"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Sunday, February 20, 2011

Favorite Videos From FBC Jax

Below are some YouTube clips of music from FBC Jax. Most of these, if not all, are from the Pastor's Conference.

Chip Dorton - "Heaven" - 2003




Chip Dorton and Trio - "Farther Along - 2003"



Chip Dorton - "The Old Rugged Cross" - 2003



Babi Mason and Chip Dorton - "In All of His Glory" - 2003



Chip Dorton - "In Christ Alone" - 1999



Chip Dorton - "He Looked Beyond My Fault" - 2001

71 comments:

Anonymous said...

What a blessing this Sunday morning!

Anonymous said...

Look this stuff is so OLD!!

Ed Young's conference had U2 music and some Black Eye Peas and a moving DC Talk song!

I was not blessed by those videos....I was bored!!!

Troll Detector said...

TROLL ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!


"I was not blessed by those videos....I was bored!!!"

Another Troll who never experienced a God gifted singer named Chip Dorton!

Anonymous said...

Chip was not only a very gifted singer but was a very humble individual. A rare thing to find in our day and time.

I just recently learned that another former pastor and friend of FBCJ Dr John Phillips died last July in Winston Salem N.C. For all of those that attended the conferences back in the 1980's and 1990's Dr Phillips was one of the finest. He was an accomplished theologian while at the same time being a wonderful person. He always had a special message and wrote many splendid books. For those that missed him you missed a chapter out of your life.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:22 pm. You should be ashamed of yourself. One should never speak disrespectul of the deceased especially when you have no idea of what you are talking about.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Folks,

Please! Come on! Do you not recognize a troll when you see one? This person is just trying to get under your skin, and you're letting him succeed! As long as anonymous comments are allowed and as long as people continue to respond, s/he's going to continue because people keep reacting to it. If everyone will ignore it, it will shrivel up, dry out, and blow away from boredom.

Anonymous said...

"Another Troll who never experienced a God gifted singer named Chip Dorton!"

Or someone who chooses a style not shown by Dorton. There are some good singers out there that are considered boring by many. Does this make it so?

Troll detector, you really need a new job, your performance asn TD is pitiful.

Lynn said...

Thanks, WD. Good stuff. "Farther Along" is my favorite.

Anonymous said...

Always loved to hear Chip Dorton sing. Miss his singing but can't wait to hear him sing when I get to Heaven!
Kyle

Anonymous said...

"If everyone will ignore it, it will shrivel up, dry out, and blow away from boredom."

I don't think so. Seems everyone was saying the same about the Dog.

Slow to speak said...

Anon. 1:22 is a troll, but a truthful Troll.

Let's face it. That old school music is like Lawrence Welk. Might as well blow bubbles on the stage.

It does not work any more.

If you are going to impact this Nation, we must be culturally relevant. Not just Jeans and Bands, but songs that speak to our generation.

That stuff on those videos put me to sleep!

Anonymous said...

Slow to think and speak said:
"If you are going to impact this Nation, we must be culturally relevant. Not just Jeans and Bands, but songs that speak to our generation"

Culturally relvant? What does that mean exactly? THe usual Thump and bump rythym to cover a rendundant lyric, all so we can look like the world's music?

This cultural relevance tripe is a fluffy way of saying you desire the same old drivel the world is pushing. More bread and circus performances, celebrity pastors and musicians, blah blah blah. And so forth.

Your lack of maturity wreaks here, the so-called contemporary music leaves me totally bored with it's redundant lyrics and monotonous strains, all cloaked in some blaring drum, guitar or amped up recording.

Camp fire songs for corporate worship, yeah thats what the world needs, more cotton candy. Doctrine in the Music? Who needs that stuff. RIght?

Anonymous said...

Off topic I know, but does anyone know why the Ergun Caner twitter account is suspended?

Anonymous said...

When did Mr. Dorton die and from what?

Bene D

WishIhadknown said...

“It’s the old time religion, the old time religion, the old time religion and it’s good enough for me.”

FBC Choir Member said...

Slow to speak said... "If you are going to impact this Nation, we must be culturally relevant. Not just Jeans and Bands, but songs that speak to our generation."

I disagree with you. Wearing jeans to church on Sundays shows a lack of respect for the church. I always wear a suit to Sunday School and during church I'm wearing a robe because I sing baritone in the Chancel Choir.

In regards to music, I love choral music. I love singing it and I listen to it a good bit. There's a reason why we do hymns and "old" music- It's relevant to all generations and has stood the test of time. It's sad that you can't appreciate hymns, classical, and other older choral music.

I've also got a few comments on contemporary music. There is a lot of high-quality contemporary music that is written for choir and orchestra. We do that at FBC quite a bit. We even have drums, guitar, and electric bass at church with the choir and orchestra. For example, on "Bless the Lord (Son of Man)" that we performed with Daniel Crews at Pastors' Conference, has a very good electric guitar part. It interacts very nicely with the violins at the beginning.

However, your proposal to just have a band in church to be "relevant" is a terrible idea because it's musically limiting and doesn't allow for the wide variety of music we do. It would result in the loss of a large portion of the range of musical expression we can currently do. With our current arrangement, we can do classical music, hymns, gospel, jazz, and more contemporary and rock-influenced pieces.

Slow to speak, I also see you played the generational warfare card. It really isn't that simple. There are a fair number of young people involved in what you call "old school music" at FBC. I'm one of them. I'm 20 years old and I've been involved in choral singing for seven years now. I joined the Chancel Choir in 2008, two weeks before I turned 18.

I enjoy a variety of music, just about everything except rap and country. I'm also a hard rock fan. It's not a matter of me not liking modern music, it's that I like many kinds of music. Slow to speak, you really should open your mind and learn to appreciate the "old school music" that you deride.

WishIhadknown said...

DORTON - William “ Chip” Earl Dorton, 39, passed away February 11, 2003. He was born in Orlando, Florida and moved to Jacksonville eight years ago after attending Eastern Kentucky University and Julliard School of Music in New York. Chip was an opera singer and debuted in Carnegie Hall. He performed all over the world including Baden Baden, Germany, Sapporo, Japan, the French Embassy, and the American Embassy in Paris. He was a member of First Baptist Church but performed at many other churches as a traveling Evangelistic Music Minister. Survivors include his parents, Mary Dorton and William “ Bill” Earl Dorton, II; sister, Kelle Miller and her husband, Keith; niece and nephew, Cheyenne and Dakota Miller; and grandfather, Lonnie Brown. A memorial service will be held at 2 p.m. Saturday, February 15, 2003, at First Baptist Church with Dr. Jerry Vines officiating. In lieu of flowers, memorial contributions may be made to the American Cancer Society. Arrangements by HARDAGEGIDDENS FUNERAL HOME, 4115 Hendricks Avenue.

WishIhadknown said...

FBC Choir Member,
Excellent post!

Anonymous said...

"I disagree with you. Wearing jeans to church on Sundays shows a lack of respect for the church."

Ever do any research as to how the tradition of people wearing their "Sunday best" to church got started?

The answer may surprise you.

I'll give you a hint. Look in the book "Pagan Christianity."

WishIhadknown said...

"I disagree with you. Wearing jeans to church on Sundays shows a lack of respect for the church."

I think you should always dress your best to go to church, the women like it better. Ask your wife or girlfriend if she likes it when you dress in a coat and tie, mine does. As we all know, life is just a lot easier if moma is happy.

Anonymous said...

"I disagree with you. Wearing jeans to church on Sundays shows a lack of respect for the church."

And we all know we must respect the building.

Too bad the 1st Century Christians mostly owned one thobe made of course fiber, home woven. What a lack of respect to others!

I am so grateful that no one enters your sacred "building" looking less that what you think they should look.

Anonymous said...

Ever do any research as to how the tradition of people wearing their "Sunday best" to church got started?

The answer may surprise you.

I'll give you a hint. Look in the book "Pagan Christianity."

February 21, 2011 1:10 PM

Yep, it is actually a pagan tradition brought into the church. In fact, the early Christians met every time they could in homes and not special buildings. They had no special buildings or special clothes. They did not even have special times they met.

We turned traditions into new laws for the New Covenant.

Slow to speak said...

FBC Choir Member, how much "Choir music" is in your ipod?

Because, Friend, this is not an "8 Track" world any long!

Organs are great....at Ballgames!

Robes are super...for after a shower!

Wearing a suit?...why would I do that? To give people the excuse..."I don't have anything to wear to "Church". Does God care if I have Jeans on?

You see, FBC Choir Member, it is a different world than when you were captivated by the Andy Griffin Show.

This ain't Mayberry!!!

It is 2011 and if you want to pretend that we are still in the 1950's, go ahead and keep your head in the sand and watch the world go to Hell.

FBC Choir Member, are you more in love with Tradition than you are in love with Jesus?

Anonymous said...

This is not to besmirch the memory of Mr Dorton in any way; he appears to have been a good guy and a very good singer.

I want to contrast a couple of things about the church. We say "hate the sin, love the sinner".

However, if a homosexual member were to declare "I know the Bible teaches it is a sin, and I've tried to change, but this is how I am, I'm going to practice this lifestyle, and I don't want anyone bringing it up to me again."...how long would that person remain a member of the congregation?

Gluttony is far more harmful to society than is homosexuality.

We say "there is no such thing as a former Christian", shouldn't it also be true that there is no such thing as an obese Christian?

I'm hopeful this isn't inappropriate. Feel free to delete or move.

WishIhadknown said...

Anon 2:30
I pray that you never struggle with weight issues or obesity.

Anonymous said...

I pray you don't miss the larger point (no pun intended).

Thy Peace said...

Gluttony is NOT always the cause of Obesity.

WishIhadknown said...

Oh, I get the larger point. I have lost 40 pounds in the last year and I am in a fight for 20 more. What is sadder is my starting weight was a lot less than most in my peer group.
Now that I can button the top button on my shirt again I wear a tie every day.

Anonymous said...

"Gluttony is NOT always the cause of Obesity."

I don't see why that, in any way, gives obese people an automatic pass. Those who swallow that excuse only compound the sin.

Don't forget "big bones".

WishIhadknown said...

It must be terrible for you to have achieved sinless perfection and then have to dwell among the rest of us sinners.

WishIhadknown said...

I laugh every time the issue of dress comes up here. Being well dressed never goes out of style no matter where you are; unless you wear a suit to one of the “relevant” churches then, I guess, you are in trouble.

What is so funny, is I remember being in the church in the
1970’s. Josh McDowell came to my University to speak. He tried to dress in a culturally relevant fashion, blue jeans, sandals, flowered shirt and fringed leather vest. He thought he was dressing to fit in or be relevant to his audience.
The funny part is that he missed a shift in fashion trends. Flowered shirts were replaced by starched Oxford button down shirts; jeans were replaced by khakis, sandals by docksiders and vests by neck ties. The trend was to dress up not down. So here was poor Josh McDowell dressed like a hippy in a room full of yuppies.
Of course he could not recognize he had missed the shift and was now dressed inappropriately to be relevant to the young crowd. His comment was to deride his well dressed audience by pronouncing that we had “self esteem issues.” He was right, we were wrong.
The present trend away from coat and tie has more to do with the obesity epidemic sweeping our country than it does any significant movement of the Holy Spirit.

Anonymous said...

"Yep, it is actually a pagan tradition brought into the church. In fact, the early Christians met every time they could in homes and not special buildings. They had no special buildings or special clothes. They did not even have special times they met."

Not only that but the Methodists used to force the rich members of the congregation to go back home and "change into something more appropriate" when they dressed up for church.

It was deemed as an arrogant display of pride back then.

Only after the rise of the middle class during the industrial revolution (when less affluent members of the congregation could imitate their "betters"), did anyone get dressed up for church.

Up until that point, it was considered "disrespectful to the church" to wear fancy clothes during a service.

I guess we've come full circle.

I wonder if Jesus had a special fancy Sunday robe that her wore only to church? Kind of doubt it.

Anonymous said...

Some of these comments are so trite. Regarding "dressing down" and inappropiate music, can we say Purpose Driven...Purpose Driven,,, Purpose Driven.

Anonymous said...

Nero fiddles while Rome burns.

Our Enemy prowls and devours while we discuss dressing up for church, styles of music, troll alerts, old time religion and how many years we have sung in the choir.

When will we realize that the Gospel of Christ is it - it is all we live for - it is all that matters - it is all that must be lived out.

I hit this blog about once every 2-3 months, I don't know why, it saddens me everytime to see how we as Christians just continue to fiddle.

Ben

Anonymous said...

"I hit this blog about once every 2-3 months, I don't know why, it saddens me everytime to see how we as Christians just continue to fiddle."

Ben, Nero had the fire started then fiddled while he watched it burn.

We are warning of the Nero's in Christendom. The wolves. It is important to get out and stop supporting them.

Real Christians are Bereans.

Anonymous said...

"Gluttony is far more harmful to society than is homosexuality."

You mean healthwise? Or economically? Or Spiritually?

Many fat people I know don't eat as much as we think. I once saw a study on this. They had slower metabolisms and had to eat less than 1000 calories a day to lose any weight. While the skinny people were eating 2500 and staying the same!

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:11,

Nero playing fiddle is a fable, I was using it as an expression to communicate that so often Christians are so concerned about the least important issues (dress, style of music, rap videos) while the lost die in the sting of hell.

Your desire to purge the church of Nerodian leaders is to the detriment of spreading the Gospel. I'll prove it by asking the number of people you have shared the entirety of the Gospel with in the last 7 days. Don't feel alone in your answer - - most who lose sight of the main thing will have to answer in the same way.


Ben

WishIhadknown said...

23

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Ben is back!!!

Hasn't changed a lick. Same bad logic. Complete lack of discernment or any skill for interpreting scripture in context.

But he is good at name-calling, boasting, and man-worship.

All spoken against in scripture.

Anonymous said...

"Your desire to purge the church of Nerodian leaders is to the detriment of spreading the Gospel."

So why did Paul teach us to do that in scripture? Was Paul's teaching a detriment to scripture? Because I thought that teaching was scripture.

Please enlighten us on how Paul was wrong?

Anonymous said...

"I'll prove it by asking the number of people you have shared the entirety of the Gospel with in the last 7 days."

Judas (being one of Christ's disciples) shared the gospel with lots of people. What did that prove?

Anonymous said...

"Don't feel alone in your answer - - most who lose sight of the main thing will have to answer in the same way."

This from the same person who posted dozens of comments trying support the Old Covenant practice of tithing. I would advise you to take your own advice.

Anonymous said...

"I hit this blog about once every 2-3 months, I don't know why, it saddens me everytime to see how we as Christians just continue to fiddle."

You mean "fiddling" like posting dozens of comments trying to support the OT tithe when free will giving is taught in the NT?

You mean "fiddling" like supporting a decade long documented liar from the pulpit?

Dee said...

Thank you for sharing this wonderful music. I never knew of Chip but his voice was stunning beautiful.

Lynn said...

I kinda like it when the discussion drifts off to related topics. Some interesting stuff comes up.

Obesity is a fascinating subject to me. When people say it's just that some people eat too much and so they get fat, they are showing their ignorance on the subject. They need to do more research. Some people can eat tons and their body refuses to get fat. Some people can eat two cookies and gain a pound overnite.

Someone said fat people can eat actually less than skinny people and still stay fat. I think they are right, and there's a reason for that. Read Fit or Fat by Covert Bailey to see how that works. How your body handles food and how much and what kind it can handle has a lot to do with how much of your body is fat and how much of your body is lean muscle.

Why people eat too much is also not a simple thing like gluttony. All kinds of things factor into that.

Anonymous said...

"Your desire to purge the church of Nerodian leaders is to the detriment of spreading the Gospel."

I have not laughed this hard in a while. This is almost the exactly what the Catholic Bishops told Luther. Remember, the "Reformers" were trying to "reform" the Catholic church. Could not be done then and it cannot be done now. The evil is too entrenched.

So, what sort of a "Gospel" can the Nerodian types spread? Should they teach...do as I say but not as I do like the Pharisees?

Oh the cognitive dissonance that goes in these churches. Poor ignorant pew sitters. They have the tools at their fingertips to know better but they would rather follow man.

Anonymous said...

"Someone said fat people can eat actually less than skinny people and still stay fat. I think they are right, and there's a reason for that. Read Fit or Fat by Covert Bailey to see how that works. How your body handles food and how much and what kind it can handle has a lot to do with how much of your body is fat and how much of your body is lean muscle."

I know fat people who became fit and only lost a few pounds but quite a few clothing sizes. Muscle weighs more, btw.

Also, research is showing and experience proving that eating less might help people STORE fat. The body thinks you are starving it so it works to store as much fat as possible. This is true in women more than men.

Research is showing that something like 200 Calories every few hours teaches the body not to store fat and it starts burning it.

What is even more interesting is that only in the last few years has research on this subject really broken through with understanding metablolism and how different types respond.

Anonymous said...

"Oh the cognitive dissonance that goes in these churches. Poor ignorant pew sitters. They have the tools at their fingertips to know better but they would rather follow man."

You nailed it, man.
Exactly right.

The answer is sitting right in their lap.

Anonymous said...

Interesting that both Stoval & Andy Stanley were brought up in the BAPTIST doctrine & both have a large following preaching another kind of format and people are being saved.

As far as the conversation on obesity & weight issues, believe what we are focusing are only on those who are "gluttons" and love to crowd their stomachs.

Anonymous said...

"Muscle weighs more, btw."

NOT!!! A pound is a pound is a pound. Muscle is DENSER than fat but does not weigh more. It is like saying, "What weighs more, a pound of rocks or a pound of feathers."

One other point, coming to the Baptist church as an "outsider", I noticed there are a lot of fat people in the baptist church. A whole lot. And just about everthing revolves around food (ha ha "food, fun and fellowship, LOL!)

Anonymous said...

Boy is it ever time to move on from this thread. Wow!

Lynn said...

Anon 9:23,
Thanks for the info. That was new to me. And it's encouraging that you know actual, real people who did get fit. I'm learning more and more, and as your info demonstrated, it's a complicated thing.

I'm only slightly overweight as far as BMI, but my body fat percentage is way high. I've just started recently to truly try to get fit and change that, which is way more important than the number on the scale.

Anon 10:25,

I don't think the ugly term "glutton" even makes sense any more. It implies being selfish, self-centered. There are all kinds of reasons that people pig out on food. It's nothing to do with their morals.

The people who don't pig out are not morally superior. They are different in many ways. They either don't have the desire really, or they've figured out a way to change their behavior.

Anonymous said...

Slow to speak, he say:

Because, Friend, this is not an "8 Track" world any long!

Organs are great....at Ballgames!

Robes are super...for after a shower!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Your holy compassion and personal warmth is truly a thing to behold. Now go back into your troll hole.

Your arrogance has been duly noted, your minute of fame is up.

turnureyesonJC said...

Anon 2:44,
Truth can give you indigestion!

Maybe you need to put on a Bill Gaither DVD and get you some hanky's and have a good time reminiscing about the "Old Days"!!!

Truth is rooted in Facts!! The facts are that we are losing the next generation and the worship style of the "Chuck Wagon Gang" and reruns of Jerry Falwell's sermons ain't going to get the job done.

You need to get more exercise Brother!

The Blood is not flowing well to your brain!

Anonymous said...

I see all these comments, but none about souls that were being SAVED!This is what its all about? RIGHT?
The would come by the hundreds and you would have tears in your eyes watching the families and different variety of people that were walking the isles giving their LIFE FOR CHRIST!
WE don't see that anymore. I believe it was the WONDERFUL MUSIC that put FIRE in there LIFE and they wanted to be a part of the family of GOD!
Those my friend, were the GOOD GOSPEL DAYS AT FBC CHURCH. God hasn't changed but WE HAVE!

turnureyesonJC said...

No, Friend....God has changed...He has Changed...His Methods!!!

That Old School, yelling, screaming, dandruff on the shoulder, Southern Gospel Leisure Suits, and old timey Crew Cuts is H-I-S-T-O-R-Y!!!

Have you opened your Eyes!!

Celebration Church is beating FBCJAX's eyes shut! They are winning~!!

WHY???

Their Pastor has a Soul Patch, they have a Worship Band that will Rock your Bod and Roll your Soul, and they have some of the coolest technology that is in the Best Clubs in Jax!!!

We are not of the World...BUT WE ARE IN THE WORLD!!!

WE ARE GOING TO USE THE DEVIL'S METHODS AND WIN PEOPLE TO JESUS WITH IT!!

TO GOD BE THE GLORY!!!

Lynn said...

Another blog I regularly read has a different take on how to deal with the attracting young people issue. It's called fallenfromgrace.net.

Anonymous said...

Where is the sanity in this discussion? The music wars still go on all the while lost people keep dying.

A hint to both sides of the isle. Each of your worship ways has a place in our world. there are some lost souls who would not return to a high end techno presentation of the good news while at the same time there are those who will not be reached in a building full of stuffiness singing songs that are not current.

I don't think either side wants lost people to go to hell but are willing to be used where they are as God leads them. Whether in a tie or a tie dye.

Let's support whatever it takes to reach a world full of lost people with different tastes. My way is better than your way does not belong in this discussion.

So set your worship pride down and trust god to use all kinds of methods to reach all kinds of people.

Anonymous said...

"I don't think either side wants lost people to go to hell but are willing to be used where they are as God leads them. "

On many blogs, the institutional people constantly talk about lost people. Are lost people those who have never heard of Jesus Christ? For example, do they think there are tons of people in the USA who have never heard of Jesus Christ?

What they fail to understand is that our institutional churches are filled with "lost people" who think they are saved.

It is amazing how "lost people" are used so folks will go along with just about anything.

turnureyesonJC said...

Hey Lynn,

I went to fallefromgrace.net.

Did you happen to look at the picture of the guy who is wanting to reach 'young people'?

I am not trying to be mean Sis, but he looks like he was young back when Ronald Reagan was still making movies.

I don't know if his idea of young people is George Burns but I am telling you....that Brother is after the AARP crowd!

Like it or not...the Times..they are a changing!

Anonymous said...

"On many blogs, the institutional people constantly talk about lost people. Are lost people those who have never heard of Jesus Christ? For example, do they think there are tons of people in the USA who have never heard of Jesus Christ?"

Hearing about Jesus is not what makes one saved (or unlost).

"What they fail to understand is that our institutional churches are filled with "lost people" who think they are saved."

I don't think anyone on this blog would disagree. That statement is true in any setting of people grouped together. There are lost people who comment on this blog. I don't know who they are nor am I speculating but I have no problem accepting the fact lost people are among us.

"It is amazing how "lost people" are used so folks will go along with just about anything."

I will become all things to all men so that I may see some saved. 1 Cor. 9:22

I refuse to say God can only win those to Himself in a way I like.

If it has to be traditional, then most of the 3rd world countries are lost. Churches there do not do it our way. I thank Jesus for that.

Anonymous said...

turnyoureyes said:

I don't know if his idea of young people is George Burns but I am telling you....that Brother is after the AARP crowd!

Like it or not...the Times..they are a changing!

February 23, 2011 8:23 AM

What a bigoted statement. You spawn division with such talk little boy.

It's just 'Trash-talking-for-Jesus', yeah I get it. Emerging church has had it's iinfluence on this pup.

Anonymous said...

"I don't know if his idea of young people is George Burns but I am telling you....that Brother is after the AARP crowd!"

Your entire comment reminds of the 'cult of youth' so worshipped in ancient Rome before it fell. You ought to read up on it. Reads a lot like the worship of youth today.

Anonymous said...

"Hearing about Jesus is not what makes one saved (or unlost).
"

One would think that based upon reading the comments of mac supporters.

"It is amazing how "lost people" are used so folks will go along with just about anything."

"I will become all things to all men so that I may see some saved. 1 Cor. 9:22"

another total misapplication of the Word by those who just simply proof text and do not understand context.

Anonymous said...

If it has to be traditional, then most of the 3rd world countries are lost. Churches there do not do it our way. I thank Jesus for that.

February 23, 2011 12:31 PM

it has nothing to do with 'tradition'. in fact, you are advocating "new traditions". In 30 years, they will be making fun of your style.

Style or method has nothing to do with it, yet that is where you choose to spend your time.

And you could not be more wrong about 3rd world missions. We spend a lot of time exporting our "traditions" to them. In fact, ever heard the term "rice Christians"?

Anonymous said...

"it has nothing to do with 'tradition'."

Then be kind enough to tell us what it has to do with?

And, please don't say that the contemporary methods of worship are wrong, unless you can back up your position.

WishIhadknown said...

It has to do with the mean spirited belief that a third or more of a fellowship is expendible. All across this country churches are being divided for no other reason than to crown the preacher king over the congregation. I have witnessed it in my home town, in California, New York and Indiana. Why is it necessary to cause division and send people away? Because you think, as some have suggested, that the people you once called brother and sister are trash? You say it is what the young people want. I have a 17 year old daughter who will argue with you over that. And all of her friends, too. Your way is empting churches not filling them.

Anonymous said...

What the heck is a soul patch?

Anonymous said...

""I will become all things to all men so that I may see some saved. 1 Cor. 9:22"

another total misapplication of the Word by those who just simply proof text and do not understand context.'

I would like to know how this does not mean how it is being used. Can you share with us the proper interpretation?

It seems, to me, that a clear reading of the chapter shows Paul dealing with those presenting the gospel and though he makes no living from it, it is a good and right thing for the church to financially support the leader.

The leader is to be about sharing the gospel at all opportunities and by any means necessary.

It seems though there is a deeper issue for you in this discussion. I was seeing no where where this discussion was dealing with intentionally splitting churches. I was making the case that there is room for traditional and non-traditional churches in our community. Each have their pros and cons and some will reach people that the other will not. This is not a competition, it is about the kingdom.

There are enough churches in our communities that if i did not like the direction the church I attended was heading I could easily find one that would fit my criteria.

It takes 50 cents to move my letter but 5000 dollars to move my pastors.

Not all pastors being more culturally relevant are evil. Not all pastors wearing a suit and tie are bing biblical.

When the bottom line is about us, then we can lose focus of what really matters.

Anonymous said...

http://blog.ncbaptist.org/renewingworship/files/2011/02/worship-wars.gif

workingman said...

I think it a curiosity...How can one person watch and listen to Chip Dorton and be so bored?

While the next is moved to tears?

The answer my friend, is that his heart resonates with mine!