"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Friday, September 11, 2009

Politics and Mac Brunson: A Ticking Time Bomb

I like Stan Jordan. I hope he's elected to the Florida Senate this fall. Stan Jordan is a conservative Republican who shares my conservative values.

Stan is a long-time member of First Baptist Church Jacksonville.

Mac Brunson is his pastor.

Its no secret that First Baptist Church has had a long history of influential politicians as members, too long to list.

But one of the dangers of having Mac Brunson as the pastor after his antics the first 3 1/2 years of his tenure, is it invites media scrutiny and public criticism of political candidates, like Stan Jordan, who have chosen to remain members of FBC Jacksonville under the teachings of Mac Brunson.

Its only a matter of time before an opponent of an FBC Jax member and politician runs TV commercials asking the FBC candidate why he remains a member of and financially supports a church that:

- has an associate pastor on staff who unashamedly has declared in writing and in a sermon from the puplit, the Catholic Church to be a "cult", and has declared Catholic priests to be "cult leaders", and who has declared that voting for Obama is a sin that a Christian must repent of;

- has a Senior Pastor who has declared that if a hurricane hits Jacksonville, he hopes and prays FEMA does NOT come and help us;

- has a Senior Pastor that has declared our terrible economy to be caused by a judgment of God, for the failure of Christians in this country not donating 10% or more of their money to the church;

- has declared that 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, rising gas prices, and the stock market crash and resulting economic recession to be the direct result of God "working behind the scenes" to see how he can punish Americans;

- has a pastor whose personal body guard was involved in leading a criminal investigation and issuance of subpoenas to unmask a blogger who had the "audacity" to exercise his rights to free speech and publicy criticized the pastor of the church;

- has a pastor who has attacked a former church member and blogger publicly, defaming him as a "sociopath", and issuing trespass papers against his wife for the sin of "associating" with her blogging husband;

- has a pastor who "praises God" that his parishioners didn't get a raise during the tough economic times of 2008, while he himself lives high on the hog and takes expensive trips around the world and even accepted a six-figure gift from a wealthy donor.

I have no doubt that if Stan Jordan were asked about any of these, he would distance himself from Mac Brunson, as well he should; much like Obama had to when he was forced to answer for the ridiculousness of his own pastor, Jeremiah Wright.

So shouldn't voters ask Jordan if he believes and supports the Mac Brunson/Jim Smyrl nonsense? Why not? One of Jordan's lists of accomplishments is his faithfulness to his church. Last fall I'll bet Stan Jordan would've told you that Obama's affiliation with Jeremiah Wright's church caused him great concern. Shouldn't citizens be concerned that we might elect a man to represent us in Tallahssee who believes the solution to our economic crisis lies in having more people donate to mega churches, and believes on 9/11 and in Hurricane Katrina God has punished America for her sins just as Jeremiah Wright declared?

And shall we mention Mike Huckabee? He has come to preach in Mac's church - if he runs in 2012, will he be asked why he came to preach in a church that believes such nonsense as that?

We shall see.

Mac Brunson and politics: a ticking time bomb.

88 comments:

Jim said...

Watchdog, thanks for a great post. I certainly hope the local media takes Stan to task for tolerating the ridiculous rants of the Mac and the culturally challenged leadership team at FBC. Imagine the uneasy smile on brother Mike's face when Larry King asks him why he accepted an invitation to preach in a church where the leadership believes Catholics are a "cult" and all Muslims are out to destroy America. I can hardly wait to hear his carefully scripted response.

Anonymous said...

Now here is a situation I understand. Here is the problem...the votes at FBCHJax are more important than anything you listed.

Where else can you go and be guaranteed a base of so many thousands of votes. Yes, even it if only totals up to 6,000 or so. (All mega's lie about numbers)

At one mega during an election campaign for congress PETA protested across the street from the church on Sunday and it brougt out the news reporters. They were protesting because the candidate went to church there and was a republican.

You know what we did? We sent over coolers of ice cold drinks for the protesters wearing the hot chicken suits.

It worked, we looked pious, got free coverage for our guy which resulted in more votes.

Trust me, he will find a way to capitalize on the relationship even in the midst of corruption.

Mega's are good at this sort of thing. They all have communications/pr departments.

Matt

Anonymous said...

I fear you are correct Matt. The Macs of the world do not get to where they are without being terrific spin doctors!

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to say thanks for contributing to the campaign of Stan Jordan's opponent with this post. Good grief, man, with supporters like you, who needs an opponent.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Just pointing out the obvious.

Politicians who have tried to hang Jeremiah Wright around Obama's neck who sit under Mac Brunson and Jim Smyrl might expect to have to answer the same questions Obama did, about their own pastors and rightly so, in my humble opinion.

But I don't think Stan Jordan would for a minute defend the antics of Brunson and Smyrl. Do I think Jordan actually believes our economic woes are because Aunt Sally and Grandpa Joe are only donating 3% to their church instead of 10%? No way. Does Jordan view his Catholic friends as cult members and priests as "cult leaders"? Of course not. But his OPPONENTS could try to hang their commments and actions by Jordan's pastors around his neck, and he'll have to publicly renounce them.

Such is life now at FBC Jax.

Stand up, stand up for Mac, ye soldiers of the cross.

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to say thanks for contributing to the campaign of Stan Jordan's opponent with this post. Good grief, man, with supporters like you, who needs an opponent.
_________________________________

Mr. Rich,

Thanks for the post today as I agree with every point you made.

Mr. Jordan, knows he will have lots of opponent questions and has a game plan to answer each and every one - I'm sure he's already made his checklist answers in regards to the church. He will return with the "politically correct" answers. Good politicians always know how to field answers to difficul questions.

Personally, I'm amused at election time when all of the politicians come out LIKE ANTS to our church for the hand waving, applause and camera shots. Big opportunity for votes! As a church we are known in the community to have members who are politicians.

I'm also amused that someone like yourself started a "simple blog" to address a trend happening within the walls of the FBC church, and to do nothing more than simply allow other "guest bloggers" to come on board and participate with questions and comments.

Amused is perhaps the wrong word, should be AMAZED as I'm sure you are a man who never dreamed this blog would have a major following with daily posts that spark hundreds of comments, with international readership.

On behalf of many of "your supporters" again thank you!

Anonymous said...

"Just wanted to say thanks for contributing to the campaign of Stan Jordan's opponent with this post. Good grief, man, with supporters like you, who needs an opponent."

This is the attitude at most mega's. Never mind the facts, just get OUR guy elected.

Note, it does not get personal or crucial when it is about Jesus Christ. But when it is about politics and elections, it gets serious.

Anonymous said...

I am the "poster" from 10:00a.m. I am not defending Mac or Smyrl, but I am supporting a conservative like-minded candidate. In tough elections we all overlook cracks in "our" candidates armor.
I am sure that if he has a capable opponent, Mr. Jordan will have to answer these issues without our help. That was my point, it was never in defending statements by Dr. Brunson or Jim Smyrl, but rather to question why you would bring them up AGAIN!
Those points have been made months in the past, no need in us doing opposition research for a candidate that we have no intention of voting for.

Anonymous said...

I am surprised that your current church puts up with your blogging habits. If you were a member of my church, I would do everything possible to have you kicked out. Look around, I'll bet there are those that think similiarly to me. You are without a doubt the most incorrigible person claiming Christianity that I have come across. You, at best, display the maturity of about a 5th grader.

Oh, "I have the right to free speech without responsibility for my words." Let me make up a few amendments to the constitution to support my claim to privacy. I get to bring suit against the law enforcement for outting me during the course of an investigation.(I cannot figure out if this is your ego or naivette. If questionable things happen to the subject of your ridiculous rants, don't you think that you might become one of the usual suspects?)

Knock it off. Do something to edify the body of Christ for a change.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Are you a FBC Jax member? If so, you have learned well from your pastor.

Anonymous said...

"A hit dog will bark."

Anonymous said...

Man these Mac Supporters are about as surly as our so-called President.

Anonymous said...

I do not think we have to concern ourselves with how Mr. Jordan can and will answer any questions. He is capable of meeting and maintaining decorum in any venue. He did not get to be a full colonel in the Army undeservedly. He has real character and I have observed him for many years to be a man of honor, trust, and holding to values that make him a Great American!!! He has my vote and my confidence to be the leader we need in the state legislature. I am in no way related. This posting would be a suprise to him.

Provender said...

It really wouldn't hurt if all Christians did a little more opposition research.

Anonymous said...

Vote Clayton Vandiver for School Board District 1.
A good conservative Christian non politician with no alterior motives, just a passion for bettering education for our children.
Unlike Dr.Hypercrite, er...Brunson.

Anonymous said...

What about Clay Yarborough, Don Redman, Steve Weiss, Jerry Holland, Max Leggett, Jim Fuller, Mike Hogan, and the scores of other folks that work for them and the city?

Anonymous said...

I bet Stan Jordan is glad you like him. I'd hate to see the post you would have written if you did not like him.

I don't think that most people would hold political candidates responsible for everything that comes from the pulpits of the churches they attend. I don't.

Louis

Anonymous said...

"If questionable things happen to the subject of your ridiculous rants, don't you think that you might become one of the usual suspects?)"

Oh now this is interesting. What has happened to any of WD's subjects? Are you saying you believe 'stalking photographer' story? Where is the police report? Why aren't they STILL looking for him?

Or how about the mail theft? Where is the PO report documentation?

Perhaps you have the 'reasoning' of a 3rd greader if you believe such nonsense.

What is sad is that you think Mac and FBCJax have anything to do with Jesus Christ. Let's test him: Scripture says to deny SELF and follow HIM.

Let us see, can Mac give up speaking gigs? Blue jag? 501c3? Blue Danube cruise? travel? Fame? celebrity? Royalties? Big salary?

Hmmm. Wonder why he is in ministry? Wonder if he would stay if he was told no more perks and only 60,000 grand a year.

I think the FBCJax folks ought to try that and see what happens. FULL Disclosure of his other 'interests' and speaking fees.

Let's just see if Mac is in it for role modeling deny self as a believer to the world.

My guess is that he and his followers think he deserves the propertiy Gospel life.

Anonymous said...

"I don't think that most people would hold political candidates responsible for everything that comes from the pulpits of the churches they attend. I don't."

I am not sure that is a good thing. It is the Name of Christ being profaned and we should always expect a higher standard for Christians who claim His Name when running for office.

It would have been better if more had taken Jeremiah Wright's sermons more seriously.

So, Is Stan Jordan at FBCJAX for the votes or for the truth of the Word?

I think that is a fair question if a certain church has been involved in a scandal involving a local government entity like FBCjax and the JSO.


I would be very interested in how an elected person would view that situation. And why they felt they should keep supporting such a 'church'. And wouldn't they want EVERYONE to have the same access to subpeona's or just celebrities?

Makes me wonder just how much Stan Jordan really cares about free speech.


Matt

Anonymous said...

Now you are comparing jeremiah wright and mac brunson. Do you have any REAL news to report? With each successively loony post, I wonder why you are still going on with this blog.

Anonymous said...

Off Topic: I heard Jr Hill's sermon this morning on channel 11. He was excellent. He brought up the fact that 26,400 Southern Baptist churches failed to baptize one teenager last year. We are losing the current generation. He also said that 90% of teenagers do not attend any church. These are horrible statistics. I guess that the reason is that we have gotten away from preaching the Bible and have just gone to speaking about everything else. Could it be this is the reason rather than people not paying their tithe that our country is going backwards? I blame the preachers for not winning the young people to Jesus Christ. They need to take a good look within and change their message and THEIR mindset if they intend on changing the minds of our youth. Just my opinion of whats behind the breakdown of revival, renewal, and repentance in these days.

Anonymous said...

Could someone check and see if Mr. Jordan is still a member at FBCJ. I am not sure. Either way he is an honest and reputable man. I will vote for him.

Anonymous said...

60 grand a year? Ha! Now that's funny. His family wouldn't accept that if you "paid" them to. Live like the common man? Er, that's beneath Brunson stock.

Anonymous said...

Oh now this is interesting. What has happened to any of WD's subjects? Are you saying you believe 'stalking photographer' story? Where is the police report? Why aren't they STILL looking for him?

What evidence do you have that contradicts the mail or photography claim? ...none, right? If you accept that Tom started this blog to "help" FBC leadership and members to identify "sinful" and insincere approaches to spreading the gospel, then you have to accept the other parties claims at face value. How else can you find the truth? I personally think that Tom started the blog to disrupt church functions. People that have a good grasp on the English language and communicate well are not necessarily make them an authority on what is or is not good Christian leadership.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

That's right Anon. Let's get all the cards on the table. When did the photography happen, where was it, when and where was the mail stolen, etc. What was the evidence presented to JSO that these things happened to begin with? Where was the evidence that gave any linkage whatsoever to those events, if they occured at all, to a blog that would then cause an investigation to be opened, and then furthermore to have the State Attorney's Office sign subpoena's because of a supposed connection between a blog and those crimes.

And why no interview of the "suspect" once his identify was discovered to ensure he wasn't the culprit?

And why no information in the police reports that documented the crimes being investigated?

And why wait 90 days to take all of this to the deacons - did this have anything to do with the policy of documents being destroyed after 90 days when no crime was found in a police investigation?

And why were three blogs subpoened, which happened to be critical of Brunson and his friends?

Maybe it was all on the up-and-up. Maybe logical answers to all those questions that will satisfy the average Joe that all of the events that transpired from September 08 to Feb 09 were part of our wonderful legal system and it was all a part of JSO just doing a stellar job in protecting the citizenry, and the administration of FBC Jax being the wonderful citizens they are in reporting crimes.

Or maybe it wasn't.

If not, I sure want to know, and people in Jacksonville DESERVE to know.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon 3:09 - did I compare Mac Brunson to Jeremiah Wright? No I didn't.

But the ridiculous statements made by Mac Brunson ARE comparable to statements made by Jeremiah Wright.

You say "why take just a few sound bites from Brunson over 3 1/2 years"?

That's what Jeremiah Wright's defenders said...how unfair to bash him, and Obama, because of his "chickens coming home to roost" and a handful of other comments...just a few minutes of words in decades of preaching.

The point is: just as a politician was made to either eat or vomit the most ridiculous aspects of his preacher, Jeremiah Wright's preaching and teaching and actions, so also, eventually, will a politician from FBC Jax have to do with his/her pastors, Brunson and Smyrl.

Sorry, but Smyrl has written and preached that Catholics are a cult, and priests are cult leaders, and that all Catholics are "living a lie". Sorry, but Brunson on multiple occasions has said that God was the direct cause, the instigator, of terrible things in America, that God was working behind the scenes to harm Americans. If I had lost someone on 9/11, I would be offended to hear Brunson's nonsense that God caused the death of my loved one just to get our attention....just as I would be with Wright's "chickens coming home to roost" comment.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon 11:02 pm

I agree with you about Jordan.

And how disgraceful the mud-slinging is in our local TV market between the other two candidates, Thrasher and Quiggle. Quiggle, by the way, I hear showed up at FBC Jax to get recognized by Whitmire and get some free camera time.

When you see the mud-slinging ads between these two men who are BOTH Republicans, and by all appearances conservative Republicans....do you think either Quiggle or Thrasher would not have slung mud toward Stan Jordan if he were a leading candidate for the house seat? They would be all over Jordan, too, but he's too far back in the polls.

Anonymous said...

Tom,

There is no conspiracy. You ticked off a lot of people with your blog. There was some unsolicited email from a list or information that originated at the church to promote your website.(You have not denied this.) You were trusted. It does not matter whether you took the pictures or someone else did. Perhaps you have no idea of who might take pictures or lift someones mail, after all. It does not matter. It happened because credible people say it happened.

"If you hang out with the crows..."

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon 5:25 - we shall see.

The only problem is, the vast majority of clear-thinking people, Christians included, OUTSIDE of FBC Jax, don't agree with you.

Anonymous said...

No the problem is with certain terms that you use. "The vast majority" is synonymous with "I am grasping at straws over here."

Anyone can take either side of a situation and come up with an argument in favor or against. When one party starts backing it up with pseudo statistics he loses.

Go back to the original facts. Who started this? What is it that lit the fuse. Perhaps you tried to speak with FBC leadership of your concerns, in the proper forum, and you were dismissed. Up to this point, I have never seen you claim to have made any such attempt. It would seem that if what you claim is true of the FBC leadership, then like minded people would be coming forward in droves. I do not see any evidence to support that thinking either.

Anonymous said...

"What evidence do you have that contradicts the mail or photography claim? ...none, right?"

Is that how it works? They get to destroy documents of reports and then we have to prove Tom innocent?

But there is one problem. There is no PO report. They handle mail theft. So, why wasn't it reported? Why the accusation against Tom without any report?

Are these really the kind of people you hold up as godly? Strange how much people will look the other way if they have a title.


" If you accept that Tom started this blog to "help" FBC leadership and members to identify "sinful" and insincere approaches to spreading the gospel, then you have to accept the other parties claims at face value."

Actually Tom has done a service to the true Body of Christ.

But since you mention it, are you saying that the clips of Mac are not Mac? Are you saying he did not accept a land gift? Have his wife and son on salary at the church?

ARe you saying what has been reported on this blog to date is nothing but a lie? Can you point them out one by one, please.


"ow else can you find the truth?"

You may want to start with Matthew and read through to Revelation to get a feel for how servants of the Body comport themselves if they are truly saved. Pay special to attention to the Pharisees because your "pastor" resembles them.

"I personally think that Tom started the blog to disrupt church functions. People that have a good grasp on the English language and communicate well are not necessarily make them an authority on what is or is not good Christian leadership."

Let us hope this blog disrupts the functions of what you call a church. Let us hope that folks will flee from that cultic following of a man and stop throwing money at him.

What is Christian leaderwship? Would you define that for us biblically?

We could always compare Mac to Paul since you think Macis so great. Let's start there.

Anonymous said...

Tom,

You are horrible. Everything was just peachy at FBCJAX until you revealed the evil lurking behind the stage. Now they are mad because they are expected to think for themselves, follow Christ instead of man and actually read scripture for themselves. How dare you.

Anonymous said...

Who needs the irresponsible media when they have the watch dog? You are music to their ears.

Former FBC Insider said...

Anon. September 13, 2009 5:48 PM,

"Perhaps you tried to speak with FBC leadership of your concerns, in the proper forum, and you were dismissed. Up to this point, I have never seen you claim to have made any such attempt. It would seem that if what you claim is true of the FBC leadership, then like minded people would be coming forward in droves."

Tom had plenty of heads up from the droves who were denied meetings with Mac BEFORE his attempt at discussing issues with Mac.

There were no meetings granted.
The droves were sent on their way when they brought up issues of concern with Mac. They were wished well in their search for their new church home. Cut and dry. Hard and cruel. I'm talking people in leadership for many years. Mac didn't want or need a discussion. That's how his game was played.
It's the norm when you're the new guy in the pulpit in a Mega. Bring your own toys in and get rid of, or at least let the old toys die off or leave.

Tom knew he was no one special that would warrent being granted the pleasure of a meeting. He was just like the droves before him.

I've been there.
I've seen it first hand.
It's painful.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Who needs the irresponsible media when they have the watch dog? You are music to their ears.

September 14, 2009 7:52 AM
___________________________________
Little Confused!
Is this comment meant to insult the journalist at FLOIDA TIMES UNION saying they are irresponsible!

It appears to me that the "music" that folks are hearing is coming more from others than the Watch Dog. If you don't like the choir music, change the station. :>)

Thy Peace said...

Off Topic:

Grace and Truth to You [Pastor Wade Burleson] > Why the 1963 BFM Is a Better Confession than the 2000 BFM When It Comes to a Statement About Belief In the Scriptures.
We have been blessed with all spiritual blessings through Jesus Christ our Lord. The legalists, the prosperity gospel advocates, and others who misunderstand the gospel, will often take conditional promises of the Old Testament (particularly the material blessings promised to Israel if they obeyed God), and misapply them to Christians today.

Anonymous said...

You are more than a little confused I am plenty sure!!!

David

Anonymous said...

I just checked by the blog this morning in hopes that I might read something other than your obsessing with Mac but to no avail. Surely you can find something better to do than just think about him day and night.

You do have a wife, children, and a new church don't you?

Anonymous said...

"Cut and dry. Hard and cruel. I'm talking people in leadership for many years."

Things were the same as FBD. But also I saw those in leadership that would not associate with anyone that wouldn't "help" their career ambitions. It seemed there were some people they just wouldn't talk to or even be fake-friendly with (which is almost as bad as not even being acknowledged).

Anonymous said...

I saw Rodney Brook on Charles Stanley's TV Church Service. I see Rodney has re-created his FBC Jax masterpiece in record time. More power to him! I do wonder, however, if Rodney found out about Mac's 300K land gift and just couldn't stay around and ignore it. Seems that he and the other associate pastors knew something was wrong with team Brunson and left as soon as they could. Look what is left. Scandal, Greed, and just plain Meanness.

Anonymous said...

I just checked by the blog this morning in hopes that I might read something other than your obsessing with Mac but to no avail. Surely you can find something better to do than just think about him day and night.
___________________________________

I just checked by today to see if Mac or anyone at the church had contacted Tom in accordance with Matthew 18, or Mac and Soud had apologized for the name calling, or if Mac preached Sunday on something other than church discipline (as only he can do, finding it in the OLD TESTAMENT!), or if Mac's supporters had quit obsessively "checking" this blog every day.

No such luck. I will check back tomorrow to see if these "Godly, Christian" church leaders have shown any kind of Christian love or biblical action towards Tom and his wife.

Anonymous said...

September 14, 2009 11:54 AM, I agree with your observations. The "true" or "real" called ministers left. They were qualifed to find other jobs and had enough conviction to not be a yes man and enabler to this nonsense. The ones that stayed on, obviously have NO, NONE, ZIP, qualifications to get hired at any other church and no way those guys want to go back into the real business world and try to pull down the same salary and treatment they receive now. And I don't need to list these guys, they know who they are.

Hold on that job at all costs. No wonder Team Brunson nor anyone else has any respect for you boot lickers. Just hope Trey, or Honey or Maurilio don't decide its time for YOU to go. Maybe an email from Trey, or one of the new hires will come in and give you the news.

Good luck with that, boys.

Anonymous said...

I have whittled the state Senate seat race down to Stan Jordan.

It was between Art Graham and Stan until I got one of those recorded phone calls from Art.

If you want me to vote for you then come to my house and ask for it, NO RECORDED MESSAGES!

Jim Thrasher, actually Jim TRASHER and Dan Quiggle are engaged in a childish finger pointing contest and both live in well to do areas of NE FL, so they have no concept of what it is like to struggle.

Also, THRASHER, as an FSU alumni decided FSU needed a medical school, in a state with several already. What he did was a favor for some buddies and got his name elevated at FSU.

Vote for Stan Jordan, conservative, pro-life, lots of experience, no nonsense and he attends a great church.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Completely off topic, but to get a glimpse of what reality is for most ministers outside of mega churches, take a gander at this thread in the Baptist Life forum - pastors discussing how they can earn extra money to make ends meet, since their churches are hurting financially during this economy. Maybe the ministers at FBC Jax like Brunson and Smyrl and Whitmire who are pulling down the big bucks could comfort these pastors by telling them that the recession that has affected their churches is God taking out his anger on America for Christians who don't tithe...or maybe he could "scholorship" them to the Pastor's Conference, or maybe give them 1/2 off on the Danube River Cruise. :)

Extra Income?

Anonymous said...

Some of you Tom Rich fans never give up do you? You keep wondering why Mac hasn't called Tom...

First of all, Tom is no longer a member of his church and therefore it would be meddling for him to contact another church's member.

Second, Mac wouldn't have a need to call Tom if he had had the integrity to go in and talk with him personally instead of starting a blog.

Grow up and realize Tom started all this but at least it gives you a place to vent about your hatred for preachers.

Anonymous said...

You do have a wife, children, and a new church don't you?

September 14, 2009 10:22 AM
__________________________________

Whoever this blogger is that keeps attacking the wife and children of the Watchdog with these kind of comments is mentally unstable - I have no problem with reading the critic opponents, but when they continue to make comments as stated above about the wife and children I fear this person is an individual that is crude and dangerous. I don't believe this person is any kid!

Say what you want but lay off the attacks on the wife and kids!

Anonymous said...

"Grow up and realize Tom started all this but at least it gives you a place to vent about your hatred for preachers."

September 14, 2009 12:25 PM

Anon;The bloggers don't hate all preachers!
They just dislike the bad ones like Mac!

Anonymous said...

Tom Started it ???
I dare say NOT. It started when Mac and all the FBCJax leadership ignored Tom and his legitimate concerns. Then, when Tom forced them to pay attention, they turned viscous. The concerns that started this blog are still just as legitimate. ALL Christians should be concerned and demand an accounting for the leadership actions of FBCJax before the blog started and all actions since it has started. Just as Martin Luther demanded that the Catholic Church answer his concerns when he posted them on the door. If Martin Luther were alive today, He'd be blogging away!

Anonymous said...

Who was attacking his wife and children? The question was whether or not Tom is paying attention to his home and church instead of obsessing about Mac.

What goes on at FBC, Jax is really noone's business but the people who are MEMBERS of that church. The rest of us are pure spectators with opinions and you all know what that means.

The other major thing you all seem to forget when you are blaming Mac for everything is that Tom just simply didn't not have the INTEGRITY to arrange an appointment and go in and meet with Mac. Don't feed me that garbage about him being scared or it being dangerous because that is simply a lie.

Anonymous said...

Tom Started it ???
I dare say NOT. It started when Mac and all the FBCJax leadership ignored Tom and his legitimate concerns. Then, when Tom forced them to pay attention, they turned viscous. The concerns that started this blog are still just as legitimate. ALL Christians should be concerned and demand an accounting for the leadership actions of FBCJax before the blog started and all actions since it has started. Just as Martin Luther demanded that the Catholic Church answer his concerns when he posted them on the door. If Martin Luther were alive today, He'd be blogging away!

Now I get it, Tom is the same as Martin Luther.

Conservalutionist said...

Stan Jordan is an excellent candidate and I agree that he will most likely have to answer to attacks if they are thrown at him

Anonymous said...

"The other major thing you all seem to forget when you are blaming Mac for everything is that Tom just simply didn't not have the INTEGRITY to arrange an appointment and go in and meet with Mac. Don't feed me that garbage about him being scared or it being dangerous because that is simply a lie."

September 14, 2009 1:01 PM

Anon surely you "JEST"!

Just set an appointment and go see Mac "HUH"!

Tom had a better chance of calling NASA and getting a ride on the Space Shuttle,than getting an audience with Pope Mac!

Anonymous said...

"Now I get it, Tom is the same as Martin Luther."

September 14, 2009 1:32 PM

Hey you Anon genius.
Why don't you entertain us silly bloggers and just give us some of "The Mac's" great characteristics?

Better yet;
Why don't you answer some of Tom's questions and concerns for Mac,seeing he is not going to answer to anyone.
And also seeing that you appear to know everything!

Anonymous said...

What goes on at FBC, Jax is really noone's business but the people who are MEMBERS of that church.
_________________________________
Right! It is the business of the MEMBERS OF FBCJ and that is why so many members come on this blog to defend a past member whose only fault was to ask questions.

Personally my mate and I run into people almost daily who are members and that's all they want to talk about is this blog, the same questions this "former member" asked is the same questions they today have.

Even some of the "coward" deacons and other "care group leaders" 'teachers' talk within the membership and they too have issues.

Face it, FBCJ has a big problem and a stained reputation because of the way the leadership handled "their business".

My mate and I committed that any discussion about this blog would be off limits for discussion with any member of FBCJ. As members we know how the game is played - we are seasoned believers in church politics.

Even though the "watchdog" has a new church family, he still is connected to many of the members who know and many who don't know him at FBCJ.

As Jr. Hill would say "get over it" as the "business" was handled poorly and the flames are growing, like it or not - that's fact!

Anonymous said...

"What goes on at FBC, Jax is really noone's business but the people who are MEMBERS of that church. The rest of us are pure spectators with opinions and you all know what that means. "


Where ARE you learning this stuff? Show me in NT scripture where it teaches this.

Anonymous said...

If Tom and his wife were as active as they say and Mac was the new pastor, I'm sure he could have gotten an appointment. Your smoke screens are growing old.

Anonymous said...

"If Tom and his wife were as active as they say and Mac was the new pastor, I'm sure he could have gotten an appointment. Your smoke screens are growing old."

September 14, 2009 2:22 PM

If this is not the argument of a certified "KOOL-AID" drinker,I don't know what one is!
Tainted kool-aid will do it everytime.
The effects of one under the control of bad kool-aid is that they think one can go to an arrogant blow-hard pastor and just demand an appointment!

What your next genius statement Anon?

Anonymous said...

Obviously you are not actually a member of FBC, Jax--or probably anywhere else.

I know Mac personally and also know that if Tom and his wife were as active as you all say and think, and were there everytime the doors were open they could have gotten an appointment. Tom could actually have gone up to Mac after a service and asked him to lunch and he would have gone.

You people need to grow up and quit whining. Its tells us a lot about how active you actually are in your church (if you even have one.)

Anonymous said...

My challenge to anyone who has suggestions about who is at fault and what Tom should have done is this (including staff, deacons or members): YOU go in and meet with Mac and dare voice any concerns about any thing and you too will be a former member meddling in the affairs of a church to which you no longer belong.

Better yet, read the deacon's resolution, or take your complaint to Acey Soud. You will quickly learn what it means to be "aggressively confronted."

But thanks for coming here to tell us all what Tom should have done.

Anonymous said...

I fear that Stan Jordan is just another politician who attends FBC Jax because he knows they can deliver votes. Its a great place for business contacts (See Collins Builders) and politicians.

Might not be the case, but I am concerned. I mean they can get people with no qualifications elected (not mentioning any names here) so I just can't trust any member of that church in political office. He may lead like Mac. He may "raise funds" from the plebe like Mac. No thanks to Stan Jordan if he in fact is still a member down there.

Now, on the other hand, if he left the Mac Brunson show, then I will consider him a man of discernment, wisdom and backbone and he gets my full support.

Which is it?

Anonymous said...

Hey September 14, 2009 2:41 PM - the Bible talks about "believing a lie" and "deceiving ourselves." You are doing both to yourself. I will do neither after reading your post. And besides, if you have been paying attention, Tom and hundreds of others prefer to use emails and blogging instead of personal appointments. If Mac didn't like that, he needed to contact Tom personally.

Maybe Mac is the coward with no integrity?

Anonymous said...

Its real easy to speculate now that Tom has had his blog, been outed, and sued. Just walking in and meeting with Mac ain't gonna happen now--but it could have in the beginning. Sounds to me like you're just a bunch of wannabes who just wish you were the yes-men that you are always denigrating.

Mac Discipled said...

Well, I continue to pray and thank Jesus that I didn't get that raise. Getting my wife and kids to be as grateful as I am to God, is much harder. Then, when I started taking 10% of our income and giving it to the church, leaving us without the funds for some medical bills and for some car repairs, my children smiled and said they trusted daddy and they set up a kool-aid stand (no pun intended) to try and help me. As their loving father, they trust me and so they gladly do without so I can give to the church. My wife is not so childlike. She needs shoes and clothes and school supplies for the children and for herself with that money, but I will keep doing this because I am patriotic and love my country and want God to bless us as a nation. Me withholding my tithe was hurting our country according to God's man at my church. Plus, I am on the brink of bankruptcy and my pastor told us all that he has never seen a tither go bankrupt. This gives me so much peace.

Thank you Doctor Brunson for your love and concern and teaching on finances during this very difficult time in the life of me and my family. Like you said, I can't outgive God, so I am going to keep writing checks to FBC Jax and it is my understanding that I will receive much more cash in return, or that my tires will last longer, or my refrigerator won't break down. By faith, I continue on. Sorry, I won't be able to make the Danube River cruise this year. Praise Jesus. Had I gotten a raise I might have just squandered it on that cruise. Amen and Amen.

Anonymous said...

Sounds to me like you're just a bunch of wannabes who just wish you were the yes-men that you are always denigrating.
_________________________________

Sounds to me that you are just jealous of Tom and wish you had a blog that was widely read and commented on. You sound like a wannabe blogger who blogs but no one reads it or comments on it.

Anonymous said...

No speculating here. Many did email, call and meet with Dr. Brunson and were told good luck in finding another church. Had Tom done that, he would have been just another one.

But no, somehow blogging got their attention did it not? And the lawsuit has to, has it not? And I hope and pray the jury verdict will too.

Anonymous said...

" Anonymous said...
Its real easy to speculate now that Tom has had his blog, been outed, and sued. Just walking in and meeting with Mac ain't gonna happen now--but it could have in the beginning. Sounds to me like you're just a bunch of wannabes who just wish you were the yes-men that you are always denigrating."

September 14, 2009 3:08 PM

Hi everybody I am Anon 2:31.
See the above Anon statement?

Did I not tell you what the effects of tainted KOOL-AID was on a person's brain!

Example::notice the above posted Anon's blog.
Please tell me that this Anon did'nt type that insane statement?

There should be a government warning against drinking "KOOL-AID" that has been served up to a disciple of a rogue pastor!

Anonymous said...

Yes, you wouldn't list my earlier post but:

Why are your minions attacking Mrs Brunson and Trey but declare it's unfair when others do the same for your wife and child?

You can't have it both ways.

Anonymous said...

Tom - you owe Mac an apology. Check out this article in today's Times-Union about the homeless problem in our city. Pay special attention to the parts about Mac Brunson and FBC Jax taking the lead to assist those who are homeless and hurting in our economy. This article shows Mac's true heart and why he is so desperately trying to raise more funds from his well to do members.

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-09-13/story/homeless_population_not_limited_to_the_urban_center

Anonymous said...

Why are your minions attacking Mrs Brunson and Trey but declare it's unfair when others do the same for your wife and child?
__________________________________

Sorry, first, I haven't seen any "attacks", just facts about their employment, blue jaguar, etc. Second, aren't they employees of the church? Isn't nepotism a problem in large organizations. If they are no longer on staff, I agree, they are off limits. So, until the WD puts his wife and son on staff at the blog corporate offices, they are off limits.

Former FBC Insider said...

To Posted by Anonymous to FBC Jax Watchdog at September 14, 2009 11:54 AM

Rodney was one of the "Three Kings" that was already set to be replaced by Brunson before he arrived. Rodney and I have had our differences over the many years serving together, but I love him like a brother. I too am very proud of where he is and what he is doing. He is a believer of exactly what he is doing at Stanley's church.

What a difference!

Former FBC Insider said...

Posted by Anonymous to FBC Jax Watchdog at September 14, 2009 2:22 PM

An appointment?
Seriously??
Have you not listened or believed ANY of the personal testimonies on this blog?
You will never get it.
I'm just sorry for you.
Keep hanging on brother, keep hanging on.

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:29pm,

You mind telling us how FBC Jax or Pastor Brunson is in any way associated with the article you posted?
I have read it and find nothing of the sorts. Maybe you hyperlinked the wrong article?

Former FBC Insider said...

Posted by Anonymous to FBC Jax Watchdog at September 14, 2009 2:41 PM

And I have served along side of Tom and Yvette for many years... there was NO appointment to be had.

Here's a good idea to help you confirm your suspicions...

Call up ole Mac or email him and just ASK him about it, you know, just to clear your own conscience, or Mac's...

Guess what??? NO answers will come to you just like no meetings or appointments came to many others who QUESTIONED the almighty OZ behind the curtain.

Click your heels Dorothy...
There's no place like home...

Former FBC Insider said...

Posted by Anonymous to FBC Jax Watchdog at September 14, 2009 3:08 PM

Tom has been sued?

Interesting...

Conservalutionist said...

so much hate

Anonymous said...

orry, first, I haven't seen any "attacks", just facts about their employment, blue jaguar, etc. Second, aren't they employees of the church? Isn't nepotism a problem in large organizations. If they are no longer on staff, I agree, they are off limits. So, until the WD puts his wife and son on staff at the blog corporate offices, they are off limits.

WOW, check your facts from WD. He has a daughter. BTW, how do you decide what is off limits - does WD give you a daily report?

Anonymous said...

"Tom could actually have gone up to Mac after a service and asked him to lunch and he would have gone. "

This sounds like it is written by someone who has no clue the inner workings of a mega church.

Maybe FBCJax is a first but in all the mega's I have seen, the SR pastor has a 'walker' or bodyguard type of person who accompanies him around the church before and after worship.

You may not even notice it unless you look closely. This person's job is twofold. One is protection but even more importantly, this person is to stand by and if someone tries to engage the pastor for too long, they are to remind him that time is short and they must move on.


This is so the pastor cannot offend someone. He is off the hook because the other person reminded him and the pastor 'wanted' to talk longer but couldn't. It is all about image.

And to be fair, there is so much pastor worship in these mega's and folks do try to monopolize him. It is considered an honor to be seen talking to the big guy.

Also, This person needs to get a clue about his appointment calender. "Lunch" is scheduled way ahead of time.

Many might want to tell me that Mac does not do it this way but it would almost impossible if he did not. What they may not realize is that the image is carefully crafted to make him appear to be one of the people. When, in fact, he is not.

Also, keep in mind that Mac's defense has been all along he was afraid that someone was trying to hurt him and that is why they had to get the subpeona's.

Since Mac cannot know every single person in the church, it seems to me he would be very careful who he decides to lunch with since he is afraid someone has been trying to harm him. That is what the investigation was all about, right?

Matt

Anonymous said...

Why are your minions attacking Mrs Brunson and Trey but declare it's unfair when others do the same for your wife and child?

You can't have it both ways.

September 14, 2009 3:28 PM
___________________________________
Mrs. Brunson and son Trey are PAID EMPLOYEE'S AT FBCJ . . .fair game.

Have never understood why Mrs. would even take a salary, being the salary her husband makes - why wouldn't she just work as a volunteer with her talents and job skills as I certainly could not take any additional monies from a church who was so generous with my husbands salary.

As for the son, his resume would have been "tossed" by most Human Resource Directors - simply not enough experience. As far as the "praise" from "daddy" from the pulpit about the great work he does on the Pastor's Conference, that's a farce, all that was and is needed is to piggyback the work of Pigg & Lewis to make the annual conference run perfect. Easy to follow someone else's work manuel!

Also, I suspect the Mission Director's resume would have been "tossed" as well due to his lack of experience - just another friend brought in and given a title because the wife happened to be the trusted secretary of the Brunsons in Texas.

Sorry but the "Brunson Family" are fair game because they are employee's of the church - that's your reason 3:28pm!

Anonymous said...

Regarding confirming Stan Jordan's church membership status - this was cut and pasted from a 9/11/2009article:

"My wife Shirley and I are members of First Baptist Church of Jacksonville and we have two daughters and four grandchildren."

VOTE QUIGGLE!

Anonymous said...

This is no longer just about Mac and his kool-aid drinkers, but is about all of Christendom. Are we such a gullible and blind people as to not see when we are being manipulated and exploited based on our blind faith? Are we so unfamiliar with the Word of God that we can't see that FBC Jax is not a true church and Mac is certainly no pastor?

If we can believe the nonsense mac spews, what other nonsense are we believing? Talking donkeys, walking on water, virgin births, no evolution of species, we are required to tithe, you will be healthy and wealthy if you "accept Christ"...sheesh.

To quote that great theologian, attorney Johnnie Cochran "If you can't trust the messengers, how can you trust the message?"

I do NOT trust the messengers at FBC Jax and am now beginning to not trust 99% of their message.

Anonymous said...

I fear that Stan Jordan is just another politician who attends FBC Jax because he knows they can deliver votes. Its a great place for business contacts (See Collins Builders) and politicians.

Might not be the case, but I am concerned. I mean they can get people with no qualifications elected (not mentioning any names here) so I just can't trust any member of that church in political office.
__________________________________
Politics & Election Time:

ANON 3:02 PM . . . yes, without mentioning names we (members) know the divorced deacon (?) usher (?) who won his District Seat, despite two or three blown up pages where his face was pictured and where his very own son gave his account in a news journal that was circulated downtown and at the beaches as to why his dad did not deserve the votes (pretty ugly testimony as memory recalls)

This individual (Mr. Personality) won because FBC members do as you say and delivered hundreds of votes for this Duval County business man.

Politicians & business men flock to First Baptist and given a hardy welcome, saved or unsaved.

I believe it would be hard to find anything to attack Stan Jordan with as he's a good man!

Anonymous said...

"Pay special attention to the parts about Mac Brunson and FBC Jax taking the lead to assist those who are homeless and hurting in our economy"


Nuthin but lipstick on a pig.

Nice window-dressing

Anonymous said...

"As for the son, his resume would have been "tossed" by most Human Resource Directors


So what your saying is a diploma- mill degree and a surf ministry is not relevent experience?

Anonymous said...

"the SR pastor has a 'walker' or bodyguard type of person who accompanies him around the church before and after worship."


This is fact. Mac had a HUGE bodyguard in Dallas who stuck to him like a wet t-shirt, even on Weds. night. The funny (or sad) thing was that immediately after his bodyguard came forward at an 11:00 service to get saved, Mac had him on the ground, literally, outside the old Criswell bldg. looking for a very, very wealthy member's lost diamond earring (which basically could've been anywhere). While the bodyguard is all scrounging around looking for a needle in a haystack (immediately after he got saved), Mac splits for lunch.

Anonymous said...

Anon 4:19
Check your facts. He has sons too!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Proper link to the article.

"You mind telling us how FBC Jax or Pastor Brunson is in any way associated with the article you posted?
I have read it and find nothing of the sorts. Maybe you hyperlinked the wrong article?"


That was the right article. I think that was the point!

Anonymous said...

New BBC - you are exactly right. NOT ONE WORD in the article about mac and his $15 million dollar budget going to help these poor folks. Not one homeless person, or hungry person, can tell a reporter "that FBC Jax downtown has really ministered to me in my time of need." Pathetic.

Anonymous said...

TO September 15, 2009 2:22 PM

That is because the homeless downtown have nothing that FBCJax wants.