"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Tuesday, November 15, 2011

The World According to a Suffering Mega Church Pastor: Mac Says He Never Wanted to Come, and "Only Jesus Can Take Me Outta Here"



"I don't do this because it's fun. You think it's fun to get beat up and made fun of all the time, and accused of this, that, and the other? You think that's fun? You think it's fun to watch your wife and children watch this stuff? You think it's fun, you think it's enjoyable? I'm here because of Jesus Christ, and He's the only one that can take me outta here. I'm here to preach His word, not your word. "

------------------------------
"It ain't easy being green", Kermit the Frog used to sing. Apparently, it ain't easy being a mega church pastor, either. The sacrifices and suffering are almost too much to bear, according to Mac Brunson in his sermon a few weeks ago. Perhaps after preaching out of the book of Job for several months, Mac let the cat out of the bag, that HE is Job, having to endure the hardship of the life of a maligned mega church pastor.

In the video clip above you'll hear Brunson declare to the FBC Jax members:

- their pastor never really wanted to come to pastor FBC Jax, but God "drove him" to be the pastor at FBC Jax;

- the people of FBC Jax didn't "call" him, God called him, and thus only Jesus has the ability to remove him from his position;

- there are plenty of other things he could be doing besides pastoring - and presumably they are darned lucky he has decided to stick to the terrible job of being their "pastor";

- he has suffered tremendously as pastor and his "personhood" has been under constant attack for the past 4 years and thus it has been no fun at all to be their pastor.

Since he came here to FBC Jax Mac has played the role of martyr, starting when Paige Patterson had to ask his students to pray for Mac declaring that Mac never received a honeymoon at FBC Jax. In other instances Mac has seen fit to tell his congregation how terrible his life is as their pastor, telling his peeps "I have to endure more criticism in 30 minutes than you can handle in 6 months". Mac, speak to Jim Smyrl who has held a real job now for 5 months in the business world, about what criticism people deal with everyday.

The fact is the people and leadership of FBC Jax have treated the Brunsons extremely well. Must I recount how well? With jobs for three of the Brunsons, the new office suite, the $307k land gift, and many other perks...and Mac has the freedom to be away from the church to go to many speaking gigs. He really does have it nice here at FBC Jax.

But not everyone is going to love a mega church pastor. Vines and Lindsay knew that. Lindsay was often joked ridiculed in this town, and Vines was raked over the coals for his Mohammad remarks back in 2002.

Perhaps Mac's rant was the result of a Folio Weekly article that ran the week before this sermon that called Mac one of the scariest five people in Jacksonville, and blamed him alone for his church using the sheriff's office in identifying the Watchdog blogger and resulting lawsuit. The article included a cartoon caricature of Mac (at right), angry and foaming at the mouth, a ready-made cut-out Halloween mask. But the article was merely reflecting the disgust that this community has with a church that went to a member, deacon, and discipline committee member - who had investigative subpoena power - to investigate a blogger critical of their pastor. The criticism is understandable, and most people agree it is deserved.

But why tell his congregation that he didn't want to come here? Obviously there was something about FBC Jax that drew him here. He made a career change. People do it all the time. A person doesn't like the job they have, or they are ready for new challenges, or they see a move as beneficial to their family...or maybe there is more money and more perks to the new job. To tell his congregation that he was here only because "God drove me to this place" is not believable, but it helps him put himself on par with other biblical characters whom God spoke to directly.

And why the declaration that the people of FBC Jax "didn't call me here to preach"? That is not true. The people of FBC Jax did vote to have him come. And actually Jesus wouldn't be the one to take him out of FBC Jax. Jesus isn't here in bodily form, and thus he wouldn't be the one. It would be the trustees of the church who would do that. But it makes for great theatrics, and it shows his arrogance in making such a statement to the people who did indeed call him to be their pastor.

And boy, do the people of FBC Jax love it. They hooted and hollered as he wagged his finger in their faces. Why is it that smart people cheer such arrogance when it is on full display on a stage by a grown man?

And as a lay person I'm so sick and tired of hearing pastors pontificate about how their "calling" is so special and above everyone else's calling in life, using the word "surrendered" in terms of their calling. The fact is Mac and other ministers have chosen themselves to be professional, vocational ministers. They are called just like a Christian may be "called" to be a teacher or lawyer or doctor. But these men are trained in seminary to believe they are God's agents, appointed to save all of us from our ignorance, as Al Mohler preached at FBC Jax earlier this year.

Too bad that Mac views himself as a victim and martyr as the pastor of FBC Jax. He leads a blessed life. His wife and son work with him at church, he has a beautiful home in Jax, and beach home in St. Augustine. He probably will have the freedom to bring his son-in-law to FBC Jax in the near future on staff. He has a congregation that really has endured a lot in the past 4 years with the negative publicity that has come their way under Brunson's leadership - yet they still love and adore their pastor, they still give generously, and they responded to his call for acts of service in the Arms Around Jacksonville.

And they still applaud and hoot and holler when he preaches.

What more could a pastor want?

80 comments:

Ludie said...

So would you agree or disagree that the responsibility of pastor is the highest calling a Christian can have?

New BBC Open Forum said...

What more could a pastor want?

More of the same, of course. More money, more power, more fame, more applause. More, more, more! Their egos must be constantly fed.

Anonymous said...

Yep, we get the exact same thing at Bellevue. The pastor lives a life-style that 99% of the congregation would envy. Yet, somehow he gets away with claiming that he's a martyr.

For instance, one Sunday he just announces that he will not be preaching any longer on Wednesday nights. He says it is to spend more time with his family.

Later we find out that he is spending his Wednesday nights preaching at other churches.

I would like the option to announce that I would be taking off one day a week at my job to spend more time with my family.

Anonymous said...

WD - This kind of activity is preasent when a person is being de programmed, partly due to your ministory. God speed!

Anonymous said...

Members didn't have much to say in the matter. A Search Committee made the choice for Brunson to come and he was treated like royalty. When Trey became engaged the Sunday School classes took up a "cash offering"...the Brunson held a reception in the dining room for a meet & greet (of course with gifts) and the deacons gave the couple a shower at a country club. So much "money" has gone to this family!

The publication article was right on - Mac is scary, when you toss people off of "God's property you have an evil heart, and Mac will never regain respect in this community.

Anonymous said...

While I may not agree with everything Mac says or even like him personally, your bias radiates all through this post.

First of all, God calls men to preach whether you think so or not. And if you think its all roses then you are sadly deluded. You should have to put up with some Baptists and all their tricks and inuendos. And some of the things church members do to pastors' wives and children and is unspeakable.

Just don't get on your high horse so quickly. Just because you have a blog doesn't make you an expert on all church matters or Biblical teachings.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon 10:14 - not saying a pastor's life is "all roses" - but it ain't the life of Job either as portrayed by Brunson.

Being a leader of any organization has its downside. Part of it is criticism, 2nd guessing by arm-chair quarterbacks, etc. It goes with the territory.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

It doesn't take long for someone at FBC Jax to hit the blog after a post. Somebody's gonna get fired. :)

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Anonymous said...

"You should have to put up with some Baptists and all their tricks and inuendos."

You mean like using a police officer on staff to uncover someone's identity and then serve them (and their wife) with trespass papers?

Are those the kind of tricks you are referring to?

Anonymous said...

"So would you agree or disagree that the responsibility of pastor is the highest calling a Christian can have?"

Before answering a loaded question like that, you would need to establish that a modern-day senior "pastor" is even a position of authority recognized in scripture.

Who were the paid senior pastors of the first century churches?

Surely their names were mentioned if this was God's highest calling.

Anonymous said...

Why did people riot at Penn State? They faced with a grand jury report, still choose to believe that their chosen man could do no wrong. Same, same, same with our churches. We do not question anything ever. Mac is a good person who I'm sure loves God and family. But he is consumed with ego and power. I'm disgusted with the folks at FBC Jax that hooted and hollered support for his nonsense just like I was watching the Penn State riot. Try thinking about people who really have a tough life. Mac's does not.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"he (Steve Gaines) will not be preaching any longer on Wednesday nights. He says it is to spend more time with his family."

Now his children are gone, and he still won't preach on Wednesday's nights. (In fact there is only a chapel service now, with many smaller "help me" classes)

He even takes off on Sundays, to visit family and preach in their small church.
http://brushyforkbaptist.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/photo.jpg

While the rest of the church staff is only allow off 2 Sundays a year.

Rough Life for the "highest calling a Christian can have?"

Anonymous said...

"You should have to put up with some Baptists and all their tricks and inuendos."

You mean like telling the paper that one of your critics is a sociopath?

Anonymous said...

This isnt even worth commenting about. Oops I just did....wow so much illness, poverty, no jobs, divorce, killings, rape, drugs, alcohol, prostitution, just to name a few and ole Mac is whining and kicking and screaming his way to Jax. He should be ashamed.

Anonymous said...

Pastor the highest calling of a Christian?

Disagree.

And if it was meant to be, it was never intended to create the kind of caste system that exists in the church today.

Thy Peace said...

What more could a pastor want?

You mean, especially Mac B?

Why, Yes. He wants to be like the Supereme Leader of Iran, Ali Khamenei or cold ruthless billionaire who bought his way into the mayor’s office.

Then he can dispose of Watchdog, with the help of Gestapo, er the police.

Anonymous said...

"Visit Length 0 seconds"

If the visit length is zero wouldn't that mean no one had enough time to look at the post?

David said...

Hely Dawg, just a few words for which you have no understanding or life experience to draw upon:
Surrender
Calling
Leading

Perhaps that is because you are so consumed stalking Mac and Jax (like how that rhymes)that you cannot hear from the Holy Spirit. Maybe you can explain to us blogging peeps how rough you have had the past 4 years?

Bojac said...

"arms around Jacksonville" it may be more accurate to say "hands in pockets of Jacksonville". it does seem to me that some pastors want the celebrity status forgetting what comes with that position. I well remember when Joel Gregory left first church in Dallas. The man to me showed true integrity in the stance he took. It did cost him much more than many pastors would be willing to pay. I don't know what Jesus will do with mac but just hope he will be submissive.

Anonymous said...

You never fail to disappoint dawg. This article is a new low and for you ... a new high. Get a life and an English book.

Anonymous said...

That sermon reminds me of when mega-rich Hollywood movie stars complain about people hassling them for autographs. It's laughable.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't take long for someone at FBC Jax to hit the blog after a post. Somebody's gonna get fired. :)


Well it is what it is. BTW I do not see any disclaimers on your website. (Heh Heh)

Anonymous said...

You, sir, are calling down the wrath of God upon yourself. Please stop.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I agree....David, please stop. :)

Anonymous said...

Why do you people continue to put up with this?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 said...

Pastor Mac Brunson said: “And he’s the only one [who can] take me outta here.” [2m:37s – 2m:42s]

So Mr. Brunson believes that only Mashiyach Yehoshua himself can strip him of his position as Senior Pastor? If so, then by what basis does he make this claim? And why do the members of First Baptist Church of Jacksonville believe this claim?

Seneca Griggs said...

Has Mac lost some weight? That photo looks like his face is thinner.
Best I've seen him look.

Anonymous said...

I see that one went over your head.

What would you do if someone said or did something that cost you your job... your families soul source of income? Hypothetically, of course...

You can really live with that?

Anonymous said...

"Has Mac lost some weight?"

Yes, he certainly does sound like a light-weight in that video clip.

"That photo looks like his face is thinner."

Same can be said for his hair.

Way to focus on the issue Seneca (fake name). Good job.

Anonymous said...

We interrupt this blog-cast to bring you this important message:


Rick Warren
"6 yrs ago today, great pastor, mentor & dear friend @AdrianRogers died. Psalm 101:6"

Anonymous said...

It doesn't take long for someone at FBC Jax to hit the blog after a post. Somebody's gonna get fired. :)


Let me be a little clearer. It appears that you are rooting for someone to lose their jobs. How do you know that your unintended target is someone other than the ministerial staff that you obviously hate.

You need to think some things through.

Anonymous said...

What would life at FBC-Jax be like if God had called, say . . . Wade Burleson there as pastor? I think readers here know what life at FBC would be like. Maybe He will . . .

Look, "Stupid is as stupid does." No stupid done, no stupid thought present. It's as simple as that.

Always respect the office of pastor. Most of the time, the person in that office, too--but only if he's serving the church faithfully and maturely and without heavy-handed authority the Bible doesn't teach.

And that from a person who is one!

Anonymous said...

Why has God never "called" or "drove" Mac to accept a position at a smaller church? Ever? Period? Sheesh. How gullible and stupid does he think we are?

Anonymous said...

Watchdog,

I like you post 95% of the time. Yes you do feel like Job sometimes as a pastor but my motto is if you have to stand and announce that you are a martyr then maybe you are not. Always watch the hand that pats its self on the back.

Also as a small church pastor I believe I can write a book and call it when church ladies attack. Also I must confess I might be one of these silver spoon pastors. My first car was a 83 Cadallac Sedan Deville which I bought in 1998.

Yours Trolly,
The Most Honorable Irrelevant Bro. Pastor

Anonymous said...

One afternoon in the Spring of 2005, in a friendly and candid conversation, I asked Mac about a particular challenge he encountered during the planning for the Criswell Center in Dallas. I asked about one particular incident.

He replied, "Let me tell you...I've had a church that's been wantin' me that makes this place look like small potatoes..." (it's been a few years, so that's not verbatim...he may have said "peanuts".)

I knew from another source that he was referring to Jax. I just failed to understand what that had to do with the situation I had asked about.

Needless to say, later when he told the Dallas church about the vision he had while he was in Israel, I knew it was balderdash and that he'd been in discussions with Jax for months and months.

So, when he says that he didn't want to go to Jax, and that God forced him there...needless to say I don't believe that either.

Anonymous said...

"So would you agree or disagree that the responsibility of pastor is the highest calling a Christian can have?"

Ludie, Read 1 Corinthians without Mac's filters. The eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of you.

"Pastor" is mentioned ONCE in the NT, btw. What you are thinking of is a position that was created by man.

Anonymous said...

"Always respect the office of pastor."

The word "office" is not in the Greek. It was added by translators. Pastor is a function within the Body. Not an office. But then you would know that if you actually studied on your own and did not always take the word of a "pastor"

Anonymous said...

"Why has God never "called" or "drove" Mac to accept a position at a smaller church? Ever? Period?"

Good point. God NEVER calls celebrity mega church pastors to small churches and huge cuts in salary and giving up the big house and cruises down the Danube....

Anonymous said...

http://www.amazon.com/Pastor-Has-No-Clothes-Clergy-Centered/dp/0982744641

Some fbcjax people on this blog need to read Jon Zens book about the pastorate. It does not pay to be so ignorant on this subject. WE are all called to "ministry" in some form and we all have "anointing" (1 John) if we are true believers. Some of your are worshiping man and what you think is an "office". Please do not stay ignorant. Study on your own.

Anonymous said...

I see a man that is hurting.

I see a man that is in pain.

I see a man that loves Jesus.

I see a man that has made mistakes.

I see a man that is gifted.

I see a man that struggles.

I see a man that has been betrayed, belittled by a coward, and GOD will be Mac's Protector.

Get thee behind me SATAN!

Thy Peace said...

Emmanuel - Enid > James > The Real Way to Get Ahead (James 4:10) [1998 ?]

Anonymous said...

I see a man who sounds like a whiner.

Anonymous said...

There is another implication to what Mac said. I think he might be a tad worried. But if he can convince the pew sitters that it would be s sin to remove him because only God can remove him, then he has a bit more job security.

However, the flaw in his thinking is that God most often works through people for His purposes. But he does not want you all to think that way. It would be a disaster for him if the pew sitters were led by the Holy Spirit and actually studied on their own.

Anonymous said...

There is another implication to what Mac said. I think he might be a tad worried. But if he can convince the pew sitters that it would be s sin to remove him because only God can remove him, then he has a bit more job security.

However, the flaw in his thinking is that God most often works through people for His purposes. But he does not want you all to think that way. It would be a disaster for him if the pew sitters were led by the Holy Spirit and actually studied on their own.

JC said...

Watchdog,
My only concern with the post is that you said Jim finally had a "real job." I am a 3rd generation pastor, and I can tell you it is as "real" as it comes. Granted, I am not a mega-pastor, but I work very hard at my "real job". I would like a clarification on what was meant by that. Once again, I am not bashing you but I would like some clarification. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

"Get thee behind me SATAN!"

Hey, the church lady is leaving comments on this blog.

Thy Peace said...

I would encourage readers to listen to Wade's sermon on James 4:10 in the link provided above. At least listen to the last 5 minutes of the sermon on how Wade got to be a preacher. Now contrast that with what Mac is saying.

Larry Geiger said...

"So would you agree or disagree that the responsibility of pastor is the highest calling a Christian can have?"

No. The highest calling a Christian can have is...

Of course to be a Christian.

Christians are given, or "called", to certain jobs, roles and ministeries. The highest calling is servant. "The greatest among you will be your servant." Matt 23:11.

Anonymous said...

That video broke my heart.

I am sorry Pastor for what is being done to you.

I am sorry for the multitudes that read this tabloid trash.

I am sorry that you have been harassed and mistreated by the very ones that you love.

We are honored to have you as our Spiritual Leader and I hope you have a great day today!

Anonymous said...

Just curious. If you are disagreeing with the call of pastors, what do you do with Paul's instructions to Timothy and Titus to set up elders?

Anonymous said...

Usually people who have problems with pastors being called also have problems with authority in their lives. Just a quick observation.

Anonymous said...

"That video broke my heart."

That was exactly the reaction he was looking for.

"I am sorry Pastor for what is being done to you."

You mean like being given a huge land gift after telling other young pastors not to take gifts from members? Or is the huge salary that no one is allowed to know about? Or is it the trips down the Danube? Which part would you say is the worst?

"I am sorry for the multitudes that read this tabloid trash."

Would you include yourself in that statement since you obviously read the story and left a comment?

"I am sorry that you have been harassed and mistreated by the very ones that you love."

It could have been worse. He could have been handed trespass papers and never been allowed back on the property.

"We are honored to have you as our Spiritual Leader and I hope you have a great day today!"

Since he doesn't read this blog and demands that his congregation doesn't either, how would he ever get your message?

You are correct.
You are sorry.

Anonymous said...

"Just curious. If you are disagreeing with the call of pastors, what do you do with Paul's instructions to Timothy and Titus to set up elders?"

I would interpret it in context.

Notice the term "elders" is plural. Elders were not full-time salaried orators who were not to be questioned. They were unpaid servants.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 said...

Ludie (November 15, 2011 9:33 AM) said: “So would you agree or disagree that the responsibility of pastor is the highest calling a Christian can have?

David (November 15, 2011 12:56 PM) said: “Hely [sic] Dawg, just a few words for which you have no understanding or life experience to draw upon:
Surrender
Calling
Leading

Anonymous (November 16, 2011 2:57 PM) said:

“That video broke my heart.

I am sorry Pastor for what is being done to you.

I am sorry for the multitudes that read this tabloid trash.

I am sorry that you have been harassed and mistreated by the very ones that you love.

We are honored to have you as our Spiritual Leader and I hope you have a great day today!”

Anonymous (November 16, 2011 4:05 PM) said: “Usually people who have problems with pastors being called also have problems with authority in their lives. Just a quick observation.”

[All emphases mine.]


Hmmm. When I read these four quotes together, I notice a preoccupation with the authority of the Pastor.

Given the context of these comments being replies to FBC Jax Watchdog’s criticism of Pastor Mac Brunson, I don’t understand exactly why churchgoers like the members of First Baptist Church of Jacksonville are preoccupied with the Pastor’s authority to the point of seemingly unqualified submission to it. Can someone explain why this is the case to me please? Exactly what beliefs underlie this preoccupation with the authority of the Pastor?

Anonymous said...

"Usually people who have problems with pastors being called also have problems with authority in their lives. Just a quick observation.

November 16, 2011 4:05 PM

==============================
And my observation is the percentage of deacons & bible teachers who have divorced & remarried, some up to 3 times, whose kids are addict's, unmarried with babies also have some serious problems with authority running their own homes - and then they want to be leaders & give others spiritual advice.

Thy Peace said...

Wade Burleson > The Prosperity Gospel's Fundamental Flaw Is Its Faith in Faith

Control.

That's the operative word that describes what people want. We all want control. Christian people want to believe that if they just have enough faith, and then exercise that faith by planting a financial seed (to the televangelist's ministry of course), that they
control their futures.

Anonymous said...

Our Pastor came to Jax and he did not want to come here, God made him.

He told us that this has been the worst place he has ever been in his life.

Never has he had the kind of satanic opposition like he has experienced here.

I agree with him...

I hate this town,
I hate this blog,
I hate Dogs,
I hate all the critics,
I hate the whiners,

BECAUSE GOD HATES IT..

AND I HATE WHAT HE HATES.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

please do not feed that troll. He has a very specific signature in his posts, and he is the one that posts outlandish remarks to get a response. So please ignore.

Anonymous said...

8:58 Anon,

The phrase "Shut up" also isn't in the Greek, but might still be a good idea . . . You get the point.

Anonymous said...

Mac told me once that there were over 20 churches calling him when FBC Jax came knocking.

If he is so bad and such a terrible person, why all the attention? Why does he speak all over the world?

This blog is the 1% and we the people are the 99%.

Pastor is helping occupy Heaven...

His critics are sending people to Hell.

Anonymous said...

Consider the members of FBC as sheep, lemmings, whatever you think of them.

We are talking about adults and we're accountable for our own decisions...

Mac will be held for his, and you for yours.

If someone held me under a microscope, recorded every word I said and could analyze every utterance... That would just be plain ugly.

Leading a mega-church... Ha, I can barely lead myself!

I haven't read anything ground-breaking about Mac's actions, or lack thereof. He is in a elevated leadership position, he shows nepotism...

Shocked? Guess what, he's also a sinner.
Just like the rest of us.
Romans 03:23

Ultimately, if we are expecting this man to be perfect, then we can count on one thing... Perpetual disappointment.

Only one man that walked this earth and done so without transgression.

Matthew 7:3

New BBC Open Forum said...

Local megachurch goes green... with unintended results.

I suspect the reaction from Mac or Steve would be just as swift if the "executive compensation" list of FBC Jax or Bellevue were to be leaked.

WishIhadknown said...

Classic rhetorical devises create a false attack so that you elicit sympathy from your followers then dehumanize your critics so that your followers feel justified in attacking the critics. Don’t remember our Lord Jesus using those devices. In fact, as I recall, he was long suffering even unto death.

The preacher needs to practice what I am sure he has preached in at least one of his sermons and “count your many blessings.”

The preacher makes a nice six figure salary that is probably more than five times that of the families in his church.

The preacher lives in an exclusive gated community in a house that is probably three times the size of the average home of the members of the church.

The preacher is surrounded by only the people he chooses.

Any criticism he hears is entirely voluntary.

Does anybody know how much you have to give to be able to call the preacher’s cell phone?

The preacher only works when he wants to.

The preacher has gifts lavished on him without having to give an accounting to the church.

The preacher and his family can travel anywhere at any time and the church pays for it.

The preacher is part of a highly loyal and protective network that guarantees he will always have a place to go and an audience to speak to.

I could go on.

You and your preacher should get out a work a real job and then you will know what it is like to really suffer false attacks and criticism.

WishIhadknown said...

“Usually people who have problems with pastors being called also have problems with authority in their lives. Just a quick observation.”
Guess Jesus had the same problem with authority; given his multiple and severe criticism of the religious leaders of his day. Just a quick observation.

Anonymous said...

The biggest joke is you actually trying to equate yourself with Jesus.

WishIhadknown said...

Not saying I am anything like Jesus but I am trying to follow his example. Or to put it another way, dissent is not unspiritual.

WishIhadknown said...

Question.
Coming from a point of view that misery is optional, why would you want a man as pastor who says he, “never wanted to come?” Are there no other men available who would love to come? Are there no other men who would truly love to pastor and serve the people of FBCJ?

Seneca Griggs said...

I heard, but cannot absolutely confirm, that FBCJax wanted Mac from the get-go. Early on they persuaded them to come and visit Jacksonville. After the visit, the Brunsons TURNED DOWN the opportunity (rumor had it Mrs. B. preferred Dallas).

It was the second go around a good year later that persuaded the Brunsons to come.

Thy Peace said...

Off Topic: Some interesting posts in the blogosphere ...

Stop Baptist Predators [Christa Brown] > Theologian-in-residence puts ignorance on display

SBC Plodder [William Thornton] > Put down the Bible, pick up the phone, call the cops

ABP News [Bob Allen] > Yale professor cites similarities between Mormons, Southern Baptists

Anonymous said...

I don't think that there are 20 Baptist Churches in the world that would seriously consider calling the pastor of FBC Dallas.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 said...

Anonymous (November 16, 2011 10:43 PM) said: “Consider the members of FBC as sheep, lemmings, whatever you think of them.”

While it is tempting to wave my hand and dismiss them as just that, doing so does not answer any questions. While Pastors often express why they think that they desire one’s submission, I have yet to hear churchgoers themselves like the members of First Baptist Church of Jacksonville explain exactly why they submit to their Pastor to the extent which they do.

Different perspectives on the authority of the Pastor can be underlain by much different beliefs.

But I do often wonder if they have this oversimplistic belief that you must submit to your Pastor because his is the Pastor and that is that.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 said...

BTW, my apologies for my typos. They are slipping past me. :-(

/Grrrr.

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Another one...

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The dominoes are tumbling, folks.

Anonymous said...

I guess people believe that it's all some deeply spiritual thing run by God, when it comes to where pastors preach. I'd think it would be quite disillusioning if they saw the details of how it actually takes place. Doesn't the church have a say in who becomes their pastor? What about contracts, employment details like salary, benefits, etc. It all sounds pretty human to me. It's a job, just like any other CEO has.

I think that aspect-claiming it's all a spiritual thing-is the most arrogant, off-putting thing about it.

It seems also that if a pastor stands up there and says that no one can remove him but Jesus himself? How arrogant and threatening can you get? So of course the church can't try to get rid of him, because they'd be on the devil's side then, right? It's really absurd that people sit and listen to such and go along with that set-up.

What if some Republican candidate won the Presidency and said that God put them there and only he can remove them-nothing to do with term limits or the will of the people or how the government is set up.

Plus if God called you somewhere, wouldn't you take that so seriously that you'd not even take a salary, much less tons of perks for doing the job GOD called you to do?

Oh, and I don't think God would like you standing up there complaining about this job that is so important and special that He wants only you to do it.

Anonymous said...

1 Thessalonians 5:21 said...
"Exactly what beliefs underlie this preoccupation with the authority of the Pastor?"

According to Steve Gaines, you need the Authority to Cast out Demons

right Donna....

Anonymous said...

Amen

Keep Preachin Brother

Anonymous said...

I'll have a Bic Mac and fries!

Marcus Dandrea said...

You people are really ungrateful. Pastor Mac is a really good person and great pastor. Alll you do is criticize and put him down and pretty much hate him, why?
If you don't bring up your issue with him first then you have no business posting it up for everyone to see.
It is difficult enough being a pastor. Satan pesters them more than he does any of us.
It really looks like you have a problem, like instead of talking to God, you talk to other spirits for advice. That's probably not a good idea since familiar spirits usually end up being demons.
You should repent and apologize for all this nonsense.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 said...

Marcus Dandrea (November 24, 2011 11:25 PM) said: “Pastor Mac is a really good person and great pastor. Alll [sic] you do is criticize and put him down and pretty much hate him, why?”

But on the same point, why do you feel the need to defend him, especially given the questionable things which he has said and done?


Marcus Dandrea (November 24, 2011 11:25 PM) said: “If you don't bring up your issue with him first then you have no business posting it up for everyone to see.”

So in order to criticize a Pastor of a church which one does not belong to, one must go through the said church’s internal disciplinary process against the said Pastor? If so, then would this required practice not keep criticisms of the said Pastor within his church and, thus, censored?


Marcus Dandrea (November 24, 2011 11:25 PM) said: “It is difficult enough being a pastor. Satan pesters them more than he does any of us.”

How do you know this? Because you assume that the Pastor is always the most important person among Christians in general? If so, why?

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