We are proud to partner with Pastor James MacDonald of Harvest Bible Chapel and to offer as an added bonus to this year’s conference the opportunity to attend a live simulcast of the “Elephant Room 2.” FBC Jax Pastor's Conference Website-------------------------------
Who ever thought that the FBC Jax facilities would be used to promote this cast of characters? Who ever thought that the Pastor's Conference would be used to provide a venue to hear what T.D. Jakes or Steven Furtick has to say to pastors?
Where are the deacons and trustees at FBC Jax when it comes to deciding what their facilities are used for?
As an example of just how pathetic it is that Mac and Trey Brunson have hooked up with James MacDonald and Steven Furtick and T.D. Jakes and Mark Driscoll by hosting this "Elephant Room 2" seminar, it was reported today that Chris Rosebrough of the Fighting for the Faith website and radio show was refused entrance at the Elephant Room 2 venue at Harvest Bible Chapel and threatened with arrest.
Apparently Rosebrough did pay his advanced registration fee of $99, but when he showed up at the registration table the workers could not find his name card. He was then informed by church "elder" Jim Rowan that his registration was revoked and he must leave the premises immediately.
Gee, hard-hitting critic of the pastor is refused entrance to the church and threatened with arrest. Where have I heard of THAT before? Hmmmmm....I wonder if they filed official trespass warnings against Rosebrough and his wife?
Thank God for Chris Rosebrough. He has been all over the "Orange Code Revival" nonsense that has been going on up at Furtick's Elevation church the past few weeks. He dubbed the event the "Heretic Olympics", and he has not been afraid to expose the false teachings and the man worship that goes on up at Furtick's church.
James MacDonald, the founder of the Elephant Room concept, was the closing speaker at Furtick's Orange Code Revival, and guess what his topic was that he says he was assigned by Furtick? Yep, the last message of the 12-day revival was focused on first-fruits tithing: in order for revival to come and to continue, giving must increase at Elevation Church, and Christians have to tithe or they'll be cursed.
And THIS is the bunch that Mac and Trey Brunson are bringing to the FBC Jax Pastor's Conference and into the Ruth Lindsay Auditorium.
Welcome to Jacksonville, pastors.
34 comments:
Sorry dawg. Every time I listen to Chris he reminds me more and more of Ron Paul Sr. His is very entertaining though just like Ron Paul.
Never heard of Chris, but this is the Elephant Room's claim:
"We must insist on the biblical Gospel, right doctrine and practice but not isolate ourselves from relationship even with those who believe much differently."
Elephant Room = Fail.
Elephants are known for their memory. Apparently they don't forget (or forgive).
These mega-churches are still living in the 20th century. They believe that they can carry on business the way they always have. That is no longer true. The Internet has leveled the playing field and exposed their unbiblical doctrines.
It amazes me that they continue to teach Old Testament store house tithing when it has been thoroughly refuted, and no pastor can answer questions about contradictions in their sermons.
It looks like they will continue to preach that false teaching to fewer and fewer members until they are all gone.
WWJD?
How many people did Christ threaten with arrest for daring to show up at one of his meetings?
Dog,
You are right about Jerry Vines being a great preacher. I saw him last night at an evangelism conference and all I thought was wow.
Sorry ANON. Jerry Vines is as phony as Al Gore or a three dollar bill. Personal experience!
So it was his word against FBC - such a loving spirit they are presenting to the people of Jacksonville. So glad I am no longer there.
Watchdog Fan!
Chris is very critical of these guys and comes off as self righteous. His coverage has been unfair. Does he ever reach out to these leaders for their side of the story? I doubt it. He couldnt be trusted to behave himself at ER2. That's just my guess.
Read closely, the Rosebrough incident did not occur at the FBCJ venue.
"Elephant Room = Fail."
Haha. Good one, Mark.
Oh brother. What's next?
The one thing that I guess I take away from these WD blogs that expose these pastors and their "armor-bearers" would have to be the power of brainwashing. Why else would people continually subject themselves to these graceless, empty suit pastors.
I do understand in a time of such uncertainty with our governmental institutions and economy how people need something to anchor upon, but good grief, people. Think a bit about you're supporting here. Criticism is grounds for arrest and trespassing notices?
“Gee, hard-hitting critic of the pastor is refused entrance to the church and threatened with arrest. Where have I heard of THAT before? Hmmmmm....I wonder if they filed official trespass warnings against Rosebrough and his wife"
It was not Chris Rosebrough's wife who went with him.
Turned Away at the Door of the Elephant Room
Simple mistake, we all make them.
Anon, that is too funny. Chris Rosebrough absolutely has reached out to these guys. They want no part of him. He has attended these guys conferences, at Nobles' church for example. He is not disruptive in any fashion.
But then again, maybe they assume someone critical of a pastor is a "threat".
this is misleading, I thought it happened at fbcjax too...cause of the way you wrote the article. why again are they calling this the ELEPHanT room...?
and what's wrong with Ron Paul? I voted for him yesterday....
So it was his word against FBC - such a loving spirit they are presenting to the people of Jacksonville. So glad I am no longer there.
Get new glasses anon. I think he was talking about the meeting in Illinois
Anonymous said...
Sorry ANON. Jerry Vines is as phony as Al Gore or a three dollar bill. Personal experience!
January 25, 2012 6:46 PM
I agree with you whole-heartedly on Jerry Vines.
When Homer died this guy was exposed as the fraud that he was.
Eventually and finally evidenced by his going to preach at Darrell Gilyards ministry only after he had retired from robbing FBCJ.
I trust Vines about as far as I could throw the Statue of Liberty!
Sorry folks, Tom's post was clear to me.
He stated that FBCJax hosted a simulcast of The Elephant Room and that Chris Rosebrough tried to attend it at Harvest Bible Chapel - which is James MacDonald's church.
Tom wrote:
"Chris Rosebrough...was refused entrance at the Elephant Room 2 venue at Harvest Bible Chapel and threatened with arrest."
Tom,
Thanks for alerting us about this. What is going on here is truly a three-ring circus!
I'm confused. What is the physical location of the Elephant Room thing? And is that where he was barred from entering?
If it was a church, then it speaks volumes about the reality of religion vs. "they will know we are Christians by our love." It amazes me to realize that in reality, a church is private property and all are not really welcome. The church could have anybody charged with trespassing. So churches need to take down their "all are welcome" signs. It is not true.
Plus it seems many will not bar sexual predators (they instead forgive them,) but if it's about doctrine or criticism, they will bar them. Reminds me of politics.
Anon 12:14 - January 26th
Thanks for letting me know I should re-read the post. You were right, I was wrong thinking it was done @ FBC here in Jacksonville.
But it's good to know the kind of brotherly love betrayed by FBCJAX has been adopted in another church like Harvest Bible Chapel.
Modern Christianity as being practiced in authoritarian [mega-]churches turns people away from Christ. God bless Chris Rosebrough.
Wade Burleson > Our Problem Is Authoritarianism and Not Legalism
Thanks for the link - Thy Peace. Good post.
How does one know if the Christian community or church to which he or she belongs is following Christ's teachings on leadership or is a reflection of the pagan's understanding of authority? The following are ten indicators:
(1). There is never any freedom to question the leader.
check
(2). The leader often makes claims of having special insights from God, insights that the laity are unable to possess.
check
(3). Disagreement with the leader is deemed a sign of the devil's influence in one's life.
check
(4). Events are designed to bring attention and praise to the leader rather than equipping others to do the work of the ministry.
check
(5). Any concept of equality is immediately labeled rebellion or the end result of a "liberal" denial of the Bible.
check
(6) Authoritarian leaders are only comfortable around like-minded leaders; thus, there is an unoffical 'speaking tour' where only imperial, authoritarian leaders share the platform with each other.
check
(7). The measure of success becomes the number of people who follow the leader ("It must be of God! Look at how many come to hear me speak!")
check
(8). If a person leaves the community or church, the problem is always in the person who leaves, not the leadership.
check
(9). Leaders who wrongly perceive themselves as those "with authority" insulate their lives by demanding absolute loyalty through giving large financial benefits to their closest 'advisors.'
check
(10). The ultimate end of this kind of Christian leadership is always more; more money, more power, more followers, more publicity, more, more, more...
check
If you haven't read Erin Benzinger's blog posts re Furtick and Macdonald and their tweeting behavior around being justifiably critiqued for this venture, as well as TD Jakes's messages being critiqued, I would encourage you to do so. The whole Code Orange and Elephant Room conferences seem to be running together, since they are using several of the same straying speakers and happened so close together.
Macdonald and Furtick are hypocrites and bullies of the first order. Macdonald's behavior from last fall where he called people who were trying to correct him "Nazis" continues unabated. Furtick has always been that way. It is no surprise that two juvenile troublemaking boys would gravitate toward one another and continue to push the envelope.
Here are the links to Erin's blog.
"We Can Work It Out:" Is James MacDonald Qualified to Have this Conversation?
"We Can Work It Out:" Is Steven Furtick Qualified to Have this Conversation?
Anon. 3:56 AM. Jerry Vines is still collecting money from First Baptist. When Mac Brunson made Jerry Vines "Pastor Emeritus" that qualified him to collect a salary from First Baptist.Kinda makes you wonder if those two collaborated on this before Jerry Vines retired.
Anon. 3:56 AM. Jerry Vines is still collecting money from First Baptist. When Mac Brunson made Jerry Vines "Pastor Emeritus" that qualified him to collect a salary from First Baptist.Kinda makes you wonder if those two collaborated on this before Jerry Vines retired.
January 26, 2012 6:41 PM
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Whomever wrote the above more than likely is a long time member of FBJ and knows what they talking about - both Vines & Brunson have become millionaires off of First Baptist!
II John 9-11 Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ , hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ , he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine , receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed, for he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Wow….
Hard to believe that James has thrown in with this bunch. “Pastors” he roared against for as long as I attended Harvest Bible Chapel, which was more than 10 years ago. Apparently James has tasted from the cup of international fame and notoriety and liked it. I never thought I would see the day that he would show such tolerance. I remember him very boldly condemning Bill Hybels from the pulpit when Hybels was “ministering” to President Clinton. It must have been part envy as James now seems to be seeking the fame that Hybels had reached decades earlier. What could Hybels and MacDonald debate (if you could get them into the same room)?
Terriergal re: Erin Benzingers blog
She thinks Thabiti Anywabile and Phil Johnson are trusted Christian leaders?
She should do her homework- these guys think women are second class citizens and should be silent in matters re theology
If the methodology they use to preach gains 10 followers but turns away 20, I don't call that blessed by God.
Looking forward to hearing Mark Dever and Al Mohler tomorrow ( Saturday 28th,) at FBCJax.
They always make you think and neither of them are screamers.
" Anonymous said...
Wow….
Hard to believe that James has thrown in with this bunch. “Pastors” he roared against for as long as I attended Harvest Bible Chapel, which was more than 10 years ago. Apparently James has tasted from the cup of international fame and notoriety and liked it.
January 27, 2012 1:12 PM
I agree with you Anon. But when I saw the million dollar house I new that it was only a matter of time before James would either succumb or be revealed.As one of the bloggers all ways says:
"WATCH WHAT ALL PREACHERS DO WITH THE MONEY".
If they live a life of luxury off of the offerings from the people,it is always a sign that something is wrong.
And it's only a matter of times before their doctrine,doctrinal tolerance or daoctrinal stand is compromised.
"And I mean always"!!
MacDonald shared interesting insight about his relationship with Bill Hybels during the ER2 event. They seem to collaborate regularly for over 10 years and have agreed to disagree on some things. I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth and these are not quotes, just my best recollection. I believe he said he trusts Hybels heart.
"Jerry Vines is still collecting money from First Baptist. When Mac Brunson made Jerry Vines "Pastor Emeritus" that qualified him to collect a salary from First Baptist."
AS A FORMER MEMBER ON THE FINANCE COMMITTEE I CAN TELL YOU THAT IS NOT TRUE. The only person that ever received anything after they left was Dr. Linsay's widow; Shirley Lindsey and that amounted to 25k per year until her death and we had to convince her to take it.
"... there is a slice of truth in every lie." WD, your writing is intentionally deceptive.
Anonymous said...
"... there is a slice of truth in every lie." WD, your writing is intentionally deceptive."
January 28, 2012 11:04 PM
Nothing is wrong with Dr.Dogs writings Anon.
The true problem is your apparent lack of discernment!
Thank you for this post. You opened my eyes up to this.
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