Caner/Liberty Aftermath: What They're Saying

It looks like the first news/blog cycle on the Liberty University/Ergun Caner scandal has run its course.

All reporters and bloggers, with the exception of the SBC Today Bunch and Tim Guthrie, are viewing the Liberty action as punishment against Caner for being untruthful. Some agree with the LU decision, many think it didn't go far enough.

But no where, anywhere on the Internet will you find a claim of "exoneration" except at the SBC Today Bunch website and Tim Guthrie's blog. "Delusional" is how Chantry characterizes Guthrie's position. Not surprising, the Baptist Press has been silent so far (Correction: Baptist Press did have an article on Monday 6/28 here), as has Peter Lumpkins. In fact we're all eagerly awaiting Peter's next "vlog" - donning his cap and sleeveless shirt - to tell us of Caner's victory, just as much as we are anticipating the fake Ergun Caner's next episode at YouTube - both with be very entertaining I'm sure.

Tim Guthrie's blog posts are embarrassingly painful to read as he first declares total exoneration for Caner, then posts a total of four blog posts in three days, with the last one yesterday backtracking a bit in a confusing post in which he is so flustered he wasn't able to number his points correctly (1, 2, 4, 5).

When sampling the various news accounts and blog writings of the Caner scandal, I think we see very pointedly the value of Christian blogging. Sadly Liberty was only interested in the truthfulness of their seminary president if the secular media was interested. The secular media acknowledges that it was the Christian bloggers who kept the pressure on this story, posting video and audio evidence of Caner's deception which finally resulted in the media paying attention and then LU was suddenly concerned. Do real universities behave in that manner concerning their presidents - they're concerned only when the media is concerned?

Gone are the days when lay people get spoon fed from their pastors or from "Baptist Press" what is going on in their convention. Information and insightful and controversial analysis abounds, and this is a good thing as we have seen here.

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On a side note: one quote that caught my attention was in the Associated Press article that I don't think had been confirmed before: AP reported: "...[Caner] asked friendly organizations to remove damning clips from their websites." We all suspected that he did, but the AP confirmed it.

I know the Ohio Free Will Baptists eventually did remove from their website the four very damning sermons from a 2007 men's retreat where Caner was in absolute rare form, prior to the completion of the LU investigation, but they told me they were not asked by Caner or Liberty to do it. I archived copies of the four sermons before their removal, and provided copies to one of the LU committee members during the investigation. After I blogged about those Caner sermons in April, an Ohio Free Will Baptist staff member contacted me and demanded I remove the audio excerpts I posted, and that I remove their logo from my blog post. I did remove their logo, but kept the audio excerpt clip which is still here, claiming it was allowable under the Fair Use doctrine.

A compilation of news and blogger accounts in the past few days that are worth reading:

Associated Baptist Press: Liberty Demotes Caner

Associated Press: Muslim-Turned Preacher Out as Dean

BeliefNet: Caner Sacked as Dean

Examiner: Liberty Removes Caner as Dean

Christianity Today: Liberty Cuts Caner as Dean

News and Advance: LU Won't Renew Caner Contract

NEW: Christian Post: LU Demotes Caner

[Lots of "demotes", "cuts", "sacked", but I couldn't find any news reports stating Caner is "exonerated", but I'm still looking!]

Some of the best blogs giving analysis of what the Caner decision means to evangelicalism:

Tom Chantry: Declaration from Liberty (most insightful and balanced, a must read)

Wade Burleson: Caner and the Liberty Honor Code (pointing out LU hypocrisy in Caner decision)

Wade Burleson: Celebrity = Integrity in SBC

Wade Burleson: SBC Today = "Bagdad Bob" (painfully hilarious)

James White: The Full Liberty Statement (White not impressed with LU statement)

Gene Clyatt: Lynchburg, We Have a Problem (Most hard-hitting, critical analysis of LU's actions)

R.A. McGough: A Christian University? Liberty is Neither (Just as hard-hitting as Clyatt)

Ergun Caner Removed as Head of Liberty University Seminary

Ray Reed of the Lynchburg "News & Advance" has just reported the following:

"Liberty University announced today that Ergun Caner will no longer be dean of the university’s Baptist Theological Seminary.

After an investigation conducted by four members of Liberty’s Board of Trustees, the university said it found that Caner has made “factual statements that are self-contradictory” concerning “dates, names and places of residence.“ The statements included his description of being raised as a Muslim in Turkey, when documents indicate he moved to the United States at the age of 4.

His contract as dean of the seminary expires on June 30 and will not be renewed, according to a statement from LU. Caner will continue to serve on the seminary’s faculty, as a professor."

This is sad news, but it is about what I expected, and the best that could have been hoped for by Caner in this circumstance. Although Reed doesn't report on this, my hunch is that Caner may have expressed remorse and actually repented over his decade of deceit, and thus they justified keeping him on as a professor, but determined that his exaggerations and other statements made during his speaking tours prevented him from being able to remain as president of the seminary.

This is exactly what I had predicted would happen when I wrote the following on my blog May 18th, when I gave a Christian defense of Ergun Caner. It was then that I said:

"I don't see how at this point he can stay as president of the Liberty seminary even if he truly repents, if for no other reason than for the academic credibility of the university. But if he truly repents for the decade of deceit as the "Preaching-Circuit Ergun" and seeks forgiveness, my hope is that he will stay as a professor at Liberty, and even as a preacher at the Campus Church, and continue his ministry to students. So that is my hope for Ergun.

I will pray for him, that he will do the right thing."

Perhaps he did do the right thing, and repented, and this allowed him to stay on staff at Liberty University.

All in all I am pleased that Liberty has taken this action. It will help to salvage their reputation, and it shows the world that a high-profile preacher who speaks lies from the pulpit will eventually be held accountable by his peers. As one that was present at FBC Jacksonville in November 2001 when Caner first came on the scene claiming to be a Jihadist trained in 9/11 style terrorism, I am pleased that my blog nine years later in 2010 contributed to the gathering of the evidence needed to confront Caner with his deception.

Sadly, the University will never be able to erase the disgrace that it took Internet bloggers like myself and a host of others, including Mohammad Khan, to finally get action out of Liberty University on this important issue.

Caner Not Only Ex-Muslim With Dubious Past: An "Industry" To Make Money on Christians?

There is an interesting article by Omar Sacirbey at the website BeliefNet, entitled "Critics Say Caner Isn't Only Ex-Muslim with Dubious Past".

Perhaps there are other supposed self-proclaimed "ex-terrorist Mulsims" who have written books about Islam and been on the speaking cirucuit, seeking a market for their testimony and books amongst the vast sea of gullible Christians.

Sacirbey points out that Ergun Caner himself claims to have a terrorist past - he provides a quote from Caner's November 2001 sermon at FBC Jax where Caner claimed to have been in "Islamic Youth Jihad", and "trained to do that which was done on 11 September." As I have maintained since releasing the Caner FBC Jax 2001 sermon on this blog earlier this year, these quotes are the most damning for Caner - showing him, in my opinion, to be an opportunist going so far as to falsely portray himself as an ex-terrorist right after 9/11 as his mentor Jerry Vines sat right behind him.

But he might not be the only one, as Sacirbey points out. The other supposed ex-terrorists are:

- Walid Shoebat - author of "Why We Want to Kill You", claims he was recruited by the PLO as a teenager. According to Sacirbey, Shoebat describes a bomb-throwing incident he was involved in, but turns out there is no proof of it according to Sacirbey's article. Here is a link to Shoebat's website.

- Kamal Saleem - claims to have carried out terrorist attacks in Israel, and to have moved to America to wage Jihad against America (sound familiar?). Here is a link to his website with his story.

Says Sacirbey in his article:

"Skeptics point out that Shoebat and Saleem claim to have carried out their terrorist activities in the 1960s and 1970s, long before modern Islamic radicalism emerged in the 1980s. They also question why, if their terror claims are true, they've been able to retain their U.S. citizenship."

Exactly. If Ergun Caner was "trained to do that which was done on 11 September" did the U.S. government fully investigate his supposed terrorist background after he made these remarks in November 2001 at FBC Jax? Was he really trained in terrorism? Is he an expert in Jihad? If not, why was he invited to speak to the U.S. troops on such a topic? Are Shoebat and Saleem really ex-terrorists? If Shoebat and Saleem and Caner are trained ex-terrorists, why are they U.S. citizens? Can any ex-terrorist "accept Jesus" and then they are deemed non-threats?

Read this quote from Sacirbey's article:

Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said Caner, Shoebat, Saleem and others like them belong to an "industry" that is often perpetuated by fundamentalist Christians. "The people that are doing this do it to make money, or get converts, or to get some personal benefit," Hooper said.

And then this quote:

"Despite the evidence against them, Hooper believes these people will continue to be welcomed by some institutions because they preach what some audiences want to hear. 'As long as you attack Islam and demonize Muslims, you're going to get a platform,' he said. 'It doesn't matter if your facts and background are wrong.' "

Oh how true. While I don't agree with much of what Ibrahim Hooper has ever said, he certainly knows us Christians well. With all that has been revealed on Caner, it is amazing his speeches are still in high demand in the Southern Baptist churches and in bible conferences attended by pastors. How sad.

Times Union Headline: "Oops! State Attorney's Office inadvertently destroys subpoenas related to First Baptist blogger"

I don't normally comment here on my blog about the ongoing litigation and discovery process in the First Amendment lawsuit against the City of Jacksonville, but in today's Florida Time's Union there is an article about a tiny portion of what has been determined through the discovery process that I thought I'd share with my readers, especially those who might not read the Times Union.

As a part of the discovery process in this lawsuit, my lawyer has deposed State Attorney Angela Corey, scheduled for next week, and apparently a motion was filed on her behalf recently in an attempt to keep her from having to give her testimony. The information about the "inadvertant destruction" of documents in this case was revealed when Stephen Seigel was deposed in May, and apparently this information was revealed in my lawyer's response to Corey's motion. Thus, it's in the paper this morning.

Here's the article:

Headline and link: "OOPS!! State Attorney's Office inadvertently destroys subpoenas related to First Baptist blogger."

The article from the newspaper:

"The State Attorney's Office disclosed it inadvertently destroyed investigative subpoena requests and copies of subpoenas related to a formerly anonymous blogger who was critical of leadership at Jacksonville's First Baptist Church.

According to a federal court motion filed on behalf of State Attorney Angela Corey, the files were inadvertently destroyed during an office relocation, along with similar documents in other cases from October to December 2008.

The motion, seeking to keep Corey from being deposed, was filed in a lawsuit filed by Tom Rich, who sued authorities and the church after an investigation revealed his identity. A Jacksonville Sheriff's Office detective who attends First Baptist used subpoenas signed by an assistant state attorney to discern Rich's identity in 2008.

The documents were destroyed when Corey, who took office in 2009, moved the special prosecution division from the Eddie Farah Building on Adams Street into the State Attorney's Office on Bay Street as a cost-saving measure.

Corey was unavailable for comment this afternoon, and Chief Assistant State Attorney Dan McCarthy said he was unaware of the inadvertent destruction. He said he hasn't been directly involved in the Rich litigation.

"There's been no issue that I'm aware of that's arisen out of inadequate files being transferred over from special prosecution," McCarthy said.

Rich's attorney, Mike Roberts, noted in a response filed this afternoon that Assistant State Attorney Stephen Siegel told jacksonville.com after Rich's lawsuit was filed last year that the supoena requests had been destroyed after 90 days according to office policy. Siegel was the prosecutor who signed the supoena requests. Roberts said the detective's files also have been destroyed.

"These are central documents that just don't exist anymore," Roberts said. He said he is contemplating a motion for sanctions for intentional destruction of evidence.

Robert said he was told the filed were being moved and were inadvertently placed in a group of documents that were to be destroyed. "

I have sat in on every deposition given thus far in the case over the past 2 months (over 20), and there are more scheduled. The discovery process is still on-going, and probably will continue through July.

I am assuming the judge in this case will very soon issue a ruling on the motion to keep Corey from testifying, as Corey's deposition is scheduled for next week. I'll update with any additional news that is put in the newspaper.

Mac Brunson Sermon: Setting the Record Straight on Youth at FBC Jax

At the 2010 SBC Annual Meeting in Orlando, the FBC Jax combined youth choirs and orchestra did a magnificent job at the convention. They sung and played very well - the music was top notch, not overly contemporary like some of the music at the convention. Jonathan Welch and the new guy did great in leading the youth.

After they sang and played, their pastor Mac Brunson made the following statement about the youth at the beginning of his sermon, complimenting them on their ability to share their faith:

"That high school group is going to be in Argentina - about 150 of 'em - middle school is going to be in the inner-city of Atlanta working with a church plant we have going there - I just love them - and I want to tell you something - that group of young people there, they know how to witness. Now listen, they can tell you about Jesus Christ, and I'll tell you how they do that.

Because of the leadership of Homer Lindsay and Jerry Vines - not because of Mac Brunson - but pastors before me, the lines have fallen to me in pleasant places. And because those pastors saw to it, we have a generation of young people that will knock on doors and tell people about Jesus."

Well, I understand the desire to drop names like Jerry Vines and Homer Lindsay at the convention, but really, I think the credit for the training of those young people doesn't go to Vines or Lindsay.

No way. It to goes to an entirely different set of folks, folks that Mac might have given credit to if he had more time to speak - so I'll take the opportunity here.

If anyone is going to be commended for helping to produce the quality of youth at FBC Jax, it goes to the youth ministers at FBC Jax: starting with Bob Barton and Calvin Carr whose service started way back in the 80s. These two guys poured their lives into the youth at FBC Jax for several decades, and established a youth ministry of excellence - emphasizing personal evangelism, teaching the kids how to share their testimony and the gospel. The successors of Barton and Carr - Dan Elkins and Chris Eppling seem to have done a solid job as well carring on their work.

It also goes to the hundreds of dedicated lay leaders and workers who work tirelessly with the youth. They teach Sunday School, go on camps, work in the youth music ministry Sunday and Wednesday nights - not getting a paycheck or wanting a paycheck and taking vacation time to serve - but doing it out of love for the kids and the Lord.

I'll never forget the two people at FBC Jax who I admire the most and served under for 7 years: Walt and Maggie Bowden, who have been 6th grade Sunday School directors for close to four decades. While the mega church pastors get the big pay checks and all the accolades and standing ovations, people like the Bowdens and others at FBC Jax will be the ones getting the applause of heaven when they arrive for their steadfast service and sacrifice all these years. Sure, no wealthy FBCJ donors are lining up to give them a land gift or free beach condo rent, and maybe they didn't get to sail down the Danube or go on any Holy Land trips...but they took different trips: their trips to Lake Yale and Hilliard ministering to youth the past 40 years surpass anything that a FBC Jax mega church pastor has done or will do for the kingdom.

Credit also goes to the hard-working parents who saw to it to get their kids in a top-notch ministry. Anyone who knows what it is to attend a downtown mega church, knows it is a committment to haul everyone down there 2 or 3 times a week, sometimes more, for all the special ministries the kids are involved in.

So I just wanted to set the record straight...and I think Jerry Vines would agree, and Homer would too if here were still here...don't pat them on the back for what the youth have accomplished or will accomplish for the Lord in Argentina...thank the unsung heros, the past and current youth ministers and dedicated lay workers and parents who have toiled for years in the youth ministry at FBC Jax.

Mega church pastors might not notice, but Jesus sure does.