Trinity Baptist Church Members: PLEASE DISOBEY YOUR PASTOR

[Photo Removed Due to Copyright Claim]

Fundamentalist Baptist Churches are experts in controlling their members. They get members to not speak of sins (and sometimes even crimes) involving their clergy and members by convincing them that by remaining silent they are obeying scripture. To talk about such matters is "slander" and "gossip" their leaders tell them.

Another case of this is the sickening events that transpired 13 years ago at Trinity Baptist Church in Concorde, New Hampsire - an independent, fundamentalist baptist church. Allegedly a member raped and impregnated a 15-year old, the girl was made to confess her "sin" to the church, and was brainwashed to think it was her fault. And worse - she was whisked away to Colorado to have the baby and the police were unable to interview her and thus her rapist went free for 13 years - until last week.

Here's the point of this post: it's unbelievable....Trinity Baptist Church's pastor, Brian Fuller (pictured above), sent a letter to his congregation last week telling them not to speak to anyone but "our Lord".

As reported by The Washington Post, Fuller's email said:

"Instead of engaging in talk about this incident, I beg you to pray for all those impacted by this crime," Fuller wrote. "I love you tenderly and am confident you will only talk of these matters to our Lord in prayer."

That's code for: don't talk to anybody about this. This will only embarrass our church. Jesus will be happy if you just stay mum. God is the one who will take care of this. If you talk, you'll be hurting Jesus and the gospel.

This is the same hogwash that was said when Gilyard was arrested. Religious zealouts told Tiffany Croft that she should close down her blog, and let God handle things. They said she should mind her own business, she was told that her blog was hurting the church and powerful SBC leaders that for years and years promoted Gilyard were embarrassed by her blog.

Her blog hurting powerful church leaders? Tough poop, as my grandpappy used to say - and he didn't say "poop".

As I said before, God was looking for someone to help stop Gilyard, to expose him. So many failed over two decades, even powerful church leaders, but Tiffany stood her ground and helped bring Gilyard to justice.

Now God is looking for some church members in Concorde, New Hampshire, to come forward and help put the rapist in jail, and hold anybody accountable if they participated in obstruction of justice that allowed this creep to walk around for 13 years. And God forbid that this guy preyed on any other young girls at the church in the last decade.

Brian Fuller ought to be saying the following - since he won't, the Watchdog will:

Members of Trinity Baptist Church in Concorde, New Hampshire: If any of you were around at the time of the events surrounding the rape of this 15-year old at your church - if any of you were present at the "discipline" meeting, if any of you know facts surrounding the events that led to this girl being sent to Colorado and the police not being able to interview her...if any of you know of the allegations against the rapist and might help justice be served, please, please, please, contact our police department, and feel free to contact the local newspaper who is investigating.

Our God is all about TRUTH and JUSTICE...yes, he is about salvation of souls, but just as much as that he is interested in JUSTICE FOR THOSE WHO ABUSE THE WEAK AND POWERLESS. You have a Christian and American duty to speak of these horrible, abusive events that took place at your church. Jesus is looking for some men and women of integrity. Do not listen to your pastor, but instead:

Sing like a canary if you have facts related to this case. Speak to God about it, yes, but just as important speak to the police - because God is using THEM to bring justice.

A Disturbing Story at Christa Brown's Blog

Readers: I urge you to go to Christa Brown's blog and read about a church in New Hampshire that disciplined a 15-year old in front of the church in 1997 for her "sin" of getting raped and pregnant by a 30-year old man in the church.

"Police Say Girl Raped, Then Relocated" - by Christa Brown.

After the discipline session, the victim was moved across the country making it impossible for the police to interview her, and the case sat for 13 years unresolved while the rapist went unpunished, and according to the police the pastor of the rapist and the victim refused to give a statement to the police regarding the matter.

How sick. The pastor did it all for Jesus, didn't he? Just being true to scripture, disciplining those who have "sinned" - and not wanting to "gossip" about the matter to police, I presume.

But thank the Lord Jesus Christ for the Internet and blogs and discussion forums, as this victim, 13 YEARS AFTER HER RAPE....got in touch with a woman who runs an online group for victims of church abuse.

Yes, an online discussion group helped encourage this woman who was the victim of a rapist and an abusive church, to realize she was a victim and that she should come forward to see justice served. Sure blows out of the water the "beauty shop gossip" label applied to online blogs and forums by one prominent pastor back around the days of Darrel Gilyard's arrest.

And the NH man who raped the 15-year old in 1997 was arrested last week, 13 years after the rape.

And now the pastor, who has since moved on to another church, gets the privilege of answering questions of what happened 13 years ago and why this girl was relocated, and why she was humiliated in front of the church for her "sin". While the current pastor of the abusing church tells the parishioners to "only talk to God" about this matter.

Hmmmm...this Trinity Baptist Church in NH relocated the victim across country...the Trinity Baptist Church in my city relocated the abuser across the ocean to Germany...I guess whichever is most convenient, in the name of Jesus and for His sake, of course.

Another fine example of the truth that the mills of the gods sure grind slow, but they grind exceedingly fine.

Amen? Amen!

Do We Christians Really Love Muslims? If So, How Do We Show It?

One of the things I've learned in the past few years as a "recalcitrant" blogger, is that we fundamentalist evangelical Christians can become ignorant to what it means to love people as Christ commanded us. In our religious zeal we can even excuse hatred and bigotry in the name of Jesus Christ. We sometimes can't recognize spiritual abuse, we can't recognize failures and abuses in our pastors, because of our blind loyalty to our church and the elevation of the position of "pastor" to a pope-like status. We see examples of this all around us in modern fundamental, evangelical Christianity.

And it is also true: those who are NOT Christians, can be more Christ-like in loving people, than we Christians - and again we are blind to this, because in our zeal we believe our actions toward groups of people are born out of our devotion to Christ and the bible, and thus we confuse bigotry for love in a most perverse way.

I think a prime example of this has played out before the citizens of Jacksonville, Florida, in the past month, and this should be a wake-up call to evangelicals, and Baptists especially. Let me explain.

On Tuesday May 10, 2010, at the Islamic Center of Northeast Florida, a man planted and detonated a pipe bomb at the exit of the building while 50 or so Muslims were inside. The FBI has said this blast if detonated inside the building would have caused numerous casualties. Security cameras captured the image of the man who did this dastardly deed, but as of yet he has not been caught. A $20,000 reward has been offered for information leading to his arrest.

While in the past year leading up to this bombing it seems Baptists in Jacksonville have expressed more fear of than love toward our fellow citizens who are Muslims - this week it was reported that a local Jewish men's group from the Jacksonville Jewish Center actually demonstrated an act of love toward Muslims by offering their services to repair the damage to the Islamic Center from the blast.

As this News4Jax article points out, the day of the bombing, May 10, 2010 was also the day that Parvez Ahmed, a Muslim and a professor at the University of North Florida first took his place on the Jacksonville Human Rights Commission. As the article points out, this might just be a coincidence, but I definitely think it is NOT a coincidence. I tend to think this was a message being sent to the Muslim community that they are not welcome to participate in local politics.

How does this connect back to Baptists?

Mr. Ahmed's appointment to the Human Rights Commission by the Republican Mayor John Peyton was met with much opposition by members of the Jacksonville City Council who needed to affirm Ahmed's appointment. Four of the members of the City Commission are members of First Baptist Jacksonville, and the two most outspoken against Ahmed's appointment were councilmen Clay Yarborough and Don Redman (the other two FBC Jax council members did vote to affirm Ahmed).

Clay Yarborough sent a series of questions to Ahmed about God, gay marriage, and his ties to Islamic groups in advance of the council meetings discussing his appointment. But when Times Union reporter Mark Woods asked similar questions to Yarborough, he got some troubling responses:

Woods: "Do you believe Muslims should be able to hold public office in Florida? Some of those who have criticized your questions have wondered if that’s what you were getting at ... "

Yarborough: "That wasn’t the intention of the questions."

Woods: "OK, but do you believe Muslims should be able to hold a public office in Florida?"

Yarborough: “I would have to think about that. I would have to think about that. What kind of office? An elected office? Would you consider the human rights commission to be a public office?”

Woods: "Just in general, do you believe Muslims should be able to hold any public office in Florida?"

Yarborough: “I don’t know.”

That is unbelievable. A long-time Baptist, a member of First Baptist Church, an elected official in the United States of America, and he "doesn't know" if a Muslim should be able to hold any public office in Florida.

I know. Most Americans know. Mark Woods knows. The answer is that any American should be able to hold any public office, regardless of their faith, if they are duly elected or appointed.

Next is Don Redman, long-time member also at FBC Jax, and I've already blogged about him trying to get Mr. Ahmed to "pray to your God" in front of the City Council at Mr. Ahmed's confirmation vote. This gained some national attention, and served to embarrass our city as a bunch of redneck hicks. To Redman's credit, he did later apologize to Mr. Ahmed.

And I don't point these examples out to blast Yarborough or Redman. I know Yarborough from my days at FBC Jax, and he is a fine young man. But I think too many of us Baptists have this same mindset as Yarborugh and Redman of fearing Muslims and their religion.

Where do we Baptists lay folk get this? Perhaps we get it from our preachers. As I blogged in 2009, preacher Jim Smyrl at FBC Jax expressed concern that this same Islamic Center that was bombed in May 2010 dared to put up "domes", while Christians did nothing about it. His sermon, almost exactly 1 year prior to the bombing, was in the context of motivating the congregation to convert Muslims, but Smyrl engaged in what I consider fear mongering by saying:

"I'm riding my motorcycle down 9A the other day. I look over, and the dome on Jacksonville's newest Muslim mosque is being put in place. It's amazing,
Christians will rally for everything but what God says is important...But when it comes to engaging the enemy and the greatest weapon he's used in the last 1400 years, listen, to conquer all of Asia, to conquer much of Europe, what he's doing today he's doing it the same way with Islam in America today and the church is silent. And a big dome goes up in our city and we sit back passively and say 'Well, if that's what they want to believe, alright." Well, get ready brother, 'cause your grandchildren are going to come under Muslim law if you keep silent."

Unbelievable. Let's convert these Muslims or we'll all be under Muslim law, says Smyrl, implying of course that Muslims in America do NOT like our freedoms and long to change our system of governance. This is absolutely ridiculous. Muslims here in this country cherish the freedoms we have to worship and live our lives and have come here to precisely because of our freedoms. Sure, there are some extremist Muslims who both might want the country ruled according to their religious doctrines - but hey, I think we can say the same about some fanatical Christians. But to characterize the vast majority of Muslims as wanting to put us under Muslim law is ignorant and offensive, and it helps institutionalize the fear that Baptists lay people like Yarborough and Redman, and many of us, have displayed.

And where do our Baptist preachers get this mindset? Who has been our source of information about Islam in Southern Baptist circles since 9/11? Well, none other than Ergun Michael Caner, who really is not the Islamic expert that we thought. For crying out loud, he characterizes his time as a youth at his Islamic center in Columbus as "Islamic Youth Jihad", being "trained to do that which was done on 11 September". I think many Baptists believe Caner - that all Muslims in America who are devout are just terrorists waiting to happen.

But the point is: if we love Muslims and want them to experience freedom in Christ, how do we show it? Do we express doubts about their constitutional rights as citizens? Should we assume they want to put us under Muslim law and are going to kill us? Do we embarrass them at a public hearing demanding they pray to their god for us? Do we do it by elevating and celebrating an embellishing preacher who uses terms like "sand nigger" and "towel head" to describe Muslims, to the position of seminary president? Should our motivation to convert them be out of fear before they strap a bomb on, as Caner testified about himself ("Jesus died on the cross so I wouldn't have to strap a bomb on to myself")?

Or can we perhaps learn something from our Jewish friends, who extended the hand of friendship to the Muslims at the Islamic Center and said, "Let us help you repair the damage from the pipe bomb." An unexpected act of kindness from a group of another faith.

Funny how we Southern Baptists love to talk about sending missionaries to the "North African Middle East" region around Lottie Moon offering time, to raise money to take bibles and send missionaries to witness to Muslims. We hear from the missionaries that these people are hungry for the gospel, and are very good people who want to know the truth.

But then why do we treat Muslims in our own country who need the gospel just as much as those in the NAME region, with so much fear and contempt?

I think I know the answer. Do you?

Mohammad Khan's Videos Back on YouTube

Mohammad Khan's videos are back on YouTube - for the time being.

You can go to Khan's videos by clicking here:

Mokhan257 Caner Channel

As I have blogged previously, I did not get involved in the Ergun Caner issue until March 2010 when I went back and listened again to the Ergun Caner sermon preached at my former church, FBC Jacksonville, on November 20, 2001. I was there with my family for that sermon, and had not listened to it again until March 2010.

My recollection of that sermon was that he purposely passed himself off to the faithful at FBC Jax as a trained terrorist, a Jihadist, that had converted to Christianity just in the nick of time, before he killed Americans as a terrorist.

And I believed him.

I and others at FBC Jax cheered for him, and I praised Jesus as I had just seen a "miracle" of sorts in front of my own eyes - "proof" that Jesus saved a hardened, trained Jihadist like those that had just slaughtered thousands of Americans. I was proud that my pastor and my church so soon after 9/11 brought in a man who was trained in Europe to kill Americans as the 9/11 terrorists were, yet THIS ONE was saved by Jesus just in the nick of time. This former terrorist didn't kill us thank God, instead he professed that our pastor Jerry Vines was his hero, and we were all so proud to introduce Caner to the world.

Caner and Vines that day, helped give us hope after 9/11 that truly the answer to 9/11 and Jihad, is the gospel. We knew it, but by golly, now we REALLY knew it.

And sure enough, when I went back and listened to the sermon 8 1/2 years later, my recollection was correct.

Then I looked at Caner's own words in he and his brother's book, documenting that they had moved here to the states when Ergun was 3 or 4 - nullifying the sensational, terrorism aspects of Caner's conversion. Then I took a closer look at Mohammad Khan's videos. Then I listened to no less than 20 of Caner's other sermons during the 00's and sure enough, it was the same basic "Jesus saved a trained terrorist just in the nick of time" story - and I was shocked to hear the same racial and ethnic stereotypes uttered by a man who claimed to be "olive skinned" and a "Turkish immigrant" in a "mixed marriage" - implying that it was acceptable for HIM to make fun of Mexicans, blacks, Turks, and Muslims.

And now that we all know a bit more about the embellishments, and we know more about Caner's true upbringing mostly through the blogosphere in the past month or so, we should return to Khan's videos now and examine his evidence more closely. Especially knowing that Liberty and John Ankerberg went to drastic lengths to get them removed from the Internet. Go now and see what they were so afraid of.

So sad, but it seems to be a trend in the SBC: apply pressure to shut down blogs or websites that are critical of Baptist leaders. The professional preachers can't stand criticism, whether it is from a laypeople blogging in Jacksonville or a pastor in Enid, or a Muslim in London. Shut 'em down. Discredit them. Call them names and smear them, apply whatever pressure you can.

Mohammad Khan is a genuine, devout Muslim - and he has gone to the trouble of documenting the Caner deceptions. Khan has credibility when it comes to the issues of his religion, and thus he is worth us Christians listening to on the Caner matter. Unlike so many of Caner's defenders, I don't call Khan names, I don't smear him. Instead, I consider him a friend and I thank Mohammad Khan for helping us Christians see the truth about one of our heroes - and also helping us see the corruption in our own ranks through the defense tactics used against him.

So go see the Khan videos....

...while they last, until the next legal maneuvering takes them down.

Tim Guthrie: A Pastor Defending Caner by Attacking Other Christians

Just about a month ago, Tim Guthrie (left), pastor of Arlington Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee, and president of Ecklund Stewardship Ministries, posted a blog article on his blog SBC Today entitled "The Demise of Christian Blogging". The article has since been taken down, but re-printed below.

This is an example of the "defense" that supporters of Ergun Caner have put forth - it's less of a defense, and more of an outright verbal assault on those who are calling for Caner to give answers about inconsistencies in his testimony. Tim can't give a defense, he can only attack.

I find Guthrie's own vitriol, his angry words and name-calling to be highly disturbing. He is an SBC pastor, a trained minister, someone who supposedly was called by God to be a humble undershepherd, a pastor, yet he has stooped so low as to call fellow Christians terrible names and declare them to be heretics. I wonder if his church family knows this is the kind of stuff their pastor writes on the Internet about people that disagree with him. If I were at Arlington Baptist Church, I sure wouldn't want to express any ideas contrary to Tim's, for fear he give me a dose of his pastorly venom like he has here in this article.

But below is Tim's post in italics, with my emphases in red, and my commentary on his words in bold print.

The Demise of Christian Blogging, by Pastor Tim Guthrie

"This is the week we Christians celebrate the greatest event in all the world - the resurrection of our Lord. This is a week when all of Christianity should be reminded of why we live and how important our mission on this earth is to our Lord. As I sit here with a million words racing through my mind, I find a strong disgust overflowing for so called Christian blogging today. How to balance the thoughts of the resurrection, it's message and meaning, with the thoughts of the demise of Christian blogging is tough."

WD Comment: Translation - "I'm about to blast some fellow Christians out of the water and declare them NOT Christians, but I do it because I love Jesus so much. Amen? Amen!"

"For several weeks a few minions have been trying to go after a Christian brother. In doing so the words of our Lord pertaining to conduct have been tossed aside by the ego driven vitriol of a few with nothing better to do with their time and so called calling than to attack a brother in Christ. Even as I write these words I catch myself being tempted to stoop down to their level. Surely my flesh would love to do so. I am reminded that Jesus spoke verily clearly pertaining to what role we are to play in judging and implementing vengeance. Troubling to me is the depth that some will go with self motivation and grandiose self accolades for their "great" work in accomplishing something of pure nothing. Trying to rid myself of the thoughts of the flesh is no easy task. I know what it is like to live in a glass house. I understand the deep concerns for family safety and the tiring task of being beat upon daily while not being able to swing back in self defense at all. I feel the pain that my brother feels and yet I know that even I in my empathy can do very little to assist."

WD Comments: How interesting. Tim refers to those who were exposing the lies of Ergun Caner, as "minions" (whose minions, maybe Satan's?), and characterizes their blogging as "attacks", and possessing "ego-driven vitriol". Hmmm, "vitriol"...that word sounds familiar to the FBC Jax Watchdog.

People such as James White and the infamous FBC Watchdog are minions that will in all likely hood (sic) never go away. They are the cross that many will have to bear. One day Jesus will make all things revealed and their sorrow and shame will be upon them. The Internet has allowed people to spill their garbage. I wonder what could be accomplished if we all took the time invested in Internet fluff and instead served the Lord with all our hearts, energy and creativity. Much could be accomplished in and for the Kingdom for sure.

WD Comments: More "minion" accusations. I think the "garbage" that has been spilled on the Internet are Caner's lies and misrepresentations of his past after 9/11. And Tim, what you couldn't do as a minister if you would only stop attacking bloggers, and get busy ministering to your flock. I'm sure you have some recalcitrants that need a good tongue lashing from you!

"What actually makes me laugh is when I read that these minions have the audacity to think that emailing and calling leadership of one's employment will actually result in some type of public response. This type of activity is not new. For years it occurred with letters and phone calls. It is has now moved up a few notches with the ease of web site formation and blogging. The ability for anyone to make videos (alter and or pick apart) has added to the picture. God has provided this new technology as a means of spreading the Gospel. Yet today we discover that Satan is alive and well in leading us astray to use that meant for good to showcase our sinful natures and total misuse of time, energy and creativity."

WD Comments: More "minion" accusations. That must be the word Tim learned in his "hooked on phonics" tape of the week. Yes, according to Tim the Internet was provided by God for the spreading of the Gospel, but it was never intended to expose the lies of Caner. The Internet is only for those things that Tim deems worthwhile. The hypocrisy is dripping from every paragraph of this article by Tim. He must deem HIS use of the Internet to attack his brothers and sisters as "minions" acceptable, but for bloggers to expose the lies of Caner is unacceptable. This is why it is dangerous to think of zealots like Guthrie and his ilk ever having political power in this country. They would use their power to silence any critics, and they would do it in the name of Jesus Christ.

"There is absolutely nothing new being brought to light concerning Dr. Ergun Caner. True indeed is the fact that minions like James White and Mohammad will stop at nothing in their desire to bring harm to the ministry that God has called him to. For the life of me how can anyone not see the ridiculous of Mr. White questioning the integrity of Dr. Caner while failing to admit himself that his "doctor degrees" are non accredited. This is not a major issue accept for the fact that the history of the school has been questioned and Mr. White obviously fails to understand that Dr. Caner had to undergo a major screening to fill the position he now has. How ridiculous is it that a Muslim man who has been out to destroy Dr. Caner is now being linked to and advises Christians while his error of faith goes without question and his eternal life is destined for Hell. I guess when Mr. White says he believes in limited atonement, Mohammad is just out of the equation. I guess Mr. White and a few others fail to realize that Christians are to be separate from the evil ones. Maybe just maybe, this is blind passion of a man who would much rather suck blood from a Christian brother to promote is own false doctrine than to be busy about leading people to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ."

WD Comments: Tim is incorrect. Shortly before he wrote this, I put on the Internet excerpts from Caner's November 2001 sermon at FBC Jax - these were entirely new, they had nothing to do with Mohammad Khan, and they showed that Caner had started his deceptions right after 9/11.

Tim is a Pharisee - he accuses Dr. White of being "linked to" a Muslim. This is exactly the kind of crap the Pharisees pulled on Jesus. They accused him of hanging around the wrong people, guilt by association. Jesus refused to play by the rules established by the religous leaders. No, Jesus never said to "separate from the evil ones"...the "evil ones" in Jesus day that he warned us about were the religious leaders who abused their power over people like Guthrie is trying to do here in this blog post.

Notice Tim falsely accuses Dr. White of "sucking the blood" out of Caner, and he wrongly accuses Dr. White of "false doctrine". Yes, White is a Calvinist, but he is a brother in Christ. Can't Tim see what a terrible witness he is as a pastor to be writing like this?

"I know that the counter attacks to this post will call me hypocritical and more. That is the way it works these days. One group is free to attack while the other group is presumed guilty and must repent. How sad is the logic in that. How sad is the person who thinks that by doing some internet research that is old news is now out of nowhere NEW? How sad is it that people who are lost will read once again of Christians attacking other Christians? I wonder how Mr. White and the other minions wake up each day knowing that they are so spiritual and yet have to live in the midst of us not spirituals? It sure must be tough for them. "

"Christian blogging should be more than this. Our conduct as Christians should be better than this. It was this garbage that Jesus died for! Maybe we have forgotten. Maybe we need to be reminded. Maybe some just don't care! "

WD Comments: Yes, Jesus died for the garbage being spewn from Tim Guthrie.

"I will close by saying this to Dr. Ergun Caner. The road may be filled with pot holes and cracks. Do not worry. Do not let your flesh and the pain it feels become your focus. The minions will have their day! You have a ministry that is fruitful and God ordained. Stick to it and keep doing what you have been called to do. The demise of Christian blogging is not your worry. The lost who need to hear of Jesus and His payment for their sins are your priority. Your family will be fine and your ministry will flourish. You sir are in great company with men like Rogers, Vines, Falwell and more. Stay the course as these men did and let God have His way with the minions. "

WD Comments: Two more "minions", bringing the total to six. Yes, let's tell Ergun that he is in the same league as Vines and Rogers and Falwell. Never mind the decade of deception, Tim. Just keep gushing over how wonderful Caner is...and maybe he'll add your church to his speaking schedule where you can gush even more.

"And Ergun, one more thing - I think it was a great gesture on your part to honor your father by using his name in yours. Funny how people just don't stop and think about what is right in front of their own eyes. "

WD Comments: Why did he wait until after 9/11 to change his middle name to "Mehmet" to honor his father? Why not immediately after his father died or earlier.

And Tim, finally: who is the real "minion" here? It is you, you are the Ergun Caner minion.