"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Monday, January 21, 2013

Caner Now Attacking Muslims, Calling them "Towel Heads" and "Wife Beaters" and "Living in Caves" - Tells Them to "GET SAVED AND SHAVED"

Just days after Ergun and Emir Caner were in the recording studio of apologist John Ankerberg recording a program on Muslim beliefs, Ergun Caner has decided the best way to love his Muslim brothers to Jesus, is to tweet hateful, racist remarks to his Muslim detractors.

Below are tweets in Ergun Caner's Twitter feed last night (Sunday 1/20/13), where apparently he is responding to Tweets from Muslims and bloggers.  You see, the whole issue of Caner's "decade of deceit" has resurfaced, after John Ankerberg published a ridiculous statement here to defend his recent decision to invite The Caner brothers on his TV show.

The Caners claim to have love in their hearts for Muslims - in fact Ergun says he does what he does, that he entered the Christian ministry to reach out to his fellow Muslim brothers - yet his own Twitter feed displays hate and pushes ugly stereotypes of Muslims. Hardly a way to express love. 

But this is nothing new for Caner. As I have chronicled on this blog, he has a history of saying derogatory statements about women and minorities. He once said took a swipe at Mexicans saying he would adopt one if he needed his lawn cut or work on his roof. He has made multiple derogatory statements about women, and blacks; yet he still is a popular speaker to youth groups, and in fact just finished speaking at the "Strength to Stand" student conference in Pigeon Forge, TN.

Face it: Caner is the evangelical version of Lance Armstrong. He gained his notoriety based on a lie about his past, he perpetuated the lie for years and years, and finally when exposed he chose to belittle and bully people on the Internet who have tried to call him to account for his lies. The biggest difference between Caner and Armstrong is that Caner's peers have decided to embrace him and hail him as a hero, rather than defending their own profession by acknowledging the fraud from within their own ranks. Now Ankerberg is joining in and allowing it all to resurface again.

I just wonder if Ankerberg will issue a statement now defending Caner's stereotypes of Muslims as cave-dwellers, wife-beaters, bus-bombers, and towel-head stalkers?  Or is that the idea of how Ankerberg and the Caners are reaching out to Muslims now? Apparently Caner's defenders love these racist remarks, judging from the "Retweets" and "Favorites" marked on the Tweets below.

Perhaps that will be the subtitle to the Caner/Ankerberg TV that will air soon on Islam: "GET SAVED AND SHAVED".





97 comments:

Thy Peace said...

Ergun Caner gets away with southern baptists because ... Affinity fraud! Caner belongs to the southern baptist tribe, so he can say and do anything (except be a homosexual) and southern baptists will love him for all the stuff he does.

Moses Model said...

Ergun has said elsewhere that he was "loved to the cross", because Jerry and the rest of Stelzer Rd did not call him names (even mentioned towelhead at least once) or make fun of him. Apparently Ergun has long since abandoned that strategy.

Unfortunately far more often he refers to himself self-deprecatingly as a towelhead: "Thanks for listening to a towelhead" "The towelhead shows up to the door to date your daughter".

Yeah, I was shocked and in the recent context of the John Ankerberg interviews, it is even more shocking. To be fair, maybe he received a death threat or something, those things happen all the time on the internet from Muslims, Atheists, and Christians alike. Still, even then I cannot think it would be wise to publicly slur and insult people while preaching at a youth camp and weeks after trying to win the Muslim world to Christ.

Tell us what you really think Ergun.

Rob Ayers said...

What amazes me is that posters have problems with someone - this time Ergun Caner - and then utilize the same name calling and tactics they say they deplore. What is thy name? - Hypocrisy - pure hypocrisy.

I don't like Caner's method - I believe they are anti-productive in our current cultural environment without a heavy dose of scripture to back it up. The name calling and stereotypes need to be left behind and someone needs to tell him so to his face "in love." But can anybody explain to me the sayings of John the Baptist and compare them to Ergun Caner? "Get right or get left" is the motif of each method I believe. Right?

If you want to hate on Caner, fine. Just remember you are accountable.

Rob

Steven Fowler said...

"....anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber." (NIV)
Christians cannot negotiate (love) the unregenerate/enemies of God (lost) into salvation/eternal life.
They must come in the way the Master prescribes: Godly sorrow, humble and contrite of heart, repentance, grace through faith alone not of works should any man boast, and being a doer of the Word not just a hearer.
(See Matthew 13, Mark 4, 2 Corinthians 7:10, James 1 & 2, Matthew 7:21)

Anonymous said...

These big-shot baptists have awfully thin skin don't they?

Anonymous said...

Rob,

Telling the truth about someone's lies is not hate. That bit of bad logic comes straight from the culture - not from the Bible.

Miles Morrison said...

I remember seeing Dr. Caner at an event several years ago at Southwestern. At the time, I was completely unaware of his situation, and really all I knew about him was that he was a former Muslim turned Christian. I had seen a video series he did on other religions and their world views, so I was interested to hear him talk. I remember the feeling of awkwardness when his entire message was basically, "in this life you will face haters, stand strong against them and don't let them win." He might have used the word hater 25+ times during the course of his message. It wasn't until after I got home and did some reading online that I found out what had happened. Honestly, it's embarrassing to me that he continues (without any kind of repentance) the way he does, and it's sad that many within SBC realm are fairly ignorant like I was.
But to his tweets about Muslims, that kind of behavior is disgusting and unacceptable, especially from someone who claims to be a respectable Christian scholar. Makes me sick.

Thanks for sharing this, this guy needs to be brought into the light and exposed for what he is.

Anonymous said...

I used to follow Ergun Caner on Twitter, he followed me back. We even traded a few direct messages. We discussed some disagreements and also joked about pop culture references. In August someone tweeted about Liberty U having Donald Trump as a guest speaker. I responded by suggesting LU has a track record of encouraging, protecting, and defending blowhards, comparing Trump to Caner. Next thing you know Ergun blocked me. I guess I betrayed him. Ha

Moses Model said...

Rob Ayers,

Can you give an example of name calling that has been done that is on the same level as "towelhead"?

Steven Fowler,

Do you agree that insulting someone tends to be counter productive?

56 years a Baptist, mostly SBC said...

Rob,
Caner is a liar, documented and proven to be so, by several different people who compare his stories with actual records about his life. He has stood in pulpits and before our military and lied about his background, what he has done in life, etc. Entire sermons have been shown to be false statements. Why would you take the side of a confirmed and unrepentant liar?

Anonymous said...

Proverbs 6:17

Things that God hates...
"a proud look, a lying tongue"

Anonymous said...

I thank God that finally someone is speaking up for Christians.

I am sick and tired of these deadbeat camel jockeys pushing us around.

Praise God for Ergun standing up to these punks.

Jesus was a man who spoke the bold truth and if you can't handle the truth, then go Buddhist.

Anonymous said...

That this is going on the the Southern Baptist convention is not surprising at all. I spent about 5 years in 2 SBC churches and I can tell you that I don't think they would discipline a pastor for anything. SBC pastors can divorce, they can plagiarize and lie about it to their entire congregation, spiritually abuse their flocks, extort money through the false tithing doctrine, and yet people will still go to their churches, rank and file, deceiving and being deceived. I used to think that Catholics were crazy for going to mass while knowing all the stuff about the popes and the pedophiles, etc. But southern baptists are no different. They continue to go and support, all the while knowing that "something" is wrong.

Tom Chantry said...

Oh Dear. Do we have to do this all over again? I hoped he was simply going to go away.

Muslim by Choice said...

Ergun Caner is mad because many Christians are beginning to realise the myths of Islam by him, he also couldn't handle my new video about him and his 'soul mate' John Ankerberg

Sadly he got my Twitter account suspended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0FmSqEV6kw

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Moses Model - you have just nailed it and exposed Caner as a hypocrite. He indeed says in his testimony that the church where he was saved that they didn't ridicule him, they didn't call him a towel head or "sand nigger" (his words)....yet here, just days after he records a TV show with Ankerberg to reach Muslims, he is calling them terrible names.

Daniel Davis said...

Ugh.

Thy Peace said...

Alpha & Omega Ministries [James White] > An Open Letter to Dr. John Ankerberg

h/t: WD's tweet

Marc said...

*sigh*. It amazes me that this is happening among southern baptists but don't go calling every sb a fake or deceitful. That shows a lack of wisdom and discernment, and also shows ignorance and spiritual immaturity. I'm the pastor of a sb church and have preached on false teachers like Osteen, rob bell, Benny henn, etc and now Caner the deceiver. The fact is regardless of denomination false teachers are everywhere. I could easily say look to the Pentecostal crowd and how easy it is to scam them for money with counterfeit signs and gibberish, and get paid big bucks. The problem in any denomination is a lack of biblical preaching, discernment, disciplship training, and church discipline. As a southern baptist church we will probably resign from the SBC if they support Caner. No doubt. Lets biblical and stand on the Word of God.

Anonymous said...

"Praise God for Ergun standing up to these punks."

TROLL, why are you still posting comments on this blog?

You have been totally exposed as a false prophet (proclaiming that this blog would end by the close of 2012) and shown to everyone that your prayers are out of God's will.

You are a Joke - TROLL.
We are laughing at you.

Your track record shows that your comments are ALWAYS wrong.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Excuse me, but this is the same man who is advising muslims to shave? Ha ha!

New BBC Open Forum said...

For anyone who is still following the John Langworthy story out of Clinton, MS, there have been new developments this morning.

Anonymous said...

Hey Marc, you don't suppose that the fact that you are still a S.B. church, knowing that you are unequally yoked with guys like Graham, and Caner, shows a lack of wisdom and discernment, and also shows ignorance and spiritual immaturity?

Dr Ergun Caner (satire) said...

BOOM Honey! Now its a partay!

Look at all of you getting your turbans in a twist. Everybody needs to calm down. Unless you've been persecuted like me, or stood firm in the face of danger on the front lines of apologetics (such as speaking at Christian summer camps), you can't possibly begin to criticize my tweets. You don't understand them. You never will.

So why don't you all go back down to your basements, and leave the saving of the Muslim world to Emir and I.

You didn't really think I'd be quiet forever, did you?

Moses Model said...

Dr. Caner,

Thank you for once again gracing this blog. It is a privilege, hold on...MOMMMM! Can I have some hotpockets? NO, I said HAM and CHEESE...that we can read this in our mother's basements. We are so much cooler online.

I have to ask why did you use a youth camp as the opportunity to should racial epithets at your critics?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Wow, a blast from the past!  The fake Ergun Caner is back! Glad to see you here, my friend!



Readers, go here to see some absolute classic videos of our friend.

New BBC Open Forum said...

BOOM Honey! Now its a partay!

Well, all right! How 'bout some new videos?!

Anonymous said...

To me, Ergun is no different that Manti Te'o and Lance Armstrong.

All 3 lied for personal gain in some way.

The public, Christians included, wants icons to worship and is willing to look past the character vacuum as long as they hear what they want to hear.

These guys should be fading into antiquity. But they won't. There will always be a consumer for their elixir.

56 years a Baptist, mostly SBC said...

There is no real Ergun Caner, he is a fake Christian, a fake preacher, and a fake human being. Nothing he says can be trusted, given the history of lies he has perpetrated. His existence proves that being a preacher does not mean you are living the life of a Christian! New word: Caner (verb), to create a false personna to lie to the world while posing as a Christian preacher.

Anonymous said...

Someone needs to retweet Caner's tweets to that Calvary Chapel in CA that threw up their own member for publically criticizing Caner.

Debbie Kaufman said...

This is one reason why I quit blogging. Ergun has not changed. His venue has changed. That is all that has changed. He is now being schmoozed by Fundamentalist Baptist outside the SBC.People are still defending his lies, and they sincerely do not see anything wrong with what Ergun is doing or saying. People are just as corrupt, they are just hiding it better. My question is when we will become the church of scripture? When will abuse and control end, freedom abound through the Holy Spirit? When will we quit producing celebrities, most who turn out to be fake and I imagine the words Christ or the Apostle Paul would have if Ergun pulled this schtick in the first century.

Rob:James White's letter says it all. He has been told face to face, but at the time his celebrity was so big, his act so well done, that he thought he was what he was pretending to be, invincible. Good grief. Not even Liberty dropping him did any good. He's still telling the same Lies, I mean stories.

Fake Ergun: I saw the videos again and laughed just as hard as I did four years ago. I have decided to concentrate on my own life and church. I love the church I have been part of for 20 years. It's the nearest thing to heaven and so why not just concentrate on being and serving there?

Moses Model said...

Debbie,

When he was on base in New River, I was already attending Liberty's seminary. This all happened under my nose. When I think of the conversations, we had. Like Dr. Falwell, he was very gregarious. If he knew you he would stop and ask how things were.

He was extremely nice to me and my family. Still, I feel responsible. The more he lies, the more I feel like I need to warn people, needed to have warned people. My recent spurt in blogging has been prompted, because he has visited some of my old stomping grounds.

Now John Ankerberg is telling people that my alma mater found that Ergun never lied, I have to push forward. I understand how people can be deceived by him. Maybe he even deceives himself.

I have to fix what I hold dear.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Hi Debbie - glad to hear from you, hope you are well!

It is exactly THIS, which compels me to blog and why I still blog. I still care about people who are duped by the likes of Caner and others who are professional religious men teaching nutting doctrines. The exposure of Caner was sorely needed 3 years ago (hard to believe it was that long ago), and as we see with Ankerberg, exposure via blogs is STILL needed to keep these guys from rewriting history and exposing more people to the Caner deceptions.

If you want to see a good example of the damage that Caner-gate does to Christianity, go visit McGough's blog, the "Bible Wheel Blog", and read here how the Caner mess helped to transition him out of modern evangelical Christianity.

The Caner fiasco really is as James White says, the great Evangelical cover up that is doing probably just as much damage to evangelical Christianity as anything else that is out there inside or outside. It really is exposing much of the "church" and its professional paid leaders as frauds and charletons.

It is sad, but someone has to keep shining the light.

Anonymous said...

This is from my website, normangeisler.net. I do not expect you to publish this but it is truth.

Ergun is an outspoken converted Muslim which in Muslim lands is a capital crime. Since this is contrary to law in the United States, his Muslim critics have resorted to character assassination instead. Unfortunately, other extremists who disagree with some of his theological views have piled on and are kicking him while he is down.



Second, a blogger-critic refuses to give his real name, using a pseudonym. This violates a moral and legal rule that one has a right to face his accusers. [This is also a good way to avoid libel charges.]



Third, his critics often assume, contrary to American law, that one is guilty until proven innocent. Really, the burden of proof for these allegations is on the accuser, not on the accused.



Fourth, not one of these accusations is about any serious doctrinal or moral issue. Ergun has never been found guilty of either of these.



Fifth, out of a couple thousand sermons, nearly twenty books, and hundreds of media interviews, the relatively few mistakes are trivial by comparison. It is like looking at a glass 97% full and complaining that it is 3% empty! I am sure that anyone who wished to do a search on other leaders who have communicated as much in the past decade or so could do a hatchet job on some of them too.



Sixth, Ergun has readily admitted the mistakes he has made and has apologized for them publically. In February, 2010, he said in part on his Web site that he “never intentionally misled anyone…. For those times where I misspoke, said it wrong, scrambled words, or was just outright confusing, I apologize and will strive to do better.” Even the public statement made by Liberty University on June 29, 2010 made this clear when it said, “Dr. Caner has cooperated with the Board committee and has apologized for the discrepancies and misstatements that led to this review.”



Seventh, by comparison, his critics have not apologized for anything they have done, even though they have wrongly: a) assumed Ergun’s guilt without proof, b) impugned his intentions, and c) assassinated his character. This is to say nothing of the pain, misery, and agony they have afflicted on Ergun, his family, and the problems this has caused at Liberty University. For this they owe Dr. Caner a clear and contrite public apology.



Finally, his critics have not followed the instructions of Matthew 18 by going first to their brother and then to his church privately on these allegations. Rather, they have practiced unbiblical gossip in passing on defaming charges about another brother in Christ to others—indeed, making these charges public.



New BBC Open Forum said...

Norm Geisler (if that was really you),

You are either (1)naive, (2) willfully ignorant, or (3) just plain blind. I will not entertain the other possibilities.

You preached at Bellevue Baptist in August 2010. I enjoyed most of your sermon which presented a good "middle of the road" position between calvinism and arminianism. (You might want to omit the comedic attempts as they fell rather flat.) For someone of your age and apparent wisdom, your blind loyalty to Ergun Caner and support of his documented lies is both surprising and disappointing.

Anonymous said...

Do you seriously not see the hypocrisy of posting an anonymous comment criticizing those who write an anonymous blog?

I really didn't need to read anything else you wrote after that.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon poster -

You are making allegations of libel, yet you don't do it to my face. You can contact me privately at the email address given on the blog. My identity is not a secret at all, and I'd be happy to speak to you.

I wish you would have addressed the topic of the blog post you commented on: that is, Ergun Caner making ugly and racist remarks about the people he is claims he loves and wants to become Christians.

Please address that in your next comment.

Moses Model said...

I would like to point out that links to Norman Geisler's defenses have been in almost everyone of my videos.

Also, I deal with the arguments. Most notably there is the one where I ask if Norman is calling Ergun a liar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak94o7GxMNw

There is the Andy Griffith video where I give three examples of Ergun claiming to have watched American television before coming to America. Geisler argues that Ergun is only joking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38q_4Lnd6AQ

I have dealt with Geisler's defenses of Ergun's claims of his father's polygamy in the following videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYtPj7bDRN8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADd89Uhlr9o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsS9nXsc8AI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ5HzSh7mgs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqbKKpOEjek

One, it is false to assume that all Muslims who criticize Ergun just want him dead. Two, I have dealt with and continue to deal with Geisler's arguments. I even posted Tim Lee's defenses. I will begin posting a link to John Ankerberg's defenses. I want people to make up their own mind. Three, Geisler, Lee, and Ankerberg don't deal with the quotes that bloggers like me provide. Four, it is generally good practice, especially with your children, to never assume that someone will do the wrong thing. It probably makes WD's day to permit a comment that the commenter says will not be posted.

Debbie Kaufman said...

Anonymous: I think you had better get a grip here. There is so much proof against Caner, which you can find anywhere, that the Associated Press wrote on the Caner scandal, as well as Christianity Today. There is so much proof that reporters said they hardly had to ask questions the documentation and proof is so plain and well done. You need to get real here, because it's hard for me to believe you are based on the outcome of all of this from 3 years ago. Provide proof? You have definitely got to be kidding here. Ergun is a bombastic bully, bigot(Mexicans, blacks,women, Muslims and I'm sure more). Watch his past appearances alone back to back. We didn't have to do anything to Ergun. He did it to himself and provided us with all the information himself. He just didn't know it. :)

WD: Thank you. I remember Richard and his great support and posts when the heat was really on us. I will definitely read his post.

The videos from the fake Ergun were helpful as they are hilarious, but also factually accurate and were there when other pieces of information were "disappearing". I see Tom Chantry's comment and remember his part in all of this. He wrote some great stuff on his blog along with just plain good advice and support.

It just seems, we put fires out and another 10 break out. I hear and agree with what you are saying of course. I don't regret anything. Not one thing. But it did break my spirit. It did do that.

Debbie Kaufman said...

Anonymous "Geisler": I might also have you think about this. What truth telling born again, changed by the Holy Spirit Christian is going to call his own the names he calls Muslims(of which he claims to have been 100% Jihad etc.? Sand monkey to a Muslim means exactly what WD says it means. Why would you call anyone this? Towel head? Really? As I said Ergun condemns himself. All we had to do was take the time to dig up information. He made it extremely easy being so full of himself, and the Christian community so full of him after 9/11. He fed their bigotries. Big time. He was everywhere. Even on the Zola Levitt program and the widely watched 700 Club.

His tweets condemn him again. I read them and stopped because I could't read anymore. I can't stand him treating people in this way. It's the opposite of Christian and sin.

I did not start out to destroy him. I wanted him to simply repent and stop lying. If he would have done that, it would have been sufficient. But he didn't. Stop the bigotry etc. 3 years later and he is just as obnoxious as ever. He was exposed and yet he continues on.

Thy Peace said...

The Anon who posted a section of Norman Geisler's Defense of Ergun Caner is surely not Normal Geisler. Also the charge against anonymous critic(s) was mainly aimed at Turretinfan, who has replied exhaustively to Norman Geisler's support of Ergun Caner ...

All the below links are from Turretinfan's blog:

Responding to Norman Geisler's Defense of Ergun Caner - Part 1

Responding to Norman Geisler's Defense of Ergun Caner - Part 2

Wrapping Up Geisler's Defense of Caner

Dr. White's Responses to Dr. Geisler

Some Things that Dr. Geisler Overlooked

Rebutting Norman Geisler.

All this was covered in July 3rd to 7th of 2010.

New BBC Open Forum said...

There, I fixed it. :-)

Is Norman Geisler calling Ergun Caner a liar?

Apologist Acrobats and Andy Griffith

Apologist Acrobat Norman Geisler Flips Ergun Caner's Deceit into Truth

Apologist Acrobatics and Polygamy - The Epilogue

Mother Smuggling and Ergun Caner - Introduction

Mother Smuggling and Ergun Caner - USMC

Mother Smuggling and Ergun Caner - Again

Very good documentation... well done! And all in Ergun Caner's own words.

Simple question: If your family made one major move during your childhood, say to another city or country, do you not remember how old you were at that time if you were old enough to be in school? How difficult is it to remember that you moved from Turkey to the USA when you were 12? Or 14? Or 16? You should at least remember which grade you were in in school.

Much of the time he sounds like he's making it up as he goes along which is, I guess, why he's told so many versions. It's much more difficult to keep up with lies than the truth.

One small criticism if you don't mind... the background music about drove me nuts! It almost drowned out Ergun's words and distracted greatly.

You asked, "Do you still believe he was only joking?" No, I still believe he's a joke.

New BBC Open Forum said...

A wise watchdog recently wrote:

And these guys wonder why we’re in a post-Christian nation? They need to look no further than the likes of Ergun Caner and his defenders. That says it all to a world who examines Christianity and determines it is a fraud.

Sad but true. Ergun is but one of a long line of greedy, hypocritical charlatans peddling the gospel for attention, power, and money. Follow the money.

Moses Model said...

Thanks BBC Open Forum,

I haven't figured out how to post links in comments yet.

I get so little structural feedback. Did all the music drive you nuts? Is there something else I can do better?

Joe Blackmon said...

Not a fan of Ergun or Emir, but I have no problem with him calling those folks the things that he does. And yes, Tommy boy, I know you think muslims will get to heaven if they are sincere in their islamic faith. God's word says different, however.

Anonymous said...

This is so confusing, not to mention a waste of time.

The bottom line is Caner lied for the furtherence of his "ministry" (himself).

I can forgive him. But his street cred is dead. Forever. So I was done long ago. Obviously many still aren't, and that's too bad for them.

Moses Model said...

Joe,

You have no problem calling Muslims towelheads. Are there any other slurs that are fine with you? The movie Jaws has a slew of slurs against Jews. Are you fine if Ergun started using those?

Anonymous said...

It is amazing how uninformed most of you are about Caner's denomination affiliation. Caner is an Independent Baptist, at an Independent Baptist College. I know he has had SBC connections in the past but has now moved to the Independent Baptist Camp.

Caner certainly is not perfect and has messed up. But what amazes me about this crowd is that most of you are doing to him what you accuse him of doing to muslims.

I got a call from a friend who asked me to read this post about Caner. I did... and for the life of me I can't see how this blog glorifies God because it is filled with such hate. It also seems to be determined to destroy people. I just don't see the Father smiling at the deceptions of a preacher or the hateful responses that seek to destroy.

Moses Model said...

Anon 10:33,

Yes, he is mostly Independent Baptist, but he still frequents Southern Baptist Churches and Calvary Chapels. Also, he has been invited back to the FRC's Watchman on the Wall.

Thy Peace said...

I can't see how this blog glorifies God because it is filled with such hate.

Yes. God hates reasoning, thinking, questioning. I finally get it. We all need to get major brain lobotomy before becoming Christians. God hates thinking people. Yes we need to glorify God, so let us get our lobotomies quickly. All for the glory of God.

Also, WD's earlier comment about all the unthinking and unquestioning Christians left in churches will allow more of the pillaging and fraud. All for the glory of God.

M. Joy said...

I've followed this Ergan Caner story with much interest as I had a personal encounter with him back before he was exposed. My husband and I lived in a large city in Turkey from 2000-2002. We had a pretty good immersion in the culture, lived side by side with other Turkish people and got to know a little of the language. Approximately six years ago (I estimate it was around 2007), we saw an ad that a local church was hosting a talk by Ergun Caner, a converted Muslim from Turkey. We knew nothing of Caner, but were curious, as we knew how rare Muslim converts were.

So, we attended the service and heard Ergun's sermon.The first thing we noticed was Ergun's English was WAY too good for someone who learned English as a second language. He used colloquialisms that foreigners just wouldn't use. His overall mannerisms were also too American. (The way he carried himself, the humor, the facial expressions) It was just ODD.

After the service, we went up to Ergun and I spoke to him in Turkish, with just a basic Turkish greeting. His reaction was one of raised eyebrows, then he answered me back in English with a long, drawn out "hiiiiiiiiiiii". We mentioned that we were intrigued with his story because we lived in Turkey - he asked us about living there, but his questions weren't consistent with someone who knew the culture. One of the things he asked me was whether or not I had to wear the hijab while we lived there. That was a strange question because most women who live in modern cities in Turkey do not wear head coverings. If he had lived there, he would have known that. He also didn't seem to know about some of the Turkish foods we talked about eating while we lived there. After a few other exchanges with him, we left the church.

As we drove away. I turned to my husband and said, "It seemed like we knew more about Turkey than he did." And then my husband said, "Yeah, something's just not right." We never gave it any thought after that because we are not Southern Baptists and don't run in those circles. But, when it came out in 2010 that Caner's story was mostly made up, our experience with him made sense.

One of the things that floors me the most is that Caner was hired as the head of the LU seminary with so little vetting. Where was the discernment of Jerry Falwell? And the board members at LU? My husband and I are not in the ministry, have never spent a day in seminary, yet we could sense after one meeting with Caner that something was fishy.

Anonymous said...

"Yes. God hates reasoning, thinking, questioning. I finally get it. We all need to get major brain lobotomy before becoming Christians. God hates thinking people. Yes we need to glorify God, so let us get our lobotomies quickly. All for the glory of God"

I dont' believe God hates reasoning and thinking. However, it is clear from this blog site that the bias is driving how the stories are reported. Just like the media... can't report without fanning the flames.

I too question... but my motivation is to discern truth. Not destroy someone I don't like. Big difference.

WishIhadknown said...

For those of you who misuse the “innocent until proven guilty” excuse. When did Lance Armstrong become a liar, when he first denied using performance enhancing drugs or when the weight of evidence become so overwhelming that there was no deigning the truth anymore? Was he a truthful person when he won his lawsuit against the people who reported he used performance enhancing drugs or was he a liar?

Moses Model said...

Anon 9:24,

Speaking for myself, I do not wish to destroy anyone. I do wish to warn people so they don't make the same mistakes I did. Also, if Ergun and Norman will just admit he lied to those Marines during the midst of two wars, all my videos come down.

Seriously though, have you seen the heavy hitters that Ergun has in his line up: Norman Geisler, Brian Broderson, Emir Caner, Tim Lee, John Ankerberg, Paige Patterson, Mac Brunson, Jerry Vines, and Tony Perkins? Ankerberg and Lee are both proclaiming that Liberty University, the largest evangelical university and home to the Liberty Counsel, believes that when Ergun said:

I came over during the Iranian crisis. Ayatollah Khomeini had taken control. The Shaw of Iran had been kicked out. And Ayatollah Khomeini said this, “We will not stop until America is an Islamic nation.” So in 1978, my father, my mother, my two brothers, my father’s other wives, and my half-brothers and sisters came to this country. How is it that Muslims can come to this country with other wives? Well it is called the Abraham lie. “This is my sister.” It explains our last names being the same. And so he would say, “This is my sisters.”

Ergun did not mean that he came to America in 1978 with his father, mother, two brothers, his father's other wives, and his half brothers and half sisters. With that much Christian clout, all we can do is warn people. God help us.

Anonymous said...

Thank you M. Joy for sharing about your personal encounter with Ergun Caner. Your observations are very interesting!

It's shameful that even though Ergun has been exposed as an opportunistic conman, abusive mocker and pathological liar, that other "ministry" leaders continue to cover for him and lend him credibility.

It makes me wonder...exactly how much fakery and deception is acceptable, and even practiced, in some so-called "ministry" circles?

If they continue to insist on foisting Ergun on the church, what else are they palming off on us? Just food for thought. Carol

Anonymous said...

Thank you, M. Joy, for sharing here about your first-hand experience and concerns regarding Ergun Caner. Your perspective is unique and needs to be heard.

And thanks also to WD, Debbie, and others who have clearly exposed Caner's lies. Debbie, don't feel discouraged because he continues in his deceitful ways. Even in this, he (and those who continue to endorse him) are exposing themselves for the frauds that they are.

May we all continue to be discerning and speak up when we realize "something's just not right."

Big Blue Fan in Asia
p.s. Good grief, WD. I'm definitely not a robot but those "words" are tough to decipher sometimes. Anyone else have problems with this? Maybe I'm just getting too old. :(

Anonymous said...

I spoke with Ergun this weekend.

He is getting a lawyer and is tired of this harrasment.

Please stop the madness and leave this Brother alone.

It may end up costing you a lot of money.

Anonymous said...

Moses Model,

I don't know if you are still in the Lynchburg area or not, but I am. Almost everyone I know from Thomas Road or LU thinks Ergun Caner is a liar and a big joke. He was basically fired from LU although maybe not in the manner we would have liked. Wish LU wouldn't have been quite so silent on the issue but there could be some legal reasons for that. I have not seen Ergun speaking at anything TRBC or LU related since he left. I do know he was unable to sell his houses...he must have given up and rented them out.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 0900

It's not likely Butch wants to get anywhere near the daylight a lawsuit would bring.

LA

Anonymous said...

Sure you did. Silly TROLL! Ergun couldn't get a lawyer anywhere to file a case as he has no case. His words are his words.

james said...

"Anonymous said...

I spoke with Ergun this weekend.

He is getting a lawyer and is tired of this harrasment.

Please stop the madness and leave this Brother alone.

It may end up costing you a lot of money.

January 28, 2013 at 9:00 AM"

Wonder what grounds he thinks he can file suit on?

No slander or liable as everything being spoken about can be proven by Caner's own words.

Lots of ground there for a counter suit as well.

I would dare say that Dog is not worried or scared in the least.

Anonymous said...

This Blog WILL be sued for defamation.

Here is the definition of defamation:

Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation a negative or inferior image.

We will see you in civil court unless you cease and desist.

Moses Model said...

Anon 8:03PM,

Desist what? Could you be more specific? Please provide a quote that you have a problem with.

An Attorney said...

The defamation definition is wrong. The statement has to be proven to be false and that it was published or made knowing that it was false or with reckless disregard as to whether it was false. The Dog is guilty of neither, because the statements he made are TRUE and the statements Caner has made are FALSE!

Anonymous said...

Then by that definition Ergun Caner defamed himself.

Julie Anne said...

Anonymous 8:03:

Do you have any idea how hard it is to win a defamation lawsuit? My pastor sued me for defamation ($500,000) and listed 20-something phrases that I said about him online in the lawsuit. Not one - not even ONE of those twenty-something phrases met even the FIRST level of defamation. And in order for it to be defamation, it has to meet TWO tiers of the defamation: lying and malice. The judge dismissed the case and he knew he lost so bad he didn't appeal. He just had to pay my attorney fees and they totaled close to $60,000.

You are just wasting your money. Don't be a fool. If you don't like what you'er reading, click the little x in the top corner and run along.

Anonymous said...

There have been about $17.4 million in trial awards against bloggers to date, according to the Media Law Resource Center in New York, a nonprofit clearinghouse that tracks free-speech cases.

A negative Yelp review could cost one woman close to $1 million.

Jane Perez, a Virginia woman who wrote a scathing Yelp review of the contracting company that worked on her home, is being sued by Christopher Dietz for $750,000, according to the Washington Post.

This is serious...LEAVE ERGUN ALONE

Anonymous said...

"It may end up costing you a lot of money."

Consider the source. The same TROLL prophesied that this blog would end by the close of 2012.

Why are Christians the only group that continue to pay attention to false prophets?

Weren't they stoned in the Old Testament days?

And by the way, WD WON a lawsuit against the person that he was blogging about.

Idiot false prophet TROLL!

Anonymous said...

Those posts have got to be a joke. Anyone can sue anyone, but it doesn't mean the case has any merit. Also, I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure saying "cease and desist" on an anonymous internet posting does not carry any weight whatsoever.

It reminds me of "The Office" where Michael Scott is told he needs to declare bankruptcy so he goes out into the office and yells "I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!". Oscar had to tell him that it's not how that works.

Ergun Caner by his own words has been shown to be a liar time and time again. His most recent tweets show him to be offensive especially considering the lies about his background. They'll know we're Christians by our love, right?

I honestly can't understand why any self-respecting Christian organization would have anything to do with him. Can someone help me figure out why? Is it because people (for the sake of having this extreme Muslim to Christian convert) just want to believe it's true?

Moses Model said...

Anon 8:42,

"Leave Ergun alone".

I can't. He lies to people I care about. Perhaps you should tell Ergun to leave us alone.

Also, what statements do you consider to be defamation. We are mostly just quoting the guy.

Anonymous said...

"A negative Yelp review could cost one woman close to $1 million."

A negative comment to the local paper cost your pastor a large sum of money and an apology from the pulpit.

Julie Anne said...

If what is being said is the truth or even what the bloggers believe to be the truth (which may in fact be false), the bloggers will always win.

This is US - free speech. Deal with it. Ergun wants to waste time/$$ on a frivolous lawsuit - oh well. More negative publicity for him. And I'll be sure to help the cause.

Moses Model said...

Anon 9:11,

That is great to hear. I do still live in the Lynchburg area. However, I graduated from the seminary with my MDiv.

I can check again, but there was a seminary professor that I was fairly close with that maintained that Ergun never lied. Also, Ankerberg and Lee still maintain that Liberty never found one instance of him lying. He still does speaking engagements with Tony Nolan and Clayton King.

This is a case that I would more than welcome to be out of touch.

Anonymous said...

"LEAVE ERGUN ALONE"

Is the TROLL related to Chris Crocker?

Anonymous said...

@ja

bgbcsurvivors.org seem to have a different side of the story. Is any of what they wrote true? They seem pretty adamant that your friend was the author of the letter to dfacs that caused a lot of problems.

Julie Anne said...

Anon 10:23 - No truth whatsoever. The attorney letter he has on his website has so many inconsistencies that have been already been pointed out. He doesn't show the full document on the DHS letter. There is nothing indicating those words were written by my friend. He shows only part of what he wants you to see and then adds his "story" to it. I've asked him to show the full document and he refuses.

And really - -why did he sue me and 4 others for defamation if the real issue was about sex abuse that he is claiming she reported? (She didn't report him or his son to be sex abuser - none of us believe that he is a sex abuser.)

Why was that not part of the original lawsuit and why is it the primary focus now? It's because he lost and he's trying to divert the issue from the fact that he is a sore loser who recently had the church write out a 37K to my attorney in addition to the earlier $16K+ for his foolish and frivolous lawsuit.

WishIhadknown said...

I do not think any of us wanted Caner fired. I think we just wanted him to set the record straight and keep to the truth. He has a great testimony even if he stuck with the facts.

WishIhadknown said...

“Why are Christians the only group that continue to pay attention to false prophets?”

Actually Christians are not the only ones to pay attention to false prophets that is how all of the cults have started. But Christians should be adamant about the truth, both speaking the truth and in hearing the truth. Christians should welcome and appreciate when correction is given and repent.

Anonymous said...

"Get Saved and Shaved"...really?

It was a JOKE!

Satire is meant to bring hope and laughter not ridicule and shame.

This is totally ridiculious and sad that a grown man has nothing better to do but to comment on other people's tweets....YOU ARE PATHETIC!!!

i am praying for u, i do love you

Anonymous said...

“Dr. Geisler’s response to the charges brought against Dr. Ergun Caner by some Muslims and other groups has hit the mark. The charges on the surface sounds formidable until they are met with TRUTH, then they quickly evaporate away losing all power to condemn – leaving the accusers to contemplate their actions. Dr. Geisler’s responses serve to confirm what I had already known about Dr. Caner’s sincere character and tireless efforts to reach the lost with the gospel and equip Christians to defend the faith in a hostile world. Dr. Geisler and Dr. Caner are the two spiritual warriors I would most like next to me in the trenches doing battle for the cause of Christ.” ---Dr. Joseph Holden, President of Veritas Evangelical Seminary, Murrieta, CA

SO SHUT UP!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

“Dr. Geisler’s response to the charges brought against Dr. Ergun Caner by some Muslims and other groups has hit the mark. The charges on the surface sounds formidable until they are met with TRUTH, then they quickly evaporate away losing all power to condemn – leaving the accusers to contemplate their actions. Dr. Geisler’s responses serve to confirm what I had already known about Dr. Caner’s sincere character and tireless efforts to reach the lost with the gospel and equip Christians to defend the faith in a hostile world. Dr. Geisler and Dr. Caner are the two spiritual warriors I would most like next to me in the trenches doing battle for the cause of Christ.” ---Dr. Joseph Holden, President of Veritas Evangelical Seminary, Murrieta, CA

SO SHUT UP!

February 3, 2013 at 8:54 AM

This would be more believable if it did not come from someone who had monetary/financial ties to Geisler (Living Loud: Defending Your Faith (Truthquest) [Paperback]) who has monetary/financial ties to Caner (Why I Am a Christian: Leading Thinkers Explain Why They Believe [Paperback])

Follow the money and you will see why so many of Caner's defenders defend him so staunchly. He has co-authored books with a lot of his defenders and fills seats with his (paid) speaking engagements.

It is all about the $$$$$$!!

So YOU SHUT UP!!!

Moses Model said...

Anon 8:54

"The charges on the surface sounds formidable until they are met with TRUTH, then they quickly evaporate away losing all power to condemn – leaving the accusers to contemplate their actions."

Dr. Geisler maintains that these statements are not Ergun claiming his father was polygamous.

March 2003
"My mother found out late in her marriage that my father was married to more than one woman. I don’t want anyone else to deal with this."

April 2005
My father had more than one wife at a time. As you know the Quran says in Surah four that you are allowed up to four wives. My father had three.

April 2005
"We got stopped at the border, because my father had listed my mother as property. It’s true. And the guy said, 'Your wife’s not property.' And he said, 'of course she is.' Then he brought his 'sisters' which is his other wives that’s how we bring in our other wives to America. We call them our 'sisters'".

June 2005
"I came over during the Iranian crisis. Ayatollah Khomeini had taken control. The Shaw of Iran had been kicked out. And Ayatollah Khomeini said this, 'We will not stop until America is an Islamic nation.' So in 1978, my father, my mother, my two brothers, my father’s other wives, and my half-brothers and sisters came to this country. How is it that Muslims can come to this country with other wives? Well it is called the Abraham lie. 'This is my sister.' It explains our last names being the same. And so he would say, 'This is my sisters.'"

September 2006
"I was the oldest. My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America. We call it the Abraham lie. They say, 'This is my wife, and this is my sister.'"

June 2007
We got stopped coming to America, I can’t believe I’m telling you this, but I’m gonna. We got stopped coming to America in 1978. My father listed my mother as property on the manifest. Acar Mehmet Caner listed Monica Inez Caner, my mom, as property. And by the way, he came to America like many Muslims do with many wives, but polygamy is not allowed. It’s called the Abraham lie. Who knows what I’m talking about? This is my sister, that’s right. So my father had, he said, ‘This is my wife, Halah, and these are my sisters. It explains the last name.

It is laughable that you consider it truth that none of these statements are Ergun claiming that his father was polygamous.

PS - Ergun Anonymous defenders, welcome to the club.

Anonymous said...

Tim Rogers of SBC Today (A Southern Baptist news organ), declared and defended his claim that Ergun Caner was “exonerated” of the charge against him by citing Merriam-Webster’s definition “to clear from accusation or blame.” He wrote, I used “exoneration” in the post announcing the completed investigation of Dr. Ergun Caner…. If one looks at the definition and then looks at the statement released from Liberty University, one has to admit that exoneration is not a stretch. Why? Notice what the statement says; “the committee found no evidence to suggest that Dr. Caner was not a Muslim who converted to Christianity as a teenager [which was the claim challenged by the critics]….Thus, I used the term “exoneration” because according to the statement released by the committee from Liberty University they cleared him from accusation or blame” (Posted June 29, 2010).

Anonymous said...

"This is totally ridiculious and sad that a grown man has nothing better to do but to comment on other people's tweets..."

Not quite as sad as a TROLL like yourself obsessed with a blog.

So much so, that you prophesied and prayed that it would end last year.

Proving to the entire world that you are nothing but a blow-hard that God ignores.

You might also want to invest in a spell checker.

Anonymous said...

"YOU ARE PATHETIC!!!"
"i am praying for u, i do love you"

You may want to start breaking the Xanax in half.

Anonymous said...

"It was a JOKE!"

YOU are a JOKE!
And a FALSE PROPHET!

Anonymous said...

Ergun Caner is such a liar?

because he is here saying

""If" I ever leave Liberty University":

http://www.kewego.com/video/iLyROoafvyPl.html

"Just put me around Leftest, Liberals, Lesbians, Losers"

and so where is he now?

Anonymous said...

Norman Geisler, John Ankerburg, Paige Patterson, Joseph Holden, Liberty Seminary...the list of Dr. Caner's supporters is extremely impressive.

His detractors?

Some guy who calls himself "Watchdog"?

Who are you going to believe?

Jesus told us in Mark 7:27...It isn't right to take food from the children and throw it to the dogs.

In other words, Jesus said..."Don't feed the dogs."

Anonymous said...

I told you in 2012 that this Blog was dying and it is a proven fact now.

Watchdog is tired of this hatred and bitterness and the Holy Spirit is slowing down this poison.

I pray for you every night sir and I thank God that you are using your talents on something else in life rather than tearing down preachers.

I know 2012 was difficult for you and as you wind down this blog, you will see the windows of heaven open up and pour out a blessing on your life.

God blesses obedience!

Anonymous said...

God has answered my prayers and is slowly dissolving this blog.

I am thankful that Tom has found other hobbies or interests other than tearing down preachers.

Please listen to the Holy Spirit and shut this blog down and honor the Lord with your silence.

I know that 2012 was difficult for you Tom. 2013 will be a better year as you obey the Lord and stop this madness.

He will open the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing on you.

Anonymous said...

"Who are you going to believe?"

Look in the mirror.
Never believe a false prophet.

Anonymous said...

"In other words, Jesus said..."Don't feed the dogs."

Where exactly did he say that?
So, why do you continue to do it?

Your pastor told you not to read this blog. Why are you disobeying him?

Anonymous said...

"I told you in 2012 that this Blog was dying and it is a proven fact now."

Nice try false-prophet TROLL.
You prophesied and prayed that this blog would end by the close of 2012.

That makes you a false prophet and shows that your prayers are ignored by God. Why should we pay attention to you?

In the OT days, you would have been stoned for such blasphemy.

Anonymous said...

"I am thankful that Tom has found other hobbies or interests other than tearing down preachers."

And yet you have found nothing more productive to do with your time than being a TROLL on this blog.

You are a sad individual.

Anonymous said...

"I know that 2012 was difficult for you Tom."

It was a more difficult year for you TROLL. That is the year that you became a false prophet and lost 100% of your credibility and character.

You are a mindless lemming that damages the cause of Christ by supporting sinful behavior.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Norman Geisler, John Ankerburg, Paige Patterson, Joseph Holden, Liberty Seminary...the list of Dr. Caner's supporters is extremely impressive.

His detractors?

Some guy who calls himself "Watchdog"?

Who are you going to believe?

Jesus told us in Mark 7:27...It isn't right to take food from the children and throw it to the dogs.

In other words, Jesus said..."Don't feed the dogs."

February 5, 2013 at 3:57 PM

Once again, point out defenders who DO NOT have financial ties to Caner and then your argument will stand a little stronger. See below (http://babyloniansquirrel.blogspot.com/2010/07/veritas-means.html)

- Norman Geisler is co-founder and provost of Veritas Evangelical Seminary where Ergun Caner is an adjunct professor, and Ergun Caner is often a featured speaker at Dr. Geisler’s Veritas conferences

- John Ankerberg has had Ergun & Emir Caner on his television show repeatedly, and has co-authored at least one book with Emir Caner

- Paige Patterson has long served as a mentor to both Ergun and Emir Caner and has been instrumental in promoting their rise in Baptist circles (more personal, but could impact his earnings if Caner is not strongly defended - think about it!)

- Joseph Holden is co-founder and president of Veritas Evangelical Seminary, where Ergun Caner is an adjunct professor

- Liberty Seminary/University is at the center of all this and will lose more respect if he is not strongly defended

So as you can see, everyone you listed has a lot to lose if Caner is not defended and made to look like he is being targeted.

Lots of money and speaking engagements and student enrollment and the good (?) name of Patterson all stand to be lost if the truth about Caner is covered up.

Who am I going to believe? Some one who does not have financial ties or their name tied to Ergun & Emir in one way or the other.

Anonymous said...

ALERT: Ergun Caner allowed to preach at FBC on 2/17/13? Sham, Sham, Sham...