"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Thursday, June 17, 2010

And Now a Word from an Ergun Caner Defender, Liberty Grad

A few days ago, a poster by the name of "Craig" posted the comment below back on my "Ergun Caner is Coming to Jacksonville" post. It was such a good defense of Caner, I thought it a shame to have it buried in the comments. This Craig made an appearance on Debbie Kaufman's blog a few weeks back with his "vitriol".

I am deeply offended by Craig's words. Not because he used words to describe me like: vain, stooge, oozing, sowing discord, vicious, needing "friggin help", Kool-Aid drinker, pathetic loser, and breaking Christ's heart...I can take that, and I've been called worse on the blog and in depositions...but to call the Watchdog a FEMALE CAT-IN-THE HAT...them's is fighting words Craiger! I am deeply offended.

Besides, is not the Cat-in-the-Hat male? This is a slam on the integrity of the beloved character we all have grown up with.

So it is not FBC Jax Cat-in-the-Hat to you sir, it is FBC Jax Watchdog.

I have now registered http://www.fbcjaxcatinthehat.blogspot.com/ just in case you get any funny ideas, Craig.

Anyway, here is our message from "Craig" (which I did break up into paragraphs for easier reading, but the message is intact, in its entirety, unedited):

Hmmmm I wonder what the bible and the early church patriarchs would have to say about The Cat in the Hat here posting Caner's speaking schedule and then bullying the people in those church's...and those pastors...into "voicing their displeasure"? Could it be Mrs. Cat in the Hat, that you do not, in fact, know EVERY DAMN THING? Could it be that your opinion really doesn't matter to everyone in the world? I would ask you who the hell you think you are...but the answer would likely take endless paragraphs and I ain't got all day.

Face the facts...your vain attempt at derailing a man, his family, and his ministry have failed. You have been exposed as a stooge for a third rate nobody like James White who goes to bed each night with a mouthguard in place because he grinds his teeth at the mere thoughts of Ergun Caner being liked and accepted. What does it say about someone who virtually oozes her desire for approval from a man as clearly unbalanced as White?

You speak of Godliness and post parodies or an ordained minister. Like it or not, Ergun Caner is one of God's men and you MOCK him. You went beyond a call for "repentance" a long time ago. You want him gone so the object of your affection can rise to fill the void. The fact is James White is considered such a loon that no matter what happens to Caner or anyone else James White will NEVER EVER step into the mainstream. he is a fringe dweller. PERIOD. His followers are all just as fringe oriented.

Sowing discord within other churches is a sin against the Holy Spirit, Mrs. Cat in the Hat. Repent! I call on you to repent. And for God's sake will you please vacuum around that James' pulpit some more...or doesn't the cord reach all the way down the stairs into his mom's basement? I shall now enjoy the fact that you will pull random segments of this response out of context and stitch together a threat...you will send me vicious emails demanding my repentance...(which will make me laugh)...and tighty Whitey will probably blog about it in endless paragraphs...maybe even a small book.

You all need friggin help. Have a nice day on the compound mixing the kool aid...bunch of pathetic losers. Keep breaking Christ's heart...that'll win the lost.

Regards...

81 comments:

Thy Peace said...

Craig is a character. He proudly proclaims his South Philly heritage. I am from West Philly.

This is what he called me ...

It was posted by someone named "Thy Peace" (an odd name for a flesh picking cretin with ruthless devastation on the brain)

As usual Ergun Caner defenders are unable to apply reason. Instead it is all Ad hominem attacks.

Jim said...

When I see "Liberty Seminary" on a resume' my eyes glaze over and I prepare myself for whatever comes next. Sure Craig is a "character," Liberty graduates lots of characters. How can it not, the president is "Character in Chief."

Weezie said...

Wow. Hmmm, godliness just oozes off this one.

And, if'n I was his maw, I woulda made him eat some Purell for that dirty mouth.

Anonymous said...

Liberty University student and "friend" of Ergun Caner, Craig Daliessio

One Salient Oversight said...

Sowing discord within other churches is a sin against the Holy Spirit, Mrs. Cat in the Hat. Repent!

I always thought that sinning against the Holy Spirit was unforgivable. So why the call to repent?

Mark said...

Craig said

"I am embarrassed that this is how some practitioners of Christianity behave."

Irony?

Anonymous said...

Another glimpse of another Alumni of Liberty University - they sure know how to turn out bright and expressive students who study communication. (Ha)

Right, this individual is a character with a filthy mouth!

Keep it coming Watchdog - we're all here for you! :>)

Anonymous said...

I am a Liberty grad and proud of it! Dr Caner taught me a lot about integrity, honor, and truthfulness. He is a true Man of God that would NEVER do anything to dishonor the Lord!
It is very disheartening for me to hear him slammed on this blog. I think if you really know Dr. Caner, you would discontinue this attack on him.
He is kind and gentle and has a huge heart. He would NEVER deceive anyone and is incapable of any of the lies he is accused of.
Please, as a Christian, cease all the rancor about this godly Man and lets get back to reaching Muslims for Christ.

Anonymous said...

Since when does habitual lying make you a man of God? When Annanias (sp?) and his wife lied to the church in front of Paul, the Holy Spirit struck them dead!! No matter how you slice it or try to explain his words away, Caner LIED and continues to lie. Caner needs to repeat and ask forgiveness from a whole lot of folks, not the least are the non-Christians who are watching this debacle. What a wonderful, man of God and witness to the lost Caner is, NOT!!

CraigD2599 said...

FBC Jax...well done...Mia dispiaggio on the female cat in the hat reference...that was actually aimed at Debbie Kaufman who linked your hit piece on her thread of hit pieces. That's my little term of endearment for Ms. Kaufman who does such a yeoman's job carrying water for the fraudulent Mr. White.
Thy Peace...where did you strike the deal to get paid-per-use for the term "ad hominem". You work in that like a sculptor works in clay. To quote the great Inuego Montoya..."You keep saying that word...I do not think it means what you think it means". (There's your chum-slick little fishy...let's see if you bite) West Philly is for losers...everyone knows that. The last truly cool West Philly guy was Will Smith and there is one HUGE difference between you and the Fresh Prince...his ears are much larger. Jim...your eyes glaze over because you probably get tears of uncontrolled jealousy for not having attended a real seminary...you no...one with an actual campus and classrooms. Weezie...like godliness oozes off the BS you trowel out here, along with all the other mental midgets who still don't know when you have lost a fight? I wish you'd try that crap with my church is my pastor had someone coming to speak that didn't meet your pathetic approval...he slap a lawsuit on your miserable arse so fast your head would spin. What you are doing constitutes internet harassment and if I were Caner I'd have injunctions waiting for you. You make me sick. I seriously would love to run into a few of you in public...then back up and do it again. (That's a joke friends) I am thoroughly convinced, in all seriousness, that the lot of you care bot the least bit about evangelizing, (of course not...your "reformed") the stance of the Church in the community, the Biblical mandate to encourage and build up, nothing. You are incredibly, insanely jealous of Ergun Caner and of LBTS PERIOD. There can be no other reason for your collective heads coming unraveled at the mention of his name to the point that you now stalk his appearances. Why could you possibly care where he is speaking unless it's your own church. And then, is it an internet matter?
Listen...let me help you through this...I will play the role of Miss Jane and you can all be Romper Room kids and I will take my magic circle and I will pronounce to the world that I "See" you...because really...in the end...that's what you are really after. You want to stand out for five minutes. This isn't about Ergun this is about you. "Please notice me...not him!" You, Tighty Whitey, Debbie the Cat in the Hat, Abdul Jabaar from West Philly, all of you. So here we go...someone cue the happy music..."I see "Thy peace" and I see FBC Watchdog...and I see Debbie...and several anonymouses..."

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Craig - why do you call White "fraudulent"? Can you give a defense for your claim that he is fraudulent?

Why so angry? Why do you assume that people who see things the same as James White on this issue are carrying his water, or are his "stooges"? I had really never heard of James White until a few months ago when I started looking at the Ergun Caner evidence.

And can you tell me how you interpret Caner's words at FBC Jax, where I was a member, in November 2001, where he says he was "raised in Europe", and was "in Islamic Youth Jihad" and "trained to that which was done on 11 September"? Are those just instances of mispeaking?

I really would like to engage you in a conversation on this, but it seems you are too interested in attacking the people involved.

Please don't respond by attacking your list of people that you disagree with. Just answer the question above on Caner's comments at FBC Jax November 2001. Can you do that?

Anonymous said...

Well said Craig! We Liberty boys ain't takin' it no Mo!
This attack mentality is the spirit of the Anti-Christ and just Calvinist cowards!
You are messsing with the wrong group!
We are not going to allow Dr. Caner to be slung thru the mud and not come to his defense!
I have yet to see any evidence at all of his misdeeds and it is getting close to slander the allegations aganist this amazing Man of God!
PLEASE post his speaking schedule so those who love and support him can hear his awesome story of deliverance from being a Muslim jihadist!
We get knocked down but like Rocky we keep on getting up!!!!

Anonymous said...

RE: CraigD2599 said...

Give you credit Watchdog - you are fair and balanced to post this kind of rambling nonsense - think he's been drinking to much sauce - sounds like a man with a lot of anger and not able to manage himself, from my humble perspective.

David said...

Craig: What a go boy! You really told those SOB’s off didn’t you? But I have a question what about YOUR Christian witness? Bet you won a lot of lost souls with your vile, sick rant. And you wonder why the unsaved don’t want to have anything to do with your brand of “Christianity”. Who would if this is how you treat fellow brothers and sisters. Damn every one of them. I am right and all of them are wrong, why can’t they see that? Man you are just sick.

Oh for the law suit threat thing, you should go to law school first. These are just empty handed threats that NO court, even in liberal Philly would ever allow to proceed. Feeble attempts at intimation by a fool.

What about this? Let’s pray for your misguided brother/sisters? Hey that is a novel idea. Wonder where that came from. You reckon the Bible? Where did your rant come from?

One last thing I am a long distance student of Liberty. And I am ashamed of Caner’s behavior and expressed my concerns to him; though I did it in love and kindness unlike you.

You have good day, you sure made mine. I laughed so hard my sides are hurting. I have to go find some aspirins. Bye.

David Brown

drpenn said...

Craig - as usual - well said....true, funny, good stuff. And...anonymous LBTS supporter - HOOOO RAH!!! Ditto.

This has never been about the Calvinist Jihad seeking "truth" - it has always been about them seeking blood and destruction.

Friends - all - listen - some of this stuff *IS* funny. Lighten up.

Richard said...

Watchdog, I'm afraid that Craig will never answer your questions. He considers your questions "attacks." On Craig's own blog, which "Thy Link" so graciously provided above, on his June 10th post, there was ONE comment. A blogger named Keith simply stated, "Here is an idea for a blog: answer honestly and directly each of the issues Caner's critics have raised."

With the exception of Craig's propensity to violent thoughts ("Now all that is left for me to deal with is my anger and these visions of me using golf clubs for something other than golf." and "You make me sick. I seriously would love to run into a few of you in public...then back up and do it again."), I could almost hear Mac Brunson and Steve Gaines in his response to this very simple statement.

Craig's response was, "Keith, normally I don't allow attack comments but I made this exception because you raise a good point and I know others are asking this. The FACT is that the vast majority of those accusations have already been proven baseless by eyewitness accounts, and expert opinion from other former Muslims. What remains are minor items that do need to be addressed but not before the entire world. It's the method I hate, you see, because unlike you and your pals...I have no thirst for blood. Don't bother responding anymore because your comment won;t be permitted. There are plenty of "I Hate Ergun Caner" blogs for you and I'm sure you already know where they are. Best Wishes."

As of Friday morning as I post this there were no other coimments, and from this I must conclude that readership and interest in his blog are VERY low OR he doesn't allow comments that do not TOTALLY agree with him to be posted.

A simple statement or question is an "attack." Then there is the inferrence of "if you don't like it, get out!"

I truly hope Craig is NOT a shining example of the quality of graduate that Liberty puts out. He is scary.

Anonymous said...

Why does this type rancor receive any attention? If I were Caner I would be embarassed even further by this trash being spouted by a supporter. Is this the best Liberty has to offer? Definitely NOT CHRISTIAN language in my book.

David said...

Anon: don't worry I have forward to Caner the links to Craig's site as well as his comments made here on this site. Wonder what their reactions will be to him or will he consider their rebukes "attacks". Craig if you are going to throw the "bombs" you have been throwing expect a few of them to blow up in your face.

Oh I found my aspirins.

Thy Peace said...

If anyone notices, there is a pattern here. As in the comments of these people ...

Tim Rogers
Tim Guthrie
Peter Lumpkins
Craig
DrPenn (DianaRuth)

Of course we should also include the heavy weights here ...

Mac Brunson
Steve Gaines

Yes finally Ergun Caner.

I clearly see the pattern. Can you?

BibleWheel said...

CraigD2599 wrote "You are incredibly, insanely jealous of Ergun Caner and of LBTS PERIOD."

Wow - who can argue against such a profound insight? I admit it - I am incredibly jealous that Caner not only got $$$RICH$$$ on a decade of lies about his journey from Jihad to JEEZUS but he also gets to keep all his stolen $$$MONEY$$$ and prestige after getting caught red-handed! And besides all this, he gets to keep his seat as President of a "theological seminary" after being exposes as a fraudulent professor of "Islam" who spews out rank gibberish as if it were Arabic!

I admit it. Ever since I lost my old cash-cow con company ENRON I have been green with envy for successful lying godless swindlers like Ergun Caner. But now I see my error. I just need to rename my old company to SBC ENRON and cut LBTS in for 50% and I'll be in business again!

debbiekaufman said...

Dr. Penn, Craig: You are good with the false accusations that you have yet to prove, but yet there is iron clad proof staring you both in the face that as I repeatedly point out you cannot discredit no matter how hard you try. The press has yet to quote either of you. Why is that? Because they see you as simply skirting the obvious if they see you at all.

Fox reports Caner supporters are silent. Yet you are not. What does that tell either of you or Peter or Tim Rogers? Obviously they are not hearing you? :)

debbiekaufman said...

Craig says on his blog: "The FACT is that the vast majority of those accusations have already been proven baseless by eyewitness accounts, and expert opinion from other former Muslims. "

Where again? They did not ever confront the many questions and facts presented. They never addressed the issue. They attacked the messengers with accusations never proven but they have not addressed the countless proofs presented. Caner has been silent, Liberty is biding their time until the 30th, but in the meantime people and the press have already seen what we see. At this point it doesn't matter what Liberty finds, too many have already written on this, commented on this, and the answer is that we saw correctly. Ergun Caner did indeed falsify everything.

I have been conversing with a former Liberty student who sees it, those he discussed it with and shown the evidence see it, Joel Engle who has been with Caner was worship leader for a conference at Liberty , commented on my blog that he sees it. Huffington, Fox news,The Associated Press etc. see it. I could go on and on. The support I personally have recieved is overwhelming. Absolutely overwhelming to me. Support from all over the world.

CraigD2599 said...

Strive for accuracy please...When I said "I'd like to run into some of you and then back up and do it again...I finished by saying "I am joking" because you dorks have done that before...starting with King of Basement Dwelling dorks James "I got my doctorate through the mail order" White ("Tighty Whitey" as I have endeared him). That's what little children do ..."Mooooommmmmmm...Johnny said he want's to run me over!" Johnny actually said he'd like to run me over to the store to get some ice cream. Apparently you people are a race of vampires because your reflection is lost in all the mirrors in your homes. You do far worse than you accuse me of here. Posting parody videos of Ergun Caner is somehow acceptable but my mocking tone is not? Mmmmmmthat's hypocrisy. Yep.
It must be so horrible to be so collectively BORING as human beings. Seriously...who on God's green earth would want to be like any of you people? Sitting around all day thinking of clever things to say that fit into the Collegiate rules of debate and trying to drop the term "ad hominem" into a conversation as frequently as possible.
For the record... my blogs are not combative in nature so I don't get a ton of comments as it is. You failed to mention the comment from Yahya Snow (a muslim) questioning Ergun, that I posted and responded to. Of course you'd leave that out because it weakens your argument. What I do get are an enormous amount of private emails from people who have read my work and have felt their image of God healed by what I write...healed, in fact, from the screwed up image that tight-cheeked people like you have inflicted upon this earth for generations now. My divorced dads blog is the number one Google hit destination for it's category. My general blog has won awards as well. And my newest book broke into the top 5% on Amazon this week. So apparently a few people enjoy my gifts. Don't be jealous, not everyone can write beautifully.
Some people vacuum pulpits. Some hold doctoral degrees from unaccredited "seminaries" with nothing but a post office for an address. Others are so desperately hungry for their daddy's attention that they cling to a jealous, petty, dire, more-than-slightly over the rainbow "apologist" who exists on the fringe and who has no other real long term goal from the Caner attacks than to make people aware he is even alive on this planet.
For the record...I am older than Ergun Caner. I am not some fresh faced little kid who thinks he has all the answers and hasn't been through anything. (that would be Dan Spratlin) For the jagger who asked me how many "souls I won to Jesus" ...plenty. But I'm not keeping a log. The lot of you behave like candyassed little school girls who can't wait to race to the teacher on the playground and one-up each other on the "guess what HE did to me" scale. Grow up and bother with something really important. None of you attend LBTS, none of you attend a church where Dr. Caner is speaking, None of you have lost money because he stole your speaking gig or took shelf space at the local Lifeway and now your book is on the back shelf. (Because none of you have written ONE book much less mutliple) I was born in Philly, I lived there until I was 7, moved 14 miles away to Wilmington DE. My family, except for mother and stepfather, remained in Philly where I spent at LEAST half my time back and forth. Therefore I "grew up" in the Philly area. See how simple that is? When a man's father is from Turkey and he spends much of his time there even though he resides in America, he can rightfully say he grew up in Turkey. Unless, of course, none of you left your front yards for 18 years. Do any of you realize how stupid you look to the world at large? All you are doing is giving the unsaved world a great reason to tune you out.
Now if I only could...
Happy Fathers day to all the dads!

debbiekaufman said...

"I am a Liberty grad and proud of it! Dr Caner taught me a lot about integrity, honor, and truthfulness. He is a true Man of God that would NEVER do anything to dishonor the Lord!"

Yet he did. Have you even bothered to see all the evidence? I am sorry because I realize this is hard, but the fact is he is the last person to be teaching integrity, honor, and truthfulness when he has not done this himself. Not in representing Calvinism, not in his bio, not in dealing with this, not in anything. And that is deeply dishonoring to the Lord which is my exact point. It's not slamming when truth is brought out as it has been over and over for the last 4 months and longer. We should have seen it we did not. It took a very astute Muslim to show us. That is sad and spiritually telling. We as Baptists died spiritually a long time ago.

He is not a man of God, God does not lie. He is a man of Caner. Liberty. But not a man of God. I am sorry but those are the brutal facts anonymous.

Anonymous said...

WD and others-

We need to leave Craig alone and just stop using his material. Seriously. Consider his own words, and how they reflect his heart. Please just ignore him. Posts like this are just giving him more rope to hang himself. And he always does.
We need to show a bit more sympathy and compassion. (Yes, even though he may insult this comment and say he doesn't need it.)

D

debbiekaufman said...

No Craig, do you realize how stupid you look to the world at large? It's you who looks stupid and to even jokingly threaten is showing an unbalance that cannot be reasoned with. You are the one looking mighty silly and stupid Craig. Again it's as obvious as Caner's dishonesty.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad and prevalent in the Christian world of Baptists. It's that warrior, Onward Christian soldier mentality that is so unBiblical, unChristian and just plain wrong in any culture, both in the secular and Christian world.

debbiekaufman said...

D: Ignoring is not the answer. Confronting them is. To ignore is only going to make it worse. To confront and not walk away is a solution I am very comfortable with. Spiritual abuse has been ignored too long. It is this type of attitude that has empowered people like Craig not stopped them. Sorry but to tell me to push in my anger at people like Craig has been proven to be unhealthy for me. Both spiritually and physically. We have to do what we feel God leads us to do and I support Jax highlighting this and giving us a chance to get out what has been pushed down inside for far too long.

You may not like the exchange but it is necessary, especially for those of us who have put our heart and soul into this. We want honesty and integrity in Christianity again. It has been gone for far too long. And why? Because we have taken your suggestion. I am not going to do that anymore.

CraigD2599 said...

Debbie...you find me irresistible. It took you three separate comments to tell people not to comment. I LOVE how you wrote "unchristian and ungodly and used it as a descriptive of Baptists. See there is where your pathetically shallow mind has exposed itself. THAT is what you find so horrendous about Ergun Caner..he is a Baptist. This is a Crusade, fought on the internet. You're such a transparently feeble person Debbie. It's so sad...and I mean that. I really do pity you. For the record...I'm not a Baptist! I don't attend an SBC church or a church with Baptist in the name anywhere.
You are just so tremendously pathetic. It must be physically painful to be entrenched in a loveless, graceless passionless, joyless life. To have absolutely NO EARTHLY IDEA of the amazing depth of love and FREEDOM that Christ has supplied us in salvation. If you weren't so miserable and so mean spirited and such a rotten example of the love of God and so content with grieving the Holy Spirit. I'd only feel sadness over your condition. But since you attack my brothers in the faith so easily, (in the face of Johns command that our love for one another would be the FIRST SIGN OF SALVATION) I have to make myself not hate you and wish ill on you. You make me sick. The lot of you. Anyone (except the self deceived...like you) can see your heart in every word. A gang of self congratulatory idiots, feasting on the flesh of brothers in Christ and picking your teeth with the pages of bible verses you ignore. A pox on your houses.

Anonymous said...

I'm only anonymous because I dont want to take the time to sign-up/log in/etc. Here's the deal: Caner is a man...a sinner saved by grace. Just like me and you. None is better than another. You get in your pants the same way I get in mine and the same way Caner gets in his. None of us is righteous, no not one. We are ALL redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. I do things everyday, every HOUR that demand God's forgiveness and grace and mercy. Thankfully, He never gives up on me. I've retold alot of the same stories and jokes and tales in my lifetime and sometimes, I tell em one way and sometimes I tell em another. Sometimes I forget one part or another. SOMETIMES,,,I ADD things to the story...for real. I'm not even close to perfect. I've said all of that to say this:

LEAVE THE POOR MAN ALONE ALREADY!

He's admitted that some things got turned around, left out, messed up. GET OVER IT. Nobody is creating a "scandal", nobody is dying, nobody is making the ORDEAL out of it that you are. Nothing would make you happier than to see this bring an end to his ministry. WHY? WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO GAIN FROM THIS? Caner has a great influence on students at Liberty. He has a great ministry there. He has a precious young family that is being made to suffer through these attacks. WHY? WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO GAIN FROM THIS?
Let him who is without sin throw the first stone...I'm not even gonna get in line, myself...If I point out your sin to YOU, I have four fingers pointing out my sin BACK at me.
I'm just an "old married chick" with a couple of kids who realizes that God is good, I'm not perfect and THATS EXACTLY why I need my Savior each and every day. I mess up EVERY TIME I OPEN MY MOUTH. Caner is just a man. Enough already.

debbiekaufman said...

Anonymous: So in other words Caner can do as he wants and we are to forgive him? Where is that in scripture? Did Paul teach that? Did Christ when confronting the Pharisees? the answer is no, they did not. Your view is cheapening the Gospel, and it's not right. It's wrong. Very, very wrong. I pray that you do not actually believe what you wrote here because there is a Greek word for it. Bologna.

The problem is that you and people like Craig quote select pieces of scripture without having any idea what the Bible actually says. No anonymous in a word you are wrong, very wrong and it's why this kind of thing continues. Lying is a sin. Ergun has done this for 9 1/2 years publicly. It has rightfully been compared to Mike Warnke.

Craig: It's over buddy. The story is out. The media, and too many see the truth of what Ergun has done. You can rant, threaten, tell me that your books sell, which if people read this stuff you are now writing in comments should slow that down, but it doesn't matter. Basically it's over. For crying out loud even Iran is reporting this story. It's over The verdict is already in.

BibleWheel said...

Hey there Craig!

You wrote: Therefore I "grew up" in the Philly area. See how simple that is? When a man's father is from Turkey and he spends much of his time there even though he resides in America, he can rightfully say he grew up in Turkey. Unless, of course, none of you left your front yards for 18 years. Do any of you realize how stupid you look to the world at large? All you are doing is giving the unsaved world a great reason to tune you out.

Wow! Is this real? Are you really going to deal with the facts for a change? That's great!

Let's start with your attempt to defend Caner's false assertion that he grew up in Turkey. As with anything, we need to look at the context to get a proper understanding. I think this quote from his sermon to the Prestonwood Baptist Church is a good place to start. Caner is recorded making the following statement:

I was born in Sweden, raised in Turkey, came to America in 1978. When I came to America I came through Brooklyn, New York, of all places, which is where I learned English.

OK - let's ask ourselves if there is anything true in those two sentences? The answer is NOPE! There is nothing true in those two statements. We know he came to America in 1969, not 1978. His family went straight to Ohio, not Brooklyn, NY. He learned English like every other kid growing up in the Midwestern town of OHIO. He did not learn English in Brooklyn as a teenage immigrant from Turkey. He did not grow up in Turkey and he was not in "Islamic Youth Jihad" as he claimed in his debut "sermon" as an ex-Jihadist at FBC Jax:

May I submit to you, until I was 15 years old I was in the Islamic Youth Jihad. And so until I came to America, until I found Jesus Christ as Lord, I was trained to do that which was done on 11 September. I was born in Stockholm, Sweden, and raised in Europe and came to America...

Craig, from your writings I get the impression you think you are nobody's fool, and you can tell the difference between truth and falsehood, right? That's great! So tell us, please tell us all, do you really believe that Ergun Caner did his level best to present GOD'S TRUTH of his personal history in the sermons quoted above? Please, tell us what you really believe about this. And even if you do not personally believe he did anything wrong, do you have sufficient objectivity to admit that there is more than enough prima facie evidence to support the charges that he invented a false history to sell himself as an "inside expert" on Islam and Terrorism to capitalize on the post-9/11 hysteria?

All the best,

Richard

New BBC Open Forum said...

Debbie and others,

You're only proving "D's" point by feeding the troll. It's like pouring gasoline on a lit match or fertilizer on a weed. I've learned the best way to deal with the "Craigs" of the blogosphere is to ignore them. They thrive on attention.

New BBC Open Forum said...

I've been called worse on the blog and in depositions...but to call the Watchdog a FEMALE CAT-IN-THE HAT...them's is fighting words Craiger! I am deeply offended.

Besides, is not the Cat-in-the-Hat male? This is a slam on the integrity of the beloved character we all have grown up with.


Once again we're reminded that being referred to as "female" or in feminine terms seems to be the worst insult one can inflict upon someone.

Word verification: doghossi

I'm sure "junkster" can come up with something clever for that.

:-)

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Yep, that's me...the woman basher. Nothing worse than a WOMAN.

Besides that I'm just kidding....sure, it would be insult for a man to be called a woman or girlie...just as it would for woman to be called a man or manly.

BibleWheel said...

==========================
Anon wrote:

I'm only anonymous because I dont want to take the time to sign-up/log in/etc. Here's the deal: Caner is a man...a sinner saved by grace. Just like me and you. None is better than another. You get in your pants the same way I get in mine and the same way Caner gets in his. None of us is righteous, no not one. We are ALL redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. I do things everyday, every HOUR that demand God's forgiveness and grace and mercy. Thankfully, He never gives up on me. I've retold alot of the same stories and jokes and tales in my lifetime and sometimes, I tell em one way and sometimes I tell em another. Sometimes I forget one part or another. SOMETIMES,,,I ADD things to the story...for real. I'm not even close to perfect. I've said all of that to say this:

LEAVE THE POOR MAN ALONE ALREADY!

==========================

Funny how that plea for "poor man Caner" forgot the essence of Christianity -

R.E.P.E.N.T.A.N.C.E.

They want Caner to be allowed to sin freely forever and ever. They want Caner to be "left alone" because the Gospel call to repentance is "not nice."

All Caner needs to do is REPENT and all of this will be over. It would never have started if he simply repented when he first was caught in his sin. But no - Caner chose the devil's path of darkness and lies. He deleted his bio. Liberty deleted his bio, and colluded with Ankerberg to suppress the truth in unrighteous "copyright infringement" claims to YouTube. We are witnessing sin upon sin exposing a corruption that permeates a massive swath of the evangelical Christianity.

It never ceases to amaze me. Caner's supporters seem to forget that sinners need to repent to be freed from their sins! They seem to be perfectly happy to let folks sin on forever with no repentance.

There is no Gospel without repentance, and this, unfortunately, seems to imply that Caner's supporters (and the associated institutions like Liberty U) don't know the first thing about the Gospel the claim to be preaching.

BibleWheel said...

==========================
Anon wrote:

I'm only anonymous because I dont want to take the time to sign-up/log in/etc. Here's the deal: Caner is a man...a sinner saved by grace. Just like me and you. None is better than another. You get in your pants the same way I get in mine and the same way Caner gets in his. None of us is righteous, no not one. We are ALL redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. I do things everyday, every HOUR that demand God's forgiveness and grace and mercy. Thankfully, He never gives up on me. I've retold alot of the same stories and jokes and tales in my lifetime and sometimes, I tell em one way and sometimes I tell em another. Sometimes I forget one part or another. SOMETIMES,,,I ADD things to the story...for real. I'm not even close to perfect. I've said all of that to say this:

LEAVE THE POOR MAN ALONE ALREADY!

==========================

Funny how that plea for "poor man Caner" forgot the essence of Christianity -

R.E.P.E.N.T.A.N.C.E.

They want Caner to be allowed to sin freely forever and ever. They want Caner to be "left alone" because the Gospel call to repentance is "not nice."

All Caner needs to do is REPENT and all of this will be over. It would never have started if he simply repented when he first was caught in his sin. But no - Caner chose the devil's path of darkness and lies. He deleted his bio. Liberty deleted his bio, and colluded with Ankerberg to suppress the truth in unrighteous "copyright infringement" claims to YouTube. We are witnessing sin upon sin exposing a corruption that permeates a massive swath of the evangelical Christianity.

It never ceases to amaze me. Caner's supporters seem to forget that sinners need to repent to be freed from their sins! They seem to be perfectly happy to let folks sin on forever with no repentance.

There is no Gospel without repentance, and this, unfortunately, seems to imply that Caner's supporters (and the associated institutions like Liberty U) don't know the first thing about the Gospel the claim to be preaching.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Yep, that's me...the woman basher. Nothing worse than a WOMAN.

Yeah, you old he-man woman hater. You should have registered "fbcjaxmrscatinthehat" while you were at it.

:-)

CraigD2599 said...

Debbie...to quote an unnamed source (friend of mine who works at A.P.) "we did our own digging and the guy accusing him (James White) is such an idiot that we would look stupid carrying the story"
The only thing that REALLY happened is the light switch was thrown and the cockroaches and rats were exposed...you are free to be either (or both) of those, whichever you prefer.
Debbie won;t be posting for a while...it's time to cook dinner

Anonymous said...

"I can take that, and I've been called worse on the blog and in depositions...but to call the Watchdog a FEMALE CAT-IN-THE HAT...them's is fighting words Craiger! I am deeply offended."

I have not laughed this hard in a while.

Craig is the one drinking the koolaid of his leaders.

Anonymous said...

Craig,

Paragraphs are our friends. Especially when one is writing in stream of consciousness mode with so much adhominem.

Your high school English Teacher

Anonymous said...

'Watchdog, I'm afraid that Craig will never answer your questions.'

They are unable. It is a product of the type of education they have received from certain leaders. They all sound like mini me Patterson's.

Anonymous said...

There is no Gospel without repentance, and this, unfortunately, seems to imply that Caner's supporters (and the associated institutions like Liberty U) don't know the first thing about the Gospel the claim to be preaching.

June 18, 2010 3:14 PM

O, they know this which is why they cannot dare admit he has lied over and over for 9 years. THEY get to redefine what is sin. So they attack the messengers who point it out as the real sinners.

Note how they keep telling the messengers to repent. They have created their very own brand of religion.

Anonymous said...

"Debbie...to quote an unnamed source (friend of mine who works at A.P.) "we did our own digging and the guy accusing him (James White) is such an idiot that we would look stupid carrying the story"


Here is a perfect example. How is James White an "idiot". I might disagree with him on doctrine but exactly how is he an idiot?

(At least he has REAL debates with Muslims. Not pretend ones)

Anonymous said...

Debbie won;t be posting for a while...it's time to cook dinner

June 18, 2010 3:51 PM

Hmm. I thought in the world of Liberty that was a high and noble "role" for women.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Craig said: "Debbie...to quote an unnamed source (friend of mine who works at A.P.)

Craig - is that a reporter for the Associated Press, or the cashier at the A&P?

Sorry dude, White has credibility, and has been quoted by reputable reporters. So have I, Debbie, and Wade.

You have no credibility, sir. None.

And you're one angry, bitter, dude.

And jealous too, perhaps.

debbiekaufman said...

BBC: read my comment to anonymous. Trolls are here whether you respond to them or not. It's for my benefit not his that I respond. Thanks for your advice but no thanks. They have been not confronted for far too long. Now if it bothers you I can understand you not reading, but like leaders that I question and do as I feel led to do, such is the same case here. I short, I hear you but at this time feel led to address the situation not run or walk away from it. Cause frankly that doesn't do any good either and peace at any price isn't peace except for the troll.

Weezie said...

"Weezie...like godliness oozes off the BS you trowel out here, along with all the other mental midgets who still don't know when you have lost a fight? I wish you'd try that crap with my church is my pastor had someone coming to speak that didn't meet your pathetic approval...he slap a lawsuit on your miserable arse so fast your head would spin. What you are doing constitutes internet harassment and if I were Caner I'd have injunctions waiting for you. You make me sick. I seriously would love to run into a few of you in public...then back up and do it again. (That's a joke friends...)"

*Cutting the rest of the huge paragraph simply to save space.

Ok, not sure where you STOPPED addressing me, but I do believe you called me a mental midget and alluded to my "BS trowel".

1)I have only ever posted ONE time before this and it was very short. BS trowel???

2) You think I am a mental midget? Let's sparr.

3) My husband (who has a black belt AND a PhD) would like to run over you. (Joking of course, just like you were.)

4) Grow up.

Very Confused! said...

I'm new to this whole christian thing and I'm very confused. I happened to run across this blog while searching for various churches in FL. It appears that the watchdog is really hitting something that is very important by pointing out some out right lies by a man that is in very high position in a supposed christian institution. He has videos and his own ears heard the lies. So why can't this other person craig answer the watchdog's questions about caner? They seem very simple and very clear in what they are asking. I find it disgusting that craig is supporting what looks like a certain lier, but only offers insults instead of facts. Shouldn't a supposed man of god that craig purports to be be able to offer more?

debbiekaufman said...

That shows me that you haven't read a thing Craig.Not one newpiece, Huffington Post wrote 2 pieces on it, Fox news ran one, the list goes on. It's been in the Associated Press who wrote 2 pieces on it and will be writing a third.

Judging by what you wrote, especially in your last post, maybe we should be investigating your integrity and honesty too huh? That is what we are doing this for. I just don't think the gospel, Christianity and dishonesty, lying, should be in the same list. Silly me.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Yep, that's me...the woman basher. Nothing worse than a WOMAN.

I meant Craig. You've never struck me as the he-man woman-hater type.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Debbie,

Do as you wish. I was simply telling you what my experience has been. YMMV

debbiekaufman said...

BBC:There is a time to be silent and a time to speak. I feel this is the time to speak And my dealings with them have been different. We get more advice on how to handle things yet we are the ones who broke the story. Frankly, I'm getting sick of advice, no offence intended as I know you mean well. I am not new to this rodeo, I know full well what I am doing and why.

If I would have followed "advice" this story would never have seen the light of day. Even Ergun himself attempted to advise me through another party. I'll give you ten guesses as to what his advice to me was. :)

stt said...

Dawg, I would not have told that about myself.

You are bold.

Dee said...

Hey Watchdog

As a public health nurse, I would like to express concern for Craig's mental status. He sounds a bit "off" to me. I would have called his doctor if he were a patient of mine. He sounds inappropriately angry and a bit delusional.He attempts to place himself at a higher level than others and has serious self esteem issues. He is definitely escaIating in his attacks. I suggest that we all pray for him.

Craig
Please get some help. What you are saying goes beyond normal angry communication. I have gone to your website and it seems like you have already had some interpersonal relationship issues. This stuff with Ergun Caner is not directed at you, personally. I shall pray that God will give you the peace that passes all understanding.

Anonymous said...

"We get more advice on how to handle things yet we are the ones who broke the story"

Who is "we"?

Anonymous said...

"Who is "we"?"

crickets...

CraigD2599 said...

Man! Nothing beats a chum slick. For a gathering of self aggrandizing intellectuals you are easy marks. This isn't even fair. How many Ronco products and tubs of Oxyclean do you geniuses have?
You did precisely what I thought you would...(30 seconds of smugness beginning...now)
I would like to know THIS much...why the HELL does Ergun Caner, LBTS, or ANYONE owe anyone of you tremendously over-exaggerated asses anything even remotely resembling an explanation, an apology, a timeline, or even deign to fart int your direction? WHO THE HELL ARE ANY OF YOU PEOPLE! This has been my point all along? He owes you NOTHING! Liberty owes you NOTHING! You aren't his pastor or his bosses. You don't deserve the silightest bit of recognition from ANYONE ON THIS PLANET! PERIOD! If not for the internet you would have no idea of who Ergun Caner is and no way to puke your BS all over each other for months trying to become famous on someone elses dime. Which is really what you are all about...EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU. This is about you. If Ergun Caner resigned tomorrow and went to a cave in Zaragosa for the rest of his life, it wouldn't be five minutes before the whole lot of you
were perched on the next dead branch waiting for another body to pick at. You are fabulously egomaniacal and wonderfully megalomaniacal and it is fun yet awful to behold. I am really waiting for all your enemies to be run off so nobody remains but you eating each other.
It's intervention time...
repeat after me: "I am NOBODY!"
Good now "It's okay to be NOBODY"
Now go flip those burger tomorrow with pride!

Anonymous said...

I totally get why craig is a DIVORCED dad.

Anonymous said...

Craig...you are the perfect witness...for Caner.


I am sure he appreciates it.

Anonymous said...

"If not for the internet you would have no idea of who Ergun Caner is and no way to puke your BS all over each other for months trying to become famous on someone elses dime. Which is really what you are all about...EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU. This is about you."

This might be true about Debbie but many of us are anonymous and want it that way. We would prefer to discuss the issues with facts instead of ad hominem that you types always resort to.

It always becomes about the person who is presenting the facts so the facts take a back seat. Nice try and it might work with Debbie but not for the rest of us. I do not expect you to get this...you are too busy spitting out words to see where they splatter.

Concerned Pastor said...

@Craig… Who are "we?" You speak as if only someone of a certain caliber has the right or responsibility to point out sin. Liberty is Caner's employer, and they will deal with him accordingly. However that does not negate the rebuke or responsibility from the church at large. Many have been offended by his sin. I have sent our youth to camps where they heard his lies and believed them. So, as a pastor, I have been directly offended. I put my trust in those who brought him in as a credible teacher and he failed. Everyone who has heard his testimony in person or on the net has been offended and anyone who has purchased his materials has also been offended. You see this sin is broad and deep and not to be made light of. Since he is a public figure, he is open for public rebuke. Scripture teaches that anyone who sees a brother in sin needs to bring it to his or her attention. However, in this case, the "brother" in question is ignoring the sin and calls to repent by silence and covering up. Repentance is confessing and turning around. I believe you too must be rebuked for your crude and worldly manner in which you approach the topic. This is a highly sensitive and serious spiritual matter which has to be dealt with publicly with dignity and maturity. Our testimony to the world is at stake.

"Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted."(Gal 6:1 NASB)

Anonymous said...

@Craig

What does Caner owe me? He owes me the truth because I assumed LBTS was a legitimate seminary because it's president was "famous" for debating.

Turns out he didn't. After finding this out I started pursuing other places to get a M. Div online. In speaking with a seminary I found out my thousands of dollars and 18 credits were probably a waste. LBTS is not ATS accredited and my credits probably won't transfer. This is my fault for not checking it out but I could have gotten an M. Div from LBTS if this issue would not have reared it's head and made me want to pursue an educational institution.

What does he owe me? Not the money or time I wasted. He owes everyone the TRUTH. The man cannot have been born in both Sweden and Turkey. He could not have watched the Dukes in 1978.

Thank you in advance for insulting me instead of addressing the two obvious lies I have listed.

Have a nice day.

Anonymous said...

WD:

As a psychiatric nurse of 11 years, I would like to echo what Dee pointed out concerning Craig's mental state. In psychiatry we call it being "grandiose." He thinks he's better than everyone else here, and refuses to address the facts.

I would also like to add that he is projecting his own self-loathing onto the readers of this blog.

Craig, please address the facts using common courtesy, or go trolling somewhere else!!

Sheri

Anonymous said...

"I totally get why craig is a DIVORCED dad."

Oh dear God, he reproduced?

Fredericka said...

Sounds like somebody needs to take the remedial class in purity of thought, word and deed.

debbiekaufman said...

Craig: I would answer those questions you ask, but it is you who I owe no explanation to. None, zero, zilch. But it is our business, it is everyone's business. He speaks publicly, he owes a lot of people an explanation. He owes those who he spoke to and lied to an explanation.

As I said, this is about honesty and integrity among Christians. You may call it what you will, but that doesn't change the fact that you too are lying because we told you over and over what this is about.

Anonymous: Leave my name out of Craig's rantings. I wrote the story to begin with because I saw dishonesty happening in a Christian leader. Period.

Anonymous said...

Debbie, Earlier you said "we broke the story". I am wondering, who is the "we"?

debbiekaufman said...

Anonymous: Forgive me if this seems rude, but I am not going to do your homework for you. I read the question, but just as I did a search to find information to the story, you can do a search or read any of our blogs to get the beginning. I have about as much time as you do and I am tired of the same questions being asked 4 months into this. Please find the information for yourself and then you will be all caught up. New stories will have who was involved and what transpired or you can read the first posts I did in February.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Joe Blackmon - you're a sick man. I really do mean that.

I won't post your rants here on my blog.

Please post them on YOUR blog, if you have one, and then we can easily avoid reading your filth.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Same to ya, Joe. I still won't post your comments.

Call me a coward, but I still feel sorry for you.

Really, I do.

Get well, sir.

Thy Peace said...

{portrait of a magnificent obsession} > Theology Day 1 [June 20, 2010].

Within the first 20 minutes of class Ergun is chatting about the accusations against him, but made it clear that he isn't worrying about the issue or looking in to it...yet...well never mind. If you're interested I have 7 minutes of his innocence recorded on my cell.

Anonymous said...

Craig - interesting quote. "I would like to know THIS much...why the HELL does Ergun Caner, LBTS, or ANYONE owe anyone of you tremendously over-exaggerated asses anything even remotely resembling an explanation, an apology, a timeline, or even deign to fart int your direction? WHO THE HELL ARE ANY OF YOU PEOPLE!"

This is the same kind of reaction received (figuratively, of course, as Mac did not respond in any literal way except ignoring "our" questions.) Arrogance and belittling the questioner has a way of inviting public blogs. :)

Who are "we?" Like you say - we are nobody. But our questions sure do bother the big boys and the millionaires. They discuss us, and have meetings about our blogs, and issue resolutions, and accusatory letters, and trespass warnings, and get the county sheriff's detective involved and the state's attorney office.

That is who we are. Now, who are YOU?

Anonymous said...

NOTICE: On Ergun's Facebook page, the photo of the tenth birthday party which he claimed was in Turkey has been removed

Anonymous said...

Breaking News . . .

Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary has just announced that the Law of God will no longer be referenced as the Ten Commandments. From this day forward, the Law of God will be known as the Nine Commandments. “In light of the Ergun Caner controversy, we just felt that it would be better to delete one of the commandments,” Elmer Towns stated. “This will allow us to keep Ergun as our president.” Where there is no law, there can be no sin. No sin, no problem.

debbiekaufman said...

I have learned tonight from a reliable source that Ergun is removing some of his own videos.

Thy Peace said...

Alpha & Omega Ministries Apologetics Blog [James White] > From Gate D26...

Now those are seven minutes of audio I'd like to hear, personally. Is it not strange that Caner will chat about these issues at the start of a class, but he has purposefully, knowingly prolonged this situation by his refusal to respond to all the documentation that has been provided publicly? He won't talk to CT or the other media outlets, but he will proclaim his "innocence" to his students. Innocence regarding what? What allegations is he responding to? We don't know since, for some reason, he won't openly and honestly respond to the questions that have been asked of him.

Bennett Willis said...

Has anyone noticed anything that has "gone missing?" I suspect that they may be put back up if they disappear. :)

New BBC Open Forum said...

Has anyone noticed anything that has "gone missing?"

Why, yes, I have.

First there was this.

And now this.

I'm sure it was just a scheduling conflict. **cough**

Thy Peace said...

CRBC Pastoral Blog [Tom Chantry] > …and Finney begat Caner….

It is well worth asking whether Caner felt somehow compelled to grow more outrageous as the years went by. No one feels as overwhelmed by terrorism as we did when its imprint was fresh upon our minds. Was it harder to retain the rapt attention of large congregations as 9-11 faded from the memory? Did Caner feel the need to juice up his presentation through humor?

Whether this was a conscious decision or not, we must conclude that Caner the comedian was as inevitable in the current evangelical milieu as was Caner the fear-monger. We already have plenty of ordained Jeff Foxworthys. It was only a matter of time until we had an ordained comedian who decided it would be funny to start mocking various ethnic groups.

Anonymous said...

I think you all are trying to make a lot of sense from Caner's actions. I don't think sense will ever be made of it because it seems obvious to me that Caner is a habitual/pathological liar. His lies just happen depending on the circumstances of the moment. Then he can't remember who he has told what to...but he'll be more careful with an audience that knows his background vs. one that doesn't.

I am beginning to wonder about LU/TRBC's ability to check credentials...today there is a story in the Lynchburg paper (the Lynchburg News and Advance) about a woman teaching a Nurses Aide program in Liberty Christian Academy who did not have the proper credentials. She is most likely going to lose her nursing license over it. I am also aware of the Equestrian coach this past year at LU being a total pathological liar and having none of the credentials she said she did. LU bought her story hook line and sinker. Apparently she's finally been removed as LU's riding coach even though they knew about the problems ALL year.

Gordon said...

This is Absolutely Ridiculous! Are you folks for real? Nothing about this conversation is Christian. Tearing each other apart in the name of Christ? Hmmm...

Don't you guys have anything better to do? like hold a bible study with people who need to know Jesus. If you know so much why not just let this whole thing go and go and be christians...If indeed you are.