In a scene reminiscent of Jerry Vines standing in the pulpit at First Baptist Jacksonville in 2002 defending his statement of Mohammad being a "demon-possessed pedophile", Robert Jeffress stood in front of his congregation today to defend his statement that Islamic men "all over the world" are "having sex with 4-year old girls".Here's what happened:
About a week ago, Jeffress held an "Ask the Pastor" event at his church, First Baptist Dallas, and gave a detailed explanation about the dangers of Islam in response to a question about Christian atrocities and Islamic violence, during which he stated the following:
"And here is the deep, dark, dirty secret of Islam: It is a religion that promotes pedophilia – sex with children. This so-called prophet Muhammad raped a 9-year-old girl – had sex with her," he said.
"Around the world today, you have Muslim men having sex with 4-year-old girls, taking them as their brides, because they believe the prophet Muhammad did."
Jeffress also spoke of the "35 sword verses" in the Koran that call for killing infidels, calling it an "oppressive religion", and pulled no punches in his descriptions of how terrible the "violent religion" is, and how the mosque at ground zero is a terrible idea because Islam is a religion that incites violence around the world.
Well, no surprise, a columnist at the Dallas Morning News didn't like Jeffress' remarks, calling him "uninformed", and "un-Christian". You can read the columnist's article here. His name is Steve Blow, pictured at left. No, I'm not kidding, that is his name.
Well, Jeffress decided to provide a response to Blow from the pulpit this morning before the First Baptist Dallas service started. He provided a solid defense for his statements. And he didn't read a prepared statement, he spoke from the heart, with conviction, and provided a reference for his statement about Islam and children brides.
However, his original statement said that "all over the world", Islamic men are "having sex with 4-year girls." He made that claim in his Q&A, and it is not accurate. In his response to Blow, he said that he didn't mean to imply that this was happening in the United States, but in other countries like Yemen and he cited a CBS News report about the atrocity of children brides in Yemen.
So I think Jeffress defended himself well. He overstated himself in the Q&A by implying that most Muslim men everywhere are having sex with 4-years olds and I think he should have stated so. But he clarified his remarks and gave a citation of a credible source to make his point. And I commend Jeffress for handling this controversy in the press head-on, in a direct, factual way. You can disagree with him, but he stood in his pulpit and explained himself and addressed Steve Blow's column - he didn't beat around the bush, or make himself to be a victim of the press. Some preachers think they're above directly addressing a controversy in the press, that they are above the fray. Not Jeffress, he dove right in and defended his views in front of his congregation.
Now, if we could just find someone in the Southern Baptist Convention who would be as passionate as Jeffress is on the issue of children brides in Yemen, who would get serious and passionate about tracking and informing Southern Baptists about pedophile preachers and ministers and lay people IN OUR OWN RELIGION, we would be making some progress, don't you think?
Here are the two videos of Jeffress - the first one is the Q&A statements about Islam, the 2nd is his response to Blow's column.
44 comments:
I am not inclined to watch all the statements that Jeffress made or to analyze them.
I will say that Christians have a hard enough time being experts on their own religion, let alone someone else's. There is so much room for error here. I believe that if I were a Christian pastor and felt compelled to talk about Islam or another religion that I would be very careful and reference my sources.
Having said that, I, too, am glad that Dr. Jeffress clarified what he said and took this head on.
Of course, this has nothing to do with the issue that you mention at the end of the post.
Forgot my name on the first comment.
Louis
"Of course, this has nothing to do with the issue that you mention at the end of the post."
Of course it does. We have pedophiles and perverts, too. And we tend to want to sweep our evil under the rug for image sake.
We even have one pastor of a huge mega church that hid the fact of a pedophile minister of prayer from the congregation for 6 mos before it became public. Said he did it because the sin was 'under the blood'. So why did Gaines ignore 1 Tim 3? No, we need to clean up our own camp and stop acting like it is only a tiny problem. It isn't and the reason is because it is not dealt with.
Seems the church is one of the safest places for a pervert these days. We even pay them to be perverted!
I spoke with a man just this past weekend who gave me a testimony about his life.
To make a long story short I will condense.
He stated to me that at the age of 14 he was molested by a Baptist Minister at a large First Baptist mega church. The only reason this molestation did not get reported was because another minister walked in on them and was it was swept under the rug by the church.
This man then went on to tell me how he handled this as a 14 year old. He went through pure HELL! In order to cover it up this dedicated YOUTH Christian at the time turned to ALCOHOL and DRUGS. With no where to turn, no one to talk to, he stated to me he would go to school drunk in the mornings, had it in his car and would do it during the day, and start over at night for years until GOD and his GRACE helped him stop at the age of 20. He told me of many encounters similar to what Christa writes about in her book and how the Baptist operate.
I was so sad for this man to hear another story of abuse by a Baptist minister. He is still being molested by having to think about it some 30 years later.
Baptist may want to stop singing this hymn " I'm so glad I am a part of this family of GOD"....
until they clean up their mess;
Some parts of this Baptist family are really tainted - BAD!
Steve Blow is a respected journalist in Dallas so don't be so quick to jump on Dr. Jeffress side. Steve happens to be a fine Christian man (member of a Baptist church---just not part of the mega fundamentalist movement).Steve has helped countless people through his columns and supports good things in the community. Jeffress on the other hand tends to speak in extremes and puts his foot in his mouth often, but manages to gloss it over with a silver tongue. Do not be fooled. He is just another mega pastor who enjoys the spotlight.
Good point...I really am not trying to jump on Jeffress side.
I do commend him for taking his case directly to his church, and giving his side of the story, giving his citation, explaining that he DID give citations to Blow, etc.
On the other hand, yes, thank God there are journalists who will dare to take on the wild accusations of a mega church pastor.
There is no question, when one hears what Jeffress said, one would conclude that Muslim men EVERYWHERE ("around the world" include the U.S.) are having sex with 4-year olds. He exaggerated greatly. And Blow called him on it, and I commend Blow for doing that.
We need more of that journalism. That is one of the purposes of this blog, is to shine a light on some of the outrageous things being said in pulpits today, especially those in southern baptist circles.
That is why when Jeffress gave financial advice to his church, and told them to be wary of financial advisors who caution against large gifts to the building program, and that one way to get closer to Jesus is to "lop of a big chunk of your assets"...I wanted my readers to see it. An example of a pastor giving bad advice, self-serving advice, to his congregation.
But I'm just a blogger.
Steve Blow is a newspaper columnist. Much harder to ignore a columnist than a blogger in his underwear, so Jeffress had to answer and he did a good job.
Everybody is jumping on SBC preachers these days! We preach on Hell...that's too hot for you to handle!
We say.."Islam is wrong"...you say we are Bigots".
We say..."Homo's don't need to marry"...we are not being sensitive.
Why don't you Oprah watching, Living Bible reading, Afraid of hurting my feeeeeeelings pansies, don't call "Islam a Cult" do gooders..open up your KJV Bible and realize that John 14:6 applies to us all! Grow a set and get right with God!
Thank God his source was not "Unveiling Islam" by Ergun and Emir Caner.
Oooh, can't you just feel the Christian love from Anon?
Onward Chritian soldiers! Demand your critics grow a pair of testes! Jesus is proud I'm sure.
Anon 10:28-
WOW! What a great attitude.
Will we be seeing you in Gainesville Fl for the Koran burning service on 9/11?
Thank you, Anon 10:01.
RJ carefully plans controversial comments as probable news stories (i.e. Mormonism, homosexuality, Oprah, etc).
While what he speaks is true, there is a definite and intentional(and narcissistic) strategy behind it. This is a guy who loves being in and on the news.
HOW you say it is just as important as WHAT you say, especially when spreading the gospel is supposed to be your goal.
Islam is evil. Jeffress looks like a media hound.
It cannot be that since Jeffress is a jerk, that makes Islam not evil. And it does not mean that there is NO pedophilia in Islam. Quite frankly, there is lots of pedophila in the form of young boys in the Afghan version of Islam which is a more folksy form of Islam. It is most likely in other sects, too. My family who was there for quite a while was astonished at how normal it is considered.
And it is NO secret that many Islamic countries turn a blind eye to male on male homosexuality. But in turn, will stone a woman who was raped but not her rapist. Such is Islam and we had best educate ourselves about Sharia law because they are allowed to practice it in England and Canada in their communities. And it goes against our civil rights.
We cannot make Islam less evil by making Jeffress a jerk. Has anyone considered he might be trying to INDIRECTLY defend Caner without saying so? The thought crossed my mind...because some Christians
are defending Islam in order to go after Caner. A very unwise position, I might add.
Caner is a liar. And his lies stand alone. His lies do not make Islam less evil.
I can know that Islam is evil and at the same time know that the SBC has serious problems with it's own perverts.
I am just glad that our Holy Scriptures make it clear that such behavior is evil. I wish more of our leaders would understand that and fear the millstone.
In WF, from whence he came to FBC-D, Jeffress wasn't well known for his people skills, but he was liked for his preaching skills and convictions--fairly specific, well studied, etc. At least as good at it as many, and better than most probably. Listen to him again aside from the Islam thing.
Anon 6:30-
I don't think anyone on here is saying that Islam is loving and sweet and safe, because Jeffress is coming out opposed to it.
I think everyone on here would agree that Islam is dangerous, however, there are those preachers who will select what they will take issue with from the pulpit or on TV. There are always the safe "red meat" issues like homosexuality, Islam, adultery, and pedophilia that always whips us conservatives up into a frenzy.
And if it gets you some headlines locally and/or nationally even better, their job is finished and successful. Believe me Robert Jeffress will run over babies and grandmas on walkers to get to a microphone in front of a TV camera.
It is my opinion that Robert's agenda has been since his Wichita Falls days and continues even to now is to be a media giant. He will say what he needs to say the way he needs to say it to draw local and national media attention. There is a way of warning us against the dangers of Islams (of which most are already aware) without becoming a sensationalist. This behavior is not God glorifying or kingdom building. And I don't think either of those is Robert's motivation.
On another matter, we never did find out how much personal sacrifice Robert made as he asked the congregation to give their retirement funds and their children's college funds to the building program. His daughter is now at Baylor (look up the cost). Are we to believe they the Jeffress family sacrificed Dorothy's college fund and were still able to send her to Baylor?
Watchdog and others have brought up some valid concerns about the way in which Dr. Jeffress handled the Q and A session. One thing I will say about Robert Jeffress is that at least he does preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't know anything about his personal motives, I don't know him. But Paul rejoiced when people preached Christ even when their motivations were not right.
"Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice." (Philippians 1:15-18)
"One thing I will say about Robert Jeffress is that at least he does preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't know anything about his personal motives, I don't know him. But Paul rejoiced when people preached Christ even when their motivations were not right."
Then by all means, we should ignore everything else such as spending 130 million on a fancy building to ATTRACT people to Jesus. We know that is preaching the Gospel. Of course, it is not the same Jesus.
Who IS this Jesus that Jeffress preaches about? The prosperity Jesus? The "image" is important Jesus?
I suppose it is too much to ask that a long time seminary educated pastor actually act and teach like a spiritually mature believer who is not impressed with such things as fancy buildings and image.
You have once again taken a passage out of context and once again made it to benefit a pastor.
Paul warned in Acts 20 that wolves would be in the church EVEN among the elders he was talking to.
We are inundated with wolves but they are so normal and so many professing believers know nothing of the Word so no one can recognize them!
First let us DEFINE what is "preaching Christ" to you. And let us make sure it is the FULL gospel.
John, Are you looking for a job in the SBC?
Anon 8:59,
Yeah I applied for the IMB job. Since it looks like I didn't make the cut at NAMB...lol
Tom and others,
Those of you who are comparing Jeffress statements of pedophilia in Isalm, to the wicked atrocities at the hand of perverted false preachers, can't really be serious.
There is no comparison.
The pedophilia within Islam, is "in the name of" Islam.
The pedophilia within Christianity is "IN SPITE OF" Christianity.
Every plastic preacher who has ever molested a child has no business being in the position of a "Christian minister."
However, in Islam it is promulgated, promoted, and part of their faith.
This idea that we must walk softly and carry an "in my opinion" in our pocket and use it every time we speak, is unbiblical, and unspiritual.
There is never a need to be a "truth bully", but there is always a need to be "settled" "solid" and "said" when it comes to false faith.
Islam is an evil fiction that has poisoned the hearts and minds of millions of people that need to know that "Allah" doesn't make any decision at all about who goes to heaven, and who goes to hell.
God doesn't decide who goes to heaven, Jesus does. "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment to the Son."
Whether men like that or not is irrelevant. That is the solid settled fact that all men must respond to.
Truth is, and all else isn't.
And no one is wrong when they say so.
Jeff - you are exaggerating just as Jeffress is.
You say:
"However, in Islam it is promulgated, promoted, and part of their faith. "
Can you point to any evidence, that as a regular practice of the Islamic religion, that having sex with 4 year olds, or pedophilia in general, is "promulgated", and is "promoted", and is a "part of their faith". Other than Mohammad having a 9-year old wife, and we know that in Yemen there are some sickos that think they can take a child wife, can you please provide evidence of how this is part of the Islamic faith?
Please, show us the evidence.
I really can't stand Jeffress and First Baptist but...He is right-on correct. And I appreciate that he would have the guts to stand by the truth.
In defense of Jeffress, Islam DOES promote rape and pedophilia. Absolutely! What does Islam claim their heaven is for the men? Sex with thousands of virgins!! Well, Who are virgins but children?!?!!
" Robert Jeffress will run over babies and grandmas on walkers to get to a microphone in front of a TV camera.'"
SOO TRUE!! Seems to be all about him, with him, doesn't it? Seems like he likes himself. ALOT.
Liberals make me sick! We are supposed to have a spine and not be concerned with what "Man says about us." Who cares if the Muslims are mad about us saying their religion is of the Devil...it is!!! Who cares if they riot because we say that Mohammed was a Pedophile that married 9 year old girls...He was!! Who cares if you tear down good solid Christian Pastors who stand up for Righteousness and Biblical Truth...We Do! You ought to be ashamed of yourself running down Pastors and lifting up Imans! What a crock!
Anon 8:58
"You have once again taken a passage out of context and once again made it to benefit a pastor."
In what way did I take that passage out of context? Paul was saying that some of the preachers he was referring to were preaching Christ with the right motives, while others were not. Paul said he rejoiced that Christ was preached whatever the motives of the preacher. People commented about Dr. Jefferess's motives in his statements, I simply stated at least he preaches the Gospel of Chirst. I have no idea about Jefferess's motives and neither do you.
"First let us DEFINE what is "preaching Christ" to you. And let us make sure it is the FULL gospel."
This is the Gospel, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ the Son of God for the remission of our sins. And faith alone in Christ alone saves us.
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" (John 1:12)
" I simply stated at least he preaches the Gospel of Chirst."
Are you sure. The Gospel of Christ is a push to build a big fancy building to "attract" the right people? The Gospel of Christ is teaching about Islam when most of the folks sitting there think that "believing in Jesus Christ" is all there is to salvation. (Even the Demons believe that)
Where is take up your Cross and follow me? Where is being a NEW creation in Christ? Where is being born again and the material things of the world do not matter?
What Gospel is he preaching? Joel Osteen's?
It is very strange what folks think is the Gospel these days.
'Who cares if they riot because we say that Mohammed was a Pedophile that married 9 year old girls...He was!!"
He married her when she was 6 and consummated it when she was 9. That was nice of him, wasn't it. I wonder what the difference is between 6 and 9 for him? He was about 50.
He also had many other wives. His first wife, widow, was quite a bit older than him and quite wealthy. This is where he got the time and money to put all the religions he came in contact with on the trading crossroads where he grew up into Islam.
I stand by my statements of what the Gospel of Chirst is. I would agree with you about the 130 million dollar face lift of the buildings downtown. I would agree with most on this blog that tithing is not N.T.
But I have personally heard Dr. Jefferess preach the gospel, he uses the national platform of FBC Dallas to preach the Gospel. In that I will rejoice.
John,
If Jeffress only preached the full gospel...even the bad news that makes the good news, good...then his pews would empty and he would never collect enough money to erect that fancy tower he is building to God. We all know how God wants fancy buildings that cost tons of money to impress folks.
Like many other mega preachers, he preaches a political Gospel.
I am sick and tired of being held hostage by Muslims. They riot when we burn their Book...they celebrated in the streets when 9/11 happened. They want to supress our right to critique their faith. Funny, this Blog seems to favor the Muslims over Bible Believing Christians. So Bro...let your daughter go to Saudi Arabi and wear a Sack Cloth and be treated like a Dog...then you will have a little different opinion...right? Run down God's men if you like too but remember that there are some Muslim Clerics out there that may be a little more dictatoral than Mac!
No Muslim ever tried to "shut down' this blog. So for now, Mac and Soud are much worse. :)
And no Christian was a terriost on Board those planes on 9/11! No Christian is trying to implement Sharia law which by the way....will shut down this Blog. Are you really a Christian.....????
TO September 7, 2010 2:11 PM
VERY good points!
anon 2:11 and 2:33---You both need to be in the White House! This whole thing about tolerance has got way out of hand!
It's a crying shame that Robert Jeffress is being put down for telling the truth. But it is not MSNBC that is knocking the guy, it is Liberal Christians that can't handle the Truth!
Either Mohammed was a Liar or Jesus was a Liar!
Did Jesus have sex with 9 year olds? Did Jesus say cut off the heads of the Infidels? Did Jesus give his followers the right to conduct Jihad?
Pull your skirts up Boys, take off your bonnets and your high heels and get some steel in that weak backbone of yours and let's speak the Truth in Love...Islam is a Lie!!
Tom - you said, "Other than Mohammad having a 9-year old wife, and we know that in Yemen there are some sickos that think they can take a child wife."
That's like ruling that the number 4 doesn't exist, and then asking what 2 plus 2 is.
Mohammed IS the evidence, as well as the testimonies of Muslims who have left the fictitious faith, as well as the Yemeni yo-yo's.
The child-bride philosopohy of Yemen comes from Islam.
Jerry was right, and everyone who tries to apologize for what he said has no spiritual backbone. Mohammed was a Pedophile. Period.
I say that with no grit in my voice, or strain in my veins. Islam is not to be respected as a moral equivalent to Christianity, it is to be outright rejected as a fictitious faith from hell.
The facts may be that not all Islamic people practice the child-bride philosophy, but that does not change the doctrinal permissions of the religion.
There is no exaggeration here.
Islamic people are wanted and welcomed to come to the cross of Christ, as are Baptists and Methodists, and every family member I have.
Islamic faith, is an evil fictitious cancer that has poisoned the minds of many people still in need of a Savior.
I've never met a doctor yet that tried to molly coddle cancer. I wouldn't use him if I did. Call cancer what it is, and treat it as such.
Jeff - sorry that you need to boil the issue down to "2 + 2 = 4", but that is a convenient oversimplification on your part. Fundamentalists tend to do that - they will oversimplify and overgeneralize in the defense of their faith, and feel God has called them to blast false religions instead of understanding them so that we can share the truth in love.
Imagine a Muslim saying: "Christians and Jews are polygamists. Men all over the world are marrying multiple wives."
And then the person who says this points to a few Mormons in our country who still practice this. They point to news stories of men in our country who practice it, and who have been convicted of it.
You would rightly object on multiple points: Mormons are not "Christians". Most mormons do not practice it. Although Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were big time polygamists, eventually their leaders came in line with federal laws prohibiting it, and now they no longer do it. You would point to our country taking a strong stand against it through laws. You would point out that just because the Old Testament tells of many who were polygamists, it still is not God's standard at all for men and women.
I'm not trying to defend Muslims in any sense. What is wrong with wanting to understand them, and to CORRECTLY characterize the problems in their religion, instead of just popping off that Muslim men around the world are having sex with 4 year olds? That was a CARELESS, false statement made by Jeffress.
"I say that with no grit in my voice, or strain in my veins. Islam is not to be respected as a moral equivalent to Christianity, it is to be outright rejected as a fictitious faith from hell.
The facts may be that not all Islamic people practice the child-bride philosophy, but that does not change the doctrinal permissions of the religion.
Islamic faith, is an evil fictitious cancer that has poisoned the minds of many people still in need of a Savior."
September 7, 2010 3:18 PM
Anon I agree whole-heartedly with your comments!!!
When Jesus confronted the Pharisees who had corrupted Judaism He did'nt speak to them in compromising nicely worded,fluffy language[Matt.23]!!!
Paul when confronting the false prophet Bar-jesus in Acts 13 surely did not use comforting language as though he was concerned about Bar-jesus feelings!!!
Paul to those judaizers who would pervert the Grace of God wrote "Beware of DOGS,beware of EVIL WORKERS,beware of the MUTILATION"[Phil.3:2]Not very nice "HUH"!!!
In speaking of false teachers in the Church(how much more Islam)Peter wrote,"But these,like NATURAL BRUTE BEAST(not cowardedly language)made to be caught and destroyed"[2Pet.2:12]!!!
I stand with the commission given the Apostle Paul;
"As we have said before,so now I say again,if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received,LET HIM BE ACCURSED(Islam included).For do I now PERSUADE MEN,OR GOD? OR DO I SEEK TO PLEASE MEN? FOR IF I STILL PLEASED MEN,I WOULD NOT BE A SLAVE OF CHRIST[Gal.1:8-10]!!!
My personal stance;;;
"Walk in "WISDOM" toward those who are "OUTSIDE;redeeming the time. Let your speech always be with grace,SEASONED WITH SALT,that you may know how you ought to answer each one[Col.4:5-6]!!!
Brother Wylie continue to stand on the truth and remember;
"Clarity over agreement"!!!
LOVE!!!
This should be a must-read for all. Think about what led up to WWII. Not why the U.S. eventually got involved but the years in Europe leading up to WWII.
Then read this and think about what we're seeing with fanatic Muslims today. As they say, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Celestial Junk >> Why the Peaceful Majority is Irrelevant
Then read the follow-up for even more insight:
Celestial Junk >> Why the Peaceful Majority Might be Dangerous
Sheri said...
If Robert Jeffress likes the press, then he could take a few lessons from the pastor in Gainesville, scheduled to burn the Quaran on Saturday! Talk about a publicity stunt!! Sheesh....
BBC thank you such much for those two links!!!
Everyone such read them!!!
Love!!!
Tom,
You said, "Jeff - sorry that you need to boil the issue down to "2 + 2 = 4", but that is a convenient oversimplification on your part. Fundamentalists tend to do that - they will oversimplify and overgeneralize in the defense of their faith, and feel God has called them to blast false religions instead of understanding them so that we can share the truth in love."
I have not oversimplified it, you have overanalyzed it. The fact is that the simplicity of the evil in Islam trumps everything in it. The devil does not stand for peace regardless of what he says.
What you call "blasting" other religions, I am calling "rebuking." I am not blasting them any more than I am blasting mormonism whenever I call them a cult. Words are strong and have deep true meanings, and Jesus never once softened his rebukes of false religions. I do not have to understand a false religion to rebuke it.
I don't have to put my head in a trash can to know that it stinks.
I do understand that you are not defending them. But you are trying to stymie those who will rebuke.
I can and make every attempt to make sure there is no strain in my veins, no joy in my voice, and no thrill in my tone when I call Islam perverted and evil. I know some do.
Your attempts to soften the strong true words against them, (and my intention is to say this lovingly) is not a spiritual virtue. We are talking about rebuking brothers, we are talking about voicing the truth against the shouts of hell.
I don't know either of these two men, but "around the world" and "all over the world" have 2 different implications. As a jounalist, I would assume Steve Blows knows this and therefore would be inclined to think that he purposively changed the quote to suit his argument.
Pastor Jeffress Thank you for standing on the ROCK, especially when it comes to Islam. I have one word for the nay sayers watch PBS documentary "The Dancing Boys of Afghanistan." (Google it)
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