Below is a post made this morning by a pastor visiting the conference. He made it in the "Welcome" thread from Friday, but I'm posting it here.
"I am a pastor and I have travelled all the way down here from far up North for Pastor's Conference. This is the first PC I have been to since Dr. Vines retired. What a difference a few years make. I see the on the screens - "healthy pastors, healthy churches" and I look around at the half empty auditorium. I keep hearing people say the "economy" has prevented pastors from coming. Well it didn't prevent me. Airfare as cheap and I found a great deal on a hotel and car. It is not the economy, it is the pitiful line up of speakers (except Junior Hill, Johnny Hunt and Jerry Vines) and the junk "premium seminars". Mac says they are examples of expository preaching. I disagree. The speakers may be great expositors who can teach, but they are NOT expositors who can preach. I didn't understand anything Tommy Nelson said last night. I couldn't even understand him when he was reading his text. It is depressing! The choir has spread out to fill the choir loft, whereas before it was packed. And the music is missing something. I can't put my finger on it, but it just isn't the same. This is pitiful. This can't be a healthy church, it must be a dying church. Maybe they need to change the conference motto. This is coming from a pastor, not a "griping church member." I am so disappointed. "
52 comments:
They say a sucker is born every minute, but at FBJax - the going rate is every second.
The time has passed whereby all of you that still attend there are no longer victims but volunteers.
Farewell to our friend Maurilio.
He's at the Jax Airport:
"The Quiznos worker at Jax airport making my sandwich has been looking at a chart trying to figure out what to put in it for the last 10 min "
Thank you, Maurilio, on behalf of the fundamentalist Southern Baptist pastors, for allowing us to sit at your feet, and let you teach us your ways. Your ways of church marketing, and "raising money".
We hope to see you next year!
And we'll continue to follow you on Twitter!
Another Maurilio twitter about fat people:
" getting ready to board for home. Praying for skinny person to sit next to me. "
Get 'em Maurilio.
Be sure to share a verse with the tub of lard that sits next to you:
John 3:16 "For God so loved the non-fat, fit and trim people, that he gave his only begotten Son...."
Dr.Dog the more you blog about Maurilio the more evident it is that this guy is a charlatan....If it not about his clothes,it's his shoes,or his trips,or his home or his Quiznos sandwich or some other wordly thing or endeavor....All this guy seems to be interested in are the trapping of success and the belittling of anyone and everyone who does not measure up too his idea of success...FRAUD-FRAUD-FRAUD...And anyone who follows this CLOWN!!!!!..The Apostle wrote in Colossians 3(v1) "If then you have were raised with Christ,seek those things which are above,where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God.(v2)Set your MIND on things above,not on things on the earth...This guy is a disgrace to the wonderful title of Christian!
If you have any doubt as to what direction this church is going, I hope now after this "conference"(?) you have a real understanding. Prior to this latest blatant failure, people were somewhat unhappy with Brunson, his preaching style, lifestyle and abuses. It now looks very grave for FBCJ. The condition of the church can no longer be hidden. It is a dying church, spiritually. People still attending can only lie to themselves up to a point. I think many now are very concerned. They have avoided the truth to this point, but now the symptoms of a dying church are plain for all to see. I don't think Brunson or Maurilio give a hoot about FBCJ. They are going to ride it as far as they can, and when the money gives out, and there is nothing left, then they will blame the failure on others and move on to the next victim. Congratulations job well done. Will you conduct a postmortem on your church.
I thought Maurilio didn't eat fast food. I am so grateful to Mac for allowing us to pay for this marketing group. And showing us who one of his (Macs) advisors are. We can all relax now. And how great it is to find out how inferior we all are. We stupid sheep have had greatness in our midst and just didn't realize it.
(typing while laughing) Didn't Mac write a book titled "Why Churches Die"? Guess he can show us better than he can tell us. (while laughing all the way to the bank.)
Tell Mac to take his busted game to Wall Street. He'll get plenty of play up there (chaa-ching).
Hey WD - how about changing you blog to Watch Dogpile.
So if Maurilio prays not to sit by any "dreaded" fat people, he's really praying not to sit by Mac...!
just saying...(while surveying the skeletal remains of First Jax).
If Maurilio doesn't want to sit by "fat" people, why doesn't he just buy and fly in on his very own plane? You know like other "corporate CEO's". The ones taking the money and doing nothing. Oh, and do you think he would turn down money if he knew it came from a "fat person"?
To 8:04 Anon: 'cause Maurilio ain't at that level (yet), that's why.
And if he keeps stepping all over his meal-ticket, he won't ever get to that level.
Mac Brunson, Trey and Debbie have turned this once sacred program to a sham of self-imposed eliticism.
This pastor hates the lineup of speakers.
Ok, well first off, no one made him come. He could have seen the lineup ahead of time if he wanted. So this person is without excuse if he is talking about the pitiful lineup of speakers.
Honestly, that's just my personal opinion and not what I really want to ask. Who DOES this guy want to speak? I am not a know it all of Southern Baptist preachers but a lot of the people who were the main speakers are deceased. Lindsay Jr, Falwell, and Rogers are all dead. And if you include Dr. Vines in this list, that's the main 4 speakers who did this pretty much every year. So honestly, who WOULD you want to hear? I am asking this to anyone who wants to answer. No answers like "someone who preaches the word and in love, blah blah blah" we get that enough all of the other posts on here. Specifically, who is out there that people would really want to hear at one of these conferences that is associated with the Southern Baptist Convention?
WOW I'm trying to figure out if you who are replying are grown adults or immature teenagers? Your "fat" responses or so middle school.
Mourilio wrote the 9:00 post. Thanks for checking in, Murilio. The only middle-school content on this blog are the quotes lifted from your twitter.
Great music and great preaching on Tuesday night. Richard Owen Roberts and Junior Hill brought excellent, very moving sermons! Daniel Crews' songs were amazing! I loved every minute of it!
Isn't Quizno's a little... uh... low-end for Maurillo's taste?
" getting ready to board for home. Praying for skinny person to sit next to me. "
So I assume he wouldn't want to sit next to Mac on a plane. Does anyone really think Maurillo didn't fly in first class? Those seats in first class are HUGE...or so I've noticed whenever I've walked past them to get to coach.
For what it's worth, I can't even afford Quizno's anymore.
Oh, and the going rate for a deluxe room at the Omni Jax is $350. Who knows what a "suite with a view" costs? Why does one skinny guy need a whole "suite"?
I'm the PC attendee whose comments were the last blog entry. To the commenter who questioned why I came as the scheduled speakers were announced in advance. I came because I wanted to hear Junior Hill, Johnny Hunt, Jerry Vines and their style of expository preaching. Yes I knew the line up. But I didn't waste my money and time on the premium sessions. I wanted to hear some great music. But while it was good it was still missing something.
I have to say last night redeemed the week for me. Richard Owen Roberts was excellent. Dr. Hill was great as well. It was worth the time I spent here to be here on Tuesday evening. But the rest of the speakers other than the regulars were very weak.
Mac said yesterday he was trying to bring in the "young guns" with the "old guns." I think the problem is that the young guns don't even know how to load the gun let alone fire it. Next year's line up sounds much better. We shall see.
I am getting ready to load my plane and return to the frozen north. There is so much more I would say, but I don't have time.
This again is not from a "griping church member" but a pastor who has been supportive of Mac and FBCJAX and is still disappointed.
To the pastor who wrote the original post, all of that is fine. But in your original post you talked about the pitiful lineup of speakers which is why I questioned why you even came. If you came to hear the people you did I assume you felt like that was enough. As far as the music, IMO it has been missing something for years and this goes back to nearing the end of the Vines years, not just the Brunson era.
You are a pastor yourself and I assume you are in the SBC. Who do you want to see? Seriously. Young Falwell whatever his name is, the guy at Bellevue now, would you be ok if they brought in conservative speakers who aren't "Baptist?" Like I said in my post at 8:50, I am not an SBC follower. I am asking this because again a lot of the main speakers are dead now, and there aren't a lot of others who were just waiting in the wings to replace them. But that could be my lack of knowledge about the entire convention too.
To anyone: Bill Stafford, Sam Cathey, Bailey Smith, John Phillips are excellent evangelists. They are as good as anyone. No one heard of these men until Dr Lindsay and Vines brought them to the church. Anthony George is another good preacher that grew up in the church. The visiting pastor knows what lock and load means. Jr Hill is above most as he has stayed humble. The music is off a little but Rodney has brought his experience to assemble a great choir into Dr Stanleys church. Speaking of Dr Stanley he is probably the best Bible teacher hands down. Why not invite him?
Herb Reavis, Jr. right here in our home town. There are plenty of godly expository preachers in the SBC who can preach the Word of God without apology and conviction. You just have to want to use them, and not the "new wave."
Anon you are right, there are a number of solid, conservative SBC preachers in this town. Another is the preacher at the Westside Baptist Church he is a verse by verse, conservative, expository preacher in the mold of Jerry Vines. Keith Russell is his name.
Can't use any one local...that would be competition for Brunson. Not good business, you understand.
This site is too much. I am a pastor and am amazed that a church who was blessed to have had Dr Jerry Vines for so long would act this way. I have a few obeservations about this site.
1. If I was being looked at to come to FBC Jax I would be very hesitant and would only go kicking and screaming all the way. God would have have to push me there not just call me.
2. Lost people are turned off to the church just because of stuff like this.When church people take all their complaints to the marketplace it destroys the testimony of that church.
3. If I was Dr Brunson I would not respond to any of your complaints as it is more important to be about the business of spreading the Gospel and edifying the saved than it is putting out fires as then Satan will keep starting more fires. On that not however if I was to see you in person I would ask if you wanted some cheese with that whine and tell you to GROW UP. Every complaint I have seen on here is opinion not fact. He yells too much he uses history too much whine whine whine.
4. I know if Dr Vines read your post on him he would be embarassed as you got it wrong he would say he did not do it God did remember Jesus said I would build my church in Matthew 16.
Kevin in Oklahoma
This was my first conference but it makes me chuckle to see this blog conveniently overlook all the people who have been blessed and encouraged by the conference (based on people I met). On a side note, Tuesday night was indeed great. But yes, I realize unbiased, unsarcastic positive news won't be reported (based on what I see on this site) because this blog wouldn't the same without it.
Anon 10:34 - the actions of Mac Brunson himself are what harms the cause of Christ. This site chronicles his abuses...and its not about the yelling and history. Look a little closer.
I didn't say Vines "did it"....I was merely pointing out the truth that what made FBC Jax a great church was consistent bible preaching week after week. God honors the expository, verse by verse, loving, humble preacher who is interested in souls and not self.
Anon 10:42 - glad you were blessed by the conference.
Kevin in Oklahoma: The FACT IS, we, the Church, did not create our current problems. The church is the victim here. Blaming the victims has never been acceptable. We had nothing like this contention in our church with Lindsay and Vines. As a matter of FACT we had over 60 years that this church was led with Gods pastors whose priorities were getting people saved and growing the members in knowledge of Jesus and the bible. Maybe you are looking through "pastor glasses" and do not see the side of a church that had nothing to do with choosing this pastor, but was told who the pastor would be. Just like we had no say-so in the construction of our by-laws etc. We need a pastor interested in people not position. Tuesday was an exception.
Kevin - in regards to your #1 about not wanting to come to Jax. Mac felt the same way. Would a $307K land gift and a year on the ocean on Amelia Island, and putting your wife and son on staff, etc, etc. be enough "God pushing" for you to come?" It was for Mac.
And before Mac, this was a great place for any pastor to come. Whatever has changed is a diret result of Mac's abuses. Moral: Don't ever follow Mac Brunson. Don't blame the FBC Jax congregation, we didn't change. He is the one that has ruined our church while increasing his personal and family wealth and brand. (And Maurilio's)
It had to be surreal for all the long time members to see the auditorium half empty on the final night of the PC. It used to be arrive hours early and hope to find a place in the corner of the balcony. What you saw speaks for itself. Trey and Mac and Maurilio are bush league and can't even milk this Cash Cow for its full offering. They are depleting the funds, buildings, PC, and membership.
You saw it if you were there this week. Sad but true. Trying to maximize revenues backfired on good ole Mac, Trey and Maurilio.
Here's a name for next year's PC speaker's line-up: Calvin Carr. No need to fly him and his wife in first class, no need to put them up at the Omni. And you could see what a relatively young, God called, preacher/pastor looks like.
Kevin in Oklahoma: I responded to you previously, I hope you all will pull through this weather with minimal problems. I will pray for you and indeed your entire state. We are hurricane veterans here and know how devastating weather systems can be.
Watchdog will try sending this again: To those pastors critical of this church: Please understand for over 60 years we did not have the problems we now have. This contention did not exist. The church is not responsible for what is happening to it. We had absolutely NO INPUT as to bringing Brunson here as pastor. We were told who our pastor would be. We are now being TOLD how our church is to be run and by the way smile and pay for it. For over 60 years we had pastors that loved Jesus, and loved His word, and loved the people. I know this is not important to some, but believe it or not this is the "secret" of being a great pastor with a great church. It seems that some of you pastors want to blame the church. The church is the "victim" here. And to blame the victim is never acceptable. As we had NO say-so in the choice of a pastor, we had no say-so in other matters such as the changing of the by-laws, which were never discussed or given to the congregation. We still have no input except in the matter of giving our money to pay for WHATEVER. But there again we are told "angrily" to tithe. So those of you critically looking at this church through "pastor glasses", ask yourself this: What would I do if I were just a member of a church being treated abusively like this?
Calvin Carr....great suggestion. Should have been the pastor to this church after Vines.
In light of the fact that the auditorium was half filled night after night, it is obvious that something went wrong.
1. Would the pastors who have come in the past and did not come this time please tell us why you did not come this time?
2. Would the pastors and staff members who came this time tell us why you came?
3. If you were a TRADITIONAL pastor and did not attend, what was the distraction for you, and if you came were you pleased with what you saw and heard?
4. If you are a Seeker Sensitive, Purpose Driven, Pragmatic, Community Church pastor who came to the Pastors Conference, were you comfortable coming to FBCJ?
With all of the money being spent on attracting pastors and staff to the PC we are obviously doing something wrong. Our church should be full. What went wrong?
Could it be that some think that we are no longer a TRADITIONAL church and that we have become a Seeker Friendly, Purpose Driven, Pragmatic, Community type church?
Could this be the reason why few came this year?
Hey! Church members didn't even come.
"Trey and Mac and Maurilio are bush league and can't even milk this Cash Cow for its full offering."
MAAAANN, I wish I said that! Nice work, brutha. said it better than me.
Was Trey called to the platform for a congratulatory salute by Mac again this year? Did they announce the sum "revenues" brought in by Trey and the two advertising companies who managed the conference?
Just wondering about last year versus this year!
I don't like the bylaw changes either, but it's not only Mac's fault. It's the fault of every single church member who voted for it without doing their due diligence and reading it in the library.
ORIGINAL PASTOR/POSTER HERE:
ANON 3:01 PM ASKED - "Could it be that some think that we are no longer a TRADITIONAL church and that we have become a Seeker Friendly, Purpose Driven, Pragmatic, Community type church?"
MY RESPONSE - Bingo! The line up of speakers reminded me of a watered down Founders Conference at Moody Bible Institute. And I came anyway hoping I was wrong. Unfortunately, I was right.
My advice, as a pastor, to Pastor Brunson would be to fire Maurillo immediately, go back to the SBC roots of the conference and let the "young guns" target practice somewhere else. And stop placing a price tag on everything and make the PC a ministry to pastors again.
I thought it was ironic that on the second floor up by the media sales a huge banner quoted Isaiah 56:7 - "My house shall be called a house of prayer." But after walking though all the expensive displays they should have changed it to Christ's quote in Mark 11:17 that says, " Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves."
Why not invite Pastor Steve Wagers from Gardenview Baptist Church on the Northside of Jax. He's a "young gun" who preaches like an "old gun" who can preach circles around any one of the boys.
I'm so sick of the politics in the SBC. Let's get away from 'I'll let u preach for me if u let me preach for u' syndrome. Why not call on some boys to preach who have paid their dues and have the touch of God upon their lives, and preaching.
More about Marillio's twitter:
12:06 PM Feb 10th from TweetDeck
Ready to teach: "raising money in difficult times."
Just wonder who and what circumstances he is referring.
"raising money" (not church growth).
ORIGINAL PASTOR/ POSTER HERE; Anon 4:39
BINGO
You guessed it pastor, we look more like a Seeker Friendly, Purpose Driven, Pragmatic, Community church. Since Mac came here most everything has changed. He obviously looked around and said Maurilio, there is not much that I like about this old church, LET'S CHANGE IT. And they have been hard at it every since.
I agree with you, we should "make the PC a ministry to pastors again". What was the reason for the change in the first place? Was it just for change or was it to make money?
Sorry that you had to come here to see it for yourself; we have been trying to tell pastors and readers that this was happening. The word is getting out. This BLOGG has seen many posts and over 100,000 visits since last summer. Watchdog has been very watchful to the many CHANGES AND ABUSES OF MAC BRUNSON.
IT IS A SAD DAY HERE AT FBCJ.
THANKS FOR YOUR POST.
Anon 2-ll, 4:33PM
The by-law changes were done on a Wed., night with very few present. I doubt there was a legal quorum representative of the entire church. Not only that, it was a 1,2,3, go, scenario. There was NO OPPORTUNITY for discussion. It's Mac's way or the highway.
Wish we could have a senate hearing on CEO abusive pastors. But, I think that is called, The Judgement Seat of Christ. There we won't have to worry about separation of church and state.
8:44- Under Robert's Rules of Order, you have a right to debate motions and the church can't stop you unless it votes to close debate and put the question.
9:12,
No disrespect intended but...get a clue...mega church setting...no microphone on the floor...so no one could hear anything said from the floor anyway...the whole business meeting setting is not geared for folks to respond...it's merely a formality.
Kevin - in regards to your #1 about not wanting to come to Jax. Mac felt the same way. Would a $307K land gift and a year on the ocean on Amelia Island, and putting your wife and son on staff, etc, etc. be enough "God pushing" for you to come?" It was for Mac.
And before Mac, this was a great place for any pastor to come. Whatever has changed is a diret result of Mac's abuses. Moral: Don't ever follow Mac Brunson. Don't blame the FBC Jax congregation, we didn't change. He is the one that has ruined our church while increasing his personal and family wealth and brand. (And Maurilio's)
Have you all thought that the best thing to do for your pastor is to pray for him that God will change him or move him if he is that bad? Plus remember this if you want another church to take him off your hands your going about it the wrong way. Your scare people away from him.
No the money nor land would be a push in my book. I have never negoitated salary before being called to a church. I have accepted a church before I knew the pay on two differnt occasions becayse I feel if God calls me there He will provide for me and my wife and son. He has never let us down.
To the one praying for us and our state thankyou the tornado came withtin three miles of my uncles. We are in the sticks all is well here
10:17- If you can't be heard, get someone else to raise a point of privilege about it.
Roberts Rules of Order...you must be joking. Its one two three and in less than 15 seconds the chairman of the deacons calls the motion approved!!!That simple. Maybe they use Roberts in your church but not here. If you did raise a question you would be escorted out for being divisive and causing a disturbance!!!
Are you going to post that email that someone said they had written to some of the "privileged" members who were invited to the Next Gen presentation.
Anon 2/11, 6.04am
Dear pastors conference attendee from the north! So sorry you spent your time, money, and enegry to attend this conference. We should probably give you a refund! You are right, the preachers were not up to par with the exception of the ones you mentioned, and yes the music was not up to par! No heart, no mentioned of Jesus or the plan of salvation as we used to do.
Perhaps you should attend Johnny Hunts conference.
Again our apologies.
FBC does use Robert's Rules.
I happen to know that many at First Dallas were quietly praying he would simply leave. The anger and brow-beating got to be too much. And when he did leave not too many were dissappointed. I would agree that Mac's options are somewhat limited from here. Look for him to take some executive position within the convention in the next year or two.
FBCJ should do a little more checking next time prior to calling someone.
Post a Comment