"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Monday, October 25, 2010

Wade Burleson Lays Down the Blogging Pen

Readers - Wade Burleson has announced that he is stepping away from blogging for good to focus more on other ministries. Please visit his blog to read about some of his new directions.

His blog will stay up and articles are searchable, and he says that all articles will eventually be transferred to his new website next year. Commenting has been turned off.

I'm sure much will be written in the coming days about the sudden end to Wade's popular blog. One article that is already out is by Bart Barber, who has written a very fair piece about Wade's blog and I recommend my readers to go here to read it.

Thank you Wade for all you've done through your blog. I could say more, but it would take too long to write.

Readers, feel free to leave comments here to Wade, or to discuss the significance of Wade's blog, what it has meant to you, or what his blog's end will mean to Southern Baptist life.

68 comments:

Anonymous said...

Who now will tell us the truth about the SBC?

Thy Peace said...

I had a premonition or an inkling that this would happen. From what I gather, Pastor Wade is more focussed on his church and his book writing. It appears at least the above activities are more satisfying to him than blogging currently.

Anonymous said...

So, Wade is going to focus on book writing? Guess blogging wasn't lucrative enough.

Anonymous said...

fI'll miss Wade. I've learned a lot during these past few years. He seems like a personal friend, though I've never met him. I wish he were my pastor (we are pastorless at this time!)

Florence in KY

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Classic post over at Barber's site that probably exemplifies why Wade's fed up with the SBC.

Robin says:

"Wade may be quitting the blog site, but he will probably not lay back on his message. His new site leaves the possibility to be an avenue of continuing his attacks against those he deems as enemies of his ecumenical vision for the SBC. While leaving the ability to comment by others will lessen that threat, it is still a potent weapon that can create havoc among some in the SBC."

Read that carefully. Look at how Wade is viewed. For sure, Wade espouses a contrary view to many of the CR and BI folks in the SBC.

- But he is expected to "continue his attacks" - Wade hasn't attacked anyone. He has done his best to speak his mind on important matters.

- his "attacks" are "against those he deems as enemies"...good Lord, Wade doesn't esteem anyone as his enemies in the SBC.

- his views are characterized as "ecumenical"....that is such a stretch! Wade is not ecumenical, he has simply called for the SBC to stop narrowing the parameters of what it means to be a Southern Baptist, for the big shots to stop excluding people on the basis of lesser doctrinal matters.

- "lessen the threat" - Wade's writings are viewed as a threat

- "potent weapon" - yep, Wade is just a regular ole nuclear bomb ready to go off and create all sorts of collateral damage.

- "create havoc" - yes, speaking truth to some of these SBC hot shots sure does create havoc.

Wade sure did get under these guys' skins, and Wade was able to communicate to the regular church member, and to even missionaries, in a way his detractors never could and never will. I look forward to Wade's return at his website.

I don't think Wade is stepping back from the fight. I think he is going to refocus and get some bigger artilery and come out firing again from his new website from a bigger and better platform.

Let's all stay tuned! Go get 'em Wade!

Thy Peace said...

Watchdog, I am afraid those days are over. I believe Wade will only write posts on his new website related to local church issues/theology but not SBC related. The biggest loss would be the community of commentators on his blog. I would sorely miss the interactions of various commentators.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Thy Peace - let's pray that Wade changes his mind. I know I will be praying...

Former FBC Insider said...

I have considered Wade my pastor for the last few years. He speaks the truth in love like I've never seen. He has a genuine love for all people. He is the closest thing to Jesus with skin on that I've ever known. A man of true character.

Anonymous said...

After reading Wade's last blog explaining why he is laying down his blogging pen, I am inclined to think he believes more ministry can accomplished by getting back to the grassroots of local church evangelism. Wade says the ministries at his church are expanding, thus requiring more of his attention and involvement, which should be expected from any pastor of any church. So I commend him for his approach to this transition.

I also think a lot can be taken from this. First, I think if Wade wanted to continue the blog and effectively minister at his church at the same time, he would. Secondly, this new development puts a spotlight on what I like to call grass roots evangelism. To me it seems obvious that Wade had to make a decision. Either continue the blog and make par on local church responsibilities, or take part in and fulfill the minister's role in the increasing ministry opportunity in his local church. I imagine its hard to balance both. But as a pastor of a local congregation, I would tend to think Wade's ministry should be directed more towards his sheep instead of a few website commentators who don't attend his church. Perhaps this is why public commentating for his new website will be disabled.

Anonymous said...

Wade changed over the recent years--for the better, in my opinion (sent an email to him in December 2005/January 2006 to encourage him to deal with matters he was blogging about back then; I edited some of the things he blogged a couple of years ago; sometimes I signed my name--most of the time I didn't). Less fundamentalist politically, more moderate politically--just as conservative theologically, like 99.5% of the rest of us. Good job, Wade, keeping the focus where it needed to be during your time blogging. The need is still there, the torch is passed to . . . who?

Thy Peace said...

But as a pastor of a local congregation, I would tend to think Wade's ministry should be directed more towards his sheep instead of a few website commentators who don't attend his church.

I humbly beg to differ.

Wade's church and his preaching has been a sanctuary to ALL the lost sheep.

Anonymous said...

Who will tell the truth about the SBC? WD has my vote, but he will have to change his handle to SBC Watchdog! Frankly, I am surprised that no enterprising blogger has not done this already! I guess Christa Brown has come the closest. But even her handle is grossly misleading. It really should be stop southern baptist predators. If someone starts SBC Watchdog they could tag Christa site onto it and probably do a much larger service and cast a much larger net to catch these scumbags!

Anonymous said...

Wade deserves total credit for bringing the systemic corruption of the SBC to the forefront.

Most would not have done it because disagreeing publicly is a career killer for many. He will have no place in the SBC...many will make sure of it.

But it needed to be done on the system level. Sure we hear about the corruption in local/mega churches but his was the first to focus on the systemic corruption at the highest level.

The very way the SBC operates is corrupt. The corruption is systemized and is inbred. But most importantly, the corruption is seen as normal and mainstream. More folks also need to read Mary Kinney's book to get a tiny whiff of what I mean.

The SBC has become a way for a small group to seriously enrich themselves.

Dr Who said...

I believe he will still blog, but it will be done anonymously by him.

Thanks Wade for your ideas, thoughts and opinions.

At least we in America have this FREEDOM, - for now.

Who knows, maybe I will start a blog and pick up the slack :).........

Anonymous said...

Attn: Florence, Ky., 10-25 1:32 pm: You said: "We are pastorless at this time". LUCKY YOU!!! Let the laymen preach, they probably know more about the Bible!!!

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:49 a.m. We have been pastorless for about 1 1/2; as you indicated, it's not all bad!! We are fortunate to have 3 teachers from the U. of Cumberlands taking months about preaching and doing the Bible studies on Sun. and Wed. evenings. Also, our members are doing more than usual!
Florence in KY

Anonymous said...

I have been a member of the same church for about 50 years. In that time we have had seven pastors, two interims, and the other times that there were vacancies, committees or individuals were charged with securing preachers for each Sunday. Without a doubt our happiest times have been when laypeople felt they were valued and they enthusiastically did what needed to be done. Minus a pastor there is less stress and more joy.

Joe Blackmon said...

:-)

Anonymous said...

"Massa Blackmon, you iz bad!"
-- Gone With The Wind

Anonymous said...

what am i supposed to do...cry or celebrate?

Thy Peace said...

I would like to add that more than Wade's blogging, Wade's preaching is more revolutionary and game changing than anything I have heard in a while. I would encourage any readers who are little disheartened by the loss of Wade's blog to discover any of his sermons. I have been systematically going through his sermons and it has been very profitable to me.

Emmanuel - Enid > Series on "Seven 'I Wills' Of Christ" > If I Will . . . What Is That To Thee? (John 21:22)

I should say it is not Wade speaking, but the Scriptures speaking that are the driving force.

Elisabeth said...

JOE!!! You didn't have to read it if you didn't like it!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Joe Blackmon said...

:-)

I should have known. And I thought I would have to visit one of those blogs to see who would be the first to gloat. Thanks for sparing me that chore, Joe.

Paula said...

Elisabeth said...
JOE!!! You didn't have to read it if you didn't like it!

But then again, Wade never had to read Peter Lumpkins' blog...

Point being, we all need to read other views or we become ingrown. And when we see a fellow believer erring we are to correct him-- much the way most people feel the need to correct Joe, yet deny that right to him when he corrects someone else. Oh, they call it just meanness instead of correction, but that difference is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak.

I have more of a problem with people trying to tell other people to shut up, than people being mean. ;-)

Anonymous said...

Wade ceasing to blog is the blessing. HIs blogging was far from that. It might be better defined as blubbering.

New BBC Open Forum said...

But then again, Wade never had to read Peter Lumpkins' blog...

That's true. But even if he did, he didn't have to blog about it and draw a whole lot more attention to Lumpkins than he would have ever gotten otherwise. Lumpkins strikes me as the type who enjoys any kind of attention, positive or negative, and Wade gave it to him. As someone pointed out in the now hidden comments on Wade's blog, they were both acting like a couple of junior high boys trying to one-up each other. In this particular case I can't fault one of them any more than the other.

This is why I thanked Joe for saying what I was waiting for someone to say and saving me the trouble of visiting the blogs where the Wade-haters congregate to see who gloated first. Not that I cared, but I was mildly curious. Now I have no need to go there and witness a bunch of men who never matured past the 7th grade go at each other's throats. My life is much more peaceful without that.

If some of you anons who claim this blog "spews hate" want to see some real hate, just take a look at some of the comment streams on those blogs. I'm sure you won't have any trouble finding them.

Anonymous said...

Looks like Dr Who is a lady of her words.

http://drwho2.blogspot.com/2010/10/in-beginning.html

This should be fun. I do not think Wade will be missed much.

Paula said...

As someone pointed out in the now hidden comments on Wade's blog,

They're gone from Wade's site, but I know where some of them are hiding. ;-)

Anonymous said...

Dr.Dog please visit this you tube viedo about the tithe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM3BWAmlXis&feature=related

Anonymous said...

I have a different take.

It is very difficult to keep a blog running for a long time without feeling you are repeating yourself. After a while, any blog can lose its edge. I think Wade might have been feeling a bit of that.

Since the time I started reading FBCJaxWatchdog several months ago, I have felt it has consistently remained fresh and powerful. I hope it continues on a long great run.

There is definately a need for the leaders to know someone is watching them.

Paula said...

I think Wade might have been feeling a bit of that.

Possibly, but look at the timing. He was posting fairly often and suddenly stopped cold turkey. He has taken sabbaticals before, but if shutting down the blog had been thought about and planned, why take a sabbatical, start up again, and then suddenly stop without warning?

I've also noticed over the years that these sabbaticals (or just comment shutdowns) tend to happen in the midst of furious debate in the comments, especially if Wade himself is being questioned. And that was exactly the scenario this time.

Personally, and all things considered, I think Wade likes dishing out criticism but not taking it.

There is definately a need for the leaders to know someone is watching them.

I couldn't agree more. But shutting down comments (even hiding those that have already been posted, and the entire history of them) is exactly the opposite of accountability. Those who feel confident in defending what they say welcome comments; those who feel threatened by comments will of course not welcome them.

Timing, history, behavior patterns... those all seem to point to a reaction against personal criticism.

Anonymous said...

Hey Paula,

I see you still are just attacking away while sitting alone in your ivory tower.

I hang out here too.

Wade shut down his blog. Deal with it. He's decided that he has better things to do. It's obvious that with Debbie Kaufman and Wade Burleson shutting down their respective sites, that you and Joe no longer have foils to the hate and discord that you two peddle. Feel free to roost here but know that you'll have to deal with me here as well.

Then again, being a shill for the SBCToday crowd has been the pinnacle of your Christian, make that christian, faith.

Just so you know who's saying this...

-bill

Doug said...

I have often thanked Wade for his articles. They have been a great eye opener to me and have been, I believe, "salt and light" in the SBC. I will miss him, but take comfort in knowing that he "pioneered" in the SBC a new move toward openness and honesty. Hopefully our leaders figured out that "back room" deals are a thing of the past. God bless you Wade and family!

Debbie Kaufman said...

Paula: I can tell you that you are very wrong on all counts. Again. This will be my last statement online ever. We both simply followed what where we felt the Holy Spirit was leading, which was to concentrate on our local church which is growing and full of opportunity. For me personally, I just don't care about anything other than our local church. I don't care what you think or many others think as you speculate wrongly.

Wade takes discussion seriously and always has. Criticism is part and parcel of what we do.


We as a church and as Christians believe when God says do something, we do it. In this case, which is purely coincidental, we felt the Holy Spirit saying walk away. Being followers of Christ, we walked away. We have better things to do now. A higher calling in the local church. Yep, it's just that simple.

Now I'll not address this again, but was pointed to this discussion, and I guess at times I still can't keep my big mouth shut. :)

Debbie Kaufman said...

BTW: The closing of comments has nothing to do with accountability, which I have no idea what you think Wade needs accountability for nor do I care. Really, but he closed down comments because he can do that, it's his blog, a fact you seem to forget Paula. Just like my blog is my blog although I am no longer writing, I can do whatever I want. Whatever we feel best to do. No other underlying reason. Openness is who we are and transparent. Believe that or not. I no longer care either way.

Joe Blackmon said...

Wade closing and hiding comments actually makes sense--he should be completely ashamed of the stances he's taken there. Or rather not taken (i.e. Mormons are real Christians, "faith trumps belief", etc) Of course, now that he's hidden them, people can't see how he was called on his unbiblical positions over and over again. I mean, he never answered them but his little trained minions sure did.

Anonymous said...

they still live!

Debbie Kaufman said...

Now I've told you all the truth of what happened with both leaving blogging and the comments, so if rumors continue to fly in the face of it what is that called. Lying. So if you want to continue to spread your lies, to attempt to mutilate anyway, well...you will answer for it not me. :) But I'd be hard pressed to call you people of integrity and I would whisper if you tell anyone you are a follower of Christ or a Christian.

Debbie Kaufman said...

Joe: Those are not Wade's beliefs nor has he ever said that. Of course you are like a broken record who accuses everyone you don't like with these same accusations. You really need to be more creative, saying the same thing over and over not only shows the lies that they obviously are, but also show the lack of creativity it takes to spread such a lie. And that is all they are Joe, lies. I don't believe the things you mention, Wade doesn't believe the things you mention. It might be helpful to you to listen to Wade's sermons sometime. Then you might see how ridiculous your words are.

Thy Peace said...

If anyone went back and read the posts when Klouda blog posts on Wade's blog and read the comments (they are closed now), one will notice Wade was challenged very rigorously. Wade (I am partial to Wade) has a thick skin (as per his dad, Paul Burleson) and he takes criticisms in stride. He never shied away from criticisms.

I understand why Joe Blackmon and Paula Fether feel about this. But I disagree with them.

If anyone listens to Wade's sermons, he is very conservative. He follows the scriptures very rigorously (sermons). Wade clearly dispels the Mormons are Christians in so many sermons and in his comments on the blog posts.

Anonymous said...

Paula said...
Personally, and all things considered, I think Wade likes dishing out criticism but not taking it.

That's pretty doggone funny, considering the source. Thanks for the laugh.

Paula said...

ThyPeace,

The bottom line for me is always going to be faithfulness to the gospel. Nothing matters more than that. And I regard any tampering with the honor or exclusivity of Christ as I would an attack upon my family.

So if anyone teaches that all one needs to do is add Jesus to anything else-- meaning they can still be Mormon or Muslim or Hindu and also claim faith in Christ alone-- then that person is a false teacher who is leading souls to hell through a false sense of security.

This is what Wade teaches. I've tried several times to get him to clearly and unashamedly say that it is impossible for anyone to be saved if they still believe, for example, that there are millions of gods and that the Father was once a man, such that any human male can become a god of his own world if he obeys the Father in this life. Mormons even say that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers, which is clearly blasphemy.

Wade has repeatedly refused to say this. His comments in the last stream were evasive and tried to use innuendo and inference instead of clear statements. He has also shown through his actions on the blog that whoever is on his side can say the meanest things they want without fear of reprimand, while those who challenge him are frequently rebuked or have their comments deleted.

ThyPeace, the eternal destination of souls are at stake. That's why I tried so hard to get Wade to give a clear answer in favor of the exclusive faith in Jesus one must have to be saved. I don't hate anyone, regardless of who may call me a liar (and curiously, nobody ever calls them out for doing so). But I will always keep exposing false teachers just as Wade has done.

This isn't a personality issue to me, but a life and death issue. I grieve (again, let anyone call me a liar and they'll answer to God) for Wade and those who follow him so blindly, because they believe a false gospel, another Jesus, who doesn't care how many lovers his bride may have (the other religions).

No one disagrees that in any given religion there are many who either don't know the full teachings or haven't thought them through. But once they are told that Jesus cannot be shared with other gods, they are responsible. And scripture tells us that teachers are to be held to a HIGHER standard; there is no excuse for the likes of Wade to not know better.

That's where I'm coming from, and I've explained it as clearly and honestly as possible. I hope someday we can all agree that the only Jesus who can save is the One that "will not share his glory with another".

Paula said...

ThyPeace,

The bottom line for me is always going to be faithfulness to the gospel. Nothing matters more than that. And I regard any tampering with the honor or exclusivity of Christ as I would an attack upon my family.

So if anyone teaches that all one needs to do is add Jesus to anything else-- meaning they can still be Mormon or Muslim or Hindu and also claim faith in Christ alone-- then that person is a false teacher who is leading souls to hell through a false sense of security.

This is what Wade teaches. I've tried several times to get him to clearly and unashamedly say that it is impossible for anyone to be saved if they still believe, for example, that there are millions of gods and that the Father was once a man, such that any human male can become a god of his own world if he obeys the Father in this life. Mormons even say that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers, which is clearly blasphemy.

Wade has repeatedly refused to say this. His comments in the last stream were evasive and tried to use innuendo and inference instead of clear statements. He has also shown through his actions on the blog that whoever is on his side can say the meanest things they want without fear of reprimand, while those who challenge him are frequently rebuked or have their comments deleted.

(continued, post was too big...)

Paula said...

(... continued)

ThyPeace, the eternal destination of souls are at stake. That's why I tried so hard to get Wade to give a clear answer in favor of the exclusive faith in Jesus one must have to be saved. I don't hate anyone, regardless of who may call me a liar (and curiously, nobody ever calls them out for doing so). But I will always keep exposing false teachers just as Wade has done.

This isn't a personality issue to me, but a life and death issue. I grieve (again, let anyone call me a liar and they'll answer to God) for Wade and those who follow him so blindly, because they believe a false gospel, another Jesus, who doesn't care how many lovers his bride may have (the other religions).

No one disagrees that in any given religion there are many who either don't know the full teachings or haven't thought them through. But once they are told that Jesus cannot be shared with other gods, they are responsible. And scripture tells us that teachers are to be held to a HIGHER standard; there is no excuse for the likes of Wade to not know better.

That's where I'm coming from, and I've explained it as clearly and honestly as possible. I hope someday we can all agree that the only Jesus who can save is the One that "will not share his glory with another".

Debbie Kaufman said...

ThyPeace: I don't understand. I will never understand. And thus is the evil of the internet. One reason I walked away is garbage like Paula is spouting as if it is true with absolutely no proof as to what she is saying. Lies never have proof attached.

Paula: All you have accused Wade of believing is simply not true. You can ramble on all you want and it doesn't make it any more true.

Wade has been our minister for almost 20 years, he was in Tulsa before that. He has been President of our state convention for two terms. Do you honestly think that if he believed the drivel you claim he does he would have held those positions? No. Because what you are saying is simply a lie. They are not true. I don't know how much clearer I can make it Paula. You need to reread his posts and reread and reread until you get the Gospel.

Maybe you think we must work for salvation, maybe you believe walking an aisle brings Christ. It doesn't. One listens to the Gospel, one believes. One doesn't always just leave their religion right away, sometimes it takes time and maturity but God never leaves a person where they are. Phil. 1:6 promises that.

Like Joe, you accuse anyone you do not like or disagree with theologically of this kind of drivel, and it's getting old. It's a lie pure and simple Paula. You will not find one post ever written on Wade's blog that says this. In fact he has written the opposite if you will read or listen. It's evil that would spread such lies.

Debbie Kaufman said...

This is why we aren't just to lead someone to Christ, we are to stick with them and disciple, teach them.

I think sometimes this is why ministers and those who are separatists need to get out among people more. Being around the lost here in America, they have no idea about the Bible, let alone the Gospel. We can't just lead them to Christ and leave them there going on to the next one, telling them to go to church or just giving them a Bible. We need to invest our lives in people. Not just statistics so we can brag how many we led to Christ on a given day.

Separatists have no idea how people and the world actually are. It's why Christ went among the people. Paul went among the people. Living with them, eating with them, drinking with them. Relationships are important. As important as doctrine. People must see that we live what we believe and they can't do that if we give them a tract or spout the gospel at them with venom and run as fast as we can from them.

Lydia said...

" People must see that we live what we believe and they can't do that if we give them a tract or spout the gospel at them with venom and run as fast as we can from them."

Debbie, Isn't this assuming something about someone that might not be true?

After all, conversing with those who claim to be a long time believer is different than sharing the Gospel with an unbeliever.

With the former we must defend the truth that Jesus Christ is exclusive and the Narrow Gate. How is it nice and loving to pretend that all roads can lead to Jesus Christ with long time believers?

Wade Burleson said...

Paula,

You wrote: "If anyone teaches that all one needs to do is add Jesus to anything else-- meaning they can still be Mormon or Muslim or Hindu and also claim faith in Christ alone-- then that person is a false teacher who is leading souls to hell through a false sense of security. This is what Wade teaches. "

????

I would like for you to point to one sermon, one post, one statement that I have ever made that teaches the above. That's absurdly ridiculous.

Paula, one of the reasons blogging is no longer enjoyable is because of unsupported and unsubstantiated statements like yours, with the author acting as if it is fact.

I do not wish to question your integrity or character, but until you produce a "teaching" that supports your statement above, I'm afraid that I will question anything and everything you write.

Paula said...

I would like for you to point to one sermon, one post, one statement that I have ever made that teaches the above. That's absurdly ridiculous.

Paula, one of the reasons blogging is no longer enjoyable is because of unsupported and unsubstantiated statements like yours, with the author acting as if it is fact.

I do not wish to question your integrity or character, but until you produce a "teaching" that supports your statement above, I'm afraid that I will question anything and everything you write.


You deleted the evidence, Wade. Your own comments in your own blog are where I get this. You know very well how many times I and a few others tried to pin you down on whether a Mormon can be a Christian, and you refused to say they can't. You simply repeated about faith in Jesus alone, without ever addressing the issue of EXCLUSIVE faith meaning you have to give up being Mormon or Muslim, since those beliefs are incompatible. I won't go through that exercise again for you; look it up yourself.

I managed to save the last couple pages of comments and linked to them above. You can see your teachings there. You were evasive and hostile.

Wade, as I explained above, the timing of your departure from blogging tells a different story than "Holy Spirit leading". Those are the facts and anyone can check them.

Now since obviously Debbie dragged you here to bash me for daring to criticize you, you might want to consider the damage SHE is doing to your reputation by going everywhere accusing people of lying and hating when she herself is the worst.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Paula - that is rubbish. All you have to do is listen to the man's sermons, read his hundreds and hundreds of posts and the guy is a conservative, bible-believing Christian preacher.

You're digging for something that is not there.

Forget Wade's comments. Provide just one blog post, one of his comments anywhere else out in the blogosphere that are STILL out there for you to read that makes your case.

Wade being evasive and hostile? You're just not making any sense.

And this statement:

"Wade, as I explained above, the timing of your departure from blogging tells a different story than "Holy Spirit leading". Those are the facts and anyone can check them."

Really? What facts? You can post here with your facts, but I don't see any. Where would I go to check out these facts?

Wade Burleson said...

Paula,

If you consider my rebuttal of your comment and my rebuke of your reckless and absurd logic hostile, I plead guilty. Smiling.

Otherwise, I'm in a really good mood! On my way to a Oklahoma football game!

Sola gratia, sola fide, sola sciptura!

Wade

Paula said...

FBCJ:

See the "they live" link above? Did you go there? Did you read the PDFs?

Alright then, let's clear this up right here and now.

WADE: If one is a Mormon they believe that there are millions of gods who were once human males, and that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers.

Can a person keep these teachings and add faith in Jesus, and be saved?

YES or NO Wade?

Paula said...

FBCJ: also check my comment at October 28, 2010 11:08 AM

Bill said...

You, dear Paula, are a piece of work.

You create a straw man, charge "false teaching" and damn as a false teacher anyone who refuses to play your straw man games.

Who made you God? Give it up. Nobody, but you, even thinks there is an issue.

It is evident to me and anyone else who can read that your question to Wade HAS ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED.

The fact that you can't see it says far more about you than you ever dreamed.

Lydia said...

People must see that we live what we believe and they can't do that if we give them a tract or spout the gospel at them with venom and run as fast as we can from them.

October 30, 2010 11:05 AM

Debbie, I am curious, who are you referring to in the above comment?

Debbie Kaufman said...

Paula: Another correction among the other wrong assumptions you have. I didn't "drag Wade here." I haven't talked to Wade in weeks.

Joe Blackmon said...

No, actually, it most certainly has NOT been answered. Wade has dodged, avoided, qualified but he most certainly has not, and will not, answer. He's had members of the WDF (Wade Defense Force) jump to his defense to say what he believes. But he has not, and again he will not, answer a simple yes or no question--Are Mormons Christians?

The answer to that question is "No". No Christian would answer that question "Yes".

Someone who won't answer the question=coward
Someone who has people answer the question for him=pathetic

Debbie Kaufman said...

Billy Graham has given the advice to others to not answer critics. I believe that to be a bad piece of advice. I think one should answer the critics. But in this case the critics are looking mighty foolish on their own. A good example is Joe's comment here. Kind of saves me the hassle of answering. :)

Debbie Kaufman said...

Lydia: I'm going to let you continue to be curious. :)

Wade Burleson said...

Joe,

I will be more than happy to oblige your request. I believe it is nigh impossible for a Mormon who holds to official Mormon doctrine to be "saved," for Mormonism is diametrically opposed to true Biblical Christianity. In the same manner, it is nigh impossible for any person who holds a condemning, critical, and judgmental spirit to be "saved," for that spirit is the anti-thesis of Christ and is as anti-Christ in origin as false doctrine.

How's that?

:)

Paula said...

I will be more than happy to oblige your request. I believe it is nigh impossible for a Mormon who holds to official Mormon doctrine to be "saved," for Mormonism is diametrically opposed to true Biblical Christianity.

Thank you for finally admitting that it is impossible to be a Mormon and a Christian.

By your admission here, Carter either doesn't know Mormonism or doesn't know the gospel. You have made it clear that these are the only two possibilities.

In the same manner, it is nigh impossible for any person who holds a condemning, critical, and judgmental spirit to be "saved," for that spirit is the anti-thesis of Christ and is as anti-Christ in origin as false doctrine.

You, Wade, have a condemning, critical, and judgmental spirit against fundies. So do your followers, named and unnamed, and you never ever publicly criticize them as you do Joe, in spite of their words being every bit as caustic. Don't try to deny this; the comments you hid but I preserved elsewhere (linked above), along with the comments in this thread, prove it to be true.

I have often said that "love without truth is no better than truth without love". But you still go on with the double standard, where you ignore or sometimes support the vile, hateful screeds against fundies by your supporters yet jump all over Joe or me just for pinning you down on the need to give up all contrary beliefs instead of just adding Jesus to them.

But now that you admit it is impossible to be both Mormon and Christian, you are publicly agreeing to this:

Being reconciled to God through faith alone in Jesus means you MUST give up your former false religious name and beliefs.

If you can agree to this, then surely you realize that all the times in the past when you left out this critical exclusivity of Jesus you were giving a false gospel, a half gospel. Anyone who gives the gospel to a member of a false religion MUST tell them they can't keep being Mormon or Muslim or Buddhist or Hind, or they haven't given the full gospel. Just as an unfaithful spouse who reconciles must give up their former lovers, so also a lost person who reconciles with God must give up their former false gods. It isn't the gospel without this.

It would be most helpful, now that you've come out and said this, that you be sure to tell your supporters that you have been telling a half gospel all this time. And I'll support your charges against Joe when you publicly denounce statements by Gene S., "bill", Debbie and others who have done the following to me: called me insane, called me hateful, mocked me, told me they don't care what I think, openly declared their hatred for me, etc. Your silence toward such statements has sent a clear message that you only complain about harsh words when they come from fundies, while anti-fundies can say any vile thing they want.

If you are indeed agreeing, finally, that salvation means more than adding Jesus to existing beliefs, and you will finally admit to having displayed a double standard when it comes to the behavior of your supporters, then there is a lot of public confession needed to bring closure to this gaping wound in the Body of Christ.

Debbie Kaufman said...

Paula: You have got to be kidding.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Paula - are you for real? Or is this a joke? Are you a troll that is just making this stuff up?

Since you're demanding all of this clarification from Wade, can you please confirm that you've stopped cheating on your husband. I want to know that you are not anymore, and that you agree not to, ever in the future. Once you confirm this, I might need some additional assurances from you, so I can really nail this down.

Paula said...

FBCJ,

What are you talking about? I give links, I point to comments in this very thread, and you want to just ignore it all and then demand more evidence. Wade knows very well that he has defended Carter's statements that Mormons are Christians, and that even to this day he ignores the hate spewing from his supporters while making a big deal out of his critics. He and his supporters have said many times in the hidden comments that all you have to do to be saved is trust Jesus even if you keep your Mormonism or Islam.

And if I'm demanding clarification from Wade, what is that to you?

You Wade cheerleaders are blind as bats and only half as cuddly. There, I said it.

Lydia said...

Lydia: I'm going to let you continue to be curious. :)

October 31, 2010 5:00 AM

When you accuse people of throwing out venom and running when they share the Gospel you should let us know who you are referring to.

Anonymous said...

Paula said...
You, Wade, have a condemning, critical, and judgmental spirit against fundies.

In this Wade may be acting in a Christ-like way. Jesus was most critical of the religious fundies of his day.

Joe Blackmon said...

I believe it is nigh impossible for a Mormon who holds to official Mormon doctrine to be "saved,"

"nigh impossible" does not mean impossible. However, you did answer the question.

Paula said...

"nigh impossible" does not mean impossible. However, you did answer the question.

Good catch. But one must wonder why it took such a very long time. We've been asking this question for probably a year.