"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Friday, October 2, 2009

FBC Jax Media Presents..."Trouble Clef"

video

Above is a fine ministry product put forth by the Media Pastor and media ministry at FBC Jax, a spoof about Jim Whitmire and the FBC Jax Choir. This is apparently the kind of thing the media department is working on at FBC Jax these days. On one hand, entertaining, but I guess I don't see the purpose.

But on the other hand, maybe this presents another marketing opportunity for increasing FBC Jax revenue. You have to admit this is a very well-done video product...couldn't the FBC Jax Media Pastor market these services to other churches? 99.9% of the churches don't have Media Pastors and production equipment like FBC Jax does, so why not make these services available to other churches - produce spoofs for them, for a market-based fee, of course? Send our crews out for a fee to produce videos of other pastor's Holy Land trips like they do for Brunson...produce spoofs of other church's trespass warning deliveries, deacon's resolutions, etc. The options are endless.

By the way, is the video crew going on the trip down the Danube next spring to video tape Brunson preaching on the deck of the "River Beatrice" during the "Danube River Trip with Mac and Debbie Brunson", as they did on the last "Holy Land Trip with the Brunson Family and Charlies Ryrie"? Ain't life grand?

70 comments:

Anonymous said...

wondering if Debbie brings her personal trainer with her on these vacations ERRRR missions.....

Thy Peace said...

I found the video to be funny. Though the questions being asked by Watchdog are relevant for any church.

I do not think they need to do any spoofs for Pastor Mac's sermons. The sermons sometimes provides the amusement by themselves.

I distinctly remember one Wednesday evening, when Mac misspoke (maybe intentionally) about the characters of Narnia, only to be corrected multiple times by the children (choir) behind him.

That was funny.

Bunked said...

So this is how the Media budget is being spent at FBC JAX.

Think of how many hours (personnel and volunteer) that it took to make this video. It's so sad. How is God glorified in this?

Think of the people at the church who give sacrificially. They are doing without while a portion of the money they gave goes to stuff like this.

Anonymous said...

The question how is God Glorified through this blog?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

The question is, how is God glorified by your comment?

Anonymous said...

Watch puppy, I think that your blog is a joke and that you are a very insecure man. I think that your idea of accountability is wrong and that you are confused or misunderstood about many things. I think that your actions are reckless and that you do more to damage than you do to repair. I think that many of your pound puppies have the same flaws that you do. I think that the only people that take you seriously are those that are equally as hatefull and immature.

Anonymous said...

Ok anon October 2, 2009 12:05 PM, how is God glorified by Mac beating the sheep up for money, which he then takes for himself or funnels to the media dept to extravagantly waste in the most asinine way?

Of course, like all the other Mac supporters, you have NOOOOOO answer. Guess you'll just crack-back with another nonsense swipe at the WD. Face it MAC FAN - YOU GOT NOTHIN'!!!!

Anonymous said...

The question is, how is God glorified by your comment?

The same way your ____ blog does.
This blog reminds me of 1st grade.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Your mindless criticisms that don't address the issue of the blog post are what remind me of first grade. "I don't like what you say, so I'll call you names, like "watch puppy" and I'll call you hatefull (get a spell checker) and immature." THAT my friend, reminds me of first grade.

(Robert Peeples and the guy who threatened me by referring to the murdered abortionist are the only ones that call me "watch puppy" - which are you? Or are you both?)

Anonymous said...

" I think that many of your pound puppies have the same flaws that you do. I think that the only people that take you seriously are those that are equally as hatefull and immature.

October 2, 2009 4:36 PM
_________________________________-
And I Think:
"Pound Puppies" love being rescued from the pound center as if someone doesn't come to their aide after 90 days they are put on death row! :>)

Anon 12:05 I AM ONE OF THOSE:
Think of the people at the church who give sacrificially,..NO MORE!

Anonymous said...

hey anon 4:36
It's easy to tell when one of you pop in hear to sling mud. If you were following any of the blog you would have recently read this:

Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Just a few Sunday nights ago Brunson yelled from the pulpit, I'm not accountable to anyone.

It is obvious by many of the comments on here that many at FBC Jax believe what he said is true. They also appear to believe that if you are in 'any' serving position in the church that is applies to them as well.

Folks, it is in your Bible! We are all accountable to one another.

I have yet to see anyone be able to defend this:
Brunson wrote in his Pastors Guidebook NOT to accept expensive gifts, live in executive homes, or drive luxury cars.

Why is it ok for him to do this while he is instructing other pastors NOT to do it?

In the same book he says that if a pastor has an unhappy church member to meet with them PERSONALLY. Brunson turned down 2 opportunities to do just that.

Why is it ok for him to do this while he is instructing other pastors NOT to do it?

Why is it ok for him to say loudly that he is accountable to no one when scripture clearly states we all are?

Be a sport anon 4:36 tell us why this behavior by the pastor is ok.

Anonymous said...

Hello, Watchdog...

This is my first time on your blog. There are several things that I find interesting. To address the "How is God glorified in this" question... As a choir member of a church myself, I find the video hilarious and full of exhortation. How, you ask. Well, worship leaders work hard enough as it is...give them a lil enjoyment, will ya? What's the difference between this video and doing a skit for the amusement of volunteers and workers? Us choir members can laugh and learn at the same time. I learned how very distracting it is for the audience if I bring an animal print jumbo purse up on stage. This is how it glorifies God...it teaches appreciation for a choir director that cares, understanding of an audience that needs to focus on worship, and a joyful spirit. I don't remember Christ spending his time complaining about others...do you?

Thy Peace said...

I personally would like to thank Fbc Jax Media Department for video taping the "video comment" of Mac to me and uploading it through Number 9 network, while I was watching your live service.

You did a lousy job technically and after several failed attempts.

Way to go guys. You are trend setters here in the blog world.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Hi Choir member - I got a chuckle out of the video, and I am not being critical of the choir or Whitmire. I have always loved the choir and orchestra, and still do. I'm not sure the video "glorifies God", or that it has to necessarily.

Your other point about Jesus...did he "criticize"? Hmmmm....his harshest words and actions were not toward the common folk, or "complainers" in the temple, or for those who weren't giving the full tithe, or for those who asked questions of the Pharisees. No, Jesus' harshest and dare I say "vitriolic" words were for the religious leaders of his day, especially those who were leaders in the temple who took large sums of money from God's people for themselves, and turned the house of God into a market place where profits were made and skimmed. He didn't just criticize these scoundrels, he threw the bums out...and I don't think he scheduled a meeting with them to discuss things before hand. But that has nothing to do with a Whitmire video.

Anonymous said...

I assume your response means that you only have "aught" with some parts of the body of Christ. Even still, I would be cautious when criticizing His bride. As of yet, I haven't seen a fruitful or non-destructive purpose for this blog. But I'm sure I'm not the first to exhort you.

Anonymous said...

I assume your response means that you only have "aught" with some parts of the body of Christ. Even still, I would be cautious when criticizing His bride. As of yet, I haven't seen a fruitful or non-destructive purpose for this blog. But I'm sure I'm not the first to exhort you.

Anonymous said...

I assume your response means that you only have "aught" with some parts of the body of Christ. Even still, I would be cautious when criticizing His bride. As of yet, I haven't seen a fruitful or non-destructive purpose for this blog. But I'm sure I'm not the first to exhort you.

October 2, 2009 11:07 PM

His Bride? Where? You are fooling yourself if you think FBCJax represents His Bride. But then, I am quickly learning that most at FBCJax know nothing about scripture except what they hear from the pulpit.

Anonymous said...

No problem. This video is just part of Whitmire earning his 240,000 a year

Anonymous said...

This one for Mac:

Hushlittle babydon't cry like thatGod's gonna buy you a cadillac.He's chosen you do do his willyou can spread the word in your coupe de ville.So jump in the river and learn to swimGod's gonna wash away all yovr sins.And if you still can't see the lightGod's gonna buy you a satellite.Look to the heavens and see it shineheals the sick and leads the blindTune it in and hear it sayit's counting down to judgement day.So jump in the river and learn to swimGod's gonna wash away all your sins. . .Hey satellite manyour time has comeyour word received by everyone.And should you fallwellthat's okayyou love the ones that you betray.So jump in the river and learn to swimGod's gonna wash away all your sins.And when at last you see the lightGod's gonna by you a satellite.So iumF in the river and learn to swimGod's gonna wash away all your sins. . .And when at last you see the lightGod's gonna buy you a satel[ite.God's gonna buy you a satellite!Look to the heavens and see it shine.

The song is by the eighties band The Hooters

Johnny D. said...

Anonymous said...
Watch puppy, I think that your blog is a joke and that you are a very insecure man. I think that your idea of accountability is wrong and that you are confused or misunderstood about many things. I think that your actions are reckless and that you do more to damage than you do to repair. I think that many of your pound puppies have the same flaws that you do. I think that the only people that take you seriously are those that are equally as hatefull and immature.

October 2, 2009 4:36 PM

I just want to say that I do have flaws. At times, I can be a little immature. I don't think I'm hateful, though. I can be bitter about things long past the time to move on, but I'm not a hater, and I'm working on the bitterness part.

I find it a bit perplexing (but not surprising) that this anon can come by and be so hypocritical. To say such things about Tom, and about those that read and post here, comes across to me as hateful - genuinely so.

Anon, you need to look deep into your life and thought process. Aren't you a Christian? Doesn't that mean something? Honestly, assuming you've prayed the magic words and identify as a Christian, do you really think your Lord would carry on the way you have? Was that Jesus' usual style in Scripture? Did he go after those that had been wounded and rejected by the religious leaders of his day, or did Jesus go after the religious leaders themselves?

Of all the things Jesus said to Peter - a rejecter if there ever was one - what were Jesus' final words to Peter? Not to imply that Tom has done anything wrong in this FBCJ situation, but if Brunson is to pastor his flock in the model of Jesus, where is a similar "Peter" approach? Did Jesus call Peter a "Sociopath?" And if Brunson is not to pastor his flock in the model of Jesus, what model is he to use? Yours? Your example of expressing the light and love you have supposedly been given, is to come to a blog you claim is full of lies and hate - yet you read frequently - and scribe hypocritical thoughts and obvious hate onto electronic paper. All directed at fellow travelers upon this lonesome rock - travelers you don't even really know - most of them are Christians. How mature of you.

Perhaps, Anon, you should find a quiet place and ask yourself, deep within your heart where belief and unbelief clash, why the unbeliever typing these words understands the above, and you do not.

Anonymous said...

"Be a sport anon 4:36 tell us why this behavior by the pastor is ok.

October 2, 2009 9:48 PM"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MY APOLOGIES:
Only meant that I am one of Watchdog's "pound puppies" and happy that he's bringing attention to "facts" members all see going on at FBCJ, who talk behind their backs and want others to be their voice. (cowards).

I'm totally am in agreement with you - I as well would like to know the same answers asked by the majority of the WD bloggers.

"Why is it ok for him to do this while he is instructing other pastors NOT to do it?"

"Why is it ok for him to say loudly that he is accountable to no one when scripture clearly states we all are?"

It is NOT OKAY - the man yells, pounds, scolds, sweats and belittles the flock, saying he doesn't care what (we) the members think - based on that I simply don't like the man period (and I'm not alone) and no more monies on my part will go to support the "fat cats" who also have other 501 ministries. I am done with FBCJ - do I blame the preacher, no - it all falls on the search committee, the deacons and the Officers feet who are bowing at his feet. So be it!

Watchdog Pound Puppy (love my master) :>)

Anonymous said...

Man, it's funny. Thank God that they have a sense of humor!

Anonymous said...

Johnny D,

I think you mean hypercritical. Hypo means not enough. Just saying.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
No problem. This video is just part of Whitmire earning his 240,000 a year

October 3, 2009 12:24 AM

You can't be serious, . . . if so then it's no wonder he goes around smiling all the time. I would be too!

Wow, that much salary for a part time job, probably draws Social Security, plus he has a 501. Now that's what I call making a decent living (if true).

Johnny D. said...

No, I meant hypocritical. To me, to come here and rail on Tom and the other posters here using such language from one I'm guessing is a Christian, seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Online dictionary - Definition: hypocritical ... professing feelings or virtues one does not have.

Anonymous said...

11:31,


Seriously serious

Anonymous said...

$240,000!!!! Really???? Is that accurate? $240,000...for what?

Anonymous said...

"Wow, that much salary for a part time job, probably draws Social Security, plus he has a 501. Now that's what I call making a decent living (if true)."

He works full time. He just turned 70, and when you turn 70 1/2 you have to start making mandatory 401(k) and IRA disbursments.

I wonder what he does with all of his money?

Anonymous said...

20K/month? Have pastored for 15 years and have not made 20K/yr. Guess leading singing is a big thing now.

LCB

Anonymous said...

You don't know his salary, none of us will ever know his salary, so lay off JW.

We can say, however:

- his wife is not on staff

- he doesn't yell at the peeps each week

- he doesn't use scripture to beat people up and demand dough

- he doesn't tell the peeps how hard his life is, and how you should try leading the choir for a week to see how YOUd like it

- he is tried and tested and true, the many years he served along side of Rogers.

- and he is a gentleman in the pulpit and out of the pulpit

So maybe give the man a pass and stay off his back on this blog.

Anonymous said...

So maybe give the man a pass and stay off his back on this blog.

October 3, 2009 6:09 PM

He is a good yes man. I suppose many would be for that kind of dough.

Anonymous said...

So maybe give the man a pass and stay off his back on this blog.

October 3, 2009 6:09 PM

Okay, we can give JW a pass on the the "personal character' test but sorry, that kind of salary for leading a choir just can't be justified.

Anonymous said...

And Whitmire voted to oust the self proclaimed "Watchdog."

Anonymous said...

I posted a comment today around 1:00 but it never showed up. I mentioned that I was in the FBC choir.

Anonymous said...

"Okay, we can give JW a pass on the the "personal character' test but sorry, that kind of salary for leading a choir just can't be justified."

It's more to his job than leading the choir. He has to plan the music, sometimes rewrite parts, attend meetings, etc.

Also, the Rev. Edson Dickinson has a lot to do as well. He has to re-orchestrate most of the music we do to make it better for our orchestra. Dickinson probably has more musical talent than Whitmire.

Yes, $240K is too much (if true), but it's a lot of work when you consider we have 3 choirs, 3 orchestras, children's music, ensambles, special productions like the Passion Play. Keep in mind that there is a lot of work that goes in to the music program.

Anonymous said...

Yes, $240K is too much (if true), but it's a lot of work when you consider we have 3 choirs, 3 orchestras, children's music, ensambles, special productions like the Passion Play. Keep in mind that there is a lot of work that goes in to the music program.

October 3, 2009 9:19 PM

Give me a break . . .a lot of medical docs don't even "clear" this much cash as well as lawyers . . .a lot of employee's working 12 hours a day in Fortune 500 companies don't bring this home. FBCJ is Soooo top heavy!

SoundMan said...

Tom, get counselling!

You are really not doing Christ Jesus any favors. Instead, your work (obsession) is giving Satan a laugh in the face of Jesus.

You've got plenty of support from the Christian hating atheists (who can easily pretend to be "anonymous" Christians) & other wacked out (questionable) Christians, but really, you are not doing God any favors with this "blog" at all.

Yes, I meant to say "other"! You are really being used by Satan & it's making you certifiably insane.

Get a grip, get some counselling & move on! Hasn't this blog taken over your life enough already?

This blog is insane! Maybe you are too? Seriously! It certainly looks like it.

How about letting someone come into your life for a few weeks to observe ALL of your actions! There is probably plenty of sins many people would love to comment on!

Hypocrite?

Former FBC Finance Member said...

The 240k is true, but you forgot to mention his 500k signing bonus to lure him out of retirement and his annual 100k performance bonus! Oh, and don't forget we pay his plane tickets back and forth to his home in Memphis for He' and his wife!

Anonymous said...

Personal enrichment, off of a church by anyone is NOT ONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS!!!! why do these guys think it is OK to REQUIRE this amount of money. Just because a group of trustees gives it to them does not make it morally right to take it. The love of money is indeed the root of all evil. Do these people not realize that they will have to explain to God one day, why they took this amount of money as "salary". As someone said:
I would not want to be a preacher in the Church age of Laodicea. God has nothing good to say about this church.

Incidentally, 10% of the nation is unemployed and these preachers, preachers family members, and choir directors etc., are taking this amount of money as salary. Shame! Shame! I am sure some of the members who have "given" money, may be unemployed, or in bad financial position. How do they feel now, the church is handing out this money,and for what.

Anonymous said...

Has it occured to anyone, that the choir is a volunteer group? Why does someone make $240K off of a group of volunteers who are not paid? Not only that many pay in the form of tithes and offerings to employ these high paid heirechy. If it weren't for the volunteer (unpaid) members to the entire church, these overpaid persons would not have a church at all!!! These unpaid volunteers donate their time and money to the service of the Lord and His church. While the leaders draw down the big bucks. Not right! I am afraid that this pinciple is being violated. I know it's called "full time ministry", they have no other job. But the unpaid volunteers must serve in addition to, (in many cases) hold down a job as well. Making it harder to serve and work.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon 11:02 - I recommend you get some anger management. Do you think you are doing Christ Jesus a favor by coming on here and being ugly towards me? Where did you learn that from? Is that what your pastor at FBC Jax teaches you to do with those you don't like or disagree with? You should accuse them of being insane? I dare say that your one post, one who dares to name the name "Christ Jesus", does more harm for the cause of Christ and your church than anything that has been on this blog.

Get some help, and repent of your terrible words directed toward me.

Anonymous said...

You don't know his salary, none of us will ever know his salary, so lay off JW.

His wife talks. A LOT.

Anonymous said...

The 240k is true, but you forgot to mention his 500k signing bonus to lure him out of retirement and his annual 100k performance bonus! Oh, and don't forget we pay his plane tickets back and forth to his home in Memphis for He' and his wife!

I don't know anything about that but he and his wife have gone back to Memphis many times.

Anonymous said...

Hey WD,

I don't think Mac and JW make too much money. I don't thing they're wrong to accept those offers.

Signed,

A-Rod

Bro./Pastor Rod H. said...

I've got three words for Dr.Dog and all the blogging participants concerning the state of affairs at FBCJ ministry.


"WORSE AND WORSE"!!!

Anonymous said...

Change Change Change

So how do you brothers and sisters in the Lord love your new CHANGES?

Rick Warren has done a fine job of bringing to this generation many changes. He has been able to get rid of those old church members who will not compromise. He has taught preachers that what ever it takes to grow a church is OK, even if [as he does] the preacher has to S T R E T C H the truth a little. He has shown preachers that if they change the By Laws preachers can keep their jobs NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO.

So, brothers and sisters, what is $200,000 or $300,000 salary among staff members?

CHANGE IS GREAT!

ISN'T IT?

Anonymous said...

Jim Whitmire is one of the truest men of God you will ever find.
Too bad he has drank the Fbc koolaid and supports Dr Hypocrite. It only figures, I guess, if you can get the work...take it!! At least he didn't come to the church with alterior motives & hidden agendas.
CC

Straight Path said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

The light that this blog brings to anyone that reads it is an eye opener. A church should not be surprised when their financial records become public. The question is: Why do church leaders think it is NOT THE BUSINESS of the members WHO GIVE THE MONEY to know the particulars, such as salaries and expenditures of THEIR church?
They (members) are responsible to God for what they do, so must church leaders be responsible to God and the people giving the money. The sound of music has an expensive ring to it now-a-days. With all the downsizing within the business community it would not be surprising if some churches will and should have to do the same. High salaries, bonuses, and "expense accounts" are not a prerequisite for doing Gods work!!! This fallacy handed out today, that money is THE most important component in the success of a church, is just plain wrong. Money has taken the place of allowing God to work. God can provide what He ordains. But, people don't rely or WAIT on the Lord, anymore. If they want something they BUY IT. And how do they buy it? They pass the offering plate again and again. How can you teach people to have FAITH, and rely on the Lord to provide their needs if the church it's self spends money like water and by the way, is not accountable to those giving it. Just telling the people that there is a finance committee taking care of the "business", is not really acceptable. That's like someone else spending my money but not telling me how. And then telling me it's none of my business! Pitiful just plain pitiful.

Anonymous said...

You are an idiot!

Anonymous said...

I am in the FBC choir. I believe a choir member, possibly a choir officer, floated the idea of the video to Dr. Whitmire and he liked it. The idea was to illustrate a constant issue the choir faces with various things that distract our ministering. The video was done so it could be shown at the recent choir's retreat in St. Augustine. The purpose of the retreat was to introduce this year's Christmas music. The retreat was paid for by choir members and not church subsidized. The retreat is actually a lot of work as we practiced the music most of the time. It started on a Friday at 6:30 and went to Saturday noon. So, the purpose was to create a fun video that could be used in the retreat schedule to bring home some of the etiquette issues we strive to avoid. Hopefully this clears up some of the wild speculation.

Anonymous said...

Fun video??? Whats wrong with using the video to win souls for Jesus? Isn't that the reason for a church to begin with? As usual just fun and games.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon 4: 34

Would the apostles agree with your analysis that they don't make too much money?

Anonymous said...

Hopefully this clears up some of the wild speculation.

October 4, 2009 9:48 PM

Exactly what wild speculations are you referring to?

Show that video to a production company and get an estimate on the cost. Let them know the actors were free.

That is a lot of dough for 'fun'. Someone was paying for the production cost. Like they think about government, so many think stuff done for church is free.

But lets face it. It is not about one short video. It is the principle involved. I can promise you there are tons of similar things your church staffers are doing in the same vein. But since you will never see a financial breakdown, you will never know.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see how much is spent on staff retreats, conferences and travel? But I forget, you have a committee you can trust overseeing that your money is spent wisely.

Anonymous said...

So, the purpose was to create a fun video that could be used in the retreat schedule to bring home some of the etiquette issues we strive to avoid.

Yes, Choir etiquette is a huge deal in the New Testament churches. I think it is in
2nd Vanities 4

Thy Peace said...

Off Topic:

Grace and Truth to You [Pastor Wade Burleson] > Mossab Hassan Yousef, The Son of Hamas, Who Himself Has Become a Follower of Jesus Christ.

Please watch the evening service video, and at 57:20 mark, you will hear Yousef's views on accepting offering money for his speaking engagement. A very engaging and clear thinking person.

Bill said...

I find it interesting that so many honest and caring Christians come to this blog for the first time and criticize the blog.

Dog needs counseling.

Dog is obsessed.

Dog needs to mind his own business.

Dog is not glorifying God with the blog.

Dog this and Dog that.

Church, your pastor, I mean preacher, is making 6 times the average salary in the U.S.!

Ahh!
(throws hands up in disgust, walks away mumbling about First Baptist Corporation of Jacksonville.....)

Anonymous said...

2 Vanities 4: So appropriate!!! I love it. I have no quarrel with the choir itself, they do good work in general.

Anonymous said...

Wouldn't it be interesting to see how much is spent on staff retreats, conferences and travel? But I forget, you have a committee you can trust overseeing that your money is spent wisely.

October 4, 2009 11:48 PM


I always thought when I gave an offering or tithe (not debating the subject of tithing for the non-tithing group) I was giving back a portion of that which did not belong to me anyway.It was already God's, not mine.

I think there is a danger in thinking the money given to the church or the money we bring home after a week at work is ours. It is not.

But we baptists love to take ownership of things which never belonged to us in the first place. FBCJax is in God's hands, not the pastors. I would be asking God what He want to teach me through such a time as this, not what He wants to teach then next guy.

My God will straighten the things out in the church in a manner better than I could even attempt. But then, I spent too much of my life telling God how He ought to do things because I saw the picture much better than most. Oh, the freedom in letting God be God.

Thy Peace said...

I will make a tongue in cheek justification for Mac (and family) salary ...

Assumptions:

1 Giving Unit, makes about $50,000- in salary. And this Giving Unit gives a 10% tithe to the church. That would be $5,000- in yearly tithes to the local church.

FBC Jax last year budget was around $16,000,000-.

Mac and family, makes around $500,000- (mind you this is a conservative estimate).

How many Giving Units does it take to fulfill FBC Jax burdget?

Answer: 3,200-

For each Giving Unit, how much of that money goes to fund Mac and his family?

Answer: $156.25- (per year per Giving Unit)
-----------------------------------
Let us look at a church that has only 100 Giving Units.

Budget for that church: $500,000-

Pastor Salary: $50,000-

For each Giving Unit, how much of that money goes to fund Pastor?

Answer: $500- (per year per Giving Unit)
-----------------------------------

There you go, FBC Jax. Clearly your pastor is being under paid per year per Giving Unit.
-----------------------------------
Maybe one needs to increase the Giving Units from 3200 to 8000.

This is purely hypothetical, but assuming the same ratios hold, then FBC Jax should increase or pay more for Mac and family this new amount:

$1,250,000-

I rest my case. [Please forgive me, if I misplaced any decimal points. It's is still early in the morning and I have not had my coffee yet :) ]

Anonymous said...

"I think there is a danger in thinking the money given to the church or the money we bring home after a week at work is ours. It is not."

Nice try. But how do you get around the fact that YOU are the steward of it?

"But we baptists love to take ownership of things which never belonged to us in the first place. FBCJax is in God's hands, not the pastors. I would be asking God what He want to teach me through such a time as this, not what He wants to teach then next guy."

He TOLD YOU in the scripture. You are just ignoring it or do not know it. Crack open that dusty Bible of yours and forget the Lifeway and Topical studies that teach you NOTHING. For once in your life pray and study on your own.

"My God will straighten the things out in the church in a manner better than I could even attempt. But then, I spent too much of my life telling God how He ought to do things because I saw the picture much better than most. Oh, the freedom in letting God be God."

He left you instructions in the Epistles. According to you, we should ignore the Epistles since God will handle everything. I guess you think they should not have been written since they are largely instructions to the churches on WHAT TO DO in the Body of Christ.

You act is if God never works through people to deal with problems. If that is truth then why did Paul advise the Corin church in 1 Corin on what THEY should do? Why didn't he tell them to wait and let God handle it?

Why not let God be God and forget witnessing?

Are all people at FBCJax this ignorant of the Word?

Anonymous said...

I see nothing wrong with a video of this sort. The money that is already comitted to the media budget is going to be spent whether that media staff sits and does nothing or they do this kind of video.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"So, the purpose was to create a fun video that could be used in the retreat schedule to bring home some of the etiquette issues we strive to avoid."

So let me get this straight. Gum-chewing, people wearing hubcaps as earrings, setting their (ugly) purses on the railing, texting on their cell phones while singing, reading (Joel Osteen's book), and throwing beach balls around the choir loft are "etiquette issues" with the choir? How old are you people anyway?

Please, just be honest and say it was for entertainment purposes and leave it at that.

Big Tex said...

"I think there is a danger in thinking the money given to the church or the money we bring home after a week at work is ours. It is not."

Nice try. But how do you get around the fact that YOU are the steward of it?

- Well in context to what I responded too, the person said:

Wouldn't it be interesting to see how much is spent on staff retreats, conferences and travel? But I forget, you have a committee you can trust overseeing that your money is spent wisely.

- Now if you have a problem take it up with whoever thinks God's money is theirs. No mention in the post I responded to about being stewards. Nice attempt to deflect the subject though but the attempt failed.
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"But we baptists love to take ownership of things which never belonged to us in the first place. FBCJax is in God's hands, not the pastors. I would be asking God what He want to teach me through such a time as this, not what He wants to teach then next guy."

He TOLD YOU in the scripture. You are just ignoring it or do not know it. Crack open that dusty Bible of yours and forget the Lifeway and Topical studies that teach you NOTHING. For once in your life pray and study on your own.

- Told me what? Don't worry about my bible being dusty, it is well worn and filled with personal notes from study. And that is from my greek bible, not your NIV. But I ask again... What did He TELL me?
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"My God will straighten the things out in the church in a manner better than I could even attempt. But then, I spent too much of my life telling God how He ought to do things because I saw the picture much better than most. Oh, the freedom in letting God be God."

He left you instructions in the Epistles. According to you, we should ignore the Epistles since God will handle everything. I guess you think they should not have been written since they are largely instructions to the churches on WHAT TO DO in the Body of Christ.

- No one on this end of the keyboard is ignoring the epistles. but then again you make some mighty bold accusations and never once give scripture to support your position.

Let me share with you a vital piece of scripture from a small epistle written to the pastor on the isle of Crete.

Titus 3:9-11
[9] But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
[10] A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
[11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


Look specifically at verse 10. How many times are you going to rebuke Mac? The passage says twice. Then reject. I'll let you do some study to learn something about the way to handle problems such as listed by many on this blog.

You act is if God never works through people to deal with problems. If that is truth then why did Paul advise the Corin church in 1 Corin on what THEY should do? Why didn't he tell them to wait and let God handle it?

No one on this blog anti Mac is handling the problem all they are doing is talking about it among those who "feel" the way they do. They are tickling each others ears and scratching each others backs. No one is sharpening iron here.

Why not let God be God and forget witnessing?

If this is really important to you, share with us the last person you personally led to Jesus or the last time you knocked on a strangers door and offered then eternal hope?

Are all people at FBCJax this ignorant of the Word?

This is typical of your line of thinking, are you sure I am a member of FBCJAX?

But simple statements not backed up except by bravado (and you do that well through a keyboard) does not hold water.

Of course I simple wanted to post a comment stating the fact that God owns everything and is still sovereign.

This ignorant poster would love to hear your brilliant response (with scripture, not just accusations).

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:51. Well said. I believe you will find that most congregations know very little bible doctrine. This is mainly due to pastors telling stories from other books, rather than the BOOK. When they go home they say to each other (a lot of them) wasn't that a good sermon, isn't he so intelligent. I learned about something that happened long ago, that I had not read in my history lessons at school. Or another one will say, good sermon, however what was the main point again? As long as they can laugh a little and forget their troubles for 20-30 minutes the "church goers" believe they have worshipped. And if they tithe then they are set for another week of blessings. Disgraceful and unbibilical are most sermonnets coming out of these buildings in our day and age. No wonder God wants to spit them out and Jesus stands on the outside knocking...He certainly isn't inside and they do not desire Him to be inside as that would put an end to their way of life. Some will get this and others never will!!!! This is no parable its the fact.

Anonymous said...

This ignorant poster would love to hear your brilliant response (with scripture, not just accusations).

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This is my first time posting on this blog, but that Titus quote is way out there. Titus IS a pastor, and the FIRST section of the letter tells us how pastors and elders are to be considered:

"For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not t be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined."

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This blog speaks from the hearts of many of us who see too much greed among these kinds of pastors today - and I mean that from the perspective that Dr. Brunson makes 300k a year, because that's what I've been led to believe.

I don't think it's wrong for a pastor - especially one with a high level of education - to be paid on an equivalent level with others. I aspire to ministry, and I doubt I'll make much and spend a long time paying back loans, but if I made the average I don't think anyone could say that was wrong.

But for 300k a year...something like 6x the average...you could pay 5 other preachers! You could plant churches, provide evangelism tools and free training to members!

I'd like to believe that - if and when I become a minister - I can unashamedly post both the church financial records and my personal ones. I won't say its wrong for a pastor to make decent money, or have fancy things - I just think that such extreme amounts are wrong.

I lost my job at Merrill Lynch months back due to the economy (I only made $13 an hour.) and went on unemployment when I couldn't find work. I felt a lot of personal shame about not being able to find work for some time, and the cut in finances was very burdensome...but I still made sure I got my 10% to my church.

There's no way I'd continue to attend FBC Jax under such circumstances.

Jon L. Estes said...

Anon 9:13, The third chapter in Titus is directed to the Christians at large in how to live in a pagan society. Chapter one does deal with the leaders in the church and chapter 2 deals with the members of the church. The letter, as a whole is sharing the how to's for the life of Christian leaders, church members and Christians at large.

I think you will do well in ministry, you have a heart for the things of God (or so it seems from your words).

I'll never make what Mac makes nor do I think about such things. To many other things to be dealing with other than income. I've made little and presently make a good income in ministry but I know it can be taken away in the blink of an eye. I don't even get caught up in the amount others make because it becomes depressing. My God will take care of me and if a pastor is being paid to much that is between him, the church and God. Of the three, One will have the final say.

Anonymous said...

To Oct.9...9:13 ASPIRING PASTOR:

It seems that you may actually be called to be a pastor. You exhibit a true pastors heart in the few words written here. It could be that the Lord may actually be able to use you for HIS glory. You certainly present a spiritual challenge to the (money makers) pastors claiming to be what it doesn't appear they are. God bless you in your endeavors.

Hosea 4:6 said...

Hi - It is sad that churches have become so engrossed in entertainment and pastors with high paying salaries. Many of them do not even realize they are being used by Satan as part of an agenda. Hosea 4:6 is clear that God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge Here are some great sermon's I thought you might enjoy and post for others.

Disturbing 501C3 Corporate Church Report:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakerWithinSource=&subsetCat=&subsetItem=&mediatype=&includekeywords=&keyword=Scott^A.^Johnson&keyworddesc=Scott+A.+Johnson&currsection=sermonsspeaker&AudioOnly=false&SpeakerOnly=true&keywordwithin=501&x=30&y=16

The Church Whoring Around:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakerWithinSource=&subsetCat=&subsetItem=&mediatype=&includekeywords=&keyword=Pastor^Michael^Slattery&keyworddesc=Pastor+Michael+Slattery&currsection=sermonsspeaker&AudioOnly=false&SpeakerOnly=true&keywordwithin=church+whoring&x=16&y=16

New Age Bible Versions:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=42385501735388990&hl=en#

John Wylie said...

First of all, I completely saw how God was glorified in the video. The messsage is that Dr. Whitmire and all of us need to trust in God and receive peace from Him even in the most trying circumstances. Second of all, just an observation, could it be that you are so critical of FBC Jax that you failed to see the point? My goodness, you're having a fit over a four minute video.