"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Tuesday, May 11, 2010

Ergun Caner YouTube Spoof - Demonstrating Absurdity by Being Absurd

If you haven't seen these Ergun Caner spoof videos yet, check them out.

I appreciate a blogger using parody and hyperbole to make their point, and this guy does a jam-up job. I've tried my hand at parodying the Ergun Caner saga myself in my Willie Mehmet Nazzarino Antonio Watchdog April Fool's post, but this guy is on to something. I predict as the Caner debacle gains steam in the mainstream media, this guy's website will become very, very popular. The horse is out of the barn now, and before the end of the year, sad to say, Caner and Liberty University jokes will likely be on the Tonight Show, I predict.

I hope this "Ergun Caner" fellow produces more. Those of us who are Rush Limbaugh fans know how effective parodies can be in speaking truth, and as Rush says "demonstrating absurdity by being absurd".

Above is my favorite of the three videos currently at the Dr. Ergun Caner YouTube channel, as Ergun is celebrating the "Good Times" of the Christianity Today article and the Elmer Towns quote, and the takedown of Mohammad Khan's Internet videos.

Might want to check in periodically to see future videos: Dr. Ergun Caner YouTube Channel

52 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wow!

I've never seen a 12-year-old with a beard.

Thy Peace said...

I would like to see a spoof of Ergun Caner getting Fake Tasered.

I concur this video is a very good spoof.

How about Mac Brunson spoofs?

Debbie Kaufman said...

This is my favorite one too. He is very good. These videos contain more truth concerning the facts of this issue than some of the things I read online. :) In parody there is sometimes truth and these videos are no exception. Should I be laughing? To be honest I don't know given the gravity of the situation, but I need the laugh.

I am praying for Dr. Caner, this can't be easy at this point and I do want healing if there is need of it for him, but at the same time, we tried to tell him and Liberty. The worst thing they could have done is pull those videos for copyright infringement which is ridiculous, but Mohammad isn't going to fight it at this point. It's just too much work down the drain. He worked hard on this evidence. Now as "Ergun" says, they are gone. Gone!

john said...

Who is this guy posed as Caner?

Anonymous said...

Surprisingly enough, the local Christian radio station that shills hard for First Baptist Dallas has already reported the story in their morning news segment.

Excellent work to you Dog.

Anonymous said...

I personally have mixed feelings about the Ergun Caner attacks. While I know that honesty is of the utmost importance in those who teach spiritual truths, I also am uncomfortable with the viciousness (my opinion only) of the attacks from the body of Christ on this man. He is after all a fellow believer, a brother-in-Christ. As far as I can tell his only sin is
distorted facts regarding the age he arrived in this country and his involvement in Islam. And his embellishments (lies) are now tripping him up. But does the man deserve to be excoriated or run out of town? I think of Jesus saying: "He who is without sin, cast the first stone." And "Vengeance is MINE, I will repay, says the Lord." I know the attempt to cover-up the lies by
Liberty University is what rankles most. But does the man himself deserve such dogged and harsh judgment? Does the sin he is guilty of negate the good he has done? How would we all measure up if we were put under such a microscope of judgment?

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:23 am

You say: "He is after all a fellow believer, a brother-in-Christ."

I say:
How do we know "for sure" that he is a fellow believer? I have witnessed too many who have professed Christ, taught bible classes, been Choir Directors (example Rodney Brooks), served as deacons & committee leaders in the body of Christ for years in the church and then find them that I believed was a Christian walk the isle saying they had never been saved. Only Christ knows the true heart of man.

I question any man whose made claims of being trained as a former jihadist Muslim - especially a man who is a Seminary President.

Asking questions about ones character that go unanswered is not judging.

Caner himself is known for "ATTACKING" and taking "JABS" standing in the pulpit, while the body of believers sit in their pews and laugh at his mocking remarks. Now he oversees a department at Liberty of our young people to teach them the same kind of behavior is acceptable.

Anonymous said...

anon 8:23,

You state that he is "after all a fellow believer, a brother in Christ."

That is a false assumption on your part. He is revealing, by living in a state of perpetual, unrepentant sin, that he has, most probably, never known the Lord Jesus Christ in saving truth.

And, this error stems from people holding to an unbiblical view of conversion. Jesus said, you must be born again or you cannot even see the kingdom.

People get into religion for all kinds of self-seeking reasons, but only the true disciples are living a life of ongoing brokeness and repentance over and of sin. The Father will discipline His own, and will not allow his own to make peace with sin.

GOD has graciously exposed this man's sins. Hopefully, this will drive him to Christ in true and repentant faith. I pray that the Holy Spirit gives E. Caner a heart of flesh. I am saddened for him because I know from personal experience how far sin can take you, and how it messes everything up--leading to death.

Jonathan

Anonymous said...

"As far as I can tell his only sin is distorted facts regarding the age he arrived in this country and his involvement in Islam."

So, you are saying that the only thing he did wrong was completely fabricate his testimony which is what caused him to become a celebrity in the Christian community. It seems shocking to me that any Christian would consider this a small matter. But that's not really all of it, is it?

After his lies were exposed, he "clarified his statements" (like a politician) and never showed any sign of contrition while the school board tried to sweep the scandal under the rug. Why does the school board only seem to be concerned when non-Christians ask questions? Could it be that bad publicity in the main stream press could cost them money and students?

"But does the man deserve to be excoriated or run out of town?"

Many others with important secular positions have lost their jobs by lying on their resume. I thought that Christians were held to a higher standard - not a lower one.

"I think of Jesus saying: "He who is without sin, cast the first stone." And "Vengeance is MINE, I will repay, says the Lord."

So, does this mean that we should go into all of the jails and set all of the prisoners free? Or are these verses talking about specific situations that are not applicable for every circumstance?

"I know the attempt to cover-up the lies by Liberty University is what rankles most. But does the man himself deserve such dogged and harsh judgment?"

Yes, the cover-up is just as wrong as the lies. They allow the man to think he is getting away with sin.

By harsh judgement do you mean the attempt to point out unconfessed sin in the life of a seminary professor?

"Does the sin he is guilty of negate the good he has done?"

I would refer you to the passage about Ananias and Sapphira.

"How would we all measure up if we were put under such a microscope of judgment?"

We would all fail. We all sin. But we would all be expected to confess our sins and not continue to harbor unonfessed sin in our lives. Especially when it has already been exposed to a doubting world.

Anonymous said...

those who have been shown mercy in the baptist church will show this guy some. those of us, however, who have been shown the door in the baptist church are probably now ready to show the door to him.

sorry, but you reap what you sow, baptist ministers. bet now you wished you had practiced what you preached.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

"As far as I can tell his only sin is distorted facts regarding the age he arrived in this country and his involvement in Islam."


Just see what happened to this basketball player who lied

Link

"Police have arrested 6-foot, 5-inch Guerdwich Montimere, who was playing for the Permian Panthers as 16-year-old sophomore Jerry Joseph, and charged him with presenting false identification."

Debbie Kaufman said...

Ergun has done much more than the one commenter stated. I think taking the time to read the whole story before commenting would be wise.

Does it negate the good he has done? What good? I'm sorry but for the last 9 years I fail to see any good done by Ergun unless you consider bigoted statements made in each and every talk he has made good. He has done more harm than good and talking to churches more than to Muslims themselves. So what good exactly has he done?

Anonymous said...

Jonathan,

"That is a false assumption on your part. He is revealing, by living in a state of perpetual, unrepentant sin, that he has, most probably, never known the Lord Jesus Christ in saving truth.'

I am amazed that you would make such an assumption. The bible speaks of what you share but it also speaks of the carnal Christian. Does God's description of the carnal Christian, possibly fit Dr. Caner?

Let's say he is lost, as you want everyone to assume. Is beating him verbally, throwing public accusations around about him, his character and lostness the way God would have us win him?

God offers grace... Where is that being demonstrated by the ant-Dr. caner masses?

If I were Dr. Caner and I were lost (as you think) I would not want what you and the hundreds of other anonymous Caner haters offer. If you are really concerned about me, as a lost person, come to me. Do all you can for me, to draw me, even if I turn away from your early advances.

OK, let's hear the excuses of why it is right to go public and not to Dr. Caner himself.

By your own standard given...

"He is revealing, by living in a state of perpetual, unrepentant sin, that he has, most probably, never known the Lord Jesus Christ in saving truth."

You fit this category also. You are perpetually lashing out against Dr. Caner and have no sign of repenting of such unloving behavior,therefore you, most probably, have never known the Lord Jesus in saving truth.

Of course I don't think this of you but do you see how easy it is to start defining other peoples behaviors when we don't even honestly look at our own.

Anonymous said...

"That is a false assumption on your part. He is revealing, by living in a state of perpetual, unrepentant sin, that he has, most probably, never known the Lord Jesus Christ in saving truth.

And, this error stems from people holding to an unbiblical view of conversion. Jesus said, you must be born again or you cannot even see the kingdom."

Thank you my friend, for having the courage to say this outloud. I am afraid Political Correctness about salvation has become normal. Most only want Christ on their terms.

Yes, most of what is taught about salvation is heresy and leading many folks to hell. Matt 7 comes to mind.


"The bible speaks of what you share but it also speaks of the carnal Christian. Does God's description of the carnal Christian, possibly fit Dr. Caner?"

Friend, you have been taught wrong. There are no long time "carnal" Christians. It is impossible since believers have the indwelling Holy Spirit. They are not sinless but they are convicted of sin and repent...continually. 1st John calls it 'walking in the light' and it denotes the way we live. As in sanctification.

It is a spiritual function of being New Creatures in Christ. It is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

To live as carnal is death and mocks the sacrifice of our Lord:

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 (KJV since you used the term carnal)

(Read all of Romans 8)

Carnal means flesh. Do you not find it odd that a long time believer who is a president of a seminary and evangelist could be described as both carnal and saved?

Do so many not know what a Christian looks like? Try studying Matthew 5-7 for starters.

Friends, Many things are coming to light for a reason. Study and pray on your own. God is revealing much to us. Do not be impressed with titles or lofty positions. They are meaningless to the Kingdom. Turn to Christ alone. Our loyalty is to Him alone.

Matt

Anonymous said...

"Let's say he is lost, as you want everyone to assume. Is beating him verbally, throwing public accusations around about him, his character and lostness the way God would have us win him?"

Friend, calm down and use reason. Caner has been evangelizing people using lies about himself. That has been his 'draw':"as one who was trained to do that which was done on 9/11".

Many view him as a respresentative of Christlikeness. Many young men want to be like him and think it is of Christ. Now many are rationalizing why his continual lies are not really that bad as a follower of Christ.

Look at this passage and wonder why it had to be written over something as simple as the Lord's supper to know who the real believers were:

1 Corin 11

18For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, 19for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

Factions can be good. There is only unity in the Spirit. But you must know Christ to recognize this.

Read all of Pauls passionate speech in Acts 20 but pay close attention here:

26Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all of you, 27for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. 28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. 29I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.

Read verse 30 again. What do you think a fierce wolf would be like? Would this wolf not want to be followed? Would this wolf expect loyalty? Would this wolf take correction or rebuke even having the title of elder. You realize Paul is saying here will be false elders.

Would this wolf want to profit off his position? Would this wolf harden his heart when found out to be speaking lies about his background in order to promote himself?

John wrote:

11Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God.

Friends, we must get serious about what it means to be a follower of Christ. God is revealing truths to us. Stop apologizing and rationalizing for the celebrities
and those who promote them. Run to Christ. He is waiting. Time is short.

Matt

New BBC Open Forum said...

Does anyone recognize the books carefully piled on the desk? I can make out:

Oxford School Dictionary

Publisher 2007

Auto Repair for Dummies (LOL!)

The one on the top looks very familiar, but I can't read the title or seem to place it. And the tan one next to the bottom?

Loved when he said he'd been up most of the night celebrating, and you see two opened cans of Red Bull and an opened package of Oreo Cakesters on the desk. I don't know who this guy is, but he's obviously observed hours of Ergun Caner in action because he's got him pegged.

Anonymous said...

Excuse me Anon 1:07 pm but I fail to see where there is "hate" on this issue with Caner. You are going down the wrong road using this excuse.

EMPLOYEES of large companies sign a Code of Ethics when they are hired and believe me they are quickly shown the door when their reputation of behavior is being questioned or if they have failed to be truthful in their job performance.

No way are folks making hate comments on this blog as you suggest but they sure are asking questions about his reputation which comes down to asking if he's the right EMPLOYEE for the title he holds at Liberty University.

Anonymous said...

Ergun Caner has the power to quell the firestorm of criticism by simply humbling himself and clarifying any misconceptions he himself has brought about. If he has lied, he needs to confess it and repent of it and ask forgiveness. That would be the "water" that would put out the
fires of criticism. It would also give him needed grace ("God gives grace to the humble but resists the proud")for whatever plans the Lord has for his future.

Anonymous said...

anon 1:07,

I am afraid that you have an improper and unbiblical understanding of what constitutes love and hate.

Do you believe that Paul, in turning one over to "satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" was unloving?

Righteous judgement, according to the standard of Holy Sripture, and calling to repentance one that makes a profession of Christ, but is ensnared in grievous sin, is the most loving act that other true Christians can perform. This is why biblical churches carry out church discipline--out of love.

If I was in any way associated with him, his church, or school, out of love for his soul, I would go to him and urge him to repent-- no matter what might result.

His "defenders" are the ones that do not take seriously the warnings of Scripture... that no liar will inherit eternal life..... and will go into the Lake of Fire--bound hand and foot. That is, beyond comprehension, dreadful and hateful on their part to not warn him, urge him, to not continue in that behaviour as he could lose his soul--proving to not be a Christian.

Also, I recommend that you read Dr. John MacArthur on the "carnal christian." I am sure there would be something at gty.org.

Jonathan

Anonymous said...

This Brother is getting stabbed in the back by his own people! The only Army to shoot its wounded! Where is the "innocent till proven guilty"?
Have you spoken with Ergun? Has the authors of this Blog even attempted to contact him?
I can give you the answer...NO!
Would you like to be tried and hung in the court of public opinion? Yea,the videos are cute..the question is..would Jesus make videos like this?...(you know the answer)
Laugh and get excited that you have can say...."gotcha"....are you proud of that? Is that your calling in life? Are you the "gotcha" police? I would encourage you to resign from the Court of Public Condemnation....because the way we judge, will be the way the Almighty will judge you.

WishIhadknown said...

Do the ends justify the means? Is lying OK as long as it glorifies Christ? Is that what you teach your children? "It's OK to lie honey as long as no one gets hurt and we are winning the lost to Christ."
Why does that sound strange to me?

Reminds me of the story of the Sunday school teacher, or whatever we call them now, asking her class, “What is a lie?” A little girl spoke up and said, “A lie is an abomination to the Lord.” But then she added the real truth, “an ever present help in times of trouble.”

Anonymous said...

Are you the "gotcha" police? I would encourage you to resign from the Court of Public Condemnation....because the way we judge, will be the way the Almighty will judge you."

May 12, 2010 3:37 PM

==================================
M m m m . . .couldn't help but think of Mac Brunson and his officials on this statement. :>)

Anonymous said...

"This Brother is getting stabbed in the back by his own people!"

No friend. Caner has stabbed our Lord in the back. He used Him. Mocking the Cross and promise of eternal life using his lies to promote himself. Do not treat believers as merchandise.

Jonathan's comment needs to be read over and over. This is serious business. It has eternal life implications.

Caner "gotcha" himself. He has been a showman for the last 9 years. Now, it is proven he lied about quite a few details such as when he came to the US and where he lived. (plus many others) His lies were throw away lines meant to entertain and impress the audience. (as in 'I learned about America from watching the Dukes of Hazzard in while living in Turkey')

Not only does 1 Corin 5 apply here but also 1 Tim 3. Caner is not 'above reproach to the outside'.

Is his hard heart and the hardened hearts of Liberty leaders keeping him from full repentance? Are they standing in the way of the Holy Spirit? It is shameful for all those young people going there to witness this unbiblical and unChristlike behavior from professing Christians who claim to be leaders and represent our Lord. Christianity in the US is a business.

Run, get out of these places.

Matt

Slow to speak said...

I wonder if we have really thought about the value of "YouTube" spoofs? I wonder how the Christian community can see the redemptive quality of such videos? I wonder if comments such as "Thy Peace" who said that they would like to see "Ergun Tasered"....I wonder what's next... Ergun in the Electric Chair? Debbie Kaufman said this is her "favorite video" and then turns around and says "I'm praying for Ergun"...HUH?
Think about this for those of you who REALLY do Pray...Does all of this honor God? YouTube spoofs of other believers...does that really fulfill our command to.."restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness.."
You know the answer...

Thy Peace said...

Slow to Speak:

Ergun Caner did have a video where he was fake tasered.

I only wanted a spoof of it.

Dee said...

Slow to Speak,

You need to be a bit slower to speak. Did you not know that Caner actually had himself tased at an event? Here is the link to the you tube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watchv=0t2rOJISP5E&feature=related

I am afraid that Caner is the one who is bringing this on himself and others.

PS watch this carefully. He is only being hit with one of the two taser darts and this raises questions as to whether or not he was actually, fully tased.

Dee said...

Slow to Speak

Whoops, here is the full ink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t2rOJISP5E&feature=related

Anonymous said...

BBC Open Forum -

The beige book on the bottom is Shirley Temple, American Princess.

The top book is Debating Calvinism (White v Hunt).

Ergun Caner Conman said...

I think Ergun Caner should be put in the wrestling ring with Jesse James. Well, he might want to get some tatoo first. He should go to work as president of Jesse James company

Anonymous said...

does it seem ludicrous to anyone else, not meaning to pile it on, but that Ann Coulter did the forward for Ergun Caners book, and then she makes that quote about the 9/11 widows being in it for profit and enjoying their husbands deaths for profit. Didn't ergun caner use 9/11 for profit, probably the thing I think is worst of all in this story.

New BBC Open Forum said...

The beige book on the bottom is Shirley Temple, American Princess.

The top book is Debating Calvinism (White v Hunt).


Thanks, anon. Excellent!

Anonymous said...

"Do you believe that Paul, in turning one over to "satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" was unloving?"

No but it is clear that Paul was addressing the church where that person was a part of. It is clear that Paul was not making this person who was saved but living lost (carnal) a subject for the entire world to criticize and mock. He was keeping it a church matter. Yes, he knew the talk was out and about but there is no indication he joined that group of gossipers but went directly to the church.

Some problems with your use of 1 Cor. 5.

1 - You are not Paul
2 - You are not going to the people responsible over Dr. Caner.
3 - You are rallying troops of outsiders to join you in your lynch mob, regardless of some of the words you use, you are not loving Dr. Caner. You are more interested in exposing him than seeing him repent.

1 Corinthians may apply to this situation but not the way bloggers are using it to have their own desires met. James 1.

You are as guilty as using this blog (and others) as your media to satisfy your lusts as you accuse Dr. Caner of for using a pulpit for personal gain.

Sin is sin, whether it be lying or gossiping or crying foul without talking with the one you cry foul about.

Bennett Willis said...

It seems that no one who might write about the discussion has been able to talk with Dr. Caner. And we all know that bloggers write about EVERYTHING. This is what they do.

I suspect that the committee from LU will talk with him though. And in due time, they will write about the talk.

Bennett Willis

Anonymous said...

anon 12:23

My overarching reason for commenting at all (which is not gossip since the man is a public figure and has made public declarations) is to warn professing Christians of religious deception and false affections concerning their souls. That is my main drive. So......

I am not rallying anyone or fulfilling any lusts. I only love truth, and despise to see it massacred in the streets. I hate to see the enemies of the LORD, and His Christ, blaspheme His Holy name because of hypocrites in the professing church.

Your theology is wrong if you think a truly saved person can live in a state of perpetual sin.

I am a man that was deceived about his salvation, returned to my old sins(note: I did not play the hypocrite only the fool), was disciplined by my church, reaped the whirlwind, but am now saved by grace. So I am sad for Mr. Caner, as I know that his sins, if not repented of, will destroy him.

I am not surprised that you posture yourself in such a way as I am aware of the milquetoast "Christianity" of the modern day that minors on the majors, and has rightly earned the title--"evanjellyfish." Let's face it, in this age of apostasy, GOD is allowing many to be filled with their own ways.

Jonathan

Anonymous said...

"My overarching reason for commenting at all (which is not gossip since the man is a public figure and has made public declarations) is to warn professing Christians of religious deception and false affections concerning their souls."

Public figure or not, gossipers speak of the faults and failings of others, or reveal potentially embarrassing or shameful details regarding the lives of others without their knowledge or approval. Even if they mean no harm, it is still gossip.

You can call it what you want, paint it any pretty color you desire but it is still gossip. I understand the need to say it is not gossip.

Where does scripture give any of God's children the right to belittle anyone, for any reason to someone other than the person of topic?

In the 1 Cor. passage you use, note v.5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

It clearly teaches that the man in question is living in habitual sin and should be delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saves in the day of the Lord Jesus

This habitual sinner will lose his physical life but because he is a part of the church *God's family", his spirit will live forever.

You do believe v. 5, don't you?

Anonymous said...

Cont

"3 - You are rallying troops of outsiders to join you in your lynch mob, regardless of some of the words you use, you are not loving Dr. Caner. You are more interested in exposing him than seeing him repent."

Obviously he has had 9 years to be convicted of his sins and repent but has not. Even when made public he has not repented but gone to great lengths to pull info off the internet that condemns him. Changed his bio several times, etc.

You seem to think love means covering over sin so there are never consequences. Brush it under the rug and pretend it did not happen. What about love for all the people he lied to and made money off of while lying to them?

The guy is a fraud and if we love truth, we will let everyone know so they will not go down in the pit with Liberty.

No loyalty to a man. Loyalty to Christ.

"1 Corinthians may apply to this situation but not the way bloggers are using it to have their own desires met. James 1."

So now you know the desires of people's hearts you have never met? You equate blogging about obvious lies of an evangelist as hate? You sound like Obama. You have no clue about the truth in the Word. You are not helping Caner but standing in the way of the Holy Spirit while Caner's heart is hardening.

"You are as guilty as using this blog (and others) as your media to satisfy your lusts as you accuse Dr. Caner of for using a pulpit for personal gain."

Lust for what? Like Caner is it lust for celebrity? Money? Influence? Lusts are what has brought Caner these problems!

"Sin is sin, whether it be lying or gossiping or crying foul without talking with the one you cry foul about."

How is it gossip to talk about what is public? Caner's own words! He loved everyone talking about him when they were fawning over him, buying his books and paying him to speak.

You seem to like James so let's take a closer look:

1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. James 3


You also seem to be under the sin of partiality. You cannot see the problems because you are enamoured with Caner. You are following blind guides. Shame on you. You should follow Christ...not some man.

Duke

Anonymous said...

"No but it is clear that Paul was addressing the church where that person was a part of."

Paul was not a "member" of that church. Since we should not believe in Apostolic succession, what do you make of that. And that church had overseers who did nothing. That is why Chloe's people sought out Paul.

These responses about the local church control are a cop out. There were no para church organizations or seminaries in the 1st Century. But we now have tons of them. If the person is not disciplined by their local church (Caner preaches at TRBC) then what?

Others are not allowed to speak out even though Caner is a national platform Evangelist? He certainly has no problem taking money from those outside his "local church" for speaking engagements, books, etc.

" It is clear that Paul was not making this person who was saved but living lost (carnal) a subject for the entire world to criticize and mock."

You cannot be serious. This is just basic ignorance. This letter was not only passed around to other churches but published in the Word for folks to read about for 2000 years. Caner obviously loved celebrity and did quite a bit to get his name out there. He brought this on himself. Now, it is a sin to speak of his lies? Sorry friend, you are being silly.

Now, on the other hand, if 1 Corin 5 is followed by Liberty or TRBC...how exactly are they going to keep it a secret (local church issue) since Caner make himself a national "Christian" celebrity?

Are you familiar with basic logic? Seems not. They certainly do not teach it anymore.


"Some problems with your use of 1 Cor. 5.

1 - You are not Paul"


So, this would mean we are not to carry out any counsel he gives in scripture because we are not Paul. Where do you people learn this stuff? Please tell me you are not a Liberty student.

"2 - You are not going to the people responsible over Dr. Caner."

The people responsible for Caner are going along with him and protecting him. One of them even said his lies were not a "moral or ethical" problem. And they give folks "theological leverage". Can you explain that last one to me? Seems Caner fit in well at Liberty where there is little integrity at the top.

Are you saying this makes it ok? Because of their titles? That the thousands he has spoken these lies to have no right to know they were lied to?

Cont

Lin said...

"Your theology is wrong if you think a truly saved person can live in a state of perpetual sin."

I hope everyone will put this on their bathroom mirror. It is truth. Read 1 John.

Dr. Fill said...

http://blog.au.org/2010/05/13/faith-based-fibber-liberty-u-seminary-president-accused-of-fabricating-life-story/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AUblog+%28The+Wall+of+Separation%29

http://www.alternet.org/immigration/146797/christian_right%27s_favorite_muslim_convert_exposed_as_jihadi_fraud

Anonymous said...

Speaking of a bad influence Judas was with Jesus for 3 years daily even carrying the cloak of the "new birth", however he was not a Christian. Many of those who think they are because they are Americans, belong to the Baptist church, go where mommy and daddy did, got baptized, are going to be rejected. They never repented of their sin, they never turned in a new direction. Preachers are one of the biggest REASONS in our country's demise. Why do you think its called the Laodicean church age? The pastors have left the first love....teaching and believing the Bible. Its all about self...its that simple. Until there is real revival its all downhill. Matt is right, get out why you still have a chance of getting SAVED!!! ONCE YOU GET OUT OF SOME OF THOSE BUILDINGS AND BEGIN YOUR OWN BIBLE STUDY THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL YOU RECOGNIZE WHATS REALLY IN THE BIBLE!!!!DON'T WAIT ON SOMEONE ELSE TO TEACH YOU STUDY IT YOURSELF. THATS WHY WE HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO LEAD US TO ALL TRUTH!!!!

Dee said...

Anonymous, 1:23 said
" but it is clear that Paul was addressing the church where that person was a part of. It is clear that Paul was not making this person who was saved but living lost (carnal) a subject for the entire world to criticize and mock. He was keeping it a church matter. Yes, he knew the talk was out and about but there is no indication he joined that group of gossipers but went directly to the church".

Anonymous, it was recorded for all time in the Bible what that guy did.This is telling about the situation on a big time scale. Our blogs will cease when we go home to be with the Lord or sooner. But, the Bible lasts forever and so will the story about that man.

It seems to me that Paul was saying "Expose this nonsense and stop it now!" So are we.

Also, let me get this straight. Only Paul can confront people about immorality because he was Paul? Isn't he supposed to be our example? Egads! This is a new form of Biblical interpretation. We can't do anything Paul did because we aren't Paul

This sort of convoluted thinking seem to occur when people are trying to defend the indefensible.Caner is a liar. He came to the US when he was 4 and tried to pawn off some silly story that he was trained as a jihadist on an unsuspecting and gullible (me, included) Christian populace.And we can't say anything because we aren't Paul?

Well, sir, you are no Howard Hendricks when it comes to Biblical exposition.

Anonymous said...

"You also seem to be under the sin of partiality. You cannot see the problems because you are enamoured with Caner. You are following blind guides. Shame on you. You should follow Christ...not some man."

You have no idea where I stand on the caner situation and this forum is not the place for me to share it. i am speaking to those here about their behavior here. I am not talking to others about you, nor will I. I have a problem with you, I bring it to you. Now that's a novel idea.

But, no... you are willing to talk down about Dr. Caner and not too him. I know you have some self-spiritual reason to blab ugly speak for the world to see while refusing to speak to the one you disagree with.

So like Christ ----NOT.

Anonymous said...

"It seems to me that Paul was saying "Expose this nonsense and stop it now!" So are we."

Not a problem but who was he speaking too. Paul did not write his letter for the universe to see. He was writing to the church under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and God gave it to us. This blog is not scripture inspired.

"Also, let me get this straight. Only Paul can confront people about immorality because he was Paul? Isn't he supposed to be our example? Egads! This is a new form of Biblical interpretation. We can't do anything Paul did because we aren't Paul"

You are not confronting people, you are talking about someone whose presence is not in the room. You are talking to people who have no authority over Dr. Caner but you want to be the people who see Dr. Caner fall hard.

There is nothing Christian about speaking out about someone without ever speaking to that someone. especially a fellow Christian. Of course you and many find you way around that by claiming he is lost.

Is it fun playing God?

Anonymous said...

"Not a problem but who was he speaking too. Paul did not write his letter for the universe to see. He was writing to the church under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and God gave it to us. This blog is not scripture inspired."



Anon,Pauls letters may have been initially written to the church of that day.
But they have now been universally read through out history by unbelievers as well.


"You are not confronting people, you are talking about someone whose presence is not in the room. You are talking to people who have no authority over Dr. Caner but you want to be the people who see Dr. Caner fall hard."



Again Anon your misguided.

The Apostle Paul wrote and responed concerning the young man in Corinth who was sleeping with his stepmother without ever meeting him.(hearsay huh?)

Most of 1st and 2nd Corinthians is written in response to concerns sent to Paul(hearsay)?

Anonymous said...

"Paul did not write his letter for the universe to see."

Then why is it in the scripture for the universe to read for 2000 years? Are you saying that was never intended?

Anonymous said...

"The Apostle Paul wrote and responed concerning the young man in Corinth who was sleeping with his stepmother without ever meeting him."

Writing who, for what purpose?

Writing the church to have him removed from the church.

How does writing what you write on this blog and others have anyone over these blogs have Dr. Caner removed from his place? It doesn't. All it does is creating a breeding ground for those who lust after such things.

Anonymous said...

How does writing what you write on this blog and others have anyone over these blogs have Dr. Caner removed from his place? It doesn't. All it does is creating a breeding ground for those who lust after such things.

May 14, 2010 3:42 PM

Why is this about having him removed? Is that what you think about? Winning? What about souls perishing? What about liars pretending to be evangelists?Telling their lies to make their testimony more exciting which means it is really about THEM. NOT THE LORD.

OH Yes, it should be kept secret. And only the big wigs who support Caner should be allowed to talk about a celebrity evangelist who lied about his background. John was in huge sin for writing about Diotrephes in a letter for all to read for 2000 years. He must have been lusting to do that.

You see, this is one reason you people have no credibility anymore. We are on to you. You want to sweep the sins of your idols under the rug. Never mind the thousands he lied to and they believed him! Never mind his heart is hardened and his soul is in peril. Even the souls of those at LIberty are in peril. Celebrity with a Christian man conferred title mean nothing. Ever read Matthew 7?

So, the real sinners in your view are those who discuss this on blogs. See, we know most of Christendom is fake. Most of it is about personal ambition, influence, wanting to Lord it over others and money. It has NOTHING to do with Jesus Christ and EVERYTHING to do with the flesh.

If discussing this means ONE person turns away from this shallow idol worship, it is worth it. Christ alone. Do not follow man. And do not protect liars who make merchandise of the Gospel.

They cannot operate if they have no financial support.

Your posts are nothing but red herrings and using the tactics of the celebrities who get caught. Those tactics do not work anymore. Sorry.

Anonymous said...

"ou have no idea where I stand on the caner situation and this forum is not the place for me to share it. "

Sure we do. It is obvious. Nice try, though.

Anonymous said...

"You are not confronting people, you are talking about someone whose presence is not in the room. You are talking to people who have no authority over Dr. Caner..."

His "authorities" are investigating him. Of course, I am not naive enough to think they had NO idea one of their big players was embellishing his bio for 9 years.


"
but you want to be the people who see Dr. Caner fall hard."

If it will save him from the Lake of Fire, it is the most loving thing that can happen to him.

Anonymous said...

Whoever you are that support and defend pastors that lie, especially in the pulpit, you are either extremely naieve or unbelieveably compromising with Gods Word and Gods TRUTHS. Their will be NO LIARS IN HEAVEN! And that's the truth. GOT IT?

dee said...

Anonymous who says we are not Paul

For your information, there was a visit made to the campus by a certain man from Georgia. Funny thing, soon after his visit, LU is
investigating.Information to be forthcoming.

As for us not being inspired , I have been amazed at how unrelated bloggers, all over the country, picked up on this story, and many of them independently. I believe that God is at work in this and is allowing his "priesthood of the believer" to function as such.

Just as the Gutenberg Press was a method that was used by God to start the Reformation; perhaps the Internet is also being used to start a Reformation today.

Methinks that you are quite upset that a man you admired is just a sinner like the rest of us. He has absolutely no business being the head of a seminary when he is, what appears to be, a pathological liar (meaning he lies even when he doesn't need to lie)To quote a man from Georgia, we follow Christ, not man.

Finally, some of us are investigating the taser stunt that Caner loves. We are quite suspicious that the truth was stretched there as well. Information to be forthcoming.

starrstruck said...

But the more I think about this, he did have to lie. His understanding and presentation of the basics of Islam is woefully inadequate. In order to become an expert on Islam, he had to enhance his Muslim identity. But his attempts at explaining Islam would be akin to an ex-Christian making the following statements about Christianity:

A key verse for Christians is Bible 3:15.
The Lord’s Prayer, “The Lord is my shepherd,” was foundational to my prayer life.
The Eucharist is a depiction of how a believer is baptized into the body of Christ.
Before we listened to the sermon, we sang verses.
The Lord’s lunch is celebrated weekly or monthly in the churches.

Ergun does not know what he is talking about. If an ex-Christian stated the above, he would be laughed at. If he presented himself as an expert in Christianity, he would be soundly ridiculed. So the more I think about it, Ergun Caner had to lie in light of his abysmal knowledge of basic Islam. So there is a fourth area in which he lied – what he knew about Islam. Sad.

But then, here comes Norm Geisler and John Ankerberg to the rescue. Geisler claims that Caner has been libeled and slandered. Ankerberg claims that Caner’s testimony is completely true. Both claims are completely and utterly false. Caner has not been libeled or slandered. He has been caught frabricating his background and knowledge of Islam. Caner’s testimony is so twisted that Ankerberg’s defense of Caner brings his own credibility into question. So is this what it means to be an apologist for Jesus Christ? Disregard the truth when lies have been uncovered? This is nothing but Christians acting badly for the sake of their money-making name brands. Just ask Mehmet.

So why are Geisler and Ankerberg covering for Caner? Could it be because they have a stake in the lies? Caner claims to have debated Abdul Saleeb. Geisler and R. C. Sproul have coauthored books with Abdul Saleeb. Ankerberg has coauthored books with Caner. There is a lot of money to be made in those books. But the real question remains, who is Abdul Saleeb? What if he is pseudonym? Or, worse yet, what if he doesn’t even exist? If Caner can fabricate his testimony, why can’t Geisler and Sproul fabricate an Arab convert? It is quite possible that the Caner lies are only the tip of the iceberg.