Sutton Ousted at Two Rivers: Lessons for Brunson and FBC Jax - Part 1

One of the most shocking stories thus far in 2008 in the SBC is the rapid demise of Dr. Jerry Sutton at Two-Rivers Baptist Church in Nashville, Tennessee. This past Sunday, the church overwhelming approved an "early retirement" package valued at $314,000 to move beyond the fiasco that unfolded at that church over the past few years.

This story should send shockwaves through the SBC, particularly to those pastors at large to mega sized churches that operate with very little accountability and openness and transparency to their members - like Mac Brunson. I will not go into specific commentary in this article on what I believe these lessons are; I first want to just share information with the FBC Jax members to read to become more familiar with the chain of events that led to Sutton's inability to continue to lead his church. The story involves questions of financial accountability, pastor's salary, getting answers to financial questions, church discipline against those seeking the answers, and expelling of church members seeking those answers. Sutton won a few battles, but he lost the ultimate war - and so did his church. Sutton was not caught in open sin, had very high morals and integrity - but the manner in which information was shared or not shared, and how he treated those with legitimate questions and concerns, ultimately led to most everyone at the church agreeing his ability to lead the church was seriously eroded.

What makes his relatively sudden departure from Two Rivers so remarkable is that just two years ago Sutton was almost elected as president of the SBC! He was the conservative-resurrgence crowd favorite to win the presidency in 2006 (after serving two terms as SBC vice president), but was defeated by Frank Page of South Carolina. Sutton was very popular at his church, and enjoyed a 22 year tenure as pastor, and was incredibly well-connected to the leaders of the SBC many of whom he pastored - now he is out of a job, the church is straddled with paying him a huge severance, and their church must now start the rebuilding process after a very public, ugly church fight.

Later this week I will post what I think the lessons are from Two Rivers that need to be gleaned by Mac Brunson, our lay leaders, and the FBC Jax congregation at large. But for now I hope that my readers will do some research to see just what happened at this church, and think about the application of this mess to our own church's situation.

Watchdog's Blog from May on Two Rivers - this was made just after the "recalcintrants" were kicked out of the church by Sutton.

TwoRiversInfo.org - the website of the "recalcitrants" who demanded financial accountability at Two Rivers. You will see here the questions the church members had over the church's handling of finances.

Tennessean News Article on Sutton Departure

Baptist Press Article on the Early Retirement - contains interesting quotes from Sutton's letter to his congregation about the vote and his recognition that he must leave for the church's own good.

Associated Baptist Press Article Just Prior to Early Retirement Vote

Baptist Life Discussion Forum on the Issue

Tennessean Article on Lawsuit Over Financial Records

2006 Baptist Press Article Announcing Sutton Candidacy for SBC President

Florida Baptist Witness October 2007 Article About Church Vote to Affirm Sutton - this shows just how far and fast Sutton fell from grace.

Part 2....specific lessons from this story for FBC Jax...later in the week. Some questions to consider: In hindsight, do you think Jerry Sutton would handle things differently when first questioned about church finances? If he had it to do over again, would Jerry Sutton still seek the ouster of these church members? Did removal of the "recalcitrants" free the church to move forward? Who or what was the problem at Two Rivers - was it troublesome, meddling church members wanting questions answered, or was it the church leadership's failure to respond appropriately to the questions?

Mac Delivers a Great Sermon on a Difficult Subject

Mac Brunson gave one of his best sermons Sunday night July 27th. He dealt with the subject of the sin of homosexuality. Certainly not a topic that many preachers today want to deal with, but he took it head on, preaching out of Romans 2.

I won't comment much on it, other than to say it is definitely worth listening to. He will likely have it posted on his 501(c)3 website www.inlight.org by Tuesday.

Mac didn't waiver one bit on the sin of homosexuality, describing how we arrived at the position we are today where the society is embracing this sin as normal, what this says about our nation's relationship to God. I had never heard this said before, but Mac said that throughout the bible homosexuality is a "signal sin" - that when this sin becomes prevalent and accepted in a culture it shows just how depraved the society has gotten, and that God has to some degree removed his hands from the situation.

But Mac at the end of the sermon, did an incredible job of preaching about man's response should be to the sin itself - that is what a person who struggles in this area should do. It really was a classic - a preacher trying to encourage his people to fight, to wage war against all sin in their lives through the Holy Spirit.

Excellent sermon Mac. Keep 'em coming.

Nobody Knows the Trouble Mac's Seen...

Just a few clips from Sunday 7/20, in the evening service.

Clip #1: Here Mac announces how he can determine the attitude of mom and dad based on spending a few minutes with a teenager. Listen to this clip. So if you have a rebellious teenager, keep him/her away from the Brunsons else Mac will assume you're filling your teenager with "garbage". Oh, notice that Mac explains how important, how contagious attitude is - all the while why he does with an arrogant, angry attitude. Priceless.

Clip #2: More than any preacher I've heard, Mac seems to want to tell his congregation on a regular basis how tough it is to be pastor of his church. No question pastors have pressures...but I mean to hear Mac describe his lot you'd think that he bears the weight of the free world on his shoulders. Its tiring Mac - just do your job, and quit telling us how we don't have a clue what we would do if we pastored the church. We do have an idea of things we would NOT do that you have done.

Mac says something in the clip that is very curious, and doesn't really make sense: "I can tell you something...its a position [FBC Jax pastor] where the weight of temptation is greater than anything you can imagine. You don't know, you don't have a clue." That is odd; "weight of temptation"? Whatever does he mean? Temptation to do what? Accept large gifts, put wife and son on staff, hold Israeli fundraisers, change bylaws with no explanations to the congregation? I guess Mac sure didn't hold up under those temptations, he gave in to every one!

Mac says in the quote that he has to "deal with more criticism in 30 minutes than you can handle in 6 months." Mac let me tell you something - the more you speak as though you know what life is like for the average person in your church the more painfully obvious it is that you don't have a clue. You don't understand that the pressures and criticism you face are likely nothing like the pressure the average working stiff in your congregation faces. Most people at work face intense competition from peers, demanding customers, supervisors who are pushing harder and harder, companies cutting back jobs and salaries from a troubled economy, and a paycheck shrinking as life's expenses increase without much of a raise if any. No one at work tells Joe Blow that they're "God's man"...they don't get to choose their supervisors...they don't have people lining up to give them free gifts, and they work in companies with strict nepotism rules forbidding them to hire their family members in their same office, and alas they must leave Fido at home. So PLEASE quit your bellyaching to us Mac about how hard things are; most of the pressure you feel now is likely you're own doing, the result of poor decisions you've made as pastor that you've never attempted to explain or apologize for. Your bellyaching falls on deaf ears - you have your family working with you, you have a lavish office suite with your wife, secretary, and dogs in the office. You rub elbows with the rich and powerful at Deerwood in your million dollar home and even though you abuse your congregation week after week people still love you and worship you. So you have a few recalcitrants giving you a hard time week after week about your poor leadership. Get over it. You have the keys to the church, and a flock of gullible sheep that will follow you anywhere.

Life ain't that bad Mac. But maybe as you say at FBC Jax you're in the "place of preparation" for something bigger. We could only hope.

Sheri Klouda's Response to Patterson and Brunson

Below is the response of Dr. Sheri Klouda, in its entirety, that I received this afternoon. At right is her picture that she has allowed me to post. Many of you who have stayed up with her case maybe don't know what she looks like - she is not just a name in a news article or in a blog - I am glad we can show her picture. She is writing this in response to Mac Brunson's sermon Sunday night, and to clarify things said on this blog and other blogs.

Before posting her response, a few comments are in order.

This blog is primarily about FBC Jax and the pastorship of Dr. Donald "Mac" Brunson. Has been, always will be. The issue of "Sheri Klouda vs. SWBTS and Paige Patterson" has made its way to my blog because of the decision of Mac Brunson himself. On Sunday July 13th, in the Sunday evening service at First Baptist Church Jacksonville, to the good people of FBC Jax Mac Brunson either maliciously lied, or careless perpetuated a lie told to him by Paige Patterson's attorney during a "trip to Greece", about Sheri Klouda's testimony in her case and her views of her case as it pertains to scripture in 1 Corinthians 6. I blogged about this here; and click here for audio of the clip where Mac perpetuates the lie.

Those of you who are familiar with Sheri Klouda's case through the baptist news agencies and the blogosphere will read in her own words below her story contradicting stories told about a supposed job offer made by Paige Patterson; even one anonymous blogger here who blamed her hardships suffered from this lawsuit on Dr. Klouda herself for not taking a similar job offered by Patterson. And she of course explains her real views of her case in light of 1 Corinthians 6 and other relevant scripture - which shows how Mac Brunson completely misrepresented her views.

Finally, I can say I was absolutely sickened to read her testimony of how she was wronged by Paige Patterson and the subsequent suffering her family has had to endure. And now to read her own words confirming the lies that have been told about her dismissal, and now to know that our own pastor, Donald McCall Brunson has decided to insert himself into this and use his influence and power, and the prestige associated with our church name, to further perpetuate lies about this good woman, I am OUTRAGED. Shame on you Mac Brunson. Its clear that Dr. Klouda harbors no animosity toward the people involved, but feels the need to set the records straight.

Here is her response:

To All of Those Who Have Responded:

I would first like to mention that the court documents for the Klouda/Patterson depositions are publicly available in Fort Worth, should anyone wish to look at them, which should support my claims.

I would like to put some rumors to rest, if I may.

First, I was never offered another permanent position with the same salary and benefits. The only position I was offered was temporary, and would only last until my pending dismissal in December of 2006. I begged Dr. Patterson to find a place for me at the seminary several times, and I would have taken anything I was offered, given my husband's rapidly declining health and the need to financially support my family. I was desperate. We just bought a home based on the premise that I was hired on tenure track and would be given the same opportunities as other professors to apply and achieve tenure. My daughter was already in high school, and all of my family, including my elderly grandparents, parents and my siblings all reside in the area. There is no document related to this new position, nor was anything ever produced to support this claim.

Second, Paige Patterson testified that several students came to him complaining that I was "teaching the Bible," soon after he decided he would eventually terminate me. However, he took no notes, has no records, no emails, and does not know the names of the students that accused me of this.

Third, I was hired for the teaching position by the board of trustees, who felt that I was qualified to undertake these responsibilities. It was only a year after Paige became president that he decided to begin the process of eliminating my role, stating that I was unqualified to teach only because of my gender. As far as I can see, you cannot have it both ways.

Fourth,the case was dismissed not because the facts were disputed, but on the basis of the separation of church and state. In other words, the deposition makes it quite clear what the grounds of my dismissal were, and they had nothing to do with my performance. In addition, the role of a faculty member in a seminary is considered to fall under a ministerial exception, consequently, the law views me as a "minister." Ironically, I was dismissed because as a woman, I was not "qualified to be a minister." Paige did not mind taking advantage of that judgment even though he states categorically that I am not qualified to be a "minister."

While it is true that the lawyer had me read I Corinthians 6, I responded that "it appears to suggest that one should avoid bringing suit against another believer," however, I clarified this by explaining that this declaration assumes the wronging party will do the right thing to the one accusing him, or that other believers will compel the wrongdoer to respond appropriately. In addition, the Old Testament, which is part of our Bible, institutes and discusses at length judges, courts, and suits as stipulations approved by God and put in place to protect the individual in a believing community from harm by another. The Bible constantly addresses powerful people taking advantage of those who are less powerful Not only did I go to Dr. Patterson and ask him to treat me fairly several times, since I did nothing to deserve losing my job, and in fact, was serving in that role by the approval of the board and those in authority, but other believers went to him on my behalf to try and obtain justice and grace. I was asked if I knew that there were church mediation places set up specifically for the purpose of resolving these matters between believers, and I acknowledged that if I had known that option was available, I would have tried that approach. While I do not know Pastor Brunson personally, and I have never met the man, even though I taught junior high Sunday School for five years, he or anyone else (a deacon, an administrator, somebody who would care?) from FBD never advised me or discussed what happened to me, or counseled me as to what to do. No one in my own church came forward once when my husband was ill, or expressed any concern about out situation at all apart from a few of the adults who taught junior high.

As a result of Dr. Patterson's unilateral decision, we lost all of the equity in our house and sold it for less than we paid for it since we couldn't afford the payments any longer. I lost all of my years towards tenure, some of my life insurance, retirement for two years, and took a reduction in pay equivalent to $15,000 a year. My husband lost his job of 12 years, and took a job that paid half of what he received in Dallas. His heart condition is inoperable (he had another heart attack in November), and he needs a defibrillator put in to restart his heart when he suffers heart attacks. We are still trying to pay off those medical bills so that he can get the procedure done before he has a major attack. He must either apply for early retirement (at the reduced amount) or try to apply for disability, which takes approximately 808 days in Indiana before approval. He will have no life insurance, and we will have even less income. We of course, have no money to buy a home since we lost all of our equity in the Dallas sale. We are already going month to month, and I am very concerned about how to proceed. Somehow by the grace of God and his provision we will make it. I hardly think this constitutes "whining," and I did not "refuse" any position at the seminary.

Finally, I just want to reaffirm, I am still Southern Baptist at heart, and I harbor no hard feelings towards anyone involved.

Blessings in Christ,

Sheri Klouda

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FBC Jax Members and other Watchdog readers: if you feel led to donate money to help the Klouda's, Pastor Wade Burleson has already set up a benevolence fund where 100% of all recepits will be given to the Klouda's, and your gift will be tax deductible. Send your gifts to:

Emmanuel Baptist Church

2505 West Garriott

Enid, Oklahoma 73703

Designate your gift "Sheri Klouda Fund". FBC Jax, let's not be defined by what Mac Brunson SAYS, but by what we, the people of FBC Jax, DO. Let's show real Christian love and help the Klouda's.

Mac a "Historian"? More Evidence of his Difficulty Telling the Truth

This past Sunday, once again we were treated to the historical exaggerations and misrepresentations of Mac Brunson. Its hard to believe that this is coming from the "holy desk" of First Baptist Jacksonville, once the flagship church of the Southern Baptist Convention where the Bible was faithfully preached and care was taken to proclaim TRUTH. Mac uses the sacred desk to tell a lie about one of his own sheep, perhaps to help bolster the image of his friend Paige Patterson among those at FBC Jax. He now I think has demonstrated that he has a harder time dealing with historical facts than Hillary Clinton - and like Clinton he thinks that just because he says something we're all going to believe it is so.

Sunday night Mac Brunson preached a sermon on church discipline from 1 Corinthians. In the first 2 minutes of his sermon, Mac commented on 1 Corinthians 6, where Paul describes one of the problems of the church in Corinth being that of legal disputes between believers. While not the central verse of his message, Mac said this was an example of just how low the Corinthian church had sunk - that Christians were suing Christians.

But as only Mac can do, he had to take it one step further. Without giving any names he explained that in our Southern Baptist Convention we had a "famous lawsuit" where "one Christian was suing another Christian and an instutition". Mac was referring to the case of "Dr. Sheri Klouda vs. SWBTS and Paige Patterson". Sheri Klouda was a seminary professor hired by the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary (SWBTS) trustees in 2002 prior to Paige Patterson taking over as SWBTS president in 2003. Paige Patterson eventually told Sheri Klouda she would not be recommended for tenure as she was not suitable to be a professor of theology because of her gender, and scripture forbade her from teaching men. This ultimately resulted in Sheri Klouda bringing a lawsuit against Paige Patterson and SWBTS for gender discrimination. My intent here is not to argue whether the lawsuit did or did not violate precepts in 1 Cor 6, but to point out a lie that Mac perpetuated from the pulpit about Sheri Klouda. But if interested, click here for a good overview of the entire case, written by Wade Burleson. If you do just a little bit of research on this you'll see that Dr. Klouda and her family suffered terribly from this entire ordeal. She is now a professor at Taylor University in Indiana.

But back to Mac's sermon. Mac said Sunday night that the lawyer that tried the case (actually the defendant's lawyer) traveled with him to Greece recently, and Mac says the following (click here to listen to the audio yourself):

"He [the defense attorney] had this person [Sheri Klouda] sit in the witness chair, he gave that person a copy of God's word, and had that person open it to the 6th chapter of 1st Corinthians and he had that person read that [scripture] into the record and he [the defense attorney] asked that person 'now in the light of God's word were you wrong to bring this lawsuit?', and on the record they [Sheri Klouda] admitted they were wrong to bring the lawsuit"

Only one problem. That's a lie. That totally misrepresents Sheri Klouda's testimony in the case. She did NOT admit she was wrong to bring the lawsuit. As anyone who followed the case knows, Sheri Klouda has stated in her testimony in the court and outside the court that the conditions of the situation warranted her taking legal action as she did and that it was not a violation of 1 Cor 6. Its also safe to say that she did not lose the case on the material facts but the court's unwillingness to intervene in church or religious disputes.

Very interesting that Mac chose to lie about this. He didn't have to - the fabrication he told, even if true, wouldn't have shed any light on lawsuits and believers - the lie was completely gratuitous. He could have made his point and used the Klouda case as an example of 1 Cor 6 lawsuits - even saying that he thought Sheri Klouda was wrong in bringing the lawsuit. Many people hold that position. But no, he had to go further. People post here wanting to know my motives - what are Mac's motives in telling a lie about Sheri Klouda and misrepresenting her testimony? Could it be that by telling this story in the fashion he did that it makes Sheri Klouda look less of a Christian (bringing a lawsuit against Patterson then supposedly admitting on the witness stand that she was wrong?) and helps to put Paige Patterson in better light? Would we dare call that slander to use his pulpit to say this about Sheri Klouda?

You say "Mac was just telling us what the lawyer told him." OK, but did Mac pick up the phone and talk to Sheri Klouda as he prepared his sermon to make sure that the lawyer was right and that Sheri had admitted on the witness stand that she was wrong? Why wouldn't he check his facts? For crying out loud, Mac Brunson was Sheri Klouda's pastor when he was at FBC Dallas - wouldn't that alone make him want to get the story straight and make sure that he doesn't malign Sheri Klouda?

There you have it FBC Jax. Yet another example of careless preaching, by an arrogant out-of-control preacher who has a problem telling the truth. And this time Mac's lie maligned one of his own sheep from FBC Dallas to throw a bone to one of his buddies. Sick.

But no one at FBC Jax seems to care. Mac is "God's man". He can do and say as he pleases.

Sorry, but I still say: the King has no clothes on. And it ain't a pretty sight.