A lawsuit against Mac Brunson and FBC Jax has been filed today in Duval County Circuit Court. The lawsuit alleges defamation, fraud, misrepresentation, and abuse of process by Brunson and the church administration for actions taken last year leading to a criminal investigation under false pretenses, and then the resulting statements made to the media.
The following is my official statement regarding this lawsuit:
"First Baptist Church, its chairman of the trustees A.C. Soud, and Senior Pastor Mac Brunson have made it clear through their words and actions, that they will 'aggressively confront' what they deem 'unjust criticism' of their church leadership. Unfortunately, as part of that 'aggressive confrontation', they may have used our legal system and local law enforcement to investigate me under false pretenses and to find my identity by obtaining subpoena's of private and confidential information.
Then when they found my identity, they never once contacted me according to scripture and their church teachings, but had trespass warnings delivered to me and my wife and placed on file with the local law enforcement agency, effectively banning our family from our church home of many years. Both Mr. Soud and Mr. Brunson then lied about me and attempted to defame me not only within the halls of the church, but also to local media covering the story and on their website.
Their actions sent a powerful message to me, and all other members of FBC Jax, that they were willing to use any hardball tactics necessary to confront any criticism. This lawsuit, I believe, is the appropriate means at this time by which to respond to their tactics. I desire through this lawsuit that an equally powerful message will be sent to influential church trustees and powerful pastors who seek to squelch dissent of their members through unbiblical bullying and intimidation tactics.
Of particular concern to me and my wife is the manner in which Mac Brunson has chosen to use his leadership position and influence granted to him by the good people of FBC Jacksonville, a Southern Baptist Convention mega-church, to get rid of us and to discredit me in retaliation for my persistent, public criticisms of his leadership.
Simply put, FBC Jax and Mac Brunson used the law enforcement system last fall to find my identity and ban me and my wife from the church property. We are now using that same legal system to try and find the truth of what they did and more importantly, why they did it, and then to ask a jury to hold those parties accountable for any wrongful actions."
77 comments:
GO DOG GO!!!! Love you bro AND SHUT ER DOWN!
Kiss my rear Mac!
Good for you Sir. I was hoping that you would get after FBCJax along with JSO and the SAO. They have all broken the law under cover of their authority and been arrogant in the process. It is sort of like how the usurper in the White House conducts himself in showing utter contempt for the citizens. Nothing makes me madder than for someone to think I am too stupid to see what they are doing. May they all be held legally accountable for their actions soon...
I pray for this legal process to continue and Watchdog be vindicated in the courts. But I am doubtful about the jury pool if drawn from Jax, how objective they can be going against a venerable though tarnished institution as Fbc Jax.
But I honestly doubt anything will change at Fbc Jax. Clearly SBC rewards bullying pastors, and now elevating Mac to possible SBC President (?). Even if Watchdog wins this court case, SBC as usual and possibly all current Fbc Jax members will disregard what was said or decided in the courts.
I pray for more opening of people's eyes.
Wow! That's no small task brother. So, you are seeking monetary damages due to defamation of character?
They are going to laugh you out of the courtroom. Mac should be filing the suit against you for the things you have said about him. The fact that you blogged anonymously and then lied about it being you will pretty well negate any case you might think you have.
There will be plenty of us praying that you get your just reward.
WD,
I too pray that you too will get your "just reward". It's been a long time coming. I admire your patience and courage.
The truth will win out in the end.
So...... you are now suing your Ex-Church and their members for your "defamation" and "slander". I completely disagree with you and this entire blog, but you are entitled to file a lawsuit against an individual like Brunson. But to sue the Church? And now whether a judgement is reached against the Church or they settle out of court, you are taking the funds which people tithed for the Church. Does that make you happy? Is that honoring God or your fellow brothers and sisters? Besides being completely UnBiblical (Read 1 Cor 6), you are doing a disservice to the Kingdom of God. And don't bore me with the "What about what he did / the Church did" blah blah blah. Bottomline, two wrongs don't make a right and you are not building the Kingdom but tearing it down. I hope you are proud.
Scott - there are two counts in the lawsuit.
Defamation against Brunson
Fraud, mispresentation, and abuse of process against the church.
Two separate counts.
I'll comment later on your other points.
Being a "Former",
I too am proud of you.
"you are taking the funds which people tithed for the Church"...
Shame on them. Those funds aren't spent in ways they are told they are spent anyway.
Finally, a worthy cause.
They need to stop funding and leave.
And the walls came tumbling down!
"you are taking the funds which people tithed for the Church"...
That sounds alot like what Tom has been saying about Maurilio, nepotism, luxury office suites, trips down the Danube, etc. Now all the sudden some people will get concerned about someone (Tom) "taking the funds which people tithed." Glad you are now concerned about who is taking those funds. A little late don't you think?
Let's see. Approximately 750,000 to 1 million people to draw a six panel jury from. And automatically any friends or even people who know Soud or Brunson or their families will be peremptorily challenged and removed from the jury. Then any current members will also be removed. That leaves just former members (ie: disgruntled ones) and/or people who don't even know who Soud and Brunson are, and/or people who don't like FBC Jax to begin with, left to fill that jury box. Non Kool-Aid drinkers for sure will be making this final decision. Should be fun to watch! I don't think the rank and file of Jax like being yelled at by a pompous ass. They will do what they have wanted to do for a long, long time. Stick it to the arrogant, judgmental leaders of FBC Jax. Go Dog Go! Run Dog Run! See Dog Run!
Praise God. Thank you, Mr. Rich for standing in the gap for all of us. There was no other way to hold these men accountable except for through the same legal system they used against you. Will be praying for you and your wife.
And thanks to your attorney for using his talents and gifts to help make a difference in the world.
Dog - see if you can get a trial date set during the middle of that scheduled Danube River cruise.
Watchdog,
Good for you and your lawsuit. May you find the vindication you deserve. I will be praying for this, as I'm sure many others here will be. And a question for "Scott from Texas": So you're concerned about money the tithers gave to the church being misused, huh? So why aren't your comments directed to the powers that be at that church for the way they disburse "God's money" for lavish living by the pastor? Or for letting repairs go so they can start an unneeded school? Or for confiscating space meant for children's ministries to build an unneeded office for the already over-compensated pastor? You didn't comment on that, did you? There is nothing un-Biblical about pointing out very questionable actions by church authorities. Why didn't you ask the church leaders why they did all that? But all you have to say is how wrong Watchdog is for suing people who have besmirched his name. Very Christian behavior on their part, wasn't it? So Scott, if you're going to scold people, at least be fair about it. People don't get a pass for their actions just because they're a pastor, or a trustee; on the contrary, they deserve more scrutiny.
God bless you Watchdog.
D
In concluding about Martin Luther's quest for reform, he fell into conceit and lambasted Jews and their synagogues. Four hundred years later it would be twisted to justify genocide. Beware the yeastful seeds YOU lay down. The lawyers are playing all like a fiddle
Didn’t take the Florida Times Union long to pick up on it:
Jacksonville Church Blogger Sues First Baptist
I had a hunch that you and your attorney would go this direction. It will be interesting to see what happens now.
If you prevail in court, what will you do?
If you lose in court will you appeal the verdict?
It could be a jury trial or just before a judge. Obviously a jury trial is the most costly.
If your attorney is like most other lawyers a settlement is their desire since jury trials are very costly and everyone, including Brunson and company can have a bad day with their name on it.
Tom, Christians suing Christians, no matter what the justification, is why I chose to be involved in that type of law. My choice, although not yours and your attorneys.
I will sit back and patiently see what transpires from all this. Of course there will be the Brunson supporters that will howl all the reasons you should not sue and then there will be all of your supporters that will gleefully side with you.
I for one will side for truth and justice. Both for the Laws of God and the Laws of man, that God instituted, in a court of law.
However, if you win, I will not leave FBCJ nor will I rant and rave for Brunson's head on a silver platter the way most anti Brunson folks want either. If Brunson wins I for one will not seek retribution against you and your supporters either.
That is what the law is about and at the end of the day, I support the Scriptures and the U.S. Constitution.
I do support your right under man's law to seek justice and fully supported your suit against the JSO and the SA, but I guess that was not taking you where you wished to go. I would even support your right to sue the non-profit corporation of FBCJ since I strongly beleive that Scripture does not prohibit that.
However, suing a Christian brother directly, whether or not you believe he or she is truly saved, in clear violation of the Word, I cannot support even though you have the right under man's laws to do so.
Therefore, I will pray for all parties and see what shakes out. And just like the O.J. trial, support the verdict whether I agree or not.
God bless you. God bless Mac Brunson. God bless FBCJ and God bless America for the finest legal system in human history.
Sincerely,
T
Banned Blogger Sues Megachurch and Pastor
What seems very clear is that both parties probably could have acted/reacted to each other much better than they did. Of all people, though, the senior pastor of FBCJax certainly knows better than to have done what is reported at this site, assuming it all is true; and, that he permitted fellow staff members (subordinates) to act as reported also does not speak well for him.
I will appreciate the truth being learned as a result of this lawsuit, whatever the truth is. Anyone reading here should be reminded: we do not set the rules for our interactions--God does. When we fail to abide by His desires for us, things go horribly wrong and people are hurt needlessly.
I applaud your efforts, Watchdog, and will pray for both God's will in this matter, and for your and your family's safety as this makes its way through the courts. I don't think that Brunson or his subalterns will attack you directly in a physical manner--that would be incredibly stupid on their part--but someone frustrated with you and your lawsuit might. So, take reasonable precautions for your safety, please.
Media Coverage:
Jacksonville News > Jacksonville church blogger sues First Baptist.
First Coast News > Banned Blogger Sues Megachurch and Pastor.
News4Jax > Blogger Files Suit Against Former Church.
"Having made every effort to settle this matter biblically, the Church stands ready to have the matter addressed according to law, though this is not, and never has been our desire".
Wow! Only in their own minds! It is sad to note that Church Leadership is convinced it acted biblically. I know they did not. But if this is Christianity or being biblical, then this church will lose lot of its members. Once their eyes are open. That is provided they overcome the church leadership ban on learning about watchdog either through the media coverage or watchdog's blog.
In some ways, I am saddened that this case is being brought against the church. But it appears the focus of the suit is against the leadership for their actions against Watchdog.
Clearly, this is a first step of many first steps. We have to see how these cases unfold.
Is a little bit of money going to make you feel better about embarrassing yourself and your family. No matter if you win or lose you can never go back to the days where you could secretly talk about someone behind their back, while smiling in their face.
If you do win I hope you think of all the people that you have hurt in the process, all of the relationships you have severed for your wife and daughter, and all of the testimonies you are attempting to break down, while you spend the money trying to buy your way into another church.
I hope that you stop listening to all of those anonymous blogger that are encouraging you to further degrade yourself and your family, and drop this silly lawsuit. I would suggest that you pray about your situation.
You religious folks are a hoot! Turn this into a reality show on Fox and you guys could make a mint!
Who wins isn't the most important issue that will come from this.
Mac may go on to be the next SBC President...who cares...the SBC is a corrupt organization of yesterday,anyway.
Even if only a few dozen more people see this bogus bunch for who they really are...good!
MAYBE when the next person dares to point out issues with the loud Big Mac....he won't be so quick to misuse the legal system or declare publically that another man is a sociopath and Obsessive Compulsive. That was really some low class behavior even for Mac!
I'd say Mac should stick to preaching and leave Psychology to those educated in the subject but I haven't heard a real sermon from the man! Just a bunch of screaming, tearing people down, and lifting himself up.
Go Dog GO!!!!!!
The Church's statement in response to this is a bald faced lie. They never went to Mr. Rich in accordance with Matthew 18. They used the JSO under false pretenses to obtain subpoenas, they issued trespass warnings, they declined to allow Mr. Rich to bring representation to their kangaroo court of a discipline committee and they refused to allow him to speak uninterrupted at a deacon's meeting he had agreed to attend. I DEFY ANYONE TO SHOW US HOW ANY OF THAT IS "BIBILICAL!"
So either they are delusional or liars. How stupid do they think their members are? Or how gullible? About $15 million dollars per year worth of gullibility and stupidity it appears. And wasn't Mac asking for even MORE money on Wednesday night? Shame Shame Shame.
After all the hyperbole and hysterics die down you will realize that the judge will probably throw the suit out on grounds that they have no business meddling in the affairs of a church.
If it does proceed, I can't wait to see how you will answer when they question you about things you have said about Mac and things you have done to tear the church apart. I doubt seriously if you will even take the stand because then you would have to testify under oath.
All of the above is relevant but what is most relevant is that the Word of God says you are not to do what you are doing. It doesn't matter what you think Mac and the church may or may not have done, you are prohibited from doing what you are doing.
But then, the Word of God hasn't been followed by any of you throughout this whole pathetic situation.
I do remember a verse that tells us that we are to do everything for the glory of God and that includes this blog and all the dealings that are escalating. Think about what the Word says and not what hysterical posters are encouraging you to do.
"Having made every effort to settle this matter biblically, the Church stands ready to have the matter addressed according to law, though this is not, and never has been our desire".
This is a big problem. The 'Church' is not only perpetuating a lie but teaching unbelievers false doctrine...on purpose.
They actually made every effort to settle it unbiblically. Mac has lost an opportunity to show the world true repentance and humility of a true follower of Christ using his celebrity status as a mega church pastor. He has the attention of millions to make a statement and he uses it to promote a lie and false doctrine to make him look good.
Run, folks. Get out of these temples of profit masquerading as the Body of Christ.
Matt
I imagine that the trial court judge will refer this case back to juvenile court where it belongs.
"I imagine that the trial court judge will refer this case back to juvenile court where it belongs."
July 24, 2009 7:28 AM
"Mac has...lost it..."
The leaders of nonprofit organizations such as churches are legally responsible for managing/directing those organizations in keeping with the organizations' bylaws on file with their states and resulting in their tax-exempt status. A trial judge will want to know whether or not FBCJax's leaders--paid or volunteer--dealt with this matter in keeping with that congregation's bylaws. I wouldn't be so quick to say that a judge will set aside the matter without giving any consideration to the circumstances, as tax-exemption is involved in that sense. If the judge assigned is familiar with how churches are to operate, he/she probably will be surprised to learn that it appears the senior pastor and others acted contrary to Scripture--though the WD had a legal right to criticize as he has--and that judge will want to check the bylaws to find out whether or not they are in keeping with the Bible.
Interesting situation . . . The entire matter may be thrown out, but it does not seem that the church's leadership will come out looking good/effective/godly--and, if I were a member of that church now, I really would have to wonder seriously about the personnel my tithes were helping to support. I would be seeking a private conversation with my pastor and, if he refused to grant it, I would make a large issue of it until he did; that only is right according to the Bible.
It does not seem too late for all past-due apologies to be offered--and, for Christians, it is not too late to accept them. Any mature believer there want to go first? Anyone, anyone?
God help us all.
(P.S. Other congregations receiving resumes from current FBCJax ministry staff members: beware, and make a point to inquire in depth of them about how they understand conflict resolution is to take place in the Body of Christ--else this matter can be multiplied across the SBC in years to come. There appears no reason to believe, based upon the WD's reports at this site, that any present ministry staff member has disagreed with the approach his leaders have taken in these circumstances--and, at the least, it does not seem as if any of them have been courageous/loving enough to say, "Enough is enough, people!")
Tom,
Is it true that FBC Jax and/or Mac Brunson have contacted your new church in an effort to get them to sanction you there also ? I heard this on News Talk Radio.
Other congregations receiving resumes from current FBCJax ministry staff members: beware, and make a point to inquire in depth of them about how they understand conflict resolution is to take place in the Body of Christ--else this matter can be multiplied across the SBC in years to come.
It's too late!.
This is the MO throughout SBC, since CR (Conservative Resurgence) took place, for the past 30 years. Checkout the following:
New BBC Open Forum.
Hardball Religion - Feeling the Fury of Fundamentalism.
Stop Baptist Predators.
Grace and Truth to You.
let's stop pastor darrell gilyard together.
This Little Light.
I agree that if the church had merely disciplined Mr. Rich in accordance with scripture and their bylaws, there would be no lawsuits. Of course, they didn't do this, not even close, and now they will be held accountable.
The more FBC says publicly, the more they dig themselves deeper into a hole. Their own words will be used against them to expose them as liars and deceivers and manipulators.
And we don't know the half of it yet! Wait until they start deposing children's workers who received photos of Mr. and Mrs. Rich telling them to look out for them. Wait until they depose a hundred deacons to find out what was said about Mr. Rich in a meeting before they passed the resolution, wait until those deacons and their wives start telling of conversations that have attacked Mr. Rich. Imagine if Mac and Soud arrogantly called Tom names publicly in the newspaper, how much more these guys have said privately to other leaders and members and friends. All of this, or enough of it, will come out in depositions of members, deacons and staff who are under oath and subject to penalties for perjury. Will ALL of them toe the party line? Of course not. Discovery is just beginning and my guess is we will be shocked at the garbage that is uncovered.
Mac knows this. He already tried to show some remorse with his "I'm not infallible, I make mistakes" pseudo-apology at the end of his sermon. The Jaguars players should use that excuse next time they get busted.
No, the church leadership is going to be exposed for what it is. And the membership will be stronger in the long run. God is working to remove these hypocritical money-changers and influence peddlers from the church. It will be painful, but God will see us through.
W O W
All Kool Aid Cup Fillers should be praying thankfully that others m) did not do the same thing as Tom did and file a Lawsuit against other hateful men.
I hope that ALL within Church leadership and Conventions (State and National) see the damages and repercussions for throwing someone out of any church publicly and not dealing with them privately - as I personally believe it is written!
It is wrong and may be dealt with in ways no one expects!
Man with the Baptist Mafia have interpreted this biblical teaching incorrectly and are reaping something they wished they had not sowed!
W O W
All Kool Aid Cup Fillers should be praying thankfully that others m) did not do the same thing as Tom did and file a Lawsuit against other hateful men.
I hope that ALL within Church leadership and Conventions (State and National) see the damages and repercussions for throwing someone out of any church publicly and not dealing with them privately - as I personally believe it is written!
It is wrong and may be dealt with in ways no one expects!
Many within the Baptist Mafia have interpreted this biblical teaching incorrectly and are reaping something they wished they had not sowed!
And wasn't Mac asking for even MORE money on Wednesday night?
Yes, he was. Listen!
You know it is very sad when a preacher cannot take critisism and takes action to remove someone from a church. My family has been members of FBCJ for 25 years. I was all of 4 when we joined. Of course this was in the time of Homer Jr. At the time we joined my father was dying from cancer. Mr.Barton visited him everyday and prayed with him. We honestly believe god performed a miracle for us as my father recovered. All this said, we also had issues with the church. My sister, in her senior year of high school was wrongfully accused of skipping a service and was forbidden to go on tour. My parents appealed to Dr.Lindsey and Dr.Vines which got us no where. We did have several meetings with the pastors(to which I was present even as a child). The pastors did listen to us and were willing to admit that Rev.Carr was incorrect in blocking my sister's attendance. However, it was too late. Since Rev.Brunson has taken over, we have not attended one single service. I will not attend while a hipocritical, phalistic megalomaniac is at the helm. I am still mourning the death of Christ being the reason for this church. It appears to be more in the business of making a profit than saving souls. I am honestly embarrassed to admit that I am or ever was a member. At this time all i can say is, May god have mercy when judgment day comes. Tom, my prayers are with you in this. If what I was taught in sunday school is right, rightousness will always prevail!!
You are making Satan VERY happy.
Check out the comments to the news clips and articles. Here is one that reflects the objective viewers thoughts:
"I spent about an hour looking over this man's blog. I think what he was doing was legitimate. He had some serious questions about not only his church but other problems going on within the SBC. He was simply trying to get people to think for themselves and question what was going on around them. That, in my opinion is a very healthy point of view. Too many people follow their pastor's, no matter what, with their eyes shut. I was a member of Trinity Baptist for many years. I wish someone had opened my eyes to the fact I was admiring a gentleman and telling others about this great church that was pandering to a freakin' CHILD MOLESTER. I loved Brother Messer and HE KNEW. I wish someone had opened my eyes. I've since decided there is no higher power above watching over us. If there is a higher being, he's probably sitting back, smoking a pipe and reading Harry Potter - laughing himself silly over our foolishness. At least read what this man had to say before you judge him and tell him he should have just "found another church". He is not so brainwashed as to not ask questions - looking out for those who follow blindly. And no - I don't know this guy and only just looked into all of this.
Oh and BTW - I don't think this suit is about money at all. One should be able to question these folks without fear of scare tactics and harm to himself or his family. For him to say "Hey folks - open your eyes to what's going on here!!" and have a sledgehammer come down on him is NOT the American way. No one should have so much power in this great country. I commend him for not cowering to their bullying. I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing if I was "questioning authority" to find myself the victim of someone stronger than me. At least he's persuing this legally. Isn't that the right way?? Is this not the American way - to stand up for what you believe in?"
Anon 10:32AM ....
I beg to disagree. Brunson and his henchmen are making Satan VERY happy, and God has called on Watchdog to put a stop to it.
Take another sip.
I agree. Satan is VERY happy about all that Mac Brunson, Maurilio and Soud have done in just over 3 years to tarnish and tear down decades of God honoring work from FBC Jax. Satan used to have to deal with FBC Jax, now the church has lost its saltiness and according to da book...is useless.
Yes, Satan is very very happy to hear history lessons and see promotions for Danube River cruises. And he really loves "aggressive confrontation" of the sheep.
"No one should have so much power in this great country. I commend him for not cowering to their bullying."
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN and AMEN AGAIN!
gmommy:
The SBC is a corrupt organization?
Really?
There are 40,000 church and 16 million members of the churches of the SBC?
The SBC has 6 seminaries, Lifeway, the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, the IMB, the NAMB, and a host of other smaller entities, and people who work for these.
All of this is corrupt?
Upon reflection, do you want to qualifty that statement a bit?
Louis
I have seen this kind of thing before. I usually does not have a good ending for anybody, like many lawsuits.
I have no idea what a court will do with this, and I don't think anyone on here speculating knows either.
I read the pleadings in the federal lawsuit against Hinson, SAO and JSO. Their motions to dismiss look fairly strong, but you never can tell what facts might pop up.
I haven't read this lawsuit.
My experience and research with church lawsuits like this isn't vast. In our state, the courts absolutely hate getting into analyzing church bylaws, scripture and all that. They usually rule that those are church matters that are not subject to court review.
Mac and Mrs. Mac's claims about mail and stalking will probably be hard to rebut. That something logically that I have been stumbling over. Any facts that they give cannot be rebutted. It's hard to prove a negative. At any rate, we'll have to see how that turns out.
On the defamation claim, Mac has no one but himself to blame. That was a self-inflicted wound.
Mac is no pychiatrist or psychologist, so "Sociopath" and "Obsessive-Compulsive" should be construed as used in a lay context. "Unstable" is clearly an opinion. At any rate, Florida law will determine whether those are actionable. There are no questions of fact that those things were said. The only question will be whether they are defamatory under Florida law, and the extent to which the Dog has been damaged, if at all, by Mac making those statements to the press.
But, as I always say, don't get too invested in a lawsuit when you are not a party or an attorney handling the suit.
Louis
Louis to the rescue of the SBC's good name. As usual.
Ad hominem . Hum?
Louis
William Shakespeare once said, "The devil hath power to assume a pleasing shape."
And you have just proven that the devil can assume the body of a Christian in wolf's clothing.
I'm not too concerned what will happen in the courtroom. I'm more concerned for you when you stand before the Heavenly judge.
You are doing a HUGE disservice to the Body of Christ. But, this is how Satan works I guess.
The harm has been done by the pastor and other leaders of the church, not by the WD. Had they acted biblically, had they been open to questions and answering them, had they lived up to the mandates of the bible in terms of their own lives, there would have been no harm. In fact, the whole thing started with greed and a lifestyle that is unworthy of a Christian minister.
"The SBC has 6 seminaries, Lifeway, the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, the IMB, the NAMB, and a host of other smaller entities, and people who work for these."
Louis and I probably have a different definition of what constitutes sin and specifically, corruption. But if the leadership is "corrupt" then the organization becomes corrupt systematically because what is modeled at the top becomes the norm.
SBTS: Laying off Dads whose wives do not work (as taught by SBTS) leaving families with no income, unemployment or health insurance. All the while, spending 9 million on a campus face lift and none of the leadership taking cuts in pay. The Book of Reports says a full professor at SBTS makes 93,000. So, one can imagine what Mohler and Moore make but no cuts? Where is the leadership example?
They both have seperate streams of income like book royalities and speaking engagements and even a ministry job for Moore at Highview while being Dean at SBTS.
(We can even go back to the Firing of Paul Debusman to take a look at corruption)
SWBTS: Patterson. Klouda. Taxidermy bills paid by SEBTS, pastry chefs. extravagence at Pecan Manor. And more and more. Patterson has a rap sheet a mile long of corruption going back to the 80's.
ERLC: A boondoggle created to fight the culture war in DC. Is it corrupt? The concept for it is corrupt when thinking biblically. How many millions have we spent only to see Obama as President and Nancy Pelosi as Speaker? The point is, the culture war does not work.
IMB: Corrupt Trustees. See Wade's Blog
NAMB: Bob Reccord. See Mary Kenney's Book, Spending God's Money. Keep in mind that many current leaders of the SBC signed a letter of support for Bob Reccord AFTER all the corruption came out.
Lifeway: Spending tons on silly research projects, selling Rob Bell and Joel Osteen and many other apostate authors. Seeking to make big profits by merchandising Jesus trinkets.
The corruption of the SBC is systematic. We are so corrupt, we think our corruption is normal. And I just hit some highlights.
The people who work in these entitites dare NOT disagree with anything or they are out of a job.
The short tenure of SBC president has little effect on the systematic corruption. And one can see it is certainly not going to change when one sees WHO was selected for the GCR committee. Same old system. More institutionalized corruption trying to save a dying organization.
Anyone who would financially support such a system is nuts.
You are doing a HUGE disservice to the Body of Christ. But, this is how Satan works I guess.
July 24, 2009 9:48 PM
The way your leaders mishandled dissent is a big wake up call for you that you are NOT in the Body of Christ at FBC Jax. I beg you to get out.
Please study on your own. You have not been taught scripture well if you think Mac has handled any of this biblically.
http://www.prophezei.com/?p=656
Example of the silly waste of time, money and resources at Lifeway.
Study(read and learn scriptures all of them) to show thyself a worker that needeth not to be ashamed. One cannot wait till they enter Heaven and then claim either they did not have time or they depended on the pastor to teach them. Its up to each of us individually.
It is really beyond comprehension that people can say Tom is doing a disservice to Christianity and Christian witness.
If you are a believer you should want to know the TRUTH!
If the leadership lied and made up a tall tale just so they could find out who the Watchdog was you are telling me you don't want to know they lied?
You'd rather sit blindly following liars (if it's proven true, though we do know we were lied to about some of our previous staff being "called" elsewhere when they were actually fired) than get to the bottom the story and KNOW whether they lied.
If you don't want to know if they lied then what does that say about you?
WD turns over a rock, and all these church supporters blame HIM for the creepy crawlies they see under it.
WD turns over a rock, and all these church supporters blame HIM for the creepy crawlies they see under it.
July 25, 2009 12:51 PM
YOu have hit the nail on the head. But this is quite typical and we see this type of reasoning in many areas of life. Obama voters will stand by their man out of pride no matter what he does.
Same with Mac. Who wants to admit they had no discernment or wisdom or was so biblically ignorant?
Some have been convicted and have left. Like Former FBC Insider. The cost is too high and we will give an account for the lies we believe. The Holy Spirit is in dwelling so we have no excuse when this is public behavior and bad teaching UNLESS the Holy Spirit is NOT indwelling. Then the problem is even bigger.
Thomas Rich:
It is indeed sad that your pride is driving you to attempt to belittle Dr. Brunson and mislead others about the FBC ministry. Isn't it ironic you are actually the one guilty of trying to bully to have your way, not Dr. Brunson or FBC.
I read your past excuses of why you anonymously blogged, but like so many other readers don't buy it. Plain and simple, you were afraid to post your name, choosing to bash FBC and its leaders when they stood up to you.
You complain the pastor is overpaid. You don't like his office. You don't think he should have a nice home. You don't think he should be involved in the SBC. You also assert the South campus and schools are a "waste". Like so many others, I'm still waiting for you to objectively recognize the positives that Dr. Brunson and FBC enact for the Lord.
Thomas Rich...that is your name...you are a hypocritical coward. You're getting your attention now and you will have to stand up like a man, in front of others, and substantiate your false claims in court, of all places. You will lose, and rightfully so.
Thankfully, there is forgiveness and you will be forgiven by the same spiritual people you are attacking.
I am thankful there is justice and you were exposed. You are trying to destroy what you cannot control; the Lord is obviously protecting and guiding His leaders and FBC!
-Allen
"Thankfully, there is forgiveness and you will be forgiven by the same spiritual people you are attacking."
You mean after stealth subpeonas and trespass warnings and the resolution? These are the folks who are forgiving?
You are joking, right?
Poor Allen, another blind kool aid drinker. Just keep giving money Allen and you will be fine there.
"Thankfully, there is forgiveness and you will be forgiven by the same spiritual people you are attacking".
These are the same people who spread rumors about Watchdog behind his back, while Watchdog was openly blogging. Found out his name by crooked means, and did not have the decency to inform him about it or the world. But informed themselves about it and insinuated that he committed heinous crimes, especially in SBC circles of being whose sexuality is in question, of stealng mail, of stalking and of federal investigations in progress. Which are all lies.
These are the people who are willing to forgive him. Please sell me the Brooklyn Bridge.
Thy Peace and [many] Anonymous:
It is sad but somewhat amusing to hear some of your desperate claims. You condone Thomas Rich (that is his name) in his desperate antics yet cry foul at FBC for legally defending themselves; Thomas Rich (that is his name) chose this path, not FBC. Again, he will lose, but you can still drink the Kool-Aid he is now serving you...bottoms up!
FBC has been forthright and followed [both Biblical] and legal direction, plain and simple. Unfortunate for Thomas Rich and you [his groupies], one statement sums it all up: not accepting the facts doesn't change the facts. Sorry, guys! Don't hide behind your cowardice and hypocrisy as you wrongfully extort.
-Allen
It is sad but somewhat amusing to hear some of your desperate claims.
Those are not desperate claims. Granted to you, it might look like that. Let us wait for the legal process to flush these truths in the open.
You condone Thomas Rich (that is his name) in his desperate antics yet cry foul at FBC for legally defending themselves;
I am fully supportive of Fbc Jax in defending themselves. I have not always agreed with Watchdog, but I defend his right to free speech and dissent.
Thomas Rich (that is his name) chose this path, not FBC.
Yes, initially it was Watchdog who setup the blog (though a second one). But the lawsuits in questions are based on the actions of Fbc Jax Leadership on how they found Watchdog's identity and what they did with it.
Again, he will lose, but you can still drink the Kool-Aid he is now serving you...bottoms up!
It remains to be seen, if Watchdog will lose the court cases. Based on the Law, it is very difficult to bring charges against a Church, based on the separation of State and Church, as has happened to Sheri Klouda. But I am sure this was considered by Watchdog and his attorney, before they filed the lawsuits.
FBC has been forthright and followed [both Biblical] and legal direction, plain and simple.
FBC has not been forthright. And they did not follow the biblical process. Their legal direction so far has been that Watchdog would remain quiescent and cower under the pressure of Fbc Jax hardball tactics. It will all come out in the courts, for ALL the world to know.
Unfortunate for Thomas Rich and you [his groupies], one statement sums it all up: not accepting the facts doesn't change the facts.
The same could be said for Fbc Jax supporters.
Sorry, guys! Don't hide behind your cowardice and hypocrisy as you wrongfully extort.
My understanding is this is not extortion. The money being stipulated in the lawsuits is a minimum amount to get the lawsuits started, but the actual amounts will be determined by jury, if it gets to that stage. I clearly am not Watchdog and I do not know his thinking. If I were Watchdog and the lawsuits were to prevail against Fbc Jax, I would ask for amounts that would equal monies spent on the lawsuits. Here Watchdog would have to answer this at some point or the Jury can award what it deems, if the lawsuits get to that stage.
I am sure tom you WILL get whats coming to you and your familey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To: Allen
Allen, (that is your name?)
You amuse me.
You have somehow misread the blog or have intentionally not read the blog.
Mr. Thomas A. Rich, (that IS his name) has not cried foul for FBCJ or Mac to legally defend themselves in court.
Mr. Thomas A. Rich, (that IS his name) is calling for them TO defend themselves in court.
Mr. Thomas A. Rich was not given that same opportunity in his own church, to be told the truth or given the opportunity to tell THE truth.
In court, FBCJ and Mac will have to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Mr. Thomas A. Rich, (that IS his name) is only following Mac and FBCJ's leading in the public, legal system becoming involved in this matter. They started this ball rolling by involving JSO & SAO instead of meeting with him in love.
For you see Allen, (that is your name?) it was Mac and FBCJ that brought this matter to JSO & SAO, into the public, legal arena first.
It is now for that public, legal arena to decide the fate of all parties involved.
All will answer for what they have done.
Because you state that "FBCJ has been forthright and followed [both Biblical] and legal direction" tells us that you are in NO WAY in the loop with FBCJ or either you are drunk off the liquids they are pouring these days.
You my friend, Allen, (that is your name?) have not accepted any of the facts that have been produced by Mac himself on both audio and video streams here and elsewhere on the internet.
(Thank God that the internet is forever!)
You have also not accepted the other facts which have been presented as legal documents on this site and others.
Like you said Allen, (that is your name?) not accepting the most logical facts, does not change that they are still FACTS.
Allen, (that is your name?) no one on this blog who is in support of Thomas A. Rich are wrongfully extorting with either cowardice or hypocrisy.
We the people of this blog are expressing our own personal testimony, of that you Allen, (that is your name?) cannot take away from us or argue against.
We the people of this blog are eye witnesses to our own testimony.
Your fear shows in your post.
That is sad, but we can wear that as a badge of courage.
"FBC has been forthright and followed [both Biblical] and legal direction, plain and simple"
Allen, Can you show me where church leadership using civil magistrate to seek secret subpeona's is in scripture? Can you show me where giving a trespass warning after they learned his name is in scripture?
Or perhaps you can show me where Paul calls another brother in Christ a sociopath to the unbelieving public?
Allen, friend, you need to spend more time in the Word alone. You do not really know what is biblical. Or, you are allowing some to teach you wrong doctrine. That is serious business, friend, for your sake.
Friends, get out of these false temples. They are leading you astray with false doctrine that will kill your soul.
Matt
Allen: Get your head out of the sand.
Dr. Brunson said it best today: presecution, intimidation and false accusations are all signs you are doing the Lord's work. We should expect to deal with nameless, faceless people and should appreciate their futile attempts, such as the majority of the negative posts on this blog.
Matt: don't just use your Bible as a coaster, friend. Friend, open the Word, read, learn and apply. You are blinded by all the negative hyperbole and it is obviously leading you in the wrong direction. Friend, spend some time alone in the Word, because this is serious business...time to be mature, friend.
FBC Insider: (no name = no credibility). You are welcome to your opinion and testimony, but don't get lost in the emotions and excitement which take away from the facts you simply won't accept.
-Allen
hey Allen
Why do you think it is ok for Brunson to tell pastors in his Pastors Guidebook not to accept expensive gifts, live in executive homes, or drive fancy cars but he does those things himself?
Why is it ok for him to tell other pastors in the same book to meet personally with an unhappy church member but we know for a fact 2 people tried to get Brunson to meet with Tom Rich and Brunson wouldn't meet.
Why is that ok Allen?
Matt: don't just use your Bible as a coaster, friend. Friend, open the Word, read, learn and apply. You are blinded by all the negative hyperbole and it is obviously leading you in the wrong direction. Friend, spend some time alone in the Word, because this is serious business...time to be mature, friend.
Wow!
There are three commentators on this blog, for whom those comments will never apply:
1. Lydia
2. Matt
3. It Is Written or Bro./Pastor Rod H.
Allen, you need to seriously read the comments of these commentators to realize these three deeply study The Word.
Please forgive me, if I left anyone else out.
It is ok, Thy Peace. I asked Allen some pointed questions but all he can come back with is "open your bible". He is not willing to show me where in scripture he has support for his views. And we both know why.
But I do pray for eyes to be opened.
Matt
Allen: July 25, 2009 9:59 PM
Bullies are not the lone little guys on the sidelines. They are the powerful ones with the money and rich friends and armies of sycophants panting to do their bidding.
Allen is a punk troll. That is NOT his name. I know the puny little sissy and why he is scared, afraid, unwilling to put his full name on this blog. He puts Tom's name over and over in his post, after we all know Tom's name as it is on the lawsuits! Yet Allen the punk is afraid to put his real full name on here. Nice Allen, you punk coward. Allen is a troll and needs to be ignored until he finds the courage to put his name on here and voice his thoughts here like a man.
And "Allen" if persecution is "proof" a man is doing God's will, then Darrel Gilyard is really doing God's will as he is even sitting in a prison cell under great and real persecution. And Tom and his family is receiving much more persecution than Mac who is traveling the globe and living like a king. Persecution!??? Are you serious. One man gives him a $307K land gift and another one blogs and Mac is being persecuted. Put me in Mac's home and give me his handlers, and benefits and salary and let me tell you how persecuted I am. Go to China if you want to see real Christians and real persecution. And NONE of those are living like kings. Poor old Mac. Being "persecuted" and "under attack." Circle the wagons, he must be doing God's will.
Signed, Leroy Miller
You have no right to privacy where public statements occur. You are free to say anything that you are willing to take personal responsibility for. That is the bottom line. You are lucky that FBC has the class to forego action against you for your damages.
There are those that might consider your blog as "inciteful." I have rights and I have the right to be concerned about my safety as well as others. Law enforcement is obligated to become involved where public safety is a concern and to ignore a report would violate laws. The investigative reports become public, as a consequence, and accessible by all. It occurs to me that you could accumulate $15,000.00 with way less effort than you are wasting with your worthless words.
I've been looking over this blog for a month or so now, and I have yet to see anything that looks "inciteful." Point out specifics and I'll take another look. What, exactly was inciteful about those other blogs that the church found it needed to check out? Was the blog on the molester pastor also "inciteful"? What seems more inciteful to me was this pastor calling Watchdog a sociopath. After that, Brunson's followers might very well have been incited to stop the wild sociopath. That seems more inciteful to me than anything someone might read into Watchdog's musings.
Pro ... your comments are intended to incite.
I believe that God put our court system in place. When pastors, elders and deacons go wrong, they should face their accuser and the court system assures this will occur.
Christ calls us to be a light shining on a hill so that all may see it and praise God. If we truly live our lives out so that all may see, we should be glad to make our case before the court system. If we have done nothing wrong, then we have nothing to fear. But, methinks Brunson is worried. If he has done nothing wrong, he should be delighted to have his day in court.
I believe the admonition for not suing one's brother must be looked at in context. First, it is the responsibility of the church to make sure that the church governance is fairly set up. This obviously did not happen here. That Scripture is to be used when there is actually a deep relationship between the parties.
When pastors go wrong and do not follow Scripture and their sycophants march in lockstep, they have voided that Scripture. Even Paul went to Rome to plead his case.
It appears to this outsider from another state and who follows church struggles with interest that Tom is doing the Scriptural thing. I am soooo weary of those who open their Bibles, find a verse, and then claim it without carefully looking at the context, in light of that chapter, as well as the Bible as a whole. It shows a naivete that allows people like Brunson to "rule" as opposed to be a "loving servant." Note: loving!!!!!
Tom and his wife have not been treated in accordance with Scripture and anyone who thinks this process is Biblical has not been studying the words carefully.
Hand in there Tom
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