"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Wednesday, June 9, 2010

Some Reflections on the 400th Post by the Watchdog

This blog post marks the 406th posting by the Watchdog over the past 3 years. The 400 post mark is not a particularly important milestone (I intended to make THIS the 400th post but events at Trinity in NH put this off), but I thought I would reflect on the importance that I think blogs and the Internet now play in American evangelical Christianity. I'm sure my thoughts here will make the blood boil of my detractors, but I'm used to that by now. And as some pastors like to say about their sharp words troubling the pew sitters: it just tickles ME pink to know that my words get under pastors' skins! Amen? Amen!

My blogging experience over the past 3 years has been one I might characterize as a spiritual journey of sorts.

As I became concerned over events at my church starting in 2006 under new leadership, I thought that issues troubling me at my church were more local, or isolated to my particular church and its leadership, but soon found out they were just a glimpse of the larger problem within evangelical Christianity. I was a member at FBC Jax for many years, and I saw things that I thought I would never, ever see in my church - that I have blogged about here over the past several years.

So I started a blog. A place where I could raise the consciousness of my fellow church members, to get them to think more deeply about abuses at the church that I thought needed to be answered by the leadership - and a place where people could discuss these issues anonymously if they desired, without fear of reprisal from church leaders.

And my oh my, how my church leaders didn't like my blog and others' blogs. Mega church leaders generally have a fear of any blog that is critical of preachers. Critical blogs are viewed as sin, evil, attacks. Perhaps it is because pastors can't control the messages on blogs - blog posts don't have to be approved by the preacher and his marketing team before being published; and pastors can't keep their donors, er, I mean their sheep - from reading the blogs. So many have sought to shut down, influence, intimidate - even pass resolutions - to get blogs shut down or bloggers discredited - and it has only served to create more blog writers and more blog readers.

As much as celebrity preachers say they love the First Amendment, and want their religious speech protected - their own actions and resolutions show that they want it for themselves, but not so much for the lay person in their church. Preachers love to criticize culture, other faiths, even blast other preachers and denominations with which they disagree - but a lay person analyzing and criticizing THEM - well, that is "sin" in their eyes. And must be stopped.

For a good portion of my three years I blogged anonymously. Yes, the "coward" anonymous blogger, "the coward that he is" as I was affectionately called by one of my dearest fans. I am amazed in this day and time that people still take issue with people's desires to blog anonymously. History tells us how harshly critics of church leadership have been treated. Those who speak about unpopular ideas, or who criticize, especially harshly criticize powerful, religious people, are treated worse than infidels or criminals by church leaders. Even those who seek to expose sexually abusive pastors - they are told their blog is sin because it casts a negative light on the church and on "God's man".

But as I continued to blog about matters at my church, now not anonymously but still under the WD pseudonym, and as I read other blogs and participated in other discussion forums, I realized that the concerns I had at my church, were not just local issues that arrived with the new pastor and leadership team: rather they were more symptoms of larger problems in the Southern Baptist Convention and even evangelicalism as a whole. My blog posts sometimes dealt with what was happening at FBC Jax in the context of what was happening or had already happened at other SBC churches.

God is using these blogs, I believe, for many purposes, one of which is a cleansing of sorts of His church, as the abuses and lies of religious leaders are being exposed, and the laity is being educated as to what really is going on in their church - just as was done in the days of Martin Luther.

God used Luther and the printing press to accomplish His will.

Today, blogs and discussion forums are today's new "printing presses" that are allowing for a Reformation of sorts to take place. [the gnashing you hear are the pastors' teeth as they read this]. Lay people who are no longer just sitting and soaking and forking over 10% so their church can do what they want with the dough with no accountability to the sheep. They want transparency and openness and won't settle for pastors taking over their churches and running them like the CEO of a profit-making enterprise with parishioners and converts viewed as a market to be tapped.

Lay people can examine documents and video and audio of celebrity pastors to see if they are liars in the pulpit - if they make up grand stories, or if they lie about their detractors.

Celebrity preachers can no longer embellish their testimonies or outright lie to their congregations for fear that they will be exposed.

Church leaders who try to cover abusers in their midst, protecting their pastors and their church reputation by accusing the victims or sweeping allegations under the rug - have a much harder time these days as they know their story can be put up on the Internet for all to see.

A prime example of the power of blogs - and why pastors have passed resolutions condemning blogging - is seen in the current Ergun Caner scandal. As much as very powerful men in the SBC who were behind his rocket-launch to instant SBC stardom wanted this issue to just go away and be swept under the rug, bloggers wouldn't allow it to happen. I personally was disgusted to go back and hear Caner's FBC Jax sermon from November 2001 and compare his statements to public documents showing some of his claims to the FBC Jax faithful about himself to be false. I was glad that this blog was used to expose the contents of that sermon - within hours of me realizing what I heard, the excerpts from that sermon were published for all to hear.

So where am I at in this journey of religious blogging? I will continue on. I am a Christian, I love the Lord and I still committed to the Southern Baptist Convention and all they have theologically stood for over the years. I will continue on as a Christian blogger. But I am sad to see what is happening to the SBC at the hands of the new breed of mega church pastor - and I therefore will continue to blog about these issues in evangelical Christianity every chance I get.

I also in due time will have more to say about my past year and a half and the coming year in the legal battles I have fought and am continuing to fight. It will be an interesting tale for sure, and there will be likely many more twists and turns and setbacks - and hopefully some victories - but whatever the outcome I fully intend to tell this part of my story when this long legal process runs its course.

Meanwhile, I'll blog about issues of interest to me, about issues that I am very passionate about in evangelical Christianity, and my journey into blogging will continue.

49 comments:

Mike DeLong said...

This basic topic is much on my mind but I haven't yet come to any conclusions.

I've heard religious historians complain that prior to a certain point there are no religious historians, because anybody who wrote about what was going on in their particular movement described it exclusively as a movement of the Holy Spirit and lacked the interest or maybe the capacity to see what they did any other way.

I've heard religion reporters complain that preachers have such poor relationships with the media because they see reporters as conduits for getting their message out, and don't want to engage in dialog, answer questions, etc. about anything.

And (much less significantly) I'm amazed how the status updates from preachers on my Facebook friends list typically differ from updates from everyone else. Most of them fall into one of two groups: the declarers/proclaimers who could be replaced with a bot and nobody would notice, and the careerists who talk endlessly about how they're jetting here and there to declare and proclaim.

I don't know what conclusions to draw from this; at my most gracious I guess I would conclude that most preachers genuinely think they are serving God, so they're not really engaging in self-promotion, despite appearances to the contrary.

Anonymous said...

Keep blogging dog. We will keep reading. And commenting. :)

Thy Peace said...

Amen.

I sincerely thank Pastor Mac Brunson, for without him, I would not have found FBC Jax Watchdog blog and from there the rest of SBC blogosphere.

Yes, it was Mac Brunson who caused interest in me to search out this blog. I have a bad habit of re-listening sermons and I heard numerous times from Mac Brunson lips that bloggers were attacking pastors. I ignored his comments for a long time, and then I finally took the bait.

And the rest is history.

Just as for WD, it is also for me both an educational and spiritual growth for me. The biggest and brightest find of my discovery into SBC blogs was Pastor Wade Burleson blog, Christa Brown's blog, Tiffany Croft's blog, Cindy Kunsman's blog, Debbie Kaufman's blog, News BBC Open Forum Blog, and recently James White and Tom Chantry blogs.

So thank you Pastor Mac Brunson. But for your complaints and criticisms of bloggers, I would not have discovered this blog world.

Thanks WD for blogging. God bless you and your family.

QueenKnitter said...

I just discovered your blog this week due to the Trinity debacle. Even pushing those two words like that together makes me shudder, and when i think what's behind it all . . . awful.

As I've poked around a little here and now read this "ebenezer" post, I want to pat you on the virtual back and encourage you. This is good work. This is God's work. Yes, it's prophetic work. So keep on keeping on. Jesus and Paul did the same as you.

I have a bit of a whistle-blower blog too. And I'm taking a blog 'sabbath' at the moment while I heal from the battle. Ours is a lonely job. . . .

@Mike -- I have a Ph.D. minor in religious history, and what you describe is very, very typical for a particular iteration of American Protestantism, but it is by no means across the board for all religions or even all Christians. Those traditions that sprouted out of revivalism, however, are just as you describe -- desperately trying to appear ahistorical and always "present."

It's weird, and it makes a historian's job very, very difficult.

Anonymous said...

"So thank you Pastor Mac Brunson. But for your complaints and criticisms of bloggers, I would not have discovered this blog world.

Thanks WD for blogging. God bless you and your family."
=================================

Thy Peace,
I too 2nd your comments! Amen & Amen!

Anonymous said...

Watchdog, you are doing a magnificent job and we are all indebted to you for your couragous stand. Prior to paper it was scrolls. You are correct in regards to the internet...it is the Great Equalizer. Keep up the good work because you will not go unrewarded in your task. God bless you and your family.

Anonymous said...

Blogging equals Gossip! We can spread falsehoods, lies, and embellish stories on a Blog like this while out of the other side of our mouth, we denounce the Pastors that inadvertenley do it. It seems that even after your 400th Post, you have taken upon yourself the role of "Judge and Jury." I never hear anyone speak of how they confronted these Pastors with these issues....these Pastors must be guilty....I mean, after all, why would anyone falsely accuse them....WAKE UP PEOPLE....SATAN IS THE ACCUSER OF THE BRETHERN!!! This Blog and others like it are an indication of the last days in which we are living---"in the last days,there will be scoffers".... hey my friends,if the shoe fits....

Bennett Willis said...

Thinking about Tom's journey, I can see several advantages to blogging under a blog name. To me the biggest one is that when the anonymous commenters try to scald you, you can just not feel obligated to take it so personally as if they called you by your right name. This is a huge advantage while you are getting used to being responsible for all the wrong thoughts in the FBCJ world. And it carries over after you are outed and the same anonymous commenters continue their usually ill thought out commentary. By that point, WD was tough--at least I hope he was. :)

Dr Who said...

ANON June 9 7:56 You said....

___________________________________ Anonymous said...

Blogging equals Gossip! We can spread falsehoods, lies, and embellish stories on a Blog like this while out of the other side of our mouth, we denounce the Pastors that inadvertenley do it.

It seems that even after your 400th Post, you have taken upon yourself the role of "Judge and Jury." I never hear anyone speak of how they confronted these Pastors with these issues....these Pastors must be guilty....I mean, after all, why would anyone falsely accuse them....WAKE UP PEOPLE....SATAN IS THE ACCUSER OF THE BRETHERN!!! This Blog and others like it are an indication of the last days in which we are living---"in the last days,there will be scoffers".... hey my friends,if the shoe fits....

-----------------------------------
Evidently you DO NOT know the Doug Pittman story against many deceptive pastors in GA and the GA Baptist Convention and those within "the Baptist Mafia'.

He confronted and confronted and confronted and still confront them, even face to face

Leave your name and he may confront you.....

Bet ya won't!

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Anonymous said...

I've read alot of your posts the last 3 years but have yet to see you use any Scriptural basis for your blogging. You're right to denounce the child / sexual abuse.

But it is sad that you hate Mac Brunson. Yes I said hate, because the Bible says that Love keeps no record of wrongs and it you have a list of what you consider wrongdoings by Mac Brunson on your blog.

You also are too sarcastic and no where close to fair and balanced in your blogging. And are you really comparing yourself to Martin Luther? Seriously?

No true pastor delights in hurting their congregation. Just like no lay person should delight in being critical of their pastor.

It looks like Ergun Caner made a lot of mistakes, the funny thing about that is so have you and so have I.

I have a hard time imagining you standing before Jesus whenever you go to Heaven and explaining to Him how nobody listened to you at FBC Jax and how you just had to start a blog to defend yourself and throw Brunson under the bus.

There's a lost and dying world out there. They will burn in Hell for eternity if we don't take the Gospel to them. They won't find salvation by you blogging about what you do and don't like.

I know you won't post this but I really don't want you to, just read it

Anonymous said...

WD, I have followed your blog for months, and you have opened my eyes to much in evangelical Christianity. I left my evangelical church after comparing the practices I was uneasy about in it with ones you highlighted at FBCJAX and others: an emphasis on marketing over substance, a depersonalization of clergy, materialistic motives and borderline spiritually abusive practices. I now attend a mainline church (never, ever thought I'd be doing this) that is more true to scripture and NT Christianity than the evangelical church I had been attending. Keep on shining the light, WD. I'll be reading.

Anonymous said...

Blogging equals gossip? That's like saying telephones equal gossip.

WishIhadknown said...

“No true pastor delights in hurting their congregation.”

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is kind of the point.

No true pastor delights in hurting his congregation. Actually, it is not his congregation; the congregation belongs to Jesus. He is the congregation’s pastor; it is not the other way around. The belief that the congregation is the pastor’s is a lot of what is wrong with the SBC churches today.

Five years ago, I never would have believed I would see what is happening today.

How can it be right for a pastor, in the name of making a congregation “my congregation,” to cause division in a church that result in about half of the members leaving? Please tell me, how is that right? There are no words to describe the pain that has been inflicted.

What about some of the rest of the love verses? Verses like “love is kind” and “love is not self seeking.”

It terms of keeping a record of wrongs I am reminded of the story of the men discussing their wives and about how their wives reacted when they disagreed.

One man said, “I hate it when I get into a fight with my wife, she always become historical.”

The other man corrected the first man by saying, “Don’t you mean hysterical?”

“No,” the first man replied, “I mean historical, every time we fight; she brings up everything I have ever done wrong.”

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:06. All believers are pastors. We all have missions and you shouldn't be so critical of the watchdogs ministry. He has an open mind. Please use some biblical references when you critique his blogs so we can review. There are a lot of people reading this blog around the world and it is making a difference. Sometimes the truth hurts, but it is refreshing to hear the other side speak up. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:30. So true. How about the beauty shops, the e-mails, postcards, letters, circulars, and most importantly the coffee breaks and one on one anywhere. Have a great day.

Anonymous said...

Blogging equals gossip? That's like saying telephones equal gossip.

June 9, 2010 11:30 PM


Or, like saying that pulpit's equal lies

Anonymous said...

"But it is sad that you hate Mac Brunson. Yes I said hate, because the Bible says that Love keeps no record of wrongs and it you have a list of what you consider wrongdoings by Mac Brunson on your blog."

The fact that you cannot see the wrongs and that he is a wolf says a lot about you. You will answer for being so biblically ignorant and supporting a wolf.

Perhaps you can show us the scriptural basis for Mac using the civil authorities to go after a blogger. No, make that 3 bloggers. 2 did even go to his church.

We will all be waiting for that scripture....

Dr. Fill said...

Anonymouses June 9, 2010 11:06 PM, June 9, 2010 7:56 PM,
If you use your real names you might get invites to a ride in a pastors jet or a trip down the Danube. Just saying......

Anonymous said...

Whatever view you have on this blog or the Brunsons, I think we can all agree that a "a kind word turneth away wrath." And that the sweet and gentle nature of the Brunsons, and their humility, and their grace and mercy, will be evident when they finally get a chance to tell their stories to the court.

I can't wait for their depositions to be made public so all of you WD supporters, and the lawyers on both sides of these court cases, and ultimately a jury, will see for yourselves how loving, graceful, rational and kind they are to those who question them. :)

Anonymous said...

"But it is sad that you hate Mac Brunson. Yes I said hate, because the Bible says that Love keeps no record of wrongs and it you have a list of what you consider wrongdoings by Mac Brunson on your blog."
___________________________________

Then you and Brunsons must HATE Tom Rich. You are keeping track of his blog and his 16 sins and what he has said on this blog.

And you must not HATE pedophile pastors, and sexual abuser pastors, and charlatan pastors since you apparently don't keep any record of wrongs on them. ONLY the WD has been the beneficiary of the venom and vitriol of SBC leaders for his opinions on this blog.

Anonymous said...

The Dog is Luther - like?

Well he makes the comparison himself.

"God is using these blogs, I believe, for many purposes, one of which is a cleansing of sorts of His church, as the abuses and lies of religious leaders are being exposed, and the laity is being educated as to what really is going on in their church - just as was done in the days of Martin Luther.

God used Luther and the printing press to accomplish His will."


OK, Luther printed and passed out pamphlets on specific issues and problems but the major thought of each piece he put out which is missing in the Dog's work is Luther spoke of the fact that Christ had died for them and if they could have faith and believe, they could be saved.

Neither the Dog or his anonymous supporters are proclaiming the gospel of Jesus, just the gripes of the few.

Luther set out to reform the church, to help steer her back to God's design. I have yet to see that as important to the supporters here.

What you thought was self appreciating seems to be self depreciating.

Ben Patrick

Jim said...

Anon. 8:41, you said: "But it is sad that you hate Mac Brunson." You have got to be kidding! I have read WD for the past two years and have never seen evidence that he "hates" Mac or anyone else. I think it is safe to say he despises the lies, personal excess, and manipulation of people and the Bible that seem to be second nature to The Reverend Brunson, mega church pastors in general, and other Evangelical Christian leaders whose behavior has been exposed by bloggers. Every Christian should "hate" those qualities and challenge leaders who continually promote them as ministerial prerogatives. Thank God for Watchdog and others like him. I believe God is using them for great good.

Anonymous said...

"OK, Luther printed and passed out pamphlets on specific issues and problems but the major thought of each piece he put out which is missing in the Dog's work is Luther spoke of the fact that Christ had died for them and if they could have faith and believe, they could be saved.
"

No, he nailed 95 thesis on the CATHEDRAL door. In your face, he was. Have you read Luther? How he talked about corrupt priests? Obviously not.

Anonymous said...

"
Luther set out to reform the church, to help steer her back to God's design. I have yet to see that as important to the supporters here.
"

Luther wanted to reform the Catholic church. He did not go far enough. He still believed in state church and sacraments.

Why is what we are saying here different than Luther: Get out of these fake churches!

Mike DeLong said...

Q. Knitter --

You clearly know more about this than I do. I'd really like to pick your brain via email if possible.

Mike DeLong said...

I might gently suggest that Luther's treatment of his opponents is a cautionary tale, not an example to be followed.

Anonymous said...

might gently suggest that Luther's treatment of his opponents is a cautionary tale, not an example to be followed.

June 10, 2010 11:25 AM

Cautionary,how? You are always so cryptic in your comments here and at Wades. Why be so cryptic all the time?

Luther was going against the state/church.

How could the example be the same at all? Priests worked for the Pope who was both a civil and religous leader.

Kenneth said...

The fact that you cannot see the wrongs and that he is a wolf says a lot about you. You will answer for being so biblically ignorant and supporting a wolf.

Perhaps you can show us the scriptural basis for Mac using the civil authorities to go after a blogger. No, make that 3 bloggers. 2 did even go to his church.

We will all be waiting for that scripture....
________________________________

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

1. It's not your place to tell me that I will be judged for being biblically ignorant.

2. What exactly am I being biblically ignorant about?

3. If you would read my post again I didn't say I was for anything Mac Brunson was doing. Just because I don't like what WD is doing doesn't mean I'm for Brunson either.

4. Name Calling? i.e " biblically ignorant, wolf, etc...Seriously?

5 Personally, I think people who abuse children should be given the death penalty.

Anonymous said...

"No, he nailed 95 thesis on the CATHEDRAL door. In your face, he was. Have you read Luther? How he talked about corrupt priests? Obviously not."

Do you think that is all he did or all he wrote?

Have I read Luther? Yes. Much more then the 95 thesis. Have you? Doesn't sound like it.

Ben Patrick

Thy Peace said...

Some interesting posts on Wade Burleson's blog related to Martin Luther:

Proud Toward Sinners? You Are Utterly Damned -- THE CONDUCT TOWARD SINNERS THAT IS CHRISTIAN AND PLEASING TO GOD -- An extract from a sermon entitled "The Lost Sheep" by Martin Luther [JANUARY 16, 2007].

Preachers Who Act As If They Have No Personal Sin Preach a Milquetoast, Powerless Gospel [AUGUST 17, 2007].

Reformation the Goal of Every True Child of God [OCTOBER 31, 2007].

A Biblical Primer On Women in Ministry (Part 2) [MARCH 17, 2008].

Anonymous said...

Dr. Dog-

Words cannot express our sincere thanks for all your hard work and perseverance over these last several years!

Only you and your family can fully appreciate the personal and financial sacrifices you've made to shine the light!

Keep up the great work, and we'll be right there with you!

Johnny D. said...

Well, cousin, not sure what happened, but I wrote several paragraphs yesterday in response to this blog, yet, somehow, they didn't make it. So, let me try again.

I admire you, Tom. I would have given up long ago. In fact, I did. The corruption issues that you blog about DEFINITELY helped drive me to near-atheism.

I admire the way you stand up and do not quit in the face of unrelenting criticism. Sure, most of it is just terribly bad criticism, like some of the critics above me here. Yet, criticism can be withering after a fashion. And some of your critics...wow. I honestly have to wonder at what level some of these people function mentally? Where is their reasoning power? For example, what would drive an adult human to believe:

"It looks like Ergun Caner made a lot of mistakes, the funny thing about that is so have you and so have I."

Really? I always love the "Well we do it too, so let's not hold Caner responsible" argument. Good one. Why don't we just quit holding people responsible period? Lie, cheat, steal, whatever - do it all you want, because somewhere, somebody else has done it too. Yeah, they just don't make adult-reasoning power like they used to. But then, I'm not surprised. Look at our destroyed, unconstitutional bankrupt, run by a bunch of kleptocratic-plutarchs country we live in, and you get an idea of the voting brain-power out there - ergo the average American's reasoning power.

Nevertheless, I encourage you to carry on, Tom. I honestly do not know how you keep going, but I want you to know I do very much appreciate the example you have set here. It is likely that appreciation will harm your reputation by giving fuel to your haters, "See, an admitted atheist admires Tom - even calls him cousin! Let us put on our phylacteries and bejeweled breast plates of righteousness and tell the world of this transgression!" (Heh. Couldn't resist throwing in that last sentence in my modern-day Pharisee fantasy conversation.)

Be well, Tom. And may you always live in peace, and may the sharp, focused light of reason shine down upon your readers.

Anonymous said...

Unless you are in every point like Luther, you can't acknowledge any similarities at all.:)

Jim said...

Ben, I don't know where you received your Church History education, but if you learned there the tripe you posted, you should demand your money back. You were cheated. Try reading Luther. I recommend you start with his "Open Letter to Christian Nobility," then check out his "Letter to Pope Leo X" After that you can get into the hard-core Jesus stuff of his "Larger" and "Smaller" Catechisms. Yes, he was all about Jesus, but he left no stone unturned when telling the Church where he believed it was in error and expressing that concern to the wider community. To be sure, Watchdog is no Martin Luther; he has never claimed to be. However, he is taking to task the contemporary evangelical expression of the Church with a tenacity that would make Luther proud. In that, he is living out the words and work of Jesus.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Hi Johnny D - must have been a problem with the technology, I checked and no posts came through from you yesterday.

But glad to hear from you.

Thanks for the encouraging words, Cousin Johnny! Glad to call you a friend.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Thank you Thy Peace and QueenKnitter, I am greatly encouraged by your words!

Johnny D. said...

I was in a hurry yesterday, Tom, and I think the word verification must not have went through and in the rush, I closed it before really seeing what had happened. Anyhow, I've said the bit I wanted to say, and it is "on the big board!" I'm reading - you keep writing.

Mike DeLong said...

Nonnie --

Cautionary,how?

Let me offer this quote from Luther, translated into English, as related by Eric W. Gritsch in The Wit of Martin Luther:

Gently, dear Pauli, dear donkey, don’t dance around! Oh dearest little ass pope, don’t dance around dearest, dearest little donkey, don’t do it. For the ice is very solidly frozen this year because there was no wind you might fall and break a leg. If a fart should escape you while you were falling, the whole world would laugh at you and say, “Ugh, the devil! How the ass pope has befouled himself!”

Etc.

See also his comments referring to the Pope as "Antichrist."

Anonymous said...

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Who was Jesus talking to? The religious leaders. Please read in context...the Pharisees did not even bring out her "partner" in crime. How could she be "caught" in adultery alone?

Jesus knew they were trying to trip him up. He knew they were in SIN for what they were doing...not even following the REAL law in such matters.

From your misuse of this scripture would, it mean that NO pastor can preach about sin since they are sinners, too. No one can point out sin since they are sinners, too.

Is that what you are communicating here? That is biblical ignorance.

Anonymous said...

"Do you think that is all he did or all he wrote?

Have I read Luther? Yes. Much more then the 95 thesis. Have you? Doesn't sound like it."

Yep, even read his horrible rantings about Jews. And his defense of infant baptism.

Anonymous said...

"Do you think that is all he did or all he wrote?

Have I read Luther? Yes. Much more then the 95 thesis. Have you? Doesn't sound like it."

Yep, even read his horrible rantings about Jews. And his defense of infant baptism.

Anonymous said...

Nonnie --

Cautionary,how?

Let me offer this quote from Luther, translated into English, as related by Eric W. Gritsch in The Wit of Martin Luther:

Gently, dear Pauli, dear donkey, don’t dance around! Oh dearest little ass pope, don’t dance around dearest, dearest little donkey, don’t do it. For the ice is very solidly frozen this year because there was no wind you might fall and break a leg. If a fart should escape you while you were falling, the whole world would laugh at you and say, “Ugh, the devil! How the ass pope has befouled himself!”

Etc.

See also his comments referring to the Pope as "Antichrist."

June 10, 2010 7:20 PM

What exactly does this have to do with anything? Cryptic and vague. What does your quote relate to, specfically?

Anonymous said...

Here's a couple of thoughts that may open some eyes regarding church leadership. 1. Jesus called the Jewish leaders whited sepulchers which appear beautiful on the outside but are within full of dead men's bones. 2. I Peter 4:17 "For the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of God".

If we claim not to sin then we make God a liar as He says all men are liars, there is none good, no not one. That includes us all. It is regrettable that the church has brought the world into it rather than the reverse. The church has no power when flesh rules and I see that mostly going on, not only from this and other blogs, but watching some of these performers on television. No wonder the world is sliding into Hell faster than a snowball. Satan loves to have the brethren fighting among themselves as he goes to and fro from place to place. We need to forgive and forget and additionally get out of the ministry if we are in it for OURSELVES AND NOT JESUS. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Anonymous said...

All this discord among believers (I'm assuming believers) reminds me of the verse "A house divided cannot stand"; and a quote:
"To live above with those we love, oh, that will be glory! To live below with those we know, now that's another story!"

There are two sides to every story.
There is much arrogance, lack of integrity and use of the bully pulpit among a certain segment of SBC pastors today. That is wrong, wrong, wrong! And they should be held accountable. However, there are many pastors laboring in God's vineyards who are humble, shepherd-pastors seeking to do God's will and love His sheep (tho' some of us are not very lovable). The danger is some bloggers (and blog masters) are giving the impression that ALL pastors are corrupt. That is just as wrong as the very people they are pointing a finger at. We also need to remember Ephes. 6 that states the fact that our war is not against flesh and blood but against principalities and wickedness in high places, and the weapons of our warfare are our prayers! I sincerely wonder how many prayers are being offered up to God who is the only One who can bring healing to the SBC and our churches?

For those pastors who have not given into greed and corruption and are doing all they can to minister to God's people:
"And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. Be at peace among yourselves." I Thess. 5:12

Anonymous said...

"The danger is some bloggers (and blog masters) are giving the impression that ALL pastors are corrupt."

This sounds real good but are you suggesting that we must ignore the evil perpetuated by the celebrity pastors because there are good pastors out there who might be tainted if we talk about it?

So, what is your advice? Use a disclaimer each time we comment?

Anonymous said...

"This sounds real good but are you suggesting that we must ignore the evil perpetuated by the celebrity pastors because there are good pastors out there who might be tainted if we talk about it?"

Not at all! Those who are corrupt need to beheld accountable. We are not to enable them by remaining silent. That's the good that comes out of the blog sites.

However, we need to verbally acknowledge and support and pray for those pastors who are humbly walking with the Lord and seeking to care for His sheep. It's too easy for those good men to suffer from the fall out from the others.

And, yes, a disclaimer would be good every now and then.

Anonymous said...

A disclaimer now and then would be good.

Former FBC Insider said...

Good job Tom.
I'm proud to know you and call you friend.
I believe God has chosen you "for such a time as this".

Thanks for answering yes, to the call.