Amen.

God bless you, Johnny D.

Paula said...

Just a little something to consider:

Acts 19:19
A number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they calculated the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas.

Why did they burn them publicly, and collectively?

Anonymous said...

Johnny D I am very glad for you. One good book I recommend you or anyone else to read is "The Day Christ Died" copyright 1957 by Jim Bishop. Once you start reading it you will not be able to put it down. God bless.

BibleWheel said...

Hey Paula,

Acts 19:19
A number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they calculated the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas.

Note that it was the converts to Christ that burned their own books. It's quite a different thing to burn a book held sacred by over a billion of your fellow human beings. It is a carnal act of religious violence aimed at people with whom he disagrees. It is as far removed from the spirit of Christ as anything could be.

Paula said...

BibleWheel,

The point is that they did burn the sacred books of the people of their city, and did this publicly, which by any standard is a provocative act. Would you say, then, that it would be okay as long as the Christians doing the burning are all former Muslims?

Also, I don't think God wants us to honor the sacred books of false gods, no matter how many people follow them. Just sayin'.

Anonymous said...

Paula...This was a real REVIVAL. Those that once were lost who got saved loved the WORD OF GOD. THEY no longer desired books written by mortal men but grasped the WORD and knew the power of Jesus and his name was magnified. That is what the church needs today not some other book written by a mortal but rather the Book written by inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

Paula said...

Yes, anon... and they didn't care who they offended in proclaiming their new faith! I wish all of us would be that bold. We're too worried about offending people, and not concerned enough about offending God. When we honor the books of false gods, we dishonor the true God.

BibleWheel said...

Hey Paula,

There's nothing in Acts 19:19 that suggests to me the "curious books" were sacred in any way.

But even if they were, the burning was still being conducted by those who practiced those curious arts. To match the current situation, only Islamic converts to Christianity would be out burning their own Qurans. But that sounds like a crazy way to reach out to Muslims and it's hard to believe that any real convert would be led of God's Spirit to behave that way. This is very different than the burning of the books in Acts 19:19 which happened in the middle of a great outpouring of God's spirit, as noted by the previous poster.

So I don't see anything in Scripture that would justify the triumphant burning of the Quran by Christians. It looks like an act of carnal violence against "religious" enemies to me.

All the very best,

Richard

Anonymous said...

Johnny D

Welcome home, brother in Christ!! God bless you.

D

Paula said...

BibleWheel,

My point is that if burning the books of one's former religion (in this case, books of spells and incantations, AFAIK) is "a crazy way to evangelize", then why does scripture not comment on this as a bad thing that the new believers did? Why was there no reprimand about their bad witness, such as when Paul openly and publicly rebuked Peter for what is actually an attempt to "be sensitive" to the Jews?

I really do see a strong parallel between this incident and the one this post is about. Are we salt and light, or are we more willing to let the Name of Jesus be mocked than we are to appease the world?

Anonymous said...

Johnny D: What wonderful news. How sweet your testimony is. This is so encouraging for all of us that have prayed for you. Folks never give up, keep praying for those you love that are afar. God bless you Johnny. Welcome home!!!

Anonymous said...

I burned a Bee Gee's album in high school after my independent Baptist church called it of the Devil. I certainly think that Mohammed has done done more harm than Saturday Night fever. Would they also burn copies of ""The Shack" along with the Quran. I hated that book.

BibleWheel said...

Hey there Paula,

I don't want to "appease" anyone, especially not "the world." But neither do I desire to inflame their flesh with actions designed precisely for that purpose. It is a grave sin to add unnecessary offense to the Gospel.

How would you feel if they inflamed a lost Muslim soul brainwashed in jihad to murder a Christian family in retaliation for their burning a Quran? Remember, the "Dove" Ministries are seeking to offend and inflame the flesh of people they believe are ruled by the flesh! How insane is that? They are arsonists posing as a firefighters!

How does burning the Quran serve the Gospel of Peace?

With ministries like Dove Outreach, many will see Christianity as no more a "religion of peace" than Bin Laden's version of Islam. They are bringing dishonor to the name of Christ.

All the very best,

Richard

Thy Peace said...

The Wartburg Watch > Update on Davey (Watchdog) and Goliath (FBC Jax)

John Wylie said...

Congrats Johnny D. I like the way that you expressed youself in your post. What great insight. God bless you brother.

Paula said...

BibleWheel,

You ask "How would you feel if they inflamed a lost Muslim soul brainwashed in jihad to murder a Christian family in retaliation for their burning a Quran?", and I answer, "Muslims kill Christian families every day, often for no reason at all but that they are Christians. They don't need a reason beyond that. If you want to know the activities of Muslims on any given day, check this link:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

And my feelings are irrelevant; what matters is scripture. It tells me to renounce the false and stand for the true. It tells me that friendship with the world is hostility toward God. It tells me to choose the good and reject the bad. And it tells me to be more concerned with the honor of God than the impressions of people.

What "Christianity" are people seeing now? A weak, spineless, chameleon religion, where nothing is stood for and people have no convictions worth defending. I've heard many tell me that they reject Christianity precisely because we don't stand up for our beliefs. They see this as weak and insincere. They see that we lack passion for the truth we claim to have. They see us as fakes and Christianity as a mere social construct. Is this a good witness? Not at all.

Or how about Luther nailing his theses on the Wittenburg door? Was that not provocative? Would it have been better for him to keep trying to dialog with Rome?

You see, Christianity is not just about peace but also about truth and holiness. There is a time for everything, and that includes taking a stand and offending the lost. Not every unbeliever is a seeker; not every unbeliever will be won over by what appears to them as only cowardice. When we fail to stand boldly, we chase many from the gospel. Are these not worth caring about?

Let those of us who stand, stand without having to take arrows from our own brothers and sisters. Let the other parts of the Body do what they do without being hamstrung. We don't tell you how to witness, so please return the favor and stop scolding fellow believers on their convictions. This does nothing but show the world how divided we are. Just let the Holy Spirit work with us; He can do the job quite well.

Anonymous said...

Johnny D, your testimony was inspiring - I always felt from your early posts that you was a saved man and I agree with Pastor Wylie, you've always written with great insight.

I also believe that the Lord has directed each of our "anon" fingertips to this blog - your words are proof that this blog shares more than what people want to say about us - we are not hateful, angry, bitter bloggers. We are believers who share our opinions with one another.

Thanks Johnny D and likewise to you pastors who share your words of wisdom.

Anonymous said...

Some Insights into Rev Terry D. Jones


Warning, contains offensive language
Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

Anonymous said...

Koran Burner: Creepier Than You Think

Link 4

and Terry's Law Book

Link 5